Illuminate. Innovate. Evolve with Dr. Jules Benson

Veterinarians make an impact in the clinic every day, but the possibilities for influence reach far beyond exam rooms.

In this episode of Vet Life Reimagined, host, Dr. Megan Sprinkle talks with Dr. Jules Benson, BVSc MRCVS, veterinarian, strategist, and Chair of the Veterinary Innovation Council. Jules shares his journey from early mentors in vet school to leading roles in pet insurance, data strategy, and innovation.

We explore how veterinarians can imagine themselves in diverse roles, why innovation matters for the profession’s future, and how thinking differently about your career can open new doors for impact.

Resources

• Episode on YouTube
• January Prediction Episode with Dr. Benson's predictions
• Resources from the Veterinary Innovation Council 
• Dr. Benson's consulting firm, Tapetum Lucidum Consulting

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Transcript

Jules Benson: [00:00:00] There's no cookie for being early on the train. I think that's just the belief that the work is important and that you are making a difference in how this will impact our industry and our colleagues.

Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. Those veterinary professionals who can imagine themselves in diverse roles, whether in practice, data, business or technology, are the ones shaping the future of our profession. This podcast is about reimagining what life in vet med can be.

And today I have someone who is a major leader in reimagining veterinary medicine, Dr. Jules Benson. It's also a timely episode because the Veterinary Innovation Summit was about a week prior to our recording the episode, so he was fresh off. The highlight of the year. Jules has a fascinating career path, , and it's an example of

how broad a veterinarian's impact can be. From his early days in vet school with mentors, planting seeds of possibility to growing pet insurance companies to leading data and strategy. [00:01:00] He's built a career that blends science, creativity, and business, all in the service of veterinary medicine and the people and animals it touches.

Today he's the chair of the Veterinary Innovation Council and has his own consulting business. Dr. Jules contributed some insights in our mini future predicting series back in January. So I'll link that episode in the show notes. But in this episode, you'll hear how Dr.

Jules has navigated unexpected pivots, why innovation matters for the future of the profession, and how thinking differently about your career and veterinary medicine can open new doors for impact. So let's get to the conversation with Dr. Jules Benson.

 when did you know you were interested in veterinary medicine?

Jules Benson: , I was not one of the, one of the, the many who say I was five and I knew I wanted to do this. I think always taught at school. I really loved the humanities side of things and the English and English literature side of things. And then in the UK you get at 16, you get to [00:02:00] the end of kind of the standard school journey and you get to choose then.

To stratify your subjects. So you get to choose basically four main subjects to choose from, from 16 to 18. And so I was at that choice of like, do I go with that, you know, more humanities artsy business side, or do I try and go science? So I went full science, you know, maths, physics, chemistry. , And , , when I was 18, when I finished that as part of my education, , I had a place to read, , Marine Zoology. , For undergraduate. And so then I took a gap year and I went and worked in Northern Africa with a, a wildlife project. and it was there working, , with , the bedwin and some of the indigenous, uh, tribes out there and working with their wildlife and working in, in concert with a medical student who was doing the human side.

And like I was working on the veterinary side. And to me, I just never considered it before. This kind of confluence of both science and art. Like, and we always talk about the art of veterinary medicine. I think it was just the element of like, okay, this actually seems like it makes a lot of sense for where my interests lie.

So from [00:03:00] there I was able to get into a kind of a graduation program because I didn't have any experience. I hadn't worked in a vet clinic or worked on a farm my whole life. And so Liverpool University said, Hey, if you go and do , this extra course, it's a one for a university. We'll let you in next year.

And so this was a year of, you know, working on, on dairy farms and with beef cattle and showing cows in hand at the, the Royal Re Show and just like really like rich experiences like working with pigs, which I, I still enjoy in, in my career. Later. I got to work with a lot of pig people. That sounds weird.

I got a lot of with a lot of swine colleagues and , I really enjoy. Data behind, like the large animal mentality and also just the pragmatism, a lot of those folks. which when you get into companion and equine may be, that can be a lot more, there's a lot more, you know, not sensitivity, but there's a lot more touch points.

Whereas I think with large animal, it can feel, um, uh, I think there's, a lot more, you know, comradeship around how do we do this together as a, you know, from a, from a herd point of [00:04:00] view. So I went off already, went off on several different tangents in the. 

Megan Sprinkle: Well, and that's such a, a good call out 'cause I, I've done several interviews recently with bovine practitioners and we've talked about that and both on the human side of things, it's very much a team effort. With the herd mentality. And I wanna come back to that 'cause I love that you got this.

Wide range of experience early on before actually getting into the vet education side of things. But I know because technology is such a key point in your interest and your path throughout as well, that technology was also an interest early on and, and I think you told me that you built your first computer at age 15.

So do you mind sharing a little bit about how you got interested in technology and, and maybe how that kind of stuck with you?

Jules Benson: Yeah, I think it's just a nerdy thing. I think it was just the way my brain works. So like I think, you know, you have like maths people and non-math people and I think I was always a maths person, so like that logic always made sense to me. [00:05:00] And I think computing to me was just an extension of that. So , it's funny, it was a, it was working in a computer store, like from, you know, I think from age like 14 to 17, in the town I grew up in. And that was kind of born out of video games. That was an interesting video games. And then it just kind of developed into like, oh, these actually the, the computing side and the personal computing side, this. Like, you know, I, I, I pretty dodged my first computer to, to age myself was a 4 86 SX 25, which is, you know, at this point our phones are probably 50 times more capable than what that computer was.

But it certainly got me interested in technology side. So all through my career, it's always been, it's, you know, I need help fixing my keyboard or whether it's, you know, let's understand more about how, you know, computer networks, , work or how, you know, software integrates. Um, I've been able to keep a, a level of. Being that interpreter between technology and business, which has been super helpful for my career.

