Vet Tech Leads Future of Veterinary Nutrition (Georgia Woods-Lee)

Today, veterinary technician careers hold endless possibilities, and today’s guest shows just how impactful they can be.

In this episode of Vet Life Reimagined, Dr. Megan Sprinkle speaks with Georgia Woods-Lee, BSc (Hons), RVN, CertCFVHNut, VTS (Nutrition), who runs one of the longest-running and most successful veterinary weight management clinics at the University of Liverpool. Georgia is also a textbook author, international speaker, and leader in veterinary nutrition, shaping how the profession understands and tackles obesity in pets.

Georgia shares her inspiring career journey from stumbling into vet med to building a global reputation in nutrition. She also offers powerful advice for veterinary professionals everywhere: “You are not a tree. You can move.” And, “Feel the fear, and do it anyway.”

Resources:

• Video episode on YouTube
• Veterinary weight loss clinic at the University of Liverpool
• Georgia's book, BSAVA's Guide to Nutrition in Small Animal Practice available on Amazon on Nov 24. 

👉 Follow the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with a colleague who could use inspiration for their veterinary journey.

Transcript

Georgia Woods-Lee: [00:00:00] But there became a point that I thought, well, you know, I've done mixed practice, I've done charity work, done EC, you know, I felt like I'd done a lot of things. What's next? Where? Where do I go from here?

I think ultimately I found myself where I feel I belong. This is what I feel I should have always been doing, and the whole journey to this point had made that possible.

Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. Our guest today stumbled into veterinary medicine a little by accident, and now she manages, I think, the longest running pet obesity clinic in the world. Georgia shares about the University of Liverpool's pet obesity clinic in the episode, but Georgia has and continues to have massive impact in animal health and has learned a lot that I think we can get a lot of value from.

Georgia Woods. Lee is a registered veterinary nurse. In the United Kingdom with a passion for nutrition, her work has shaped how we understand pet obesity, guided the development of diets and tools and supported [00:01:00] countless families in helping their pets live healthier and happier lives. But Georgia's career is so much more than this clinic.

She's a textbook author, international speaker. Writer, lifelong learner, and volunteer leader in the veterinary community. And what makes her journey so inspiring is that she didn't plan it from the start. She found her way by staying curious, raising her hand for opportunities, and embracing growth. At every step.

In this episode of Vet Life Reimagined, you'll hear how Georgia discovered her path, what she's learned about success and failure in weight management, and why veterinary technicians. And the wider profession have more possibilities than ever to create meaningful, rewarding careers. So let's get to the conversation with Georgia Woods Lee.

based off previous conversation. You were not one of the original I knew from. At the time I was born, I wanted to get into veterinary medicine necessarily. But when you were growing up, I, I did hear that you had an animal loving [00:02:00] family, so you were at least kind of surrounded by that. Do you mind sharing a little bit about growing up and maybe your interactions with animals and kind of learning more about you as you were figuring out what you enjoyed doing?

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah. And absolutely right. I think, , I didn't quite know where my path lay, however, looking back it was really obvious. So I, I grew up in, , probably what would be considered a small holding. So we had sheep, we had pigs, we had chickens, , ducks, cats, dogs, canaries, you know, so it was animals everywhere, Guinea pigs, um, rabbits, you know.

, So everything that I did, , in any sort of spare time involved animals on some level or other. I think as a family, any days out would've been to the zoo or to, you know, again, something involving animals. , And my dad, actually, his whole career was, um, he was a university professor. , And his work was with animals too.

So I, you know, everything to [00:03:00] do with the natural world, , was just who I was. And so I think when the opportunity came up to work with animals. Although I hadn't considered it hugely before it, , it was a very natural step into that.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well it sounds like you had lots of interests. You said you liked art and biology and technology. I think it's important. 'cause at one point you said like all of these started to come together, so love to hear a little bit more about how you were exploring your interest.

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, so I have always been a kind of, it feels like a person of two halves, I suppose. So on the one side. There is the very, sort of scientific side, the, the interest in the natural world, the how things work, the anatomy of things. And that clearly comes from my dad. However, I was always very, , into being artistic and creative, , which led me through school to choose half science-based subjects and half arts-based subjects, which for my teachers made no sense whatsoever.[00:04:00] 

Um. And I think I find myself, you know, in my current role, being able to have the best of both worlds, I get to be creative in the communications that I might, , do presentations, talking, that sort of thing. But also heavily involved in the science side as well. So I, I didn't ever think these two things would come together, but I think they have, , eventually and through all my career, I think I've looked for opportunities where the artistic side could come out, you know, where maybe that was, redesigning a display in a waiting room or, you know, re sort of reworking some paperwork for the clinic or , whatever that is. I, I think it's. It's interesting as well, the more you look into it, how closely art and science does actually sit next to each other, , and how creative minds are often scientific minds.

