A Career Pivot: Pioneering Vet Med & Agricultural Technology

Meet today's guest, Dr. Shari van de Pol - a pioneering force in veterinary medicine and agricultural technology. After earning her veterinary degree from Ontario Veterinary College in 2014, she combined her unique background in computer engineering with her veterinary expertise to revolutionize dairy farm management.

As founder and CEO of CATTLEytics, she's developed software that helps dairy farmers proactively manage herd health and improve sustainability. Her innovative approach has earned her international recognition, including being named a finalist for the UN's WE Empower Sustainable Development Goals program and receiving the Women in Communications and Technology's Leadership Excellence Award for Entrepreneur of the Year.

Today, she'll share her fascinating journey from data mining to veterinary medicine, and how she's using both skillsets to transform the future of dairy farming.

Resources:

• Episode on YouTube
• Cattleytics 

00:00 Introduction to Dr. Shari Van de Pol
01:01 Early Life and Influences
07:40 Pursuing Engineering and Fine Arts
11:12 First Job and Data Mining
19:01 Transition to Veterinary Medicine
26:07 Navigating Big Career Moves
27:16 Realigning with Your Interests
28:31 Calculated Risks and Career Transitions
30:36 Finding Your Unique Path in Veterinary Medicine
31:58 Building a Veterinary Consulting Business
35:05 Innovating with Data and Software
42:34 The Role of AI in Dairy Farming
44:53 Recognition and Awards
47:22 The Importance of Veterinarians in the Dairy Industry
53:00 Gratitude

Transcript

Megan Sprinkle: [00:00:00] Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. Who knew that a young woman from Canada with an engineering and fine arts degree and who worked in the most advanced data and tech hubs would find her way to veterinary medicine, impacting large animal health in a unique way. I admit that I was fangirling our guest today. 

I have Dr. Shari Van de pol, founder of Catalytics, which combines hardware, software, and system solutions for the animal health industry. She brings together teams of veterinarians and engineers to capture specific data to help make impactful decisions. We discuss aligning career with personal values, perseverance, and calculated risk, and the powerful impact of integrating veterinary expertise with advanced data analytics to improve animal health and farm management. 

Not only is this conversation a great example of a very unique career path in veterinary medicine, it also demonstrates the pivotal role veterinarians play in diverse industries. So let's get to the conversation with Dr. [00:01:00] Shari Van de pol. you have a very unique start into veterinary medicine and you kind of had a career before that. So I kind of going to phrase this question. A little bit differently, but I do want to start earlier into your childhood. Cause I think there were some really unique things about that, that were a big part of who you are and kind of your journey. 

So one of the things you shared with me is that you come from a family of very strong women. So do you mind starting there and sharing a little bit about who you grew up in these amazing female role models? 

Shari Van de Pol: Yeah, I think sometimes you take for granted what seems normal to you as opposed to, what's out there, but then sometimes when you drill down, you find really cool things about lots of people's families, which I love hearing. Um, when I think of my grandmothers, I, I could never relate to the grandmothers in books because we have the grandmother on my mom's side who. 

I mean, she came from a farm and she used to be the one they'd [00:02:00] ask to come out and work with the horses and work with the cows, and she'd ride a horse bareback to like round up, like it was, she was, she was like a trick rider as a young girl kind of thing. and then I think of my dad's mother and she was like tough as nails. 

One of the first females that ran a whole section of the British High Commission. she was like, yeah, they, they were not out baking cookies. as much as I love cookies, they were both really dynamic women and they had, they had tough things in their lives that they had to go through. 

Like my, my dad's father passed away when he was three years old suddenly. So then being, a single mom raising four kids, in an old farmhouse, like there weren't, there weren't supports for that. And so, so she suddenly had to go out and get a job. And, you know, the fact that she. got to where she was and managed to support that family. It's just, it's incredible. but on top of that, I mean, I have three sisters and a [00:03:00] brother and my parents as well. Like, they're both incredible people. And when I think of, I mean, uh, we talk about strong women, but I mean, strong women and strong men, I think that's the thing is that on both sides. I have a sister who's. attorney, one who's a physicist and product developer, one who's an opera singer slash music teacher, you know, and my brother I'm lucky enough to work with and he's got amazing hardware expertise. So it's a pretty cool family. but definitely, you know, we were, we were very much, I think shaped by a few Shari Van de Pol things that sometimes seemed hard when we were little, but when you look, when you look at it in the scheme of things, I think all of us became really great problem solvers. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. And at the time that we talked first, you mentioned that maybe not too long before that you had spoken with your uncle and he had thought that your mom or your parents [00:04:00] had kind of pushed you all to be like these very high achieving individuals. And you said, that's not how I remember it at all. 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Absolutely not. Yeah. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: And, and so I, I don't know if I had asked this, but, you know, it's like, so what did motivate you all to work so hard? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. It, it is funny because, I can only speak for myself. I think I could probably reflect my, my siblings journey somewhat, but, I think outside looking in, it's like, oh, wow, your parents must've pushed you. And I absolutely didn't feel like that one bit. I mean, I think maybe seeing what they did and what they accomplished and how hard they worked, that was something, but, Yeah, I don't know. My parents didn't push me to go to university or not to. They didn't push me to choose a program or not. they didn't over praise me if I did well at a test. Like, I think the thing is, is that, we worked hard and we worked when we were kids. We had jobs [00:05:00] when we were kids. And, you're nine years old and you're walking half a mile in, you know, minus 15, minus 20 with like, you know, unplowed snow to get to a paper route to go to 300 houses and then walk back. I mean, there were times where it was so cold and it was blizzard like conditions. And I think I was telling you, I remember taking my scarf off my neck and wrapping around my sister's feet to try to keep them warm because we were so cold. And it was like moments like that where it's like, yeah, I don't want to be like this for the rest of my life. 

