Joys & Challenges of Vet Tech to Practice Manager

The most obvious path for career trajectory is into management. What I hope you learn from Vet Life Reimagined is that there are many ways to evolve your career in veterinary medicine, but is practice management the right step for YOU? Our guest, Cassie, is a licensed veterinary technician (LVT) who decided to take the step into being a veterinary practice manager at a busy mixed-animal practice in Washington State. Cass will discuss the challenges of moving from a vet tech peer to a veterinary leader.

It can be lonely as a manager, but Cass will show the ways she has found support and a good work-life balance that fits her values including family values as she is a mother of two. In that path, she found an opportunity that allows her to help veterinary medicine differently and work from home part-time through working for Vet Snap, a digitally controlled drug log software that is making life much easier for veterinary practices.

Cassie joined VetSnap in 2022 as their first customer success specialist. She brings 10 years of veterinary experience to the VetSnap team. Aside from her love of medicine, Cassie enjoys spending time with her family and friends, hiking, fishing, barrel racing, and doing anything outdoors.

🟥 Resources:
💡 VetSnap
💡 Vet Life Reimagined Website
💡 Veterinary Practice Manager Resources from AVMA

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www.euveterinaryce.com 

Transcript

01:51
Megan Sprinkle, host of Vet Life Reimagined

So when did you know you wanted to get into veterinary medicine?

 01:55
Cass T
You know, it's actually a funny story. And first, thanks, Megan, for having me. This is a really fun, different experience to get to do. But the backstory on me is I actually started as a kennel kid way back in high school 13 years ago, and I wanted nothing to do with vet medicine. I just wanted a job to put gas in my truck, to hang out with my boyfriend and I just wanted anything. And jobs were hard to find. And I will distinctly remember that it was the kennel kid's job to clean the guts buckets. So there was a specific bucket of just all the parts of the animals from the day and we had to trash it and put it in the freezer to go to the crematory. 

Cass T
And I just remember that was the one moment in my life and that point in my life with the job that I never wanted anything to do with. Vet medicine again. This was the wrong career choice for me. And so I saved up enough money to buy a car for college. I said goodbye to vet medicine and thought I was never going to turn back. A couple of years into college, I just couldn't find what I was passionate for. And there just happened to be an ad for a vet assistant. And I said, well, I've done it before. I can go clean the guts buckets again, I guess. And I took the job and kind of the rest is just history. I ended up working at that clinic in my college town for several years, and I fell in love with medicine. 

Cass T
Not being the cleaner of the clinic anymore, I was actually hands on with the medicine. I fell in love with medicine, and I come from a background. My mom was actually an EMT my whole entire life. So there was the human side of medicine that I got to see a lot of, and my stepdad was a police officer, so I got to see a lot of the kind of ins and outs on the human side, but not so much the animal side. I just grew up an avid animal lover, saving all the animals that I could, but I just didn't know what to do with that love. And so finding this clinic where I was able to really expand into the knowledge of medicine really allowed me to just find that passion and that fire within me. 

 03:56
Cass T
And what kind of led me to continue to stay in medicine and pursue my LVT license for my state was actually two very distinct cases. The first case was a little puppy that was coming from a pet store. It was bred for the sole purpose of making money. And once it became known that it had something that was going to cost more money to treat than the person was going to get for the price of the puppy, they wanted nothing to do with it. They dumped it on our doorstep and Said, just off with it. And that just killed my heart. So I took the puppy in. At the time, I wasn't making very much money at all, but I was willing to dump my whole paycheck into saving this puppy. Unfortunately, I didn't end up saving him. 

Cass T
He ended up having something we couldn't save. But just that lit that fire in me again, that I was like, I'm where I'm supposed to be. And there was a cat with a urinary problem that was totally fixable. And again, they were just, we don't want to. It's not worth it to us. And that, again, killed my heart and lit that fire. And I took his case on. We got him the right diet and I was able to find him a home. And that's been a decade now. Just those little cases, those little moments with the patients just kept driving me and giving me that passion and making me realize I'm where I'm meant to be. And so we ended up moving home due to some family illness. And so I moved back to my hometown. 

