How A Royal Navy Educator Built A Life Of Service

In this episode of the We Are PoWEr Podcast Simone Roche MBE sits down with Ann Miller-McCaffrey to mark Armed Forces Day and trace almost four decades of Royal Navy life from the WRNS era to the reserves. 

We talk honestly about change, belonging and how sport, service and family shape the person you become.  Ann reflects on the personal highs and challenges that come with military life, from navigating major cultural shifts within the Armed Forces to finding purpose through leadership, teamwork and community. Her story offers an honest insight into resilience, identity and the importance of creating opportunities for the next generation both within and beyond military service. 

Main themes in the episode include:
• marking Armed Forces Day and why reflection matters
• joining the WRNS and how rules for women have shifted
• building a career in Education Training Support across bases and services
• using sport as a lifeline through tough periods
• creating a formal women’s Royal Navy football team
• living through the LGBTQ+ military ban and its lasting impact
• running HMS Eaglet operations as facility manager
• myth-busting what defence forces do for everyday life
• cadets, education, and the values young people can learn
• proposing at Liverpool Pride and building a family through adoption

Find out more about We Are PoWEr here.  💫

Transcript

Welcome And Armed Forces Day

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, hello, and welcome to the We Are Power Podcast. If this is your first time here, the We Are Power Podcast is the podcast for you, your career, and your life. We release an episode every single Monday with listeners in over 60 countries worldwide where you'll hear personal life stories, top-notch industry advice, and key leadership insight from amazing role models. As We Are Power is the umbrella brand to Northern Power Women Awards, which celebrates hundreds of female role models and advocates every year. This is where you can hear stories from all of our awards alumni and stay up to date with everything MPW Awards and We Are Power. Well, hello and welcome to a very special episode of the We Are Power podcast. Not only are we here in the finest military attire, um, but we're also here celebrating uh Armed Forces Day, uh, which is an amazing time of year that we need to take a step back, look and reflect at what our amazing forces do. Um so I'm joined today by someone I have known for such a long time, before we are power, before Northern Power Women. And I think bizarrely enough, Anne Miller McCaffrey and I, um, we met in London, actually, of all the places, even though we're both based up here and are Evertonians. Never at the match, Anne.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Absolutely. Yeah, we did meet in London. We did at somebody else's event. Um, and then it must have been the accent drew us together.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Always, always it's that magnetism that next year is your 40th anniversary in the Royal Navy, having joined the Rennes Women's Royal Naval Service back in 1987, which is a year before I joined first time round, before having my then sabbatical, and then back in this honorary captain's role.

Women In The Navy Then And Now

SPEAKER_01 1:55

For those of you who are not aware, um I've been an honorary captain in the Royal Navy, uh Royal Naval Reserves for the last uh number of years, and it's uh it's an amazing full circle moment for me to be able to come back, quite a bit of mischief, uh, do some great advocacy because for me it was always the best thing I ever did. But 40 years, did you ever think at any point, Anne, of making a career of this?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Um ironically, when I joined, you could only sign on for nine years. Um I remember. Because the Women's Royal Naval Service was a separate service to the Royal Navy. So as you remember yourself, um, you could only sign on for nine years, whereas the men signed on for 22 years. Um, so anybody that sort of went past that was sort of classed as um an old and bold past nine years.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Do you know? I totally forgot about that. I remember that sort of some of the rules, weren't there? Because back in those days, God, that's such a we're showing our age now, but you know, but we would say you couldn't be pregnant, you could leave if you were getting married, you couldn't be gay. I it was bizarre, wasn't it, to think that that is when you're saying that is nearly 40 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

I know, witnessed so much social change. Um, I think I'm gonna write a book at some point, to be honest. But basically, yeah, when when we joined, um if you if you got pregnant, you had to leave. Um, but we signed a contract to agree to that, so because that was the the rules at the time. Um if not long before that, if you got married, you had to leave. So I know quite a few people that left uh prematurely on marriage. Um and then fast forward to the year 2000, anybody that was lesbian or gay um had to leave before then, um, and were actually dismissed. Uh come on to that in more depth later, I'm sure. Um, but yeah, the the changes have been massive. Um, women go into sea now, every single role is available to women apart from a rural naval, um, sorry, a Roman Catholic priest, which is obviously the church's decision, not the Navy's decision. Um, so yeah, we've we've come a long way.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