Like I want to, you know, it's having that reality of, you know, not everything is provided for you, that you're like, well, I'm going to make things happen. And I think that leads to some good things and some bad things. I think, It leads to the good things of when you learn how to work hard and how to kind of hustle, you're always going to [00:06:00] be like that. I'd say the bad things that leads to is at times I took sort of more of the safe route as opposed to more of the creative route. And in some of those instances, it would have been better to actually like embrace the skills I have versus, okay, I know that this is going to lead to this, which is going to lead to this sort of security. So, I mean, All of these things, have positives and negatives. But yeah, when I talked to my uncle, I was like, no, I'm like, I'm not going to be caught out in like poor winter boots and in a snowstorm. That's why I'm going to university. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I think you had said that your parents ran a nonprofit and so with nonprofits, you're probably not the most lucrative job and you're working hard and kids see you working hard. And a lot of times they really respect that. And so you took that. You know, going forward as working hard is a good skill to have and yes, as you are working a job, [00:07:00] you're also like, Hmm, I might want to do something that puts me in a different position than walking in snow. 

And just for people in case they haven't picked this up yet. You're in Canada. That's why it's so, so much snow here I am in Georgia. So very different, but, uh, no, and, and. I think that even though, you know, maybe in hindsight, you may have done something a little bit different, maybe been so risk averse. 

It allowed you to develop some skills that I think kind of work out really well. In the future, as we get here, so kind of piggybacking on that. you knew you wanted to do something where, you might have a little bit more financial security. And so that's kind of going into your decision making. 

So, when you are starting to look at university, as you mentioned, what kind of intrigued you about engineering? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. And, and it was so random. Like, or at least I feel like it was, but I knew I loved making things. I loved making things. I was good at math and science. [00:08:00] I was good at art and English. Like those were the places where I really excelled. And I remember, a guy named Irfan who is also in my class and, and who is like, also, we always did well at the, the maths and the physics and all that kind of stuff. 

So, you know, how you kind of keep tabs on people and he's like, Oh yeah, I applied to engineering. And then I was like, Oh, Oh, maybe I should do that. Yeah, that sounds pretty good. And I remember talking to somebody who went to my church who, uh, studied engineering and I was like, what is that again? And it's like, well, you're going to make things. And I'm like, I like making things. That's, that's good. You know? And, my first choice was actually to go into architecture. but talking to my parents and like, I would have had to move away from home, it would have been really expensive, you know, what kind of jobs would have been out there and the engineering seemed to be like, you know, more of a direct connection to actually, being able to, to be financially secure to actually do something related to what you're doing. , because you do look at, you know, what percentage [00:09:00] of people that study this thing actually get to do the really cool part of that thing So that's where that took me. but it was like a series of chances almost, And the university I went to that was, close to me, they had a great engineering program too. And, I started off there and I was like, oh, but I'm missing art. So they had an engineering society program where you could take kind of like a core minor in a subject that you want, as well as a whole bunch of sustainability courses. So, I had to do the whole portfolio interview, all the things as if I was to be admitted to art, but I was the first student to be able to take a minor in fine art too. So I'd be down in, uh, the one set of rooms doing art critique with all these like painters and then walk across campus and we'd be, you know, doing calculus on the other side. So it was, it was a really cool, uh, mix of things. and it was a lot of fun and I, I'd say both subjects areas, I mean, I still have really good friends from, from [00:10:00] both areas. but, I couldn't imagine how some of the skills I picked up in, in both of those sides, plus the sustainability courses would actually figure in the rest of my life. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yes, that's why I'm like grinning at just listening to this, because I know what's coming is I was like, this is so, so neat how this all builds on top of each other. And it sounds like you were pursuing your interest. That's where you started. It wasn't like you miraculously knew that this is what you needed to do. 

It was you were leaning into. To what you enjoyed and it starts to kind of build and I also like that you embrace two very different facets of your interest to both are creative, right? Because engineering, you're building things. You have to have an element of creativity and then art is also a little bit different, but I love how it can compliment each other when you can embrace it and. 

Be able to bring in both of those perspectives in a situation. So you're pursuing engineering. You also have [00:11:00] built up this very creative and the sustainability pieces really neat too. And so you're going off into the world after college and you get your first jobs and It sounds very technology focused as well. So how did you get your first job and how was that going? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Well, it's so interesting because so many of the decisions at that point in time, and I, I, maybe kids are less like this today, but I feel like I fell into this and then I fell into this and then this just happens to make this. Whereas I feel like this, like later on in life, it was like, Okay. Wait a second. 