Megan Sprinkle: Oh yeah, because there's such a gap of understanding

Jules Benson: Yeah,

Megan Sprinkle: on the science side [00:06:00] sometimes. , So I, I guess when going back to as you were getting into vet school, you had this really unique experience

Jules Benson: I,

Megan Sprinkle: seeing different animals. It sounds like you were enjoying all aspects. Did you yet start to form what you thought your, you know, being a veterinarian would look like?

Did that kind of change over your education? How did that go?

Jules Benson: Um, it was interesting, right? So I think the, the first three years in the UK are preclinical, so you, you know, you're learning your, biochemistry and your pharmacology and your anatomy and all those things. and I think there's just so much focus on, it's just a broad brush, right? , At that point, there's, there's no real spec species specific, like we're learning all the things and is there an emphasis on campaign animal?

Uh, but it wasn't until I got to the third year, and in the UK you don't have to do undergraduate, right? Your, your vet degree is five years at, in most schools, six years in, in others. But , you don't have to do an undergraduate degree. So you can do this thing called intercalation, right? So in the middle of your veterinary degree you can interate it an additional bachelor's degree.

So you've got enough grounding in [00:07:00] whatever those hard sciences are to say, okay, you can do another science degree in a year where it would usually take three years. So, , I was the first intake year of a new degree that was started by my, my professor and mentor, , Malcolm Bennett, which was veterinary conservation medicine. So this was a, study specific to, you know, meta populations, breeding genetics, like just , these areas I found fascinating. And I think to me, one of the things I took from that, I was just talking to somebody about this the other day when we talk about, I think we're very good at talking tactically in veterinary medicine.

We're very good at solving problems. so I went to Professor Bennett and you know, one of the things that that really stuck with me was we're talking about doing, you know, conservation work. And he said, you know, there's this romanticism of like leaning out the helicopter and darting a rhino or something.

And it's like, and of course like , that is part of this work, but it's also purely technical. Like you could train somebody to do that job and, and train 'em to do it very well. You don't have to be a veterinarian, the impact you can have with your degree and your experience in a boardroom somewhere. [00:08:00] to actually, you know, conserve habitat or to work at the political level or to have a, greater view on, you know, , how diseases spread on the epidemiology of things. Like, to me, that was just such an enormous impact of saying like, oh, like we actually have a bigger responsibility even if we enjoy, and it, I think, look at it in the clinic, right?

The things like, why am I placing a catheter? like, 'cause I enjoy the technical aspect of that and it's, and it's something that doesn't require my full brain. I think there's always that element of like, if, if we have capabilities to do the next task up the tree, how do we get to that? And I, that was, that to me was just such an insight into we should always be striving to, to practice the top of our capability and then bringing up everyone else below us to to, to fill in those tasks.

Megan Sprinkle: I don't think people realize, like, and again, the reason for this podcast is to show, the opportunities and, you know, the way you're presenting it, almost the responsibility for, people in veterinary medicine and, and how you can live that out in so many different ways.

[00:09:00] So yeah, to get that. Perspective so early on, I, I am sure that helped kind of open up the possibilities for yourself.

Jules Benson: Well, and it was only by stepping outside of pure 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah.

Jules Benson: medicine. This was in this degree, and I think , this was Malcolm's like, , this was his job to crack people's brains open and to change them a little bit. And, , if he got, you know, two people out of eight every year, , who felt like, you know, he, he changed their mindset.

I think that was good for him. And again, our, our intake of eight people, ev I think everybody went off and did super interesting things, , I see this as a transformative, you know, experience for so many of us. But I think coming out of that and then going back into veterinary medicine, I think it really helped me understand, do enjoy the practice veterinary medicine, but I also knew I probably didn't want to be in it forever, that I always had a, , what is the next thing I should or could be doing , with , the skills and the capability that we have. , And that's, that's again, not to diminish practice. , I thoroughly enjoyed my time at practice and we can talk about that.

I was very lucky in where I landed. But I think just saying if you, if you [00:10:00] have that interest and if you have that spark to say. and again, this could happen within the practice. Like if you wanna, if you want to grow into a practice and through ownership or into specialty or whatever else, I think those, those paths are also amazing. But I think if you have the interest outside of that, , I think , there used to be more places you could go. I think things have shut down a little bit now as, as, as you probably your experience as well, Megan. But , we can certainly talk about that as well.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I, I think things are shifting,

Jules Benson: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: and, um, I, I've always been a very positive person in this area, so I, I will remain positive because I, I think as the future changes. Opportunities change. , So that growth mindset, you know, always looking for, , what is the next thing that I can contribute to and grow myself as well is a, is a good mindset.

Um, now as you were starting and you talked about getting into practice, did you feel like having that foundation of working in a, in a general [00:11:00] practice was a good place to start? Or, or why did you decide to go that direction with this kind of planted?

Jules Benson: Well, so there was, there's a gap there. So between graduating vet school and, coming to the US, so my, at the time I met my ex-wife and, you know, my third year. And then when I graduated, I came over here, but of course at Liverpool was not a BMA accredited, so I had to take not just Natalie, which we all had to take, but also the, the CFEG, the Educational Commission for Foreign Undergraduates Exam, which is. just talking to somebody at the innovation summit about this, like just the, brutality of this exam is a three and a half day practical exam across, you know, multiple disciplines. And a friend of mine now in VITs, the exams in, in Las Vegas. , But that was a, there was a long waiting list for that, and it was 6,000 plus dollars when I did it, and I'm sure it's more now. , And so for, for two summers, um, I did landscaping in, , in suburban, , Philadelphia. And I worked, , as a shipping manager for a. A company , that shipped a lot of fabric and, and cut fabric, [00:12:00] which was, so, it was a very interesting, as a, as someone who had that education level to come in and to be, you know, um, frankly, you know, working with, , immigrant labor and just to kind of see, it's funny, discover from the UK where we, we talk about, we have such a distinct class system and the, and the us you know, not to get political, but the US has always said that, you know, that it hasn't, but just to see. How people treat, you know, manual laborers and just like, it was a really interesting introduction. And, and not that it was the same, like many people were very, very kind. Some people were less so, but it was a very interesting introduction into kind of American life. So then, yes, I managed to, to land a place in a, a practice, , just outside Philadelphia, so in Doylestown, Pennsylvania. and it was a phenomenal practice. I was so lucky, honestly. Uh, I heard people talk, you know, kind of had nightmare experiences as a new graduate where, You know, and , I had interviews like this where somebody literally told me, you know, my goal is to go out and, and play on my boat and you are boat fuel.