So it, yeah, I think it's all coming together now. Finally. Anyway,

Megan Sprinkle: , Like you said, reflecting back on some of your experience, I, [00:05:00] can see how even your science side was drawn to the more creative, a 

Georgia Woods-Lee: rtistic 

Megan Sprinkle: parts of , the medicine component. So, , you said you didn't really know what you were gonna do, but you happened to, I guess, be looking for a job and, and saw something.

So do you mind sharing a little bit about how you first did get into veterinary medicine?

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, it was, , one of those funny turn left or turn right moments, and my life would've been very different had I took the other path. So I had finished high school. , I had then gone to college to do an art diploma thinking that my career was gonna end in art. At the end of that year, I decided that.

It probably wasn't the direction I wanted to go in. I, didn't feel I was good enough at that really to, to make a career out of it. And so, yeah, I was looking for a job. , Went to what used to be the job center where they had jobs up on boards and you just applied for anything that you fancied. [00:06:00] And there was a job for a mobile phone company and the veterinary nursing job, and I interviewed for both jobs was offered both jobs.

I had to decide, do I turn left or do I turn right? And I think it was all that, you know, early life experience. I thought, well, it's got, it's got to be the animals. , That just made far more sense. So I, I turned to veterinary nursing and who knows where I might be had I turned the other way, unemployed maybe, who knows?

Megan Sprinkle: And we're so glad that you did because we now get to, Get all the benefits that you have done throughout your career. , But it's still a journey, discovering again, what exactly we wanna do and, and allowed ourselves to grow, which that comes into it as well as you found, you really were a learner , but life also happens too.

And so, you had had a baby and that also changed a few things, but do you. Feel free to, to pick up back on that story and, and you get this job and, , I guess you like it 'cause you, [00:07:00] you stay. Uh, but do you mind sharing your experience as you, you walk in for the first time and then kind of how the, the twists and turns come.

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, absolutely. And so actually in my interview for this first job, I remember one of the nurses showing me around the practice and , she took me into a room and showed me a dog that had just been put to sleep and clearly gauging what was my reaction going to be. And I, I didn't, you know, scream and run out.

, I just felt terribly sad that, you know, that it had gone. And, um, I think that must have been the right reaction. And that, together with the interview ended up, , getting that job. And , my first role was actually more varied than I think a lot of peoples were. So we were a small animal hospital, a small one, but a hospital nonetheless. We did a lot of charity work, so a lot of, , wildlife work, a lot of cruelty cases as well. And we had a large animal [00:08:00] side, and some equine. So I kind of ended up doing a little bit of everything, which was, wonderful in terms of the experience that it gave me. I did a year prior to any vet nurse training. So when I eventually then went to college, actually lots of it was familiar to me. This was my job, I'd been doing it, you know, and now I get all the, the whys behind the, the actual practical application of, what I was being taught. , So in the uk when I was doing my vet nurse training, it was a two year course.

And halfway through that course I realized because the way our practice was set up, there was more vets than nurses. And so as a nurse I was holding as restraining. I was, you know, doing all of that sort of thing. But through my training, realizing I wasn't really taking blood samples, I wasn't really doing those sort of more advanced skills that I thought I really would need, to become not just qualified.[00:09:00] 

But a capable, qualified nurse. I think that was my concern, is that I would have it on paper but not be able to back that up with the practical skill. And so I did move halfway through my training to a much bigger hospital. It's a big 24 hour hospital. We also had orthopedic and soft tissue and medicine referrals as part of that. So that was kind of a referral side that I hadn't seen either. And then it was just a hospital on a much bigger scale. So , that was what I needed. We had a really big nursing team. And so yes, got to do an awful lot more in terms of, practicing those skills.

So and I then did qualify there. And this is kind of, yeah, where life gets in the way, does it, or has a, has a part to play. And, I met my, then husband and, wanted to. Work nearer where we lived. And so was looking locally and there was a job advertised for a permanent night nurse, so an ECC nurse.

[00:10:00] It was a good shift pattern. I was like, this, this is brilliant. I, you know, I only work, however, I think it was five days in 14. I thought , that would be good. So. I did that up until the point of having my first daughter. And the, the emergency work, it's so varied. So fast paced, so kind of, uh, reliant on the skills that I had because it would be me and the vet and that's it, you know?