It has come a long way. And I always I always equate it to it being literally an aircraft carrier that can only or a tanker that can only move a certain amount, but it has moved, right? Um and did you think because people say, oh gosh, you couldn't go to sea and you couldn't do this, but like you said, you signed up for that. You didn't, we didn't that was what the rules were, right? So I never felt disadvantaged for being a woman.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Um at that point, I didn't I didn't, to be honest. Um, I think I didn't feel disadvantaged initially because everybody in the group that I was in were all women and we were all treated the same. So we weren't exposed to anything else that was going on outside of that. But then the the aspiration to go to sea was always there with me. Um, and that was from talking to my granddad when he was in the merchant navy during the Second World War. Told me about all the different places that he went to around the world, the different cultures he experienced, and I wanted some of that, and that was one of the main reasons I joined. Um, so I was hoping that you know, at some point I would get to go. Um, and I think the the warrant officer in the careers office at the time gave me a little wink saying it's not too far off. Um, and then what, four or five years later, women were allowed to go to sea.

Career Adventures Sport And Football Legacy

SPEAKER_01 5:15

So and did you start as an ETS and education education training support or did you subspect to that?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Um I actually started as an education training support. So the jobs um it was quite difficult to get into that branch actually, um, because the the jobs are very few and far between, and they just amalgamated two branches to make the education training support. Um so it was I I I think from when I initially applied, I had to wait about a year to get in, um, which sort of is unknown these days, I think. Um, but yeah, I had to wait quite a while. But I did I loved every minute of my career um in the education world.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

And what did that see you doing? Where did you go? Because like we're saying, you you know, up until those first few years, you couldn't go to sea. So where did you get to?

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

And what mischief did you cause?

SPEAKER_00 6:07

We'll come on to mischief later. Um, but just as a oh, roll back the memory blocks now. Um, let's see. I went to I'll try and just reel off where I went. Um my first sort of engagement with the the Navy was starting in Plymouth at HMS Rally, then I moved to HMS Nelson in Portsmouth to do my trade training. Then I my first proper draft was Royal Naval air station called Rose down in Cornwall. Um after that I went to Raw Marines Pool. Um then I went to 4.2 Commando north of Plymouth. Then from there I went to um the Royal Naval College at Greenwich in London. From there, I went to um uh Gibraltar, so British Forces Gibraltar, back to HMS Dryad in Portsmouth, um, HMS Nelson, um, RAF Halton. The role that I did education-wise was like a tri-service role. So I got to work with the RAF a couple of times, and I also worked with the Army as well at the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst. Um so yeah, I've done I've done all of the base ports apart from Scotland, uh, and then done a little bit foreign as well, but worked with all three services, um, Royal Marines, fleet airarm, uh yeah, so plenty of mischief underlying.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

But something that's transferable. I know you're full-time reserves now, aren't you? So you're based at HMS Eaglet, um, and it means you can go home every night. Yeah. But what has kept you for this just shy of 40 years in the blue?

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Wow. Um I I have this conversation quite a lot with veterans, to be honest. Um I think anybody that joins the armed forces has to be a special type of person. And I don't mean that in an elite way. I just mean you have to have um the skills and attributes to be able to adapt. Um, and if you if you love a job that you're doing but you want to do that in different environments, then it's the ideal job. Uh, you get to move around quite a lot, you get to um experience things that you wouldn't experience in any other job. Um, so I think if you if you're adaptable and you want a challenge and you want some adventure, then the military is definitely for you. It's definitely what's kept me involved. And even in really because we all have challenges, when I've had tough times, I've then turned my energies to sport and excelled in the sporting arena as well. So when work wasn't going so great, I'd do sport, that'd lift me back up again. I would only be doing that sport in that country because of the job that I'm in. So that kind of reinvigorated me to love the Navy even more.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