Like, that was what I was told by, by a practitioner. [00:13:00] And I was like, okay, this sounds like a warm and fuzzy place. , But the practice I ended up in was fantastic. The, the two owners couldn't have been more generous with their time and their mentorship. , And within the first year, like, 'cause I, even heard things in, in general practice that. lot of, , new grads weren't able to do surgery because the, the owners and the, the senior associates wanted to do that themselves 'cause they enjoyed it. And so that, that was, you know, experience of people I worked with. , Within the first year I was doing, you know, uh, perineal urostomies and I was doing crucial ligament repairs and like, they were just, and it was, didn't know it at the time, but they were very spectrum of care as well.

Like my first amputation. It was a dog that would've been euthanized and the onus said, Hey, I've got two, two associates who've never done an amputation. We'll do it for $500 and just know that, that that's the situation. And like, and they the amputation and he was there in the next room. So there was never really any risk, but it was, it was a great experience.

And, and you know, Mary Landis and I, the other veterinarian, which is like, is so fantastic for, for us to be able to have this experience and to be able to solve a problem for a pet family as well. So even [00:14:00] before I got into the whole, you know, accessibility and spectrum of care. practice, we're really living that life of like, how do we provide a solution that makes sense for the most people at the right time?

Megan Sprinkle: Oh, wow. And , it was a busy, big practice too, right? I think I, I saw that it was like eight doctors.

Jules Benson: Yeah, I think so. It was a mixture of full-time associates and part-time

Megan Sprinkle: Okay.

Jules Benson: But I think that was also helpful in just that some of the, even some of the part-time associates had such , a good different perspective. And I think working with that many different associates, you really get to understand. How people practice differently, which again, from a, from a perspective and from a career point of view, for me, has been really instrumental. , 'Cause I think the, the practice that allowed people to kind of their own way within the protocols, they were set protocols, you know, obviously, you know, vaccination protocols and, and you know, , blood work and everything else. But within your ability to practice yourself, they were pretty like, okay, you do the things that you, you think you need to do. Which, you know, we, we hear a lot of stories about that at the moment. That that's not necessarily how people are [00:15:00] able to practice medicine in some settings. , But it was just a fantastic, I mean, again, especially from, and I love doing surgery.

I really enjoyed that element of the job to be able to do complex surgery and dental procedures. You know, that early in my career was, was really formative for me.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Now I saw that just a couple years after you started, you, you went to part-time because it, it sounds like you got an opportunity with pet plan, a pet insurance group. So I mean, that's, that's fairly quick out, out of vet school. So how did that happen?

Jules Benson: Uh, it was interesting. So it was actually when I was, when I didn't have my license, , I'd started working, um, just, and I kind of towards a recruiter and said, Hey, I don't have my license, but anything that is veterinary related, I could do from an advisory point of view. And so they, they connected me to the, the founding partners of Petplan, I'd met with them and, and over the years, and this is, now my understanding of how startups go. It was all like, we're gonna launch in April, we're gonna launch in August, we're gonna launch in December. And of course it just keeps going on. , And again, [00:16:00] the insurance is even more complicated 'cause they're so highly regulated. , So it really was three years later, Hey, we think we have a role. , And so to me I was like, okay, I'm really enjoying practice. And I think there was, there were opportunities, you know, down the road with the practice, but I also kind of came back to the element of like, I don't think I want to do this forever.

Like, I, I thoroughly enjoyed my time in practice. I really enjoyed. You know, , we all have that 95% of the clients are amazing. I, I would almost say it's like 95% of the clients are amazing and 5% were really amazing. Like, just like you, you know, you made lifelong friendships and, you know, it was great going to part-time because then you got to see basically half your appointments with people that you loved and just got to see those pets throughout their lifetimes, which is also great. , But the, uh, yeah, the, the insurance thing, , the moving into corporate. Which at that time, I didn't really know what that meant. I just knew that this was an opportunity to do something else. , And so I think it was one of the, I think it was the employee number eight or nine, , when I joined, , over eight years.

We grew that to 160 people, I think. And so that was just a, , a wealth of experience , and for [00:17:00] me even more on the technology side, being able to head, you know, technology transformation projects. , Being able to run a team of, of actuarial analytic staff, being involved in the marketing and the, the spokesperson stuff.

So it's just like such a, a rich array of things that you get to do. being a startup, you know, um, there was a lot of fires. So , there wasn't always a plan. But , there was always something interesting to do. And again, just the people that you work with, startup life is very much, you're in the trenches and you know, the, the reason that you fight is because of the people alongside you, not necessarily always, for the higher cause.

Right. , And my, my wife and I like, we, we worked together there as well. We didn't actually meet at PET Plan, but we worked together for a long time. And many of the people that I've worked with since, like, we've been coming back to the same teams because you build those, you know, really deep bonds of like not just, you know, really enjoying that person, but also just working together well.

So I, I have people that I've worked with over three or four jobs now because there's just that gravity of bringing people back together again.

Megan Sprinkle: [00:18:00] That is a really lucky situation, , to be able to find those types of people. And, I, I think I feel that now. 'cause my new role feels very similar. Like the, the people that I'm working with are just amazing and I, , the importance of finding.

, Those good colleagues to kind of keep and surround yourself with, I think is really important for, you know, job satisfaction, keeping you, you going despite the fires and, and I think it does take a certain person to be able to be in that type of role and in a startup role, when you have a lot of hats, you have, like you said, lots of fires.

There's not always a. I'm very likely not a, a plan. You are the plan, you're creating the plan as you're flying the plane kind of thing. , But during that time, did your mentor from your schooling come back to you when you were , thinking about the impact that you were having in your role?

