Still Becoming One
Still Becoming One
Trauma Whisperers: The Art of Healing Together
Brad and Kate explore how our personal stories and childhood experiences shape our marriage relationships in profound ways. Story work provides couples with a framework to understand recurring conflicts and create healthier patterns of interaction.
We invite you to start your own story exploration and join us next week as we continue our series on story work and its impact on marriage.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast. We are Brad and Kate.
Speaker 2:In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
Speaker 1:Now as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches. We help couples to regain hope and joy.
Speaker 2:We invite you to journey with us, as we are still becoming one.
Speaker 1:Let's start the conversation.
Speaker 3:Hello everyone, Welcome back to Still Becoming One.
Speaker 2:Yeah, welcome back.
Speaker 3:This is fun.
Speaker 2:That's what I was thinking too.
Speaker 3:So Kate and I I hope it doesn't sound too much different on the podcast We'll, we'll see.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was going to say it doesn't sound different to me, but that doesn't mean it won't.
Speaker 3:Kind of rearranged and um set up a little bit differently, so now we can actually do these conversations looking at each other. That's kind of fun.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 3:And we are hoping that we can do some video recording and at least do some snippets of what we're putting in the podcast that we can use for social media and other things like that, and we'll see where all that goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're currently looking, but we look at each other when we do the podcast anyways. I just have to look sideways. Yep, so now we're actually facing each other. It's going to be exciting it will.
Speaker 3:It will, of course.
Speaker 2:No, I always like looking at you, it's not a problem oh, me either I just think this could be like danger zone where we just like you know, have our conversations that everybody thinks are amazing.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly Right. It's maybe a little easier to get into things this way.
Speaker 2:Probably, I would think so, that's right. But yeah, we're going to, we're toying with it, We'll see how it works out. Just fair warning, if should, we do the videos. I'm not dressing up every Monday.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:I told Brad that as soon as, as soon as he was like, yeah, this would be a fun idea.
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, they're all gonna get the monday morning me I know, I totally understand and I think that's who we really are. And, yes, we can maybe have some videos where we, you know, don't do it on a monday morning, but you know there are other times some monday mornings I get up, get ready right, exactly monday mornings less.
Speaker 2:But you know I have been bemoaning this for years. You actually were like sad when you decided to shave your head because you know you're like, okay, I'm losing too much hair. I would love to have a shaved head because then I could get up every morning and look fantastic without having to do anything.
Speaker 3:Yes, that is an advantage.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 3:I just kind of brush the beard down and then that's about it. Brush the beard, so it's pretty easy. Yes, I do admit it takes me a little while to shave it every couple of days, but that's about it.
Speaker 2:I do admit it takes me a little while to shave it every couple of days, but that's about it. I'll never forget the time that you were like I. I had like the epiphany. I was like do you cause I usually handle buying like the shower items and everything. I'm like, do you need more shampoo? And you're like, for what? I was like oh, I guess you don't. Okay, you're like I can just use regular soap on my head now, because it's not hair anymore.
Speaker 3:Nope.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, just know you'll see the real us, which is kind of us, anyways it is, I don't know I know, and that's kind of what I was thinking anyway, our podcast is really us having conversations anymore.
Speaker 3:Is really us having conversations anymore? And you know, kind of thinking through a lot of the conversations that we used to get into over dinner or something like that, and we'd be like, oh you know, we should have this conversation on the podcast.
Speaker 2:There you go, so now dinner is just us.
Speaker 3:I know it's been interesting. Yeah, we told everyone a couple of weeks ago that we were kind of jumped into empty nest really quickly. So, yeah, how would you say that's been going? What's it been like?
Speaker 2:and say I don't know if we said this on air before, but I was a little apprehensive, because I enjoy spending all of my time with you. Never really had a problem with that, and you do too, but you also. We're both introverts, but your introvertedness needs just time for you, which is totally fine. And so I was a little worried that I was going to suck up that time you are.
Speaker 3:I am, it's just right on the line.
Speaker 2:Correct. So you need the best of both worlds, right.