Let's take stock and let's actually make a plan instead of sort of taking what comes to you. And I ended up sort of falling into doing, um, I went overseas to do some of my engineering degree. So I moved to England again. I really had no idea what I was doing. Showed up with a hockey bag with all of my stuff. I had, I lost my winter coat. It was long story. I, I got, had my watch stolen, a taxi driver dropped me off. I didn't have the full [00:12:00] address. I was standing by the side of the road next to a payphone, which in England, you can't use a payphone unless you have a card. So you can't even put money in it unless you like get to a store where you can use it. So. I mean, it was a miracle. I even like made it into the place I was supposed to go to. I ended up studying at the University of Leeds, loved my time there. And then, again, a sort of fluke trip to my friend's, House in Northern Ireland, met with some people that were hiring there and then I took on a job in the summer and then after I graduated doing data mining at a startup at the University of Ulster, so I ended up working at a startup. in data mining, something again that I would have never really gone for, but it, came to pass that I ended up doing that. And what a random place that, you know, I would start because actually a lot of my work now connects to that, you know, first job, working [00:13:00] in a small office, you know, not too far away from where they made the Titanic. in Northern Ireland, during one of the most troubled times in Northern Ireland, as far as the peace process. So while I'm just trying to get my first job down, we were stuck at home for two weeks due to riots. Like it was, it was pretty intense. so yeah, such an experience, like such a really unique experience. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: for a lot of us who have no idea about the technology side of things, do you mind elaborating just a little bit on data mining? Like what, what is 

that and how might that set you up for the future in, your current role? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: yeah, for sure. So one of the examples that I, I heard, I heard them using back then was that they talked about, um, beer and nappies, nappies or diapers, right? So, what you find is that when a man goes in to buy diapers, he has a much greater chance of also buying [00:14:00] beer and they don't necessarily know why. They don't know. You know, you could start to theorize like the reasons around it, but the fact is when they buy the one seemingly unrelated thing, they buy the other and it tends to be that specific diet demographic and those two specific items together. And it's something that you probably wouldn't tease out even by guessing or by, you know, any other method. But when you're looking at a massive amount of data about what people are buying at a shopping, you know, a supermarket, you can start to draw these connections between these items. Sometimes they're related, sometimes they seem unrelated. And so they created an, um, algorithm that I understand is. now purchased by IBM and used by them. but they were the pioneers of that type of technology where they could look at giant amounts of data and draw these connections between these items. And so, we'll touch on this later, but, but the connections to [00:15:00] epidemiology and veterinary medicine, these areas are huge right now, but they were doing this back in, you know, uh, you know, 19, I think the company was founded in like 1998 ish. so doing a lot of this work before it was quite so popular. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: You're, you're right. Like data was a huge, huge chap again, , maybe open AI kind of like overshadowed it a little bit, but we were talking a lot about data and how we're leveraging it. You know, I worked at Mars there for a while and they were really heavy leaning into data. 

So you're right. And then as you were talking, I just thought, I feel like someone had told me that there was like a big tech boom in Ireland at a certain time. Was that, am I getting that right? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: I mean, there is, and there still is 

now. I mean, because, because so many of those tech companies, I mean, there's tax reasons for them being located there right now. But because of that, there's so much tech happening in Ireland. [00:16:00] and you know, Where you start to have those, companies based, you start to have almost like this university style mentality where all these smart minds, you know, sharpen each other. And it's a really exciting place, to do work right now. And there's some great innovations coming out of there. There, there always has been. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. Yeah. even more amplifies what you are able to be around at that time as well. And bringing in that knowledge. So, okay. So you are here at this data company. What happened next? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: well, my sister was expecting a child and her and her husband were excited to be welcoming their first daughter. And I just had this moment where it's like, am I really going to live, live my life fully in parallel? Like it, it really made me take stock of like spending that much time away from family and missing these events and being, and, I had previously gotten a job offer. I got, A few different job offers, at IBM and I was, you know, [00:17:00] they were still in contact. They were still kind of checking things out. And, and then I was like, well, you know, I've got an open job there. I'd be closer to family. Like maybe I should really, you know, head home as opposed to getting really entrenched in life there. But I was pretty entrenched there at the time. And so, yeah, I moved back and I took a job at IBM. the very first day of the job, this, this decision, I'd like agonized over which team I was going to accept. I finally decided and I was like, yes. And the very first day I was like switched, the manager met me and he's like, oh, I'm moving. So it was, it was like, well, I didn't really need to agonize over this so much. and I think that's often the way the decisions you find so hard and become inconsequential anyways. , and then I started off there as a developer, and then went on to become a team lead for, um, one of their biggest products. 

So there was elements of that that were so cool. I remember after a dentist appointment having to, I needed to release something. So I went [00:18:00] down to the coffee shop nearby and I was just about to put out one of their fix packs. And, I think it was a service pack actually. And the person next to me I saw was refreshing the page that was going to be the service pack and I was sitting next to him about to release the service pack he was waiting for. And I was like, and I was watching him and he looked over at my screen and I was like, release. And then it appeared on his screen and he was like, Oh, it's you, you're the person that like, that like, you know, and and it was like this moment. 