Jules Benson: it's interesting. So I actually, uh, [00:19:00] I, I, I went back to the uk, , fairly regularly, as part of my role at Pep Plan and then, uh, uh, my subsequent role in the agency, uh, not the CIA, uh, a different agency, uh, just to clarify. And, uh, and I got to see Malcolm a couple of times and, think it was super interesting to him to see, and, and again, the, the seeing, you know, some of my other classmates on Facebook like, lot of us have gone on to do weird things. , And even within our, our profession, even those who are staying strictly within the practice space have gone on to do different variations, whether it's peripatetic, you know, work or whether it's setting up agencies within veterinary medicine. So, like, again, I think that mindset, I, I hope he, I haven't talked to Malcolm for a, for a couple of years, but I, I'd be interested to maybe sit down with him sometime and kind of pick his brain on, Whether he feels like he had that impact. 'cause I think we all look back and say, yeah, that this was a absolutely a, a turning point or a tipping point in our careers and maybe, maybe we didn't tell him that clearly [00:20:00] enough. 

Megan Sprinkle: I think we often don't tell the people, like, especially the, our teachers, uh, enough how, how much impact they have. But yeah, teachers can be such a huge part of our, our lives and, and definitely our career journeys for sure.

Jules Benson: Yeah, yeah,

Megan Sprinkle: Now a lot of startups, their goals are to sell , and move on, but , how did that work out for you with Petplan and then, , going into your next position?

Jules Benson: it's a little different, so,

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah.

Jules Benson: PetPlan, like the ownership did evolve over time, but you also, with insurance, you, you're often not underwriting the policy. , The company who sells the, the policy, unless it's a nationwide, you know, you don't always write on the same paper if you like.

So , we went through three or four different underwriters at my time, at pep plan. And so that was always an interesting situation of like, you know, product evolution and relationship evolution and changing to. Maybe more corporate type, you know, rigor and regulation, which as you [00:21:00] grow is inevitable.

And I think that for me was where things started to maybe get less interesting, , was , as the organization grows, the number of hats, you know, that you wear by necessity must become fewer, and so your, your role becomes more narrow and you get more depth within that role. But to me it was like, okay, , I feel like I'm missing that breadth. And so, , I mean, eight years, uh, there's not, there's not that many of us these days. You get to work somewhere for eight years and I forget how long that was. Um, but we, we achieved an immense amount. And again, I think it's more , my view of achievement is. What did we as a team do?

, Not what was the achievement that I did or the company did, but like, just looking at the, at the boulders that no one will ever know about, that we moved out of the way through sheer determination and teamwork. And, you know, you talked before about, , the forged in fire aspect of some of those relationships.

Like, you know, , we still have text threads from, from people in those days. And , so Steve Shell, uh, who many of you will know, like Steve Shell and I worked together during that time at PetPlan. And, you know, every time [00:22:00] Steve and I see each other (A), you know, it's great to see him, , and not even a glory days mentality.

Just say like, like, remember what we went through? Like, let's, let's relive, relive some of that. So it's al it's, it's always, and, and it, as I said, I still get to work with, with some of the people that I worked with at PetPlan as well. And so you, it is, you don't even talk about it anymore, but it's just a shared bond, which is amazing.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, well that's another reminder too, that this profession is very small and so you never know when you'll work with somebody again. So always, you know, be your best human being.

Jules Benson: Yeah, I think that's the, yes, a hundred percent. I think, uh, it's, it's easy to, I think it's easy to read that sometimes as as compromise yourself. , But I think you can, be kind and be direct at the same time. , And I think I, I don't always do the best job of that, I would say, but I think, . Being a genuine human being and, you know, , trying to ensure that it's not just , a zero sum game and that you are, you know, benefiting whoever you work with at the same time. if that's not an instinct that you have, like, I think [00:23:00] that's a really important thing to ensure that, that, uh, kind of people remember .

Megan Sprinkle: Definitely. And I guess before I gloss over it, you also, it, it looks like you, you started to join the Pennsylvania VMA too and get involved with some organized medicine as well, which I always think is a unique perspective, is to understand that side of it. Um, and I think you worked with them for quite a while, so.

Jules Benson: yeah, yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: Anything that stands out, you know, kind of working with them.

Jules Benson: No, I mean, just the people. Again, I think,, it was helpful for me. I mean, I, I'd never been on a board. I didn't know what Robert's rules were. I didn't really understand that process. So even, even just from a purely t echnical point of view. It's been super helpful going forward, just like having, you know, being able to take a backseat for a couple of years and understand how these things work. , But similarly, the exposure to so many different types of people, , whether it's, practice owners, whether it's, , people in the reg side, whether it's understanding the , state legislature a little bit better. , And again, it was, this was very much a people driven as, as veterinary medicine is, is a people and relationship [00:24:00] driven organization. And so even just at AVMA seeing, you know, Charlene Wandzilak, who used to be the executive director and is now at Heart and Paw in a senior role, like it is just like, again, just, just great, you know, forged in fire, you know, relationships and just so good to see people. And, and as you said, people keep rotating around.

You'll, you'll always see those people.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know you went to circa after that, and , in the middle of, of that was when the Veterinary Innovation Summit started. I think if I have my dates right,

Jules Benson: yes.

Megan Sprinkle: and if you were not at the first, you were at one of the earlier

Jules Benson: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: one. Okay. So you.

Jules Benson: No, never. Never quite cool enough to be right there at the beginning, but yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: That's pretty close. Pretty close. , Especially when it was started at Texas and you were over, you know, in, in Philadelphia. So, you know, I think that's fair.

Jules Benson: I, I definitely, I definitely flew to the wrong airport at one point. I think you were supposed to fly into Houston and I flew into Dallas, or there was something I, and I had a three hour drive. So [00:25:00] lessons,

Megan Sprinkle: Texas is big. If you miss it, you miss it.

Jules Benson: a good job. It wasn't Galveston or something. Yeah, absolutely.