Speaker 3:Exactly, I am still an extrovert that needs some of that social and needs some of that time. It's just yeah, there are times that I'm like, okay, I need a little bit of me time and that's one of my self-care things that I've learned over the years, like I never thought that, as you know, a younger person, Needing me time. Yeah, that wasn't really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it plays into what we're talking about today Story. We talk about that a lot because we think it's super important, but I yeah, part of my story is that I enjoy being around the people that I trust. It's not like I want to be around lots of random people, but you're one of those people and so.
Speaker 3:But I enjoy being around you as well. I'm not worried about that side of things. I enjoy being around you as well. He says as well, I'm not worried about that side of things. I think the thing that you're specifically talking about is more my ADHD.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't function with me around you tend to like. Verbal processing.
Speaker 3:Right verbal process, the work that you're doing or the things that you're seeing or the kind of things, and I can't get anything done while that happens.
Speaker 2:It's my own ADHD, but it functions differently in me.
Speaker 3:So yeah, so yeah, that would be. The challenge is that I need the space in order to get work done, that I need this space in order to get work done, but social time like downtime. I'm good with hanging out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's been fine. I think we're figuring things out. I think we were super excited for this time, but I think I am realizing how much of that, for me, was met with managing lack of better term, their schedules right. I got that interaction believe it or not, that I was necessarily looking for it from our kids, and so it's just different.
Speaker 3:Um, I think there is a huge time shift in some of that right. Like you, you know, and we've said on the podcast before, we've had all different types of arrangements and work levels and all that kind of stuff in our, in our married life. But for the last 10 years you've chosen to work more part-time.
Speaker 2:I think we chose that too. I would say it was a decision together.
Speaker 3:Correct, it was an us decision, but you were a part of that decision for sure.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like me telling you oh gosh, no, that's not us either.
Speaker 3:But you've chosen to work 20-ish hours a week, knowing that there's another 30-plus hours a week that you were doing kid stuff, home stuff, like those kind of things.
Speaker 2:So you were definitely working very for full time, just right, some of that was yeah, running kids around and all the and connecting with them, checking in on them the two that we had at home at the time, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Now that that's less, it's not gone by any means. We still have kid time, you know, it's just less.
Speaker 2:It's mainly on the phone too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, correct.
Speaker 2:Our daughter, who's only like an hour and a half away, our middle daughter for college. She popped home this weekend, which was amazing and fun, but yeah, it's just. It's such a strange time. Someone recently told us we're not empty nesters because they're in college, but it does. And they'll come back and they will, but it still feels that way the majority of the time.
Speaker 3:I don't know in this, in our generation of parents, how you ever get to empty nest in in that reality, because the delayed like delayed figuring out where kids go long term it's so difficult because of housing prices and job issues, and you know, it's just not unusual for kids mid or late 20s to need a place to land for a little while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:Man, I can't imagine waiting till empty nest for that hurdle to be completely done. Who knows when that would ever be.
Speaker 2:And that's why we're taking it now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Because it may change again.
Speaker 3:So one of the things that we're doing in our empty nest, although we kind of decided to do this even before. I was going to say it just happened to work out that way, yeah is both of us are signed up to take the next level of the narrative therapy, trauma care um. From dan allender the allender center yep, and so that is a intensive, what? Six month commitment. I think it's longer than that, isn't it something like that? Because we start in and so that is a intensive, what six-month commitment.
Speaker 2:I think it's longer than that, isn't it? Yeah, something like that, because we start in October and end in March.
Speaker 3:March yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, so yeah, maybe Six months, maybe.
Speaker 3:So we are jumping into that course and looking forward to it. Both of us took the NFTC1 level. Now what two years ago, a little over two years ago?
Speaker 2:No, I think it's longer than that it's three.
Speaker 3:It'd be three years ago.
Speaker 2:I was going to say because my dad passed away right before your mom passed away as we were ending.
Speaker 2:Right, and I'm thinking yeah, that was three years ago, yeah because I think yeah, I think so so thinking on air, I don't know guys that's okay but it does seem, I think it's longer than that, so yeah, what are you hoping to get out of nftc2? Oh, um, I mean learning more. I think I've, as I've understood, nftc2. There's a lot of like how your own story influences how you engage other people's stories, which is I get it completely true.
