Still Becoming One
Still Becoming One
The Intimacy Killer: Story Invalidation
What if the real intimacy killer isn’t your past, but how it gets dismissed? We dig into ways couples can invalidate each other’s stories—“It wasn’t that bad,” “You should be over it,” “That’s just your story”—and why those phrases shut down safety, trust, and depth. Drawing from our own marriage and years of coaching, we unpack the difference between knowing a partner’s facts and understanding the impact those moments wrote on the heart.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast. We are Brad and Kate.
SPEAKER_00:In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
SPEAKER_03:Now, as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches, we help couples to regain hope and joy.
SPEAKER_00:We invite you to journey with us as we are still becoming one.
SPEAKER_03:Let's start the conversation.
SPEAKER_04:Hello everyone. Welcome back to Still Becoming One.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome back.
SPEAKER_04:You're chipper for Monday.
SPEAKER_00:Wait a second.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so Mondays are not my favorite day, but I'm always, ah, always is a strong word. I'm often chipper.
SPEAKER_04:Everyone listening to this is like, it's not Monday, but that's when we're recording.
SPEAKER_00:True. But I'm often chipper in the mornings. No, you are. Just too chipper for you.
SPEAKER_04:I need my coffee first.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Or I hit chipper. Yeah, I just I have my coffee now.
SPEAKER_00:My body just says, well, if we're up, we might as well act like we're up. So then we just get the chipper part going on.
SPEAKER_04:There you go.
SPEAKER_00:But I have my London fog.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. Kate is um definitely, I was gonna say addicted. You're not addicted. You are definitely enjoy your London fog tradition.
SPEAKER_00:What would make me addicted?
SPEAKER_04:I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:If I had like six a day.
SPEAKER_04:We did discover that people in London have no idea what a London fog is.
SPEAKER_00:Nope. It's an American thing.
SPEAKER_04:It's an American thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's rude. But it's it's um the way that it's made is very British, though. Because it's Earl Grey tea.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_03:And then tea latte.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, a little vanilla syrup and then milk. So it makes it look like London's fog. And Earl Grey, I mean it's gray. So there you go. I do enjoy it.
SPEAKER_04:It's like your barista for the day.
SPEAKER_00:Your coffee and the moth. We have a moth flying around in here, and it almost just flew into your coffee.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, for sure. So what are we talking about today?
SPEAKER_04:What are we talking about? We're kind of continuing our path on understanding story work and how it implies in marriage, how it can help marriages. I think today actually we're gonna end up talking about how it maybe hurts marriages sometimes.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, we don't really want to promote that, do we?
SPEAKER_04:No, but I think it's something I I mean, admittedly, I did for a long time. I think it's something a lot of couples do um in invalidating their partner's story. And because of that, I think it's important that we talk about it. And we've even seen this as we've started working with couples um and they've gotten to know each other's stories a little bit, that sometimes the first thing that comes out is not exactly warm and fuzzy.
SPEAKER_00:Hmm. Well, maybe it's not, I I wouldn't go that extreme, but many times it's just like we listen and we're like, oh, okay. Right. And in our head, we're thinking, like, what's the big deal? All that like I don't know that everybody is necessarily like um what'd be the word, like aggressive back towards it. Like that's dumb or that, right? It's not, it's but it's not being able to to actually hear the heart of what how that impacted yeah their spouse.
SPEAKER_04:And I think truly some of this what's coming where it's coming from is this idea. I think almost all the times that we've worked with couples in story work. Maybe there's a few exceptions to this, but most of the time the partner knew the facts of a story.
SPEAKER_00:Many times, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Right? They they knew, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember you saying that happened. Like kind of so it's not like the topic was a secret, but I think a lot of times the emotions, the content, how that story shaped somebody, that's something that they've never even considered before.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I do think, however, you shared it, probably most people were talking about not sharing it in a storywork manner. If you share it once and you get a response that doesn't feel great or safe, then at least I know this to be true for myself and probably for you as well. Um, and you can share, but like then it doesn't feel safe to ever touch base on that subject again.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Kind of thing. And that's exactly what I mean. We kind of something about it invalidates the story. And you know, I I mean, I can say I certainly did this to you. Like you had told me a story early on that I I mean, I'll just say it. Like, I I took the side of your mom. Like when I heard the story, I was like, oh yeah, but you probably doesn't recognize William what she would went through.
