We Are Power Podcast
The We Are Power podcast is the podcast for your career and your life. A weekly podcast with listeners in over 60 countries worldwide where you'll hear personal life stories, top-notch industry advice, and key leadership insight from amazing role models. The podcast not only aids your personal and professional development but also delves deep into conversations around Gender Equality and Social Mobility. Each week the We Are Power Podcast will bring you a new interview from a leader within the 100,000-strong We Are Power community, hosted by Simone Roche MBE.
We Are Power Podcast
The Light at the End of the Tunnel with Paul Sesay
Paul Sesay, the driving force behind Inclusive Companies Limited, joins us to share his awe-inspiring story of resilience.
Paul shares how his early years forged a path of activism which led to his recognition as a 2024 Northern Power Women Advocate.
He candidly discusses his own struggles with mental health and the importance of seeking help.
And find out which Liverpool legend inspired him...
Listen to Learn:
- how we can better promote diversity and inclusion
- the value in viewing setbacks as lessons
- how to take risks and follow your dreams
- how to find light at the end of the tunnel
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Hello and welcome to the we Are Power podcast Northern Power Women podcast for your career and your life, no matter what business you're in. Hello and welcome to the we Are Power podcast. And this podcast is all about highlighting role models and sharing their inspirational personal and professional stories with you, and we always want to bring you some strategies, advice, guidance, top tips, whatever it may be, that will help take you or to navigate you on your path, whether it's your career, your life. We want to be able to pass on some of those top tips and this week I'm really excited to introduce you to one of our 2024 Northern Power Women Advocates. We created this year our advocacy list those amazing humans that are out there not just being a visible ally and advocate for gender equality, but absolutely going out on there and doing it.
Speaker 1:Um, so he's founder and ceo of inclusive companies limited, the national diversity awards and the inclusive top 50 uk employers list, inclusive awards and dna recruitment company president group. Lots and lots and lots of stuff. I don't know you're not time to be on our abacus list, but paul c say welcome. Welcome to the podcast thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you a great place to be here and fantastic work that you've done for many, many years. It's been a pleasure to be on this list and thank you for recognizing me hey, it's not me.
Speaker 1:As you know, you are somebody who kind of shines a light on a spotlight on so many um. You continue to do it, and you've been doing it for over a decade now through the various sort of celebratory recognition events that you learn out there, which are always inspiring. I think inspiring is an overused word, but I think they absolutely come into play when you're at one of your events and you know sort of the wide amount of work that goes into sort of at one of your events, um, and you know um sort of the the wide amount of work that goes into sort of bringing one of these awards on. It's not just putting a fancy dress or a frock on, is it paul? It's there's a lot of hard work that goes in into kind of finding and unearthing these role models yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, and a tremendous team at the back of me and that are at the front of me, at the side of me. Should I say, um, that I just do a fantastic job and put passion into bringing these awards together. But it is hard work. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it, but we, like you and me, we do it to such a high level, uh, and it's a genuine awards, like yourselves that you know, reward absolutely amazing role models in society and and we go back way, way back.
Speaker 1:We've known each other for a number number of years and yet haven't seen each other for ages. Yet we live in in the same time at the same town and our, our business addresses are not too far apart from each other, but, interestingly enough, in the last three weeks I've seen you three times um, an event that I was speaking at, um, and then on the train. So there's always a good time for a train journey, and last week we had a really, really great conversation on the train back from that there, london town, where we were both down there doing what we do. And you know it's interesting.
Speaker 1:I've known you for all this time but I didn't know where it all started and we were talking about lots of different things. I think I asked you what your TED talk would be and you were like it would be around resilience, and I'm like, okay, resilience, that's. That's interesting. Why? Where does this come from? Where does your, where does your sort of? Where would that start? Because it's not just from right now, isn't it? It goes way back when into you in over in Yorkshire, doesn't it? And and the start of your life in Leeds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I was born in Leeds. Um, I was a couple night stands with my mother and my father and, um, I was put for adoption and fostering quite early, uh, when I was a baby, when I was first born, basically and my mother kept her white siblings uh, her white children, should I say and I was put up for adoption, which automatically then you're left as like a part of a a different kind of agenda that most people would go through. So, um, I don't want to go too much into my, into my childhood, but I think throughout my childhood, I was always kind of the only person that would look after me. Um, I was from foster care to children's home, and some good, some very, very bad, some very abusive as well and I think resilience is a word that I have used throughout my childhood and throughout my adult life, simply because you know, when you put into situations like foster care and you don't have a sense of belonging with anybody no, no, foster family, because they have their own family you don't have any kind of, uh, mom and dad to sit there and look back on, so you literally are by yourselves.