Speaker 2:So I think there's gonna be um, there's gonna be a lot of that which I'm I think I need to learn more about and be more, um, cognizant of that. So that's a good thing, I don't know, I think, just learning more about, well, as we're reading the book about the body and how it all impacts, like I think there's going to be a focus on that, of course. Well, it's trauma care.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Focus trauma care, so definitely anticipate that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know, so definitely anticipate that. I mean this is all a part of the category of work out there that they call trauma-informed care, right, and trying to make sure that we know what we're doing in our coaching and our counseling that does respect and honor the trauma work that people need as they're going through often really hard things.
Speaker 3:And that's some of why we decided we wanted to talk about story work today, and you know, probably do a little bit of series of what is story work, what do we mean by those terms and how do we use story to help couples actually grow in their relationship? Because still, while we do, now have people coming to us and going oh wait, you do story work.
Speaker 3:I want that Right Like so you do have some of that, but I would say the bulk of our clients still are going. I'm struggling in my relationship. How do you help me Right and in their marriage. Yeah, and so then we're kind of going okay, let's talk about the relationship, let's talk about you know, all of those kinds of things, but then let's also get into your story. Right, right, yeah Well yeah.
Speaker 2:And what does?
Speaker 3:that even mean.
Speaker 2:I think that's kind of our niche that make us a little different than a lot of other people Although there are people out there you can get who focus on this in marriage, but I think it's a pretty limited number.
Speaker 3:Individuals. I think there's a lot, a lot of people are doing this work in individual. There's only a few. Steve and Lisa Call that we had on the show a couple of weeks ago is one of them.
Speaker 2:And Dan and Becky, because they sometimes do theirs together right, Correct the marriage retreats or whatever, for sure.
Speaker 3:But I don't know that many who are I mean obviously we have Barbara Case on our staff and she and her husband are doing some of that as well. So we've kind of tried to seek out the people who are doing story work for marriages, because I think it's really beneficial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And we keep seeing it in everyday arguments right, that's something that people bring to our sessions all the time right. We sit down with people and they go. Oh, we just had this big argument and want to talk about what happened and why this person got upset when they came home or whatever it was, and it's just so easy to see people's story popping in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, just listening to that, the one thing I would encourage people who are listening is, if you're a married couple, that if one of you is doing story work, I would encourage the other one to take a brave step and do it as well. Because sometimes I do think there is a place, and it's great if we have spouses separately that they can just dive right into their story and not be worried so much about the dynamics between the two of them. Yet but I know that's hard because usually people come to us in a tough space. But I think it's because our stories are always rubbing up against each other, bumping up against each other. Whatever analogy you want to use, you have to understand what's at play for both. Yeah Right, helping one spouse understand what's happening for them is great and that can drastically change things, but it can't completely if someone is still in their own pattern that they don't understand.
Speaker 3:Correct. So before we get too far ahead of ourselves, let's maybe define what does story work, even mean?
Speaker 2:Okay, do you want me to define it?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 3:Because you're good at it. I've heard you say this and I think it's pretty good.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm glad. I'm glad. I just don't know what I'm about to say. So I'm glad that you think whatever I'm about to say is going to be amazing. I think StoryWorker is a journey into your own story, which is your background, your family, your community, your everything that has shaped you before. Adolescence kind of solidifies our brains and how we have interpreted the world. There's lots of pieces to it, but that's how we continue your story. Your childhood, your teenage, hood, like that is the lens you are doing life with. Yeah Right, and story for me answers the questions of why do I do what I do, which often can be very frustrating. Why do I do that? Why do I keep doing it? Why can't I stop doing it?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Why can't I choose something different? Um story work enables us to dive into those things and actually have some answers and then have the ability to move towards healing or freedom from those things.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I think that's exactly right. It is trying to explain the why am I upset about that? Why am I hurt by that? Why am I getting angry right now? Why am I yelling when I don't want to? Why am I doing X? So it's trying to understand some of those things.
Speaker 3:And it's doing it in a way that is looking at and informed on are trauma. Now I'm going to guess most people like myself feel like, oh well, I guess this doesn't apply for me because I didn't have any big, huge traumas when I was growing up. Nobody died, there was no shooting that happened. There was know. I didn't live through 9-11, you know those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:All the things that the world would describe and honor as trauma.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and those are huge, significant, big traumas, right, and every once in a while we get clients who have had those experiences think something horrific that happened, that literally anyone hearing this story would go, oh my goodness, that's a trauma, and I think those are obviously really big and important and we can honor how hard that is. The challenge, I think, is how often other things become, or were, a trauma for us because, we did not have the cognitive ability or the relationship ability to process them at the time. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so things that were not big T traumas where we were put in situations where we didn't know what to do, where we felt overwhelmed and we just didn't have the support that we needed to get through that situation became stuck points. Yeah. And all of us have them. Right. Absolutely stuck points, yeah, and all of us have them right.
