To kick off 2024, Congressman Porter and Nathan Fiala spent some time with Tanya Skeen, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Acquisitions and a Navy veteran. Skeen masterfully unpacks the very real consequences funding stopgaps and Continuing Resolutions have on military readiness and shares with us her knowledge of the ties binding government fundings to the front lines of global conflict.
To kick off 2024, Congressman Porter and Nathan Fiala spent some time with Tanya Skeen, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Acquisitions and a Navy veteran. Skeen masterfully unpacks the very real consequences funding stopgaps and Continuing Resolutions have on military readiness and shares with us her knowledge of the ties binding government fundings to the front lines of global conflict.
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Speaker 1:Today we're going to continue on a few other conversations that we've had recently and that is how we're handling, as a nation, a number of the mounting threats against national security. Is there a lack of consistency in funding or direction by Congress or the administration when it comes to homeland security? And we're on the eve, of course again and happens every year of the Defense Appropriation Act and as we're moving into 24-25, but also the supplemental appropriation, which is the defense bill. So today we're going to talk a little bit about that with a very, very special guest. Tanya Skeen is with us and I'm going to be more formal here in a moment but also Nate Fiella with our team here at the Porta Group. But I'm so excited and I got to tell you, tanya, as we chatted a moment ago, your resume is incredible, and not only yours but that of your family.
Speaker 1:You had extensive experience working with the Department of Defense. You were Assistant Secretary of Defense for acquisitions. You were the Senior Executive Director for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program. You're currently the Senior Vice President of Strategy and Development at CACI. But, as Nate has shared with me, you're a Navy veteran yourself. Five children as well, all in the military or defense industry, plus your husband's involvement in that other, the Air Force. So I can imagine conversations between the Navy and Air Force. But this puts you in a very unique and very special part of American and security of the US, in that you're the.001% of families of having everyone involved in service. So I want to say thank you one for joining us, more importantly for your service and that of your family, and we're honored to have you with us today. So, before we get into some more questions, I guess, nate, why don't you tell us a little bit of what's happening on the Hill as you see it today?
Speaker 2:Sure, thank you, sir. So we're really talking about two separate things. The first thing we're talking about is the overall federal budget, specifically this conversation. We're going to be talking about the Defense Appropriation Act, but as the overall federal budget. The Senate today just voted on the continuing resolution to kick the federal budget for another deadline into March March 1st March and March 8th and then the House is expected to vote on the continuing resolution this afternoon around five. And then the second issue that we're going to be talking about is the $110 billion in the National Security Supplemental Appropriation Act, and that is essentially funding for Ukraine, israel, taiwan, but most importantly, it's funding for the Defense Industrial Base, and it's essential for us to revamp and continue on building up our Defense Industrial Base, which has really been underfunded in the last 30 or so years.
Speaker 2:Last night the senior leadership in Congress went over to the White House to discuss with President Biden the National Security Supplemental Act. There's broad support in Congress for this additional supplemental for Ukraine, taiwan and Israel. Speaker Johnson, who has said that there is broad support within his caucus, has specifically highlighted that the border issue is still his caucus' number one issue. So they have to find a way to pass the supplemental, but including border security funding. But to that I really want to get back to the Defense Industrial Base, ms Schene. So can you highlight to us the impact of a continuing resolution or, even worse, a shutdown to the Defense Industrial Base and to our national security?
Speaker 3:Sure, nate, thanks, and Congressman, thank you very much for inviting me to participate today. It's an honor to talk to your listeners. When we talk about a continuing resolution or a CR, it really has significant impacts on national security. Of course, in my former role I was an acquisition person. That means we buy stuff for the military when we have a continuing resolution. Basically all new projects that were set to begin last October are waiting until there is an appropriation, any changes that the military needed to be made back in October to adapt to a changing world over the last 12 months. Those projects are on hold. If you think about the things that have changed in 12 months the Hamas attacks on Israel, the Houthis threatening in the Red Sea. Of course we have the ongoing war in Ukraine and an ever-threatening China that is engaging every day in sort of a quiet way with our US military, but ever-threatening. And so all of those DOD acquisition professionals are legally bound to wait until there is an appropriation to move forward with the changes that we proposed all the way back in the President's budget in February. So you can imagine that's incredibly frustrating. But beyond just frustrating, it impacts our national security. There are also impacts to the defense industrial base. As you mentioned.
