Stem Cells & the Future of Vet Medicine | Dr. Rebecca Windsor

Would you leave a stable clinic job for a new adventure? What if stem cells could change the future of veterinary medicine?

In this episode of Vet Life Reimagined, Dr. Rebecca Windsor, board-certified veterinary neurologist and now Director of Veterinary Affairs at Gallant, shares her inspiring journey from specialty practice to pioneering regenerative medicine.

Dr. Windsor opens up about her passion for neurology, the groundbreaking research that brought new hope to conditions like pug encephalitis, and how she made the bold leap from clinical practice to industry. Along the way, she highlights the power of mentorship, the challenges and rewards of career pivots, and the importance of aligning work with both passion and family priorities.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

• How stem cell therapy is being studied to treat challenging diseases in pets
• Why regenerative medicine holds promise for the future of veterinary care
• Insights into balancing research, clinical impact, and family life
• Lessons from Dr. Windsor’s transition from private practice to industry

Resource: 

• Episode on YouTube
• Episode with Linda Black, CEO of Gallant

✨ A special thank-you to Kelly Cooper for supporting this episode.

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Transcript

Rebecca Windsor: [00:00:00] I was terrified a little bit. I mean, I had been practicing for years. I had a very well established practice and caseload and income and just like, I'm gonna leave all this and do something completely different, 

Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. Today I'm joined by an incredible guest, Dr. Rebecca Windsor, a board certified veterinary neurologist who has not only made her mark in specialty practice . But is now pioneering the future of regenerative medicine as Director of Veterinary Affairs at Gallant.

And if you like this episode, I recommend listening to the episode with Dr. Linda Black, the CEO of Gallant. That is one of our most downloaded episodes, but today I think Dr. Windsor's journey will inspire you from long hours in practice as a neurosurgeon and leading research with ETHOS to

her new position in communicating the impact of regenerative medicine at Gallant. She's proof that careers in veterinary medicine can evolve in powerful and unexpected ways. In this conversation, you'll hear how she's helping bring new hope to conditions. [00:01:00] Once thought untreatable, what it really looks like to blend research with clinical impact and how she navigated the transition from specialty practice to industry.

And I hope you stay until the end because we talk about certain family priorities that aren't discussed as much as maybe they should be. So let's get to the conversation with Dr. Rebecca Windsor.

When did you know you were interested in veterinary medicine? 

Rebecca Windsor: Great.

Thank you, Megan. We're just, I'm so grateful to be here. About what you've done. And so I'm just honored to be a part of this. , so yeah, thinking back, so I was trying to think of this ' I would say that I've always had an interest in medicine and so even starting like as a child, my mom would make fun of me because I would like go get like dead animals out of the yard and like put their skeletons back together.

And I was like, other girls were playing with dolls and I had like microscope sets and stuff, so we always really interested in, in science and in medicine. and then I went to a high school called the Illinois Math and Science Academy, , which is [00:02:00] cool as it sounds. But there's lots of really great, benefits to going there.

And one of them was every Wednesday we got to leave our campus. So we boarded there. , And we had book us to. To various different places depending on what our interest was. So they already were trying to gear us towards college and what we wanted to do professionally, like even at that young age. And so I started, , going to a human hospital that wasn't too far.

, Honestly, I think a lot of my path and everybody's is influenced by mentors that we have, you know, at different points along the way. And so I worked with an amazing doctor there. He was actually a rheumatologist. , And he was able to get me connected with a couple other doctors within that hospital and then also, and I was trying to remember how this connection happened, and I honestly don't even remember it did.

But he got me starting doing my days of rotation at the Brookfield Zoo. and so I [00:03:00] went there and , I now work with small animals. But, um, I was just so fascinated by everything that they did and just really felt so stimulated by like, the thought of veterinary medicine and doing that as kind of a different path of what I thought, you know, I would do.

I thought I was just. Gonna go to human medicine. , And then the other interesting connect is that even though I was in Illinois, the doctors there were. Were all uc, Davis trained veterinarians. And so I was able to talk to 'em a lot. They had such great things to say about uc, Davis. and then I started almost just like having this little life plan, like how do I get myself to California and then I can get in-state, you know, residency and then go to Davis.

And so, uh, a lot of just even those initial visits with those people at the zoo were so impactful. So, and then once I, you know, kind of went. Along the path of veterinarian medicine, I, I changed more to being small animal, but I think that was definitely solidified me wanting to, to make that change. So.

Megan Sprinkle: Very cool. So how did you get to California? Did you get there before vet school [00:04:00] or, yes. Yeah, so 

Rebecca Windsor: I, um, I was able to actually get . A full tuition academic scholar at the University of Southern California. So, , so once that happened, there was like no other choices in my parents' mind as to where I would go to college, 'cause if I could go somewhere for free.

So that's where I went, for college, which I loved. however, it's not free to live Los Angeles, Angeles. As you can imagine. So, , despite how my tuition paid for, I have expenses just living there, having a fun life there. And so I actually had to work my way through college quite a bit. And so looking back on this, I don't even know how I did this, but I do still have a full, you know, scholastic load.

And then I worked at two different small animal practices throughout college mostly, my final year. Of college would be in school all day. And then on Wednesdays and Fridays I would work from one to nine at one practice, and then on Saturdays and Sundays I would work from 7:00 AM to midnight at.

Other [00:05:00] practice. I don't even know if that's legal to like work that many hours., But I was just like young and excited and, um, and able to, you know, work in a technical capacity without having to, you know, become an rvt. So things were in a more lax then as far as what they let people do.

