02:10
Megan Sprinkle
You're kind of a farm girl right?
Laurie Dohmen
Yep. When we moved to Kentucky when I was three and a half, my mother said, oh, we're in Kentucky, we need to learn to ride horses. And I think to this day, she still regrets it. She's a New York City girl, and I am completely a Kentucky farm.
Megan Sprinkle
Well, so I actually rode horses when I was little, too. And there's just something special about a girl and her horse. But it sounds like you took it to the extreme, because you really did latch on to horses. It sounded like kind of your calling from a very young age. Is that true? When did you know you wanted to get into vet med?
Laurie Dohmen
Yes. It was always horses, and my mother is actually a nurse practitioner, so medicine kind of came from there, and I was eventing, really competitively, and I did actually have to make a choice to pull back on my writing so that I could do the academics required to go to veterinary school.
Megan Sprinkle
I did that, too. That is so funny. Yeah. I remember in high school, the academics became the big focus to try to get to vet school, because everybody said it's really hard. Yeah. Well, I thought the other interesting things I said you were a farm girl again, back to when you were a young age. You got to hang around the barns, and you were working in barns, and I didn't even know that you worked with racetracks. Like, you rescued a horse from the racetrack.
03:27
Laurie Dohmen
Well, I went to college to Mount Holyoke College, which has a riding program. That's one of the best riding programs in the country. And that's part of why I went there, was to be able to still do the academics and yet get back to horses and all of that. And by the time I graduated my undergrad, I had adopted a horse from the school, or she adopted me, to be more fair, I have to tell you this story. She would knicker when my car pulled in the parking lot. She was the last stall next to the parking lot. She would be in other lesson programs, and she would stop dead and stare at me if she saw me anywhere. She once laid down with a different rider on her and just was like, I'm not going. You will not ride me.
04:10
Laurie Dohmen
So she picked me. I didn't pick her, and I had her until she passed away a few years. So when I came down back to Penn for vet school, I was absolutely looking for a place for my horses, and I found a place that I was really happy with. And then the woman who was taking care of the barn moved to Delaware, and I moved my horses with her, and she merged with a racetrack guy, and they were know, this is great experience for you. So I went to the racetrack and I worked, and I got to shadow a vet there and exercise horses for money on the racetrack. And in the process, in my third year of vet school, there was this horse that was just, like, stunning. I mean, just stunning. And I was in love with her.
05:03
Laurie Dohmen
And one day her rider said to me, he's about to send her to slaughter. Her knee is broken. And I stood in that man's barn until he gave her to me. And then I stood in that man's barn again until he gave me the papers for her. So she was legally mine. And I took the x rays too. I was in third year large animal intensive. Penn does it where you do a quarter that's just intensive, large animal intensive, small animal and they're optional, or you can go early into rotations. But I was in large animal intensive, and I walked up to the lecturer that day, one of the surgeons, I said, can you fix this? He said yes. And I trailed her straight to surgery and had her knee scoped.
Megan Sprinkle
What a cool story. It sounded like you had some really good mentors going through vet school when it came to equine and large animal. Is that true as well?
Laurie Dohmen
Yes. Dr. Ross was the one who michael Ross did the surgery on my horse. And because she needed further joint injections, adequan and such, he gave me privileges and the bandaging and all that. He knew I knew how to do it for my own horse. So when I was in rotations, I did a lot with him anyway because I thought he was excellent, which he is, and he let me do things that he didn't let other students do because he knew I had the experience and the knowledge to do it, having done it first on my own horse. So that was a really nice bonus of it all.
Megan Sprinkle
The other thing that I heard, and I wanted to bring this up because one, when someone asked me, how was your vet school experience? I'm very honest and say it was probably one of the hardest four years of my life. And I think some people's knee jerk reaction is like, oh, it was great.
Laurie Dohmen
Okay.
06:52
Megan Sprinkle
I know, right? It's like, which school do you know? But you had a very unique experience on the small animal side that I wanted to kind of ask you a little bit more about. And it wasn't the best experience, but I think it shows a lot about you and kind of being able to interpret the situation and kind of say what felt right to you. And I don't know if that kind of helped your next steps at all, but there was a rotation, I think you said it was internal medicine where you had to talk to a client and you said that renal disease is not curative. And they got upset with that comment. So you can elaborate if you want to tell more to that story.