And that was one of the cool things about working there is the impact you had. and I'm sure people who work at Microsoft, like they're, you know, maybe not so much when a fix pack doesn't go well, But yeah, that connection you have with all of the people that use that, it's pretty cool. there was so much to learn there and they have so many different areas. Like you can, you can continuously expand your horizons at a company like that. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: So, this sounds like you're really enjoying what you're [00:19:00] doing. how do we eventually get to veterinary medicine? What's the bridge to that? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Well, Like, it was a great job. It was a great job. It was a solid job. There were great people I work with. I think what I got to is that I'd sort of let these decisions trickle down, and I'd found myself in a place that really didn't connect with who I was. And so even though it was a good job, it's a good team, you know, the person that I knew that I was, which was a creative, artistic person connected to nature, loving agriculture, loving farming, loving that sort of, Um, pastoral, upbringing that I had, instead I was finding myself in an office building in the city and it was just so disconnected from who I was. So I started really thinking about, you know, who I was, what I, what I enjoyed, all that sort of [00:20:00] thing. And the one thing that just kept on coming back to me. was that, you know, in a career like being a veterinarian, especially a large animal veterinarian, I would get to do the things I'd like to do, like the problem solving, the connecting to people, solving problems that really made a difference for people, being able to think about systems, being able to be really creative and out of the box, because, you know, so many times, you're just kind of like, I've been given this situation, how do I fix it here? And I wanted to make sure that this was Something that connected with me. So I started spending one day a week, doing large animal vet calls. originally that was, that was actually something, I don't know if it's like this in your area, but it's actually hard to get a large animal veterinarian to take you on calls. they get so maxed out by externship students and so many people that are like, Oh, that sounds nice. That they're, they're, just, Yeah, another student coming along saying I'd love to ride along with you is not quite as much of [00:21:00] a, a gift to them as you might think, let's say. and so there was one veterinarian who was actually the student to my dad's cousin, who's also a vet, and even though he was probably in his 60s and she was, you know, getting towards 80. And so I, I tried to call, I tried to get through, you know, it wasn't really getting calls returned. And then I talked to my, my dad and my dad is like one of the most determined people I know, like this, this calm determination. And he's like, well, have you, have you really tried? And then I'm like, No, no, I haven't really tried. So I, I brought a book, I think I had an exam, like, or I had something coming up. So I brought a book with me, I went to the clinic, I checked to see if he was there and I said, well, I'm just going to wait. And so I sat there and in their waiting room. Hour after hour after hour ticked by and it finally hit [00:22:00] around lunchtime and I'm like okay, well, you know, like they said that they thought he'd come back around lunch and I was like, Oh, did he come back? And they're like, Oh, yeah, he did, but he went in the back door and he's already left again. And I was like, I was into like hour five at this point or something. 

And I was like, okay, well, and, and they're like, you know, we don't know if he'll be back for the rest of the day. So, you know, so I finally left, but that Saturday he called me. And from then on, yeah, every Saturday we'd go out and I'd do his sick cow calls with him. And I saw so many farms. So many different situations, met so many people. I play Irish music too. So I got to know them, uh, from a musical friends. And so I'd, he'd, he'd have all of his like, farmers around and they'd have some sort of traditional kind of music thing going on. 

So I joined in there and, and it was just, Totally [00:23:00] fun. sometimes really awful to, you know, all the things that you see in veterinary medicine. Right. And, I found that every week, that was the day I look forward to. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: it sounds like you were really finding what connected you, but then again, that bigger. 

Picture of also what I think large animal veterinarians do is a huge human connection because of the food supply on top of it. And I remember that was something also that you had realized and, I have a note here that you said, you know, something about in Uganda, that's when you realize that, you know, food supply is just not a given that you'll have food. 

Did you go to Uganda or did you just use that as an example? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Oh, I did. Yeah. I did one of my rotations in my final year, in Uganda. And yeah, I mean, not only is it not a given, but I think as vets, I don't know if you're like this, but we're like, Ooh, that could have parasites. Oh, I see. Like you see [00:24:00] parasites everywhere after you've seen parasites, right? And the average person is like, you crazy, right? 

And we're just, you, you start to see what you've seen, you know, and, and that, that lack of safe food, worrying about children playing near pigs, or, you know, and larval migraines causing epilepsy and things like this, it's, it's really, you know, these things are outside the boundaries of where we start to think are real issues and we're only saved by them because we've actually dealt with them and we've put processes in place. But then we get this sort of like very laissez faire attitude towards these things. Like, you know, I don't need to vaccinate for rabies, but because rabies isn't really a thing. And it's like, well, Yeah, it was a thing here. 

We did, it's gone. And now we've stopped and it's coming back. it's one of those things where, where some of the good situations we have is only because of so much hard work. And when you don't have that history of that hard work, or when you're in a [00:25:00] place where that's just not the case, it really makes that real again, you know? And so, having a safe food supply is, It's something that we for sure take a grant for granted here. Absolutely. Having just food on the shelves, you know, people during COVID finally started like getting a bit panicky about that possibility. And it's like, well, let's not take this for granted. You know, let's support our local farmers. Let's support these supply chains. because that's not, that's not always guaranteed. And historically it hasn't been. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah, definitely. And I think we, we need a constant reminder to that. And I, again, 

that question is going to come back up again, uh, you know, appreciating the, the dairy industry, even among our colleagues in veterinary medicine. And, So you've kind of, you realize that you've potentially found the, Route that you identify with, and it's going to ask you to go into [00:26:00] veterinary school. 