SPEAKER_00:And I didn't feel like you took the side of my mom. I just felt like you thought it was not a big deal and get over it kind of thing. But interesting.
SPEAKER_04:Uh yeah, I I mean, I'm sure I I'm sure I probably communicated that too. Like, why is this such a big deal? But I think I was like, well, you don't understand how, like, and tried to defend some things that really hurt you in this way of just absolutely not hearing the pain, the hurt, the what this did to you, the the place of it feeling alone to you. Like, I don't think I supported, listened to any of that. I invalidated a lot of that by kind of saying it's not that big a deal, and you know, oh, your mom wasn't trying to do XYZ, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like kind of thing. And I think that but she was trying to. Well, that's a part of the story.
SPEAKER_04:That's part of the story, right? Exactly. But it it irregardless of what your mom did or didn't do, what your like the reasons behind her, whether she had a reason for it or not, doesn't matter. Like just the place of invalidating the fact that this thing hurt you is it, I mean, that's our ex one of our examples of how I did that early on. Um, and just kind of yeah, okay. And then so then it took a lot of years and us a lot of work for you to come back to that story and be able to share it in a way that I was able to hear the actual little kid emotions.
SPEAKER_00:Hmm. I had to share it in a way that you were able to hear. That's even interesting, right there, that you said that.
SPEAKER_04:Well, no.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think it's that. I think it's you being able to listen in a way.
SPEAKER_04:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Right?
SPEAKER_04:Correct. I I mean, I think this is what happens all the time is people do share the details of their stories. Well, because sharing the emotions of their stories.
SPEAKER_00:Right, because we share the details first to see if someone can even hold that, right? And when they can't hold that well, why would we share the emotions? Because they're deeper and much more personal and vulnerable and I think that is entirely accurate.
SPEAKER_04:I think that is I I think I'm trying to say this, like I think that is also how women hold and retell stories. I think men don't even realize there's emotion in the story until they're encouraged in a way to actually find it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, okay. I and yes, in this generation of Americans, women are allowed and somewhat more encouraged with their emotions. But I think like looking back, thinking about myself, I think I could tell you there was great hurt.
SPEAKER_01:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:But that's probably it.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not sure I could have gone deeper because I was never encouraged to go deeper. No one in my life acknowledged the pain of that story. No one, you know, not even the person causing it, apologize. Like there's just no so I think I don't know that I could have dove further because there was no permission to do so.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So we have to like think about all those dynamics as well, right? And how they impact things.
SPEAKER_04:Do you think, like, as I was talking through this topic of invalidating our our stories, there's two sides of that. There's certainly what I did of invalidating and ending up taking the side of the opposite side of the story and going, oh, that shouldn't be a big deal, or well, you know, kind of thing. That's certainly invalidating. There's also that side that I know I did in my own stories for a long time in going, oh, I should just get over that. That's just not that big a deal. Why, why is that even a thing that keeps coming up for me? Like, and and kind of trying to tell ourselves that we're being babies about it or you know, whatever, the that it just shouldn't matter.
