Still Becoming One
Still Becoming One
When Is It Time to Walk Away? I Married the Wrong Person part 2
We examine the complexities of troubled marriages, challenging the idea that couples should "stick it out no matter what" while offering guidance on when to fight for your relationship and when boundaries might be necessary.
• Understanding the difference between pursuing happiness versus finding fulfillment and contentment in marriage
• Why staying together "just for the kids" often creates more trauma than healing
• How to approach your spouse about relationship struggles without blame or shame
• Setting healthy boundaries when your partner refuses to work on the relationship
• Recognizing when safety concerns might necessitate separation
• Moving beyond the "did I marry the wrong person?" question to deeper relationship insights
• Finding the courage to work through brokenness together for stronger connection
We'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic or any of our episodes. Contact us with your questions or topic suggestions at help@stillbecomingone.com or text us through the number in our show notes.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast. We are Brad and Kate.
Speaker 2:In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
Speaker 1:Now as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches. We help couples to regain hope and joy.
Speaker 2:We invite you to journey with us, as we are still becoming one.
Speaker 1:Let's start the conversation.
Speaker 3:Hello everyone, Welcome back to Still Becoming One.
Speaker 2:Yeah, welcome back. It's another evening podcast, who knows what will happen.
Speaker 3:It is, that's right. Yes, who knows?
Speaker 2:Yes, it was a lovely day here, though, even though it wasn't sunny we got to have fun last week with our guest, Adam Young.
Speaker 3:We had a lot of fun talking with Adam.
Speaker 2:Really nice to chat with him and hear his thoughts on his new book. We suggest everyone read it if you want to know more about story work. It's a really good book that gives you like a really good framework, but also like a lot of meat to go with it.
Speaker 3:So and we get asked to do podcast guest podcasts with a lot of people who write books. It's one of those things people do and sometimes we say yes and and we're like, yeah, this book could be good. And sometimes we don't say yes. But it is rare that we say yes and we think y'all should read this book for everybody. But I think Adam's is a good one in that category.
Speaker 2:That's a good point. We had gotten to a point with One Flesh Marriage which this has been a while now where people would just not even ask, they would just send us books to review and we'd be like what are we supposed to do with this? Some of them were so, not even in our genre, and we were just like thanks for the free book. But it's really cool to talk to someone who is working with people daily on one of the things we're very passionate about, so it was really cool, yeah, so yeah, so, well, we're excited to be kind of coming back to a topic a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't know how many weeks ago, it probably doesn't really matter, but we love hearing from our listeners we do, and sometimes we realize we may have not really talked about the topic to its fullness. We might have missed some really important things. I mean, obviously, in the half hour 45 minutes that we do a podcast, we can't cover everything. However, one of our viewers brought up some really good points about our podcast on I married the wrong person and so we would kind of throw them around and decided we needed to do a follow up. So this is I married the wrong person.
Speaker 2:Part two Part two.
Speaker 3:Part two. So, yeah, I think it's actually. We had had really good conversation on it because really the first podcast came out of working with several people who were ready to throw in the towel because they were unhappy. And they were like is doing the work necessary? Is doing the work going to be helpful? I think I might have just married the wrong person Isn't the better thing just to go and find somebody different who? I match with better and so that was really the genesis of the conversation the first time.
Speaker 2:Right, right, the genesis. Wow, well, the start, yeah, the start of it.
Speaker 3:And I think that really what came out was this churchy idea that says you should stay married no matter what.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's yes. I think that was what was perceived by our listener and it was like stick it out, no matter what, at the cost of everything, at the cost of your kids, you know, experiencing all kinds of things. You experience in all kinds of things, and and this person we dialogued with a little bit and and it was like, yes, I want to hear some of that because we need to challenge those things.
Speaker 3:We do, and I recently just heard Michelle Obama in an interview about marriage and she said that she took Barack to marriage counseling expecting him to be fixed and was surprised when the marriage counselor says you've got stuff to work on. I think that's part of what we were talking to. Is this idea of do I just fix my spouse and everything's going to be okay, of do I just fix my spouse?