And you've brought something with you, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Because during your time in the Navy, you played football, didn't you? Yes. I have brought a small, well, it's not small, it means a lot to me actually. Um, this is my rural Navy football cap. Um, so um anybody that understands football will know that you get caps when you play. Uh, but this one, um, a group of friends and I in the early 90s uh realized that there wasn't a formalised women's football team in the Navy, so we decided to do something about it. We set a team up. Um, we had some challenges along the way, but let's say because of what we did then, the girls that play football now for the Navy are treated exactly the same as the men. Um, they get the same opportunities, the same sponsorship, they get to go to training camps in different parts of the world. Um, and they just the they have they're not there like we were years ago um with hand-me-down kits that you had to break. You had to you had to break the socks to get them on because they were so crusty, that kind of that kind of horrible, horrible thing. Um, so it's definitely progressed a lot. I'm very proud of this cap. Um and a couple of years ago, um friend of myself and a friend Michelle got inducted into the Royal Navy Football of Fame. So I've got one of these in gold as well. It's all framed up. Michelle. Michelle Pasco.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Michelle Pasco legend. Yes. And actually, when I went through training, she was doing her PTI training, I think, at that time. So yeah, it's a it's weird, isn't it? It's a at probably the time that we served, and I I I feel a bit of a uh an imposter because obviously I've I started, then I went away, and then I have the the beauty of being able to come back and advocate. But I always say it was the best thing I did to to join, and it was the best thing I ever did to have another adventure, and and now this is a a third adventure, if you like. But um, I you know, back in those days we were one in four percent, I think, of of women in the Navy. Um and now, uh and I think when I went through Dartmouth, we went down to like one percent, something like that. So it's what do you see as the the there's been highs and lows, haven't there, over your probably your near four decades? What would you say are the the the the high moments that got you through playing football?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Definitely playing football and hockey, because I've had to play two sports, not one. Of course you did like a challenge. Um, so doing the the sport, um just meeting people, the opportunities that I've got. Um, one of them I've stewarded at Wimbledon um as well. That's you have done that for every year, haven't you? Not quite, not quite. Um, I have the first year I did it was in 1991. Wow. Um, so I've been privileged to be able to do it for many years. I haven't done it every single year because of being away, and obviously I'm in the Navy and I've got a real job. Um, but some people will actually say I only join the reserve, so I can continue to steward at Wimbledon. And fact or fiction? That's um it's not fiction.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

It's not fiction. What's the best selfie you've ever had at Wimbledon, Anne? Uh we're not allowed to take selfies, Simone. Oh, of course. But what if someone puts you in their selfie?

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Um Tom Cruise asked me for a selfie once.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

He's so demanding that guy. Do you not say, listen, it's not top gun now, mate? And what about some of the the low moments? You talked about sport, help you get through the low moments. There were, you know, we talked about the the changes, you know, it's it is incredible to think um now we can't imagine, and and we'll we'll talk about your family and and Dee in a short while. You know, things have changed, but to not be married, to not be, you couldn't be gay, you couldn't be pregnant, it seems crazy now, doesn't it? That's not you know, and but there has been change, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:46

There has, yeah, there has.

The Gay Ban And Finding Yourself

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Um I did I think that it's it's probably an appropriate time to talk about um the the recent well, not so recent, but the lifting of the ban um of lesbian and gay people in the military at this point. Um I when I joined up, I didn't realise who I was. Um so when I was actually asked a question in the recruitment office, are you homosexual? Because that was part of the recruiting process, um, I said no, because at the time I didn't really know what that was, and I didn't really know who I was. Um fast forward many years, uh I now realize that I've been attracted to both men and women. Um, but I never acted upon that because I would lose the job that I love. Um, having spoken to some veterans recently, um, because there's been a lot of work done in the backgrounds for non-financial reparations and financial reparations um from the ban being lifted in January 2000. Um the some people went through so much. Um, I'm really glad I didn't have to do that. Um, and some of them have still not found their place in the world. Um, some still have criminal records because of the the way the system was back then. Um so I think the way I coped with that myself was I threw my energies into sport. I tried to avoid relationships to be honest. Uh didn't really have any long-term relationships, and the ones that I did get into were always long-distance relationships, so it wasn't 24-7 full on. Um I suppose some people would say I lived a bit of a double life. Um and the energy to do that was um well, it was quite tiring. Um, but then that's where my throwing myself into the sport, I think, distracted me from that and re-energized me um to obviously focus on my career as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

And at what point did you leave to then transition to the reserves? Where was that in your adventure?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Um, I did 24 years in the regular service, uh, was based at RAF Holton at the time, and I left um with no intention of joining the reserves, to be honest. Um, what were you gonna do? I don't know. When I was growing up, I wanted to be a footballer. So you got a cap. I did, I have got a cap. So I did get to play football around the world thanks to the Navy. Um, but I think I was probably gonna go into some sort of coaching um side of things, but I really didn't have a great plan to be honest. Um, so I did a year out and then it it took me a little while to get back in, but I I you know, I when I joined the reserves, um I went into what was the phase one training side of things, um, looking after the new recruits when they joined the reserves. So and it would that was full on. Um I joined on the first of July and then on the 19th of July I was taking my first course through Rally. Um luckily I'd done the job previously, and that's why they asked me to do it again, uh, so I could just revert back and take the cadets through.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Um Wow, so so what 17, 18 years in the reserves?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Um I joined in 2012, so yeah, my math was. My maths, my maths was rubbish then as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