Speaker 2:But I think one thing that really got me through my childhood was knowing that there was people that was worse off than me, even though I was going through bad times in some foster care homes which, uh, we may go into a little bit later. But, um, I always thought, you know people in africa, you know the famine that was happening in ethiopia, various other things, and feed the world, and I was thinking, well, I'm not in that situation. So, uh, you know, and that's how I look, kind of, look at life, you know, no matter what life throws at you, sometimes there's always someone worse off than you, so you've got to just get on with it.
Speaker 1:And that's where my resilience comes from and did you have sort of coping strategies that you had then that I suppose still are in play now?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think with anybody. You know, coping strategies are something that is learned as a child, isn't it? You know, depending on the experiences that you go through, it's you know and that can define you as a person and what you do later on in life. And and these kind of challenges as a child, it can be inspirational, it can have inspirational parents where they will then push you to do really well, or it can be the opposite end of the scale, where you've been through so much. You might have an abusive kind of parents. You might have, you know, a really harrowing childhood which then might stay you to do better as well. And I think that's what I've been through myself and um and it and that has affected me later on in life. So I don't't.
Speaker 2:My motto in life is you know you can't do nothing about the past. It's already gone. You know there's no point in me worrying about what's happened and being sitting there going, oh, you had a bad childhood, this, and that I don't want sympathy from what I do because you can't do nothing about it. All you can do is something about now, this very moment, this present moment. You can't even do nothing about the future. You can plan this very moment for the future, but you know, this is the present moment where you can make a difference. So if anything that goes wrong in the awards or of the events, or the consultancy or the business, I say to the team there's nothing we can do about it. What are we going to do? What we're going to do about it right now, this moment, to remedy what's going on. So it might be a host that's dropping out or celebrity or someone that can't attend.
Speaker 1:You know what can we do about it, instead of sitting there moaning about what we can't do, which I don't like in life and how we talk about you know how do you take that early year into not just moving sort of family to family to then all of a sudden finding yourself in a whole other county, a whole other city. You, you were in Liverpool. What was, how did that happen, and what happened next?
Speaker 2:yeah. So, as I said, I went through the foster care system and I was 15. I was homeless as well. I had no parents and I was just. I was going off the rails a little bit. If I'm honest, simone, I was in an area where it was a very deprived area where drug dealing was the norm for many people. You know, you had to survive, but actually the people in that area showed me more love than people I'd had throughout my childhood, if you will. So you know, and they were victims of circumstance area showed me more love than than than people I'd had throughout my childhood, if it were. So you know, and they're a victim of circumstance because there was no opportunities for people in that area.
Speaker 2:In leeds, in chapel town, leeds, um, and you know, you go to this city and you and you don't see anybody that looks like me in the organizations and, uh, you know, and you try and you apply for jobs, you go to university lots of people in that area did but still getting knocked back, and so I think for me, when I was going through that, I quickly knew that I wanted to get out of Leeds because it had nothing but bad memories and I didn't want to go off the rails. I knew right from wrong. Even though I'd been through all these times, I knew that this road I was sticking down wasn't right. So I love Brookside, I love Liverpool, I love the accent, and I went to the nightclub called Cream it's still going, obviously Creamfields, and so on and so forth when I was 19. And I went there for a night out.
Speaker 2:Basically the next day I came back with £25 in my pocket and my clothes. That was it. I didn't know anybody and I just thought you know what I'm going to make the plunge. And I used to watch lots of these Brookside stars. And now, you know, throughout my business, I'm actually working with them, which is fantastic too. So it's a dream come true. And how did you then suddenly create? Well, not suddenly, because there's a dream come true.
Speaker 1:And how did you then suddenly create? Well, not suddenly, because there's a lot you've learned along the way. What led you to want to pursue diversity and inclusion as a career, and actually not a career? You, actually you have created a movement, you have created change and still continue to create change. But what was that pivotal moment?
Speaker 2:um, I think again, throughout my childhood again I'll do to start with if I'd probably been lived, lived in a really nice house and lived a really nice you know kind of existence in a really loving family. I've probably been all the mechanical, something like that, you know, where, you know, just fixing cars or doing what I was doing, I would be happy in life. And I do think my childhood, you know, has, you know, basically shaped me to make a difference. So a couple of things that make me want to make a difference in society. I live with many different people, uh, many different families, and so you have to adapt and uh and and you learn how you know, different communities treat you differently.