So that's, you know, four years of your life that you are going to go into. So what, how did you kind of think through that? Did you have to explain to other people, like what in the world you were doing? And what was that kind of like? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Well, I, I find that when I'm going to make a big move, I don't always tell lots of people because what you find is that, some of the people, no matter what you say, if it seems extreme, they're gonna try to say, ah, is that such a good idea? Is this right? And sometimes that energy just stops you from making any sort of, you know, moderately risky decision. So instead it's like, okay, well, we'll choose the people you trust and ask them. It's kind of like, don't ask clothing advice from people whose clothing choices you don't like, So for a lot of those things, if you go ahead and poll people in your life, you know, there's like everybody, you're going to have different places where you're going to ask [00:27:00] their opinions on, but maybe not across the board or else that'll just. 

Put you into a place of inaction. So yeah, I don't know that I told a ton of people necessarily. I mean, they started figuring it out when I started making moves. but. I think the thing is, is that, you know, to some people then watching it outside in, it seemed really risky to leave a really settled career, in which I was fairly senior to, to go and do something where I'm starting at the bottom again. but that being said, I don't think it's ever a risk to realign yourself with your interests. And when it comes down to it, I had somebody tell me like, because you were talking, I heard so many people saying, Oh, I don't want to go to like med school or something. Cause in the end it's going to be seven or eight years. 

And, And, and I heard somebody reply to that. Well, you're going to be eight years older, no matter what, you know, like, like it's not like time's going to stop. if you come out of high school [00:28:00] and you go to med school, you'll either be 24. And a doctor or 24 and had four years down with a job. 

You hate, like, don't think of, school time is lost time. If that's what you love. That's, you know, and and so that really made an impact on me trying not to see that as lost time, but seeing the opposite time spent in a job that's not connecting with me. That doesn't make me feel like I really want to run at it and feel so passionate about it. That is the lost time, you know, and when it comes to the risk, right, yeah, it seemed risky, but I am all for really calculated, , careful risk. I didn't quit my job in a rage or something, right? I spent years, you know, spending a day a week doing vet calls. I spent the time in between to consider what that looked like. I set up a job in between getting my prereqs. And [00:29:00] actually, then getting into vet school so that I could take enough time off to get the prerequisites without, you know, having to just quit my job cold. So I set up a job with a, with a gap in it. I'm saying that because I think there's probably people in their lives that whether they're a vet and looking for a change or the opposite, like where it seems too risky. And I think it's way more risky to stay put. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: I love that. So kind of what you're describing is a little bit. What they call the sunk cost fallacy, right? Is we are making decisions for our future based on something we've done in the past and what's happened in the past is in the past. If you've realized something that is going to be the right direction for you and your future, you need to make decisions based on that. 

And so I, I love that realization because that can be really hard to leave. Things you spend a lot of time on [00:30:00] you, you've mentioned risk a lot, you know, even from the beginning. And so I think if people have listened to the story, you did have a very calculated risk. So you did put that in. And yet I don't want to belittle that there was some bravery involved in it as well.And especially in large animal medicine, and it does sound like that's kind of where found your calling and you kind of stuck with that. And we definitely need a lot more support in large animal. And then did you go straight into dairy right after vet school or how did you transition after vet school? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: So I knew the other thing I knew, and I, I didn't really say that is that I knew when I started that I wouldn't want to do necessarily a typical vet career. so that was also something different too, because when I got into these situations, I would, I would get in there and I'd start to look at the data and the systems. 

And that was the thing that made me the most excited. And the typical large [00:31:00] animal like dairy vets role has an element of that, but usually it's more, you know, you're doing herd health all the time you're doing, you know, it didn't really have the elements of that, , that I knew that I would want. So, when I was, in my fourth year, um, in around there, I went to Cornell and did Summer Dairy Institute. They have an amazing program there. And I met a few people and they also saw me because of the questions I was asking, right? Because I was asking questions from an engineering perspective about animal health that made them start to think, ah, there's something else going on there. Um, and that's really where I made the connections with, the people that we would set it up where, I would be a consultant and they would be my clients. But really at that point in time, I was still like, you know, maybe an accomplished person on the, engineering software sort of front, but not necessarily on the vet medicine front. so I started out sort of on [00:32:00] day one, running a company and taking on, you know, one of the most, Forward-thinking veterinary groups out there, which was just amazing. 

But they were actually more focused on beef, or I would say totally focused on beef. And so that, was just such a good pairing because it gave me a chance to see how, see how they, they did things, understand how they got to the point where they were. And the mindset was so connected with the mindset that I had, you know, key Jim founded it and, I mean, I've heard this said so many times that he was working with, feedlot owners and people like that. And he would say, well, you know, when I look at financials, my best day is their worst day. And we have to change that, you know, like I shouldn't be making money. when they're doing poorly. 