But I made that experience because not only did I get to work with small animals, , but I honestly think it really put me in touch with like what the nurses go through. Doing those shifts all day long. It's hard work. It's a lot of talking to people.

It's a lot of not gratitude and not good pay and like I think that set me up really well for the rest of my career. And how I was able to work with my team to really just kind of understand where they're coming from and how hard it is to kind of work, , at that level. You know, I also had great doctors that mentored also uc, Davis.

So I had this like uc, Davis path kind of set, I think. Um, and so it was with all of their support, you know, that I ended up applying to Davis and, and stayed in California. So. 

Megan Sprinkle: [00:06:00] Mm-hmm. Yeah.

When you started vet school, and of course by the time you ended, what was your interest? You know, what did you think your career and life was gonna look like at the beginning, and how did that evolve through, you know, your years at vet school? 

Rebecca Windsor: Yeah, well, I've always been a neuro file, so I think that some of us who are just like neuro people from the get go, I was, in undergrad, a neuroscience major, so that strong interest.

, But I really liked surgery too, and I know neurology has a lot of with it, but I, the meeting wasn't quite sure if I wanted to do surgery or neurology, but it wasn't too long after being at Davis that I got pretty set. . Part of that is, honestly, the faculty there is unbelievable.

I mean, they're, they're , so supportive. The courses are amazing. , And so I'm actually able to start working with them pretty early. I think it might have been my, first year, as a student at Davis, they had something called, the treatment program. I can't remember the exact. But essentially [00:07:00] they had students that would come in and help with the treatments for the neurology patients because there were always so many of them, and they were so labor intensive, use down dogs and stuff.

And so we had this treatment program. Where, you know, we ended up having different people assigned. I ended up running that program, you know, for a couple years where different people were assigned every day to come in to help the neurology residents with all of their patients. And so I was able to really, get a feel for like the life, you know what I mean?

and , what the patients were like, what the work like, um, and. just had a really strong, you know, passion for it and was able to work with the neuro team there as well, helping set up a database for them that had a lot of like video . So I was able to really start looking like, almost like studying different diseases and stuff, you know, early on.

And so, kind of sold, I think from the beginning, you know, to wanna do neurology there. 

Megan Sprinkle: Now,, , you mentioned that your husband is a veterinary surgeon too. Did you meet him during vet school? I met him during my residency actually, so. 

Rebecca Windsor: Oh, residency. Okay. Yeah, we were like, I think a lot of [00:08:00] people, uh, like veterinarians end up with veterinarians just because of like, who are your around, Um, but I was really blessed with, because we met at the same time, like we both started, we were first year residents at Davis at the same time. and so it was nice because then we kind of had the same path. Like it's oftentimes hard to try to coordinate, when you're different years apart and stuff.

But yeah, I definitely have like a love at first sight type of thing and um, but it's not easy trying to navigate a relationship with another resident during, during residency. And it's like hours and stressful and like working all that out. But I think we, we did a good job. We still continue to do a good job, but it is like, it's intense.

You're a little pressure cooker, you know, situation there. So, yeah. Yeah, 

Megan Sprinkle: I've interviewed quite a few, , vets who have married vets and, you know, everybody has their unique way of doing things. But yeah, you have to kind of balance too that you don't talk too much about work or, you know, just you have the right balance, for each other.

, But yeah, definitely. And then also thinking about. Eventually having a family with two [00:09:00] very intense careers can, can be challenging as well. And I think we'll probably get there. But after your residency, I mean, my understanding of neurology, maybe it's similar to a lot of the other specialties, but what were potential options that you saw that you could, you know, go into after residency and which one seemed more like where you wanted to head and why?

Rebecca Windsor: Yeah, I'll be honest, I was really torn. , I've always really loved research and I've always really loved teaching. and so I was really torn whether to stay in academia versus going into private practice. I really loved was like working with the people, working with the animals. And I really like, like high paced, high volume.

And so when I came on my residency in 2009, , we decided to just look , for private practice, , things and we'll probably. Get into this a little bit later, but things like now as well, where you don't have to have one or the other. You could do so much with teaching and research [00:10:00] now in practice, but when I came out in 2009, that wasn't really happen ing.

Like you either stayed in academia, you know, or you wanted to into private practice. We also came outed a little bit of a tough time, like the economy had kind of crashed at that point, and so whereas now I feel like a lot of the residents can come out and they're just like getting handed off and signing bonuses and stuff. For us, like there wasn't a lot of people hiring and you know, given that my husband needed a job, I needed a job, we were kind of trying to scramble to find something that would fit, , for both of us. So, , and then ultimately was able to kind of make everything work. But in the beginning, I know it was hard.

I felt like I was somehow like sacrificing something or letting myself down, you know what I mean? By leaving academia. And I do feel like a lot of pressure gets on veterinarians for that, And, you know, I think things are, like I said, are changing, which is good. Mm-hmm. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. So like you said that there's a lot of opportunities to bring some of those elements into private practice.

, How are you able to do that if, if you don't mind, kind of sharing your journey through private practice and how you are able to implement [00:11:00] that? 

Rebecca Windsor: Yeah, absolutely. So, , I've been in private practice , but a lot of, some of those years was like start family and stuff like that.

And so that'd be a bit of a priority. And once I got though, you know, I am currently in Colorado at Wheatridge Animal Hospital, , after being there for a couple years and my kids were like a little older I was, had better sleep, you know what I mean? More brain power.

I really started feeling like at that stage in my career that I really wanted to . Find a way to bring the research all back. Um, it was something that I really missed and at the , time, our hospital was part of the Ethos Veterinary Health Network. , And so Ethos Veterinary Health, uh, group called Ethos Discovery.