Uh, no, it was, uh, yeah, the innovation Summit. Um, yeah. Circa, uh, circa healthcare. I mean, just start there like, um. That was also based on relationships. So Steve Kirton, , the founder and and president there, , another Brit, and we just knew each other through working together a little bit at, , PetPlan, we developed a, you know, a friendship and, , as I was kind of looking around to see what the next thing was like, it happened that , the chief veterinary officer role at, circa was kind of open.

And so we kinda had a conversation and I was very open and said, like, I, , I don't know the work you do. Like I, I know what I've done here. I don't know marketing and strategy well. , And he's like, well, you know, I, I have faith that you will, learn what you need to learn, and I give, , a huge amount of, credit to my time at Circa for, really helping to bring together.

'cause I think what I got from Petplan was so much experience of like, these are the things that happen. These are the business problems that exist, these are the ways you can address them. But I don't think my role was fully strategic there. [00:26:00] I don't think I really understood what that meant, honestly, while I was at Petplan.

Like it was just like. Okay. We, we have a plan. We know what our revenue numbers are, we know what the fires are, let's just go and do stuff. , And really that was, you know, my level of maturity at the time. But moving into, circa where you are working with, you know, large pharmaceutical companies and, uh, and nutrition companies and non-profits, and just this diversity across, met small animals, swine, cattle, it just, it was for me, it was just such an education and such a great experience. , Again, working with more people. There's, there's clients that we worked with there that I still have really good relationships with now, which, you know, that is very much the agency kind of model is that , you accidentally build, should accidentally build personal relationships and not just have them feel like commercial relationships.

I think that's, you know, super important and in the agency world. , But yeah, just to, to become much more of a strategic thinker. , And that's, you know. Not to jump ahead, but that's a lot of the work I do now is helping organizations develop their, you know, whether it's their positioning or their strategy or the strategic [00:27:00] planning or brand planning. , It comes out of experience and it, I think it also comes back down to that mindset. I think, I think melting that creativity with the logical, , I think the folks that , I've ended up working with a lot, we talk about that a lot and I, and I don't know how much of that is innate versus learned.

There's an element of both, but I think there's not that many people who have, I think the ability to, to fully have a, good creative side where they're good writers, you know, they're good at, at , creative thinking. And melting that with the logic of. What are our goals and how do we achieve this and how do we break that down? You know, how do, how do we eat this elephant one bite at a time? Like where do you start with that? So I think that, I think it's a combination of innate talent and skill building, but there's only a few people I've met who I feel like, oh, you get it straight away. , And I think, I think it's rare across our, not just our industry, but , as I've kind of been out in the world and worked at multinational corporations and, , places without veterinary medicine in them. I don't think it's just rare in veterinary medicine. I think it's rare in the world.

Megan Sprinkle: It, it's an [00:28:00] interesting perspective but, but I mean, I just had a conversation with somebody about. Leveraging those types of ways of thinking and skillset in the veterinary setting, in a clinical setting where you've got a patient, you've got a client that's sitting in front of you with a unique need and a set of situations

Jules Benson: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: you know, going back to, a spectrum of care or whatever, you know.

We wanna call that now, is that it requires that creativity, it requires that ability to think about options and things and, and as you're talking, I'm just thinking, wow, what a unique set of skills that you have and perspective that yes, you are a veterinarian, you understand the clinical side, but you're able to understand all these other really key aspects of just success in general for businesses o f any type, and especially the marketing side, like the, you know, an ad agency and marketing. There's so much creativity to it, and I think that's [00:29:00] why I fell in love with it too, was when I realized that marketing was, were two things. It was.

Psychology, which I find fascinating

Jules Benson: Yeah, yeah,

Megan Sprinkle: and creativity. It, it really is that creative side of your brain. And I think no matter who you are, I think , most people have some need for creativity

Jules Benson: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: and, and to be able to, . Have space to kind of develop that I, I think, is really fun and especially in an area that you're so interested in and can again, , make a big difference in, in some of these decision making kind of worlds of, of business.

Jules Benson: well, and we'll, we'll talk about the innovation summit stuff later, but the, I just wrote a piece for today's opening business a couple of months ago, which was kind of talking about the iron triangle of healthcare. So cost, quality, access, like, if we change one of those things, if we change what something costs, we reduce the access to it, , and the quality may get better because it costs more.

Like those things are, you know, again, we can talk about how we measure quality at some point as well. But as you look at veterinary [00:30:00] practices, and I, I've been, I spent a lot of time recently looking at website practices and I'm like, , based on this, I don't know where you stand on this go. And I think it's because we as a profession, we're like. We're so trapped, mostly so trapped in like, we wanna deliver the high, highest quality care. And it's like, okay, that's, that's great. And that is certainly , a great medical option. But when we talk about accessibility of care, especially in today's world where, you know, the cost of care has increased so dramatically over the past 10 years, and that affects the access so much. , What are you presenting yourself as a practice? If you have a practice down, and this is just a basic marketing thing as well, like how, how are you differentiating yourself from practice down the road? Is it just that you're more friendly? Okay, well the other guys can get more friendly. Like what is the, what is the thing that you do that nobody else does? And a lot of the time that means saying no to things. Like , my biggest belief is that strategy is about saying no. Like, you know, if you have a strategy , for your year and someone comes along and says, I wanna do this great thing with you. If that doesn't fit into your strategy, you better have a really good reason why you're gonna bring that in, because you've set a plan and you've said, this is our goal for a reason. [00:31:00] And so I, think , the practice is a really good microcosm of how do you bring strategy and like that tactical execution together. And as an owner operator, I think it's immensely difficult because , going back to the catheter example earlier, the temptation is always to, . Put out that fire, which in this case is a pet that is suffering or a family that's in need.

And so it's always a noble thing , to not step back, but to get involved in the details. And I think the hardest thing that Peter Weinstein talks about this is, , is working on the business, not in the business. So I think it's a real challenge and think it's one of those things where, you know, and I've talked to a lot of owners recently, and I think the owners who have the most discipline around saying. I know that I need those hours every week to sit back and say, what is my strategy? How am I thinking about my cogs? How am I thinking about, you know, our capacity by adding another doctor? How am I thinking about my differentiation in the local marketplace? What are the services I can and should offer that change that?