Cass T
I finished school to be a licensed vet tech, and then I got hired on at my hospital I'm at now, and I've been there for six and a half years, and I'm now also the practice manager and a practicing, licensed veterinary technician. 

Megan Sprinkle
Wow. So looking back at those cases, do you think it is knowing that you can do something about a problem that kind of keeps pushing you forward, or is there? 

Cass T
I think so. I think it's that fixer and that problem solver in me. I want to help animals, people, friends, coworkers, like everybody. I just want to help. And when I see that there's a problem, I just dive in as deep as I can to figure out what the solution is to help those people and those animals feel better. I think at the end of the day, my deep passion is, I guess, my love language is. I love seeing other people happy. That makes me intrinsically so happy. And I think that's kind of what continued to drive me, is knowing that there's something that can be done and I can be the one to help do it. 

 06:27
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah, I definitely can relate to the, like, seeing other people happy. So definitely get that back to that first clinic where you said you started to fall in love with the medicine. Were there certain individuals at that clinic that kind of helped you understand it and kind of appreciate it? Was there something that clinic did well? 

Cass T
Yes. So that clinic was phenomenal for just allowing you to learn. There was no question that was too far of a reach. There was no, get back to what? Stay in your lane. Do what you should be doing as an assistant. Don't ask too many questions. There was never any of that at that clinic. It was so open, and the doctors that owned the practice were so incredibly intelligent, both graduates of Washington State University and just the wealth of knowledge and the openness to just take me under their wing and let me learn. Knowing full well, I had no intentions of ever wanting to be an actual veterinarian. I just wanted something to do with the saving of animals and just those being open. I think that's really what allowed me to not feel scared to ask those questions and to learn. 

 07:37
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah. When you hear other veterinary assistants, that are considering getting their LVT. Is there anything that you talk to them about in trying to make that decision? 

Cass T
Yes, I tell them, if you can go shadow a clinic. Commonly people have this idea of what vet medicine is going to be and the helping of animals, and I just get to play with the pets and that's just not the case. And different states have different laws regarding what assistants versus veterinary technicians can do. And so commonly I'll tell people, just do your research. Step one is maybe find a clinic where you can go shadow for a day and ask these questions to the people in these roles. Do all the research you can online, become a member of the AVMA, look up all of their stuff online because they're really good at kind of detailing out the duty differences between the assistants and the LVTs, RVTs and CVTs. Because not all states are the same. There's not like a nationwide requirement. 

Cass T
Every state is different. So I tell people to kind of start there and as far as kind of deciding if that's where you want to stop, are you wanting to be an LVT and stick with that kind of nursing more the nursing role? Or is this something where you want to become maybe doctorate of Veterinary Medicine and looking at what those schooling difference are, looking at what the pay difference is, looking at the longevity in the field. Personally, when I was making that decision, vet school versus LVT, it's looking at what the differences is that you get to do. And what I tell people in my choice and why I chose LVT is I love doctors. I have a very deep respect for doctors. I didn't want to do what doctors do. 

 09:21
Cass T
Doctors are doing their physical exams, they're in their textbooks, they're getting dosages, they're charting, and they're talking to clients. And hopefully they're getting to actually love on those patients and be the ones that are doing the nursing care. But nine times out of ten, they're not. And what I wanted to do was the actual hands on nursing care. I wanted to be that one that places that catheter, sets up those fluids and goes and sits with that patient and truly nurses them back to health. So I would guide people in really kind of deciding what it is that you want to do and really learning what those different roles are and the duties of the day to day. 

Cass T
Because sure, there may be a day where a doctor gets to go do those things that an LVT gets to do, but on a busy day, kind of looking at the bigger picture. They may not get to do that as much. 

Megan Sprinkle
Yeah. If being hands on with the patients was such a big, rewarding part of the job for you, what does your job now look like as a practice manager? Because in my mind, that's people management. I could be wrong, but that's kind of what I think about. So what does your job look like now as a practice manager, and what was kind of the journey to decide to go that direction? 

