8 Weeks to Increased Profit With Robert Reed of Ergo

The last ten minutes of a service can make or break the whole visit. We invited Robert Reed, founder of Ergo Research and a celebrated educator in professional beauty, to unpack why finishing is so often overlooked and how to turn it into a repeatable system that delights guests, protects stylists’ bodies, and drives real revenue. From the psychology of open-ended questions to the ergonomics of airflow and sectioning, we map a path that makes blowouts teachable, consistent, and profitable.

We dig into the core problem: finishing is usually demonstrated, not trained. Robert shows how to align the finish with the haircut’s intent, use pre-grooming to detangle and direct hair, and guide the conversation back to hair with simple prompts like “Will you show me how you start at home?” With tens of millions of weekly YouTube views on blow drying and detangling, clients clearly want help. When we “touch it, talk about it,” narrating why we chose each product and tool, retail becomes education, not a pitch, and clients leave knowing exactly how to refresh volume, frame their face, and extend day-two wear.

Owners will find a clear business case. Robert outlines an eight-week “Art of the Blow Dry” focus that builds new conversational habits, lifts engagement, and measurably increases sales—especially brushes, the low-hanging fruit most guests use but rarely buy from salons. We share practical routines for huddles, team-led product stories, and station-based teaching that keep finishing front and center without feeling scripted. Add in ergonomic technique—treating the round brush like a roller with a handle, neutral wrist positions, and smart sectioning—and stylists get better results with less fatigue.

If you’re ready to elevate standards, improve at-home re-creation, and make the last ten minutes your signature, this conversation offers the playbook. Subscribe, share with your team, and leave a review with the one finishing question you’ll start asking guests this week.

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The Beauty Business Strategies Podcast is designed to give salon, spa, medspa, barbershop, and lash studio owners, just like you, quick tips to make more money, inspire your team, and create world-class client experiences.

Transcript

Meet Robert Reed And Ergo

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hey everybody, welcome to the Beauty Business Strategies podcast. My name is Robert Moraglia, and I will be your host. Today I'm really excited to welcome Robert Reed, who is the founder of Ergo Research, Inc. and one of the most respected voices in the professional beauty industry. With over four decades of experience spanning education, manufacturing, and brand leadership, Robert has inspired tens of thousands of stylists through the commitment to ergonomics, craftsmanship, and service. His work continues to shape how professionals create, perform, and care for their craft at the highest level. Robert, welcome. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

You know, I'm terrific. It's the beginning of a week. Um, it's the beginning of a new year. So there's a lot going on, uh, which really is a result of everything that took place last year. Uh, I often say to my team, what's happening to you today is the result of something you did or didn't do six months ago. So here we are.

Why Finishing Gets Overlooked

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Exactly. Here we are. Here we are. So I really wanted to begin our conversation, maybe picking up where you and I were talking as we were discussing this, our time together, is um finishing is something every stylist does every day. That is just a part of what we do. Yet we rarely train it intentionally. Um, why do you think finishing has become one of the most overlooked skills in our industry?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

It could be because for some people it's drudgery. Uh, blow drying is singly the most fatiguing aspect to hairdressing. And when you're you know looking at one of your guests who has shoulder length, a hair that is, you know, super thick, uh, you're just wanting to get it done. But um successful salons are successful because they have many disciplines. And they're disciplines about answering the phone, disciplines about uh conducting a guest consultation. These are generally taught uh in a hands-on and participating manner. Same thing for hair color, haircutting, these are all hands-on disciplines. But when it comes to finishing, it's almost always taught through demonstration. And when you demonstrate something, everyone in your audience sees it, interprets it, and does it a little bit differently. Right. So that's a big challenge for a salon owner is to ensure a consistent, excellent end result. And finishing is just one of those things that, you know, it's often uh a byproduct of a product demonstration. It's just something that's not in the focus uh for everyone, uh, but it is for the guest because it's a culmination of the salon experience.

Defining A Professional Finish

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Exactly. That becomes the that really is the guest experience. The whole thing could be great, but if the finish isn't quite it, then the whole experience kind of gets uh downgraded to not quite it. So when you think about a blowout or a finished look, what actually separates a good finish from a truly professional one?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Well, it would be the uh intent of the hairdresser. You know, if they have an intention to uh uh correlate their finish with their haircut, if they are even aware about how to do that, uh that's gonna end up being a great finish. But a better finish. A great finish is when the guest is engaged in learning about how to recreate their hairstyle at home. Uh I had a meeting just this past week in Minneapolis with with the large salon group, and we were speaking about finishing. Uh they have some 170 uh hairdressers, uh over 70 hair colorists on staff, and they hadn't thought about some of the questions we posed to them about learning what your guest needs to know about their finish. Um so it it was very interesting. I did some research as we entered this new year about what the guest needs and wants to know. And I learned that on YouTube there are more than 38 million weekly views on blow drying your hair at home.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

That would tell us that somebody somewhere would like a little more education or help on how to do that.