Megan Sprinkle
But I'm just kind of curious what that did to you and if that impacted you at all and your decisions kind of going forward.
Laurie Dohmen
So as wonderful as I felt, my experience at New Bolton was not just because of Dr. Ross, but I felt that it was warm and nurturing and really, I learned a ton was as awful as I felt UPenn's small animal hospital was from start to finish. I felt the classes were unsupportive, I mean, especially as a female. By the time I was in vet school, it was 75% women, and yet it was still sexist, and there were issues with that. And then we got into rotations. We'd never been taught to do a physical examination. Like, I'd never palpated animal, and I was just turned loose and expected to do this. And then I hit internal medicine and I told a client that renal failure was very treatable and we could keep his cat alive for a very long time, but it was not curable.
08:26
Laurie Dohmen
And they pulled me into the back, never let me interact with another client, and gave me a C in the rotation. They couldn't fail me because I think they realized then they would have had legal ramifications of me telling the truth, but they did the next best thing they could do everything. At Penn. We fix everything. That's kind of the motto, and that's just not factually accurate. But I'd also like to say that I think kidney failure is seminal for me in other ways. When we learned it in lectures and we learned that cats auto digest their kidneys, they're always digesting protein, my first logical thought was that, well, then cats should always be eating protein. And then we walk out and Hills was there providing food, and the first ingredient in their kidney failure diet was corn.
Laurie Dohmen
And I said, you just taught me to feed protein, that they need protein to prevent this and treat this. And really, I felt from that moment that pet foods were just too lazy to balance the phosphorus and they lower the protein to lower the phosphorus instead of finding a way to give protein, not phosphorus. So I think that might have been my first push to go holistic, even though I didn't know that at the time. But it's something I always refer back to now and still stand by that from the door. It didn't all make sense to me the way it was taught to us at Penn.
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah, well, and did you have any type of my guess is no holistic or herbal or anything when you went into or going through vet school at all.
Laurie Dohmen
So one of my friends now is a doctor named Dr. Judith Schumacher. And at Newbolton, she was known as the quack down the road, and everybody made fun of her, so that was my only experience. And she knows know, shane and I have talked about know, we just laugh about it now, but yes, that was my only experience in veterinary. I came from very us. Biopharmaceutical medicine, so I don't know. But something was always in me that was not the path for me.
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah, well, so when did you start to kind of gain interest in maybe finding other ways of treatment options? Or did that come from your personal life? Were you interested in picking certain foods for you and your family? How did that kind of transition into your work?
10:00
Laurie Dohmen
So, again, I think the whole biopharmaceutical thing never really felt comfortable for me. I always used fewer vaccines, less medicine, tried to find ways to go around it. I would never use a new pharmaceutical on the market unless it had been on at least five years, which in some cases probably saved a lot of my animals lives. Some of the products ended up to be good, but you know how many things come on the market and they pulled off very quickly. So I was never comfortable with that. And my best friend from vet school, Dr. Carol Falk, did an internship and then immediately went holistic. She went through the Qi University and did all the Chinese and kept know, laurie, you should do this.
Laurie Dohmen
And when my husband and I started having know, I was already, like I said, judicious in vaccines and everything for animals. So we really researched vaccines. I made my own baby food, et cetera. And I said to him, I always say my practice is an extension of my family, and if it is, then I need to treat it accordingly. And with a three year old and a one year old, which my husband may still never forgive me for, I went back and retrained from top to bottom. And I'm glad I did. And it's not that I don't use pharmaceuticals. I'm very integrative. It's just that now I have a lot more alternatives and a lot more tools in my toolbox as a lot of holistic people like to say, so I have a lot more options.
11:29
Megan Sprinkle
Hey, I think options are fantastic because you never know what the client is going to be interested in or I think that's the worst thing you want to get to as well. It's either this really expensive surgery or nothing. So having options, I think, is important. The other thing that I thought was neat was you went right into a mobile practice after vet school as so what kind of interests you in that type of practicing?
Laurie Dohmen
So I planned to be straight Equine, and then I moved down here to Delaware, which is farm country, and everybody know a backyard farm because I wasn't looking to do racetrack medicine, even though I had some experience in it. I had just enough experience to know that it wasn't where my career was going. So it's all backyard pet animals, and then they'd be like, well, can't you just look at my dog or can't you take care of my barn cat vaccinate, my barn cats? And so it went from an equine practice to a mixed animal house call practice pretty quickly. And I found what I really liked doing were companion animals. So my practice name is companion animal Practice.