SPEAKER_00:Which is kind of an ironic statement. We're being babies about it. It's not quite accurate, but we are being kids. And that's the thing. Like I think for me, learning to validate, of course, understanding story was huge, but then being able to actually envision, sit with that little girl or little boy for you, like thinking about you, and being able to sit with him and be like, oh my goodness, this is this is a lot, this is hard. I think that's the reality. We we can't sit with the adult version, although we are, in sense, I found like I feel like going in circles, but like today we're sitting with the adult version as people, but we're also sitting with the kid who experienced it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I mean, one of the ways I say that all the time is I think we said last episode, you know, little T trauma is this idea we were put in situations that we weren't ready to handle. And what happens is as an adult, we look back on that situation and we go, Oh, I know what I would do. I know how to handle that, I know how to respond to that situation, that bully, that thing. And we think with our adult brain, like, okay, this is what I do, and then we invalidate the youth child brain in going, Well, that was dumb. I should have just handled that differently, and it would have been fine. And that, like that kind of transposing of our adult intelligence versus our kid intelligence, and going, I shouldn't have been overwhelmed by this. Right. Which isn't fair, right? Like, because your child brain, your child abilities were overwhelmed by this. And you know, it's not that you've now learned how to handle a hard situation or you learn how to communicate to people differently. It's not that. It's that in the moment you didn't have those resources. Sure. Yeah. So I mean, I know for me, a lot of the invalidation that I had to get over was this is something that everybody experiences. It's just not that big a deal because my traumas that I've written up are not defined by big T trauma, right? They're not situations where my life was in danger or I was fearful of, you know, somebody in my life dying or something like that. Those were not the situations that caused trauma for me, which are by definition traumatic. Um, but mine were lots of little tea traumas that nobody knew about, nobody knew existed. So for a long time in my journey, I invalidated myself in just going, it's not a big deal, right? Everyone has to get through this, it's just a growing experience. I shouldn't be bothered by this. And I'll even throw out there the I think Christian answer has been, and I and I've done this of like, you just have to forgive that person.
SPEAKER_00:Gotcha.
SPEAKER_04:And I remember going through a process of thinking about some specific stories and working through like forgiving. And I I don't want to say that was not important. I think it it is, but it didn't do anything to change me. It didn't do anything to change how I thought about myself, how I felt about myself, how I how my story changed.
SPEAKER_00:Because it doesn't make sense of it.
SPEAKER_04:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Like forgiveness is a is a biblical principle. It's a good life principle, even if you're not a believer, to forgive people. And people always say, but it's more for the person like the person who needs to forgive, it's more for them, like to help yourself. But yes, forgiveness to me is a very different process than being able to understand and honor what happened.
SPEAKER_01:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Although I do wonder if forgiveness should always be accompanied by the other. But anyways, it's not always within our grasp to understand and honor.
SPEAKER_04:I think I went through that process in this space of this is what I'm supposed to do as a Christian. So I'm going to then forgive. Rather than I'm going to actually feel the grief of this story, I'm going to feel the loss that was created in this story and then actually forgive that real emotion. Like, I don't think I did any of that. Right. Like that's a different part. But I, you know, I think there was a part of me that went, okay, you forgave, so now you shouldn't be thinking about this anymore. You shouldn't be worried about this story anymore. And that's another place of that invalidating the significance of our past.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Well, and forgiveness isn't those things. I mean, it's just such a yeah. I mean, we could go down this road for a while. It's such the way the church, you know, we say Christians, but it's really the church, which is where Christians meet and find community. But like it's really their preaching that pushes that. Sure.
SPEAKER_04:I don't really think that's biblically what Jesus says, but no, the biblical idea of forgiveness is you know, not to forget that something happened, not to never bring it up again, not to feel it. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with I'm not gonna collect on that debt. I'm not gonna collect on what's owed to me.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Because I'm choosing to go, you know, I'm going to forgive that that debt kind of idea, right? So um that's that biblical idea. I think there is a significant emotional place for that. I think the church has used it in order to force victims to into a box of this is what the victim has to do when anything bad happens. And they often have used it to hide really awful things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And that's not okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think too, when we see Jesus speaking with people, we're kind of going off in an offshoot here, but I think about the fact that he speaks to people in their stories. Like he literally say more about that.
SPEAKER_04:I like that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. It's because I'm amazing. Just kidding. Guys, this is what he gets every morning. Can you imagine? Who wouldn't be excited about that? Um, he speaks to people in their stories, like he references their stories, but not in a way that is um condemning or you're horrible, or and of course, we have to acknowledge that Jesus is the perfect amount of love and truth. Like he gets a right every time for every personality, for every person that he created, basically. Um, so he knows things that we can not tap into. Um, so he's got that going for him, which is pretty big, but he still speaks to them in you know, the woman at the well, right? Like she said, he told me everything I've ever done, and that was comforting and right. Um it was it was validating. No, it was validating. Okay, you see me. Yeah, you don't just see what I've done, and and he does that with Peter. I love his interactions with Peter, he does it with everyone, yeah. He literally does, he speaks to them through their story, he moves into the heart, you know.