14 years, 14 years. Plus three years, but it's okay, it's all good. And what have you what's the difference? What's

Reserves Role At HMS Eaglet

SPEAKER_01 16:15

been the main difference to you about being in the reserves? Is it going home every night?

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Um, it's an interesting one actually, because I I do miss the camaraderie. I do miss being I didn't get to see very often. I only went twice um because of the role that I was in, but I do miss that side of life. But I suppose the little regret is that I would have liked more time at sea um and visiting different countries around the world. Um, but the the upside of the being in the reserves and on the contract I'm on at the moment, I get to go home every night. I get to see my family. Um I've settled in Liverpool and bought a house in Liverpool, whereas beforehand I shied away from commitment, I'd say. Um, but now that I'm comfortable in my own skin, I can I've committed into a relationship and a family now as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

And we'll come on to MD in a second, but your role now, your HMS Eagler, which is basically the head of the North for the Royal Navy. Um, and you are running, it's quite a big responsibility there. You've talked about sort of dealing with entry level to veterans. It's you're doing a lot, aren't you, in there? How do you describe it? How do you describe what you do now at a party?

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Well, my official job title is facility manager. So I look after the safety and compliance of the of the establishment so that everybody that comes on board, let's use some naval terminology. Yeah, let's get it in there. Uh everyone that comes on board um is safe and is welcomed. So that's a lot of stuff going on in the background. Um, but then any sort of events that we do have coming on, um, obviously I bring people on to have a look around, do a recce, and then facilitate the logistics for the event. Um, so that can vary from anything from schools coming on to do um leadership tasks through to veterans having get get togethers with their associations, um, through to ship's company having a a wedding or a christening or a naming ceremony, something like that. So really wide variety um of things that goes on. And I think the that variety just makes the job um not saying that health and safety is boring, but it makes the job um a little bit more palatable.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Absolutely, because it's people, it's people focused, and you've always been people focused.

Defence Myths Cadets And Education

SPEAKER_01 18:40

What do you think is one of the biggest misconceptions about the armed forces as we're um rushing uh up to armed forces day? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Wow, um I could do a whole thing about that, but I I like to do the myth busting piece. So for me, it's that um a lot of people see the armed forces as a career for um single people, um, which in some cases it could be, um depending on what family dynamic you've got um supporting you. Um, but also it's it's not about fighting, but it is. It's a it's a weird one to describe. Um I like to look at the armed forces as a defence force, um, looking after the fact that we've got 40% of our um food comes in through the shipping lanes, so they need to be protected. We've got the underground cables in the oceans that need protecting, otherwise we wouldn't have Wi-Fi, we wouldn't have the ability to do what we're doing now. Um so I think the the myth busting piece there is that and we don't do a good job about it, is advocating what defence does for civil society.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

And what would you do if you had a magic wand? You know, and I'm I'm thinking because you come from the education background as well, should this be taught in schools?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Um I think some of the attributes like I'm a big advocate for the cadet services, like the C cadets, the Army cadets, the REF cadets, um, because I think having those organizations just instills um core values in youngsters. Um so something similar, I suppose, would be would be good to do, um, along with banking and applying for a mortgage and all that sort of stuff. There's so many things that you could put into the curriculum, but I know there isn't um enough enough space. Um so yeah, there'd be lots of things to um and what do you think your uh granddad would think now having seen you, you joined because you he was your role model.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

He was the person that you looked up to and you wanted some of them trips and adventures. What do you think he would say?

SPEAKER_00 20:58

I think he would be super proud of what I've achieved. Um and the the gotten through the highs, the lows, um, experience the things that I have. You know, who gets to throw themselves off a table mountain in South Africa on the 1st of January on the city.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

You can't just drop the year from places like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Um and then two days later skydive over the Namibian desert. Um that's just showing off now, Annie. I know, I don't I can carry on. Um, but no, I've got I've had so many experiences. I think that he would just be really proud that I've done what I wanted to do. Um, and he would have encouraged me wholly to do that.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

And you have a hat family here based in Liverpool.

