AVMA Live - Vets Leading Innovation With Natalie Marks

Beyond the Clinic: Shaping the Future of Pet Health Through Startups and Innovation

Recorded live at the AVMA Convention's first ever podcast day in Anaheim, California, this conversation with Dr. Natalie Marks — CEO of VANE, the Veterinary Angel Network of Entrepreneurs, and one of the most compelling voices in veterinary innovation today. 

Natalie and I talk about how to say yes before you're ready, why the veterinary degree is a global passport, what "pre-invention" means and why she wishes she'd heard that word earlier in her career, and why the profession needs more veterinary voices in the startup world, on advisory boards, in C-suites, and anywhere else the future is being decided.

Resources:

• Video episode on YouTube
• Key messages and applications in Podcast Club Guide on Substack
• Veterinary Angel Network of Entrepreneurs (VANE)
• Learn more about Dr. Natalie Marks
  • Previous episode on the podcast: Audio & video
  • Website
  • LinkedIn
• Learn more about Eve Hanks
  • Episode on the podcast: Audio & Video
  • Mi:RNA
• Diversity Veterinary Medicine Coalition (DVMC)
• Not One More Vet (NOMV)

The Animal Health, Nutrition, Technology Innovation (AHNTI) conference will be in Boston on Oct 26-28. Registration closes July 12th, so don't wait. Learn more at AHNTI-US.com and use code VETLIFE10 to save 10% on registration.

Transcript

Natalie Marks: [00:00:00] So for us to have more innovation in the animal health space, whether it's internal to veterinary hospitals or external facing to the consumer or the pet parent, the key truly is a veterinarian sitting on that advisory team, sitting in that C-suite, sitting in the strategic circles of the clinical advisory board 

Megan Sprinkle: What happens when a room full of 60 people are making decisions about the future of veterinary medicine and only one of them is a veterinarian? We recorded this episode live at AVMA to talk about exactly that. This episode is a special one. This year, I had the honor of being invited to participate in the AVMA convention's first podcast day in Anaheim, California, and I could not think of a better guest or a better topic to bring to that stage.

I sat down with Dr. Natalie Marks to talk about something I have been thinking about for a long time, and that I know many of you have been feeling [00:01:00] too, the opportunity and the urgency for veterinary professionals to show up beyond the clinic and help shape the future of animal health. In my experience, and in over 200 podcast conversations, I have been convinced that the veterinary voice is one of the most valuable assets in all of animal health innovation.

Decisions are being made right now about diagnostics, therapeutics, policy, technology, access to care in rooms where veterinarians are not in the majority, sometimes where there are none at all. Dr. Natalie Marks is one of the people actively working to change that. She spent over a decade co-owning the largest small animal practice in Chicago before reinventing herself, her words, into the world of startups, angel investing, and innovation.

Today, she serves as CEO of VANE, the Veterinary Angel Network of Entrepreneurs, a rapidly growing community of veterinarians and veterinary allies shaping the future of animal [00:02:00] health from the inside of the rooms where it matters most. In this conversation, recorded live at AVMA, Natalie and I talk about how to say yes before you're ready, why the veterinary degree is a global passport, what pre-invention means, and why the profession needs more veterinary voices in the startup world, on advisory boards, in C-suites, and anywhere else the future of animal health is being decided.

If you have ever thought your contribution to this profession has to happen one patient at a time, this episode is going to expand what you think is possible. Let's get to the conversation with Dr. Natalie Marks. 

welcome to Vet Life Reimagined live at AVMA. I'm so excited to be here. For those listening or listening to us later, I'm Dr. Megan Sprinkle. I'm the host of the podcast and on Vet Life Reimagined, I want us to explore many different ways that veterinarians can [00:03:00] explore their careers and thrive and participate in the future of veterinary medicine.

So I am very passionate about the topic that we will be discussing, and that's why I brought you, Dr. Natalie, to share more about careers on innovation and contributing to a different way of the future of veterinary medicine. So it's important to me, one, because of my own career path, and I've been interested in innovation for a very long time, but I've also interviewed now over 200 people on the podcast, and so all the more am I realizing the opportunity in animal health to contribute to the future of the profession in a lot of different ways and in animal health, a lot of different ways.