 10:35
Cass T
So I'm actually very spoiled at my clinic. I get to dabble in both worlds a little bit. So not only do I help manage the practice, but I also still get to be an LVT. So when kind of deciding to take this role, number one, it goes back to my, like, I want to help people, and I saw a need where I could help be a voice for my coworkers when being able to approach the practice manager. We didn't currently have a practice manager. It was all on the practice owner. 

Cass T
And so I kind of was able to go into that role of, hey, I've worked on the battle lines and with these people, and I also come with the experience of different clinics and being that kind of who I am as a person, wanting everyone's voice heard and trying to get my coworkers and myself taken care of, not just from things that we do day to day, but benefits and pay and just advocating. I think that's the biggest thing that drove me into this position with being very lucky that what comes with that position is filling the gaps. Right. So I believe in taking care of my people and stepping in where it's needed. 

 11:38
Cass T
So if somebody's out for the day and they need me on the floor as an LVT, that's where I am handling those disgruntled clients so that my staff doesn't have to. That's the biggest thing that I went in there was, I said, okay, I would love this position. Biggest thing is I'm the voice for the people like me and making sure that they're well taken care of and they have quality of life and a work life balance, but also being that barrier of, okay, you guys don't have tolerate this from clients. Send them to me. I will do this for you. I would never expect a staff member to sit there on the phone and get berated for 510, even 30 seconds. I don't want anybody to have to handle that. So it's stepping into those type of roles. 

Cass T
But like I said, I'm lucky. I still get to also be the surgical tech and run cases and be on the floor and be with the people, because I think that's probably one of the most isolating things as a practice manager, is you get put in this position where you are managing people, you're managing finances, you're managing overhead, and all the things that are the unfun stuff of running a business. And so it can be very isolating. So to have that balance of still getting to go back and be one of the people not viewed as like the big scary guy, I think that's probably where my passion is at. And the balance of it. 

Megan Sprinkle
Yeah, what a great point. And I think all the more reasons also if you are a practice manager, to make sure that you get support, whether it's joining different groups for practice managers, so you can kind of get that support system who kind of knows what you're going through, which is I also understand wanting to do lots of different things. That's kind of why I like what I do now personally. But then I also, maybe I'm getting a little defensive for you. Is it hard to draw a line sometimes between I'm cast the technician setting up for surgery, assisting surgery, and then I'm cast the practice manager? Do you have trouble kind of drawing the, I hate to say draw the line, but do you know what I'm trying to say? 

13:42
Cass T
No. It is. That definitely is one of the more harder parts of coming from, I would say, my position of starting as an LVT and then promoting up within the practice, because there then kind of becomes this, okay, I have to have boundaries, but at the same time, I'm still me. I'm still the same me that you've known the last six years. It's just now I have to be the one to uphold the policies. And that can definitely be difficult, especially because I care so much about the people as people first. That's my biggest saying is we are people first, we're employees second. But there also comes that balance of a business has to run. 

Cass T
And so having that boundary of I understand your scenarios and I understand your life and you as a person, but I still have to do discipline when it's needed and uphold those policies. It definitely can be difficult. And like you said, it's very important to find those avenues of support for ourselves. And I've been very lucky. I actually weigh very heavily on my practice owner. She's a phenomenal person. We've gotten very close. I can spitball off of hEr. I can open up to her without worrying that it's ever going to go down the line and hurt anybody. If that makes sense. And she's been in my position, right, trying to practice everything, trying to be the doctor and manage everything in her life. 

Cass T
And so to have her as honestly my role model has been astronomically amazing for my life the last two years in my position. And also social media and things like this where you get to talk to other people and kind of just open up. Because I'm a person too, right? I need to always remember that and remind myself I care so much and I put so much out there for everybody else, but I'm a person also, and my cup matters as well as being full. And so these avenues, I actually rely heavily on social media, Facebook groups, there's practice manager, Facebook groups that have just really helped me to be able to see, like, hey, did I handle this appropriately or what would you guys have done in this scenario? And everyone's just so welcoming. No one's like, bashing people. 