Speaker 2:absolutely every one of us have those moments that really, you know, keep us, yeah, stuck well, and we've heard dan allender say several times over our training and the book we're just reading for nftc2. Um, hillary mcide said I think that's her name said the same thing of like little T traumas, those things that we all experience as average people where our parents were maybe not in tune, or a teacher or a friend at school like right. All of these things there are little T traumas, but they often add up and they are harder for us to honor than the ones that the world says are horrible.
Speaker 2:Right, understandably so, but the reality is we need to understand how that impacted you as an individual and what were your strategies coming out of that? Or the repeated little T traumas. So I think it's huge and it's also really hard to honor it.
Speaker 3:give it the voice that it needs and be able to, like, move in a positive place with that and I think it's interesting, right, this is not necessarily every time you are in a hard situation. I have like and I've searched some of my memory of this like I remember being bullied as a young boy and being in those kind of really overwhelming situations, and there's a couple of fuzzy ones that I can kind of remember.
Speaker 3:But, it's more this generalized feeling of not knowing what to do and those kind of things. And so in many ways those I'm not saying they were good, those were hard memories for me.
Speaker 3:And they certainly laid the groundwork for other traumas. But for me and I really just mean this, for me those were less the traumas than some of the other things that happened, and I can tell by how my brain has stored the memories. I can go back to third grade and remember, you know, some of the teasing and some of those kinds of things, but it's not vivid. It's there. I know what they called me. I know like those kinds of things, but it's not vivid for me. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Where story work often goes into those moments that are frozen memories. Right, it's the vivid picture of something happening, it's the oh my gosh. I remember this in so much detail. I have no idea why. Kind of moment.
Speaker 2:Although some people I hear that, but remember it's still, although some people. I hear that, but remember it's still remember it vividly, but it's just snapshots. Yeah right, it's not like I remember, start to finish all the way, because that's what people somehow think they should.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I find, and that's just not how our memory works we wouldn't be able to survive, remembered everything no, no, no from the moment it started to the moment it ended no, the I've heard it explained that, like when we get into that fight or flight mode, that one of the things that happens to us is our mind, our brain, is accessing more information. So it acts like a slow-mo video because, if you want to do a slow-mo video.
Speaker 3:you actually increase the frame rate right, like you make it go faster. So then when you play it back at normal speed, it is slow-mo. That's kind of what's happening in our brain in a trauma it's taking in more information.
Speaker 4:So then afterwards, we don't know what to do with all of that information.
Speaker 3:Our brain doesn't know what to do with that information, and so then afterwards, we don't know what to do with all of that information. Our brain doesn't know what to do with that information, and so it often gets stuck.
Speaker 2:Right, and it often as a young child, teenager tries to figure out okay. So this is a situation I'm in regularly which can absolutely happen with bullying or at home, and your little mind and your little body says okay, if I do this, that helps me right, right, and it could be something right a strategy.
Speaker 2:It could be something that helps you to be seen with your family, helps you to not cause tension. Like strategies are just things you come up with to survive the best you can in your family situation, and sometimes it's also coping strategies.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Right, that's what happens and that's why it's frozen and we're kind of stuck, like when we talked a lot or didn't talk at all or went around and made sure we had all our homework done or, you know, did all kinds of things in order to gain attention. We worked really hard to be the best on the soccer field. We worked, you know, in so many different avenues. We worked to fix things that we didn't know what we were doing or, as dan allender says, to restore peace to our lives.
Speaker 2:The problem is they're broken like they're not real restoration right it's temporary. Oftentimes it ends up hurting us or someone else. Words, you know, like anger, but those are not the only ones, right, so yeah?
Speaker 3:And you know we were talking about introvert extrovert earlier, like the, and this is just one of those interesting things. I am an extrovert.
Speaker 2:I I know I'm an extrovert, but as I've grown, I said we were both introverts, though I know you did.
