EXPERIENCE 223 | Building a Social Enterprise with Joe & Melissa Basta of Tellus Outdoor Gear

In this episode of the Loco Experience Podcast, I sit down with Joe and Melissa Basta, co-founders of Tellus, an outdoor apparel brand (and social enterprise) based in Fort Collins. They share their founding story, focusing on their commitment to sustainability using recycled or organic materials and donating 100% of their net profits to environmental initiatives. Melissa explains her role in overseeing marketing and the company's give-back programs, while Joe discusses his background in Outward Bound and Peace Corps, which influenced their company's mission and values. They discuss the challenges and successes of launching their flagship store in Fort Collins.  

Tellus was seeded with funds from the sale of a previous business, Rodelle, which Joe developed into a vertically integrated vanilla extract business, connecting hundreds of farmers in Madagascar with millions of shoppers in Costco and Trader Joe’s.

The conversation also delves into their personal lives, including their mutual “early life crises” that led them to meet in the Peace Corps, their family dynamics and children, and how they balance their professional and personal lives. Joe and Melissa emphasize the importance of experiences, travel, and flexibility for young people figuring out their career and life journey, and the episode wraps up with a thoughtful discussion on the future of their business and their commitment to making a positive impact on the planet.  They’ve got great gear, a wonderful mission, and strong conversation skills, and I know you’ll enjoy getting to know my latest guests, Joe & Melissa Basta.  

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In this episode of the Local Experience Podcast, I sat down with Joe and Melissa Basta, co-founders of Telus, an outdoor apparel brand and social enterprise based in Fort Collins. They share their founding story, focusing on their commitment to sustainability using recycled or organic materials, and donating 100% of their net profits to environmental initiatives. Melissa explains her role in overseeing marketing and the company's give back programs. While Joe discusses his background in Outward Bound and Peace Corps, which influenced their company's mission and values, they discussed the challenges and successes of launching their flagship store in Fort Collins. Telus was seated with funds from the sale of a previous business Rodell, which Joe developed into a vertically integrated vanilla extract business, connecting hundreds of farmers in Madagascar with millions of shoppers at Costco and Trader Joe's. The conversation also delves into their personal lives, including their mutual early life crises that led them to meet in the Peace Corps, their family dynamics and children, and how they balance their personal and professional lives. Joe and Melissa emphasized the importance of experiences, travel and flexibility for young people figuring out their career and life journey. And the episode wraps up with a thoughtful discussion of the future of their business and their commitment to making a positive impact on the planet. They've got great gear, a wonderful mission and strong conversation skills, and I know you'll enjoy getting to know my latest guests, Joe and Melissa Basta. Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. My guest today are Joe and Melissa Busta. Sounds like our rhymes like rhymes with pasta. Mm-hmm. And they are the co-founders and chief volunteers at Telus. And so fun to say it this way. But, uh, Melissa, why don't you tell us what TELUS is all about? Well, Telus um, is an outdoor apparel brand local here to Fort Collins. We started, um, probably about three and a half years ago. Mm-hmm. Um, and we opened, officially opened, uh, our flagship store, big flagship store right here in Fort Collins in December of 2023. Okay. And tell us, uh, is outdoor gear of all sorts, is that right? Like. Uh, rain gear, backpacks. Mm-hmm. Like all of it. Um, when you think of what people like to do, uh, who live here in Fort Collins, I would think of, you know, anything you do outside biking, hiking, you know, paddle boarding. Um, yeah. We have everything from, you know, outdoor pants that you would hike in, uh, to shorts that you would hike in, um, to performance wear for running and, um, just working out. Isn't that, or walking your dog. Isn't that a crowded space? Like isn't there too many brands in that space already? It is a crowded space. Um, uh, but we're doing things a little bit differently. Um, a couple things that set us apart are we made the choice to make all of our products, uh, using recycled or organic materials, and we're a social enterprise in that we give back 100% of our net profits to environmental initiatives. Interesting. Are you allowed to retain net profits to grow your inventory and grow? We are. Yes. Okay. I mean, we cover overhead and then reinvest. Okay. Fair enough. But if, if the owners aren't gonna take any money out of this is what I'm hearing. Yes, that is true. That's so awesome. And, uh, how long did this sit in the cooker for? Like was this an idea for years or did it like, after I knew you had a business journey before Joe and you had a prior career. Mm-hmm. Yes. I would say it, it stewed for a while. And this is actually probably a better question for Joe to answer because it, it goes all the way back to his days, um, probably stemming from your days in Outward Bound and then coming outta Peace Corps and. Let's do it and where you're at. Sure. So, um, right outta college, I was a, actually, um, I worked for Colorado Outward Bound. Okay. Did that for, uh, two seasons. I was, uh, an instructor for out outdoor leadership program. Okay. Uh, really, uh, gave me the bug for all things outdoors, especially in Cal, Colorado. I was stationed in Silverton, Colorado. Uh, worked with, uh, disadvantaged use, um, 21 day programs out there. Okay. So we're actually, uh, out in the wilderness for 21 days. Were you trained to do this? Were you like a counselor or something? Uh, upward Bound does train train you I see. As an instructor. Okay. So you, you do it an intensive training for a few months prior to the program starting. Gotcha. Gotcha. So, uh, and I actually, I was a student of Upward Bound when I was 16, which it did a lot for me as well. Oh yeah. And, uh, so I got the bug early on in my life. So I was always in, in the mountains, playing in the mountains, hiking the mountains, camping in the mountains, uh, for many, many years. And I was always a gearhead. And, uh, anytime my body, you know,$200 plus jacket, I was always evaluating it, wondering why this pocket was here, wondering why there wasn't a pocket there. Mm-hmm. Durability, longevity. It was, you know, actually rainproof or. You know, rain res resistance. Yeah. So, uh, when I sold my previous business, uh, which was here in town in 2019, um, in 2020, obviously COVID hits. And that was really the time that Melissa and I started talking about can we build a true social enterprise within this space? Which as you mentioned, is a very crowded space. But where we really differentiate ourselves is the a hundred percent give back, give back. After all, you know, all of our employees are play paid, our utilities are paid, uh, overhead, uh, reinvesting in the company. So, uh, so far so good. Uh, we've been able to, to give these past, past two years now to the Nature Conservancy, which is our main giving partner. Okay. Um, it's actually through the, uh, Boulder chapter and in, in the giving you get to choose, uh, point of sale. Uh, what's dear to your heart? Uh, it's reforestation here within Colorado Conservation US wide, which is called, uh, America the Beautiful, as well as, uh, coral Reef Protection, which is an international program with them. Yeah. That's coral's such a fascinating element of the world. Mm-hmm. Uh, have you heard this? That if they have the same kind of coral from the same part of the world, but you take one piece and put it under a bucket, under a sink in the uk, it'll still blossom at the same time. Interesting that coral wood in that original destination or in Brazil did not know that. Yeah. They're all like somehow, like telepathically con itself? No, they're like, I dunno. They're connected somehow. Interesting. Even without access to tides or water or Wow. Sun or moon, they somehow reproduce the same species on the same day they bloom together. It's interesting. I mean, we, we follow a fair amount of groups, um, in coral Reef work through our, um, social media and watching the ones that have the coral reef gardens is really interesting in how they, I mean, they're literally underwater gardens. Yeah. And I was just watching actually, a. Meat Eater podcast, our meat eater video the other night. Mm-hmm. On all the fish that are around all the oil rigs off of Texas and Louisiana. Mm-hmm. Especially in particularly, they started decommissioning them and tipping'em over and stuff, but then other boats would hit'em sometimes and different things. And so they would generally just leave'em stand now and they're like, there's coral growing all over. Yeah. Essentially becoming a reef itself. Yeah. It's becoming a reef right there. So interest. Anyway, I digress. Interesting. Mm-hmm. So a, a sustainable cause. So over time you want it to grow and grow presumably. Right. Offer more products, employ more people, um. Correct. And give more dollars. The, the more we we grow, the more we can give Yeah. To these causes. And so only being a year and a half into it, we're, we're still, you know, in startup mode. Sure. You know, here in Fort Collins with our flagship store being here, as Melissa said, off of Lyndon Street, downtown Fort Collins, and then online sales. So we, uh, we are a little different. We're direct to consumer, so we do not sell wholesale Okay. To any wholesalers. Like, can't get it on Amazon or anything. You can't get it to Amazon or REI Nice. Locally here at Jack's. Uh, and the reason why we're doing that mainly is first off, we, we do have lower volumes. Yep. We have very high quality goods as far as, um, we stand behind them. I, I think we, we, we produce roughly 36 pieces, um, mostly clothing. Um, some accessories like duffel bags, backpacks, um, and as Melissa said, all made out a recycle and organic material, but, uh, really direct to consumer gives us, you know, more profit, you know, to us that we can give, you know, to the causes. Yeah. Fair enough. Is there any other companies doing that? Uh, most of our competitors, the majority of the, our larger competitors, obviously you got Patagonia, you have Nor Face, you have Coda Epoxy, the majority of those companies, it's 1% back to the planet. We're right, right. We're a hundred percent back to the planet. In other categories, are there companies, did you study other completely give back kind of organizations? Good question. Good question. I, I was in the, uh, food product, uh, business prior to this business, uh, for 20 years. And we specialized in baking ingredients and really, uh, I was. Always fascinated with Newman's own, which was okay, your, your first really upscale food products. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and so here, here, here, you, you have a guy like Paul Newman, successful Academy Award winner. He race cars. Right. Right. He accomplished everything he wanted. And so later in his career, he actually started Newman's own, you know, food products. I, I believe starting with salad dressing and now I believe, I believe there's probably about 40, 50 different products. Yeah. So that's a hundred, a hundred percent of those profits go to charitable causes. Okay. And so I was always fascinated with that concept and that model. Yeah. Which gave us the idea that was kind, inspirational product, you know, towards this in industry, the outdoor apparel industry. Yeah. How does shipping work and stuff, if you're, uh, you gotta become experts at. Shipping then too, right? If you're direct cons to consumer, you're using FedEx or Correct. Whatever. It's, it's, that's one of the easiest parts is, you know, we get an order in and we ship it through UUPS, United States Postal Service or FedEx. Yeah. You know, when an order comes in and it just, whatever size box, whatever price is, you probably have the system even checks it out. You order a large jacket and a t-shirt and a mug. We, we back it up and actually re recycled recycled bags from post consumer recycle bags and, uh, then we deliver it to your doorstep. I dig it. Mm-hmm. What's your like timeline you like, are you trying to spin this thing up and then be able to, I mean, you're not very old. But, you know, running a startup is hard and like, how, what do you, what do you wanna achieve here? Sure, sure. Um, the first, uh, really three to five years we wanted to focus here locally on spreading the word here in northern Colorado. Yeah. Um, you know, over this area has grown to about 185,000 in population. Yeah. I think we just touch the surface of getting our message and, and, and the word out of, you know, and we're, we're actually in the River district, which is not in downtown, um, Fort Collins. It's not on the square. It's not, yeah. It's kind of on the edge. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's on the edge. On the edge. It's a growing upcoming area. Yep. So we're a bit of a destination, you know, word of mouth on a referral basis. So really we want to focus strictly on the flagship store. I believe, you know, with Fort Collins being such a vibrant economy with Colorado State University being here, and a lot of parents come in, students come in, they go back to, to their homes in different parts of the country. Mm-hmm. Yep. And what we're finding out, you know, uh, with that is the word is spreading to these different locations. Yeah, yeah. Uh, we have, you know, parents that stop by the store. Mm-hmm. They, they buy a piece or two and, um, I would say probably about 50% of our online orders are coming from reorders mm-hmm. For people who've actually visited a store. That's cool. Fort Collins. Mm-hmm. And with Fort Collins being a, a, a tourist destination as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's really helping, helping us tremendously. Well, and like good job making your brand highly visible, but not obnoxious on every item you have. Like, you can't miss it, but it's not like we like to call it simple elegance. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, I think that's great. Um, and so really this kind of market, I just, a couple weeks ago I had a Russian economist on and he talked about the, the importance of kind of organic growth brands that get so kind of much love and attention and strong and popular within their. Region. They don't need to be spun up by a bunch of private equity or have a bunch of investors, but they get, they catch on and then they're able to kind of escape the gravity of that region. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we're very fortunate to be, you're looking at the two primary investors, so, right. You know, in previous companies I worked with private equity, e equity, I worked with banks. Um, and really we wanted to start this off small where we don't have that pressure from outside groups. Uh, really trying to ramp you up to, you know, how do you, how fast can you get to your first million? How fast can you get to your, you know, your$5 million in sales? So, so you really hit the nail on the head as far as growing organically. Mm-hmm. There's really no pressure on our end to, to ramp this up, you know, uh, going from zero to 60 in 3.2 seconds. Yeah. We really do want to take our time and do, yeah. It could be a slow money play regardless. Correct. Melissa, how do you guys divide what you do? What are, what are each of you best at in this vision, in this journey? You know, that's a good question. Um, you know, one of our big company, um, slogans is Adventure with Purpose. And I feel like, you know, our backgrounds what we each bring to the table. Um, you know, Joe being, you know, the big outdoor person and you know. Being in the gearhead, whatever, all that. Yeah, the gearhead and all that. Um, and my background's really in public relations and public affairs and over the years I've worked on lots of issues. So for me, the part of the business that I work most on is kind of our outward facing, um, working with the marketing team, but then also on the give back. Um, and so I spent a lot of time kind of researching the organizations, um, and we eventually landed on the Nature Conservancy. So I would say I do a lot of that piece. Um, Joe focuses a lot on the operations, um, with his background from his previous business as well. I think. So we compliment each other that way. Um. Do you have anything to add to that? No, I, well, we, we definitely have two different complete skill sets. Yeah. With, with me Melissa's background in public relations, uh, her previous employment well with National Geographic, which she is very humble. She doesn't like to bring that up. Talk more about that. So, uh, yeah. And then supply chain too. I, I have a, mm-hmm. Pretty, pretty substantial background in supply chain. And our goods are made in Vietnam. Uh, we chose Vietnam'cause they're known for higher, higher quality goods. Okay. So a hundred percent of our products are made, um, in Vietnam. Uh, obviously we designed'em here locally. Uh, we worked with a local designer as well as Collaborated Lake in Colorado State University, who has a great fashion and design school here. Okay. Yeah, that was my next question, school. So, yeah, talk to me more about the design. Like how many designs did you launch with? Where did you. Come up with them. How much were you involved? Oh, very involved. Very involved. Uh, I, I really, uh, play by if, if, if I'm not going to wear it, I'm, we're not going to produce this personally. And I think Melissa can say the same. It's, it's, it's a pretty intense, uh, tedious process. Yeah. You, you start with obviously the design. Um, and then once you get that design down, obviously textiles and fabrics is a, a big, very big part of that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, being fairly limited. Getting back to recycled organic materials. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we've come a long way. There's some Great, and can you like, look through catalogs looking for these recycled organic materials? Or how do you, you work, you work directly with the textiles? Okay. So, um, the vast majority of our textiles and our fabrics come from Taiwan. Mm-hmm. Um, we do have a, for our duffel bags, we do use a, uh, US textile here. Um, okay. Which is a, a great product that's, it's a hundred percent waterproof, a hundred percent recycled, and that goes in our duffel bags and our backpacks. Uh, so once you, once you kind of nail that down, you go through different variations of prototypes, uh, we probably averaged four prototypes per piece. Okay. Where you're, you're, you're changing dimensions, your changing in styles. Yeah. Yeah. Collar size all the way to your cuffs. Yeah. You know, um, so there's a substantial capital investment to launch something like this, but there is the intellectual mm-hmm. Investment is probably even more substantial in a way. So prior to opening up this store current, we spent roughly about two years really on deep dive on RD Yeah. Behind all those. So we spent, uh, close to two, two and a half years, um, developing the products. And then we launched the store in, um, December, 2023. Okay. Talk to me about. Uh, I guess not aspirational brands, because I think you're trying to be the best brand in your space. True. But what were you wearing before, I guess is probably the right way to answer that or ask that question. Great, great question. Great question. Good way to bring up the competition. Uh, you know, uh, really for, uh, for me personally, I, I think Patagonia does, does a fantastic job. Um, you know, they got a 50 year, both Patagonia nor Face has a roughly a 50 year headstart on this. Yep. Uh, Patagonian, in our opinion, they're doing a lot of the right. Things. Um, they have many, many products, you know, we're just a fraction of their products. Uh, they're very transparent, uh, which we, we stand by that as well. We, we want to be a hundred percent transparent. Uh, but we wanted to come out of the gates with a hundred percent of our products made out of either recycled organic materials. Yeah, I believe, uh. Patagonia, this is, and don't quote me on this, but I believe they touted about a year and a half ago that about 70% of their products are Okay. Are made outta recycling the organic materials. Yeah. I think it might be a little bit higher now, but, uh, they're, they're probably in the realm of 300 different products where Right, right. You know, compared to 36. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite different. And then we just started phase two. Um, I, we call that phase one with those initial products. We, we were just wrapping up phase two right now. Okay. So you've been back in the design room? We're back in the design and yeah, we're back in the design phase of things, uh, which is exciting. Um, these are gonna be more lifestyle pieces, um, which we're very excited about, but you're always thinking a year ahead. So everything that we're doing now is going to land roughly a year from now, roughly 12 months. So, um, just, just to pull a product out of a place like Vietnam, once you place that order, it's takes about six to eight months to bring back into the country. Mm-hmm. Now, I think, wasn't Vietnam one of the first, uh, countries to be like, we wanna make a deal, uh, on the tariff thing? Is that my memory? Yeah. Our heads have been definitely spinning. I'm sure you've been noticing there's some talk about tariffs and stuff with, uh, all, all this commotion, uh, and, and this dialogue about tariffs the last two months, uh, it's, it's put a lot of mid-size and small companies a bit of in Abin. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, since we're kind of newbies in the industry, we're not, well, no bargaining power throughout and we're, we're working with very, very small minimums. So, uh, we're hoping for some clarity here, um, soon. Yeah. We're hoping to stay with, uh, a, a number of our manufacturers who. We traveled, uh, several times to Vietnam to hand select these manufacturers who we feel they're doing all the right things. Yeah. Yeah. So we, we, we hope we can continue those relationships, but, uh, once again, uh, if we do need to pivot to other countries, um, that's what we're gonna be forced to do. Mm-hmm. But as it stands now, we just can't stomach the, uh, tariff difference. It's about two and a half times than what we were paying previously in a company our size, especially with a hundred percent give back, it, it just wouldn't make any sense. Mm-hmm. Um, that$250 jacket's gonna end up being a$400. Right, right, right. Just makes it impossible. Right. So, um, let's, uh. I think we'll come back to tell us a little bit Sure. And, and some of the products and design. But I wanna hear a little bit more about the business journey leading up to, um, and Joe dropped a, that you, you were with National Geographic for a time, is that mm-hmm. Yeah, it was, it was a short a time I, coming out of Peace Corps. Um, I ended up working for the channel, um, in their communications department working on public relations to launch the channel in markets outside the United States. Oh, wow. So the channel was fairly new. Yep. Um, and so my work was, you know, really working on getting the channel up and running, but then also, um, promoting some of the, you know, our, our filming the films that we make. Oh, sure. Yeah. Um, it's an incredible place to work, a place where, you know, turnover's very low, but you learn a lot from a place like that. Just, you know, the behind the scenes that goes. Into making those documentaries and just all the good work they do, you know? Sure. Um, there's the nonprofit side of National Geographic, and then there's the for-profit side, which is, you know, kind of their, the magazines, the channels. Okay. That are income generators. And then you have the Society which funds all the research. Oh, is that, and the explorers and mm-hmm. So it's almost like the Rotary Foundation or something like that, where there's this bucket that's been set aside through the membership and the profits generated by films and documentaries and whatever. Mm-hmm. I didn't, so it was, you know, I got to work on another example of kind of that the public, private, yeah. Social enterprise. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Mm-hmm. So, um. And then your career from there went into more PR especially kind of thing? Well, so coming out of college, I worked for a public affairs firm in Chicago. Okay. Uh, and that, you know, was an agency where I worked with, you know, several different clients and, you know, over the years there you kind of learn about what you like working on and what you don't. And the projects that I gravitated towards were the ones that seemed to give back more to the community. Um, you know, I can think of one specifically, it was a project called Art Smart. It was run by Marshall Fields at the time, and it was trying to bring, you know, art education back into the, you know, to inner city youth. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so I, those were the kinds of projects I gravitated toward. And then there were some that, you know, weren't as fun, um, yeah. Or weren't as meaningful. Uh, and then, um, I think Joe, you were in the same boat. We both kind of had this early life crisis, um, where, you know, I was maybe four years into to that job and decided I needed to make a change, um, and wanted to get more. Involved in work like that. Um, and so that's what led me to become a Peace Corps volunteer and Oh, you did it later? Mm-hmm. We did it later. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I, I, it was something I noodled on being from Central North Dakota mm-hmm. In a real small town. Like, I didn't even know anybody that I'd ever been to Peace Corps. Mm-hmm. But I'd learned about it and kind of looked into it, but I would've done it like right after college. College. Right. Which is what most people do. Yeah. Um, so I looked at a lot of different things. I was kind of, like I said, I was having the early life crisis and evaluating do I go back to school? Yeah. Do I need to change, you know, my job? Um, am I, do I just need an outward bound moment? Right. And, you know, peace Corps was one of the options on the table when I looked at everything. It, it kind of put together, you know, I wanted to be at the grassroots level. I wanted to be more connected to community project work. I wanted to be overseas somewhere. Mm-hmm. Um, and I also, you know. Wanted to be supported in some capacity. And so being Peace Corps volunteer, you know, they do provide you support, they provide you with insurance. If something happens, you know, they're there to evacuate you. Um, and so I, I just. I jumped off the edge. Interesting. Mm-hmm. And what did that look like for you? Like, like do, do they, do they pay you actually, like, do you come home from Peace Corps with more money than you left with and they provide you housing and stuff? Or is it pretty much like a It is, you get, while you're serving, you have a monthly stipend and it's kind of based off of the country that you live in, you know, and and how much, how much you need to eat. Right. And it's basically for, for, it's about that much food and housing. Right? Food and housing. Okay. Uh, it's not very much money. I think mine was maybe. Um, you know, right around$300 a month. Okay. Uh, so very small. And then after you complete your service, they give you, I can't remember how much it was, but maybe it was like$2,500 when you come out to kind of, okay. Pay deposit on the next apartment. Mm-hmm. Maybe make a change in your insurance plan because they're not gonna cover anymore. Put a down payment on a car. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Okay. Mm-hmm. So it is largely a, a give back kind of a notion right from the start. Mm-hmm. Strictly volunteer. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Covered just enough. Mm-hmm. And, and where were you? Peace Corps. So I was in Haiti. Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I was down there from, in cme, 96 to 2000. Okay. Okay. So it was unfortunately, probably better then than it is now. Oh. Mm-hmm. It was probably the, the. Most stable period in the history of the country, recent history of the country. And, you know, I was very fortunate to be there at that time and see it when it was like that. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Interesting. And was your Peace Corps tour also in Haiti? Dominican. Dominican Republic. Oh, okay. So it's connected to Haiti. Um, Melissa definitely had the, uh, tougher side side of the island. Sure. For, for sure. So I, I was a Peace Corps volunteer from the 2000, or I'm sorry, um, 19, was it 97 to 2000? So I was roughly, um, six months behind. Gotcha. Roughly a year behind. And that's where we met. And how, because like they would do some trainings for all the Peace Corps people from time to time, or like you were on the beach, on the Haiti side and you saw her Oh, that's, or that's, that's right. Um, actually, I, I went to school, uh, one of my best friends from, from undergrad went, went, had a study abroad program with Melissa. Okay. It was a summer program in, in London, I believe. Mm-hmm. And, uh. He, and when I mentioned I was going to the Peace Corps in the Demic Republic, he mentioned Melissa's name. Okay. And, uh, this is right when, you know, internet was coming out in the late nineties, so we would write from time to time we were actually hit by a major hurricane. Uh, right when we got down there, we were trading notes and we both got Dengue fever at the same time. Mm-hmm. Survived that obviously. Uh, and then roughly it was about two weeks before you left the country. Mm-hmm. You'd never been to the Dominican Republic side. And she reached out to me saying, Hey, are you gonna be around? And I was, was gonna be in the capitol at this given weekend. And, uh, it was Super Bowl weekend, which is when all the, all, all, all the, all the male, of course the male volunteers. Yeah. All the male volunteers would, would find, you know, the, the, the one TV screen, the one bar that Super Bowl's playing in. And I said, Hey, I am gonna be around, but if you wanna join 15, 15 US for a Super Bowl, by all means join us. And the the rest is kind of history. Really. Yeah. Was it just like there wasn't any other, uh, ladies or fellas around for either of you after that? Um, it's just that, you know, the funniest thing is Kurt, is we, we were both living in Chicago in the same time in the nineties. Hmm. We, and we had no idea. We, we interviewed at the same Peace Corps, peace Corps office in Chicago, roughly six months apart. And when we started talking, uh, we realized that we lived roughly four, four blocks away from each other. And fascinating. We, we shared the sa same el el stop, the same train stop. You know, we, we probably saw each other, you know, from time to time and didn't know it. I used to, you know, run in the mornings. I would run right in front of her, you know, apartment, you know, which with not knowing that she was there, of course, obviously. Of course. Yeah. And so the, the stars kind of aligned. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Yeah. That's, uh, here we are in the Peace Corps, in, in, in this, you know, developing country and we're meeting each other. Mm-hmm. And then after the Peace Corps, that's where you actually went to, uh, DC mm-hmm. And I, uh, after the Peace Corps, I came straight here to Fort Collins. Oh, yep. So you had to, had to slow coax her out. Back outta here. Took me a couple years. Uh, so I moved here in 2000 and, uh, she moved out here in 2002. Mm-hmm. And what did you move here for, Joe? Uh, actually it was, uh, the business opportunity. So the, uh, name of the business that I, uh, bought into was by the name of Custom Blending that's been in town for right off a link lane by the old airport. Uh, and then I did a, uh, roughly an eight year buy-in into the company. Okay. I changed the name to Del. Vanilla, um, which we're known for baking ingredients as I mentioned previously. Um, uh, a DM very large company, um, fortune 500 company bought us in 2019. Okay. Facility is in Harmony Tech Center, just, uh, just north of Fossil High School. Um, still there. Yeah. Uh, a d m's doing a great job. They're still growing the business. Uh, retained the vast majority of our employees and our, our, our head managers. Um, so it was a great relationship. And how like. You came here to buy into this thing? Like were you already in the industry or were you like Good question. Shopping for a good question Ingredient lending company in Chicago, I was a, I was a partner in a restaurant and catering business. Okay. So I was always kind of a foodie. Okay. And, uh, and then Asma said we both had early life crisis, uh, being, being in food service. Uh, you know, your, your weekends are gone. Your holidays are gone. Yep. Yep. I was working, you know, September 1st to January 1st, seven days a week, your families are getting together for holidays. You're, you're missing these, these precious moments. Yep. And it takes a certain type, you know, to be in the restaurant business. Uh, so I realized in my late twenties that I, I wanted to take a different path. Yeah. But I wanted to time out. Never, never studied abroad in my undergrad. And that was you, you know, my moment to say, Hey, I'm, I'm gonna jump off the edge and, you know, go to, to, to a foreign land. Yeah. And, and rethink things. And through a friend, actually, uh, one of my best friends, um, his, uh, it was his future father-in-law that owned this particular business. Oh, okay. And he was looking at an exit strategy at the time. Okay. Um, his, his name's John Conway. Um, he's been in, in this community for many, many years. Um, he, he grows, his, his whole family grew up here. I, I think he came in, in, in the seventies. And, uh, we, we hit it off and, uh, bus started buying into the company. Oh, okay. Uh, started with roughly, uh, seven employees at the time. Uh, ended up, so the buy-in wasn't super huge'cause it wasn't a real, but it was, it was mainly focused on, um, food service. Um, like US Foods, uh, Yancy's back in the day that US Foods bought Shamrock Foods. Yep. Yep. And then I really pivoted the company towards retail, um, retail food products. Okay. Okay. So with vanilla being a kind of our pillar, um, other baking, cocoa, lemon extract to almond extract, uh, we, we really kind of hung our hat on about seven products. Hmm. And with vanilla, it's 70% of your world's vanilla actually comes outta Madagascar. Yeah. So I had this crazy idea is that we're gonna start a processing facility in Madagascar, be the first North American, uh, company to do that, uh, to get vertically integrated. You know, within vanilla. So over the course of 15 years, we, we started a farmer network as probably changed your quality profile and your cost profile completely. We took about 30% of the supply chain by doing that. Um, McCormick being the 800 pound gorilla in the industry, uh, we were able to do a little bit of damage, especially with those products. Yeah, yeah. Um, so we work with about 80% of your North American retail grocers. Uh, Costco was our largest account for many years. They, they still have that account. Uh, trader Joe's, a large portion of my business back then was, uh, private label. Uh, and then 50% was under our own brand. So you can still go into places like King Supers and see the Dale brand. Yeah, yeah. But we did all of, uh, the Kirkland Signature, um, um. Worldwide with, with Costco, huh? A hundred percent of Trader Joe's, which still comes from Fort Collins. Interesting. Uh, Kroger, which still comes from the factory of Madagascar there or whatever, processing plant beans come from, from Madagascar, and then their process here in Fort Collins. Oh, wow, okay. Still today. Yeah. So, but, uh, bittersweet, uh, selling that business, uh, with my business partner, Dan, Dan Berlin, who's still local here. Oh. Um, and, uh, yeah, so that's where. We still had a, a kiddo in the house and, uh, you know, like, like I said, COVID hit and so I'm like, we gotta, I gotta do something with myself. Yeah. And, and Melissa and I were looking at each other and I'll tell us this. Yeah. I'm like, can we pull this off? So she's been, she's been a trooper, you know, on this journey. And especi especially focusing on, on the mar marketing and, and the public relation aspects of the company. Yeah. Did you tell me that you grew up in an entrepreneurial family? I did not. Okay. I did not. My, my, my dad was in, in the insurance industry. Okay. Yeah. How is it that you. Like, what skills did you bring to the table to move to Fort Collins and be part of this company? Uh, getting back to the restaurant catering business. Yeah. I guess you, you understood that industry and how to Yeah. And understood the nuts and bolts of, yeah. Cool. And then we did small, small business developments, um, in the Peace Corps. Oh, I see. So, oh, so you'd had kind of a business training background of sorts? We, we did. Okay. So, so I, I really, it was funny, my dad, I'm sorry to, it's sorry to like not give you enough credit. No. With my dad being in corporate America, he told me as a young man, he goes. Start your own business. And he got that, he, he, he really, he stuck that in my head at a very young age. So kind of coming out of undergrad, I had my head around like, I gotta start my own business. I gotta start my own business ing dad said, start my own business, and which I did. So yeah. Uh, on our, I'm personally on my third business and less has been part of two, two of the businesses. Okay. What was the, what was the third? Uh, the third is telus. Okay. Or the rather, the, the first was the restaurant in Chicago and the second Oh, gotcha. The second was ELL here. Okay. Okay. So before he coaxed you back out to Colorado here, you guys had a venture together right then? So early on in the ELL days, Melissa headed up our marketing efforts as well. I see, I see. I supported. Supported. So, um, Melissa, what were your other, uh, elements and how did you feel about this entrepreneurial lifestyle?'cause I'm, I'm guessing as a small seven employee business that's pivoting. There's probably a lot of interesting times. Yes. I mean, you know, um, you know, we're a slowly growing team. You know, we're what, we're four people with some contractors on the side, um, helping us kind of move this forward. Oh, with Telus? Yeah. Are you talking about specifically Telus or No, I was thinking about the, the early for Collins days. Like you had young children already. Mm-hmm. How many At that time we had three girls. Okay. Uh, young. And so, yeah, I, I continued to work up until we had our third, and then it was, you know, it became too much. Um, but some of the things I supported were, you know, the marketing, the pr, um, and then also when they decided to get more involved in Madagascar and helping them research like opportunities there to, you know. Support the local economy somehow. Um, and what was, what did that program end up being? I, as far as the farmer, the surge, the Farmer network with Surge, we built that to roughly 2,500 farmers. Oh, dang. Yeah. Yeah. So we started with 50 and we built it up to 2,500 farmers. So that, that's where the supply chain piece really. Mm-hmm. Really. Right. And probably even consistent growing methods. So they're helping you create consistent products that we, we had things like old team of agronomist. Uh, a large portion of our product was organic when organics were taken off. Huh. You know, in the early two thousands. Um, so that was a lot of fun. Brought me back to my Peace Corps, brought both of us back to our Peace Corps days. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, in this new endeavor would tell us, you know, getting back to places like Vietnam, it's very exciting for us, you know, getting, once again, getting us back to where we kind of started. Right. Well, and I guess having, uh, been already kind of had that early life crisis in the adventure of going to Haiti, you were. I guess fairly comfortable with this kind of entrepreneurial, not knowing what the future holds. Always lifestyle. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I guess, you know, when you, I get after an experience, psych Peace Corps, you're, you're open to a lot of, you know, new experiences. Yeah.'cause I think everything, you know, you're doing in peace Corps's, it's a lot of new experience, you know? Yeah. Everything is, is, you're right. It's, everything's new. Um, but when I think about the early days at Rodell and some of the things, you know, that I helped the team with going all the way back to that very first trade show that we did. Mm-hmm. Um, where, you know, we had no idea it was, you know, putting a, a small six foot table. You know, we were surrounded by all these other big companies with their big, fabulous booths, and there we were with our little six foot table and a handful of new products that you were trying to, um, bring to the table. And, um. And it worked, you know, but we were willing to throw it out there, you know? Yeah. We didn't look pretty and polished and you know, I feel like, you know, Telus was that small right now. Um, like Rodelle was back in the day. Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, nobody knew Rodelle and, um, you know, we threw it out there and started with the six foot table and the two of us at a food show, the Fancy Food Show in San Francisco. And, um, you know, here we are today, kind of, you know, pushing the same little rock along with Telus, which we're back to the six point table. We're back to the six foot table. Well, and, and it's been giving a little bit of money away already, which means you don't have to feed it anymore. You know, I assume you had to feed it quite a bit of money on a quite a bit of time at, at first. So we were able, um, which we were very happy about, we were able to, it was$23,000 we were able to give the Nature Conservancy. That's awesome. This passed, um, what month? A month ago? Mm-hmm. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, uh, well, and I'm sure, I don't know if you had like a. I'm sure you wrote like a business plan and, and stuff like that, but mm-hmm. But, you know, there's this portion is, is for our future and this is how much we can give Telus to get, to get established, you know? Correct, correct. And, and to not have, once again, that pre that financial pressure. So, um, you know, we don't draw a salary, the two of us mm-hmm. Which changes the entire business model. Totally. Right. And, uh, you know, we're not hand to hand to mouth where, you know, we're trying to put food on the table, which we were definitely during the Rode days. Sure, sure, sure. So we, we lived that. So Melissa's lived that and she, she, you know, she's seen the craziness of, you know, starting, you know, business, you know, from, from the grassroots up. So here we are again and hopefully, you know, some of our knowhow, you know, being in our mid fifties now, uh, we were able to expedite the whole, whole entire process. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we talk about some of your favorite products? Sure. Maybe, can I start with you, Melissa? Is this for Telus? Yeah, for Telus. Yeah. Well, I wear my flannel that, that I love. I mean, I'm a flannel person and you know, I wear these, you know, it's got snaps too. I can dress snaps, I can dress up, I can wear it in the yard. I can, you know, hike. Um, uh, I also love our sun shirts because I, I, uh, I've had too much sun over the years and so my skin, um, likes to hide from the sun. So fair. If you see me out and about, I'm usually, you know. Wrapped up with sunscreen and a hat. And, um, so our, probably the UPF 50 shirts that we just came out with this spring. Okay. Um, which are kind of made for the water. Uh, they're soft. Um, you know, they dry fast. Uh, they have UPF 50. Mm-hmm. Um, we have it in a hoodie and a quarter zip. Um, we have it in a tank for women. So, you know, if you're paddle boarding or you're, you know, you know, hiking in full sun, it's a, it's a great option. I see so many more people wearing water shirts these days. Mm-hmm. That seems smart to me. Even, even socially as a lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And then I tear our vest, you know, you know, being in Colorado, you know, a vest. I mean, it's kind of part of the, is it a puffy vest or it's a down vest. Uhhuh. Yep. Yep. It's just kind. I, I feel like you live in Colorado, you have to have a vest. And of course, I'm gonna say Telus is the best. It says down, doesn't count as a recycled product, but it's very natural. Actually. We use it is recycled sound. Oh, recycled down. Oh. Which actually, um, comes from it from great quality pillow cases and mattresses. Yeah. Asia, they, they, they, uh, they consume a lot of poultry as far as, uh, goose duck. Sure. You know, uh, so, uh, we were able to get to use a hundred percent recycled down. Interesting. So ours is certified RDS, which is like recycled down standard, I think is what it is. Mm-hmm. I think that's it. Down. Yeah. Interesting. How about you, Joe? Do you have a couple of favorites? Yeah. Uh, I have to lead with, especially this time of year old town button down. So, so all of our products have local, is that what that is? No, this, this is the, uh, foothills Flannel. Okay, gotcha. So we, we, uh, so the old town button downs, it made out a really interesting fabric by the name of Sea, sea Wall, which, uh, we use in about a half a dozen of our products. So it's made out of, uh, pulverized oyster shells. Oh. Blended in with a hundred percent, uh, recycled polyester. Oh, interesting. Plastic bottles, actually. Oh, plastic bottles, yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's a really great fabric. Interesting. But that's, that's more of a lime. So oyster shells make it. Durable or durable? Uh, actually it, it, it makes it a really smooth, uh, consistent, uh, um, fabric and it's really soft on the skin. All right. Um, it has anti microbial qualities to it. Okay. And, uh, yeah, it's just a, it's a fantastic product. Uh, we, we make, um, our performance shorts, shorts out of it, so we make some joggers out of it. Mm-hmm. The old town button down. Yep. Oh, turn button down. I like it. And then, uh, you know, our shell is, is a great, um, a great shell, long, long speak shell. Okay. Which is of course another local one landmark that we steer at on a daily basis. Uh, that's an extremely durable, you know, hard shell that I, you can wear, you know, once again as a rain shell. Mm-hmm. As well as a, a ski, just a, which is fantastic. A casual jacket. So that's another one of my favorite, you know, coming off the ski season, I, I constantly will wear that. And, uh, getting back to our duffles, I mean, uh, our duffles are a lot of fun. I mean, we just went a, went a trip to visit, uh, most of his family, Indiana, and it's just a great weekend, uh, duffel. Yeah. That myself and the kids are using. Mm-hmm. Oh, something, uh, that my wife got us that we just used for the first time this weekend is little. Packable things so you can, you know how the expandable suitcases have the thing? Mm-hmm. Well, so you can do the same thing uhoh like your shirts and your pants and stuff like that. And then you can carry it compress. You can take a week's worth of stuff in your duffle bag that way. Mm-hmm. Right, right. So you might consider that as a future product. I like that because it would fit well to expand the capacity of your existing line. I like, we were taking, we're taking a hiking trip in Scotland. Scotland with, there you go. Yeah. Next month. So you might not have time to develop it before then. I have to look into, well, I might have to use it now, right. To see what you think about it's accused. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like the pack. But I heard, and I was kind of, I don't wanna say I'm suspect, I was a scoff. I wasn't a scoffer yet, but I was suspect. Yeah. But then I like packed it and I was like, huh. I actually got twice as many shirts in this space as I would have my si my sister swears by the, it'll make you double big, heavier. Uh,'cause you got so much stuff in there now, but yeah. For a big trip like that, I think it makes a lot of sense. That's great. That's great. So for what it's worth. Yeah. Um, cool. And by the way, we, uh, we, we normally have a giveaway, um, as part of our thing here. Is there, um, would you like to giveaway a tell us hat or something like that? By all means, for one of our folks, by, by all means, we can support you with some hats. Okay. Even like, since we've been talking about the duffle, I can, I can support you with the duffle Okay. Which, which is great. Mm-hmm. Then you don't have to worry about sizes. Um mm-hmm. And, uh, clean Canteen is, you know, it's co-branded. Uh, it's made out of 90% recycled steel. Those are our coffee mugs. Oh, sweet. We'll be more, more than happy to. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, let's do a, let's do a hat and a coffee mug. Okay. Uh, but it's, we have a game. That's associated with it. Oh, okay. You might not like this game unless,'cause there's some awkward questions in here. Oh boy. So I'm gonna have you guys draw two questions each, two ping pong balls each, all Melissa. Oh no. And uh, here, I'll hand it to you and you guys can have, have up there on the couch with you. And then each of these, you can't look, each of these questions is tied to, some of'em are, are like legit business questions and some are, um, not nothing, nothing non-politically correct all the way. Who would like to start? I have number 16. Number 16 Or, yeah, I guess, or 91 depending on how you look at it. Know what? This one's? 16. Who has had the most significant influence one person on your life? Hmm. Gosh, that's an interesting question. Um, and you can't pick Joe and good call. That, you know. Um hmm. I would have to say, um, probably one of my first, out of my first job out of college, I worked, I told you at that public affairs firm. Yeah. Um, by the name of Jessica Urman and Associates in Chicago. And I would have to say, uh, one of the owners, you know, just a very dynamic person, um, hardworking, incredibly smart. Um, you know, I just, I learned so much, um, from him and just the kinds of work that he liked to do and the projects that we had. Yeah. And just he was such a thoughtful leader. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm reading a book right now from a recent guest, uh, it's called Life Entrepreneurs. Mm-hmm. And it's kinda like not just building the business that you're looking to build mm-hmm. But building the life you're looking to build. Mm-hmm. It sounds like he was living a very intentional life. Mm-hmm. And business journey. Yeah, I would say so for sure. Mm-hmm. That's cool. Thank you. Uh, Joe, what number would you like to believe it or not? I got number one. Number one, what's your favorite childhood memory? Favorite childhood memory. Um, I, I, I guess there would be, uh, they, they all kind of intertwined. But, um, my, my father from Brooklyn, New York, a funny story. He, uh, was an avid camper. He, he loved the outdoors. He, he loved the, the, the culture and the history of American Indians. Okay. And, uh, be being, uh, this is when you didn't wanna live in Brooklyn, New York, back in the fifties. Yeah. Um, so he, he, he was a big influence on, uh, but it was, it was basically all of our camping, all of all of our vacations were, were, were camping where we, we, we started with a Volkswagen bus. It was, uh, almost a scene out of a circus where you open up the door and, uh, myself, my brother, my sister, two dogs, uh, and my parents, uh, would camp in this Volkswagen bus. Oh, wow. And, uh, I actually, I like upstate New York, kind of, well, actually, I, I, Adirondack, I don't know the region ly grew up, I partially grew up in Los Angeles. Oh. So in the seventies, I grew up in Los Angeles. Okay. And my dad got relocated to Chicago. And, um, this is, uh, so basically, um, from 1974 to 1982, I was in Los Angeles area. So every vacation we would, we would go and get in this Volkswagen bus and just go explore different national parks. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we, we would go up to Yosemite, um, we would go up to, uh, Sequoia, national, national Park. We would just, uh, we went to, um, you know, the deserts, uh, in the Mojave. It was, uh, it was just fantastic. So I would have to say all those trips. Right. Very, that was foundational too. Giving back to the seed of, you know, my love for the outdoors. Yeah. Hence, you know, Telus. Mm-hmm. Right. I like it. Alright, Melissa, you ready for your second question? Mm. Let's see. Number 29. What's been the most surprising thing about this business for you? About Telus? Gosh, that's a tough one. Um. I think that is a tough question. What has been, can you read that one more time? Yes. What's been the most surprising thing? Like you spent a couple years planning and thinking and Yeah. Um, and now, now two and a half years doing kind of more, right? Yeah. December, 2003. Yeah. 23 or 23. Mm-hmm. I guess, I don't know what the most surprising thing about it is. I, I, I wanna say that, you know, it, it's been harder than I thought it would be. Hmm. Uh, to get to this point. Um, there's so many, you know, coming out of, you know, watching Joe go through, you know, what he did with vanilla and the supply chain and everything. Yeah. I feel like there's so many more layers to this industry. Mm-hmm. Um, that we both learned a lot, um, in this journey, just in how things work. Um, but yeah, I def I thought it would be, I didn't think it would be this challenging, um, but. I feel like, you know, we've risen to all the challenges. Yeah. Um, and so it's just another part of the journey is, you know, everything that we've learned, um, and we've learned a lot. So, um, I feel like af at this point, we're in a really good space. Yeah. So I feel like a lot of the things that we had to learn that were