We Are PoWEr Podcast

Turning Pain Into Purpose: Figen Murray OBE on Creating Martyn’s Law

• powered by Simone Roche MBE and Northern PoWEr Women

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In this episode, we speak with Figen Murray OBE, psychotherapist, campaigner, and the driving force behind Martyn’s Law — about transforming unimaginable tragedy into national change. Figen shares how her son Martyn’s death in the Manchester Arena attack reshaped her life’s purpose and how determination, kindness, and what she calls her “mosquito mindset” helped move entirely new security legislation through Parliament.

Figen’s story, from studying counter-terrorism to spending weeks in the House of Commons and Lords as her work was scrutinised, reveals the reality of building a law from the ground up, the emotional toll of campaigning, and the power of human connection in driving forward change. 

We explore how she works with politicians, venue operators, security specialists, and schools to help make public spaces safer, and why she believes terrorism awareness is everyone’s responsibility.

You’ll hear:
 ➡️ How Figen initiated and led the campaign that created Martyn’s Law
 ➡️ Why venue security was previously optional — and how that is changing
 ➡️ How forgiveness, resilience, and kindness helped her continue the work
 ➡️ What she’s learned from speaking thousands of times across the UK and internationally
 ➡️ The tactics online radicalisers use to target young people
 ➡️ Why simple, everyday awareness and acts of kindness can strengthen communities

Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫

Speaker 1:

Hello, hello, and welcome to the We Are Power Podcast. If this is your first time here, the We Are Power Podcast is the podcast for you, your career, and your life. We release an episode every single Monday with listeners in over 60 countries worldwide where you'll hear personal life stories, top-notch industry advice, and key leadership insight from amazing role models. As We Are Power is the umbrella brand to Northern Power Women Awards, which celebrates hundreds of female role models and advocates every year. This is where you can hear stories from all of our awards alumni and stay up to date with everything MPW Awards and We Are Power.

Speaker 2:

Never imitated, never implicated to the wonderful. Everybody's wonderful.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome, Fegan. Thank you so much for joining me on the beautiful teal couches today. Many of you uh will know Fegan uh from Martin's Law, but you are also a psychotherapist, mum of five, advocate, an OBE, and someone who has turned unimaginable tragedy um into purpose and changing the law. We're not gonna visit revisit the details of that awful day where but we want to honour Martin and Martin's law. Um, Martin, your son, you sadly lost in the the Manchester bombing, and you've now dedicated your life to making that change using this awful time, um, but to change the law because of your relentless work. But how would you describe yourself in three words? In three words, uh, probably quite um determined. Um actually it would be more bloody-minded, to be honest. That's hyphenated rights, you're allowed the one. Yeah, that is um uh a bit mad, um but also quite kind. And how would you describe Martin? Martin was one of a kind, he was larger than life, um, absolutely grabbed life uh with both hands and lived as if he lives two lifetimes. You certainly knew when he was around. He brought joy. Oh, totally, yeah. The room would just light up. And I think we felt that through the media, um, where you saw pictures of him, always an ear-to-ear smile, a cheeky drape dungare the dungarees. I remember those dungarees. But always seemed to bring light into the wolf. Yes, uh it's it's funny that with the dungarees because he had a yellow t-shirt and uh he's and and the dungarees were obviously blue, and he one day came in that outfit and had a cap on as well, and he said, Mum, I've just realized walking past the shop window, seeing my reflection that I actually look like a minion.

Speaker:

And he hasn't realized.

Speaker 1:

So tell us about Martin's law in in your own words. Yeah, so when you say um I um uh um changed the law, i it's actually more than that. The law didn't exist and it is now in existence. So Martin's law is basically legislation that makes it mandatory for venues to keep their customers and staff safe from harm, and that could be terrorism or anything else. Wow. So you're saving lives of we don't even know. Yeah, I mean uh i it's interesting because there was no law, you know, there's venues in in uh all over the the world, really, but there are laws for fire exits, health and safety, of course. There are laws about how many toilets a venue has to have per capacity of people, but there's nothing about security at all. It was literally just optional. The government had it in their counter-terrorism strategy documents uh officially that um venue security is optional, it's a recommendation only. And when I saw that, I thought there is absolutely no way I can deal with that. That needs to change. And what does it feel like to have that? Because there's that national commitment that is behind the law and and totally got behind you to make this history, not change the law, but like you said, make new legislation. Yeah, I think uh obviously the general public don't know that uh they are not safe when they're out and about. And I include myself in that before Martin died. Obviously, I was at the Manchester Arena many times myself watching shows. But you see people in high-vist jackets and you assume that they know what they're doing, and and obviously I realize that's not the case. And when I realized there is no legislation and how unsafe it all is, I felt that that needs to just change. So obviously, the general public don't know about the legislation yet. Um there are very few people, if you asked 100 people on the high street, I think probably 95 would say, I've never heard of Martin's Law. Three might say I've heard of it, but I don't exactly know what it is. I heard it mentioned. Um and two might say I know what it is. And those two might be people who work in security or in the police. Uh um, and and that's why they know about it. So um it's not known yet. The the public uh awareness campaign will start nearer the time when it becomes an active law, although it's uh it's an act of parliament. With with laws in England, you have to have an implementation period, and that's two years from the king signing it uh six months ago. So we have a way to go yet. So once the public is aware, hopefully it they'll feel a lot safer. But the people who know about it are obviously the security industry, and I, as I go to venues now, see more and more really good changes, more security and more awareness. Staff are trained better. I mean, I walked past Madame Tussault's yesterday in London, and actually there was a long queue of visitors, and the staff were just setting up mass screening so that the queue can go very swiftly through it. And and that would have not been possible without the legislation coming in. They wouldn't have thought about doing that. So you want that this is in in essence going to be it's it's everyday. It's you know, it shouldn't feel new, it should feel like this is what everyday safety security is. But it it just seemed incredulous that that was never there. Well, nobody ever thought about it because there is this notion of it's not gonna happen here, we're not gonna be a target. And and with the Manchester Arena, that particular concert, the Ariana Grande concert, um they didn't put sufficient security in because it was deemed a children's concert, therefore low risk, you know. So you can't ever say we are not at risk, and that's the message I'm trying to get across to people. Terrorists strike anywhere, anytime, any place. They don't discriminate, they don't care. And therefore, venues need to uh hope it never happens, but they need to expect that it could happen. And you did a master's, didn't you, in counter-terrorism, and and that did give you a different lens to drive forward on this this work. Completely. I mean, the reason I did the master's wasn't to try and work on Martin's law. That hadn't even occurred to me at the time when I started it. Uh the reason I studied the the terrorism courses, when Martin died, I realized I knew zero about terrorism and couldn't understand why people would do what they do, why somebody would blow themselves up and kill themselves for some ideology. I didn't even know what ideology meant. I didn't know when terrorism started and what these people want. And I didn't know whether governments are doing anything about it. So the only way I could get answers was to study the topic. So I did the masters in counter-terrorism. Thank goodness I did it because halfway through it I started the campaign. And little did I know then that five, six years down the line I will be talking to prime ministers, home secretaries, security ministers, and people in the security industry. So thank goodness I did it so I can talk professionally. And you have and you do it, and it it's it's finding light in this awful time, but you talk. Um one of the things that you you mentioned was I think it was one of the first security minister ministers you met. You talked about I might be small, but so is a mosquito. Yeah. And what did you say to him? Well, when you meet ministers, I didn't realise obviously I'd never had dealings with the home office or pol politicians, but you never meet them on your own. So we were led into this room at the home office, and there was a whole, it was like a panel actually. There were five, six people across the table, and there were three of us, my my two co-campaigners who joined the campaign, and and I. And Brendan Cox, my co-campaigner, at the end of the meeting, he leant forward and he said, Figin, this is your meeting before the meeting finishes. Is there a final word you have for the minister? And I immediately looked at the minister and said, actually, yes, I have. You see, Minister, as you can see, I'm only five feet short. But I did read somewhere that if you think small is not effective, you have never been in bed with a mosquito. I'm the mosquito and I ain't going anywhere. I'll be buzzing around yours and the government's head until this legislation is done. They all laughed about it, but realized I think it was. That's a powerful that's a but that's about where did you get that strength to just drive this forward and in your way? Um Well, the worst thing in life happened to me, and I I remember meeting Keir Starmer uh about 18 months before he became Prime Minister at the Manchester Evening headquarters. And when he was introduced to me, I thought, oh, here we go again, I need to explain who I am and what I do. And to my surprise, he knew who I was and the work I'm doing. The mosquito. So he said, Tell me, I keep meaning to ask