SPEAKER_04:I think about Zacchaeus, right? Like Zacchaeus was hated, not, but was curious about Jesus, and so there was something enough in that relationship that he was able to have a dinner, hang out with Zacchaeus, and get him to a place of going, hey, if I've cheated anyone, I want to make it better. Right? I I'm you know, that's a whole ton of vulnerability. So I, you know, I think you're exactly right. There's a place where Jesus was able to hear people and help them to feel seen. And that's the difference between story invalidation and story validation, right? It's not that the change doesn't happen, it's not that you know it's it, but it is harder because we have to be able to hold a really hard story.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and it's at the same time, like Jesus is sitting with it, validating it, but also, you know, saying something of the sort of, and we don't have any examples of this, but I think through his actions, he's saying, but I want something better for you.
SPEAKER_01:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Like I I have better for you. I understand this is where you are, this is where you've come from, but there is better.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And not with uh you're stupid, why did you enter into that? No, with understanding of like, right, because Jesus knows every temptation that has come to man, so he knows what every person that he talks with has faced. Yes, but I have something better.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When you're ready.
SPEAKER_04:When you're ready, yeah. I like that.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:I do think, you know, and this is in opposition, right? We were talking about invalidating ourselves in our own story. I think what you're highlighting is the difference in how Jesus handled other people's stories instead of how we sometimes end up seeing spouses handle it by things like, yeah, okay, I know that happened. Shouldn't you be over that now? Or, you know, uh we've talked about like, okay, you're triggered. That's just your story talking. So I know you're being mean now because of your story, or I know you're like triggered because your story, like that kind of throwing out doesn't help.
SPEAKER_00:So what would be helpful?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, well, maybe that's for a later episode. No, I mean, I I mean, you know, in short answer, it is like we started talking about how our stories wrote things on our heart, which are usually self-deprecating, self-evaluating fears, hurts, things like that. And our spouse, knowing what those are and where they show up, then has a choice. Do they either add to those self-deprecating things, or do they speak to them in going, hey, I'm sure you're feeling this right now, I don't want you to feel that way. That doesn't mean, right? Like if somebody, for instance, has a story that they're, you know, on their heart is written, like, people are just gonna leave me. Like nobody cares, people are gonna leave me. Right. If you're having an argument with your spouse who has that story, and you want to end the argument, like you want to be like, I need a timeout, you're probably if you just go, Oh, I can't talk anymore, right? That story is going to get hugely activated. This person's gonna leave me, right? And then you're gonna see the fear out of that. Then you're gonna see the story.
SPEAKER_00:Or you're a person who needs timeouts.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:You can see how that would activate that a lot. Not that we're not saying those things may not be necessary, but it's how, yeah, probably I'm sorry, jumping ahead of you.
SPEAKER_04:I'm not sure I understood that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00:Like how, like, if you're someone who needs timeouts and your spouse has that story, you saying, Hey, I need, I need to go for a walk for or I need to go for a drive, that is going to push into and activate that they're gonna leave me.
SPEAKER_04:Right. They're gonna leave me.
SPEAKER_00:What I was saying of like, that doesn't mean timeouts may not still be necessary.
SPEAKER_04:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:But it's what what do we do then when that is necessary to help our spouse know that's not what's happening right now?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's exactly right. It's how do we recognize that story is happening, that that idea, you know, is there, they're they're going to feel this because you need some distance. That doesn't mean you're needing distance needs to go away.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Right. It it means how do I tell my spouse, hey, I love you, I need some space, I'll be back later, and we can keep talking about this. Right. Like now that's a very, you know, thought out way to say it, but there's easier even ways to say that. Right.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_04:So I'm not expecting even the calm, but there is easier ways to know, oh, my spouse is gonna be feeling this, but I still need to listen to my needs. That's fine. And trying to match both. That's the idea of how do you use your spouse's story well.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Um, this is more the how you're using it inappropriately. And we have heard people say things like, oh, that's just your story talking. If we were, you know, doing something, dealing with something, and I threw out that's just your story talking, how would you feel?