What Guests Want To Learn

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, it's also interesting. 28 million weekly views on how to detangle your hair. Oh my goodness. These are such you know important bits of information for a guest to be able to maintain their hair at home with confidence and confidence that is it's a great starting point to learn what the guest needs to know.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Well, so then let's let's get into that. How do we get to know what our guests need? What are we we're doing? You know, I've been in some places where I've gone to get my hair cut, and they're like, same thing. And that always makes me cringe. When we had our salon, one of one of our team members, she was the guest was on her way in, she wasn't arrived yet. And I'm I'm I walk by and I say, What are you doing? She goes, Oh, I'm mixing her hair, she's getting the same thing. I'm like, Oh, is she here? And she's like, Oh no, she always gets the same thing. And I was like, Oh, big miss, big miss on our part. We had to re-educate.

Open‑Ended Questions That Teach

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Right. Think about this, you know. Um, of course, today so much information is automated. Uh, maybe a stylist comes in and they look at their schedule and they see who's gonna be in their chair that day. In the old days, uh, where the appointments used to be written into an appointment book, a successful hairdresser looked at their appointments for the next day and they started to think, what am I gonna do for Mrs. Jones? Right. What am I gonna introduce Mrs. Jones to? What do I need to be prepared for to serve Mrs. Jones to the best of my ability? So, you know, it is it would be a good basic premise for every day to firstly be committed to deliver 100% of what you know to each guest one at a time, without any assumptions, and secondly, to start thinking about how to guide them into new looks because it keeps your relationship fresh with them. It keeps them constantly um moving forward, new color, a new haircut. Uh they begin to look to you for you know w what they where they should be. What they might want to uh have is uh something new for the summer, something for the fall, thinking about color. There are many things that we can do to start preparing for each of the guests. When it comes to finishing, we've learned one of the simplest things to do to understand what they need to know is to ask open-ended questions. One of the questions might be, before you turn on a blow dryer, to place a brush in a guest's hand and ask them, Will you show me how you get started with your blow dry at home? This will allow the guest to express what they know, what they need to know, what they're fearful of. And there's some really common responses. One response is, you know, I'm really not so good with those things. And the hairdresser might reply, Well, that's why you're in my chair. Today I'm going to share with you how to frame your face or how to create more volume in the crown. Um, it might be a response that that kind of brush gets caught in my hair. That's an opportunity to teach them how to prepare their hair for a round brush. Because we know you can't use a round brush if the hair has any tangles in it. That's why most hairdressers detangle the hair. In our Art of the Blow Dry class, we call it pre-grooming, getting all the hair moving in the same direction. It allows you to share with the guests how to detangle their hair. These are common things that they want to know.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

It seems simple, but we get caught up as stylists in the day. We get caught up in the moment when we're behind. And what do we got to do next? Who's coming in next? Where do I what do I got to do? Um, and I think then that's where we kind of unplug from being present in the moment with our guests and actually hearing the answer to the questions that we're asking. Those questions should be like innate, it just something that we automatically do, but we also need to listen and be in the present moment so that we can help guide them through whatever it is that they're um discussing or sharing about what their difficulties are and why they don't attempt this at home, why they don't try to do their own, blow dry their own hair, etc.

Refocusing Chair Talk On Hair

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah. Well, think about this. You know, every guest is in the chair for the quality of the hair. Of course, this alone is a social space. And oftentimes, in that time that a guest is in the chair, they want to share with you everything about their life. That's why hairdressing is sometimes so emotionally fatiguing. But a guest ultimately is there for the hair. So, how can you turn the conversation from the social uh love your bag? Where have you been, where have you eaten? Because ultimately you need to get back to the hair. So that's why asking open-ended questions like, uh, will you show me how you get started with your blow dry at home redirects the conversation to the hair and allows you to complete that visit by delivering everything you know about uh as a professional, everything that you know. It also allows you to share with the guest why you've selected certain products, curated a regimen for them, because you know you're already silently endorsing the products and tools that you're using, but the guest really wants to know.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, you're using it, but yes, they want they want to be educated. They want to know what it is that you're doing. What's the tips, what's the tricks? Um, you know, so why do you think most salons train cutting and color so deeply, but rarely train finishing as a system or a repeatable skill?