So , I totally agree with you. I think it's a really hard thing to bring together, and especially when we have all these skills that are [00:32:00] immediately gratifying, it comes, it does come back down to immediate. I mean, I love surgery because it's so immediately gratifying of like, , I fixed this thing.

And , internal medicine people are like, oh no, I have no interest in, in following this thing for a thousand years. , I want that immediate gratification. And so I get it and I think it's a really hard, uh, discipline issue to step back and say, I need to not do this. I need to find someone who's gonna do this for me, and I can spend my time on the things that that. I have the capability or the, the perspective for the others don't.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, perspective. And there's, I think, element of ownership too, right? Like, um, yeah. You have that ownership, which causes you to have the responsibility, but hopefully the passion behind it too, because again, the responsibility of taking care of everybody within that ecosystem and everything from the pet to the client, to your team, you know, is, is really special and deserves the time to step back and, and look at those things.

Jules Benson: Yeah, . The prioritization is hard. It's, and again, this is, this is not a knock on anyone who's doing this on a day to day [00:33:00] basis, which I'm not currently. , It's admirable to watch practitioners. Who can say, , I don't wanna be at this management level because there, there's the Peter principle as well, right?

, There's the element of like, I've been elevated within my practice to a medical director and it comes with a bunch of stuff I didn't want. You know, , can I step back down and go back into this? Or does that feel like that's gonna hurt my career? And I think those are really valid questions, but I think if you're interested in leadership and you're interested in that challenge, there's an element of discipline there to say, I need to take myself out of the day to day. And if I'm not in a position where that's happening, what do I need to do to change that? If that's changing practice, if that's, you know, looking at my ownership structure, if that's looking at my staffing structure, I think those are the hard questions we can ask ourselves.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and that's a good point. Not everybody enjoys that parts of it either.

Jules Benson: and,

Megan Sprinkle: So.

Jules Benson: Yeah. I,

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. So one is, is that an element that is. It is , an evil, , of the job that you still enjoy the overall job, or is it a sign that maybe that isn't your position, [00:34:00] that, you know, growth , and career trajectory is, is different in a different direction?

And I think sometimes people think that is the only direction. Or it's, do I get degraded back down? Like I, I hate, I don't want people to think it that way because I, I disagree. I think there's,

Jules Benson: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: other opportunities to, to grow and, and develop yourself. Um, but yeah, I think sometimes we make that look like that is the only, only way.

Jules Benson: A hundred percent. Yeah. , I've seen , several people come out of industry and go back into owning a practice just because things make more sense and are more predictable and controllable and your efforts, you know, you can see the impact that you're having. Whereas I think when you sit in a large organization, it can often be so hard to feel. That you're making, not least because you're so removed often from the, from the end user, from the pet family, , but also because you are, you are serving a greater purpose, right?

, Ultimately if you work for a corporation, , if it's a for-profit corporation, , there's a guiding principle behind that. So I think if you, if you move back into practice, especially you're an [00:35:00] independent practice, , you guys have a lot more control over what you do.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and I, I think again, it's, it's, we don't have to look at, at it as going backwards, right? You take what you learn and you.

Jules Benson: a hundred

Megan Sprinkle: Move it forward. You can go and apply that to the next step.

Taking what you've learned forward and for you as well, you've had all this experience and then you get an opportunity to work at Nationwide, , so what was. That like moving into , I mean, you've already had a background in insurance, so is this like deja?

Jules Benson: it wasn't intentional. It's funny. So, um, uh, I don't know if you, if you know Dr. Carol McConnell, who was my predecessor of Nationwide, um, , she was very active in the VBMA. She was , an early sponsor of the multicultural VMA. She's just, she's such a champion for, I think, individual veterinarians of the profession at large. , So she's, an enormous mentor and just such a, , a staward of the profession. So can never say enough good things about Carol. So Carol was looking , to retire, , super [00:36:00] lucky. , she's super smart and, and savvy and so she retired at a, a very young age, comparatively. . And, , she was looking for someone to, to replace her nationwide.

And I think, , I wasn't looking to get back into insurance specifically, but I was also, my goal was always to use data to, to help improve the lives of, of, you know, all the stakeholders, pets, pet families and veterinary healthcare teams. And as like, okay, that's the largest insurer, you know, in the US and they probably have some data I can play with and I think I can make a strategic, you know, plan around why we should be doing better work with this. . And, Carol and I , we're so aligned on so many things, but as our backgrounds and skill sets were so different, and I think kind of me bringing that, that data oriented and technology oriented mindset with me, , I think she saw as a huge opportunity for the organization.

So, , I was fortunate to get the role there. As always going into a new role. The first 12 or 18 months is trying to kind of get your feet under you, trying to understand the politics. And of course, this happened right at the beginning of COVID. So I moved to, there's a, there's a

Megan Sprinkle: Right.

Jules Benson: not terrible but funny story, , about [00:37:00] me living in a trailer in someone's driveway. , And this was again, , very kind of, of Carol and her husband, Eric lend me this trailer that he used to use for his car, but I'm living in this person's driveway. , In November of two, of 2019, I guess, right? So I wanted to be on the ground and my wife and I had every, plan to move there, but , she was teaching at Temple and Philly at the time, and so couldn't move until April or May the next year. And so I'm like, okay, now I want to get into it. I want to make sure that my face is seen, that I'm not just a remote worker, I wanna get into the culture. So I started live in this trailer Then COVID happened. And so I'm stuck in this trailer, uh, 24 7 in this metal box. And, and we had the, the rainiest February on record, I think , for California.

And it was just this thundering rain on this. So it was like, it was one of those things where it's like. I don't know if I'm gonna make it, if my brain is gonna get through this process. Like, not that it was a huge hardship, but just like you're so used to human interaction. , And so, , we moved eventually to California.