And what I've kind of realized after all of this is a lot of veterinary professionals think about their impact one patient at a time. Mm-hmm. And that's very valuable, and It needs to be there, but there's also a lot that's happening that's impacting veterinary medicine. [00:04:00] Decisions are being made where there may not be as many veterinary voices, and so wanting to highlight how can veterinary professionals participate in many different ways.

And a lot of times it doesn't even have to take them away from if they enjoy practicing in clinic, they can still participate in those conversations, and I hope they can. So where I'd love to start today is allowing you to share a little bit of your story. So you ran the largest practice in Chicago for a decade.

Mm-hmm. What was it that encouraged you or you found was an opportunity outside of clinical practice to engage in innovation or a non-clinical role? 

Natalie Marks: Sure. And, and I wanna start by saying that helping one patient at a time is such a beautiful foundation for all the work that we do. Yeah. Especially if your career takes you outside of traditional c- clinical [00:05:00] practice.

It's a great lens for which to keep in the back of your mind, the forefront of why we do all of this, right? That human-animal bond. When I was exiting clinical practice, for a lot of different reasons, some of which I was ready for, some of which I wasn't, and I think that was a great learning experience in itself, in that if you're interested in helping shape innovation and you're thinking to yourself, "I, I don't really know a lot about innovation," or, "I don't really know a lot about business," or, "I have no idea what the startup world is like," um, I just gave a lecture yesterday to a bunch of international veterinary students talking about just this topic, which is you gotta say yes before you're 100% ready.

And I would encourage all of you listening now or in the future to think about that, that there are going to be opportunities that come your way where you may not feel like 100% qualified person or maybe the best choice, or even as you're thinking about it, "I, I don't know anything about poultry medicine right now."

But if you have curiosity, if [00:06:00] you surround yourself with the right people, if you are not afraid to ask questions and reach out, and what I call pre-invent yourself, which I know we'll talk about, it really makes a difference of getting yourself into the circles that you want to be in, or even those that you never imagined you would be.

And I certainly didn't imagine 10 years ago when I was running Blum that suddenly I'd be the CEO of an angel investor network. , But sometimes those opportunities fall into your lap, sometimes you make them happen, but you need to say yes before you're ready. 

Megan Sprinkle: I love that. And a lot of times when companies need the veterinary voice and perspective, that clinical perspective is what is needed there.

I- That's often what's missing, . And so, yes, that time in clinic, is part of the beauty of the contribution of the veterinary voice. And so you already alluded to it, and I saw your post on LinkedIn where you had given a, a presentation to veterinary students and , sharing about your career journey as [00:07:00] well, and it kind of occurred to you about that term.

Pre-invention. Do you wanna share a little bit more about that thought on, you know, not waiting until you are in the, the depths of depression to be like, "Well, maybe I should try something different." It's that mi- maybe the mindset that you can start earlier in the process .

Natalie Marks: Absolutely. I feel very lucky in my career that I tried, and successfully did, reinvent myself. But I know that not everybody was as fortunate to maybe have the same opportunities or to be in the same situation as I was, to think about that. And I run into colleagues all the time, and, you know, it doesn't even matter what phase of career.

I've seen people in six months out of school already burnt out. but people are in a place, just like you alluded, where it's almost too hard to turn around. It's almost too hard to think about starting over, [00:08:00] starting new. Where do I even go? And so I thought about this reinvention, and when I was really digging into this about, and, and starting to write some thought leadership pieces, I ran across Sahil Bloom, who is my favorite leader right now, thought leader, and he wrote a, a statement that said, "The world is permissionless."

Meaning no, nobody is gonna give you permission to start your career over, over. Nobody's gonna give you permission. you just should do it. Stop waiting for someone to say, "Go do it," and just do it yourself. And so I kinda combined them into this pre-invention, because I really feel like if veterinary students and young career graduates can think ahead of the curve, can say to yourself, "Well, I'm in practice now, but I'm gonna explore what One Health and public health looks like.