SPEAKER_00:How would I feel?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, well, I think we're a bad example, unfortunately. Guys, we're a bad example.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Because I think we've gotten comfortable with that kind of talk. I think I might be a little like that. But because we're we're very um, we talk about our story a lot and we're we do, but we probably should be cautious of how we we should be because we care, but I d I think you and I are just so have worked on we know where that's coming from.
SPEAKER_04:Kind of like flippant disregard for now is only based on X, I think is part of the problem. Like that would feel sure, sure.
SPEAKER_00:I think for other people, I think that's very true. I think for us, like, I think I would just say there are nicer ways to like approach that. And um, but even sometimes I was thinking about you will often do like, hey, don't do that. That will be your way to remind me. Like, don't go down that road.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. I think some people But I think it's usually that second statement that I want you to hear. It's hey, don't let that voice come in because it's because it's not true, right?
SPEAKER_00:It's not but that's what I'm saying. Like you and I tend to use phrases that probably I would not advise other people to use.
SPEAKER_04:Don't do that.
SPEAKER_00:Um but I think things like, hey, why is that coming up right now?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00:What happened?
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Like curious and caring more so than and maybe they already know what happened or what came up, but just like, you know, speaking to that. I just think there are ways to be curious and kind and caring.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Even if you're frustrated. Because I can see that a spouse can sometimes, especially if someone has a very prevalent theme that is showing up every day, which we have worked with couples where it is it is prevalent. And what I would just love you to know in that case is if it is that prevalent, that means it was that prevalent in their life. In their life.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's very true.
SPEAKER_00:So, like, and I know that can still be frustrating, but one thing I've also encouraged, which this could get me in trouble, is you're angry at that, like how often it comes up, how hard it is. Maybe go through a process of of honor and honesty towards who caused it.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Like you're you're making your spouse pay, you're angry with them, yet where did that come from?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right? And that people would be like, oh, so I'm supposed to hate my in-laws. No, that's not what I'm saying. To be able to honor them and love them well, we have to be able to honor the complexities and the fact that this hurt your spouse so profoundly also needs like I think our spouse often need for us to feel like we're rising up against that.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. Right. So we've used this term, I don't know, three several times during this podcast of holding somebody's story well.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:What does that mean? What does it mean to like hold a story?
SPEAKER_00:Um well. I was like, do I be snarky? No, we'll just go with good stuff. Um, hold it well. It it I realize that feels like an elusive term.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:But to me, it's to sit there, listen well. They have your full attention. You realize they're not just sharing about their grocery shopping today, like, or something that happened at work, like listening well and hearing what they are actually trying to convey to you of how it impacted them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then, so it's that part, hearing it well, and then it's what do we do with that afterwards? We don't just dismiss it. We don't just, no, that's no big deal. It's gosh, thank you for sharing that with me. Like that sounds really difficult. It sounds really in line with what I know you've experienced. Whatever, like validating comments, genuine validating comments of I hear that. That's really hard. And then I think there's the future piece of you honor that story.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We don't bring it up in a way that is um poking fun or making belittling it, invalidating it.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Because probably it's brought up at home that way.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. No, uh we've said that so many times that a lot of times our stories did become family jokes. Because people make jokes of things they're uncomfortable about.
SPEAKER_00:I was just thinking about that though. Your family doesn't tell jokes. So your family was not the family. No. Well but are there stories they made fun of that you now Yes.
SPEAKER_04:There's one that poppy seed one. No. Oh that's interesting. Yes that is one that is one button although that was like not I would say that was a very kid trauma but as I grew up that didn't really impact me. It was just really embarrassing and really embarrassing hard. Yeah it was an embarrassing moment.