Speaker 3:and everything's going to be okay, right. And then she went on and said you know, I think I want couples to recognize that marriage takes work, that if you end up having been married 50 years and you were happy for 40 of them, that you're doing really well, but that means you probably had 10 hard years in there. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think that has a lot of wisdom, because sometimes we get into the hard year or hard years and go. What the heck are we doing? I need to give up and I'm not trying to say that anyone who gets divorced is just giving up, but I do think there is that place in our kind of idea right now that says if I'm not happy, then I just need to go find the person who's going to make me happy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one has the happiness thing. I mean, I feel like we could do a whole podcast on that, which we say all the time, but I feel like chasing happiness is not what we're talking about here, because, I mean, I just want to be clear. I feel like chasing happiness is always going to lead you to needing to chase something else. Right, we're not. Yes, do I want you to be happy in your marriage?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, but it's more about fulfillment and growing and learning to work together with each other's stories, with each other, who you are, and I just think the happiness bus is always going to lead you to the next destination and the next destination. So I think it's more like how do I find contentment, peace, joy, like all of the things that you want to find in a relationship, not just happiness, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I agree and I don't think we fully. I mean, this is just one of the really basic things is we don't fully understand how much we interrupt our own happiness. Right, happiness is not just being hedonistic and doing whatever I want and just out for me and having fun Like true happiness actually does come with sacrifice and work and being known to each other and emotional highs and emotional lows. That creates the happiness. So I don't think it's as easy. As I'm not happy, I need out. I also don't want to oversimplify. I don't think anyone gets divorced just because it's like I had a bad week and I'm unhappy.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I'm happy. It's like, oh, I had a bad week, right and I'm unhappy, yeah, and I'm happy, yeah, and I, yeah, I think that, I think that what you said is very true and so, yeah, so I think it's, it's not that. But then what do we do with this quandary that our listener brought up, which was really good of like, okay, so like the whole, stick it out like you didn't marry the wrong person, kind of thing, right, like you can't really so we're not going to just chalk it up that they're the wrong personality, so now you can't ever have a happy marriage, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And Brad and I have seen a lot of this. When it's really going poorly, One person is really not up for whatever reason I mean, we've seen all the reasons you can imagine but not willing to meet the other spouse and work. And so what does that mean? What do we do with that?
Speaker 3:What do we do with that that? What does that mean? What do we do with that? What do we do with that? Look, I think there's a whole faith discussion on divorce and all that kind of stuff that I think you need to if faith is important to you. I think going and talking to your pastors or going and talking to people that you respect in your faith and going, okay, what do we believe? God really says, boiling it all down. I think it is. God really wants us to work on the relationship, but he does not condone abusing people.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right and I think it's actually very clear. There are some interesting exceptions written into Scripture by Christians that weren't there in the culture to provide for women, because they did want to make sure that they were not being abused. So I think that is important to say that Christians in early Christianity went out of the way to make sure that women were protected in marriage.
Speaker 3:And that should continue, Right. So this is not a place of just okay. You signed up for it now, so anything goes, you just have to deal with it because God hates divorce. That's just dumb. So we need to say that.
Speaker 2:Right like, that's just dumb, right like, so we need to say that, right well, and I think turn it around like we're talking about a cultural time where women were just more oppressed, had very few rights, like, but we can turn that into either spouse now correct, because we live in a world that is much different, although I still we could yeah, we could go on about that. I still believe that women do not have equal rights in lots of ways, however, so neither spouse should be treated in a way that is harmful, unkind, constantly right, and it gets really like well, when is too much, too much? And I think that becomes the real question and what brad and I were kind of grappling with as we were talking more about this of like well, what trauma becomes the worst trauma?
Speaker 3:which becomes the problem, well, and I want to just address this thing that happens all the time and we see it of just people going well, I'm going to stay together for the kids while the kids are in the house, because they need us and I don't really know what else we would do.
Speaker 3:It's too expensive anyway, so we'll just deal with it and kind of live as roommates and cope for the next couple years and then, once the kids are out of the house, then we'll think about divorce.
Speaker 3:The big problem that I've seen with that is one you're setting a horrible example of what marriage is supposed to be. Throughout that whole time that you're just kind of coexisting and that's not healthy for your kids. But two, and I think even more significant, is just at the place where they are launching and they are building lifelong relationships themselves, often in that process of just starting dating significantly or potentially getting married themselves, the relationship that they've looked to as stability for their whole life ends. So that ending right at the developmental place where they're starting their own lifelong relationships is a huge challenge to a new couple, to a new dating person. For somebody's opinion about marriage, All these things that are getting transmitted to young adult is really, really unhealthy. So all that saying that if you're sitting there going, we're just going to wait till the kids are out of the house, that's a terrible time to do it.
Speaker 2:It's a terrible idea. Like, okay, I'm just going to be a little, which I realize these decisions are more intricate than I'm making it but either decide, like stop having a foot in each space. Like either decide to work towards your marriage or not, because that kind of thing isn't helping your kids get it, even though they may not be able to give words to it, even as a teenager or young adult, they get. Things aren't good like. I grew up in a family where you know there's also the deficit of, like a mom staying home, not having the amount of of money that a dad might, in the situation of my family, and really my parents lived practically divorced, even though they weren't, and so you get this. Wouldn't it just be better?