you, I've got two teenagers. What motivates you as a parent to do this? And I looked at him and I said, Well, having my child's ashes on a bookshelf at home is a really good motivator. And he teared up a bit, patted me on the shoulder, and walked off. It was hard to take, you know. So, um, but that is my reality, and that is ultimately what drives me. I don't want any other family to be in that position. And you always say you don't run a campaign, you're the the initiator or instigator of and main campaigner of Martin's law. How has that independence really helped you move this forward? Because it might not feel like to you, but it does feel like speed. Because creating a law doesn't just happen overnight, is your and people don't understand as I didn't till we met a few weeks back, that then there's the implementation period, for goodness sake. Yeah, I mean, I had no idea. I naively, when I first was doing this all on my own, I I started in in January 2019, I started an online campaign uh that lasts six months and then they stop. And naively I thought that'll be it, the government will do the law then. And uh little did I know that's not the case, and uh that I'm gonna do this full-time as a full-time job, and that campaigning involves lots of meetings with government, it involves um committee meetings, feels a bit like court, where it's it's a scrutiny period of two months, and it's literally like a room where they pull the legislation apart and ask you questions. Um, I didn't realise I'm going to be sat in the Houses of Parliament, in the House of Commons and the Lords for weeks on end, um, watching them debate it and again pull it apart. I had no idea, and of course, then I didn't realise that after the king signs it, that there is that implementation period. Because I thought after he signed it, I can slow down, and that is the end of the campaign. And then I realized no, I'll have to carry it on until it's implemented. Who helped you through this? Because I know you talked about having your fellow campaigners with you going into the home office, but you know, we we talk openly on our podcast about the support of mentors and sponsors, but there's there's no go-to place to drive this creating a law in immense extreme circumstances. How did you know what to do? You sat in the House of Lords or the House of Commons or wherever you may have been. You've got people pulling things apart. Yeah, I'm assuming you can't put your hand up and say anything. Are you an observer or can you input? Um, no, it was very difficult to put in because you it it feels very official like a court, and you're up in the gallery watching them criticize and and pull it apart, and you can't say anything. So that was tough, but um, obviously that led me then my learning through that journey that I had to sort of go through and all the personal prices I paid over the six and a half, seven years of campaigning. That's leading me to become a motivational speaker after this, because once the law is done, I need to keep myself busy somehow. Um but yeah, it was tough. But actually, um I right at the beginning I said to my husband, I need to do this as a mother, I can't do this with you as a parent. You need to let me do this campaign on my own. I can't include you in this. And that was a difficult conversation I had to have. But for some reason, instinctively, I knew I had to do this as a mother. It would be more impactful. And I was right, but like with a lot of things that go uh exponentially bigger than I expected, I realized I can't do it on my own. Thank goodness Brendan Cox and then Nick Oldworth came on board. I now have a comms guy, Nathan, and my husband uh is now a full member of the campaign team because I've it got to a point where I couldn't do it all on my own. And of course, the walk was impossible on my own. Who has surprised you that has lent in to help or offer a support or a hug? I know that was me. When I first met Fegan, I have to say, I met you at an event today. I came up and I said, Could I give you a hug? And afterwards I sent an apologetic email, didn't I? I was like, oh my goodness, was that so impressive? But I was just so in awe and grateful for what you've done. And sometimes I just wanted to give you a hug. I couldn't believe you apologized. Cracky, I've become such a huggy person. Um, because you know, it's it's human connection, isn't it? And and that human connection is literally what got me through the last eight, eight and a half years since Martin died, even before the campaign. People were just so kind throughout that time and so supportive that obviously that keeps you going. And you talked about meeting the Prime Minister before he was Prime Minister and sort of even just having that not pat on the shoulder and a patroniser, but that pattern that recognition. In that moment, we connected as on a human level, never mind politics. And that human-level connection, I feel with the politicians I interact with now because they understand. Um, because I've shared my story with them. And you've sat in rooms, like you said, of like the Home Office, the House of Parliament, the House of Lords, you've been with venue operators, you've been with experts, community groups, you have been everywhere. But you appear to have made this complex safety conversations accessible. Is that because you've done it as as a mum? Yes, because the thing is, um, any parent will understand why I do what I do. Um, because every parent, you know, when I when I talk and do my presentations, uh talking about the legislation, I often say to the audience, and there's this there are sometimes police, counterterrorism specialists, security specialists, whole room full. And I always say at the beginning, how many of you are parents in here? And most hands go up and I say, I want you to listen not just as a professional, I want you to listen as a parent. And people start crying in in, you know, when I do present, um, and and I can be grown men, they they just wipe their tears. And and the reason is because they connect and think that could be me and my family. And and that is exactly what I try to give because I never thought ever in my life that terrorism would affect me and my family. And within a split second, the two-thirds of a second it took the guy to detonate the bomb, our life has changed. He may as well have put a grenade in the middle of my lounge at home because it tore my family apart. And when you're talking to parents and you're talking to community and you want what do you want them to go away and take action on or do to to make this every day? Well, I think the danger of terrorism radicalization of children, this is so out there now. You know, we look at the global situation. We have wars going on and conflict all over. And unfortunately, whilst those conflicts may be in the Ukraine, maybe