12:34
Laurie Dohmen
And it didn't really matter species, I didn't want to do working animals, I didn't want to do food animals, I wanted to do people's companions. And so then it became less about species and more and I think that goes to the holistic too. And being in people's environment gives you a better examination because you see so much more behavioral and lifestyle and what they're really eating and et cetera. You get a bigger picture when you're in their house and really you see them in their environment, so you see them as they are, not the scared or angry or whatever animal that comes into a clinic. I mean, I did go on and have a clinic, but I think I prefer house call medicine when I have the choice.
Megan Sprinkle
And your relationship with the client, I would imagine, is also kind of special, because when you have someone come into your home, there's some vulnerability to that. And so, I don't know, did you find kind of like the relationship with clients was a little special too?
13:37
Laurie Dohmen
Yes. It's funny, they invite you in like you're a guest. Do you want anything to eat? Do you want to drink? And it's like, no, I'm here to warp. It's almost like you have to have more of a boundary while also being more personal. So it was a fine line, and sometimes it works and sometimes it just gets awkward, and sometimes you end up with friends because you've been in their space so much, eventually it evolves to where they really become your friends, so it can run the gambit. But overall, I think it's a good thing. But I do think it takes a personality that's prepared to have boundaries, because those boundaries are much more blurred when you're in somebody's house than when you're in a room.
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah, because when you walk into somebody else's hospital space, there's like that door, that threshold that you cross that this is not my area, so yeah, that makes sense. So pros and cons, good perspective. The other thing I wanted to ask too, know you go to Delaware for your horses and your husband is not in any type of veterinary. How did how did you two meet? I was just curious to ask that question.
14:48
Laurie Dohmen
No, this actually is great. So I was making house calls and I was driving around listening to the radio, and he was the personality on the radio, and I liked what he had to say. And I always say, I still do. We've been married 22 years and 23 years, something like that, and I still like what he has to say.
Megan Sprinkle
Did you call in and say, hey.
Laurie Dohmen
One of his coworkers was my client. And I went and I was asking, and I was trying to be all cool and ask about all the people on the radio, but the wife was smarter than that. And long story short, she hooked us up, and we've been together ever since.
Megan Sprinkle
I love that too. You never know, your client may be able to set you up. Well, going back to the integrative approach, you told this to me that coming out of vet school and probably right after your small animal rotations, you're probably, I am never going back to school. I'm done with this. But you just kind of had to find what you wanted to study, and it sounds like you're a huge learner. So you start going back to school or doing classes and studying on integrative approaches and the herbal medicine, everything. But there wasn't a lot in veterinary, so you were going through human aspects. So I'm really curious to hear more about that experience being a veterinarian, going through things that were supposed to be targeted for people. And how did you learn to translate that to where you wanted to practice?
Megan Sprinkle
I mean, you can always take that for yourself personally back to your family, but when it came to translating it back into the different species you work with, how was that process?
16:36
Laurie Dohmen
So one thing I will say kudos to Penn for is they taught veterinary medicine very much, including humans as another species. So I think we learned a decent amount of human medicine. I'm not talking about diseases and stuff like that, but like anatomy and physiology. I think humans were not 100% included, but very often used for comparison. So I think I had a good understanding of how just like we learned the differences between a cat and a dog. I think I had a little more translational ability there. And I did take IVIS, which was strictly veterinary for my acupuncture, just by the way. But I think that also helped because you had to then translate Chinese medicine, and the Chinese medicine is non species specific. So I think all these things put together made it easier for me to see connections.
Laurie Dohmen
And I think I started on more the physiology level. Like during my herbal masters, I did an herbal apprenticeship first with Rosemary Gladstar, and then I went on and got my master's. I sat in on a course about sports nutrition, and I could see herbs for the physiology of the actual muscles, and muscles are muscles. And I had actually written in vet school a paper on fast twitch and slow twitch muscle and all of that fit into it. So I think it started translating there and then building it up into the whole know, became easier and easier.
