In honor of Veterans Day, Congressman Porter sat down with Brigadier General (ret.) Robert P. Daniels to discuss the history and significance of the day. With his years in the National Guard, experience in academia and decades in the nonprofit sector supporting employment opportunities for individuals with disabilities, General Daniels brings an inspiring perspective on the importance of public service.
In honor of Veterans Day, Congressman Porter sat down with Brigadier General (ret.) Robert P. Daniels to discuss the history and significance of the day. With his years in the National Guard, experience in academia and decades in the nonprofit sector supporting employment opportunities for individuals with disabilities, General Daniels brings an inspiring perspective on the importance of public service.
Then, welcome to Politics Aside. This edition comes at a very special time, as we're on the eve of Veterans Day. Today, really more than ever, gives us an opportunity to reflect, to appreciate and to say thank you to men and women that have served our community and our state and our country for so many years. You know, on, politics Aside is just that we put Politics Aside in talk to individuals that I believe have helped change the world, that are personal friends of mine as well. But, most important, I do believe that our guests today, not only as a dear friend of mine and a mentor of mine we work on projects together with individuals with disabilities but today I wanna make a formal introduction to my special guest and good friend, brigadier General Robert P Daniels. The General is one of the more modest individuals that I know and seldom talks about all of the great things that he's done to serve again our community and our nation and the world. So I wanna take a moment and just walk through quickly because, my gosh General, there are a lot of wonderful things that you've done.
Speaker 1:Undergraduate and master's from Utah State. Us Army Command General and Staff College. Us Army War College. A national security fellow at JFK School of Government, harvard, an adjunct professor at BYU, and one of the more difficult things is to be confirmed by the US Senate. For anything right. To be confirmed is a huge honor and again a credit to you for your hard work from the US Senate, confirmed as a Brigadier General Quickly. On the civilian side, you've had a passion in serving the community, from vocational rehab, working with individuals with disabilities, through the State of Utah, through a Building One program where we work on projects together every day. Also, I pioneer in rehabilitation services and, again, helping individuals that need help the most. Board member of a great organization called Source America, but also, as time permits, a hotshot crew member for the US Forest Service, where you served jumping out of airplanes six seasons, serving our nation as well. So, with that General, get your thoughts as we're on the eve of Veterans Day. And what does it mean to you?
Speaker 2:Thank you, congressman Porter. It's a pleasure to be with you today. I think that, starting off with Veterans Day, I think it's a small child. I can remember being with my grandparents and my grandpa served in World War I and my father served in World War II but they talked about Armistice Day and I didn't really know what they were talking about. You know I just what's Armistice Day? But then as I grew older and come to create more fondness for people that had served in our military, I do want to mention that in 1954, president Eisenhower changed Armistice Day to Veterans Day, and so we've been celebrating Veterans Day on November 11th since 1954.
Speaker 2:A lot of things have happened since 1954.
Speaker 2:You know, we've had the Vietnam War, we've had the Cold War, we had the war on terrorism and we continue to use our military in peacekeeping.
Speaker 2:I think we're a peacekeeping nation, we're not wanting to be a war-seeking nation, and I think examples of that's what's going on with our peacekeeping efforts in Ukraine and in Israel. So one thing I would say if I don't get a chance to come back to this every community probably, or within probably 20 miles of where everybody lives, unless they're really out in the woods is that there's celebrations in all the communities. That's going to happen mostly probably on Saturday, but tomorrow we're honoring Veterans Day. It's Friday holiday. So I would request that maybe and even if it's after Veterans Day for anybody that watches this podcast that they would seek out some veteran they know and I think everybody knows a veteran and a lot of them are family members and just take a moment and thank them for their service and, if they're willing to open up, have a conversation about that, have a conversation about what their service meant to them and what it means to them still today. So that would probably be. My big ask is to give appreciation to somebody that's served.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. Thank you, general. And if I can comment, my father, rustus, all served in World War II in the Aleutian Islands in Alaska and he didn't really want to talk about that experience, although he certainly was proud to serve his country, but he never was very comfortable. And I found that with Veterans through the years that it's a part of their life, they're proud of it but they don't really. But my dad especially didn't really want to talk about Hola and tell almost a year before he passed away unexpectedly. But it always made me feel very proud of him and everything. And again, it's important that we share your experiences because a lot of Veterans don't want to talk about it. Do you find that, general, or is that unique to me?