Why Salons Skip Finishing Training

SPEAKER_01 11:33

You know, that that's an interesting question because it also calls uh as a question, you know, how do you measure the return on your investment for teaching uh for investing in haircutting education? Uh investing in hair color education. It's really difficult to measure that when it comes to something like a finishing class or the art of the blow dry is what we call it. The engagement that you see during asking some of the open-ended questions, like, will you show me, you know, or did you know? You know, we're always asking open-ended questions, you can visually see those guests getting engaged. And ultimately, because of the heightened conversation uh and the focus on what's been selected for them during their visit, you're gonna see an increase in sales. Uh, when it comes to brushes, you know, that's really we consider low-hanging fruit because many guests most guests use a brush at home, but they didn't purchase it from the salon. They just don't know all the reasons they should, and they don't have anyone at a Walmart or an Ulta teaching them the correct brush to select and how to use it. So it's measurable.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah. Yeah. I think we forget about that, that that education really does drive, you know, whether it's a brush, uh, like you said, a hairdryer or styling products, it really does drive that retail sale, so to speak, because the more confident we are as stylists in our products that we're using and in more the more confident we are in making the recommendation, then you know, we've already increased our opportunity for that guest to go ahead and make the purchase. Um, you know, I don't know what the the measurable percentage is overall, but I I would say at least giving that opportunity, you're at least creating a 50-50 chance for that guest to make the to make the yes, you know, to make that yes happen.

Education That Drives Retail

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah, here at Ergo, you know, we're very strategic. We're not the largest company in the world, uh, not even in our category. So we have to really think strategically about the outcome that we want to experience, and we go backwards in all the steps necessary to achieve that consistent, excellent outcome. We both know a salon owner that implemented some of the strategies we have, uh firstly by providing stylists with insight about the tools they're using, because every stylist likes to know how things work so they understand the best tools and products to select, implementing it with some knowledge about how to engage with the guest to learn what the guest needs to know so you can fulfill that need. And during a launch strategy, which for us typically is eight weeks in duration, we have launches of eight weeks because we're looking to foster uh some new conversational habits with the stylist by asking these open-ended questions. And the result of a launch with this particular salon owner, in fact, the two of them were almost parallel, in their salons over an eight-week period, they generated over twelve thousand dollars in brush sales, which is magnificent. We just created some focus on it. But they also experienced an uptick in their overall hair care sales of their preferred brands. In one instance, sales were up 18% year over year in their hair care category. So fostering conversations about how to care for your hair leads to conversations about what's necessary to recreate your hair at home, and therefore this kind of education is very measurable in its ROI.

Systems, Huddles, And Product Stories

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Well, and I I heard the word focused. It's what's where we we focus. And sometimes I guess the reason I'm I'm hooked into that word is because we got a lot of care products that we're we're using in, you know, on the floor in our companies. And sometimes they're different brands, but we do have our same five that we reach for. And we then get, you know, I'm gonna say laxataisical about, you know, I use this all the time. So, you know, I don't think about it as being more than that. Um, but you know, with strategies, we started using more systematic things where during huddles, we start talking about our favorite cocktailing of different products, or we start going through the product knowledge uh more regularly, and we have our team members introduce different things and uh tell us more about the why. Why do we use this? What would we tell what's interesting about it that we would tell our guests about it, tell the story about it, what's our experiential outcome? It's the same with our tools, our hot tools, our brushes, all those things that are available or that we make available for our clients. Um and we've found that when we within the cycle of you know, of talking about the product or the tools, you know, we would definitely see a rise in sales and it would be consistent and great. And but we're forgetful. We're doing our thing. We do our thing and then we forget and we start the fo we have to focus. We have to, it has to be put in front of us, or we have a system of how we remember the things that we're doing to create that focus. Because then if it's in our focus or in our awareness, then we can share it with our guests and um and help it help bring it into their awareness and the why, uh the purpose or the because of what this is going to do for them, which is hopefully make their their look uh consistent and easy to maintain at home.