And so that's essentially a, a nonprofit research organization that's associated with Ethos Veterinary Health. And the nice thing about that organization is that, , we look , for problems that doctors face like on a day-to-day basis, like, Hey, this is something that I'm having trouble diagnosing , or differentiating.

Can you help me find a way to solve this problem? And we design all of our, projects around the problems, right? [00:12:00] Versus like, Hey, this is a drug I made and I wanna see if it works. You know what I mean? So it's just kind of a different way to go about it. So I was so blessed because I was able to start working with that group.

It's now been about six years. , Amazing organization. so well led, and I really just had great mentorship there and realize for so many of us that even like research, we're never really taught , you know, you're kind of given these projects and you just do 'em. And I'm like, Hey, I have this published, but I didn't really know what I was doing.

You know? And really being able to learn, you know, how to structure a project, how to do things the right way, has been so valuable. And so, with that group, , I've been able to lead the neurology portfolio and I'm amazing projects that have been so fulfilling for me, , just to feel like making a difference in a different way. It's not that I don't love the patients I do, but, but just to feel like, , you're trying to solve more global problems and contributing, you know, in that way. And, , since then that model has really been adopted. A lot of other practices as well. And with some of the merger s, , you now have these really massive [00:13:00] conglomerations of hospitals.

Like I know for our group, for example, we have 60 hospitals in the network. Now, but you look at, you know, blue Pearl and VCA and they're doing similar, you know, sorts of things as try trying to prioritize research. So it's so nice to see that happening and there are so many veterinarians in the private practice that still really wanna be a part of research.

And once you have these bigger groups and support hospitals that can contribute cases, it's really, , amazing the impact, you know, that we can get from, , research and private practice. And , so I've continued to work with. With that group closely. And, it's also allowed me to kind of bring some of the, like teaching and mentorship back in because once I felt like I was comfortable enough that I could teach someone else, , I took on the role of the house officer project coordinator.

So I help all the, the house officers kind of learn, you know, how to, to go about doing their projects and stuff the right way. So all in all, been really rewarding with , how much practice residences can do now. And it was, it used to be seen as like a lesser type of residency than academia, and I really think that [00:14:00] has shifted..

Mm-hmm. 

Megan Sprinkle: I'm glad you brought that up because , I specialized in nutrition and we're seeing lots and lots of different ways of doing residencies in our specialty too. And I think you're right. One, I, I love their approach to research in that. We see a problem. Mm-hmm. Let's look at this problem to find a solution.

Mm-hmm. , You make it very clinical and practical, which I think for people who think like a private practice veterinarian, you get the best of both worlds. you get to think about clinically how I can solve problems with my patients. And you're able to contribute to a growing, , data set that can help not only maybe a patient in front of you that you're seeing, but , all pets that are potentially having similar issues.

So that's pretty exciting. . , That there are opportunities for equally, , robust. Learning opportunities in, in private practice setting for residencies and the [00:15:00] fact that you have , like this program that can accompany that and again, still make it very practical and relevant.

, I think that's a, a really neat thing that we can bring to, , diversify different ways of learning and continuing our education. Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So, , you know, I, I guess during all of that time, I love stories and examples. Was there a particular, problem that you just, you just still remember being very passionate about?

Anything that you're just like really proud of to look back on and, and remember? Yeah. 

Rebecca Windsor: Well, my proudest thing is kind of like, I feel like it's been going on forever, but is also very current. So, , a lot of people who know me, know my of biggest passion project is, , and this was one of the things about discovery, is they, they kind of brought this to me, you know, six years ago.

Like, Hey, what do you think about this? You know, and essentially there's a, a disease that's called Necrotizing Meningo Encephalitis or NME. Everything is. [00:16:00] Very long names in, um, that disease is most common in the pug. So oftentimes you'll hear the, the phrase "Pug encephalitis" to describe that.

And so what's so fascinating is.

Histopathologically and genetically there's a lot of really strong similarities to the type of multiple sclerosis in humans. , And so the question that they kind of brought to me years ago was, Hey, do you think it's possible that there's an earlier stage of this very aggressive brain disease in pugs that people are just missing because when we appreciate it clinically, the dogs are coming in just crashing and burning.

I mean, oftentimes they're coming in, they're seizing, circling. They are so obtunded,. Lot of times they can't walk. And even with aggressive therapy, like you maybe get months, you know, at the best. A lot of them are dying within the first few days to weeks, and it's just heartbreaking. Really young, cute, adorable pugs, you know?

So, , all of us who have seen this disease, it's just horrifying. It's essentially a hundred percent [00:17:00] fatal, you know, so, so they, they brought up this question would be kind of an earlier stage to this, 'cause there's earlier stages of MS that, kind of go unnoticed, .

And so, um, they proposed this study design for me. Well, what if we just started examining some young seemingly healthy pugs? Do they have anything on their exams that are abnormal that could be maybe an early indicator of this disease? And , at first I was like, okay, I'm just gonna go look at a bunch of young healthy pugs sounds good.

Like, I, I was skeptical. I didn't think we were gonna find anything. And we started doing these screening clinics, , in like 2019 to 2020 . And I was like floored because we did start seeing very similar set of symptoms, not in a ton, so this isn't that common of a disease, but there's really similar set of symptoms we saw.

Across the board and the ones were abnormal. , And so at first we didn't expect to find that. I was like, oh my gosh, we now have , abnormal dogs. And so once we kind of recognized like, hey, this [00:18:00] very similar pattern , and so the theory is that they're already having these inflammatory changes in the brain that are manifesting the symptoms before they're really overtly manifest anything that the owners would notice at home, , and so we started MI and doing spinal fluid on these dogs and found that all of them had some early changes on their MRIs as well. , And then. , Cut the next phase.