Speaker 2:You know, I think that's the rule and I think that the rule is more. You know it's easy to talk about your experiences in peacetime and you know those experiences are very easy to speak to. But if you're and I never did experience combat, so I but my father did and he suffered from PTSD. They called it battle fatigue back then. But he, he, I was watching a movie once called combat when I was young, you know, a teenager. I remember that show and he come down the TV was in the basement. He came down, turned off TV and said I couldn't watch that anymore and he just kind of was starting to have a fit that I was watching it and what that all. And it took me a long time and into my adulthood to figure out that what was really going on was it was bringing back experiences of PTSD that he did. It was bad for him to have it on, it wasn't so bad for me to watch, but it was really bringing back experiences he didn't want to remember. So you know, I think those are the experiences that the people have a hard time with. And PTSD is real, you know, and I, you know they used to call it battle fatigue. Get over it. You know you're weak and that kind of thing. But that's not what. Ptsd it's a real, you know. It's a crippling disease that the individuals that suffered you know, and it's not only in military combat, anything you know, traumatic stress syndrome. That I think is real.
Speaker 2:So I never was able to really talk to my dad. He served on in the specific campaign and he was on Okinawa and he never would tell me anything about it and if I even brought it up it was like we're not going there. So I learned, probably by the time I was 14 years old, you didn't talk about what he did in the military. And to give you an example of that and I think I give it as an example he passed away when he was 86 years old and he was in an assistive living center and I put together a shadow box that had his campaign medals and Murray served and he had two purple hearts, he had the bronze star and silver star and I put in the shadow box and I was, you know, I was probably, you know, my late 40s, early 50s and I took it to his room and put it in his room and hung it on the wall and was just proud as I could be that I was recognizing for his service.
Speaker 2:I came back the next day and it was gone and I says what happened to the shadow box? He says I can't look at it. I put it in the closet and I would appreciate it if you'd take it home. So I mean. So what my point is? You know he was on Okinawa in 1944. He passed away in 2008 and it's still haunted, you know. So it's real. Well then, the changes.
Speaker 1:He must have seen, of course, through the years and then the changes. So was that part of your inspiration then, to join the military, to join the Guard.
Speaker 2:Well, I think my inspiration was my dad told me that I would not join the. He would not allow me to join the military. You know, that was not something that I needed to do and the lottery came out and I got a low lottery number and I still had a school deferment. So when, when my lottery number came up, I was like, I think, 190 and they were going to like 195. So in December I was, I lost my deferment because I was in graduate school. I was getting a master's degree at Utah State and I found out there was openings in the Idaho National Guard. So I drove to Burley, Idaho, which is about two hour drive, and joined the National Guard and I just figured I was be there for six years.
Speaker 2:But then, after I got in, went to basic as enlisted and at AIT I was trained to be a tank you know, an armored cab tank driver and I decided I went out on a FTX field training exercise in the desert, idaho, and came back and had more more dirt on my face than I had done when I was fighting forest fires for the forest service and I said I don't want to drive tanks anymore, I'm going to OCS. So I applied for OCS and then got a commission. Dude found out that the military wasn't like my dad had explained the military to be. It was an opportunity to grow and develop.
Speaker 2:After I got my commission I just my six years was up. I could have got out, but I stayed in and it created all kinds of opportunities. You know, I mean I can remember when I got I would play for the war college, which is in Carlisle, pennsylvania, and I got a notice that that I wasn't selected to attend the war college but in lieu of the war college at Carlisle, I could go to be a national security fellow at the Kennedy School at Harvard.
Speaker 1:And congratulations on that. That is not an easy task.