Owners Guiding Soft Skills

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah. Let me speak to the salon owners out there. One of one of the greatest challenges of being a business owner, myself included, is to know what your team is doing and saying. Right? The doing is the technical training you provide them. The soft skills, those conversational skills are just as important. So, what do you know about what your team is going to say? You may not be able to give them a specific dialogue. You can give them some guidance. But here's something that makes it so easy. Uh, guests love stories, right? They love to hear about where the hairdresser's been, but they also love to know how the hairdresser has uh chosen to do something or uh where they've been, the education that they've received. So one of my longtime great friends, Ann Mincy, told me guests love stories, so if you touch it, talk about it. So they may not your guest may not know everything about the pair of scissors that you have. You know, you can tell us, pick up a pair of scissors and ask a guest, did I ever tell you about when I went to New York and got these scissors? The show was incredible. I was introduced to these scissors. Do you know these scissors are twelve hundred dollars? These kind of stories are of interest to the guest. It tells them a little bit more about the dedication you have to education, uh, the extent you go to get that education. Oh my gosh, you went to New York, that's a crazy place. So that's one way uh a salon owner can ensure that their stylists are engaging with the guest, is just to say, for this week, let's just tell some stories about what's on our station. I like that. Tell stories about, by the way, this you may think this is just a comb, but this comb is from Japan. Uh, this comb uh it's crazy, but this comb is$25. You know, I only use these combs because of the way the teeth move through the hair. Let's just engage with the guest and get them back into the hair conversation. Overall, the end result is gonna be great because you've increased the level of engagement between your stylist and the guest in the in the culmination of the time that they spend in the chair.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

I love that. That's that's great because that gives us a focus of okay, what are the things I'm gonna talk about? I'm gonna set those up on my station or around my mirror or on my tool cabinet. And I know that I can talk because believe me, having the same conversation over and over and over again in a day, in a week, in a month is a lot. Um, so being able to circulate through uh some of your stories throughout the day, it probably makes it interesting for you. Hopefully the guest is engaged and is going to ask you some more deeper questions, which then allows you to uh explain more on the why of the particular uh topic that you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Right. If we're just telling stories and we we're gonna pick up things in a different order that are on our station, you know, it's it's fresh each time. The objective is let's just tell stories about what's on our station. And because of, you know, it's not a structured directive to the stylist, make sure you say this. Uh, the end result is going to be the same. So it's a little bit of trickery uh to guide the conversations and elevate the engagement, but ultimately that's what the guest is there for. That's what the guests want to know, that's what the guest should receive as information. Makes them even more proud to have chosen to sit in that chair.

“If You Touch It, Talk About It”

SPEAKER_00 22:29

It's true because when the minute you say, okay, these are the three items we need to sell today, nobody wants to do it, nobody remembers to do it. It's not natural, like you're saying, where you have it, uh you have items up there, things that you use, and you have a story, a why, uh um, an experience. You know, hey, I started using this three weeks ago, and I've already seen a difference in the texture of my hair or whatever. Those kinds of things mean a lot to a guest because they don't feel like they're being sold to. They just feel like you're like telling them something amazing that's really working and that they and they will automatically put that in their mind to consider uh as an opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

So when I'm sorry for talking over you, but when it comes to guest satisfaction, nothing great happens for a guest. When you think about it, and we ask dials, when do you think the service is over? And they might say, you know, when I see a smile in the mirror. That is very heartwarming. Or it might they might say, when I get a great tip. Or someone might say, when I rebook them. But ultimately, the service is over a day or two, maybe more, after the guest leaves the salon and they're able to recreate their hair at home with the products and the tools that you used yourself in the salon. That's when service really that service wheel is really complete.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah, I like that. Um, I mean, you can there's so many ways to do that to make sure that the guest gets that help that they need by creating your own YouTube link or through the through the company creating a uh a back end of videos that you can share with your guests on how to uh you know finish out their hair, um, or make um, I know my partner when he does bangs and he's doing them, he always does Superman, up, up and away. And uh so that they remember that because it's silly. It made them laugh. But when they do it at home, they'll giggle a little bit, but they they get it, they remember it.

Service Ends At Home Re‑Creation

SPEAKER_01 24:52

I get it. By the way, um, creating curtain bangs was also one of the leading search terms in YouTube. I think it was something like 22 million views a week. Oh my gosh. That little curtain bang, you know, thing that passed through our industry. Um, it's just wrong.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yeah, it sure is. So when leaders elevate finishing as a priority, what message does that send to the team about standards and professionalism?