in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere in the world, unfortunately, uh with the help of the internet, unf sadly, um what happens in those places elsewhere is acted out on our streets and people become disgruntled about things and then do stuff in this country, and and that is difficult then. The reason why this law is necessary is because terrorism is on the increase. Um there are at any given time, and these figures I'm about to give you, haven't changed for the last five, six years. So there is roughly about 800 uh active life investigations that are happening, that people are going to court for terrorism offences, they will be charged and imprisoned. We have around two and a half thousand subjects of interest who are not criminal yet, but MI5 and the government are keeping a close eye over them because they're doubling in terrorism-related stuff, but not quite at the criminal place. Then we have, and that's the figure that worries me the most, about 30,000 people who what I always describe as are dancing around the rim of terrorism. Um, and there is no way any country on this planet could possibly keep an eye on all those people. That's a huge number to keep an eye on. And therefore, I say terrorism is not just the government's police's counterterrorism and security services business. It's everybody's business. We all need to be aware of it. And that's not in order to frighten people. But you know, the world's become a bit of a dangerous place because of the geopolitical stuff that's happening worldwide. And often people act out on our streets because it people are unhappy. So whatever. But we need to all become a bit more security aware of our surroundings. You know, we have in England knife crime. It doesn't have to necessarily be terrorism. We need to just be aware of people around us. And there is training that the government offers free of charge. It's on the Protect UK website. Any adult can go on it and do that training and it really helps you be so much more aware. It's it's it's educate yourself, isn't it? Keep educating. Totally. Um you talk about radicalization. And one of the things that you have proactively and passionately done is go to speak to schools and colleges. Yes. So I became aware through my studying that there's uh the internet is quite a source for people radicalizing young people because terrorist groups want to increase the numbers, of course, and young people are vulnerable and easily accessible. So I started talking um to school children. Obviously, with my training, I I know what to tell them now, thankfully. But I talk to them about the tricks online radicalizers use, um, the sort of things they say, the platforms they operate on, um the things they try to say to them and and the uh vulnerabilities they're looking for in young people. I also tell children about these are the signs that you can see in yourself or others that may indicate you're being radicalized, you're in the process of, and this is how you can get help to stop it. And and uh so actually um that is really important to to tell young people because these recruiters online are very, very cunny and very um clever at the way they groom people over a long period of time. What have you learned most from our young younger generation teenagers? Um Do you know the the uh reaction I get of young people is quite positive, and uh I've been to a school recently where they immediately after my talk decided to set up a Martin's law group and uh um and um they have an open door. Young people themselves, they're gonna have an open door thing where people can dis young people can discuss it. And I also talk and schools about the importance of values such as kindness and tolerance, because it's the values that we need to have so that we don't become vulnerable to recruitment. So and and a lot of the schools run projects on kindness and tolerance after after I visit them. So that's good. So wow, it's that ripple effect. You're not you're not just creating that moment of conversation, that moment of talk. That's creating movements, but it's also translating it for our young, for young people to do it in their way as well. But it is important to address young people because they're the future adults, they're the future parents, they're the the future policy makers and decision makers. So if they can be become more kind and more tolerant and become more aware of danger online, then that makes for safer adults in the future. And you've spoken thousands of times now. International stages, you name it, you've probably spoken, influenced, created awareness. But do you ever get nervous? No, it's really weird. I get asked that quite often, and um I don't actually. Um I think there was one occasion at the UN in in New York where I was on a panel and we were the room was empty and we were chatting on the panel. And then when I turned round, the room had filled with hundreds of people, and they were all looking very serious, people in suits and looking a bit grumpy. I tried to pick up my glass of water and my hand shook and I put it back down, thinking it's not a good idea. But apart from that, no, I I don't get nervous. And the reason being is, as I said earlier, the worst thing has happened to me. Nothing can be worse than that. And in fact, my first ever talk was actually at the European Parliament. And you have been knitting peace bears, haven't you, for years? Everyone has its own personality, its own story, and its own little quirks. So, yeah, the bears. I have knitted bears uh for over 10 years before Martin died. In fact, I've even written a therapy book, a storybook for adults only, um, which is a therapeutic self-help book with 16 bears with mental health issues and how they solved them. And um, Martin and his brother helped me publish it. I self-published the book, and it's called Bears Have Issues Too. Yes, I saw that. But the bears, I started knitting for my own mental health because I lost my hearing, uh, 60% on my left ear, uh, and I ended up with tinnitus because I had a medical emergency. I didn't realize I needed treating urgently, so my hearing loss on that side is permanent. And I got quite depressed about it because my my um ears are my working tools as a therapist. So um, and then I thought, well, you always tell your depressed clients to get creative. Do it yourself, get creative. That's how I started knitting the bears. And um, I had so many that I sold them online, but then Martin died, and I decided to turn my bears into peace bears to spread peace and kindness and love, but also to say thank you to everybody who helped me on the journey of Martin's law. So a lot of the ministers, including Keir Starmer, Rishi Sunak, uh, a lot of the home secretaries, they all have a bear age. If you could give anyone now, real or imagined or past, a peace bear, who would that be and why? Oh, Donald Trump probably.