Speaker 2:But there's so much that goes into that and I'm not dishonoring those people who find themselves stuck there. I do honor it. But I also know as a kid I knew it wasn't good, and as a teenager and as a young like, I knew it wasn't good. And as a teenager and as a young adult I knew it wasn't good. And so my thought as a kid who experienced that is like pick one and if you find yourself stuck, then figure out how to try and work on it, but I do honor. That takes two people being willing to do so.
Speaker 3:So you're saying pick on it, meaning either work on it or get divorced. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I very much agree and I think we support people always kind of going to their partner. Now here's the challenge Most of the time people go to their partner and say you need to fix this or you need to get things better, and kind of point the finger You're doing X, y, z and so you need to change that or you're not doing X Y Z, or you're not doing X Y Z right and that never really works right, that kind of guilt and shame idea, and even you know behavior.
Speaker 2:You're the problem.
Speaker 3:But even the behavior change thing of like you don't help me enough around the house, or we don't have sex enough, or whatever. The thing is that you're just pointing at. That is the tip of the iceberg and that's not the real issue. Right, like so we do say all the time, like, go to a partner and say I want us to rediscover the things that made us want to get married in the first place. I want to go back to that first love. I want to get back to enjoying each other and having fun together. I want to renew our passion for life and for each other again, and I know I'm part of it. That's the important part is, I know I'm part of this and so fix it.
Speaker 2:I think you can also go to your spouse and say I want it to be better. I have no clue how to get there. I know I'm part of the issue and that also be okay. Like your flowery words sound great, but I think a lot of times people are just in the depths of despair and have no clue, and a lot of times they've gotten to a space, or allowed themselves to get to a space, where they don't really like their spouse anymore. Correct so. But I feel like it can be honest to say but I don't know how we'll get there, but I'm willing to do the work and I'd like to try is at least a start, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And I will say if you hear your spouse saying those kind of words, it is super important that we listen to them and we go oh yeah, I want to be a part of that too and I want to work on things and meet them there, because that's just step. One is saying let's work on something. If you are saying that and you're saying we and you're trying to figure out how you together can get to change, and your partner is not meeting you there, refuses to for one reason or another, then it is time to put up some boundaries.
Speaker 2:And you say boundaries, what does that mean? I mean, obviously it's different for a couple.
Speaker 3:Sure it is, you can't prescribe one set of boundaries.
Speaker 2:Here's the boundary that you say right.
Speaker 3:It is saying in essence, I really want this. I want us to go to this coaching together or this counseling together. I want us to work on this together. I want us to do this. So you outline the ways that you want to engage the person and you say this is really important to me. Why, right? And then you say you know, if you can't meet me there, then I'm going to take steps in the other direction meet me there, then I'm going to take steps in the other direction.
Speaker 3:Now, eventually, that might mean you know what we're going to live separated for a time, or we're actually going to separate for a time. It might mean saying you know something where there is a I'm not doing X because we're not moving towards each other. So I know we came like this is the kind of polar opposite of where we were on, like just did I choose the wrong person Right. But this is actually really important to say, because I don't think it's about choosing the wrong person Right. How many people do we know who felt like their first marriage ended because they chose the wrong person? Then they ended that marriage, they went out back in the dating field and they picked the same freaking person again. It may be in a different body or a different, little bit different style in a different body.
Speaker 3:Well, okay, they didn't actually pick the actual same person again.
Speaker 2:They, they pick but we do know people. That's happened too, but we won't get. That's a whole nother thing. Um, but yeah I, there are reasons we pick who we pick, and there's more to be learned there than going out and finding someone different.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And to realize not only is that something to learn about ourselves, but it also can be a beautiful process of this space, something like Brad and I being the safest space that you have. And and I mean you guys know our story. If you've been listening to our podcast or reading our blog from a million years ago, like you know that we went through some really crazy stuff and navigated it and, you know, became each other's safe space. It doesn't always just happen because you want it to correct, because you have good thoughts and you're like, oh, I really love this person.
Speaker 2:Sure, in the beginning, that's how most people enter marriage not all, but most correct and I I do think also there's this space of like, the question of trauma and which trauma is worse. And when you have a volatile marriage and volatile doesn't always mean it has to be loud and in people's faces but when it's harming both the husband and the wife and the kids that are around, but when it's harming both the husband and the wife and the kids that are around, if there is family, it does become a question of like okay, which trauma is causing the most trauma?