Elevating Standards In Finishing

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Aaron Ross Powell You know, some hairdressers are really proud of their blow dries, they get great joy in them. They're almost always known as in the salon as a blow dry queen or king. But there are also some others who don't feel confident uh in their finishing because they don't achieve consistent end results. We introduce uh finishing in the art of the blow dryer as a discipline that for those who already love blow drying and feel accomplished, it introduces an ergonomic approach that takes less wear and tear in their body, often gives them longer lasting results, and many times a new approach or a new trick, so to speak, for those who lack confidence, because in beauty schools they don't necessarily teach finishing as a discipline. So they come into the salons, every hairdresser, every salon owner wants someone to be a great finisher, but they don't have the skills. The Art of the Blow Dry provides a roadmap that correlates the finish with the haircut. And you know, it goes back to how did the art of the blow dry get created. I asked this question of my Sasson colleagues, and they told me the use of a round brush is nothing more than a curler, uh pardon me, um a um roller with a handle. So we we teach this approach also. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

So if so then if finishing was viewed as a profit strategy instead of just a technical skill, how might salons train differently? So uh and what I'm leading to is that you've you've mentioned your art of the blow dry. What does that entail for um uh a company? You know, what does that look like? What's that process for them if they were interested in that?

SPEAKER_01 27:38

If someone's interested in the art of the blow dry, uh I would welcome their inquiry. It it is a discipline that has a measurable return on investment. Uh we have all sorts of quick video links where they can see some of our core fundamentals, they can see some evaluations from other salon stylists, because it's always good to know how your team is going to receive some education or the likelihood that they're going to receive it in the way that you intend them to receive it and implement it. So I welcome someone's inquiry. They can reach me very easily through our website, they can send a chat through Instagram, or they can write me directly at Robert at ergostylingtools.com and I can provide them this information. But finishing is the culmination of the visit. It's one of the few areas where you can visually see the engagement of a guest and a stylist. You can see everything that you've striven for in ensuring that a guest has a great experience. It all boils down to the finish, and we're really excited that we've been invited into many salons in the strategies world to introduce the Art of the Blow Dry.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

That's awesome. That's great. You're also going to um, you're one of our sponsors at Next in Austin. Um, and we're really looking forward to uh that time.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yeah, we're excited about it. Unfortunately, we can't visit this year, but we look forward to 2027, possibly even later this year if Strategies has an event. You know, being uh in the room with strategies coaches and strategy salon owners, it's always inspiring to us. It's a learning experience for us. It's helped shape and evolve us as a company to provide education that is really purposeful and measurable.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

So that brings up a good question. Um so how did how did uh how did we connect? How did strategies and ergo connect?

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Oh, this goes back some years ago uh to the to Neil's newsletter. And now I can't remember if it was called Strategies, but I always admired him because he was spunky. You know, he he said things that were on his mind, even if they were counter to making friendships in the industry. They were good for the salon owners and industry. Neil and I uh shared some time at an Aveda event that took place in Manhattan Beach. We went out to lunch afterwards, and I was really taken by the commitment that Strategies had to create this different type of team environment. And uh uh this is maybe our tenth or eleventh year of a relationship with Strategies, and and we treasure it. Uh, we speak about it all the time in how we approach um working with salon owners or deciding who we want to spend time with, uh, because we have you know so many different like distractions about opportunities that may not be long-term strategies in building business. Awesome.

Partnering With Strategies

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Thank you. If there was one more thing that you would say to the the salon uh owners out there, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Do everything with intention. I know that uh the experience I've gained from visiting tens of thousands of salons is that there are many ways to be successful. The most successful salon owners uh develop they create a strategy, they train to the strategy, they implement the strategy, they measure the strategy, and they're constantly revising the strategy. So do things with intention.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Awesome. Thank you so much, Robert. Um, so glad to have that we were able to have this time together. Um I'm gonna have Jen clip that right there. And I'll start my outro again. A big thank you to you, Robert Reed, for joining us today on today's episode of Beauty Business Strategies Podcast. If you want to learn more about Robert and the team at Ergo Research Inc. or check out their styling tools at ErgostylingTools.com, and we'll drop the link in the description. Thank you again so much for being here today. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

You're welcome. And you know, anyone who reaches out to me who doesn't have a familiarity with Ergo, it's always my pleasure to send out a collection of our brushes for them to share with their team and they can see the excitement that we can generate.

Do Everything With Intention

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Thank you. That is so nice. Thank you so much, Robert. Uh, have a great afternoon. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

As we always like to say, let the shine be with you. Let the shine be with you.