So in terms of using what I knew. I really felt like I was doing that. I felt like I was making such a difference to all of those patients. Even just the ones I was, you know, owner. I was reassuring down the phone, you know, it, it was a kind of. I'm very tangible. I was doing some good here and, and that felt great.

But then yes, decided to have a baby and couldn't work out how on earth I was going to have a newborn baby and work nights. It just didn't feel like those things would fit in at all. And probably, luckily for me more than anything. , Our veterinary [00:11:00] group at the time was acquiring another practice and they needed a head nurse for that practice.

And so I sort of said, you know, please, can I be considered for that job? And I remember everyone being quite surprised. I think they thought that I was happy where I was and you know, doing what, and I was, but I just, I think, needed something that was gonna fit in with having a family a bit better. So.

Luckily they agreed that I would be good at that position. So, then when that practice opened that, that's what I then, went to do. And I think again, because everything that I've done is so varied. So now being head nurse of a practice, it wasn't just the nursing team, it was the wider team, more sort of branch management that I was doing.

I was involved from the start, so it was this opportunity to build a practice, you know, with the equipment that I thought we'd need and, the drugs, the layout, the, you know, everything. So it, it was very much. My baby, you know, that [00:12:00] I'd kind of grown,. And I remember my boss at the time saying, he said, you can do anything as long as it makes money.

And I went, okay, I'm going to run with that. And actually part of what I did, there was to start nurse clinics , with quite a lot of seriousness. At the referral hospital. I'd started to kind of realize that I quite liked talking to owners. So I quite liked doing nutrition clinics and I started off, doing those kind of, little weight clinics or just having a chat a little bit more.

There's nothing too formal, but I'd, I'd started doing that. And so as head nurse I'm like, right, we need to be doing all the clinics that we can do. You know, really utilize the nursing team as widely as possible. And then as a result of that, across the group, we tried to standardize, weight clinics, diabetic clinics, senior clinics, renal clinics, puppy parties, um, all of all of these things.

and I think it was probably there that I [00:13:00] realized that my. My preference, my skills, lie front of house, talking to owners, that communication that I'd loved doing the emergency work, I think that's still what I was more drawn to. I then had another baby, so I had my second daughter while I was there.

, And , it was quite a sort of calm time in my career, I suppose, you know, we're happily running this clinic, , that worked very well. But there became a point, maybe two years after that I thought, well, you know, I've done mixed practice, I've done charity work, done ECC, you know, I felt like I'd done a lot of things.

What's next? Where, where do I go from here? You know, I could work another 30 years doing what I'm currently doing. But there must be, you know, there must be more out there. There's, there's got to be, other things. And so that's when you kind of cast the net, don't you? And see what's out there. And, the job at University of Liverpool, where I currently am, came up and I thought.

That has to be my perfect [00:14:00] job. dealing exclusively with nurse clinics, and that's what I thought it was at the time was just nurse clinics. And I thought, well, , I've got to take that opportunity, interviewed and luckily they, , decided I was the right person for that role.

And as I say, the, you know, the rest is history kind of thing. I've, I've been there over 10 years now. And it's changed and evolved an awful lot over that time. But I, I think ultimately I found myself where I feel I belong. This is what I feel I should have always been doing. And the whole journey to this point had made that possible.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, just, uh, one comment, so in case people missed it, the importance of. Asking, you know, raising your hand and saying, Hey, I'm interested in this job, or I'm interested in this activity. I'm interested in leading, joining, you know, that is so important because like you said, , they were. Kinda [00:15:00] surprised that you actually offered.

So, you know, I think sometimes we're lucky and, and people ask us and offer things, , and that's great. But I, I don't think we can always rely on that. I, I think if you see something, go for it. And so I, I wanna just, uh. Throw that one back out there. And then also just because this might be just a little bit different of a, language usage.

When you say clinic, are, you talking about, 'cause you even said puppy party. So is this like an event where you would invite multiple pet owners to come and, and you talk about things? Or do you mind explaining what you mean by clinic? Just a little bit more.

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, of course. Yes. Sorry. I forget that it's, it's different. So we call our actual. Building the practice, the veterinary practice, in terms of what we describe as clinics, they, yes. They're more of something with that our practice does. So, , a weight clinic [00:16:00] for instance, is an activity or, or a service if you want that the practice.