Uh, just before recording we were talking about your recent move [00:38:00] and it's, and it's a thing. Um, but we moved to California in April or May, and I never went into the office again pretty much because we had COVID and then we, we went fully remote. So , moved to Orange County., For this role, um, as I said. Uh, 12 months, 18 months, getting my feet underneath me, getting the, the lay of the land. And then we started to make some, some really good progress on using the nationwide data to publish white papers and to create, , digital platforms, and to use the data in meaningful and interesting ways and to start pet health programs around population health management.

And so just really the things I'd had in my mind from Petplan days, having the opportunity to , realize these things and to introduce them into a, an organization in a strategic manner. know, we're talking about, you know, the value of our data and how do we enrich our data, how do we do a better job?

, and in that time kind of really, you know, wetting my appetite for greater data strategies. So, you know, meeting awesome folks in the industry, like we already talked about John Lustgarten, and he's just such a, a huge, , force. , And then hiring the [00:39:00] right people, like being able to, I didn't have a huge team when I started, but being able to go out and define roles and hire people. So my longtime collaborator who, who, you know, Dr. Emily Tincher, that's become, , an enormous, , powerhouse partnership and, and certainly a force multiplier where I think, , we have, so we certainly have many, , common skill sets.

We also bring different things to the equation. So, even after, you know, leaving nationwide, continuing to write and collaborate with Emily has been great. , The same thing with so many of my team. There's, you know. , three or four of them that I, I still am able to work with in some degree of capacity. , And so just again, the people element of being able to build a team that was just so, I think so capable. You know, , the things that we're able to do with very few resources and on short timelines,

Megan Sprinkle: Yes.

Jules Benson: mostly because we really believed in the work that was, it was a real, you know, you had those halian days of just like. , Everything wasn't going right, but we believed in what we were doing and , the value of the work that we're doing. So in terms of impact, to have people say, , we just, , we're at the Innovation [00:40:00] summit and, , professor Ellen Carlson, , who is at the, Chen Medical School at UMass. , she said, Hey, , my team and I found your white papers, and we were so blown away and we wanted to talk. So , to have people come back three, four years later and say, this is really impactful work and really valuable. , That was the goal. It wasn't to say we're gonna make this huge splash.

It was like, let's create a piece of work that stands, the test of time.

Megan Sprinkle: I, and I think you, you and Emily were both very good. 'cause your work really, it still stands out in my mind when you presented it. And so not only was it practical and useful, you were very good at storytelling with it, like you were able to,

Jules Benson: That's all Emily. That's not me. That's, uh, that's, uh, yeah, that's what we're

Megan Sprinkle: I.

Jules Benson: about. Skill sets. Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: , And she's very good at that. But I, I, again, having impact, a lot of it is understanding these skills of how do we also make it memorable so that people can carry it forward and utilize it and make that impact.

And so shout out to you and Emily for being able to [00:41:00] do that because I think that's why you and Emily and the work that you did stood out. And I, again, I still remember hearing you, . I am sure you, you are like me too. We go to lots of events and conferences and you know, there's only a handful of talks that we probably still remember and , when you guys get up and present, I usually can remember your presentations because you're just very good at doing that.

So, yes. , I love that you were able to bring data and, and again, blend it with practicality and, , that storytelling element of it and, you know.

Jules Benson: which is, and it's marketing, right? I mean, let's face

Megan Sprinkle: Yes.

Jules Benson: we, we, you have, you have to understand what your audience wants and how this solves a problem with them. Otherwise, it's just, otherwise it's academic, which is also interesting to the right audience, but it's not necessarily gonna make the impact that you're looking for.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I like that you made that connection. So yes, it's very good. , And I know that data is, . Still very important to you, and it's things that you're able to bring in , you've been part of the council, but now , you're the chair [00:42:00] of the Veterinary Innovation Council and doing a lot , with data, , also. Because I, I know one of the big things that you've talked about that's important is improving our evidence-based, uh, ability.

And I know that's a hot topic that probably deserves way more than five minutes that we have today. , So maybe we can have you back, but, all the things that you've learned and, and you're now able to be the chair of this really impactful organization that is able to take, you know, all the things that we've talked about, think creatively, , be the people who can move the profession in the direction we want it to be, because change happens, right?

And it's, it would be really nice if, if the people who live it and breathe it and are passionate about it are the ones that are leading that change. And I think that's the kind of the ultimate mission behind the Veterinary Innovation Council. So we're coming off of a recent Veterinary Innovation Summit, which is kind of like the highlight of a lot of people's years.

, Just to kind of wrap up [00:43:00] everything that, you know, you personally have gone through and, and now can start to pour into this organization, what does the Veterinary Innovation Council mean to you? And anything that's especially fresh from the veterinary innovation that comes up to you, if you wanna share that with us too, that kind of makes you excited about going forward?

Jules Benson: All right. I'll try and be succinct. Um.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, that's a big, big question.

Jules Benson: The Innovation Council to me, and the best way I've found to articulate this, and I just shared, , something in this on LinkedIn is, is the concept of the Overton Window. So the Overton window is a political concept that talks about , what is the level of acceptability of an idea within the public sphere. , And it ranges from everywhere, from, , policy through to sensible, through to unthinkable. And so I see the role of the Innovation Council as looking at the outer reach, it's kind of using this amazing brain trust of people we have on the council and saying, what do we think is 95% inevitable in the next five to 10 years?

That really isn't on the radar of many of the people in our [00:44:00] industry that will change their lives in some way. Let's find a way to talk about that. Like, let's find a way to start the conversation if it's not there already. Let's find a way to progress the conversation if it's starting to be talked about. And, , I think the example that I use a lot is, um. When we talked about Spectrum of care. Spectrum of care, , Emily and I were one of many voices at that time who were kind of championing this. And I think, , started to have that conversation. And now pretty much every vest student knows about spectrum of care.