Pride Marriage And Adoption Journey

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Uh, the wonderful Emma, and then you've also got Dee, who you adopted five and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, another story there. Um, I proposed to Emma in July 2016. We got married in The November. Um, we didn't plan on waiting around. Um, but I did propose to her in full uniform on the stage at Liverpool Pride. I remember the social posts on that. I think you made the foot of the Liverpool acca. Yeah, we did. Your granddad would be proud. Um, but that went viral. And the first thing we had to do was ring our family and let us know, let them know what had happened because um that wasn't a plan. But yeah, um, and then we did go through um the IVF process to to get a family. Uh I must admit, when Emma and I first met, she said she asked me what I thought about having a family. And I said, I don't do pets, plants, or children because I don't do commitments and I can't look after them. Um, every single plant I've had has died. Every single pet I've had I've had to get rid of. Um, and of the children I normally give back to their parents. So we we had a really serious conversation before we got married about what a family would look like. Um, so we did try the IVF route. Unfortunately, we were successful. Um, that was a roller coaster. Um, and then we adopted our little girl D in the June of 2020. So we had a really weird experience in our adoption process because of a global pandemic that was going on and nobody knew what would happen. Um, so all of our inter, well, the first couple of interviews were done face to face. And the people that actually decided on the adoption panel that Dee was going to be coming to live with us, we've never met. We would love to meet at some point because they made they said yes to the biggest decision in our life, but we've not had an opportunity to thank them. Um, and also our social worker, Roger, um, we went with SAFA um adoption service. And SAFA is the association for Soldiers, Sailors and Air Force Association, yeah. So military charity. Um, that service doesn't exist anymore, unfortunately, due to funding. Um, but our social worker there, our daughter has never met, and that's one thing that we're trying to achieve this year, um, is for her to meet him. But yeah, so I've gone from having no pets, no plants, no children, to a wife, a child, a cat, and uh, we've just renovated our garden to grow our own vegetables. So I've changed. And did you ever see that at any point other than last?

SPEAKER_01 24:36

No. No. You were just gonna be commitment free.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

And how has little D changed your world? Oh my god. Um I see the world through a totally different lens now. Um it's things that I stopped doing many years ago, like um art, Lego, um creative activities. I'm I'm doing more of now. Um and I just love watching her find her place in the in the world. Um reading books that I I haven't read for years. Uh Magic Faraway Tree, name drop that one because that's a generational thing. Emma doesn't have a clue about the magic faraway tree, and I'm like, get excited because it's coming out on the cinema soon. Um so yeah, it's uh just gives me a total different lens to look through and see the world in a in a bright, brighter, more colourful uh perspective. Literally the rainbow. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

And you talked about your you know, your grandfather and your granddad.

Saving Stories Veterans And Lessons

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Um when you were growing up, you wanted the stories. Now, before we started recording today, you were you were chatting about going, you want to you want to start, you want to capture these stories yourself because your adventures, you've already name-drapped them just for fun here. But how will you do that? Will you do you plan a book?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Um, I'm not too sure. I'm still working through, but I have started making voice voice notes, I've started writing things down, I've started collating pictures. Um because I'm a lot older, but my rationale behind it is to so that my daughter has something um for when I'm, you know, we all pass on, unfortunately. So when I'm no longer here, um she'll have something to look back on and be able to have the answers to the questions that she will have when she's getting older. Um, so the there's just so many things that I want to let her know that I've done and places I've been, people I've met. Um just so hopefully she'll be proud of me uh in the future.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