It was like, Hey, can we do something to like this and start treating these dogs? And so, , this all started kind of happening faster than we expected. 'cause we now have this group of dogs, owners knew what the study was and then they were panicked. They're like, oh my gosh. and so we had always kind of had in our mind we would consider using stem cell, , for these dogs because oftentimes when are diagnosed, they're just treated with immunosuppressive therapy. We know it doesn't cure the disease, you know, and there's side effects associated with it. And so our thought is, can we do something immunomodulatory and try to kind of reset their immune system?

Um, there are a lot of studies looking into using stem cells for [00:19:00] MS as well. Um, but there is that, the disease course for MS is pretty long, so some of them, if they don't have that aggressive form, it's hard to like monitor and publish some of 30 to 40 year study.

So we now have this group of dogs where , it happens at a young age that you can start screening them the course of their disease. Is probably gonna be, if you're gonna cure them probably closer to within three years. So really kind of a close timeline that we can look to see, you know, do they respond to stem cells?

Do they relapse? , And so we started using stem cells. With partners at uc Davis originally. , And, , we had good connections there and were able to get cells from there for a couple years. And then they had some changes in their lab where they were no longer kind of outsourcing cells. , And so this is kind of like a ding, ding, ding where the next part of my, like life became connected and I didn't know at the time it was gonna be connected, is that, uh, they recommended that we reach Gallant, which is a, stem cell company, , that's providing, , out sourced stem cells, , mainly for their, , [00:20:00] research studies, but then they do some, , doses to research groups and stuff like that as well. And so they recommended, we contacted Gallant, met the team there, , started getting cells from them.

So worked with their cells for a couple years. , And in that whole experience has been one of the most amazing things in my whole career become, I get to work so closely with the families and the pugs and you know, it's not about doing research and publications and CVs and stuff like that. And really at the end of the day, that stuff doesn't mean a ton.

You know, it's like knowing, like, I like took this animal that I was watching just go down like this and gave them a treatment that made them that better, you know? And , some of them got better and stayed better. Some got better and relapsed. When did that happen? Did they respond again to stem cell therapy?

And I will say that this whole experience of , seeing how they responded, seeing the families, seeing 'em, you know, like how much better they got was so impactful for me. That became like clear to everybody that it was what I was most passionate about. Continuing that and [00:21:00] finding ways to bring this sort of therapy to become more mainstream and the potential benefits.

And so it was around this time probably about. You know, a couple years into this study, but when we really were having the results to start presently, , that the team at Gallant reached out to me to see if I'd be interested in coming to work for them, , as a director of veterinary affairs and so at the time though, I will say, and this is just like all on topic of, making changes in your career, I was terrified a little bit. I mean, I had been practicing for years. I had a very well established practice and caseload and income and just like, I'm gonna leave all this and do something completely different, you know?

It wasn't an easy decision, but in some ways it really was because of what it was like, you know, having the opportunity to educate people about something that I'm really passionate about, to work with a company that is led by some really amazing, strong, brilliant women, kind of be part of that culture, , [00:22:00] and really try to bring things novel, , scientifically sound, you know, To the world. And so I'll look back and be like, oh, I should have just, you know what I mean? Um, so I made it, I left, left clinical practice to a large degree, you know, and came to join in, in April here.

, But yeah, if you had told me, you know, five years ago, like, Hey, you're ultimately gonna leave practice to go into industry position, I would've been. Like, no, that's, I can't, you know, but things change, so. Mm-hmm. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. And I remember you said even your husband was like, oh no, you have too good of a gift to leave private practice.

And so it's especially hard when your significant others like, well, wait a minute. Yeah. But as we discussed though,, it may seem like it's completely different, but you were still taking all of your, your talents and your skills and your passion. And directing it just slightly different and, and helping those patients in, in a whole [00:23:00] nother way.

, I acknowledge that that change is very hard. It is very hard to go from 20 years in. A, a practice setting to being at your desk in front of a computer most of the time, uh, that transition can be hard. And, , based off of talking with you, it sounded like it was challenging, But so far it has been quite rewarding. Especially going back to your family 

Rebecca Windsor: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll say that it allowed me to do all the things that I really love and like I, I liked being in clinical practice, but I'll be honest, I was getting burned out.

. It's long hours, it's draining. The clients can be draining, you know, the change in the corporate structure of veterinary medicine, and we don't need to go down that rabbit hole either. But that's draining, you know? And so I was finding that like my greatest passion was in, in involved with all of this sort of stuff, educating people.

One thing I've always really loved is, , you know, being able to take things that are hard and try to explain to other people and, , and so allow me to be able to do that, you know, and create [00:24:00] a lot of new content and really like, interact a lot with veterinarians. And so, , I'm a big people person, a lot of what I get to do is, is still getting into talk people every day, you know?

And so that is like in meetings with my team. A lot of that is like meeting new veterinarians and talking to them about what we're doing and getting them about stem cells, getting out at conferences and speaking and stuff like that. So, so that part has been so rewarding. 'cause it's kind of fueling all the things that were making me happy, you know what I mean?

And, and just kind of your. Very, like soul fulfilling. , And I, I do miss to some degree being in the clinic. , But not as, you know, as much as I thought I would. I think it was just kind of time for a change. And, and, and you're right to your previous comment. It's hard when you do work, work so hard to do something.

Oh, like I was fine leaving, but you. I get a lot of like pushback a little bit from people and there are people who like are loving, supportive people in my life, but you know, I did get a lot of , you can't do this. You've worked too hard for this. You as though I'm like leaving to do something that isn't as impactful.