Speaker 2:So I lived in the white community where you know I was, especially in the early days in the 70s and 80s. You know the national film was there that even the foster family was quite racist. I remember watching the film zulu uh with the foster family, that quite racist. I remember watching the film zulu uh with the foster family that I just moved into and they was going yeah, it's your mother there, there's your father, and I was like a lonely seven-year-old. Do you know what I mean? You know I was hearing experience racism at that point. But I also went to the black community and I knew kind of the nuances and the and the difficulties people were having just to get jobs and careers and the frustration and then their lifestyle was really harrowing for lots of people. And then I also lived in a bedsit in Leeds with four or five gay guys. I'm not gay myself, but they lived in the same bedsits as we did and learned a lot from them as guys to you know their fights and so on, so forth. So it kind of shaped me into like oh, I love d and I, you know, everybody's human at the end of the day. Um, and then, uh, when I moved to liverpool there was a guy called james crass that took me under his wing if the people that don't know, you probably know him in liverpool, but he's an absolute legend and he's something under under his wing and he showed me how I could be someone. So I used to be on the radio, I used to emcee in nightclubs and that was the catalyst for me to start believing in myself. But the catalyst for me getting into D&I was a culmination of the upbringing.
Speaker 2:But also when James died, especially for the national diversity awards. He, uh, he filled out the anglican cathedral with well wishes and people are standing at the back of you know, like europe, it's one of europe's largest cathedrals. You know I'd be lucky enough to sit there and get 10 people in my funeral. Maybe do you know what I mean. But he filled out a whole cathedral of well wishes and people from all backgrounds as well. It wasn't just from the black community, it was people from every background that was wishing well and you know that epitomizes him and how we should have more cohesion in society and let role models know that they are role models before it's too late. And that's really important because we're too busy these days. You know harping on about the negative news, but I actually tell someone thank you, you helped me, you've been a tremendous help in my life and thank you for doing what you do. You know what I mean. So, yeah, that's kind of my journey into dna and and it's not.
Speaker 1:But you've not just stayed in one place, have you? You were not. You're not a guy who stays. Still, paul cc, yeah no, I like yourself.
Speaker 2:You know we're always. I think I don't know about you, but sometimes I find myself in places where I just can't believe I'm there. You know, I'm in rooms with CEOs and Kensington Palace and the Beta, 10 Downing Street, and advising the government on community club music. How did I end up here, this kid, with literally no one to love me? This Mr Dem birthday is spent by myself to sit there and get to where I'm going to, being respected for what I do, and people message me all the time thanking me for being a trailblazer, and I find that bizarre because I'm just Paul. At the end of the day, I'm no one special, and so it's tremendous the journey that people can go on, so I'm extremely proud. I forgot this question you asked me, but I hope that answered it.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to tell you off, first, because just we need to remove the word just from language and society, because we do all that. I just did that, I only did that. I just went to number 10 or I just went to here or I just, oh, it's more than that. I think we have to replace, find and replace the word just and replace it with especially what would you tell young Paul now, whether it's young Paul the mechanic, whether it's young Paul who's just sort of potentially going to go down that wrong path, what advice would you give him?
Speaker 2:I think, no matter what you're going through in life, there's always light at the end of the tunnel. I put on a LinkedIn post, actually about mental health as well, the other day and it was really poignant with me because it can happen to anybody at any point and you know life can throw some curveballs at you sometimes and you can't see the light. You really can't. But I'm a testament to you. Have resilience is what we're talking about today, that there is always light at the end of the tunnel. There really is um and so confiding someone, no matter what that is, if that's just a program that's out there, just speak to someone about your problems. I listen in the air. Talk to the doctor, talk to a friend, reach out to someone. If you know someone's reaching out I've got mental health issues or just really struggling as you as a person just help them. Just go out there and say, listen, how can I help, because you're down on your luck right now. Do you know what I mean? And so I'd say to anybody in my yoga self, anybody that's that's uh, going through stuff or being through hard times, or anybody that's just looking, has a dream that go for that dream. You never know where it may take you. You've got to take each step at a time. Sometimes you've got to take a little bit of a risk in life. So take one step, two steps, three steps. Before you know it you'll be 50 steps, uh uh, along your dream. And you look back and go look, wow, look, how far I've gone.
Speaker 2:And I'd also say simplify things in business as well. Don't overthink things. So many people overthink businesses and then they talk themselves out of it. Look at the end cause and then just work towards that. If I thought about the cost of these awards, I wouldn't do it. If I thought about lots of different nuances about what I do, I just simply wouldn't do it. But if you just work towards and have a plan and say, well, I'm just going to work and see where it takes me, then you know it might take off, it might not. But you know what. It's either a lesson or a blessing.