Speaker 2:And all I could say to myself is how do you say no to Harvard? And so I ended up. That was probably one of our. I moved the family back to Boston. We lived there for 13 months and it was a great growing experience, not only for me and intellectually, but with the military. But also the family had a whole different experience. I mean, you know what Utah is, boston's not what Boston is, utah's not kind of thing. You know, one's in the desert, one's by the ocean, one's humidity, one's dry. It's kind of like Las Vegas.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's Nevada, utah. Yes, it's a dry heat. I promise General, it's a dry heat. And is there in your experiences, is there some like one or maybe a couple of things, but mostly a priority in your life. Having served that you'd like to share with our listeners today.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, probably one of the things I would like to share is I think that the public as a whole, from my perception, believes that the military is an aggressive branch of our government that fights our wars and wins our wars and that. But I want to say that, just as important, our military is a peacekeeping force and if one looks at what we're doing in the world, a lot of what we're doing is peacekeeping. It's not engaged in conflict and I believe, in most all cases, those, in most all cases, those individuals that are serving in the military serve because of the peacekeeping part of what we do, not because they want to be in combat.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess, in following your career as a true public servant, I know a passion for you for years and years has been helping individuals with disabilities or individuals that need help the most. You worked, as I mentioned earlier, with the State of Utah, then other organizations that you help create, pioneer Rehabilitation Center and, again, as I mentioned today, currently your second term as a board member with Source America, whose primary charge is finding employment for individuals, helping find employment through nonprofit community for veterans as well as others that have challenges. Can you talk about that transition? When did you decide that was going to be your mission in parallel with your public service?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it started in it was again trying to avoid the military. You know, the Vietnam was still going. The lottery came out and I graduated from Utah State and I decided that I didn't want to get drafted that's probably the big thing and so I decided that I would apply for graduate school and join get into ROTC, because they have the graduate degree I wanted to get was the two-year degree and ROTC is a four-year program but they have a two-year program and so I was going to join the two-year program but I was wanting to get a master's degree in history and.
Speaker 2:I changed my mind and decided I wanted to go into special education. So I applied for a fellowship in special education. I got the fellowship and I was in graduate school when they had the lottery, so my deferment was gone, but the lottery was came out and hoping I'd get a high number, then I would never need to worry about it, which you know. It's kind of interesting that probably the thing I was trying trying to avoid was the military, which has been one of the strongest blessings I had in my life was to be able to serve and serve this great nation that we live in and the freedoms that we speak for. So any so to go forward, I got a master's degree in special education and got a job teaching at local high school and coaching football and baseball as assistant football coach and baseball coach for high school. And I was in seventh heaven, you know, and I was. And then a group of individuals in this is 1974 came and asked me if I would start a program for adults, a work program, because my master's thesis was on work study, you know. So they and so we.
Speaker 2:There was 12 individuals that were living in the community, that had come out of the institution, and we started we call Park Pioneer Adult Rehabilitation Center, started Park, it was called the development Davis County Development Center.
Speaker 2:But you know it has things change.
Speaker 2:You know the names got a change because and so we started out in 1974 with 12 clients and I had a $25,000 grant that was to pay three staff and that was including me, with a total of 25,000, I think I anyways, and when I retired from that organization in 1974 so I I'm juggling both being in the military from 1974 to running Park, which I retired from in 2014 and your family, yeah, I and and the family, yes, and so it anyways, to make a long story short, that when I did leave Park, we had, we were serving over 400 individuals with disabilities.
Speaker 2:The annual budget, I believe, was like 16 million, and so we, we grew that too. And, like I had strong staff, that when I, you know, I spent a year in Boston and I, I basically, was still running Park from Boston, you know, with a distance, but they were very good, you know they. They supported me when I was doing military stuff extremely, supported me a hundred percent, or I wouldn't be able to do both, you know. So I know how to juggle between a civilian job in a military career, so I learned can you as you transition then were?
Speaker 1:were you a nonprofit then under the former source America? I know it's changed his name as well. How did that evolve in the year leadership role now with one of the most dynamic and the most successful programs for employees with disabilities, including veterans in the country. How did that evolve and what brought you to source America?
Speaker 2:well, that's probably a negative story. It started out negative. Our Park was on the other side of I-15 from Hill Air Force Base.
Speaker 2:I'm all right where that is, by the way and I learned yeah, and I learned about the Ability One program and what it was doing just through the network of what I was involved with and I back then the regions were a lot more function than they are now.
Speaker 2:So the West region was in California and I contacted the executive director for the West region, told them I knew that there was an opportunity to do parts sorting at Hill Air Force Base and I would like to get a statement of work and see if we could have it set aside and used for the Ability One program. And it all worked out that they ended up giving it to a nonprofit in Ogden which kind of I don't know how that works, and it kind of angered me, I guess as a good way to say it. And so I started doing some research and found out that NCSE back then was just called the Council of Work Centers. Milk Cohen was still on it, you know, goes back clear back. This was like 1984 or 1980, yeah, 1984,. So about 10 years after we got started and I was able to, I guess, maneuver myself onto a position with the Council of Work Centers and then eventually I became a little more visible, I believe, and we'd started getting some Ability One contracts.