Speaker 3:But I'm an extrovert. But as I've grown older I've recognized and gotten closer to my introverted side, like there's places of self-care in being alone and I've learned to grow in that. But as we're talking about trauma stuff, I grew up in a family of four that three of them were pretty far on the introverted scale and here I am, the extrovert kind of like, bouncing around a little bit and wanting to be social and wanting to do things, wanting to be social and wanting to do things and like that wasn't what was normal in my household, and so like I think I learned the strategy of spending a lot of time by myself, which is why it took me so long to come back to that being healthy.
Speaker 2:Hmm, yeah.
Speaker 3:Because for a long time it wasn't.
Speaker 2:So you would mainly consider yourself an extrovert.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, I mean, if I look at the true definition of introvert and extrovert. Introvert is that I gain energy by being by myself and I spend energy when I'm social Right. Extrovert is the reverse I'm gaining energy when I'm with other people and I'm spending that energy when I'm by myself.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 3:So it's not even what I like or dislike. It's where you get energized.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I absolutely get energized from being with my clients, being with people, being in groups, being like I had my. I'm doing a new group this season and had a first meeting with them and I had a bunch of guys and it's two hours eight to 10 on my time zone, cause some people aren't in the same time zone, so it ends at 10 o'clock at night and I'm buzzing, you know like, just because that filled my battery and in a really good way. I had lots of energy, but it's then. It's like okay, I got to go to bed soon.
Speaker 2:So that's what I mean by the extrovert side of me I was going to say because I feel like in the last bunch of years you've more leaned and said you're leaning towards introvert.
Speaker 3:There are definitely places where I am, and I think some of that is my self-care. I know there's times I need to quiet myself and I need to learn how to be with myself again in a healthy way. You're fun to be with.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that you are, um, yeah, I get that. Okay, so brad's an extrovert guys, but you ride the line. Oh, I do, I absolutely. I feel like you have one foot on each side as I've grown older I'm I'm definitely more in that.
Speaker 3:That other camp of like okay, I got a little too much people Now I need some just me time, like that does happen, which takes you only like 5.3 minutes. Depends which people.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's what I would say If I'm with people the very few, select few that are kind of in my inner circle not because I'm exclusive, but because it's hard to bare your soul to tons of people and I want my inner circle to be ones that know me, can challenge me, call me out, but also love me in the hardest moments, so with them I never feel like I can't just spend time with them. But spending time with them doesn't drain me like spending time with large groups of people whom I don't know, or I'm having to make small talk and you know that kind of thing. So I'm definitely more introverted, but it took me a long time to understand that because, yes, for me escaping from my family was also a coping strategy. Right, and teenage years I think that's also kind of a somewhat normal stage you go through. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So. So how do we do this work while respecting, like we're not trying to turn people against their family?
Speaker 2:Well, and I think sometimes, yes, we're not trying to. I say all the time reiterate to my clients I'm not judging your family, I am not deciding things about them. Most parents, they are doing the best they can and they aren't right Like it is what's available to them emotionally, physically, but it's oftentimes missing the mark with their kiddos. And I can stand on the one side and be the person in my family we're talking about. I can also stand on the other side and be the mom who knows I've done this to my kids at times. So it really is just trying to find that balance of honor and honesty.
Speaker 3:I think we need to, and should, figure out what it means to honor a parent in how they attempted to love us, even in places where that love seems off right.
Speaker 3:Like there are times we can look hard and try and understand what that means. So you know, but for many of us it's okay. My parents tried their best or I can see you know their parent was this. So look at what my parent did right, and we can honor the growth in them, we can honor their attempts at connection, but we can also honor our own struggle and our own pain and go yeah, but there were times I was still hurting and that wasn't necessarily their fault Like we're not looking at trying to place blame with our stories.
Speaker 3:We're going okay. You know what I saw this thing, you know that happened. I saw this different relationship that you had with my sibling, or I saw this different way that you you know treated me, or something like that In that work. We can be hurt by that and we can acknowledge that and try to you know and try to understand and be honoring what that means for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the challenge comes in where we push into families most of the time, because I don't feel like I've ever done any stories where their family doesn't come in somewhere. I think, in order to be honoring, we have to actually be honest, right, right, order to be honoring, we have to actually be honest, right, because if we're not honest about how it impacted us emotionally, in our body, spiritually, all those things, then we will always come down on the side of self-contempt for ourselves. Why did I do that? That was dumb, all of that kind of stuff. And yet yet, as a child, your brain isn't developed enough to figure it out.