No, you went to go and speak at your daughter's school, I think a few weeks ago. And you took that very cap in, and I love the way you tell your story about the your service. Um, and you have seven. Is it seven? How many hats, uh caps and hats do you take with you? I think there was about seven I took to the last one.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah. One one was like when I first joined up. Um, you just obviously you get a berry. Um, so that was sort of talking about my early days. And then when I went to work with the Royal Marines, we used to get a a Global Laurel cap badge, which you don't get anymore. Um, so it's kind of a a a museum piece in my lifetime. Um, but so there was that cap as well. Um, and then I took a firefighting helmet so that the youngsters could appreciate the fact that when a ship's at sea, you know, you can't ring the fire brigade to come and help. You've got to everybody be on board has got to be able to do a job. There's no passengers. So to just um give that as a as a example. Um, and then I've got um another hat where when I got promoted to senior rate, which I never thought would happen, um not because I was mischievous, but possibly because I was a little bit mischievous. But I never thought I'd become a senior rate um because you know I come from a a quite deprived area of Liverpool. Um I've I my aspirations were never that high. Uh, and it's only as I've grown with confidence that I I am able to reflect and look back and think, yeah, I could have done it. And if I'd have had the confidence to do even more, what else would I have been able to achieve? Um but yeah, that and then the final hat is like a one that we had for um a veterans event, uh a reunion a few years ago. And that's just to remind me of the fact that you know veterans are around, there's so many veterans around that and people don't realise. Um, and those veterans are very proud of what they've done. And I've I've got a little bit of a mantra actually um for life. If those people before me didn't do what they did, I wouldn't have the had the experiences that I've had, and those following on from me wouldn't have the opportunities yet to be afforded to them. I really believe that. So my granddad fits into that, you fit into that, my wife fits into that. Everybody that I've had any sort of interaction with fits into that in some way.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

It's actually on the shoulders, shoulders of giants, isn't it? Like there will be no women's football within the Royal Navy if you hadn't have worn those ridiculously evil socks, right? Um, you know, so tell me, mate, what's the most mischief you ever got away with? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Um rapidly thinking. One that one that can be censored first um podcast. Uh I suppose the only, in fact, the only red mark I've got on my records, um, because they used to mark your records with red, um, was um when I was down in the Falkland Islands, uh, my best friend at the time was down there. Uh, she was a PTI, Trish, and I was on a ship. Um, the fact that two of us were in the same postcode in the Falkland Islands should never have happened, but the stars aligned and we were, and when we're together, we're very mischievous. Um, had a little bit of alcohol, mischievous. Um, basically, the the only way to get back to ship after a uh a few sociable drinks the night before was to get in a Land Rover to get back to Mare Harbour. But unfortunately, somebody else had done the similar and taking the Land Rover to the other side of the airfield. So when we were looking for the Land Rover first thing in the morning to get back to the ship, it wasn't there. Um so I got long story short, I got back to the ship a little bit later than planned and got into trouble for it.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Red marker.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Red mark.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Red mark. What are you excited about? You know, it's uh we're we're in a very challenging world right now. Uh there's a lot of uh focus and profile on on the military and in particular the the Royal Navy, but what uh what are you what are you what can you see changing? We've got a new First Sea Lord who's very much uh passionate about leadership uh and about you know really leading with that new style of leadership. Is that something you're excited about?

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Um I like to see things moving forward and progressing. Um and I think the new First Sea Lord's very pragmatic. Uh, he's already got rid of some bureaucracy on things like car passes and stuff like that, um, which are a nightmare to manage from a facility perspective. Uh so thank you, First Sealord. Um, but there's other things, you know, a pragmatic leadership style is really important. Uh the face of society is changing all the time. So the people that are recruited into the military are different to what they were years ago. Policies and processes may not fit. Um, so it's just having somebody there that goes, that's actually not quite right, let's change it. Um and the the recent outgoing director PT, um, Admiral Jude Terry was very much for that. Um, she'd she'd quite openly say in a forum, that's wrong, we're doing it wrong. Let's come up with a solution and empower people to create those solutions. Um so I think having people like that in charge is really exciting um to take the take the armed forces forward.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

And what's the thing that you've learnt most about the Navy, about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Um I think the most things the most I've learned about myself is probably that um I shouldn't procrastinate, I should just get on and do things, um, which I do in a lot of ways, but then there are some elements um that I wish I'd have done sooner. Um, but I think that's down to not having the the confidence. Um and I think you your confidence obviously is built from experiences. So if you've had poor experiences in the past, you're not necessarily going to have the confidence to move forward. Um having people around you, having a good team is is really important. Um so I always like to think myself as a good team member um to be approach uh approachable, um not give any any bull, you know, just if uh if somebody wants an honest opinion, I'll give them an honest opinion. And I wish people would have done that to me years ago, give me an honest opinion, because I think I would have chosen a slightly different um some decisions would have been slightly different in years gone by.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