Speaker:

Do you know why? Because he needs peace.

Speaker 1:

Because he needs to learn about peace and humbleness and kindness and and and wind down what he does a bit. Um, yeah.

Speaker:

He would be the person, to be honest.

Speaker 1:

So maybe you do that and there's another platform for you to speak on because that's one of your that's that's what we want to do. We want to amplify what you're doing, Fegan. When I first met you uh only only a short while ago, and I'm like, right, we all have, we talk about power, and power can be negative power, but we talk about using your power for good, which is what you are clearly have been doing and continue to do. And I my ask out there is please encourage vegan into your organizations, into your communities for a fee, because this lady's gonna eat, right? Because there's so much learning. There's so much learning that that you can pass on, and there are communities, the ripple of pet effect that you can play. Look at what you you did in the schools. I think we have to get behind what you're doing because everyone, you you talk about having those one good deed a day. In fact, I'll save that one. Um but we all have that power, we all have that power for good, right? And we can all encourage it. And I'm there's a there's an amazing lady out there, if you've not already met her, called Pinky Lilani, and she runs a National Kindness Awards, and I met her many years ago uh in London, and she's just it's like kindness personified, and now I've met you who exactly, you know, that have that kindness in you, and I think we can make things better with kindness, can't we? Totally. So I I from the age of four used to play a game, and I'm I'm old, I'm nearly 65, so I've been doing this for over 60 years. But I, from the age of four, had this game that I want to do something nice uh every day, and and I did that, and obviously, when I became an adult, that has been my mantra. Do one nice kind deed a day. I brought my kids up that way. And uh, and to me that is really important. In fact, when I go to schools, I give them pledge cards where they can commit to one act of kindness a day, and the the children love it, and and a lot of the schools are doing projects with those cards, which is lovely, you know. So it's really good. And and sometimes I get messages from schools saying the school community is a lot kinder and nicer now since you've talked, and there's less arguments in the dining room or less fights on the playground, which is great. And you're a mum of five. Yeah. What would your kids say are your superpowers? My superpower, um gosh, I think in terms of just being a mum, just the way I look at them, they know exactly what I say when I give that certain mum look. Um, but my superpower, I think, is probably um well, the work I do now, I I surprised myself to be honest, um, because I used to be quite an introvert before Martin died, and I've changed as a person, and I think my children um uh have actually managed to get through what we did because I set an example of um not caving in and not disintegrating. So I think to stand up straight and look forward and not keep looking back and experiencing the pain very openly has helped them carry on as well. But that's a sign of of greatness, is that vulnerability and authenticity and openness? That's what I see in you. Yeah, I mean it's it's been a difficult journey. I'm not, you know, I'm not denying it. And and I've I've been uh it's been a hard journey at times because I had to put up in the past with comments like she doesn't look like a grieving mum because I didn't cry at the ritual, and I cracked a joke during the ritual because Martin was absolute fun to be around, and he wouldn't want me to be crying about him and publicly be depressed. So um, you know, uh I got criticized for for many different things that I'm apparently unemotional and I have no empathy, and it's it's judged by people on Twitter when they watch a video of me, you know, analyzing my face, and it's just unbelievable what people do. And how do you deal with that? Um well, um as I said earlier, I've decided after Martin's Law is well, I've I've already started the process of motivational speaking. My learning's been masked, and my first learning was the forgiveness. I forgave the terrorist within the first month of the attack because I felt I need that forgiveness to be able to carry on in all the roles I play in my life. And and that protected me from my soul being hijacked by bitterness and anger. And Martin's Law wouldn't exist without that forgiveness, and I think my kids would have lost part of their mum had I not forgiven. So that was the first thing. Dealing with hurtful stuff, even politicians uh talking in the House of Parliament, like knowing I'm up in the gallery seeing me, but despite that saying, we must not just churn out legislation because we feel sorry for Fegan Murray. And and that's hurtful, you know, when you when you hear stuff like that. But what I've learned is that you need to go away, feel pathetic, go in a corner and cry and sulk and and feel really sorry for yourself and feel that pain that comes your way. But don't stay there and you dust yourself off and you use that then as fuel to be even stronger and more determined. So that's what I do. And that's that's been my learning. Looking at the bigger picture, seeing the terrorist as a newborn baby, and thinking, no, you you actually were not born as a terrorist, somebody poisoned your mind, which enabled me to forgive the guy. Those skills that I have learned along the way, I feel can help other people now. And I want to be able to share that with people. And when you're not campaigning, motivational speaking, influencing, uh, upstaging politicians, uh, all of those things, knitting. What is your downtime? Is it family time? Is the time for vegan? Yeah, so family is all dispersed. There's only my husband and I living at home as well. Stuart. Yeah, Stuart, yeah. Um we um actually we decided, we were talking about Christmas gifts earlier, so we decided to give each other um uh cinema, unlimited cinema tickets so that we can start going to the cinema more often, which does it. Day day night. Absolutely. Cinema used to be my passion, so I want to re-ignite that passion again. Um, but also uh knitting, uh uh you know, a good day for me when I can switch off is uh being in my lounge with a woolen blanket, cups of tea, surrounded by my woolen knitting, and watching a place in the sun or escape to the country. Sometimes a little bit of trashy daytime TV. Place in the sun, where was yours? Where would yours be, Fegan? Um, do you know what? I don't necessarily need the sun. I enjoy watching it, but my husband and I we bought a lodge in Lincolnshire and we escaped there quite often. I'm happy, it's my happy place, yeah. Okay, yeah. Who would play you in a movie? Uh most definitely Helena Bonham Carter. Yes, because yeah, but also humour. Yeah. You know, and I that's so important. And what is your favourite film ever? Well, you might not have had those cinema vouchers then, but what would you what was your favorite? My fav one of my favorites is the um the kite runner. Oh you know, often when you read a book and the film is then not so good, but in that case, the film was as good as the book, I felt. I agree, I agree. Now we have a power jar. Okay. What could go wrong with the power jar? We have a question from one of our previous guests. Okay. Are you willing to delve in there, Fegan?