We need to revamp that so that when they're doing well, I'm doing well. And that was really the principle behind how they, how they set up their operations. So then that [00:33:00] success brought success. And that really meant getting into research, getting into prevention, doing all of those types of things in veterinary medicines, where you're looking at the groups, you're looking at what's effective, you're comparing it, you're doing some really cool science. And so being able to then support that as both a veterinarian and an engineer, you know, implementing some of those programs tied to, you know, triggering, disease situations, those elements, it was a really cool place for me, to really take off. 

hmm. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. And, and so, yes, sorry, the dates do align. So you graduated from Ontario vet. College in 2014, and then started your company at that same year. And I know that this client that you're talking about is probably the one you were talking about. Like that was one of your biggest clients and they actually end up getting purchased by like an even bigger billion dollar company. 

Now, at the same time, did you also have smaller clients where you were able to see more of the small farm operations as well? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah, [00:34:00] I did. And I mean, I wasn't also disconnected in my area too. There's a, there's a ton of dairies and dairy was always something that was close to my heart. So, I mean, so I would have, um, connections on both fronts, and spent some time in, dairies in upstate New York and places like that. but yeah, it was definitely, there was a range of experiences in that. but it both wasn't traditional veterinary medicine, but it also wasn't the route that a lot of people go, which is more of a corporate type route. and it gave me a lot of creative freedom. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Well, there's that creativity again, you're being able to pull it back and it's great to have resources to be able to use that creativity. And I think you said, you know, once the, the big client was purchased, you got really serious about building your own software. And so. How did that start? You know, what were the problems that you were starting to solve? 

And what were you excited to use your creativity [00:35:00] to start building your own software to to make something really uniquely yours? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Well, back when I was a student, um, I remember one of the farmers I got to know more through music again, um, asked him to take a look at his data. And, I was there in the spring looking, I, I still remember sitting in his little office looking through his files and I was, I was taking them onto my machine and then, and then doing the system modeling that I would have done on an engineering project. So you create equations. And you use different inputs to actually create, you know, an equation that would represent, for instance, how much milk they were going to make what their somatic cell count would be, things like that. And the models were good, like within about 3%, except for the fact that when I looked at October, the, the year before, um, suddenly. 

 the models sort of went off, you know, his milk tanked, compared to my model. [00:36:00] And I was trying to figure out what happened like October, you know, it's not super hot. They're not moving around animals. They didn't have a disease event. Finally, I talked to him and I, I asked him, you know, why did that, Why did that change? 

He couldn't figure it out. I looked back and I said, two years before you had a similar drop. And then he looked at the dates and said, ah, that's when I switched over to green corn silage. So he ran out of corn silage and then he had to feed his, either he had to buy more feed or feed, silage that hadn't properly fermented and he knew that it was a bit of a hit, right? 

Like he knew that would be the case, but then he didn't want to buy overpriced silage from down the road when, you know, the prices were at its highest. And I said, well, that's great. But did you realize that the model doesn't come back on track until February the next year? Like it wasn't a blip. It was months and months of, decreased milk because what you were doing is affecting those early lactation [00:37:00] animals. 

And then their entire lactation was decreased. Um, and I think it worked out to be about $30,000, right. And that's the place where suddenly when you, when you can quantify it, when you can say what that is, it's like, Oh, maybe I'll make a different decision next year. You know, but, but before that he couldn't make a specific decision about this management choice because he, you know, he knew it was a little problem. 

He just couldn't put the numbers behind to see how much of a problem it was. And that was really the place where it's like, Okay, we could do so much, especially in dairy specifically, because it's so complex and some of these models really help, make those decisions. And at that point, I'd already started working on these concepts and these ideas, but then life just got so busy. 

I put it on the back burner and you're right. It was that moment where it's like, yeah, I really got to make this happen. And, it's funny how sometimes you need those little bits of a push or a motivator to make something that's just [00:38:00] an idea, um, actually reality. And that's where we really started. designing, you know it. We have to do all the things that a system does, but really our goal is to, to help dairy farmers or those people that work with dairy farmers to be able to say, how can we optimize all the elements of this complex system in a way where we're not just giving you information, our staff know dairy, we're here on the ground, we can talk through things either with your staff or with yourself to come together to some answers. So it's a very collaborative process. but we wouldn't be able to do that next level of, answer finding, uh, if we didn't have the platform that we built. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. And, you know, talking about the collaborative nature. Of the operation, I think is really important because a big part of what I took away when I got to see behind the scenes, a little bit of CATTLEytics, the [00:39:00] system, is that a lot of it is improved communication on top of it. So not only are you data collecting and being able to present better information to make decisions, you're also able to connect everybody who has a touch point or an impact on that animal together. And I think that's really important. I mean, I always think about sometimes the, the biggest barrier of, you know, solving problems is poor communication. And so the fact that you're able to do all of that with this and maybe, and you can correct me if I'm kind of, I took that a little bit differently, but I thought that was so neat in that. 

You know, you're connecting data with appropriate communication so the right decision can be made by the right person at the right time because you're connecting everything. 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah, absolutely. And, and that collaborative piece is so important when we go back to my time, way back in data mining in Belfast, one of the big [00:40:00] takeaways I took from there, you know, some of the people that started off that initial algorithm, , was that yes, you can throw all this data into a black box and make connections. But those connections often are not very good connections. Even if you find them, they don't always stand up over time or in different situations. And they also take a very long time to actually mine through and get. But if what you can do is you can start with an expert who understands whether it's buying patterns or in our case, veterinary medicine. And you can, you can say, well, I know this cause I have seen this. Let's see if these connect. Right. Then you can actually get to much more powerful answers much faster. And the thing is, as much as I might be, you know, an expert at being myself, you know, a veterinarian, the dairy farmer I'm working with is an expert of their farm. 