I'm gonna explore what research might look like. You know what? I love clinical trials. I'm gonna work with a company and offer up my clinic to do a clinical trial on a new therapeutic," or, "I'm gonna go do [00:09:00] lobby for a day and see what government relations is like." Do it now while you have the energy and the passion because then you have plan A, B, C, D, E already scoped out.

Not all the granular details, but you kinda know, do I like it? Would I explore it? Have I met somebody? Do I have some connections? Or maybe I absolutely hated it and I'm so glad I found out before I took that job. But I combined them into this pre-invention because I really believe, and that was, I think looking back in hindsight and debriefing my own career, I think that was part of it, is when I had energy, when I had passion, I explored some of these other opportunities about, startup world, about angel investing, about being advisors and sitting on early companies to shape strategy.

And now all of a sudden my network has become this beautiful web of support, and I really, uh, I'm paying it forward and I want to give that back. So, anyone who's looking to pre-invent, I'm [00:10:00] certainly a, friendly call-out, and reach out on LinkedIn, to start exploring those aspects of your career.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and I, I think the network is actually a really big part of that because yes, it's really important to explore different things that you might be interested in to see if you really are interested in it and wanna lean up into it more, or like you said, "Yeah, I, I'm not interested in that. Thank goodness I, I found that out now."

but along the way is talking with people- Mm-hmm ... and building these relationships that, yes, are going to be helpful in your career path, but also make it much more fun. 

Natalie Marks: Yes. 

Megan Sprinkle: You know, the things that we remember are the relationships and the people in our life, more so than a particular experience, and a- as you find out as you go, that is also usually what happens, to help you get to where you wanna go are- Mm-hmm

are actually the people and the relationships you build. 

Natalie Marks: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, having a village is key. I mean, we are a relationship-centered [00:11:00] industry, not just within our practices, not just within our teams, but outside as you grow in your career. And the networks that I've made have become both professional respected colleagues that I trust and lean on, but also a lot of them very dear friends.

And I think as we travel the world and, you travel your career in vet med, and I certainly have had a, a very, um... tumultuous in a positive way career in that it's gone different ways and different off-ramps and on-ramps, and I've tried a lot of different things, and I've been writing and teaching and lecturing and consulting and all this stuff.

the beauty of it is that you don't have to wear one hat, right? So if you start in clinical practice and you think to yourself, "Is this where I'm gonna end?" No. Reinvent yourself. like Megan said, I think that foundation is such a core tenet of what a lot of these companies in the innovation space are looking for.

They're looking for someone who has lived experience to say, "Wow, that therapeutic you're developing is amazing, [00:12:00] but I really think it's in the wrong species. You should be looking at cats instead." Or, "Wow, that diagnostic test is great, but really the need is subclinical detection," right? And that's the nuance, that's the gem information that these companies are begging for.

Mm. And we've s- uh, looked at, now we've had over 550 companies apply to our angel group, all in the startup space, all in animal health, many of them in biotech, just craving information and advice from veterinarians who are able to shape, "Well, this is what happens in small animal production, poultry. I'm a goat expert.

I'm in exotics. I'm a regulator. I worked in CMC." Wherever you are, you have such a unique lens that is so valuable to the startup space, and that's how innovation moves forward efficiently. Otherwise, it stalls or it goes into what we call in the business world the valley of death, and the company runs out of money before they get more.

So for us to have more innovation in, in [00:13:00] the animal health space, whether it's internal to veterinary hospitals or external facing to the consumer or the pet parent, the key truly is a veterinarian sitting on that advisory team, sitting in that C-suite, sitting in the strategic circles of the clinical advisory board or whatever that looks like, shaping the clinical decisions that matter to the industry.

Megan Sprinkle: I love all of that. And as we are here to really focus in on startups and innovation, I keep getting reminded by the story that someone shared on the podcast previously, and I shared it on LinkedIn, and it seemed to get quite the reaction. And it, it was very a visual, so I'm, I'm gonna borrow someone else's story.

But he being a veterinarian got invited to a, a very prestigious dinner conversation that was supposed to be talking about the future of veterinary medicine. Now, , and this is beyond just even specific products, right? This, this is [00:14:00] big conversation. And he found himself in the room with 60 people, and he was the only veterinarian, and that concerned him and me, , what are your thoughts when you kind of hear that story where there's one veterinarian in a very large room making very impactful decisions that are going to impact all of this?