Will offer. In terms of puppy parties? Yes, that's exactly what we did. So we would, create lists of puppies in between their first and second vaccination when they couldn't go out and be socialized and we would invite them along to a puppy party. , I think knowing what I know now, I maybe would've done them differently.

Just because of, our understanding of these situations changes. But at the same time, I, I think they were hugely beneficial for lots of, , those young puppies, those positive early experiences that we could give t but yeah, so I refer to my current job as the Weight Clinic because we are within the small animal teaching hospital and it's a service that we provide.

So yes, that's where the, the differences come from.

Megan Sprinkle: No problem. And you're right, nutrition I think is heavily education and communication based. So, , you are definitely. [00:17:00] Able to excel in your skills here and, and so do you mind sharing just a little bit of background about the weight loss clinic there at Liverpool? I think that would also be interesting too, just to know a little bit how it got started , because did it start about the same time, like were you part of the original creation of it or had it been going on for a little while?

Georgia Woods-Lee: No, so the weight management clinic as it was known at the time, had been going for 10 years when I joined. , There's only ever been two nurses. myself, and my predecessor, Alex German, it's always been his clinic. He was the one who set it up originally and, continues to, to be part of that now.

But yeah, it, it originally was set up as a research project. To sort of improve our understanding of weight loss and obesity in cats and dogs, the strategies necessary, , to get weight loss. And I think I was told this fairly recently, actually, quite amusingly. To me now anyway, when they first set out, they thought [00:18:00] they're all going to reach their target weights.

They're all going to be successful. There's never going, there's gonna be no failure. How could there possibly be? This is a specialist clinic. Um, I, I think it was a rude awakening for them to understand that it is not that simple at all. And failure is part of this, wider conversation.

Um, because it's so complex and I think like with anything, the more you understand, the more complexity you understand and appreciate, as part of it. I mean, the clinic has been part of, , , the way that diets have changed over the last 20 years, the sort of innovation in terms of what does the pet need , from their diets and translating that into a widely available product.

we are very lucky we get to do product testing and hear from owners their experience of these new technologies or new, formulations or, or whatever that has to be. So we, we continue to do all of that. We now have. 20 years of data [00:19:00] essentially. So you can imagine how big my data sheets are.

We collect an awful lot of data. And so rather than just keeping repeating what we did for the last 15 years, we are now digging more and more into what does that data tell us? How can we improve things in the future? What's the future gonna look like? and, you know, so that's why I suppose my role has changed very much from just running the clinic to now being very much of the, you know, analysis of the information that we co collect and thinking about new things and, what's next for them.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Okay. So you opened up the door, so I'm gonna keep pushing it in is you talked about failure and. You are right. I think anybody who has tried to get a pet lose weight, get themselves to lose weight, you know, it's not as straightforward as you would think the math would, would be. And so when you're also [00:20:00] thinking about creating a business.

Right, , back to what your boss said is you can do whatever as long as it makes money. At the end of the day, it's still a business too, and, and you're having to report to people and, and communicate with pet owners about this. What do you do with failure? Like how, how do you handle that in all those different aspects?

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, I think that is probably redefining what failure really looks like because actually do So if they don't reach their target weight, is that failure? No, I don't think it is. Have they lost any weight at all? Is that success? Yes, I think that definitely is. So I, I think it's probably how we view what success looks like.

How we, sort of put goals in place for what success can be, how we celebrate those goals, how we treat setbacks. I, I think it's all to do with that. , I think it starts right from the beginning. People come to me saying, I [00:21:00] failed. I failed my pet. I've fed them too much. It's my fault. You know, this has happened.

I don't what to do. And I'm very sort of. Keen to kind of undo that so that we're not starting with failure. We are starting from a, but you are here, you know this is a success already. We are trying to do better. The reasons that this has happened is so complicated that there is nothing that we could ever point to that says this is to blame. This is to blame. It'll be a very complex connection of many, many things, both in that pet's history, that owner's history, the environment, who they live with. You know it. It's vast. So I think. Once you get to know these patients and thinking about their individual circumstance, what looks like success for them, is that returning them to their ideal weight?

In some cases, yes. The 2-year-old dog with no other problems. Absolutely. In the 15-year-old dog who is struggling to walk upstairs, maybe [00:22:00] 10% is massively successful for them. And that should be marked. It should be celebrated and it should be defined from the start so that, you know, everybody feels like on some level they are winning.