Speaker 1:So many top tips in there. You've literally come to this part passing that on. We always talk about things being on the side of a tote bag. I think we need a whole series of them there. But I think one of the things you've just talked about is that you know that whole ethos isn't it is.
Speaker 1:It's good to talk um, and you know, as part of this, the wider advocacy you know we talk about encouraging men to open up to those around them and and and having that support network. You were, you've got, we're in lots of the same networks and we've built our own kind of like massive networks around us. But how important are those support networks? Um, to help you along the way? And I know, just putting it in there, I think that that couple of hours we had on the train last week was a, was an immense kind of kind of um support I think for me last week, just us two having that conversation after not seeing each other for for such a long while, and like finding out more about someone you think you know well, you know just talking, talking out loud around your own sort of challenges, especially as a business owner. Sometimes it's difficult, but how important are those support networks?
Speaker 2:Listen, I wouldn't be where I am today. Well, one with James and people that had inspired me when I'm at work in life. And then, you know, growing the business. You know you need that support network. You need to reach out to people. You know, to grow the business, you know you need that support network. You need to reach out to people. You know we met when you was People's First, before you started Northern Power Women, and then you introduced me to some amazing people there as well.
Speaker 2:Simone, you know you're always an advocate to sit there and connecting people and so on and so forth, and I've still got a lot of them connections now throughout the years and they've helped me tremendously. Um, but also, you know, I I think for me, I see people as people. You know, I don't see like a hierarchy as such and if I've got a good idea and I want to sit there and get something done and I want to work towards that vision, then I absolutely do need a support network for that, and so I'll reach out to people and go. You know what I've got this idea. Can we come on this journey with me and we can come in together. We can make a difference in society, and that's as simple as that. Do you know what I mean? And that's you know.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I wonder how people haven't thought these ideas. I think I've got an innate gift from God to think of great ideas and then see them through, but at the same time I've had many failures in my time as well. Do you know what I mean? So you know business isn't always about the ups and people see the success, but there is definitely downsides to that and failures. But then you rely on your network to build you back up as well. So that's when you reach out to your network and say listen, you know I need a little bit of help here. Can you help me? This, that and the other? And genuinely, people will help you and help you on your journey. I definitely would not be here without the likes of you and very similar people in my network that have championed me throughout my time on my career.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting you talk about the failures as well career, and it's interesting you talk about the the failures as well. Everyone thinks, when you're at a certain level or you've achieved so, so much that it's all been that one straight line, and we know definitely from our train journey last week that there's no such thing, is there, and so I think we've talked about that. The advice you give your paul, the advice you give paul the young, paul, paul the mechanic what would you give your advice to yourself right now, or to to other business owners or other people in business who have kind of just gone through something that was, um, a bit of a dip or a bit of a veil. What's that one?
Speaker 2:one bit of advice gosh, um, I I again resilience. You know it, things happen for a reason and you know, um, it's like I say it's either a lesson or a blessing. I think that's what you've got. To look at things and no matter, things can really pile up. It's one thing after another, after another, after another, and then you're like, oh my gosh, I can't, I can't even have any space to actually even think about anything else. And that's I did six months ago went through a lot of mental health kind of not mental health regards to you know, I was doing what I was doing.
Speaker 2:Nobody knew I was going through things, but I came home and cried to my wife and said, you know, I don't know how much longer I can do this, and so on and so forth. And it was, you know, again, it's that support network reaching out to people and, you know, just asking advice and can give you really solid advice, not someone that will tell you what you want to hear, but someone will tell you the reality of things. I think it's really important as well.
Speaker 1:Paul, loved our sort of regrouping over the last few weeks on the train at the event the other week. I've loved our conversation today and I know so many people are going to take so much away from what you've talked about Lesson it's not a lesson, it's a blessing. From what you've talked about Lesson, it's not a lesson, it's a blessing. You know sort of you've got to live in that very moment, take one step at a time. The past is already gone. Don't dwell on it and let's simplify things. Let's not make things too over complicated so much. Thank you so much, paul, for joining us today and thank you for being amazing. Looking forward to working with you across our wider advocacy list as well this year.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me and keep up the great work, simone, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you today.
Speaker 1:And we'll have all the details about how you can get involved with all of the things that Paul is doing and his team across his various communities. We're all powerful about making that difference, making that change. Thank all of you for listening today. Please do join in the conversation on all of our socials. We are Power on Facebook and LinkedIn, and we are Power underscore net on TikTok. Instagram on Twitter. Thank you so much for joining us. My name is Simone. This is the we Are Power podcast and what goes on media production.