Does that kind of spark any thoughts or any experience that you've seen? 

Natalie Marks: Well, it, first it, it sparks empathy 'cause I've been there too. And I'm proud of our colleague who was in that conversation because it's very needed. I think it says three things to me. One is there's only so many of us, and yet we shape almost all of health, right?

Because we're public health officers, so we shape a lot of human health, too. We need, it's not a want, we need to be in all of these conversations. So two, that leads me to if you are a colleague listening who's been asked to that dinner party and said no, [00:15:00] or is being asked to be interviewed for your local paper or a radio station or TV or w- wherever it is, you need to say yes before you're ready.

Whether you've done media or not, we can help you with that. But veterinarians need a voice, and there's not enough of us, and we need to keep speaking out because it's our industry, right? We're shaping the future. Otherwise, it's shaped by people with deep pockets, as you mentioned, so or sort of alluded to, that have really no touch point into the veterinary space.

They have assumptions. They have what popular press might suggest. Um, I think it's very clear with all of the major issues that we're facing right now between contextualized care, spectrum of care, access to care, some of the legal ramifications, some of the changing titles, some of the, the, you know, there, there's so much going on that we need our voice.

So that brings me to the third, which is the reason, one of the big reasons that VANE was [00:16:00] created, so the Veterinary Angel Network for Entrepreneurs, is we are a group of nearly 100 members now and rapidly growing- of veterinarians mostly, about 75%, but the rest are veterinarian allies in animal health shaping the voice.

So we are positioned to be part of panels and be part of discussions and to be part of the startup leadership suites and be part of advisory boards so that people understand what the industry has, what the industry needs, where the opportunities are, and what we want for innovation, what we want for policy, what we want to see move the needle.

We don't just want Band-Aids on things that are broken. We want solutions. We want people to think out of the box and to come from outside industries, but to come in and work collaboratively with us. We don't want outside industry to just come in and dictate what to do. We want that to be a balance. So I love that story.

I'm so thankful that your previous guest was brave enough to [00:17:00] share that story because it is happening, and it needs to change, and I hope that's a catalyst to everyone listening out there that we can all do our small part in our circle or wherever we're asked to contribute, and to not be afraid to speak your mind because every experience matters.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. And when I had shared that story on LinkedIn, and I, I got such a interesting response, I had several people write about potential barriers that they felt- Mm-hmm ... that might be getting in the way of more veterinarians participating- Mm-hmm ... in these types of conversations. And so but before I, I bias you and, and-

we've kind of already talked about it, so it's a little bit of a spoiler, but what do you think are really ... And maybe you've heard stories from other people , what do you think are the biggest fears or what, what's- Mm

getting in the way of more veterinary voices in these rooms? 

Natalie Marks: I think there's quite a few, unfortunately. Um, one is just this imposter syndrome of [00:18:00] it's not my voice they wanna hear, or I don't know enough, I don't know how to frame it, it's I haven't had that happen to me, I'm not media trained, I don't have the time, I don't have the expertise.

I've, I've heard a lot of reasons of why they m- potentially don't want to participate in the, you know, X or Y. What I would say to that is there's always gonna be barriers, right? To anything we do. I'm training for a marathon right now. I am so not a runner, right? There's barriers to it. I'm gonna be 50.

There's, I don't have a ton of time. I could, I could list all of them. What I wanna stop us from doing is using barriers as an excuse to just stop. Certainly, there are gonna be barriers to a lot of things that we do, especially you and I as we have transitioned and done other things outside of clinical practice.

There are barriers to that, right? I mean, there aren't that many podcast hosts. There aren't that many angel investors. We're sort of paving the way. But what that does mean is [00:19:00] that if there's something you want bad enough in life, if there's something you're passionate and authentic enough that you wake up in the morning, you're like, "This is what I wanna do," and you go to bed at night and you're like, "I'm so glad I did it," that's worth it, right?

To, to solve those barriers. So what I always suggest and what ha- helped me is relying on the village, right? You don't have to solve every barrier yourself. You reach out and you say to someone who came ahead of you, "How did you solve this?" Right? Or, "This is the problem I wanna solve. I'd love some help."