Speaker 3:That's why your parents are there to help you navigate and figure it out, and so I think it's interesting, I mean, you said it really well we trade contempt for somebody who hurt us or missed something with for self-contempt, right, because they were our parents and they were for self-contempt.
Speaker 2:Right, because they were our parents and they were doing the best they could. Right, and maybe we've even been told that, but it you know, dan Allender says we have to be brave and name the harm, the harm and who caused the harm.
Speaker 3:I totally agree.
Speaker 2:Right, because people are complex, no one's all good, no one's all good, no one's all bad, and if we don't understand the complexities and are able to name them, then we just continue to beat ourselves up, do things that are not helpful, do things that are painful and hurtful. Right, and so it really is a journey to figuring that out for yourself, so that you can honor your family better.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's the goal. Right Is not to, oh, make you acknowledge all the places that your parents screwed up so that then you separate from them. Like you know, I think that's the fear out there, but and it's not even necessarily so you can go back to your parents and get them to acknowledge all the places where they messed up. Really, the goal of story work and trauma care is to go wow, why is it that I'm still carrying this self-contempt? Like you said, or why am I still carrying these various wounds?
Speaker 3:that then impact my other relationships. That then, impact other places where I'm interacting with people in a certain way and they start showing up. Yeah. That's the challenge is, how do we see this reflected into our future, because these stories don't stay in the past right. They don't just happened back there and now I haven't thought about it for 100 years and it's just there.
Speaker 3:It really is something that is impacting us as we go through our lives, as we go through how we interact with people, and certainly this is where Kate and I keep coming back to. Certainly it interacts with our marriage all the time. The whole dynamic that we were talking about of me learning how to spend time by myself and enjoying time by myself is something that I have worked on as I've tried to understand my story and understand myself.
Speaker 3:Totally honest, like when we got married, I didn't like spending time by myself. Time by myself was bad. And so I would avoid it at all costs, and I think that was part of my story playing out right. I didn't really like being with me.
Speaker 3:And so then I would try and avoid that and fill that with anything possible and so often got filled with TV or often got filled with distractions or other things. Where, as I've grown and tried to get a little healthier, there is a place of me learning how to actually like being with myself and liking what I like and being for me, it almost always is being outdoors. Right, this weekend you and Lily were hanging out a little bit and so I had reading to do so for our course, so I was like you know what? I'm going to go sit outdoors. It's lovely. I'm going to go sit outside and read for a little while and just kind of enjoying being in the outdoors by myself is something I've recognized I need and is a healthy thing for me.
Speaker 3:I think that is me trying to understand my story. I think at the same time that can bump into your story of feeling like I'm pulling away in some ways that that can activate your story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's interesting because I, like I'm sitting here trying to think do I enjoy time by myself? I do. I think as a mom, I've fallen into or drove straight into I don't know like time. You know, up until this year, time by myself was.
Speaker 2:Cleaning and doing house chores, and it was a commodity and if there's, any kids in the house, like you cannot guarantee it and um, which I love, having my kids in the house, so it's not that at all. Um, so I think, uh, time alone for me is okay. I tend to be more comfortable with it when no one is here, if that makes sense, cause I think I feel that pull of, like, my responsibilities in the home, what I want to cultivate in our home, those kinds of things. Um, and with you I will say, like I've been trying to think about it more. I just enjoy your company, like I enjoy sitting next to you, which I know you would allow me to do when you're outside. It's hard for me not to talk to you, so like and I'm trying to think where that would be in my story, probably because I don't I generally don't feel like people in my family understood me or wanted to know, but I can be a bit of a verbal processor too.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:So anyways.
Speaker 3:But I think, if I can put it out there, I think you worry that my wanting to be by myself is because something with you. Hmm, Something with me like you don't want to be around me. Right, something with me, like you don't want to be around me, right, like something? Right, or you're being too much, or you're being, you know, too needy, or something, so now I'm pulling away in order to do that, which is not that at all yeah, no, I don't, I don't know that.