They know what they've been through. They know what problems they've had. And there's elements of [00:41:00] that that I'll never know, you know, Oh, this is when we changed the feed. Oh, this is what we did. That is, you know, so when I'm able to talk through things with them and that's often what I do is talk through their operations. 

They're like, this is the problem I think. And then this is my theory. And then we're able to talk through that theory, test out that theory and say, actually, we're not seeing a connection with that, but we are seeing it with this. Any ideas why? You know, any ideas why breeding is so terrible on this day? Oh, well, our barn is so busy and we have this going on and we have these people and we have, you know, sometimes, sometimes they're able to get to those connections that you just can't on your own. So that collaboration piece is massive. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: And you know, your software is a little bit like turning this dairy operation into a video game and, and how do you win is kind of what you said. So. I think on top of that, you're able to continually add on ways. 

Things to look at. So back to the [00:42:00] sustainability piece, you're able to be able to assess those things as well, because you're able to know how to look at data or collect data for one, but then also analyze it and use it to make decisions. So I think sustainability is huge. You know, the, how. The people operate, how you communicate with the veterinarian. 

and I'm sure we could do an entire episode on this question. So you don't have to go too deep on it, but as I was thinking about it, cause I actually, I think you did do a, uh, a whole lecture on AI and how it's impacting dairy farming. 

But 

do you mind sharing just a little bit 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: So, we use AI, we implement AI, we teach about AI, I think the big, the elements of that are one, helping your dairy clients be educated about it. What tools are out there? You know, what tools are out there that can help them write their protocols, can help them, connect with their staff, can help, you know, get over language barriers. [00:43:00] There's a ton of stuff out there and just knowing what's out there and how to use it effectively is, is important in that communication. Then as far as how we use AI, we have, I mean, we've got, a large language model that's part of our platform, and that helps answer questions, connect into the data in a very dynamic way so that you can ask questions and it'll get, get you answers specific to your herd. but also when we're doing data mining or we're doing, you know, data analytics, we have a very specific way that we use AI and machine learning in that, you know how I said that, that we look for the connections first. So when we find those connections, then it's taking those connections and putting it into a machine learning model to then tune that further. So when we're looking at the outcome of reading decisions, or we're looking at how to best tune your voluntary waiting period, or what's best as far as, you know, When to put a cow into close up. All of those things are things that people just kind of, [00:44:00] you know, there was this paper that went out here, or I I'm going to kind of guess based on this, but being able to get actual answers to those that's so key. And so using farmer's own data to be able to generate these answers, gives them answers that they've never had before. So, yeah, we use it in multiple ways, but I think it's just making sure that you know what it is. Uh, you're educating your clients about it and, and taking the good from what it is. You know, if, if we take what's given to us and then complain about it, um, I feel like that's way less effective than actually being part of the design of a really good AI. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. And what a great example to kind of implement onto other aspects of veterinary medicine too. And I again, just want to say how awesome I think this is. And I'm not the only one who thinks it is. You are constantly winning awards. I'm trying to keep up with you as you post. I think it started with the [00:45:00] farmer's choice awards, and then you went overseas to, uh, Participate in some competitions. 

I think the last I heard was like a semi finalist in, is it The Odlum Brown Forum pitch program? So, I mean, you're, you're doing fantastic. How's that? How's that going? Am I up to date? 

What's the, what's the news? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: No, there, it's pretty cool because in each one of these areas, first off, it's, I mean, I think we all, you know, it, it's one thing to, to win the award for the award, but it's another thing when you know that this ties, this brings attention to the entire team. It brings attention to all of the work that we're doing. 

It brings attention to the collaborations we have with dairies, the number of people that when I call up and say, Hey, do you want to work with me on this and say, yes. You know, that's the real thing that I, that I'd love to highlight in these and what we're doing in such a foundational industry. Like we all should care about where our dairy products come from [00:46:00] and people care and they don't know what to do. Then if you don't know what to do, you know, we're doing something, come, come work with us, come be part of this, you know, come collaborate with us. And I think these awards just really make that all the more easy, , because it, puts a spotlight on that. I mean, Singapore was amazing, um, it's not exactly a dairy hotspot, but it was a lot of fun. I'll be traveling to Vancouver as part of the Odlum Brown, um, pitch competition there. Um, but you know, some of the things that make the most. difference to me really are when one of our clients sends me a message or a screenshot saying, Hey, we're using this. Hey, you know, we use this for task management because we have a task manager and now that we can use photos, look, we're getting our, you know, we're getting our milk room cleaned and we're getting the shelf up and we're doing this stuff. 

Like the work is happening or, you know, Those are the things that, for me, like, really are amazing, but when people are [00:47:00] so, I think as a large animal vet, for a long time, I kind of, uh, worked in the shadows a little bit, and having those moments where I connect with people and it's like, we do care about this, this is important, it's pretty amazing, and I hope it brings good things to all, You know, all large animal veterinarians, all veterinarians really just highlighting the work that we're doing and why it's important. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah. And again, this is why I talk about so frequently how I love how important it is to have veterinarians in so many different places, sitting at so many different tables, because we bring such unique perspective, including into the dairy industry, which again is, I think what you're doing is highlighting, the importance of having veterinarians there, because, you know, you're able to make a difference. 