18:15
Laurie Dohmen
Yeah, but you and I talked when we spoke before about Susan Wynn, who we both know, and I think I told you this story, but when I was trying to figure out how to translate all this into veterinary, I met her at Holistic conference, and, you know, where do you learn to do herbs for animals? She said, oh, you don't. You just learn human, and you just translate it yourself. And that was the moment I knew I was going to write a course, because there needs to be a course. It's not that easy for everyone to translate. People's brains are different. People do things differently, and there needs to be a hands on veterinary course. And it was then that I knew I was going to write it someday in the future.
Megan Sprinkle
And you're able to bring the different types of practicing medicine together as well that I think could make it more approachable for a larger audience. Because when I was looking at all the different people that you studied under, to be honest, I don't recognize any of know. They're probably huge celebrities in certain know, just like know, I go to a conference, and I took my husband to VMX last year, and we're in the Expo Hall and you know, Dr. Chrisman walk by and I'm like, that's a really famous veterinarian. And my husband's like, all right, so for someone who isn't as knowledgeable in that area, we don't understand how big that is. But you're able to kind of marry these two.
19:42
Megan Sprinkle
And I think you've said that you get asked to speak at a lot of conferences because you know how to balance all of this information and make it achievable or digestible for multiple audiences, which I really appreciate as curious. Although Rosemary sounds very interesting, the way you described her as just being such a lovely human being and just had this presence that you were happy to be in. Her presence, I thought was really neat. Were you one of her first veterinary individuals that she had as a student?
Laurie Dohmen
Actually, I was her second. So, again, when my children were young, I was reading more holistic magazines, and there was this one called Body and Soul, which has since been unfortunately discontinued because it was a lovely magazine. And they did a story about her. I mean, she is the godmother of herbalism in the USA. So herb companies are all named for her. Schools are named for her. She's definitely our fairy godmother, and I'm lucky to have her as a mentor and a friend. But the expose talked about her apprenticeship and that it was a home study and then weekends, and they mentioned a vet who had taken it, and I was like and I tried to call the vet.
21:01
Laurie Dohmen
It winds up he's her personal vet in the neighborhood, and he was on some extended trip and out of the country for, like, three months or something. So I never spoke with him, but I was like, what the heck? It wasn't very expensive. And I started the home study, and I was like, this woman's a little quirky. I'll go to the apprenticeship. I've paid for it, and if I hate it, I just won't go back for all the weekends. And it was instant love with her, with the course, with the material. The things that sound quirky on paper are what make her so beautiful as a human being. And it was just an amazing experience, and I'm really glad I did it, because she's what is called a folk herbalist.
Laurie Dohmen
So she does it from a very hands on, in your kitchen kind of aspect. Even though she probably knows more medicinal systems than me, she certainly knows traditional Chinese medicine. She knows ayurveda she knows tons more Native American than I do. Her grandmother was Armenian, so that was her background. She's incredibly educated, but she comes across as just doing it in her kitchen. And so then when I was thinking about getting my master's, I actually called her up, and I said, Should I do this? And she said yes. And then she was right, because it gave me the science side of it, which is very important for us as doctors, and especially, like you said, talking to people. That's the language we learned.
22:37
Laurie Dohmen
So speaking that language is always very useful, but I still teach the practical aspects from the folk way, which I think is better when you're working with the herbs. And so I'm able, like you said, to marry. I think part of why I can marry things is because I learned two different ways of doing herbs. I learned a very didactic scientific way, and I learned a very down-home folk way. And so putting those together already had me putting different schools of thought together, and I'm passionate about both. And just a funny aside story. So I was at a conference since I've spoken to you last, and a vet came up to me, and he's like, I'm really interested in this. I'm really interested, but is there research? And I was sitting in front of my computer, and I said, Sit down.
Laurie Dohmen
I said pick an herb. And he picked one that I had talked about in the lectures I gave, and I typed it into PubMed, and there were, like, 253 references, and he just went like this, just like that. He's like, okay, I'm sold. Like, yes, there is research. They take the folk information and then study it and show the science behind it, which I think is kind of cool that basically, they're proving what we all already know about the plants.
24:01
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah. Well, I am fascinated by understanding how much research there really is, and a lot of these have been used for much longer than a lot of our traditional medicines have been used. So I guess what I'm hearing some of my colleagues say in the back of my head is, but have they been studied in the species that we work with? I guess when you're looking at specie level and some of this may go back to understanding, studying the human aspect and knowing how to translate it. That probably helps a lot. But when it comes to research in, say, cats or dogs, how comfortable do you feel there that we have the data that we need?