, Or they have had a degree of success, I would say. I think off the top of my head, and this is just our clinic and I'm sure others will find the same. Out of around 530 dogs, we've probably had 20 to 30. That haven't done anything that have haven't returned to the clinic, that haven't lost any weight.

We know I don't hear from them again for whatever reason. And again, that's complex to dig into that. But you know, for whatever reason that means that the vast majority are successful. And so then, so therefore I feel good that I can, create success, to whatever degree. And some are massively successful, you know, and do incredible things.

Um, but it, it doesn't take away from the success of those smaller wins because, I [00:23:00] think it's really important.

Megan Sprinkle: It does. And I, when I speak on weight loss, I say that as well too because even if you can get a little bit off and they have a little bit more pep in their step and they have a little bit more energy to enjoy their day , like that's impact. That's still I. Important to acknowledge and celebrate.

So I think that's a, a great takeaway. Probably. We could extrapolate that for a lot, several different things. Thank you for sharing that. And then, you know, I, I love that you said, little did you know when you took the job that you thought it was just gonna be a simple, running a clinic and then it turned out to be so much more.

And I, I think you started to kind of go down that path. But do you mind elaborating just a little bit on how it became a little bit more than what you originally thought you were signing up for.

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah. Well, I think it's been about the opportunity. And it's those opportunities and to pick up what you were saying before, the putting your hand up and Yes, can I do that? You know, there's [00:24:00] been so much opportunity for that, that, um, you know, I, I haven't been able to stop myself taking them, you know, because , there's so much.

So within a couple of months of being in the job, I was asked to present on weight loss, to 300 of a senior leadership team of a very big corporate veterinary group. So you can imagine how terrifying that was n ot very far in. Um, but I also, I, I had done a little bit of the kind of, you know, client evenings and, speaking to people, in a kind of s.

Uh, public speaking kind of way. So it wasn't brand, brand new. However, it, it was still pretty daunting. But I got up there and I realized halfway through that I was really enjoying it. It was just, there was something about the kind of the rush and the buzz of being able to present this information that, you know, I mean, talk about standing on the shoulders of giants right now.

You know, none of this was my work. [00:25:00] I was just communicating. But even so, you know, that, that felt really good. And I, I think off the back of that then came lots of other. Opportunities to speak, to write, to teach. Every year I do, it's two or three different universities I go to as a guest speaker to talk to their undergraduate vet nurses, and undergraduate vets, on topics of nutrition and, and weight loss.

You know, I, I think it's given me a platform to spread the word on what I do, not just with obesity. Also, I, I talk on nutrition in a much wider way. And then also within the hospital, , with our nursing team and our vet team, you know, I, I also will talk to them. I offer nutrition support, you know, and that's led me to do things like this.

You know, and podcasts and, writing. And, , I've been involved in writing a nutrition book recently, which was a huge career goal for me. Not one I thought I'd ever reach, [00:26:00] but, and again, I, I think it's the, the doors that this type of position opened for me to do that, coupled together with my inability to say no and stop putting my hand up.

But it's, um, yeah, it, it's all wonderful.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and I think you told me that the, yes, it, it might come back to this particular position, but also because you decided to volunteer for the BVSC, that you were able to also kind of get to be able to do this book. and I know you said your. You really would love to share more about volunteering 'cause you've seen the impact. So do you wanna say more about what you've done volunteering and, and why you think it's it's beneficial for people?

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, so, so, so yes, it's BSAVA British Small Animal Veterinary Association. No, it's fine. , Just, if anyone's looking it up. Yeah. So, as these things happen, it, I've been, speaking at a Congress and [00:27:00] I find myself at dinner next to the volunteers manager and she said, well, have you thought about volunteering?

And genuinely I had not. And, , she was telling me about the sort of opportunity that it, that it could lead the getting to know people, the understanding, the wider profession, and so I agreed. And again, not really knowing what I was signing up for. But yes, I, I think volunteering has been, career-wise, one of the best decisions I've ever made because of those connections, because of the people that I've met, the conversations that I've had, not.

About nutrition, but just as in veterinary medicine, just sort of being part of that wider conversation and, knowing and understanding what's happening, where the problems are, where hopefully things are improving. And so to be part of that. Was hugely rewarding alone. And then because of those connections, oh, you write nutrition fancy writing this for us.

Um, which of course I was like, [00:28:00] yes, of course I will. and while you're at it, will you run our nutrition course? Yes. Why not? You know, the term networking, some people may or may not like the term, but essentially that's what it is. It's getting to know people and, being in their mind when they're looking for a writer or a speaker or you know, somebody like that.