And the more that we can do that together, the more that we can use teamwork, right, to truly move mountains and move those barriers out of the way, the better. And, there's a lot of groups doing that, right? The Diversify Coalition is doing that. There's, quite a few other mentorship groups that are out there.

NOMV. There's, there's lots of groups, but, um, even the, the, the, Industry Veterinarian Association of really creating a camaraderie there. What we've tried to do at VANE is create a supportive, safe, and [00:20:00] respected environment for people to discuss, propel, invest, and advise these startups where veterinarians never had a voice before.

And now they do, and we're changing the game so instead of us reaching out to these startups, now they're coming to us. Took a lot of work, right? It didn't happen overnight. But when you talk the talk and you walk the walk, and you're not afraid of feedback, and this is, I think, the key. The, if I've learned one thing in the last 10 years that has been such a reframe for me is that feedback is a gift.

Every piece of feedback you get, and I get, I, I take to heart, whether it feels good in the moment or not. Sometimes it doesn't always feel good. But in the moment, I, I take it in and I really debrief as objectively as I can on how things could be better, right? And so we get feedback all the time. lot of people reach out to me 'cause they see what I'm doing, and it's obviously very different from what I started, and they wonder, "How did you do that?"

Got a lot of feedback. I asked a lot of people. I [00:21:00] got a lot of feedback. I figured out what got me up in the morning and what let me feel good at the end of the day. And ultimately, it's like you mentioned at the very beginning, now instead of me affecting a patient one at a time- I'm helping develop a subclinical HCM detection diagnostic.

It's gonna affect every potential cat that's screened out there, right? Globally. So when you start to put it like that and you realize, "Wow, it was a lot of hard work. There were a lot of barriers. You didn't ... I didn't overcome them all at once," right? A little bit at a time. Now suddenly when you start to see the light at the end of the tunnel, it's so rewarding.

So there's a lot of people out here helping and ready to help solve those barriers for people. So I hope that if you run into one, it's not, "I'm just gonna stop," right? It's open a different door. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, absolutely. And a- as you were describing that, I started thinking about my own scenario and there are moments where I'm like, "Why am I here?"

Like, I'm surrounded by very talented [00:22:00] people, but I've learned a lot, and you will still have moments where you're like, "Oh, that's why I'm here," right? Like you- Yes ... you still bring that very unique voice, and that can be rewarding, too, 'cause it reminds you of like, "Oh, I do have a contribution." Um, but at the same time, you're learning a lot, and especially, like, with all the companies that you're supporting, I am sure you have learned things- Oh

you never would have learned otherwise, and it gives you such a unique, holistic perspective of all the things that go into whether it's making a product, making a diagnostic. Like, and that can really be helpful, and, and, you know, uh, empathy is the word that's coming to mind. Maybe that's not the best word, but, you start to understand, like, "Oh, okay, you know, thank you for that perspective.

I didn't think about that here. Um, so now I'm gonna take that and then show you this side of it, too." Mm-hmm. So it's like when you, you bring a bunch of people together with expertise from all of these, you make magic. I, of, of, you know ... That's just kinda what happens. It feels like it. But nonetheless, it will not be as good as it could be without that [00:23:00] veterinary voice there.

So even if you do tend to find yourself, investing in this, more fully and you are the only veterinarian there- It, it can feel lonely, but you are making such an impact, and I love that VANE is now a community- Mm-hmm ... of veterinary professionals coming in with the same enthusiasm for, "I wanna make an impact by bringing my perspective."

Mm-hmm. And working with these organizations or companies that are, they're more nimble 'cause they're startups, and together we can make something really that's going to change the future of how we take care of animals, which is super exciting. 

Natalie Marks: Yeah. And I wanna make sure that every veterinarian listening understands that they are the secret sauce.

I hear it a lot, like, "I'm just a small animal vet," or, "I'm just a clinical vet," or, or, "I'm just a..." You are so much more, first of all, than just a veterinarian, but the veterinary degree is [00:24:00] phenomenally nimble, and what I call it, it's, it's your global passport. You can do whatever you wanna do with it, and there are very few of us that have it.