SPEAKER_00:It wasn't it but it all of us have those too.
SPEAKER_04:Right. It wasn't like a like I don't think that one specifically wrote anything on my heart if you will um okay I the one that I literally don't remember this really happening. I only remember the retelling or the joke about it. Okay. Um is the um babysitter one.
SPEAKER_00:Oh right?
SPEAKER_04:Like see now yeah I say it the babysitter rubbing your back. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. And how I manipulated the babysitter at like what two or three or something like that. No, it was older was it than that.
SPEAKER_00:You couldn't even really form full sentences.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah I don't remember how old but it was before I remembered. But the the joke was how I manipulated the babysitter in to sit there for like half an hour and rub my back and like that you know that story is obviously about me craving that touch from somebody.
SPEAKER_00:And care.
SPEAKER_04:And care. Right. So heck yeah babysitter was willing to do it like yeah that is a situation of a joke kind of in a family that is reflecting something that's there. You have several you have multiple because your family did that often.
SPEAKER_00:My family's a little bit more make fun of people kind of family. But you know what I was just reflecting on and this is probably we're just having our own reflection here guys with you present the one that I that you're talking about which I'm not afraid to share it on air but I just we're not getting into all that today um that is that you were talking about that was really hard for me that one was never joked about no that's not because my mom got caught in a lie.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right? And so like that was not one that was ever brought up.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah that's interesting. But a lot of my other ones yes like I had the reputation of like you were the trying to kill my siblings constantly bad kid even though you were the middle child or you were like the one doing stuff to your siblings even though it wasn't you.
SPEAKER_00:Well I'm sure I did sometimes but my siblings also like in many situations where I have been blamed for something my siblings have like stood up for me and said that's not how it happened. But it doesn't matter it doesn't matter it's still um and that's still me.
SPEAKER_04:That's kind of the example of not holding it right but I the vision the picture that I get of holding a story well is that exactly what you started with you said at the beginning of the podcast like if you hold a story well if somebody feels like their story is held well they will then go deeper right and I think there is always this place that it's like can you hold can can you be there can you hear this part and then there is often more right and it is a picture of safety is how do I be safe to my partner in this place of giving so that when when they're talking about this thing that happened how do you show them you can be there and take care of them and this situation and not be shocked by it, not be upset by it and you know help them with it because I think that's in in essence what they're asking for. And so often that is so vulnerable that it's actually I think it's often easier to tell strangers your stories sometimes than it is telling your spouse. Because if a ch stranger doesn't hold it well and I don't mean just total stranger like on the street I'm thinking like when when we've had situations of like story groups and stuff like that that somebody's coming into a place in order to tell their story. They don't necessarily all of a sudden know everybody there, right? So they're in essence strangers they're going to become friends but it's that place and I think it's easier to tell them that hard stuff sometimes than your spouse I yeah I can get that I think it just depends on people but I think I think you're probably not wrong in some cases. Because of this risk of how they're gonna hold it where if a stranger doesn't hold it well yes it hurts but it's like okay they didn't hold it well whatever I can't trust them as with anything right like so it it does impact you it does change things. If your spouse doesn't hold a story well then what do you do? Yeah right it gets really heavy and it's hard and it it's like now I don't even know how I'm supposed to you know trust and grow like so it it really is important and this is very vulnerable obviously for for partners.