So I think even though volunteering does take up time, my time commitment. Is less than five days a year. It, it's very small actually , in the grand scheme of things. My workplace is, is good enough to give me three days a year volunteer work paid. I don't know whether that's widely what happens, but hopefully the benefits can be, proposed for people to be allowed the time.

but what I've received in return from volunteering, Has just been, well, part of my career journey for sure, which is not what I predicted at all. So, yeah, I think everyone should volunteer on a big or small scale, whatever they feel they [00:29:00] have the capacity for. Because , it gives back so much.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, well,

I think you may.

have to write another book because a lot is coming into the world of nutrition, especially weight management, with the potential, not potential they're coming, uh, uh, drugs, that. Will be other options. And as you've said, because you have this established weight loss clinic, you're often some of the first to be able to use new diets, new treatment options, new equipment, you know, the DEXA, all, all of those things So from your position, do you mind sharing a little bit about what you're seeing and, and kind of let us know a little bit more about what's gonna be in the, the near future. I still think it's pretty near, maybe in the next couple years, but still pretty near future when it comes to nutrition as well as, weight management.

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, absolutely. I [00:30:00] think, I mean these drugs have exploded, haven't they? They've been around for a long time actually, but it, it's only recently been recognized the sort of in people, the power that these drugs potentially hold. They're not perfect and like everything, it will take quite a long time to refine.

You know, what happens in people, nevermind in pets, but again, we will, add them to our toolbox. I think. I don't think they're the answer for all of them, but for some they certainly are. I agree. They're absolutely coming. I would be astounded, yes, if in a couple of years time we're not using these drugs, whether it's just in sort of specialist referral or whether it'll be wider at that point, I'm not sure.

There are certainly groups already doing experimental work with these drugs. I think we have lots of issues to consider with, with these drugs and what they do and what we are likely to see, and I think that's because my. Involvement in the clinic is very direct with [00:31:00] the owner. What is the owner's experience of these drugs going to be?

Now we know that we can take pets, put them in a laboratory situation, and get them to lose weight without the drugs. That's no problem. We can get them, give them the drugs, and yes, they will lose weight very nicely. Again, when it has the pet owner element as well, I think we've got a lot to consider. So they are inevitably going to suppress appetite.

That's what they do. But in, in people, what they kind of do is wipe out appetite. That's sort of how they're used. And so, as a human using these drugs, you have to make sure you are getting your 50 or 70 grams of protein a day. You have to make sure that you are actually eating enough to lose weight safely.

And of course, that's probably open to abuse in the human world. And, you know, malnutrition isn't generally a problem in humans. However, these drugs do run the risk of making people malnourished. So what do we do with dogs and cats in that situation? Because we [00:32:00] can't put a bowl in front of them and say, well, you've already gotta eat it.

, We've got to handle that differently. So I think I predict. What we will be using them for is probably in those individuals that we know suffer from hunger. And I say it like that because the, the drive to seek food for, and we, I think we all know those dogs and those cats that just insatiable, there's nothing, you know, could feed them 10 times what their allocation is and they will still steal, they will still, constantly look for food.

And so it's for those, I think it would need a sort of titrated individualized dose to reduce those food seeking behaviors to a point where their welfare isn't being compromised. Because I mean, even if we think about the five freedoms, the freedom from hunger. I don't think we always manage that when it comes to weight loss and keeping the weight off as well.

And again, I have patients in my mind where I think I know exactly who these drugs would be useful [00:33:00] for. Now, interestingly. There was a similar drug years ago that was used and it was, um, very effective in terms of the weight loss results that it gave, but the change in appetite affected the human animal bond and their relationship, and it ultimately meant that that drug wasn't.

Released to the general market, it wasn't used widely. And it's because we probably underestimate how much dog interaction in particular involves food with the owner. So when they didn't have an appetite and the dog sort of saw the owner and was like, eh, you've got nothing for me. You know, I can't be bothered getting up and saying hello to you.

You, there's no purpose that, you know, owners really didn't like that and felt that. That was ruining that relationship. So I think we have to be very careful in terms of the actual owner's experience of that. Now, again, because we can use these potentially in a welfare situation, hopefully we can coach owners, we can warn owners, we can find a sweet spot [00:34:00] where they still feel they're getting that interaction and their dog isn't totally disinterested in them, but also that their dog is coping better.

with the food restriction that they're having to have for their general and wider health. And so I think it's all going to be in the balance of all of that is what food are we actually going to feed them Because at the moment we feed them food specifically to help them feel full to, you know, the lots of fiber in there, lots of protein, lots of elements to help 'em feel full.