Speaker 3:at this, point, absolutely, absolutely, and I sincerely believe that the anger, the blowups, the things that we end up going to, or that nobody talks to each other for days on end Frozen.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, Mom and dad sit at the table, but we'll talk to you but not to each other, like it doesn't always have to look like anger.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:You can look like a lot of interesting things.
Speaker 3:And you know, just on this side note, like I've said this often, I do not believe that, hey, we should have a whole huge argument in front of your kids, but arguments do sometimes happen in front of your kids. And that is an opportunity to actually show them that repair happens too right.
Speaker 3:So if an argument starts in front of your kids, it's not like this is horrendous and you're scarring them for life. You're actually teaching them that hey, adults, married adults, disagree at times and we're going to be okay, and let them see that repair happens. That is a huge, healthy lesson. The anger that you're talking about is so much different than that.
Speaker 2:Right and we want to acknowledge there are parts where boundaries need to come in place I think that's the way we would say it when it's become unhealthy or toxic to a point where one or more people are not working on themselves. It's really hard to give you a definition Correct, because it looks so different, it's so different for each one, for every couple.
Speaker 3:But basically, whenever I've done this with a person who is trying to get change to happen in their marriage, what I've recommended is the visual of yes, you're putting up a wall and you want to be very clear about what's outside of that wall, what's inside that wall, what's okay still and what's not okay. So, where the wall goes. But equally important to communicate is where's the gate, what is the way that they can engage, change right, like be very specific and saying I, you know, until you're to this place of saying absolutely not, I'm done, you know, engaging it as a way of saying this is the path in order to move forward. I need you to stop talking to that other person and I need us to go to counseling together. I will schedule a time as soon as you tell me that you're willing to do that. Right, so you're putting up the boundary of I want no engagement with this other person, you know, and this is the path forward. Right, and trying to be clear where those boundaries are.
Speaker 2:And just to be clear, we're also not just saying this is only in situations where you're obviously bringing someone else into your marriage in a way that's totally inappropriate, but it can happen over not having those issues.
Speaker 2:And I think, of course, biblically, many people feel like if that happens, they know what the Bible says and so then they know what is available to them. But I think actually, the situations that are harder when that's not happening. You know, and you said in the beginning, which I wanted to kind of come back around to like sit with your pastor, which I wanted to kind of come back around to like sit with your pastor, do so. But I would also caveat it with, like, if you start hearing something that says just put up with it, just give grace, that's concerning right, and I'm not saying grace isn't a real thing. We wouldn't. You know, obviously, brad, and I believe you wouldn't be here without it Grace is not being a doormat and allowing someone to do not okay things. So like, just know, if you have this check in your spirit where your pastor's saying something and encouraging something that you're not sure is really the way it should be, like, seek out other people, get other opinions, it's okay to do so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I 100% agree, and I think all too often women specifically have been told by pastors you just have to deal with badly behaving men and that's crappy.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes as well, men are told that. I do realize and want to acknowledge. I feel like it's more women that are told that, but I don't want to make it sound like there's never been a husband.
Speaker 3:That's been told to put up with it or whatever. No, it's there.
Speaker 2:Those aren't the right conversations to be having. If you're going and sharing where you're at and things are really bad and boundaries are needed, and a pastor is saying, just put up with it, that's a red flag.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No matter who is expressing it.
Speaker 3:I haven't seen the statistics on this for a while. I could look them back up. But I know in the past I saw statistics on what happens if a wife is diagnosed with a serious mental illness that the divorce rates are very high in the nineties percent high Interesting when, if a husband is diagnosed with a serious mental illness, divorce rates are actually lower than normal. Okay, right, no, but I know, but this is, this is. This is the culture that we still live in.
Speaker 3:Right, this is, this is the culture, culture that we still live, in right, so it. It is this place that it isn't directly fair. Yeah, no, but I I also want to say in that, like it is okay to have boundaries and go, this kind of behavior is not okay. Alcoholism, you know? Mental health that's not being treated. Somebody's not getting help, right like that. That's not being treated. Somebody who's not getting help right Like that's.
Speaker 3:that's not okay. You don't have to live with that. Um, you know, there's certainly other things that fall in this category that say, hey, this is a problem. My encouragement is to get past the top of the iceberg. Right, because it's not about we never spend any time together. It is more about some of these other deeper things, right, and the reality is, if you're at this place of we never spend any time together, that is a relationship thing, that's a couple thing, because spending time together means both of you have to be pursuing that in a positive way. Right, because there are plenty of times I've seen people who say you never spend time with me, but they are prickly, they're a cactus. What's wrong with that? So why do you want to spend time with a cactus? Right? Like, so like. We do have to look at both sides of these things, and that's why so many of these things are relationship driven, and we truly believe that if a couple comes going, we want to change, we want to grow. There are so many things we can overcome.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's what we were trying to express in our last one. I think this is more about. Sometimes it's time to say we need to change.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's okay.