Speaker 2:I think that so much. I think, because of our story, sometimes space feels vulnerable to me, or like, yeah, even though you've been walking your freedom journey and I don't really worry about that a ton, but I think it probably does influence that. Um, so, yeah, I I'm trying to think where my story would come in, where it as far as like wanting to be alone or not. I spent a lot of time alone as a teenager, but you're not wrong, I filled it with music, right, like I would just listen to music all the time. So I mean, that's the reality. Our stories are bumping, whether we realize it or not.
Speaker 3:And that's that's kind of my point. Is this thing that I may be trying to do for health can send off ripples that could be bumping into your story? Yeah which then you come back and be like oh, why are you going away, right, like. And then I'm like well, wait a minute, like you're right, like, this is how you make me sound so pathetic. I'm not even saying that's something.
Speaker 2:Why are you going?
Speaker 3:away. I'm not saying that's something you would say, I'm just giving you an example of how stories bump into each other right, and you know it's this, then frustrating thing. That's like wait. Why are you upset by this? This is not, you know, know, that kind of dynamic that happens that definitely happened in the beginning of our marriage.
Speaker 3:Sure, I think, for sure, um, I don't I think it even happened in the beginning of my trying to figure out what alone time was, because and and this is still somewhat true in the time, wise, not not the emotions is, at that time I was working full time, you were homeschooling and dealing with little kids full time, and so any alone time I had was taking away time with you or the family. Right Cause, right so it, or your assistance or the family right Cause, right so it, or your assistance with the family.
Speaker 2:that's probably more correct.
Speaker 3:Right Like so it was a cost.
Speaker 2:You're like claiming this was years ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. When, when that was happening, I think there was a place that you're like well, wait a minute, why don't you want to spend time with us and like me trying to go, okay, like you know trying to figure out what healthy looked like in this and how to keep growing, and you know those kinds of things was a hard journey. I think I think we worked through it because it is a cost, right, like if we're just talking alone time, that is a cost for a couple. And.
Speaker 3:I think it's something that we tried to work through, and there's been times that I've taken personal retreats and things like that, but I've been really, I think been really intentional of coming home and going. Okay, here's the benefit of that right. Like not just okay, now I'm exhausted, Although that does happen sometimes because I tend to hike too much when I'm on a personal retreat and then, I come home and I'm like, oh, I'm sore, but anyway like trying to be here and be present. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think, that's just an example of how sometimes stories run into each other.
Speaker 2:Well, and we, yes, and I think one of the ones like that is a dynamic you can think about in your marriage. There are so many others like figuring out when one of us is sick, like how that dynamic impacts. That's probably the one I feel like people grasp really well when we share it, but like there are lots of different things that our story is playing everything. Really Sometimes it just doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:You don't notice. I mean, being sick is such an interesting dynamic, right? Because you can probably think through what was what happened to you when you were sick as a kid and that feels very normal yeah although it's probably different for you and your spouse of what happened absolutely right in my household.
Speaker 3:I was pretty much sent to my room if I was sick sounds like fun and sometimes I would be allowed like to come down and watch tv or something like sit on the sofa for a little bit, like that kind of thing, but it was pretty much alone and it's crazy. I can't even imagine that I mean I can actually and like, and this is just you know how my parents did life, but like if one of my parents was sick, they would then sleep in separate bedrooms so not to get other people sick.
Speaker 3:Like this was household, not just me. It was like if the house was, you were kind of supposed to isolate yourself so that you don't get other people sick. That was the rules, and so that meant kind of being by myself a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Which actually does mirror or does look a little bit like what happened to you.
Speaker 2:It does. But I think, yeah, I feel like mine's complicated and convoluted. But I was left alone, but not because I suffered from migraines. I still do Like that kind of thing. I was usually left alone, preferred to be alone. Well, I don't know what came first, if I'm honest, but having a migraine and a bunch of people around you making noise and whatever. I would often go to my room with those.