Whereas if we are using these drugs, we actually don't want that because we can probably get enough, um, of the satiety from the drug. That means we probably want highly nutrient dense foods that where small amounts are necessary to be eaten only. So if they are eating only small amounts, they're definitely getting everything they need.

Those diets don't really exist yet, so we probably have to wait for these drugs to come in, see their use, and then have diets that would be, [00:35:00] um, suitable to use in those cases. So I think there's, you know, I mean, I could talk about this topic for quite a long time. Um, there's, you know, administration issues.

So at the moment for people, , you get, get this pen and you inject yourself once a week. Are people going to bring these animals in for an injection once a week? And that's quite intense. I don't have the answer, but you know, maybe it should be, maybe we should give owners the ability to, um, inject their own pet like they would a diabetic.

But then you run the risk of the misuse of these kind of drugs. So I think that's probably something that needs to be resolved. Will a monthly injection come? Who knows. There's work there to be done. , And of course, the cost. So already we've seen the manufacturers and people, of these drugs doubling the cost, to make it extreme, you know, hundreds of pounds, hundreds of dollars a month.

Can owners afford that? Will insurance pay out for this type of [00:36:00] drug? Again, we're probably not there with the answers to these questions yet. So it, is coming, but it, it is layered. There's lots of. Obstacles to overcome, I think. But I am still excited about them coming because I think we could, they, they'd be really beneficial.

Megan Sprinkle: It also still means job security for you and, because like you said, it, it's different, but it still needs education. It still needs a lot of owner, guidance and encouragement and understanding how these things work, and this is just more opportunity. Think for people who are interested in this area to really come in and start to learn and, and support this area of growing medicine. And when you were. Constantly looking for learning opportunities. You've really invested in your personal education.

You've, gotten your VTS in nutrition. I know you're working on a PhD, you said is your, another big dream that you [00:37:00] have. I know you said you're stopping there, but who knows?

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, I mean, whom I kidding?

Megan Sprinkle: Um, but do you wanna share a little bit more about maybe some of your decisions to do some of these types of continuing education for yourself and, and maybe extend some thoughts, uh, and encouragement for others who might be considering it.

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, definitely. I, I think I've always had that and what's next? I, I think that's probably, you know, what underlined or you know, is my title of this. . And also I've always wanted to be the best nurse that I could, so I wanted to be the most skillful nurse as I was qualifying. I wanted to, you know, be able to walk in anywhere as a qualified nurse and know what I was doing.

When I came to the weight clinic, I had. No other sort of specific nutrition qualification or training or anything like that, and, and really felt that it would benefit not just me, but my patients and my [00:38:00] role. so I did a certificate in, um, canine and Feline Veterinary Health Nutrition, as it was called at the time.

, It was a online taught course. Which was very useful. Then I was again, okay, what's next? What do I do next? And I'd done lots of, , CPD, I'd done, you know, lots of evenings or day courses and that sort of thing. But, I felt like, again, I, I wanted to sort of bend and stretch what I was capable of and so.

The veterinary technician specialist, in nutrition, qualification became the next sort of natural step. Really. Now it's a very different type. Of course, it's all self-motivated. It, the learning is self-lead. It, it's not taught in any way. There's a big case book that you have to fulfill. Think it was 60 cases and five extended case reports.

But it, it's this really great opportunity actually to, uh, really record your experience and knowledge on nutrition, [00:39:00] in those situations. And then we have a, you know, an exam , you then have your, again, self-led, motivated, revision and, , the learning comes through these, processes,

so. , when I achieved the VTS in nutrition, I was only the second person in the UK to have that qualification. Which felt very nice to, to be able to say that. I think I was only one of 25 at the time. The, the academy's grown now, which is wonderful. And we want more nutrition specialist techs for sure.

But there's few and far between. Spread all over the world now, which is also really nice. So being part of that kind of really exclusive group and having peers that are doing similar jobs in similar areas was, was really good. And again, that kind of network spreading to, you know, different countries and , different people's backgrounds, that sort of thing.

And then again, because that clearly wasn't enough, that, that was 2019 that I achieved that. [00:40:00] So, early 2020, I spoke with my boss, Alex, and we were saying, well, what's next? What, what do I do next? And so the PhD was kind of, you know, put out there , as a possibility. But for me it was difficult because I didn't qualify with a degree, with a bachelor's degree, as a veterinary nurse.