 15:48
Cass T
Nobody's out to get anybody. It's just kind of remembering we're all in it together. And that has really helped me to maintain that balance. 

Megan Sprinkle
Yeah, I have heard challenges with maintaining a supportive culture within a clinic sometimes. Have you struggled with that or kind of seen where that can be challenging? 

Cass T
Yeah, I've seen where it can be challenging, definitely. When you have to be the one to uphold the discipline side of stuff, it's really hard. Like when we all go out and hang outside of work, and then I'm just cast. I'm not cast the manager, I'm just cast. And then we come to work and I'm cast the LVT on some days, and then there comes the day where I have to sit down and say, okay, unfortunately, I have to follow this policy which can lead to discipline. That is really hard because I don't ever want people to be like, well, you were cool Friday night, why are you being not cool now? So finding that balance is definitely difficult. And I always try to start that with saying, I care about you as a person, but there has to be a boundary. 

Cass T
And I think that's the hardest thing just in vet medicine in general, is finding boundaries. I think we can all agree we struggle with the work life balance and with just saying no sometimes. And I will say, I don't have a perfect answer. It's a work in progress. It's taking each day as it comes and each problem as it comes. But I do like to lead with the morals of be the manager that I wish I had and treat people the way that I would want to be treated. But at the same time, not demanding, but expecting that respect goes both ways. I'm respecting you. I need you to respect me as well. 

17:31
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah. If I remember correctly, I think you shared a story about when you had tried to volunteer to cover somebody at the end of the day, and then they tried to get you to stay longer and you had to say no. Am I remembering that correctly? Yes. Do you mind sharing that? 

Cass T
Yeah. Numerous stories of that where, yeah, I was supposed to leave for a scheduled PTO, but we had people call out sick. And so I'm filling in those gaps. And I ended up, it was one of those work life balances where I chose work over my family and the plans that we had. And that's really difficult to do because I feel like you only get so much time with your family and with your kids. But in that scenario, I felt so pulled because I just didn't feel in my heart that it was right to walk out and be like, good luck with the chaos. I'm going to go have fun. And so I did. I ended up staying a couple of hours past when I was supposed to leave, and it ended up being like, I was there till end of day. 

18:30
Cass T
And then it was requested that I stay even later and help with after hours. And it's taken me, I've been in this field for over a decade. It's taken me over a decade to be able to just say that no is an appropriate answer. And it's a sentence in itself. I don't have to say no because. And then pour out this whole explanation. It can just say no, I can't. And that was really hard that night because I wanted to just stay and I wanted to help the people that needed help, and I wanted to help the patients. But I was also picturing my two little girls that were waiting for me at home and wanting me to come do the things that we said were going to do. And so that was really difficult. 

Cass T
And that makes that just kind of, with everybody in vet medicine, that work life balance. And that was a scenario that I chose work over my family. But there's been other days where I say, no, I can't come in. I've had scenarios where I wasn't sick personally, but my kids were. And yeah, they have grandparents that could have watched them and offered to. But when your little girl looks at you and says, mommy, I want you, can we just snuggle? I mean, that's when you make a choice. And there's been days that I choose my kids, and I think that's okay. And I hope that everybody else thinks that's okay, too, when they're struggling with that. What do I choose? 

Cass T
There's going to be days that you drop the ball and you choose the wrong one, but it's just whatever you need to do for yourself in that moment. And so I think there's a good balance. Know, I chose the clinic that day, but then there's other days I chose to stay home and get cuddles all day. 

 20:03
Megan Sprinkle
Well, speaking of work life balance, you have another job where you are at Vet Snap, and that is a fascinating probably story all in itself. So how did you discover VetSnap, which I think you joined in 2022, so not too long ago, but how did you discover them, and how do you kind of balance your job there and what you do as a practice manager? 