So treat it as such. It is really a gem. I mean, it's unbelievable how many doors it has opened for me. You just have to be curious enough to allow that opportunity to come to you, and when it does, to take it before you're ready, right? And I, I want to make sure that colleagues out there realize that even just starting by raising your hand and saying, "You know what?

I'd love to do some clinical trials." I'd love to work with a company that's early on and be part of their FDA approval process. How amazing to say that you were part of helping that drug come to market that might change, you know, millions of animals' lives. There's little easy things you can do, but the key is to reach out before you're ready, pre-invent yourself, right?

Do the research now, and rely on your village, because your network is really everything. And like we've talked about, not only can they be support and mentorship, but they can [00:25:00] also be opening those doors for you. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, yeah. Well, since we're kinda short on time, I want you to be able to speak a little bit more about all of the different companies that you've been a part of.

So maybe you can show an example. And it would be ... Maybe it would be helpful for people too if you can think of a time where that veterinary voice really was highlighted in the impact of working with an innovation or a startup. 

Natalie Marks: Yeah. So, I do work with a lot of companies, but I think I'll speak to the one that's probably most timely, which is MiRNA.

So this is a microRNA company out of the UK, came out of a university lab. Uh, Eve Hanks is the CEO, veterinarian. She's quadruple boarded or something at this point. A phenomenal leader. And Rob Keldhouse, her co-founder. And I think coming on as their chief veterinary officer has really helped to shape specific use case, where right now their flagship products are cardiology and, like I mentioned, the subclinical HCM, being able [00:26:00] to showcase how having a product that detects at that level can actually change the total trajectory of the disease.

Mm. Being able to have a targeted therapeutic, to catch things before they become clinical, to be able to do precision medicine and target those at-risk breeds even earlier on, where before there was literally nothing, right? So you're actually changing the way a disease is diagnosed and then successfully treated.

So- It's unbelievable to be able to think about that, and as my clinical point of view, I'm able to shape the outward messaging, shape the actual use case to subclinical disease rather than clinical disease, and to figure out how that fits into the workflow of the current feline cardiac workup and how to teach other colleagues how to use this test.

So it really took all the foundational knowledge I have, and now I work again in a diagnostics company where I'm able to think about product development, dashboard development, all the research, the internal collaboration, [00:27:00] publishing studies and abstracts, presenting, and now the use case. So really puts it all together, like you said.

When veterinarians come in there, they're kind of that last piece that makes the magic. So I hope this inspires a lot of you out there to start thinking about the magic you can make. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much. And, and just to say, Natalie has been on the podcast if you wanna hear her whole journey.

Eve has been on the podcast- ... if you wanna hear her whole, her journey. And if you don't know where to start, it, it's always great if there is a particular topic that you're interested in. Mm-hmm. You know, do a little Googling, look around, and see who might be working there. Or if a company comes to you and wants to just talk to you, that might be an opportunity to just say yes to that one conversation, and you never know where that may lead, and you may find a new area that you can contribute to.

So again- Yeah ... thank you so much for doing this with me, Natalie. Oh, 

Natalie Marks: thanks for having me. 

Megan Sprinkle: 25 minutes is never enough with Dr. Natalie Marks, but I hope what you heard today has planted a seed. Say yes before [00:28:00] you're ready. Pre-invent yourself now while you have the energy and the passion. Treat your veterinary degree like the global passport it is, and find your village because none of this happens alone.

If the future of animal health is going to reflect the values of this profession, it needs more veterinary voices in more rooms. That starts with one conversation, one raised hand, one yes you weren't sure you were ready to give. If you want to connect with Dr. Natalie Marks or learn more about VANE and what they are building, links are in the show notes.

And if you haven't heard Natalie's full career story, I encourage you to go back and listen to her previous episode on That Life Reimagined. I'll link that below as well. For the key takeaways from today's conversation, head over to the Sprinkle of Wisdom Substack for the Podcast Club guide. Please subscribe, that means a lot, and share this episode with one veterinary professional in your life who has been waiting for permission to step into a bigger role.

Tell them from Natalie, [00:29:00] "Nobody is gonna give it to you, so go for it." And until next time, keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life Yeah. So thank you so much.