hard, are behind us. We understand how they work now and, and we're stronger for it. Yeah. You know, I think that's a lot of entrepreneurs. Mm-hmm. Uh, if I knew how hard it was gonna be, I wouldn't have told my boss what I told him. You have no idea until you're in it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Fair enough. Uh, Joey, your second number please? I have number 10. Number 10. What, what's a hobby or a skill you've always wanted to pick up but never have? At least not yet. I, I know the answer. You do. I know the answer to this. What's the answer? But I'm gonna see what you say. A hobby or a skill. Um, well there, there's a few of'em. Um, I would say, um. Kite surfing would be okay. One Okay. That I would really like to pick up. Um, actually painting is a, is another one that I would really like to pick up. Um, which I haven't, and those are probably, what was your thought? I. The guitar. The guitar. Well, I picked that up though. I, I've started, well, that's when, when I went I, I, I, I play my, my, I I am up to eight songs. Guitar. Well, let's, like, talk to me what you could actually play via song. That's exactly, he's working on it. I'm still in the basement. I'm working on my repertoire as far as, uh, but I'm probably up to about eight to 10 songs on guitar. Um, but that is something I actually picked up. Mm-hmm. And I'm talking about things I've never done before. Understood. Understood. Mm-hmm. And then travel. I mean, we're avid travelers. Uh, we, we, there's still, you know, many, many places on our bucket list that we would like to go to. Well, for our, uh, listeners out there, I'm gonna be the selector and the. Person that first writes in with the answer of Joe's early camping trips to the National Parks of California. Mm-hmm. Uh, that is the winner of the Telus, uh, gear Coffee mug and hat. That's it. And so, uh, yeah, just write that into us on any of the social medias, Instagram or LinkedIn. And, uh, first person to respond. We'll get that prize. Um, I'm gonna call a break and, uh, we'll get back in just a couple minutes. Awesome. How we do? Great. Okay. You have such a nice voice. I feel like I'm, you does have the radio voice. I sound like, you know, I have the cold and I can hear myself both coming off. Everybody that listens knows that they get colds too. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so yeah. Don't sweat it. Um, I'm gonna take a quick potty break. Okay. Okay, great. When we come back, we'll jump into the time machine a little bit more. Okay. Even into the earlier years of, uh, what, like the family dynamic that you grew up in a little bit. Sure. Um, we'll talk more about your kids. Excellent. And, uh, that journey and what they're off to do, and we'll get a little bit of advice for the next generation as well. Cool. And we're back. And so what I wanna do, uh, once we're back in the second half here is jump in the time machine right away, because we kind of started with the romance years and didn't really find out about, about young Melissa and young Joe. And so if I may, um, where did I, where would I have found you as a, as a 5-year-old young lady, Melissa? Five years old. I was, um, one of three girls in Indianapolis, Indiana. Okay. Um, oldest, youngest, middle, middle child. Okay. Um, you know, I'm an Irish twin, so my older sister is only 14 months older and my younger sister, she's just a couple years behind. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I was just doing what, I guess five years. Five year olds, do you know, playing in the backyard? Um, were your fam, was your family from there, your parents and stuff? Yes. All my family. I come from a very large Irish Catholic family. Okay. So, um, I would say the first time I took Joe to one of our family Christmas parties, I put a name tag on him and I said, if I don't introduce you, introduce yourself, because I'm probably related and I just haven't met them yet. Oh gosh, interesting. So, um, and what was the family dynamic? Was your mom a stay at home mom? Did she work? What was your dad involved in? No, my dad was probably at that point, he may have already been divorced, so Oh wow. Okay. You know, he had us three girls and then remarried. Um, so I would say, you know, growing up probably someone who I spent a lot of time with was my grandmother, um, especially in the summers. Yeah. Uh, you know, when we were out of school, so Interesting. And she was from Indianapolis, um, born and raised, uh, in Indianapolis. Yeah. So it's big. Also a big influence on your life. Mm-hmm. Presumably. Mm-hmm. And was that traumatic? I mean, that divorce wasn't, now everybody gets divorced, but in those days it was pretty unusual. Um, yeah, I guess I, I, um, you know, I don't think about it too much anymore. I guess. I Sure. Um, uh, yeah. But you, you adapted well, I adapted regardless. And, you know, I feel like they were divorced at such a young age. It was, you know, there was a lot of things you don't remember. Sure. Um, but yes. Yeah. I mean, a lot of us don't really start having memories until we're five or mm-hmm. So, right. Were you good student right away? Were you introvert, extrovert, sporty? Um. Sporty. I played all the sports. Um, you know, I, I don't know, maybe back then it was part of just how we went to school. You stayed and did all the afterschool activities. So, you know, I did brownies, I played volleyball, softball, and I ran track. I did, you know, all the things. Mm-hmm. Um, as a good student, I would say that just maybe depended on the time or the teacher. Or the teacher. Right. That's what I spend most on for me, how engaged or not engaged I was. So I would say probably, you know, a decent student and then later in high school, maybe a little distracted. Okay. And then, you know, couple, my first couple years of college really distracted by boys, by, no, just fun. Yeah. Just kind of, you know, I don't know. College is, you know, it was likes Oh, this whole new world out there. Fair enough. Yeah. To the point where my counselor was like. We need to have a talk. You need to suck it up and get a little better grade. You need to slow down and yeah, let's change this dynamic a little bit. I have all those talks as well, so I was like, okay, maybe it's time to pay. And which is how I ended up doing study abroad. Uh, and meeting Joe's friend Craig, who actually ended up introducing us was, yeah, my counselor was like, you know, we, you're gonna need, if you wouldn't have been a crappy student mm-hmm. Never would've had that conversation. Yeah. I changed my major, um, at that point. And then, um, you know, because I did that, I needed some extra coursework, so it was like, okay, I'll do, I'll do a study abroad. Like let's make this fun. Interesting. You know, it doesn't have to be the same old, you know, routine. Yeah. Um, really cool. Yeah. I like it. That's a little bit of me. Yeah, I like it. Joe, uh, tie machine to your, uh, 5-year-old self or so, five year, um, as I mentioned, I, I was in, uh, Los Angeles Thou, thousand Oaks, California. Um, just, just northwest of Los Angeles. Great, great time to grow up there. Um, it was in, in the seventies and. You had all the Hollywood magic going on in there. Yeah. Super vibrant economy. And, uh, believe it or not, in our, in our local neighborhood, they, they filmed, uh, MASH back. Oh, really? Not too far away from our house. Um,$6 million, man was a big one. Uh, which was filmed a locally, uh, little house in her prairie. Wow. Which was another one. So, um, it was just a great time in that area, um, full of ranches and, um, oh, it was, um, vineyards and, um, fruit, fruit gardens. Um, and it was like, kind of like a Tom Sawyer and h Huckberry fin type situation. Have brothers to share this. Uh, yeah. Sisters. I got a, I'm the youngest of three. Okay. I got a, a middle brother and a oldest SI sister. Okay. Okay. And what, what had you in California there? What was your, your family. Up to your dad or dad? Like I mentioned, he was in the insurance industry, uh, starting an office, a local office there for Zurich Insurance. Okay. Which is still around, um, was out in like in New York and they moved him out to LA or whatever. Chicago. Chicago was born in Chicago. Chicago, sorry. Yeah. When I was four, we moved out to Los Angeles. Okay. A big, big change. Big move. Uh, especially coming from the Midwest. Um, my mom was a, uh, actually a grade school teacher. Okay. As well. Um, she, she was an educator. Practically her whole career, uh, which was great. So, um, very, very positive experience. We, we had this large ranch behind us, of which we used to on jump the fence and there was a creek and there was horses, and then there, there was cattle, which I remember getting, getting chased up a couple trees, you know, from, from a couple bulls. But like I said, it, it was really interesting. Uh, just a happy go lucky and really just got drawn to California. Like a whole bunch of other people were being drawn to California in those years. Right. Was, it was kind of the beginning. It wasn't just wanna be Ruby Stars. Yeah. Beginning, yeah. The beginning of, uh, people really getting imported into, into California. So it was just a really good time, really good time to be there. I, for personally, I would've moved back, uh, in this day, day and age. Sure. So timing? Timing was everything for us. Yeah. Yeah. And how about you? Same, uh, kind of. Doing all the sports. I was very big on sports. Uh, very similar to Melissa. I was a big soccer player, um, baseball, um, player, uh, basketball. Played all the sports. Probably more, much more focused on sports than I was as far as school's concerned. Yeah. Uh, definitely distracted at school. I had very, very active mind. Uh, still do, it was hard, hard to really kind of hone in, you know, still, you know, my focus. Uh, but, uh, I obviously got through school. I got, I got through high school, I got through undergrad. Uh, but yeah, sports was a big part. Uh, I was, I was introduced to playing, playing golf. I ended up, uh, playing a little college golf Oh, okay. As well. So, uh, just a lot of fun. Yeah. Do you still play, still play? Uh, it's more social. It's, it's a social outing for me. It's, it's, it's kind of a walk in the park. Don't as much track of your handicap as you once did. No, no. Uh, it funny thing is I, I practiced so much back in the day as I absolutely hate practicing. Like, like I could, could easily use some chipping practice, which, right. That's, that's really kinda the last thing I want to do is so I just go out there and just kind of hit it, you know, these days. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, I feel like we've kind of covered the, the romance days, but maybe set me to the, the circumstance when you guys first started, your family, um, you were in Chicot. No, we were here. You were here, we were, we, we raised our families, our family right here in Fort Collins. So you came here for that job. Had a, had not too many years. And then. Uh, we dated roughly two years mm-hmm. After we got back from the Peace Corps and, uh, we were basically bouncing back and forth from DC and in Fort Collins. Okay. We did that for two years. So every, every two, three weeks we would take turns on who's visiting who. Interesting. And, uh, I'll never forget this, she and Melissa actually had a conference for a National Geographic in Las Vegas, uh, roughly at that two year mark. And we were actually having breakfast underneath the Eiffel Tower at the Paris. At Paris, Paris Resort Hotel. And that's when the conversation came up of, what do you think about me, you know, moving to Fort Collins. She was, she was working very hard. I mean, you've been working many hours. Mm-hmm. Back for National Geographic. And then we both know each other, said, all right, let's give it a shots. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, we got engaged, uh, soon after that and was right. Right after our, we got married in 2002, first child right around the corner in 2003, our first daughter out of three. And, uh, we call it the express package. Right. We, we, once again, we met at a later age, so we, we met at 30, so we, we both kind of knew what we wanted at that point in time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Figured gonna have a family time as now, uh, married at 32, first child at 33, and then we, we, uh, were pretty consistent having two other girls about two and a half years apart from each other. Um, Fort Collins, once again, a great place to, to raise a family. Very, very happy. Um, with, with, uh, um, I used to call it a one horse town, and now we're probably about a six horse town here in Fort Collins. Right, right. We used to live on the south side of Fort Collins, and then, uh, in 2007 we moved to Ris Canyon, uh, in Bellevue. Oh, is that right? Mm-hmm. We're at the base of the Foothills, so really been enjoying our time out there. Mm-hmm. Well, if you see a, uh, I, I love Ris Canyon because it's one of the only places in the. World that I've experienced where most of the automobile traffic will pull over and let you pass if you're on a fast coming motorcycle. Mm-hmm. They're respectful motorcycles. Yeah. Yeah. If they're respectful and, uh, cyclists, we get a ton of cyclists mm-hmm. In that area. Um, and, you know, we kind of prefer cows over people these days. That's fair. That's fair. Um, let's talk about these girls. Mm-hmm. Uh, I'm not very good at math. What's that? Uh, math, but the oldest one, age-wise now. So the oldest, she actually just graduated college. Oh yeah. And she graduated from Butler in Indianapolis. Oh, congrats. And two weeks ago. And she's staying in Indianapolis for the next year and kind of in a gap year space. She studied well'cause she's got 27 cousins and Right. All bunch of family, some different things around there. But, you know, it's funny, she started in California and then after sophomore year decided she wanted to be in Indiana, so she transferred. Um, and what's her name, if you don't mind? Her name is Emma and she just finished, um, her degree in psychology at Butler. She wants to go back, um, for grad school. Okay. But wanted to take a time out. Yeah. Um, for the next year. So she's kind of working on what that looks like. Uh, then we have Mary, our, our middle daughter, um, she just wrapped her first year at. University of Missouri in Columbia. Okay. And, uh, she is studying, she just told us yesterday, it's a new, she kind of pivoted. Um, she was an art. A person, um, going in as an art major, and now she's moved into textile apparel management. Okay. Which is interesting. Interesting, interesting. Mm-hmm. Right. She wants to take over dad's company someday, or mom and dad's. Mm-hmm. Which would be fantastic. Which is, which has been fun. Um, so she's home for the summer. She just got home, uh, a few days ago and is only home for nine weeks. So she has become my assistant Oh. For the summer. I love it. She's loving it. Yeah. It's all, it's everything from, um, you know, like house projects to you get to shadow me as a tam major, um, shadow, you know, us at meetings and things and kind of listen and learn, um, and see if this really is something you wanna pursue. What's the nickname of that college or whatever. Um, the program she's in is Tam. Well, but the University of Miz. Oh, Mizzou. Mizzou, yeah. Mm-hmm. Actually, my, one of my. Best friends from Fort Collins. His daughter just completed her first year there. Oh, they might be friends. Mm-hmm. Uh, Roth is, uh, Jillian, Jillian Roth would be her name. So ask around, we'll ask you and, uh, and your third, and then our youngest is, uh, sophomore or she just finished her sophomore year at Putter High School. Okay. Go putter. Mm-hmm. Go putter. She's an Impala. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, she's just kind of, you know, getting through the high school years and Yeah. Um, you know, she's got a good head on her shoulders. Uh, she just went, um, she made it to the state championship. Ooh. Tournament in tennis. Okay. Uh, impressive playing. Yeah. Double tennis for Pooter. So she had a good season this year. Um, and yeah, she just finished her last day of school yesterday. Oh wow. Yeah. Mm-hmm. A lot of that transition. Um, Joe, one of the games we play in this, in this conversation is one word description of the kids. And since Melissa just did the, the legwork there, maybe you wanna of all three? No. One, one word for each. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's pretty good. Alright. Um, I, I'll start with the youngest. Uh, I, I would say, uh, tenacity is, uh, a big one for, for, for our youngest. She always likes to persevere. Yeah. Uh, middle child, one word. Social. I would say she's extremely social and creative. I would, I would throw that out there. Uh, oldest, I would say pensive. Uh, she, she's, I don't even know what pensive means. Cautious, cautious, prudent out, humble, prudent. Um, everything is well thought out. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. That was a bit of a curve ball. You there? Yeah. Well, yeah. I didn't, if I've warn you about it, then you wouldn't have so much hard time with it. Would you, would, Melissa, would you agree with those? Yeah, pretty much. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, um, if you were like giving advice not just to your daughters, but just the world, uh, a young person in the world, kind of at that same phase in the whatever it is, 18, 20, 22, figuring out. You guys both had the blessing of early life crisis kind of. Right? But there's a lot of people that are pensive about the world and where I should try to get educated so a AI won't take my job, and different things like that. Right. Like what kind of advice would either of you could start really? You want me to go? Sure. I would say, you know, one of the things I think everybody should do is just go have experiences. You know, just try new things. Yep. You know, if it's, you know, you know, if you're in a major and you feel like it's not working, it's okay to change. Mm-hmm. Um, but put yourself out there, you know, at the university level, get involved, get involved in things maybe you haven't tried. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, like for us, for myself, you know, um, when I was in college, you know, I tried the school paper. Um, I, you know, tried selling ads for the school paper. I worked on the editorial side, and then I did study abroad and that opened so many doors for me. Mm-hmm. And. Um, you know, it just, it, it introduces you to new experiences. It teaches you life lessons, whether they're positive or negative. Yeah. You're all, you're constantly learning from them and I think it's so valuable. A lot of saying yes. Mm-hmm. At least once. Yeah. So I think it was the quote from the high school or the college graduation that I thought was really impactful. Um, you're born with a brain, but life gives you a mind. And that was at Butler's graduation. That was by one of the keynote speakers. And I was like, that's really powerful. You know, when you think about it. So it's filling your mind with all these experiences and it kind of Totally, you become who you are because of it. Well, it's something that AI can never do. Mm-hmm. You know, it can't go have experiences. It just. Like is a mirror of sorts. Mm-hmm. On, on language. Mm-hmm. Which means nothing kind of. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I love that Joe. Uh, sure. Any reflections there? Um, along the same lines as Melissa just mentioned, I, I believe the, the youth, you know, just looking at my own children and nephews and, and some nieces and, you know, friends around us. I, I think there's a lot of pressure on, on, on the youth today, on really figuring out at, at an early age who you want to be when you grow up. Yeah. And, uh, un unless you're specialized, which a lot, a lot of kids are, you know, very specialized Sure. As far as where they want to go. But I think there's this really too much pressure at, you know, within your, your teen years of, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you want to do? Choose something, you know, what do you want to do for the rest of your life? And they feel like they're, they're a bit stuck at times. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I, I just would just, you know, for those, for those kids, I would say change is okay. Yeah. You know, if something's not working, try things. Try, try. Don't get into a bunch of debt. Try something new. Get a job, right? Say, right. Uh, you know, either that or tent. I'm a big proponent on, uh, getting a job at an early age. I, I started personally working when I was 12 as a, as a caddy at, at a, yeah. As a scene, right. Outta Caddy Shack outside of Chicago. It was kind of funny. Mm-hmm. Um, but, uh, I would say, yeah, um, once again, don't be afraid of change. Um, I would throw out their travel too. Don't be afraid. Um, we've, especially being Peace Corps volunteers, we really emphasize to our kids to have a chance to study abroad. If you ever get a chance, see what the other side of that fence looks like. And I'm not, I'm not just talking about, you know, going to Cabo on a family. Right. That's not traveling. You know, I'm, I'm talking about if you do get any, any type of opportunity to travel, especially to a developing country, you, you really, really understand. You know, what, what makes the world go around and Yeah. And what it looks like on the other side of the fence. So you mentioned earlier, Joe, that you did Outward Bound when you were like. 16, 16 or something and mm-hmm. Um, also that a lot of times it was troubled youth kind of situation or whatever. Did you get into some trouble that got you there? Or, or No. So, so I would say, uh, I would say the vast majority are bound. Uh, there's a very similar program up in Wyoming by the name of Noles. So this is, uh, really based on that outdoor education, OO opening, uh, opening yourself up to. The outside world. Um, so I would say the vast majority of students, both for Knowles and Outward Bound are, are kids, you know, in their teens, um, that, that are just interested in, in the outdoors. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. In general. Um, and then they do put you in different leadership, you know, roles within the programs. So each, each, each student within the program gets a chance to be a leader. Yeah. Okay. One thing I loved about Outward Bound, and this actually came from the Native Americans, is you did a three day solo. So you, you would actually have to stay by yourself for three days in a given area. Uh, limited on very, I mean, literally, I think without your phone. Oh, no, there wasn't a phone. Well, in 1986 there was no phone. I, I'm proud to say I didn't get my first cell phone until I was 32 years old. Um, but uh, you would have like 12 Ritz crackers, a little bag of raisins and peanuts and, uh, you basically would fast and, uh Oh dang. For, for the American Indians, it was a bit of a vision quest. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a time to reflect. Mm-hmm. And, uh, for the disadvantage use, it was, it was a big deal for I'm sure, especially inner city kids, really reflecting on who am I? What am I doing? Who do I want to be? Mm. How do I treat others? Fascinating, you know, who's important to me in, in my life. Um, and that's just, that's outside of, you know, obviously hiking and doing peaks and just being in outdoors. So, um, yeah, it just really did a lot for me. It, it changed my world. Sure. Sounds like it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, let's talk about the store. How did you choose a location? We spent about six months looking for a location, uh, old town's a tough place to, to, to find, yeah, yeah. To find retail space. Um, and so when we were looking, we were looking at roughly. 1500 square feet to 2000 square feet. Um, we were looking for something new that we could put our own signature on. So, um, our location, which is right across from El Burrito, right in, right in between Ginger and Baker and New Belgium. Uh, really very close to to the river. The, the Pooter over there, uh, was a brand new location, so we were able to get pretty creative with the space. Gotcha. As we were going after kind of a rustic contemporary feel and like Yeah. Yeah. Um, it was, which, you know, very natural look. Um, you know, our veneer on the walls is, um, a beetle kill from Wyoming that we, we use for, for the wood siding. Um, but we looked, of course, everybody wants to be off of mountain and college, uh, which is very limited, very limited space. The restaurant space there was available briefly. Mm-hmm. It might make, might not make sense to make a retail, to, to rehab that space would've been difficult. So, so our location ended up being, in my opinion perfect. Mm-hmm. Uh, 1600 square feet, perfect size for what we wanna show as far as our goods are concerned. And I do feel that the, the quote unquote river district, the up and coming area Yeah. Uh, is really in the next five years, uh, it's, it's really going to be a true part of Old Town, I believe That's correct. Yeah. And that, that's right around the corner for us. Mm-hmm. They gotta kind of figure out what the story is with the parking situation. Is the city actually gonna support. Parking over there is limited. It's very challenging. I hope this, uh, city is, I hope the city is listening. Listening and being very proactive. Yeah.'cause that's, that's where the development gonna going to be happening, you know, for, for Old Town. So, um, yeah. Parking is limited. You have that space right across the street from Ginger and Baker that has become public parking, but that's gonna change, change soon. Yeah. Yeah. There's gonna be an apartment complex there soon. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Oh, dang. So, yeah, it's even gonna be more limited. So, and it's even changed since in the last two years, that whole area. Mm-hmm. It's just, it's constantly developing. Yeah. So we're, we're very happy to be part of that community. Talk to me about, uh, Fort Collins. Like, you know, the internet was here, but barely doing much. When, when you guys moved to town respectively? About the same time I did. Really? Okay. Uh, and, uh, you know, it's grown and developed. Would you, is this home for a long time or if you were gonna move, where would you move? After the kids are out the nest and Teis is working on its own or whatever. I, I think I can speak for both of us. We're, we're, we're not moving. We're, this is, this is home to us. Mm-hmm. We raising, raising our three girls here in Fort Collins, it, it's, it's been a pleasure. And just getting back to, we as a family, we do all, all things Colorado as far as far as outdoor recreation. Yeah. I have two, two daughters that I'm very proud of. I'm proud of all my daughters, but they out scheme me now as far Oh, okay. So they're, they're beyond me on all mountain terrain. I'm like, okay, you guys go, I'll, I'll meet you up. Yeah. Catch up to you. I'll meet, meet you at the bottom of the chairlift. Uh, so it just, just all things Colorado, getting back to the hiking, getting back to the, to the camping, uh, you know, the backpacking, um, the skiing, you know, the, the fishing, um, which I've never, I'm a terrible fisherman by the way, but especially with my dad growing up in, you know, Brooklyn, New York. Yeah. Yeah. He was a terrible fisherman. So, uh, no, we're not going anywhere. Um, we, we do have a, a, a place up in Winter Park that is kind of our getaway. Sure. And we absolutely love it up in Tabernash. Um, been going up there for 20 years. Uh, the city has changed. Um, we, we moved here, I believe the population was 60,000, and now we're up to, you know, hovering, getting close to 190,000. Right. So, you know, three times. Three times the size. Yeah. Yeah. When, when we moved here with that, uh, obviously getting back to city planning, uh, there's a lot, a lot that goes, goes into that. Yeah. So, you know, we used to rotate. You know, three, three restaurants and now we're up to, you know, maybe eight. You're, you're a, you're a pretty, uh, good looking guy with a good business history and stuff. Maybe some, some local politics for you, Joe. Is that a temptation? Uh, no. No. Uh, to see Telus grow, um, is going to be very gratifying for both of us. And to getting, getting back to that, give back a hundreds, the more we grow, the more we can give away. Yeah. Uh, you know, being in, in, in my mid fifties, you know, getting back to travel and bucket list and we will be empty nesters in a couple years. Uh, definitely, definitely wanna focus on some, getting back to the personal hobbies. Yeah. Yeah. We definitely wanna focus on that. Um, politics, to me, that's, that's a, that's a, that's a tough place, dangerous brand, especially if you've got a brand, especially this day and age. Yeah, yeah. These parties are so divided. I mean, I'm, I'm the independent, you know, out there that I argue, argue both sides. You, and so I've been registered in independent for over 20 years now. Um. But it's, it's, it's a bit of an ugly, you know, business as far as politics are concerned this day and age. It's, uh, I, uh, my blog last, this actually that went out today, probably earlier today, kind of was bemoaning the fact that both parties seem to be leading our nation into bankruptcy, uh, you know, from a federal level, uh, just to, with different spending priorities. Exactly. But neither one of'em seems to care that we're, you know, borrowing a third of what we're spending as a, as a federal government that just don't work well, just crossing the aisle this day, day and age is, is just, it's not there as it used to be. Um, we, we grew up with Democrats working together with Republicans and vice versa. Yeah. Um, and we haven't seen that in quite some time, which is very unfortunate as far as far as I'm concerned. Right. Which is being productive for the, you know, em, betterment of, of the country. And, uh, I, I just hope that they can start, you know, these two parties can start working together and not, not be so divided. We'll be in a tough place if they can't start figuring it out a little bit because mm-hmm. If everything that Trump does is terribly evil to everybody on the other side and vice versa mm-hmm. It's hard to ever find that compromise. Mm-hmm. So, um, any, uh, questions for me? You have a wonderful radio voice by, by the way, and, uh, I'm sure you can make a career out of it. Uh, well, can anybody make a career? Where is your future? Where is my future? Mm-hmm. Hmm. That's an interesting question. I think it's here as well, you know, as a headquarters, Fort Collins, um, I would love to, you know, see Loco think tank continue to grow, uh, as a concept outside of Northern Colorado. You know, and I. In my ideal world, it would grow in such a way that would allow me more flexibility to travel and do podcasts with interesting people around the, around the country. I think I, I love the, the, the notion of doing podcasts for a living someday, but we're a long ways away from that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, you know, as you probably know, in navigating those, those business decisions along the way, it's such a lonely place. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, you know, there aren't that many organizations doing what local think Tank does and supporting, especially the little guys in that seven employee Sure. Realm where you started and, you know, vetting out that decision to go from, you know, a, a more of a wholesale to a retail brand. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I thinking about, and then actually building an integrated business. Mm-hmm. You know, those are, that vertical integration was really the secret to your. Long term success it seems. Sure. You know, so, so how do I build an integrated brand? Mm-hmm. Can I do something with the podcast and the, and the think tank chapters and things like that? I think you can. Mm-hmm. Probably. I hope so. Mm-hmm. That's the goal. Yeah, that's great. I think you can. Mm-hmm. Well, I sure appreciate you guys taking time to be in here. I really appreciate what you're doing. Honestly, I think the notion of having a sustainable enterprise in that space, um, is just grand in it, on its face and like your products are bomb. Thank you. Like, I can't wait until I have like five of your, uh, gear items in my itinerary instead of just, we, we co-brand a lot. That's a big portion of our business. Yeah. That's gonna be my facilitator gift this year. It is gonna be that. And, uh, I'm looking forward to making those deliveries. Thank you, Kurt. Thank you. So thanks for being here. Thank you. Appreciate it.