And so I think getting people to [00:25:00] understand like what I'm doing now is just as important. If honestly, I would argue more important. Than what I was doing before. It's just different, and so I think getting people to understand that, but sometimes clinician vision, they can't, you know, can't understand that.

So, um, yeah. And it has been great to be, be at home. You know, I've got two boys now that are, are 11 and, and eight. , I feel like the parenting need is strong right now. With like a, a son going into middle school. , So it's hard. And like you mentioned the, two busy parents and, , I always wondered how we would make it work.

And we have made it work. we've lived in places where we haven't had a lot of only support. We've had a lot of nanny support and a lot of neighborhoods. Support. , But it was, you know, a lot of really long days and draining days and I was feeling like even when I wasn't home, I felt like I wasn't present, you know, for my kids.

I was distracted and irritated and , and I didn't wanna live my life that way anymore. I wanted them to be the priority. I wanted home. Like they still know I work probably even more, but I'm happy. [00:26:00] I'm there for them and I have control over my own schedule and my own life. And like for them to be able to see, you know, that they're, you know, they've always been my priority for me to be here.

There's something with kids about like physically having you there, you know, and I think it's been really good for them. 

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Um, before I forget, the audience is very medical and if they're like me, they wanna go back and get this answer. When you saw some clinical signs of early disease in these pug puppies, what were they?

Because I, if you said it, I totally miss it. I'm like, what were the early signs? 

Rebecca Windsor: I know. So, and this is funny because you wouldn't pick up on it unless you're examining them. , and I have amazing videos of before and after stem cells in dogs that had this, is that they had diffuse pain.

If you palpated like through their neck and back, like a common symptom that you would see in the later stage of disease. But you can imagine if you have like diffuse meningial inflammation and your body's inflamed, you're gonna get some from [00:27:00] there. , Had reduced visual processing on one side and those lesions.

Always matched on the MRI and that is a common sign in people in the early stages. So people will also get this, like this hyperesthesia, so like a pins type of feeling, um, as well, kind of similar to like the spinal pain. And, and this reduced visual processing. And then they have reduced paw placements.

So like they may be fine, but if you actually checked all placement. It was abnormal. , And for a lot of the dogs that never got back to a hundred percent normal, that's one stayed residual. , And in people, one of the earliest signs of MS is these proprioceptive deficits, so tripping. And they won't even know they have ms.

They'll think that they're just like clumsy, , pretty amazing to see. And then probably about half of the dogs had seizures as well, which is probably the most common sign, you know, that you would see with that condition. And, most of them seizure free, just stem cells. Um, but then some of them would.

Relapse and we now have them on anticonvulsants and stuff. So it wasn't so much near all for all of the dogs, but it was a degree of improvement rapidly [00:28:00] was there of that, which was pretty incredible to see. So you get them to a much better baseline, you know, even if you need to add in their medication, so, 

Megan Sprinkle: yeah.

Yeah. , I understand how you could get so passionate about this topic. . And again, back to your skill of being able to communicate this because basically all of that is very confusing to understand. It's confusing to understand multiple sclerosis. It's confusing to understand that disease in pugs, it's even confusing to fully understand stem cells sometimes.

So to be able to communicate that. To the pet parent. But then now , even on a medical level, like I found it very complexing when I first like learned about Gallant , and everything. So, um, mm-hmm. So I'm sure you see that too, of, of one, just the awareness of that potential treatment. But two is still like fully understand , how could this work, could it be applied to other things?

Like all of that's pretty exciting. 

Rebecca Windsor: Now, where do they come? From, what are they? Because there's a lot of really common misconceptions about stem cells based on [00:29:00] stuff that's really old. That's not true. , And what's interesting, you know, is that a lot of the platforms, it's not new to try stem cells. It's not something that's not been done before.

But what's historically been taking the stem cells from the, the donor is the recipient. So the sick animal that's getting their, cells back. And there's just a lot of concerns with that, both in like the quantity and quality of cells that you're gonna get from that. I mean, if you have an animal that's sick and you're giving them their cells back, right?

They're probably not the most viable of cells. And, and then they go through the process of like getting the cells out usually from fat, , which does have cells in there. Fat's got a lot of other stuff in there. So oftentimes, like these stem cell products that are coming from fat aren't really a pure stem cell product. And so, um, the nice thing about Gallant and, and this is why I chose to go there, , is the company's built on a very scientifically sound platform. And it's to make stem cells, be available to any pet that would need it and make sure that there are high quality cells, right?

And so any cells from a donor that is young and healthy that you [00:30:00] know isn't sick, , we get them from uterine tissue that would be thrown out know that it's coming from a. Sustainable source of tissue versus taking something that wouldn't normally be taken. , And there's just a stringent quality control with our products.

'cause it's all FDA regulated, you know? And so that way when you ultimately have a product which hopefully come in the future, , you know, that it's, it's gonna be safe, effective, and it's been quality controlled. And so it's nice to feel apart trying to like set the stage and like lead the future for regenerative medicine, in a high quality way.

And so try to dispel some of myth out there that stem cell therapy and regenerative medicine is like the wild, wild west and everybody's just doing their own thing. It's like not everybody's doing is the right way to do it. We're gonna show people the right way, you know? And so it was really fun, , and exciting like daily.

Part of that momentum, so. 

Megan Sprinkle: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So just outta curiosity, , when you're dealing with the FDA and and creating a treatment, usually you have to be very specific about like what it's supposed to be used for and [00:31:00] everything.