So it was a different type of qualification when I did it. And in order to do a PhD, I needed an honors degree. So at the beginning of 2020, I, went back, well, went to university 'cause I'd never been to university. Um, it was all online anyway. And of course, being 2020 coincided with COVID. Um, which kind of did me a favor really, because all the daily running of the clinic had to stop.

We couldn't see patients. There was no, medical need to see them. So, that time afforded me much more to work on. My degree, and it was a top up degree. So it was like during the final year, of an honors degree. [00:41:00] So in 2022, achieved that, which then allowed me to go on, and do the PhD.

Now again, the PhD options probably five years ago probably looked quite different to how they did now. so it used to be a full-time or part-time. That was kind of the only option. But now universities are starting to do PhD by prior publication, which is how I am going about it. And it means that I can continue to do my day job.

I can continue to run the clinic and, and be involved in that. I can continue to do, um, the external work and things that I'm involved in, but now I get. To have the time and the ability to work on a PhD as well. So the way that this will work for me is that I'll need to publish four to five papers as a first author.

And that's, you know, no small undertaking for anyone who's got things published. Because sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's really not. And once I published that first paper, [00:42:00] I've then got five years to publish the rest and. To do a final year, and that final year will mean, writing of the thesis.

It's a much smaller one, so it's maybe 30,000 words versus 130,000, so, you know, smaller but still sizable. And then I sit to either just as, just as anybody, anybody would. So , it is quite a big undertaking, but it works much better for me in terms of everything else I'm doing. So.

Megan Sprinkle: Well, that's very exciting. And so there's still a lot in your future it sounds like, that you'll be working on and, I just love this conversation. I think we've explored. Quite a bit. , What have we missed? Is there anything that you would offer as words of wisdom or anything that you've kind of learned along the way that you might offer other, not just veterinary technicians, but, I think, veterinary technicians especially need to know the opportunities and thoughts, but [00:43:00] any words of wisdom to our, our colleagues.

Georgia Woods-Lee: Yeah, I once was called the Queen of meme because there's a couple of memes, but they, it is because they go through my mind when I think about these things. So the first one is, you are not a tree. You can move, but you know, if you're not happy. There is nothing to be gained by staying where you are and to have the faith that there is something better out there.

There will be there, there absolutely will be the right place. The place you feel valued, the place where you feel you, you can grow. You know, those do exist. You don't have to stay in a situation that makes you sad or makes you unhappy. So that's, kind of my first one. And the second one, which kind of follows on from that a little bit is , feel the fear and do it anyway.

And I, I think I find myself in that situation all the time that it becomes quite normal to be outta the comfort zone and just kind of thinking, well, it'll, it'll be all right. I'll make it all right. You know, because actually that's where the really good stuff happens. So [00:44:00] the having the bravery to put your hand up, to volunteer yourself, to push yourself forward, even in really small little ways.

Whatever you feel you can do, that's how you sort of grow and develop. So I think those would be my two words of wisdom.

Megan Sprinkle: Those are amazing. I love those and I am a visual person too, so that will definitely help. with me for a long time, so thank you for that. the last question I always ask my guest, and this can be beyond career specific, so this is in general, what is something that you are really grateful for right now? 

Georgia Woods-Lee: I think it has to be. , Grateful for my health. I mean, I have struggled whilst doing all of this, you know, struggled, struggled with my health physically, and I, I think I am much better now. I have autoimmune disease, so it's not going away. It's something I will always live [00:45:00] with.

, But I think I'm grateful right now to be feeling well, to be able to do all the things that I'm doing. So yeah. 

Megan Sprinkle: I wanna thank Georgia Woodley for sharing her incredible journey and insights. If you'd like to learn more about her work, including publications, the Weight Management Clinic at the University of Liverpool, I will put some resources in the show notes. And Georgia left us with two pieces of advice that I.

Absolutely loved, and I really want us to remember, and that's one. You are not a tree. You can move. If you are not happy where you are, step out because there's more out there waiting for you. And two, feel the fear and do it anywhere. Growth comes when we step outside our comfort zone. Raise our hand and take the leap.

This is where the good stuff happens. A special thank you to Dr. Kelly Cooper for supporting the podcast. Through our Buzz Sprout platform. You can do that too by hitting the support the show in the show notes. And if you have found value in today's [00:46:00] conversation, please, please, please follow the podcast, leave a review, and share it with a colleague.

Your support helps us continue to bring in Spring voices like Georgia's to the veterinary community. And as always, let's keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life.