 20:28
Cass T
Yes. So little bit on me. I'm a chronic workaholic in recovery. Still, I think anybody in vet medicine kind of is. But honestly, it started as I had children, and I was forced to kind of step back out of working full time, punching all gears that I had in clinic, but at the same time, kind of having that issue that we all faced in the United States in any job of, well, I still need money to provide for my family, but I want to be home with my family. And so finding that balance. So I was working part time at the clinic, and it was actually my practice owner. She wanted me to look into this up and coming software that she had heard of through a CE called Vetsnap, and it was a digital controlled drug logging company. 

Cass T
And I said, that's cool, I'll get to it when I have time, because were always very busy and I found the time and I looked them up and I scheduled a demo and I fell in love with the software because it was going to make my life easier at the clinic. And so I was like, yeah, let's set this up for the clinic. And so we're going through this trainings, we're getting this software set up within our practice, and it just keeps getting brought up. Like, wow, you really are good at using this. You understand it. You're very well spoken, you're easy to talk to. Like, in training seems to go well. 

 21:54
Cass T
That they were like, man, this would be kind of a neat thing if we could get someone like you to join our team, but we will not remove you from your practice. They were adamant. They're like, we are not here to steal people from clinics. Just if you ever find yourself in a scenario and I just happened to say, well, I only work three days a week. And I mean, just light bulbs. They just got so excited. So that just kind of started our relationship of kind of meeting with them and seeing maybe what could work for me to help put this software in other practices. Again, kind of going back to that, I want to help everybody. And I knew this software could help people. And I was just lit that fire again, and I was like, oh, my gosh. 

Cass T
Imagine all these people if they didn't have to do paper logs anymore, if I could help get vet snap into their hospitals, and then they could have time back with their patients or time back with their families because they can say, no, I'm going home. I don't have to reconcile 50 pages of a paper log. So that's kind of what drove me to find out how can I help with this second company? And it didn't interfere with my current company at all. If anything, it made me more valuable because I had a deeper understanding and behind the scenes knowledge of the product. And so I said, okay, but I'm not willing to give up time with my family either. And so we've got to make this work so that I have my kids. 

 23:17
Cass T
At the time, I only had my one daughter, and they've been phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal to work for. They're amazing people. The product is phenomenal. And so I do that two days a week from home. I help set up other hospitals, I help problem solve, I help educate. And then the other three days a week, I'm in hospital. And I think that gave me that kind of perfect mix of a work life balance where I'm still in clinic because I just can't let go of medicine. I'm not ready to let go of the hands on medicine and getting out of my house and being around people, anybody that's a mom will understand that. 

Cass T
But at the same time, still having that fulfilling feeling of I'm still providing as much financially to my family as I feel like I need to or that I want to, but not having to give up that time with my kids either. And so it's just been such a nice balance for me, especially being a chronic workaholic where I would go work seven days a week outside the home easily. It's really allowed me. And it's so funny because I tell people, what's it like to just be able to wake up in the morning and start your laundry, get some coffee and get on you and you're at work. And I've always asked people that have these work from home jobs. And then it happened to me and I'm like, wow, I can never give it up. 

 24:36
Megan Sprinkle
So when you are explaining what vetsnap is to people, I mean, you implied it's going to make your life a lot easier in clinic, but how do you explain Vetsnap and what you see as the most valuable aspect of this service? 

 Cass T
 Yeah. So the short is Vetsnap is a digital controlled drug logging company that is on any computer, phone, iPad, anything you have, it's just internet based. It's an app. And what it does is it integrates with your practice management system. So when you need to log that Fluffy Smith got ketamine, you go into Vetsnap, you can type in the client number, type in the patient number. It's going to auto fill all that DEA required log information that's needed. You put in the drug, you put in the quantity, and boom, your log entry is done. And then it's reconciling and matching with your PIMS system on your invoice side of things and letting you flagging if there's any errors. So say you invoiced out for a mill, but then in your log entry you put 1.2. 