And it sounds like stem cells have a lot of possible uses. So where we are today, do you mind. Sharing a little bit about like what's possible for people in practice to be, you know, use and so that way when they see patients, they kind of will have that in the back of their mind. 

Rebecca Windsor: For 

sure. So 

I think most important thing is to make sure we get good research out there on everything.

And so, you know, right now the, probably the most studied disease, and this is the one that we've also studied the most, . Feline chronic gingiva stomatitis, which is like a really aggressive oral disease, , that 30% of cats are refractory to treatment and they're, they're miserable, you know? , So a lot of studies have been done on those before we started.

We have a lot of studies going. So really to kind of be able to prove for this condition, like this drug looks safe, it looks effective, and then the really the, for that process is then to get that drug FDA approved. , There are currently no approved donor stem cells, so from healthy [00:32:00] donors in vet medicine.

So there's one product that was approved in human medicine last year. And so, so I think the main thing is to, to like open the, the door. Right. You know, so you gotta get the, the drug approved and then opens the door for various indications. but I think it is important to do studies on indications and the.

Problem that we have in, in veterinary medicine and honestly in human medicine with stem cell research, that it's very heterogeneous. So it's like different types of stem cells, different routes, different doses, different levels of severity. No controls aren't a lot of good, like well designed studies to look at everything and so you can find like so many indications for, I tried stem cells on this and it worked, you know, so that there's a lot out there, you know, including honestly what I did for the pugs.

You know, I'm not trying to say that, that what I did was really any better. You know, I had a pilot study that I showed in this group of, but I think for, you know, conditions that are known inflammatory. For immune conditions like osteoarthritis, atopic dermatitis, , things [00:33:00] that we know have this immune component I think are where it definitely has the most potential.

but it's definitely being explored for kidney disease, for asthma so much in people for respiratory, you know, condition. So, so I think, you know, the more that people recognize , that this can be a mainstream therapy, the more studies that we can get, the more patients that can enroll.

A lot of it is owners will drive it too. They'll drive the enrollment 'cause they're like, Hey, I've heard of this. I wanna be a part of this, or I want more studies with this. And then once you get more good studies and then drugs that are approved, it really just open , the gate for, for more therapies over time.

But it has to be done the right. And so I think, , there are a lot of who really just want products out there to make money, you know, and, and not necessarily go process of making sure you, you're getting a good verified product that's safe and effective and um, and so it's hard to do things the right way.

I'm not gonna lie. It takes a lot more time. It takes a lot of patience, you know. At the end of the day, I think we're all committed to doing it the right way, you know, and I think ultimately [00:34:00] that it's gonna be better for medicine, it's gonna be better for, for the patients to do it that way, so.

Megan Sprinkle: Absolutely. And we're very excited for you for getting some great funding coming in so that you can keep doing that mission. So that's, that's super exciting. And, and again, as you're talking, I'm just thinking, ah, how cool that she's continuing to pull in all of these different things that you like to do.

. You're big on research. You, , are very good at, communication and understanding. You also have kind of been an early adopter to, you know, implementing new possibilities in treatment 'cause you, you mentioned one of the things that you're really excited and would love to talk about is about 3D printing.

, And so you said you were one of the first veterinary neurosurgeons to implement 3D printing. So did you wanna share a little bit about that? Sure. , 

Rebecca Windsor: I do feel like I, I started really yet jumping up on the bandwagon , of using it.

So we had a really cool case. , And I remember this so well 'cause this was a rescue dog, [00:35:00] that came from Arkansas, got rescued. It was a young shepherd, got rescued by a Colorado group and this dog had like, for lack of a better term, the most messed up back I've ever seen.. It, you know, and this was a shepherds, so really atypical, just this weird congenital , not just one place, two places where the back was completely, , like, , and the, the group contacted us, so like, do you think you could do, do anything?

Do you think you could fix this? I looked at 'em like, oh God. You know what I mean? I was like, I, I, maybe I. I, so , the dog got a little older, we MRIed and CTed the dog. And I was like, ah, it's, I mean, but I mean the dog couldn't walk. I mean, he was, he was paralyzed. And so, it is hard enough to try to like reconstruct a back where the bones are, you know, and they're just fractured.

You take bones that are like wrong direction. And I was like, I can try to like realign this spinal canis, but like. This is, it's very uncomfortable, and so at the time I had a, a [00:36:00] friend, , neurologist named Fred Wininger, who it started up kind of his own 3D printing company.

It was pretty early at that point, you know, and I was like, Fred, do you, if I send this to you, do you think we make a model for me? So not only did he make a model for me, but he made these jigs, little things that have holes in them attached on the bone, and we basically modeled together if we were gonna like, realign the spine and put pins, where would the, where would the pins need to go?

And so he, these little would fit on. On the model, but then you had to trust that those would fit and you just drive your pin through that hole. And, , he did such a beautiful job. And I remember being, that was a 10 hour surgery to try to realign the dog's spine. , And I remember, you know, we, we decompressed and we had amazing pictures with like the spinal cord being so compressed.

We opened the canal and had the spinal cord flat and we got the pins in. I remember , I'm like, this feels wrong. 'Cause you just, it's, it's not at all what it should be with where you're going. If you're used to [00:37:00] stabilizing a back, it felt so wrong, but I was like, I'm just gonna have to trust that these jig, , where they're supposed to be.

And we just did it and trust it and it turned out beautifully. And the dog now, this is years ago. , He was, we probably did his surgery at like nine or 10 months of age. He's probably seven, you know, now running around like a doofus, you know. Um, but yeah, after that I was like, why would you not have a 3D print?