I had a, another guest call what she was doing, being part of the solution, right? Not, not complaining that we're doing something about a very important part of our, economy, our, you know, animal health, public health, all of that. [00:48:00] And so, you know, coming back to a post I was talking about, I think you were featured in an article on the Ontario vet college. 

And. So, and I don't even remember what the comment was. I may not have even looked. I think I just got so distracted but, you know, someone had had apparently said something derogatory about, you know, the dairy industry. I'm, a positive thinking person and I like to see possibilities in everything. So sometimes I forget that people have a different perspective. So, I mean, to me, this highlights how important it is to have veterinarians in this industry, making a difference and making the world better. But do you have any other thoughts about just how important it is to, you know, have veterinary professionals be a part of this? 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah, and I remember, so, so Ontario Veterinary College featured me in one of their magazines and it was a big deal. I was super excited by it. Um, especially because I was one of the class presidents there. And I feel like when [00:49:00] I was, you in connection with, the administration. Often it was like representing student opinions. there was times where I brought things up that students were concerned about that, that there was a difference of opinion. So, but then, you know, really being represented by my by my university, you know, OVC, I was like, wow, that's so cool. It felt really great. And they posted on their page and I was like, this is awesome. You know, but then the first comment that came up was like, I think it was, it was to the effect of why would we ever support anybody who's working in dairy or, you know, this is kind of what's wrong with the world moment. And it was like, really? Like, If you don't, if you don't drink milk or eat cheese or, you know, like, I think there's tons of things we could do to decrease animal usage and animal products, but when it comes down to it, you know, ice cream is still being made every day. Do you [00:50:00] not want us to move towards a better way of doing that? You know, so, so I get that there's a difference in opinion on, on that being a food source. But the fact is it is a food source. And do you want people advocating for the animals involved? Or do you want silence? Like, what is this world that you want? and and I think that's the thing is that we're sometimes in contentious places. Whether it's a small animal vet who has to do, you know, has to put an animal down and people don't understand why, or wherever you are, and you feel that tension between sometimes a public perception and what you think is really right on the ground, and I think we have to stand, we have to stand our ground on these, because we are representing the animals, you know, involved, and we have spent the time and the education to understand you know, what's good? and coming from an uneducated opinion, uh, potentially about some of these [00:51:00] things, or even an educated opinion from a different place, it's really one of those things where, If we don't, if we consistently bow to public opinion, then there's nobody that's going to be truly standing up for the animals that they've spent years and years learning about to best represent. so yeah, it was one of those posts where it was like, you know, really? Like, like that's, you know, vets have to have such stamina to continue to stand up for the animals, you know, that they work with every day. And then to tear somebody down, it's like, I don't know if this is doing what you want it to do moment. But I mean, that's something where, like for one person who's like that, there's another thousand that aren't like that. And so that was my own fault for reading it on and being like, ah, right. Because really it's, it's taking that broader perspective and saying, okay, you know, and, You know, that's, that's how [00:52:00] I got connected to you. 

Like I 

think that's one of the big themes of this is being able to take something that maybe isn't, isn't a great, uh, situation and pivot it into something really good. 

megan-sprinkle_1_12-12-2024_130803: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think colleague to colleague, we should support each other, but I also see it as a sign that we do need to talk about this more. We do need to talk about how important it is to have veterinarians in all these aspects because wherever animals are, we need to be. And we even talk about it in corporate medicine, right? 

 If we have a bunch of business people who do not know anything about veterinary medicine, then making all the decisions. And this veterinary company, you know, that's not good either. We need veterinarians there. So I want to thank you for what you do. I can't wait to continue to follow you and see what else, you know, we do to make this a better world and, and all corners of it. And so finally, I just want to ask. My last question is, what is something you're, you're very grateful for right now?[00:53:00] 

squadcaster-g04f_1_12-12-2024_130803: Oh, yeah, obviously my family, I mean, when I come back, I've got two little girls. I've got a five and a seven year old and they're amazing. And I mean, coming back and spending any time with them just resets you. You can't take yourself too seriously. You can't, You know, anything that you deal with during the day seems minimal, and I've got an incredible husband, uh, who just makes so much possible. so super grateful for my family. but also like in the, in the scheme of all this stuff, like talking about, what we do as a, profession. there have been so many people who've come alongside what we're doing and said, Hey, I, you know, let's do this here together. Can I help you here? 

You know, I've got a connection here. Like that piece of it, that community and, It's just incredible because we are doing cool things, but we want to create more of a community. We want to connect with people who feel very like minded. And that type of a community has really allowed us to do so much this past year. 

It's, it's [00:54:00] amazing. 

Megan Sprinkle: I hope you enjoyed this fascinating veterinary story. We can make an impact in so many places. Check out the show notes for lots of resources. Please make sure you are subscribed on your podcast app, subscribe on the YouTube channel and follow me on LinkedIn, where I hang out the most. You can contact me on LinkedIn, on the website at vetlifereimagined. 

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