Laurie Dohmen
Very comfortable. Very comfortable for two reasons. One is there is a decent amount of research out there. But two is, like you said, these medicines have been used for thousands upon thousands of years, and the cultures that have used them, including all of our cultures, use them not only in humans, but in their animals. So the stories, the history is there and the information where it can't be used in a certain species, where it's toxic, where the dosage is different, is already out there because of evidence based medicine. And as vets, we don't realize how much evidence based medicine we do. And this is something I lecture about. I don't know if you remember, but ten or 15 years ago, maybe 20 by now, the FDA tried to say that we could only use drugs on label for species that they were labeled for.
25:29
Laurie Dohmen
And Big Pharma came out and said, no, because we're not prepared to label euthanasia solution for every species that is out there. And so the FDA came back with, if you can find three vets that use it the same way you do, you are in compliance with the law. And that's where the law stands today for us as veterinarians. So every time we give a rabies shot to something that isn't a dog, a cat or a ferret because that's all that's on Imrab, we are comfortable doing that knowing, evidentiarily, if that's a word. There are two other vets doing it the same way. In fact, there's thousands of vets giving horses Imrab, right? But the law says we only have to find three vets doing it the same way.
Laurie Dohmen
So in that if we look at the history of the herbs, there's way more than three people who have used them in their animals, and the historical evidence is there, and there's a lot of research into how traditions are using it. And then they take that research and start to study it in whatever species they're studying it in. So, yes, it's there.
26:40
Megan Sprinkle
listening to all the things that are in the course that you have created, which also it's hands on. It's an experience. Actually, now that you talked a little bit about rosemary structure, it sounds a little bit like that too, that you've got the weekends and that's very hands on. And you talked about one of the things that got you into holistic practicing was your belief of your work was an extension of your personal values. It was part of your family, which was how you got into this, and part of the sessions. When I. Was hearing all the different courses, which sounds like so much fun. You had also well being sessions healthcare.
Megan Sprinkle
Yes, which I loved that was part of the whole experience, as I would you like to speak a little bit about that and why you have that also incorporated into your courses?
27:49
Laurie Dohmen
I actually can't take credit for that. I co wrote the course with dr. Chris august, who comes from Waldorf schools, and she also has a graduate diploma in veterinary herbalism online. She knows the herbs as well as I do. And the Waldorf experience kind of gave her the hands on because they did a lot of stuff with herbalism and with plants in that. So she came at it differently, but similarly in a strange way. But she's always been about self care. She is a hospice certified vet. She actually wrote part of the hospice course in the hospice text. And I think that hospice is kind of ahead of the rest of us on looking at that. I think if you do hospice and end of life, you need to really take care of yourself. But excuse me, I'm very linear.
Laurie Dohmen
So my course would have been a lot more rigid and more straightforward. And she really brought in herbalism would have still been folk, but she really brought in the extras and the beauty and the softening of it. And some of that is self care. And as we look at not one more vet and all these kinds of things and we see how important it is to take care of ourselves, that part of the course has gained importance for me. And I've had students who've said, I only signed up for this because it had the self care part. And also where we know I was really tied to teaching in the outer banks of north Carolina. And the first time I brought Chris down, it was right after hurricane.
29:23
Laurie Dohmen
And I mean, the place was just a disaster, but it was when she could come and when we had planned and even seeing it at its worst, she was like, this is perfect. This is part of self care. And being there really is. We do gratefulness in the morning, every morning. What are you grateful for today? And people are like, I can't think of anything new. I too am grateful for walking on the beach this morning. I too am grateful for seeing the sunrise over the ocean. And I just had a student recently who's taking a few of my classes. And she called me up on a Monday and class started on a Friday at standalone class. And she said, do you still have room? I just need a weekend at the beach. So the beach is part of the self care.
Laurie Dohmen
We do have self care in it, and part of it is too. We are overworked. We are stretched thin as veterinarians. It's part of our personality. It's part of what attracts us. So, like, in our food self care, I teach making foods simply that are healthy and more nourishing and less expensive and stupid things like making your own almond milk. And it's not stupid if you've never done it, and you don't know how easy it is to make your own peanut butter and your own almond milk and whatever. So teaching some of these simple skills goes a long way for people in their self care.