Many practitioners know, and they may not fully understand kind of the intricacies of it. I think that a lot of people think it's just options, but, , I see that , as a massively successful kind of acceleration of a term that's come into our industry over, even over the last five years. And so. , One of the things about the Overton window that the, council accepts and that we should all accept is , if you're on the leading edge of an idea, when the idea is successful, people will not come to you.

Majority of people will not come to you and say, I'm so glad you started that hard conversation three years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago. And I think the way I characterize my LinkedIn post is, there's no cookie , for being early on the train. that's just the belief that the work is important and that you are [00:45:00] making a difference in how this will impact our industry and , our colleagues. So that's how I think about the, the work the Innovation Council does. This year we were super deliberate in saying, okay, what are three or four focus areas that we wanna make sure that we touch on? And there will be published work coming out on that, but also that will shape the innovation summit, which as you said is kind of like the, the jewel and the crown for us on an annual basis.

And so we looked at, , you know, productivity and efficiency in practice. We looked at how does the cost of care, , affecting things at the moment, how do we increase accessibility of. We looked at how is technology changing the way that we can practice across the spectrum of care, which goes into all the things that we talked about, evidence-based medicine, , our ability to contact clients , and connect with them on an individual basis. , and then are there things that we should be looking at from human healthcare? , And I think there was a lot of pushback on that, saying like, well, that those guys suck. Like, why would we look there? And it's like, well, they've also spent billions of dollars looking at why they suck. There's probably some good stuff in there , that we can tease out and say. And so there are so many differences, just us in human healthcare. Like there's, there's no suggestion that we should be [00:46:00] mimicking the things they do, but to hear from, you know, Dave De Brokar, who was one of our speakers who just seems to blow everyone away with his keynote around, , being a patient advocate and, you know, uh, empowering our clients , for us to be more client centric, to understand that if they're gonna use chat GPT, how do we give them the prompts that they should be using and then help them understand, you know, what that means. Like, , let's look at the inevitabilities of how care progresses and make sure that we are playing the right role in that. So one example of like, I think just some of the amazing conversations that we had.

And so I, I'm so sorry you couldn't make it. I'm glad that you, that you moved successfully, but . I think that just the feedback has been phenomenal so far, and just so, so proud of, , of our program committee who helped put this together and, and thankful for NAVC for their help as, as well.

So it's just, it's just an amazing experience. So I, I'm still coming down, I'm still in the criticizing mode of like, well, that could have come better, or this should have been this way, or whatever else. But, overall the feedback has been really good. So I'm, I'm super happy.

Megan Sprinkle: [00:47:00] Yeah, I wanna add maybe just two, two more things. One, one of the neat things about any conference, but especially the Veterinary Innovation Summit, is, you know, the people that come to this particular conference are unique individuals because there's not continuing education.

People are there to

Jules Benson: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: have these conversations to talk and network about these things. And so sometimes the really interesting conversations we're all blown away by you. You guys are amazing at getting these amazing speakers, and so we're blown away by these keynotes, but sometimes the interesting takeaways are those conversations in between.

Jules Benson: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: there anything that comes to your mind that you kind of gathered from those in between conversations? Just from, you know, colleague to colleague?

Jules Benson: Well, so first of all, I think the feedback we got was, was exactly that, , that there is amazing content. And this year especially, I think we had such , a diversity of people on stage talking that people immediately left the room and then went outside and like just had that conversation.

, And [00:48:00] we tried to do a really good job this year of making sure the people who hadn't been before, you know, felt welcome and that they felt like that there was, this was a place for them. I, I started out, , in the initial address by quoting one of our previous speakers, Susanna Fox, who said that, you know, innovation can be lonely. And, the whole point behind the innovation summit and the Innovation Council is like you've got your bunch of weirdos, like whatever weird idea you have, you'll find someone at the Innovation summit who shares that, that , even if you can't collaborate with them, just sharing that and just getting that encouragement or getting that tweak to the thing that you were doing. That helps you get to the next step? Um, no. I, I a hundred percent agree. It's absolutely the people that make it special. And we heard the same thing this year that it, it was people who. There are people from corporations who, and we all know that, that, that everyone's budgets are struggling at the moment.

There are many people that made a point of coming up and saying, I paid for this on my own because I wanted to be here 'cause I so value what I get from this. So, , there's an intimacy to the Veterinary Innovation Summit, should I say That is special. And I don't think the goal is to grow it into an enormous conference. [00:49:00] But I think we would encourage anyone who is, , the kind of the, banner that we have this year is like calling all change makers. And I do think , that is an element of what we see. That, that we are on the edge of the Overton window in whatever area we're in. And we're asking people to say, okay, do you feel the same way? And how do we get to the next step? How do we get from an unthinkable to radical? How do we get from radical to sensible? Like, how do we make those leaps?

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I think it's a, good call to people , to leave, to think about that and, and how they might be able , to implement that wherever they may be. , 'Cause we need that in every, in every. Point of veterinary medicine. , We need people to be thinking in that way. So the last question I always like to ask people before I end is, , what is something that you are really grateful for?

? 

Jules Benson: Uh, I mean the, the mentorship on the team, , I think so much of, , my career has been luck, , but , I think it's happened because of the relationships I built along the way. I mean, , , I'm a very blue collar background, but I was very lucky in that I grew up in a country where my education was largely paid for. , [00:50:00] so that's the thing to be enormously grateful for. but I look at , the friendships and the partnerships I've made along the way, and I just, there's no possible way that I could be where I am today without so many of those.

Megan Sprinkle: If you'd like to keep exploring today's topics, , I will link resources from the Veterinary Innovation Council, along with ways to connect with Dr. Jules Benson in the show notes. A few takeaways to carry with you. Veterinarians make an impact in the clinic, but the possibilities for influence across business data innovation are wide open.

Curiosity and creativity are essential for shaping the future of our profession. And thinking differently about your own career can open doors to meaningful impact. You might not have explored quite yet . A special thank you to Dr. Kelly Cooper for supporting the podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please follow the podcast, leave a review, and share it with a colleague.

It's the best way to help more people discover inspiring voices in veterinary medicine, and as always, [00:51:00] keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life.