 25:35
Cass T
It catches that discrepancy and allows you to make that correction right away instead of waiting until the end of the container life and you're at this many pages into a paper logbook and you're like, I don't know what's missing. And so I think that's probably the biggest sell point for me was like, we're not going to have missed log entries anymore. At my practice, I was spending hours every month going back through and doing a who got report with an Avermark and printing it off and checking off every single thing. To just have something that's showing you those issues in real time within a 24 hours period. I know what's missed. I know what was entered wrong. 

Cass T
I know if it was entered wrong in Vetsnap or within my PIMS so I can go make those appropriate adjustments on the inventory side of things within my practice management system if I need to. And that's just been huge as far as getting that time back. Like I said, what used to take me hours is only taking me minutes and I can check it every single day and stay on top of it instead of being like, well, that was a ketamine bottle we opened three months ago because we're low volume. I don't know what happened to all this and so it also gave me that peace of mind if were to ever have a DEA agent walk in. I feel much more secure in the process that we're doing. So, yeah, hopefully that answers that enough. 

 26:55
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah, well, and the fact that you're doing this every single day you live it, you can really appreciate the product and the value that it can bring a clinic. So thank you for sharing that. When it comes back to veterinary medicine as well, you're able to see vet med from kind of two different perspectives. From talking to people about making sure control drugs are reported appropriately, running your current practice, you probably hear a lot about vet med from these perspectives. So what do you see as something that you're most excited about when it comes to just being part of the veterinary medicine profession? 

 Cass T
 I think the number one thing that I'm most excited about is bettering the lives of animals. I mean we're starting just in the ten years that I've, I guess it's been longer than ten years now. Time gets away from you the older you get, but it's been a while. We'll just stick with that. But getting to see the advancements in medicine, we have animals that instead of living to be seven, eight years old, they're living to be 17-18 years old. And seeing that quality of life that it improves for clients and owners. I still have the horse I had as a child. I got him when I was nine and I'm no longer nine. He's now 35 years old and I still have him. 

 28:23
Cass T
And it's been the ability to be able to provide that quality of life because I understand nutrition in a different way and how to help him medically in a different way. And seeing all those advances that are coming up through vet medicine that allow this for me and my childhood horse, it's also being allowed for other people. And it's really cool to have been at a practice long enough now that I've seen the puppies come in when they're eight weeks old and they're now going on seven years old, they're heading into that senior, that geriatric and it's just really cool to get to have those relationships and help people have the longevity because I really believe that animals and pets improve our quality of life as people. You're never going to convince me otherwise. I think they do. 

 29:09
Cass T
And so I think that's what's really exciting about vet medicine is just seeing how, again, going back to that caring about everybody and animals, they matter and I care about how animals make people feel. And so getting to help that and see it coming up through medicine is exciting. 

29:28
Megan Sprinkle
Yeah. When it comes to the people of this profession, if there was a piece of advice or piece of wisdom that you would offer people in veterinary medicine, what would you give? 

 29:38
Cass T
My number one is going to be, remember that you're a person first, you are an employee second. And I know that's hard to kind of hear after I'm like, I chose the clinic over my kids that day, but it does. It matters. And I think that we're all in this industry. I think it takes a special type of person to be able to last in this industry, and it's okay to say no. I think that would be probably my number one advice, is it's okay to say no. Whether that be it's okay to say no to clients, no, we cannot see any more patients today or our quality of medicine will be affected. No, we cannot work any more shifts. I deserve a work life balance and just saying no in any scenarios. And it doesn't just have to be in vet medicine. 

Cass T
It can just be in your life in general. It's okay to say no. And no is a complete sentence. And that has been really hard for me my entire life to be able to do that. It's always been a people pleaser, type a workaholic, go. But eventually you see things a little differently. The older you get, the more you go through in life. And that's what would be my tip. It's okay to say no. 

 I guess just another tip of advice is remember your why. I know this industry, we all know, is just such a huge burnout rate and suicide rate, and it's terrible. You see it all the time in the news and in our social media groups of people that just didn't feel like they had another option or the day-to-day is getting to them and they don't feel appreciated. And I want to tell people, remember your why and why we're in this, why we're doing this, why does it matter? Why should we care? And just know that if you're in a place that doesn't care about you and you don't feel appreciated and you're walked all over, you don't have to stay. 