30:47
Laurie Dohmen
And we do breathing exercises, and had somebody else who made house calls, and he said whenever he'd get tired, he'd get out on the side of the road and do breathing, and we do stretch breaks, and he'd do some of the exercises. He'd morph them into what worked for him, and he would just stop on the side of the road and perk himself up doing breathing and exercises. And, you know, it makes him safer while he's driving around. That makes my heart happy.
32:53
Megan Sprinkle
I love hearing that because you sounded very busy, and one of the things that you mentioned that you were so excited you were able to do is to be with your kids at their events. I think it's your younger son who is the swimmer.
Laurie Dohmen
Older.
Megan Sprinkle
My older son. Okay, I got him mixed up. Your older son was the swimmer, and you would bring laptops to the swim meets and things like that. What does that mean to you now that you've kind of gotten into this part of your career? Are you finding that right balance for you? I hate that word, balance. I'm sorry. You know what I mean? That right amount of living out your values. I will say that, yes.
Laurie Dohmen
I really feel like I have I don't think my kids are far enough away from it yet to have an opinion of if it worked for them. But when I did close my because by then, I had a brick and mortar practice, so it was evenings and weekends and all the times that they needed me around. And when I did close that, I said to them, look, I will be totally available. When I'm home. I'm going to be not home quite as much, but when I'm home, I'm all yours. And so, yes, writing lecture, reading research articles from PubMed. I can do that at the side of a pool. And my younger son has taken up tennis. I can do that at the side of a tennis court.
34:15
Laurie Dohmen
And so I've spent a lot of my time writing lecture, dragging around bags of research articles and books and big laptop and doing it wherever they are and being able to be where they need me. And I've also set up my courses to be kind of on an academic calendar. And it also works in the Outer Banks. I teach September through November, and then I teach President's Day through the end of April and the Outer Banks in the summer. It's expensive it's crowded. It's not a good time to be down there. And in the winter, from Thanksgiving until President's Day, everything shuts down. That's when the locals take their vacations and things like that. So it's not a great time to be down there. So between that schedule and kids schedule, it works.
Laurie Dohmen
So, like, I came home a week before Thanksgiving and I was able to have Thanksgiving and see my college son and go to one of his swim meets and just be able to be really present with him and enjoy time with him. It's been really a good schedule. I feel like.
35:28
Megan Sprinkle
And again, I mentioned that you do lots of talks where you're presenting to lots of different audiences, but especially in the veterinary community. One other thing that if you're comfortable sharing, because I'm excited to be in a time where I think there are so many different possibilities to live out, different careers that feed your values, feed your interest. You with this. Veterinary background. You could go and do whatever, but sometimes it can be hard to do things that are nontraditional, that are outside of the box. That's why I have this podcast is talking about it is okay, you think outside that box, but because it can be hard to do things that people don't quite understand because you don't fit their definition of what's in their head. Going into integrative medicine, it's not the streamline.
Megan Sprinkle
So have you experienced those times when people just didn't understand? And how did you deal with that so that we can kind of share that with people who might also want to try something that's a little bit different.
Laurie Dohmen
I think you have to have a thick skin and I think you have to be centered in who you are and not let other people determine your value and all of that. I mean, I think that's just the bottom line. But I will say this, when I started and I would go to traditional biopharmaceutical veterinary continuing ed conferences, people would walk by and laugh at me like blatantly. And it's funny you say this because I said to one of my good friends that I go to conferences with. This last one I went to, I think is the first time I've ever gone to this specific series of conferences and not been laughed at all by anybody. I think the tide is really turning and somebody has to make that tide turn. And it's not just me.
37:15
Laurie Dohmen
I mean, there are lots of other fabulous veterinary herbalists. I am not alone in this venture. And I think that helps too, when you go back to year three. As I tell my students, I can name way more than three herbal vets that are using gym NEMA for diabetes, for example. And not just my students, people who were using it way even before me. I have a set of mentors in the veterinary world too. So I think having that community helps, but I think just you have to know that you're doing something important and somebody has to lead in these things or things don't change without leaders. So I'm comfortable being part of the forefront of that.
Megan Sprinkle
Thank you for that. No, that was beautifully said.
Laurie Dohmen
Thank you.
Megan Sprinkle
Also, just kind of before we go into our final questions, is there anything else that you have on your harder minds when it comes to just the veterinary community in general? We've talked a little bit about mental health, but anything you're either excited about for veterinary medicine or something maybe that you just want to share kind of words of wisdom to colleagues?