And so, um, so. That has helped me along the way with 3D prints for, , skull tumors for atlantoaxial luxations. So I just like write it into the bill, you know what I mean? , But yeah, I've always thought it was so interesting and I actually, I'm such a geek. I have some of them like sitting up in my office here, like on the, on the shelf of some skulls and stuff like that from the print. So, , like those challenges and being like, okay, I'm gonna try to do this and this is gonna be really, but then sometimes you're like, well, what alternative is there? Right? You have a dog who's never gonna walk again, or you give it a try, you know? And, , luckily most of the time if I've tried things, things they've worked out.

But, [00:38:00] um, yeah, it's definitely nerve wracking for sure. 

Megan Sprinkle: So, oh my goodness, , well I agree with you. I, I think a lot of people who follow this podcast know I'm pretty interested in 3D printing too. And uh, I have a friend who told me that it remind me, 'cause you said the jig, that there's a group who is researching.

How to 3D print jigs for , TPLO surgeries. Mm-hmm. And they have researched this where they have veterinary students who have never done these procedures. They practice with the jigs and the models, and they're able to like successfully do these.

And mm-hmm. Uh, so it is amazing, I think the future of some of these technologies that we can do. Yeah. So, um, definitely something to watch. And so ordering, 

Rebecca Windsor: like, you know, for these atlanto axial relaxations, you know, where you have like the first and second bone luxated, that's probably one of the scariest things to try to have [00:39:00] stabilize.

And every dog is completely different a few years ago I started moving to using these like tiny, tiny little titanium and screws, but what's awesome is I would get the 3D prints ordered and so I would see their exact bones in their exact size, you.

But then I'd be able to order the plates off of that. And so I would be able to like, you know, I have in front of me have, okay, this is exactly how I'm gonna do the plates. And so just what that does for you as a surgeon mentally, like having been able to prep, you know, that to that degree, going in surgery of that magnitude is like, it's a game changer for your anxiety level and like, you know.

The owners feel more comfortable. You feel more comfortable, you know? , So yeah, I'm really hoping, I think that this 3D printing business will explode. I mean, it already is, you know, but I'm hoping that more and more people will recognize, you know, the value of having the models and think that people are going to having, you know, spine models too, of, you know, typical size dogs.

Like this is where you would be placed in your pins and stuff like that, which is so helpful [00:40:00] because, you know, you. You see a lot of imaging that is, your CT like in two plane to have a 3D plane that's physically with you is so helpful, you know, so yeah. You're gonna be famous with your 3D print.

I'm sure 

Megan Sprinkle: you'll get Oh no. 

Rebecca Windsor: 3D 

Megan Sprinkle: ping that we do is not medical. It's, it's, uh, hobby for us. But, but it is a fun hobby too. And I know you said your son is, uh, my son has gotten into it. Yeah, 

Rebecca Windsor: it's gotten into it as well. Yeah, hamster named avocado and so he is 3D printing a little house for avocado and I was like, I hope your filament is safe for avocado,

but yes, he loves 3D printing and is always. Make little, it's really fun. 

Megan Sprinkle: That is really cool. , The other thing that you said, you, you would also be open to talking about, and I, , I think this is very important, , for our profession. . It's similarly for men in a way, but it is, , it is still different for women because we [00:41:00] actually carry the children.

, But you talked about family and, and prioritizing them and mm-hmm. , You mentioned that, you know, even having children was not easy, so, since you said you were open to, to sharing a little bit about Yep. Your experience. Yeah, I'd love to hear. 

Rebecca Windsor: Yeah. No, and I am open to it 'cause I think a lot of people just don't talk about it.

At the time I honestly felt kind of lonely and isolated a bit. And I think for a lot of us as veterinarians, you know, that are overachievers, , you're, well, I'm gonna do this and get that and then get that and this'll get. that, and I was doing the same thing. I'm like, finish my residency when I'm 29, got married, I'm gonna start trying to get pregnant when I'm 31.

And then I'm like, I'm like 34 and what is going on? You know, know, , and I'm failing, you know what I mean? I can't do this. And I do think, you know, I do think a lot of it is stress related to some degree. Trying to build a practice at the time and working crazy hours. I mean, I thought I was prioritizing myself and my health, but I don't think it really [00:42:00] was.

You know, we just kind of like keep ourselves above water, you know? But I'm like, if I look back, I'm like, really? Was I really probably healthy, , be getting pregnant and carrying a baby, , and I, I struggled a lot with, , really being able to have any sort of normal pattern to be able to get pregnant.

And, , we were so blessed though, in that we are medical, you know, and so we were like, okay, again, this is the problem. How do we fix it, ? And we were able to, , meet with some of the best doctors I think in the world, , reproduction, specialists and, get a solution, you know what I mean?

And, and ended up going through IVF for, for both of our children. , And so I, I feel like we were really lucky. . I mean, it can be so, so, so expensive, you know? And, , so even though the process, it is certainly stressful to go through.

, When I look back now, I just, I feel, feel blessed, you know, that we got two healthy children and I, I actually had pregnancies and easy deliveries and stuff and, , reasonably good children. No, they're, they're Wonderful. , So, but I feel like oftentimes people will like, look at us.

Like, oh, perfect little family. And you know, and I [00:43:00] feel like I have to tell people like, we fought for this family. Like the kids were not just given to us and you know, everyone around me who just seemed to like get pregnant, you know, naturally right away I was like, what's up with me? So there's a lot of guilt with that too.