Speaker 1:But in general, I believe, as we've gotten to know each other and again I cherish our friendship and appreciate it. I know your style has been, at least as we're working together is that you see a program, you build upon it, you find the strengths and weaknesses and then you set out on a mission as the general to make things better. And what I hear you saying is that, whether you were serving in the military or now helping individuals that need help the most, you're looking for ways to improve upon it, isn't it? Wouldn't that summarize you pretty well, at least as I know you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would probably put that into one quick phrase is continuous improvement. Everything is about continuous improvement and I felt that way. I think even with my kids and what they learned in school. Well, you only got a B plus. Well, that's great, that's good, but can we do better?
Speaker 1:So Well, I find that in your leadership and working with you Because again I'm honored to call your friend and all the great things you have done for our country. But I see it every day when we're chatting and working on again an employment for individuals that need help and I know that our time is running a little short, but another one of your biggest fans is Rachel. That has helped putting this together. I know she's on the other end of this, but she made sure that on my notes we would spend a few moments talking about the hotshot crew. Tell us about that, what. Jumping out of a plane to fight fires that is pretty impressive.
Speaker 2:Well, how much time we got. Give me a time, so I'll go in more.
Speaker 1:Can you take the time that you need General? Can you take the time?
Speaker 2:I had a job in high school where I was. I worked for a lumberyard and I was the local delivery guy. I mean I delivered lumber net construction sites, you know two by four, sheetrock, plywood, that kind of thing, and the secretary that worked in that lumberyard husband was the ranger for the district ranger. That was in Heber City, which I grew up in Wasatch County, which is on the back side of the Wasatch by Park City. Everybody's heard of Park City but Wasatch and remember we bought your train and took it to Boulder City.
Speaker 1:I remember the Heber-Griever, but please continue, then that goes into a story about riding the tracks.
Speaker 2:I will say that one for next time.
Speaker 1:I love that one. You ride the rail tracks with your car, whatever. Anyway, back to being a hot shop.
Speaker 2:So the lumberyard was owned by a hardware store and the lumberyard was a family business that two brothers had inherited from their father and they had a party in a ways. And so the Lumberyard guy moved to Richfield, utah, and they hired a general manager to come in and his thing was is, if you're not going to work full time, you're not gonna work here. So are you going to college or are you gonna work here? Well, to me that was a no brainer. I'm going to college. And that very day that he told me I wasn't going to be able to work anymore, I ran into the secretary that had left there previously, about a year before, and told her I lost my job. And she was with her husband and he says I've got a job with the Forest Service. Do you want it? You know, and I mean that was before you had to announce. You know you had to announce jobs and that so the next month.
Speaker 2:So I lost my job on Friday evening and started a new job on Monday morning with Forest Service, and I worked for probably about 10 days and there was a big fire up in Salmon, idaho, and they called all these forest districts to send whatever people they could send. So I got was one that was selected to go. I think they sent about 12 of us up to Salmon, idaho, and they'd all been seasoned Forest Service workers but I didn't know anything. You just showed up, yeah, and they were talking about you know, slags and all these different kind of McLeod tools and shovels I mean I knew what a shovel was but all these different firefighting flasky and things like that and that ended up getting me through college.
Speaker 2:I worked for six years for the Forest Service for the summers as a Forest Service employee and the biggest fire I went on was in Enet Wenatchee National Forest in Washington and I was gone through 17 days and it was pretty, you know, we'd sleep two or three hours every 24 hours. I mean it was rough but it was, you know. And then there was but there was, you know, there was. I've been on a number of fires that and then, but it got me through college and ended up being a good career for so.
Speaker 1:And a great platform for your rest of your public service. And you know, jenner, I appreciate you sharing your stories and you and millions of other men and women, especially within the era of the draft, making decisions that are best for you and your family, and we're proud of you for your years of service. So, here again, as we open, this is politics aside, and all as I ask is that everyone on the call puts politics aside today and takes a moment, as you have said, and recognize a veteran, or more than one, as we're now at that special time of the year, and I do believe it helps force a timeout in all the busy things that we do to recognize these folks. So, general, thank you, brigadier General Robert P Daniels, amazing history, amazing public service. So thank you very much.
Speaker 2:A general thing you'd like to say as we're concluding today I, in return, would like to express my appreciation to engage me on this. It's been a meaningful time for me to share my experiences and I appreciate that. Congressman and I just echo one more time find a veteran and thank them for their service and even start maybe a conversation and find out a little bit more about them and what they've done.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. You're in all of our best and thank you for your time General To my best again, to your family as well, and for your public service and their public service. All the best. Thank you for joining us. On Politics Aside, You're welcome.