Speaker 2:And it's okay to say that to your spouse in a kind way. And if you're not met with wanting to do that as well, that cannot be that way forever. No, if you're not met with wanting to do that as well, there there's like that. That cannot be that way forever, no, like. And I would say that to the spouses out there who just, for whatever reason and I do have compassion, I do believe it's story related where you, you don't want to engage, you don't want to work on anything, you're afraid to whatever is behind it I just want to say like this this is a perfect, beautiful opportunity in a safe space to figure some of this out, and I get that it doesn't feel safe, but the reality is, if you continue on in other relationships like this, it's still gonna look like this yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's that's what we're really trying to say with the whole. Did I marry the wrong person? Well, the reality is it's going to happen again. If you seek out other relationships, what I love to see is couples engaging in that, because it's actually a really beautiful process and beautiful thing, especially when people have history right. You know you can say I'll do the next relationship better, and that's great, but why not do this relationship better? Right, right, be. I get it. It takes a brave person to do that, but I believe that you can, and that's obviously again in a situation where everyone is safe.
Speaker 3:It's safe. But I do believe and I see it all the time that when couples work through their broken places together, they end up stronger. On the other side when admitting defeat, on the other side where admitting defeat saying we're done.
Speaker 3:Moving on has a cost to everybody involved. So we just take that very seriously and say, hey, is there things that two people can do to come together and work through the broken places? Because we all have those wounds, we all have that wounded heart and we need to come to places of healing together and vulnerability together, and if we can get there, I think we can actually see a tremendous strength on the other side.
Speaker 2:However, if that isn't possible, it's also understandable. You know that if working through that is not safe anymore, not safe for the kids, like that kind of thing is just putting a whole ton of trauma in your lives. We also understand that boundaries need to be put up and divorce is a boundary. I mean, hopefully you don't start with divorce, because if that that shows that we haven't actually had those conversations previously, if we go right to divorce, um, but being able to say, hey, if, if you're not going to work on this, then we're going to move towards other things and seeing how that plays out.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And then moving forward from there.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 2:I agree? Well, of course you do, because you're talking to me.
Speaker 3:So I think that was a really good maybe filler of what we missed the first go around.
Speaker 2:I hope so. Yeah, cause we didn't.
Speaker 3:we did not mean to just leave it so short sighted but and we don't mean to imply that you've got to stick it out no matter what and be miserable and that somehow that's a better thing than getting divorced it's not. That's not at all.
Speaker 2:Right. So the divorce isn't always necessarily the better either.
Speaker 3:It really is in, you know it's just so complicated and so yes, but we did not mean to make it sound so blanket so here's the thing we actually would love to hear from you on this topic or any of our topics. If you're listening and you go, man, man, I disagree with that.
Speaker 2:This is actually one of the things Contact Brad. He loves to talk about disagreements. It's his favorite.
Speaker 3:It's probably one of the things that I think is most challenging between podcasting and when we used to blog. When we used to blog, there was a very immediate comment section. We'd have a long discussions in the comments and um podcasts.
Speaker 3:Don't really have that yeah but we do have people send us questions. Um, there is a number there. You can text us questions. We cannot reply to those texts, but we do listen to them and or read them, and then sometimes we'll make a podcast about it. Or you can email us at help at stillbecomingone all spelled out dot com, and we would love to hear from you and hear where you push back and if you've got questions for us. If you're like man, I'd love you to tackle this topic. If you'd love to argue with us on how we said something, I'd love to hear it, and we might just do it in a future episode.
Speaker 2:Because we like that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. We always want to hear your ideas. So thanks so much. We are so happy that we got to keep talking about some of this and we have some really great ideas for episodes coming up, and I know we're gonna tackle a lot of really important relationship and marriage things in the next several weeks, so yeah great. Well, until next time, I'm brad aldrich and I'm kate aldrich.
Speaker 2:Be kind and take care of each other.
Speaker 1:Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich Ministries. For more information about Brad and Kate's coaching ministry courses and speaking opportunities, you can find us at aldrichministriescom For podcast show notes and links to resources in all of our social media. Be sure to visit us at stillbecomingonecom and don't forget to like this episode wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to follow us to continue your journey on Still Becoming One.