Speaker 2:But then I think when I'm talking about other sickness besides that, we were the family that you got to lay on the sofa right, you got to be in everybody else's space. I don't remember my parents talking too much about like, don't spread it. I think probably my own views on that is reflective of like. When our kids have been sick, I've been like it's inevitable. We all live in each other's spaces. Of course, I don't need one kid going over and licking the other kid's snotty hand, need one kid going over and licking the other kid's snotty hand, like I mean, we're not doing stuff like that, but and we've very much done that with our kiddos when they're sick, like they get to sleep on the sofa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um so, but yes, mine when I was sick, otherwise I was invited into a space of my family. But I think I learned very quickly, with my mom specifically, and whatnot, it was just better not to be sick.
Speaker 3:Not to be sick and to keep going.
Speaker 2:Right. So most of my history with being sick is what I do I just keep going.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, and I'm dealing with something right now and it's health-wise, and it's hard for me to slow down and just be like okay right. Right, so you can see how those dynamics me not slowing down you going to the room and isolating. In the beginning it was like oh my word. First of all, do you not like me anymore? Second of all, dude you me anymore.
Speaker 3:Second of all, dude, you can still do things when you're sick well, and there were times that I, you like, I'd isolate all day in the bedroom and then you'd come in to go to bed and I'm like, okay, I guess I'll go sleep on the sofa then. Right, like with this idea of I need to isolate myself from you, so I don't get sick, I know, but that was what was normal for me right.
Speaker 3:Is I'm supposed to handle this by myself. And so I fight that instinct to just, when I'm sick, just retreat and you can see how that trigger that feels normal ends up doing things for you. And then I end up minimizing your sick of like when you're like oh no, I'm fine, I'll just keep going. I'm like okay, I guess she's not that sick, right because I don't, I don't recognize it. I don't recognize it, I don't see it.
Speaker 3:So I'm like okay, like you know, kind of thing, and it's only much later that I've been like whoa, you need to stop, you need to let your body be sick, right, like you know, that kind of thing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not so good with that.
Speaker 3:I know. Anyway. So I'm working on it, but yeah. This is all stuff that we've done and understood about each other, like I now know that when. Kate's sick. There is this message that says she has to keep going.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right. And so then there's a place of care that I can start to say hey, wait a minute, I see you. You don't have to do that, right, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's what we right. That's where our stories, understanding that for both of us is so helpful, because Brad is able to enter in and say, hey, maybe you should cancel that for today. Like, yes, of course we can't always cancel everything, that's just not life, but you've been able to enter into that and then I've been able to enter into and hold for you Okay, you don't feel good, you need time to yourself, right, and not taking that as personal.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you not taking personally that I won't let you help me.
Speaker 3:That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's not anymore. I'm just so used to doing it on my own.
Speaker 3:It's interesting.
Speaker 2:We both went on our own, but for different reasons. That's the thing.
Speaker 3:Right, like you can have a similar response. Look very different between two people and this really is the heart of story work is understanding yourself better and understanding your spouse better and as you do that, all of a sudden some of the arguments that you used to have go. Oh okay, so you're not doing that because you're mad at me? You're not doing that because you're something else. You're acting out of this strategy that you've developed. You've acted right in that place.
Speaker 3:So, we're going to be spending the next couple probably a couple of weeks exploring more about some of the story work and talking through how we do that as a couple, what it looks like, what we're learning as we journey in some of this, so I hope that you'll join us on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And we'll be a part of us learning even more as we're going through another level. Of course, and keep learning for each other.
Speaker 2:I would encourage people like if you're listening to this, have the conversation of what do I do when I'm sick? What do you observe I do when I'm sick? Yeah, when does that come from? Yeah, right, like that's a dive into story, right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because every from Right Like that's a dive into story right there of like, because every husband and wife dynamic you've had to have it like everybody gets sick at some point. So yeah, just kind of I'd be curious for those couples to just enter into that conversation. That's really good. Yeah.
Speaker 3:All right. Well, this is great. This is a lot of fun, and we're going to keep talking about stories and about marriage and how we can keep growing towards each other as we are journeying towards still becoming one. Until next time, I'm Brad Aldrich.
Speaker 2:And I'm Kate Aldrich. Be kind and take care of each other.
Speaker 1:Still Becoming One is a production of aldrich ministries. For more information about brad and kate's coaching ministry courses and speaking opportunities, you can find us at aldrich ministriescom for podcast show notes and links to resources and all of our social media. Be sure to visit us at stillbecomingonecom and don't forget to like this episode wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to follow us to continue your journey on Still Becoming One.