Speaker 3:You mentioned that I recently joined CACI. We make corporate investments in what we think the department needs and will ultimately procure, but there's only so much risk that Wall Street will accept that will allow us to keep investing ahead of an appropriation. So the defense industrial base generally puts major investments for the military on hold until there is a clear signal from Congress, and that clear signal is a budget appropriation. I know that your listeners understand how important it is that we generate a consistent high output production capacity in the US to deter China. A CR has the exact opposite effect. Every year there are delays in funding and production lines within our industrial base simply don't work with radical swings in fits and starts of funding. So a CR and worse, a shutdown, is incredibly disruptive, both in what we can deliver from the government side, but also to how industry can make investments and to continue to fund things on a planned, normal basis.
Speaker 1:Tony, I ended to follow up with that. We and I'm sure you hear from people that, well, you spend too much on defense, now why, what's put more at home, social programs or even education, and then, on top of that, you'll hear the other side say, well, we're running out of munitions, we're running out of equipment. Where are we really in all of this as far as spending, and what does the CR do to that perspective of if we don't have enough, I mean if we don't have enough equipment or we have too much? What does all that mean today?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So you know, if I look at just what we're spending as a percent of our GDP, for example, the current percent going towards defense is around 2.5%, 2.7% I think, and it's roughly been about 3.5% since the throughout the 2000s. So if we compare that, for example, during the Reagan administration it was 6% of GDP and in 1945, for example, is 40% of our GDP. So at roughly 2.5%, I would say that it really couldn't come at a worse time that we're spending that amount towards our national security. China, for example, is outspending and out developing us, and if we expect to deter them and, if necessary, defeat them, it is going to take more of our national treasure, and soon.
Speaker 3:Quite honestly, I think we all could take a lesson from COVID that we can't create stockpiles of weapon systems overnight. It was true of ventilators, it was true of masks, it was true of vaccines, and it's even more challenging when you're talking about high-tech defense systems to counter drone swarms or hypersonic weapons, which is what we're facing with an adversary like China. So now is really the time to show that we are serious and that China would be foolish to put us to the test. So, as a country, we show that commitment by frankly harnessing our best innovative minds, our American industrial horsepower and more of our national treasure on the problem to deliver that crystal clear message to those that threaten our security.
Speaker 1:I mean, it has to send mixed messages to the world when Congress is here bickering on different items. But the second part of that is do we have a shortage of equipment today, or is it more long term that we may have a problem if we don't invest today?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I would say that we've learned in Ukraine that mass has a quality all its own. If you look at the amount of equipment, the amount of munitions, for example, that have been expended in the Ukraine war, it's astronomical really. And so that mass and that learning that we've done throughout Ukraine, this is the first budget, honestly, that is informed by what's happened in Ukraine. So when I talk about having changes being put on hold, that budget was made last February. That budget was the first Ukraine-informed budget really, and so the shifts that we need to make to shore up our stockpiles, that is dependent upon that 24 budget being passed and appropriated.
Speaker 1:On that. How important is it and, politics aside, this is a professional question, not a political question but how important is it for the US from a strategic perspective to support Ukraine and Israel and what's happening in the Middle East today?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So look, since the first days of the Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the Department and really all of the federal government has pulled together to deliver capabilities, weapons systems, munitions, support equipment to Ukraine, and we've done that, frankly, at an all-out sprint pace. The Department has announced and the administration announced almost bi-weekly equipment that we were sending to Ukraine. And we do that because, if, if Ukraine cannot defend their sovereignty, it's really a question of where would Putin go next, and I think that that has to be taken very seriously, that we benefit by Ukraine winning this war or at least stopping Putin. We, the United States and our allies, benefit from that.