SPEAKER_00:Well and think about it think about other people in your life a really good friend a sibling like and I think I hear siblings talk about it a lot like you tried to float a story that impacted you as a kid to your sibling right and you start with some of it and then you start to see oh this isn't like right and then you back off and you're like never mind like or you just nope that's like all I was going to tell you right because and I'm not saying every sibling does this by any means but like they experienced it very differently. They don't they don't have the same experiences they're not able to be in touch with their story yet. There are lots of reasons and that can happen with our spouse but we live with our spouse and if they're unable to meet us there that feels very scary. Correct right and so like I think that's yeah for sure it is one of the most um delicate places that we maybe delicate isn't the word I don't know what the word is but you know what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah like yeah yeah and that often happens we start to tell the story and it feels like this isn't it's insignificant this is stupid this isn't being received well correct this is dumb whatever it may be right right yeah I think that's really true and that's the goal as we're going through this is how do you not do that stuff? How do you not diminish their story? How do you tell your spouse I care about this stuff and this is why we call this like the missing intimacy in marriage because one we do see it at the root of so many arguments so many disagreements and and those conflicts that like cycle um maybe that's what we talk about next time is how this shows up in a day to day in a marriage but um you know I so I we see it in that but it's also this place of deeper deeper understanding of each other deeper care for each other deeper love about you know your spouse being able to truly understand this this level of intimacy in their story. Yeah so I agree that's the goal it's not an easy one to hold each other's stories well to really try your hardest not to invalidate although if you have invalidated it's not the end of the world it just means there's some repair that needs to happen there and recognizing it and going okay I I really want to be able to trust again and try again and being able to hold that well. So yeah that's why we've talked so many times about how repair is important because repair does is a vulnerable way of saying hey I know I messed this up yeah so yeah and I think too it's you know it's a call obviously your marriage is the most important relationship that you have to do this in and then of course it fans out to your children family all that kind of stuff but like it really is a call to listen to people's stories well right like I try now whenever someone is giving me a nugget of their life to stop and really hold it be a good listener right and hold it yes because I do think um listening and holding it are very different.
SPEAKER_02:Right?
SPEAKER_00:We can listen to be the Christian that listened and checked it off off the box which a lot of churches do a lot of we listen really well. That's great but there is the place of if nothing ever changes then it's invalidation of listening actually but anyway that's a side note um but like we're listening to actually hear their heart and and sometimes that catches me off guard. Like sometimes it can be in a weird moment with someone I don't really know.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:I like to use the grocery store even though I don't grocery shop guys Instacart is my my haven. But when you're going somewhere and you're checking out somewhere or unpaid sponsorship. There you go or I'm at Goodwill my other favorite place and somebody strikes up a conversation and you're like right just trying to meet that person where they are is huge. It's huge and I think that heart change posture can really change how you look at your own story those around you that kind of thing. Yeah that's not saying you don't have normal life things. Probably when I had my three young toddles at the grocery store that's so different.
SPEAKER_04:Listening to a story at that point you know it's very based on how everybody's doing and where they are in the grocery store and if I have to chase them down and no it's incredibly different right I'm not saying there's never times where it's not and I a space around those spaces even in in you know in the middle of the kitchen you're trying to cook dinner your you know your spouse comes in and goes oh my gosh I need to tell you how this thing activated me like that may be the time to go can we wait until later so we can do this together where I can actually hear it and the kids aren't crazy and like that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Or even better you say you hand over whatever you're cooking to your spouse and say I really need to listen well. So here you go you can't you finish cooking and I'll listen while you talk.
SPEAKER_04:Okay yeah that that sounds no I I mean that sounds like something I would do just so I don't have to cook um I I just I do think you're bringing up a good point there is timing in this and it there needs to be it needs to be understood that there is good times to do it and not but I think if we can acknowledge like okay I'm not actually in a space to listen to this or you know you missed it with a friend you can go back to that friend and go man I was not in a space to to hear that but I did I did listen to your story. I'd really love to come back to it and actually hear it with you right and hold it with you. So I I think there is places to do that well. Yeah for sure for sure well we're gonna continue this conversation I think next time we'll dive into where does this story stuff impact marriages today right like so we're spending so much time talking about these things that happened in our past how why why is that significant like why how does that impact a marriage today and what do we do about it how do we lead towards healing in that so stay tuned to the next episode and uh we will for sure keep talking as we're in this journey with you of still becoming one so until next time I'm Brad Aldrich and I'm Kate Aldrich be kind and take care of each other Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich Ministries for more information about Brad and Kate's coaching ministry courses and speaking opportunities you can find us at Aldrich Ministries.com for podcast show notes and links to resources in all of our social media be sure to visit us at stillbecoming one dot com.
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