 31:24
Cass T
And a bad day doesn't make a bad life, and a bad day at a clinic doesn't make a bad clinic, but there are clinics out there that will appreciate you, they will take care of you and they do care. 

 31:36
Megan Sprinkle
Absolutely. We have that choice. Usually we don't know everybody's situation, but usually you have some type of. Yep. Well, and I appreciate everybody out there. So if you're listening to this, I appreciate you so much, including you, Cass. Thank you again for being on that life reimagined. It was wonderful to get to know you a little bit, but I want to get to know you just a little bit more in our final four questions. And the first one might be a little bit of a doozy, but is there something that people may get wrong about you? 

 32:08
Cass T
Something that people may get wrong about me? Wow, that is a doozy question. Yes. So this is actually something that's come up both professionally and personally. And I think it's common along a lot of people in the United States, especially those of us that come from a lack of love language, that know I care about you. Common mishap for me is in a situation where someone is venting to me or telling me a story or we're connecting and it's getting pretty deep. I have a problem of trying to relate too much to people. So instead of just being the listener, I try to insert scenarios where I understand where you're coming from because. And that can be perceived negatively as people thinking that I'm trying to overtake the conversation or I'm just trying to spill out my side of things without really absorbing theirs. 

 32:58
Cass T
And that's never the case. It kills my heart that people could ever think that because that's not at all where I'm coming from. And I've actually run into more people than. Not that this happens to where people think they have ill intentions or they're just not understanding them appropriately because they're trying to relate. And that's definitely been something. People think that I'm trying to make it about me when in fact, I'm just trying to tell you I understand where you're coming from and I relate. And your feelings are valid. 

 Megan Sprinkle
 Yeah. Good people. Skill tip there. 

 Cass T
 It's been a hard one, but we're getting there. 

 33:30
Megan Sprinkle
The second one is, do you have any interests or skills that maybe not a lot of people know about?

 Cass T
 Interest or a skill? Yes, I have a hidden, I don't want to say interest, but enjoyment of electrocaughtery surgery. And I know that's really od to say, but you commonly, like, we all know anybody who's used electrocuteri knows the smell of burning flesh, and I don't know why, but I love that type of surgery. Everyone is, like, putting masks on, they're putting Vicks on their nose, and I'm like, I love it. This is awesome. And I don't know why. It's just a really strange thing about me. 

Megan Sprinkle
It is kind of like magic. 

 Cass T
 It is. It works amazing. It cauterized. We didn't have to suture. I don't know if it's like, kind of. I grew up in a family of hunters, so the blood and the tissue and the stuff doesn't bother me. But that's an interesting thing. 

 34:30
Megan Sprinkle
It is. Do you have anything on your bucket list that you would like to do? 

Cass T
Yes. My bucket list is actually to go. And it's not like a crazy, like, I don't want to jump out of airplanes or anything crazy, but I, bucket list, have always wanted to go to Colorado, to the hot springs in the middle of winter. I think that would be, like, the best form of self care. Kid free. Just go, me and my husband, and go down to the Colorado hot Springs. That is my bucket list. 

 35:06
Megan Sprinkle
All right, you're going to share this episode with your parents to give them a hint. Okay. All right. And finally, what is something that you are most grateful for? 

Cass T
I am most grateful for my health and the health of my family and my friends. At the end of the day, that's all we can ask for. I feel like in this life is to be healthy, because without your health, you can't do anything else in life. And I've been through some losses of family that were pretty traumatic and it was due to unhealth. And you watch that and you go through that, and your whole perspective of life just changes. And so every morning I tell myself there's things I would change. There's things I don't like. There's all these little things build up in our minds. 

 Cass T
 But at the end of the day, there's a saying that I saw once that just hit home for me, and it's, if you get to tuck your healthy family into their bed in a warm house at night, you have won. And that just really hit home for me. So that's what I'm thankful for. I am thankful for my family's health and the fact that I get to do that every night.