And you talked about veterans as well, very key. But one particular association that you are a massive advocate for is the Association of Wrends.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Uh so the Association of Uh Women's Royal Naval Service. Uh you're heavily involved in that, aren't you? And and with a view to keep those stories being told.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah, I'm I'm kind of I've taken a little bit of a backseat over the last five years for obvious reasons, um, bringing up a child. Um, but I got involved with the Association Wrens in 2008. I attended one of their reunions in Blackpool. Um, and from then I've just been blown away by talking to the women about their experiences. Um, going back to me procrastinating. Um, I want to capture those women's stories um to be able to inform people of real life experiences. And it's not the things like, you know, oh yeah, I went to sea and I did this. Um, I went on this operation and I got this medal and I did this. It's more the really sort of grounded things that anybody would understand. So um the type of clothes that they used to wear, the uniform, you know, they they had something called blackouts, which were basically big blue bloomers that they used to wear. They didn't used to wear them, they used to use them for cleaning clots and things like that. So to hear stories like that is improvisation, right? Yeah, yeah. So adaptability improvisation. Um, and then even, you know, for those that were based up in the the northwest borders of Scotland in a hut that didn't have any electricity or water and they had to go and get water, what they wore, what they a you know, that kind of thing. What was their life? Yeah, you can't forget that. No, but it is being forgotten because nobody's recording it. So we need a Ren's power women, just putting it out there. We do, we do. Let's take a theme. Let's do it, take a steam.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Now, even before your glorious little D, you've always been a Disney fan, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yes, big Disney fan. Um ironically enough, though, I'd never been to Disneyland Paris or uh Florida until I met Emma. Um, so I don't know whether that's well, I don't know why that was. I just never did. Um, so the first time we went to Disneyland Paris, uh, I think that's back 2013 now, um, the only character I wanted to meet was Donald Duke. Um, not just because he's a mischievous navy person, um, but also um because uh I just liked the character. Um and we got into the park at eight o'clock in the morning, walked through to the bandstand, who was stood there. Donald Duck. Meant to be. I know. We were there for four days and the first 15 minutes did it for me. The rest was a bonus.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Forget it, forget it. I'm done. Tick. And is that is is that the character that reflects your Royal Navy adventure? Absolutely. Now, Anne, I'm gonna ask you to leap into our power

Power Jar Songs And Farewell

SPEAKER_01 36:43

jar. A power jar is a jar of questions that have got um nice little things in there from previous guests. So are you I I think it's time to j dive in. Okay. Do you take one? Read it out. No, do you need my glasses? We've done it in big print now.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

I should be okay. She says. What song do you wish you had written? Oh this is a generational one. Can I have two? You can. So the first one, um I think just because I'm a massive Kate Bush fan, um, would have been babushka.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Um, purely for the fact that of the the energy that that song gives. Every time I hear it, that's it. I just go off dancing. My daughter tells me off for my dancing. I've got um nano dancing apparently. Um, but yeah, so that would have been babushka. And weirdly enough at the moment, um Golden by K-pop Demon Hunters. Um, I'd heard the song on the radio and I was like, oh, some of that I'll resonate with some of that, and I couldn't work out why. And then we watched K-pop Demon Hunters um about 60 times. Wow. Children like to watch um repeat cartoons on repeat. Um, and then the story I think just resonates as well. Um, somebody feeling a little bit different, a little bit out, um, out of place. Um, but then the people around her showing her that she she does belong and that she has got a family.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

And you are golden. We were blue back in the Wrens days. We are now golden. It is literally the soundtrack of your life. And thank you so much for joining us to celebrate Armed Forces Day. It's important that we keep storytelling, storytelling about the Wrens and the Association of Wrens and the mischief. There's a lot of mischief in those women. I can tell you that for nothing. Oh yeah. Um, but thank you for taking the time. Thank you as well. We're so proud that the Royal Navy are behind our Power Pack, um, which is uh a programme that we're we're running at the City Liverpool College, um, which we're doing up at HMS Eagle. It's a great way to educate, isn't it? Forever the educator, Annie. I know, I know who that thought it. Oh, well, thank you so much for joining us. Wishing you all the best for Armed Forces Day. Um take a look out wide. Veterans are everywhere, serving personnel are everywhere. Say thank you next time you see them. And thank you, Anne, for joining us today. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you very much for inviting me. Subscribe on YouTube, Apple, Amazon Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Leave us a review or follow us on socials. We are power underscore net on Insta, TikTok, and Twitter. We are power on LinkedIn, Facebook, and we are underscore power on YouTube.