Speaker 2:

Let us take off the image of the power jar. Delve deep. Oh, it's a long one there.

Speaker:

You get a free billboard in the busiest spot in your city. What do you put on it? Oh, that's an easy one.

Speaker 1:

I think you've got to go again. Come on, that's too easy. That's too easy. That's too easy. And you can't just say Hall and Bonham Carter starring in Martin's Law.

Speaker:

If there were a movie series made about your life so far, who would you want to play you and my story?

Speaker 1:

Stop it right there. This is ridiculous. This feels like like, come on, we're gonna go one more.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker:

I'm working it hard, aren't I? Right. So time luck here.

Speaker 1:

You're suddenly a contestant on a reality show. Which one are you accidentally perfect for? Well, it can't be um escape from the jungle because I don't eat weird stuff. It would probably be actually I wouldn't mind Big Brother. Oh, interesting. See, I thought you might have gone traitors. Do you know what? I I would be really bad at it. Yeah, see, now we're all thinking that. Um, Fegan Murray OBE. Um, I've loved having you on our couch today. Thank you. Um, I'm so glad that I lent in for the hug when we first met, and we're all behind you. Uh we are power. Thank you. Um and if you're not, then make sure you get behind Fegan because the ripple effect is powerful. And it's their everyday, their everyday actions, the everyday observations that can make change. But thank you for being a kind and glorious human being.

Speaker:

Thank you. Thanks for having me here on the platform.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, and thank you so much. Subscribe on YouTube, Apple, Amazon Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Leave us a review or follow us on socials. We are power underscore net on Insta, TikTok, and Twitter. We are power on LinkedIn, Facebook, and we are underscore power on YouTube.

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Simone Roche MBE

Host