38:23
Laurie Dohmen
I do want to say to colleagues that I get a lot of people who comment that their clients are using herbal supplements. And I also hear the traditional thing you hear from people who aren't interested in herbs is either that they don't work or that they're toxic. Well, first of all, nothing cannot work and be toxic at the same time. It's either having an effect or it's not. And one of the things that I think is really important is herbs are medicine. In fact, 75% of our top 150 biopharmaceuticals are derived from plants. The difference is a biopharmaceutical is one phytochemical and the plant has multiple. But we're still focused on that same primary constituent, primary chemical. So it's really not that different. People think it's something completely different, but it's really the start of pharmaceutical medicine unquestionably. So I think that's really important.
39:20
Laurie Dohmen
we get sued for everything, right? The kid gets roundworms because they decline dewormer and it's our fault. And in the same way, there are contraindications and drug herb interactions because herbs are medicine and things like that. And I'm concerned that our colleagues are going to get sued for not knowing enough about herbs. And I'm not saying they need to take a class on the level of mine if they're not looking to practice herbal medicine, but I think that vets need to wake up and figure out what these herbs are doing and figure out what effects they're having when they're prescribing medicines before terrible things happen.
Megan Sprinkle
So the inner nutritionist always comes up in me. It says, this is why it's so important to get a really good diet history, including all supplements and everything. And then once you have that, then you at least know where you're starting from. Are there some quick references? If they're in the middle of something, a client comes in, they're on an herb, they have no idea what this means. Is there a reference that in clinic they can refer to?
40:29
Laurie Dohmen
So there's one book out. I'm actually in the process of writing a book because it's a little outdated and the authors have chosen not to update it. But it's a really great text and it's called Veterinary Herbal Medicine by Barbara Fuger and Susan Nguyen and it has a whole section of each herb, and in that, it has a safety section. So if you have nothing else, have that on your shelf, look up the herb, just read the safety, and you'll know a lot. But the other thing that happens is, where are they getting their herbs from? We teach quality control, and that's huge because herbs are dietary supplements, so everybody can sell them and everything's not quality. And one thing that the veterinary industry has is called NASC, and it is really the oversight of all veterinary supplements.
Laurie Dohmen
And if it has that label, then you know it's a good quality product. And if it doesn't, well, then I will not have any comment about it, because unless I'm personally familiar with the company, and I have herbal colleagues who are like, well, I have to research every company for everything my client brings in. No, you don't. Any more than you have to research the clavamox they're getting from Know. That's not clavamox, right? I mean, I sell the herbs I sell because I know they're good, they're effective, they're what they say they are. Et know, it is not my job to research what you were getting off Amazon. And I think we need to know the good companies and what's quality and work with that.
42:08
Laurie Dohmen
And one company that's really excellent, that has a whole veterinary department is called herbalist and alchemist, and they have wholesale accounts and all of that, and they support you and teach you not the medicine of it, but they help you in getting started in an herbal practice.
Megan Sprinkle
In terms of the product, these are great resources. Well, thank you so much. I just have a last final few questions for you. The first one can be a zinger. Is there anything that people get wrong about you?
Laurie Dohmen
Probably. I think people think that I'm not fun, and I think once you get to know me, I like to have fun.
Megan Sprinkle
Well, maybe that can help with the second question. The second question is, do you have a hidden skill or interest?
Laurie Dohmen
My whole life revolves around it's kind of so all encompassing. I have gardens. I love to cook. I love to take care of my animals. I have the horses and the goats. So I feel like everything I enjoy in life kind of revolves around that kind of farm, steady homesteady kind of thing.
43:16
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah. Is there anything that is on your bucket list that you would like to do?
43:22
Laurie Dohmen
Travel. Travel is definitely always on my bucket list, so, yes.
Megan Sprinkle
Any particular place you have towards the tap?
43:29
Laurie Dohmen
Probably. There's so many places I want to go. I will say traveled. I've done two herbal trips in Greece and been to Greece three times, including with Dr. Carol Falk. We went for three weeks when we graduated veterinary school before either of us started working. And it is definitely a place my heart is. And I could always go back to Greece any day of the so that.
Megan Sprinkle
I love it. And finally, what is something you are most grateful for?
Laurie Dohmen
Probably my husband and my family and the fact that I get to do all this for a living. They say if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. And I would say that is really accurate for me.