Like, what is wrong with me? Why can't I get pregnant? You know, what am I doing wrong? You know what I mean? and then as a busy professional, you do get a lot of, like, you work too hard, you are starting gonna get the mom guilt, you know, and you don't even have kids yet. You know, it's just like, so you're trying to do all of the things.

but yeah, I think. It's not an uncommon thing in veterinary medicine because a lot of us are in school for a long time, and then we're waiting, you know, to start our families and, it's oftentimes not super easy and, you know, , but yeah, I think, ultimately we, we'll be able to get where we were, but it's, it's hard drive through all that too.

You while you're working and all that. . 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I agree. I think we are extremely hard on ourselves in general, and then to have something also that emotional, uh, that we're beating ourselves up over [00:44:00] and, , and we're giving our bodies a hard time and, , women are.

Notoriously hard on ourselves for our bodies. And so, I mean, it's, it's like a lot of things all kind of wrapped up into one. And my story is, is not that different. I got married at 29 30 ish, uh, timeframe too, and I, you know, got. Pregnant, uh, when I was 35. So I was considered advanced maternal age, uh, at that point.

So I know dance maternal age. Yep. It's, it's better than geriatric. So , I'll take advanced maternal age. Yeah. But , I, I never want anyone to, to feel lonely, but , it's a hard one to, to talk about because , there's so much emotions wrapped around it. And then at the same time, you, if you talk about wanting to get pregnant, then they're like, oh, then she's gonna leave.

And you know, like, there, there's just so much that we can guilt ourselves over, over it. . 

Rebecca Windsor: Yeah. And I feel it doesn't get easier after they come [00:45:00] either. I will say one thing always gave me a very good like, sense of gratitude to be able to have children at all and, and always try to remind myself of that, you know?

, But it is, it's hard, you know, the mom guilt is strong, , and I always wondered how we would balance it with hours that we had, you know, and I, looked for examples. Like, I struggled to find them honestly of anyone where both parents are working, the hours that we're working with, the level of on-call that we have.

Like how are we gonna like actually make this work, you know? And we managed to get through it, but it, you do have a lot of guilt and you do have a lot of . Sacrifices that you need to make. , And , over time , you do start beating yourself up and, , I remember Making a shift though. 'cause it used to be a lot of me like apologizing, , to them like, I'm sorry I, I'm late or I'm, or I would never be late. Like they, they were always taken care of, but I was like, I'm sorry, I like missed this. Or I'm just can't come to, , party a ton on a Wednesday or you know, things that are just really hard to do.

Or a lot of it was weekend stuff, like, I'm sorry I can't go to this [00:46:00] 'cause I'm getting called in, you know, and I got to a point. , A few years ago where it's like, you know what? I'm like done apologizing. I work really hard because I work really hard and obviously my husband, my kids have an amazing life.

Like they want for nothing. , And what I'm doing is important, you know, it's not like I'm like missing out on them go get a pedicure. Right. You know? And so instead of like apologizing all the time, I just started telling them why, you know, instead of like, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm missing this, I'm like, I, I can't go to this today because I need to go help this dog who can't walk.

And I would send them pictures, you know, of the dog. And it's interesting how much I saw their dialogue shift too. Whereas instead of like comments at my mommy works all the time, or, I mean, they knew I was a vet, but they would be like, my mommy fixed this dog. His back was broken,

, Mommy took a, you know, took a tumor out of a dog's head. And so , if I told them what I was doing and why it had to take me away from them, , they [00:47:00] understood and can value that, that like, , you have a mother who works and she , worked hard to get here, to get educated, to have this , and you should proud and hopefully you'll t reat other women that way and your, you know, wives if you have wives or whatever, , and really just kind of change that. So, , that being said, I do feel like, I got to a point after doing for many years, for most of their life, where I did kind of start feeling like I was done with that, of being pulled away.

And when they're little, not that they don't miss you or remember you, but when you're like missing football games, , and you're missing like, , stuff that really matters to them. Then it, it is just, it's like, you know what? I'm not doing more, you know what I mean? I'm gonna be here, I'm gonna be here for them.

I'm gonna be there for the moments that they need me and, and not have a nanny, you know, be the one that's there, , for those kind of bigger moments with, trouble at school or with friends. Or helping with homework, that sort of thing. . 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well, I I'm very excited for , your new step with Gallant and I can feel your enthusiasm. I think they picked [00:48:00] an amazing person to keep , these projects moving forward.

So congratulations and I look forward to kinda watching your adventure at Gallant. Um, the last question that I always like to leave, and you already started to get in there, , was what is something you're very grateful for? 

Rebecca Windsor: Very grateful. Yeah, I think I was kind of already getting there, so, , I think honestly I'm just really grateful for the people that I'm surrounded by, , so part of that is my family and my work family, I've really been blessed to be an environment with like, just to be sort of people, you know, and.

They allow you to do things that are really hard, you know what I mean? And, and when you feel support and you feel valued, , it makes you happy. You know what I mean? Because it's not the work , like, the work is hard, but , you're willing to do it if you're motivated by the people.

So I really do call my blessings every day, , for people that I have around me. 

Megan Sprinkle: I love Dr. Rebecca's energy and enthusiasm. Our [00:49:00] conversation today shows a few key insights. Careers can evolve in amazing ways. Stem cells are opening new doors for pets, and it's never too late to align your work with your passion and priorities. To learn more about regenerative medicine and stem cell therapy, check out gallant.com.

Thank you to Dr. Rebecca for being on the show. Also, thank you to you podcast supporters out there. A big thanks to Dr. Kelly Cooper for supporting this podcast through our our buzzsprout platform. She's an amazing person, just like Dr. Rebecca, and she's a great speaker and coach. If you enjoyed this episode in the podcast, please follow the show, leave a quick review and share it with a friend in veterinary medicine.

And until next time, let's keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life.