Speaker 3:In terms of Israel, I think you know we have also sent equipment to our very close ally in Israel, and we do that so that they can defend and prevent what happened on October 7th from ever happening again, and so we support them, we give them our equipment so that they can, they can keep peace in that region. You know there's been a swing towards not providing as much equipment or support in SENTCOM in favor of shifting our focus towards the Indo-Pacific, and that's spot-on. I wouldn't disagree with that. But what I would say is that if you ignore SENTCOM, you won't be able to focus on the Indo-Pacific, and that's really what we're seeing today is that when, when we take our attention off of certain parts of the world, they become our new hotspot and they they don't allow us to focus on China.
Speaker 1:So when we talk about support of our partners, israel and certainly the war in Ukraine, what does that mean and what is the DOD and what? I guess asking a question that, if you can answer with based upon your knowledge or what you can share, what are some of the things that the DOD is actually doing other than sending equipment?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I would. I would break it down from a few different ways. Let's break it down a little bit by the types of funding that we get, since we're talking about how important it is to fund what's going on in Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan. So if I look at Ukraine, for example, there's two basic pots of money that we have at our disposal. One of those is what we call Ukraine security assistance initiative, so USAI for short. That's money that we use as a country to, from industry, buy things that Ukraine requires. It's also investment money in our defense industrial base, as Nate was describing, to ramp up production Well, production that Ukraine needs, but also production that Taiwan needs, production that Israel needs, production that all of our allies in the US needs. So that's what that funding is as part of the, as part of a supplemental bill.
Speaker 3:The other pot of money is for US replenishment, and so the US has been the services have been drawing down their equipment, supplying it to the Ukraine, as I mentioned in those bi-weekly monthly packages, and we use the funding for replenishment to rebuild that stockpile, and so that is the focus of what we do in acquisition for Ukraine. We have also been doing a lot of training for Ukraine in how to use that equipment. It is in our best interest as the US to get them off of Russian equipment and using US equipment that is compatible with those in the region, as well as doing things like working with their industry, so that they can also ramp up production and take that, say, burden off of the rest of the globe. So it's really been a multi-pronged effort to support Ukraine not just with equipment but with training, with industrial support and with with tactics and things like that.
Speaker 1:And from that, I guess, homeland perspective, I think sometimes it's forgotten that those funds, many of those funds, are being spent around the country, with employment as well, correct?
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely. There's a great map actually on. The Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment has a wonderful map. We used to put this together in my old job in that office. And not quite as many states as builds the F-35 which was, I think, 48, but pretty doggone. Close to 48 states are really key in building this equipment again to resupply the US and then also to build new equipment and production capacity for our allies around the globe.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you. I think, Nate, you have a question regarding the helping Ukraine. Is that in get in the way of helping other Areas of the world? Was that one of you?
Speaker 2:So one of the questions I wanted to ask, ma'am, was so we're hearing from some members of Congress. They argue that helping Ukraine, giving Supplies to Ukraine, it takes away from our ability To help Taiwan defend themselves. Can you address that issue? Is that true?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great question and and I honestly can understand the thinking I was asked it several times when I had to testify in my old job, and the reality is that a good deal of the equipment that we need in the Indo-Pacific To defend Taiwan is different. It is different than what we need in Ukraine. Additionally, you know the Russian and and Chinese tactics and the way they do. Their concepts of operations for those two mission scenarios are very different, which then drives a Different con ops for the US military. So that helps. I will say that the equipment is not really the same in the two scenarios. In cases where there is overlap, there is some overlap of the munitions we actually put together. A multi-year procurement strategy is proposed in this FY24 budget and it's it's requesting on the order of 30 billion dollars to fund critical munitions as part of that overall budget and and and. That money would go towards some of those critical munitions. So think advanced air-to-air missiles or advanced Air-to-surface, our, our jazzym, our joint air-to-surface standoff missile, or our long-range air-to-ship missile, or anti-ship missile.
Speaker 3:Those are kind of critical munitions that really, no matter what scenario the US faces, those munitions are key and so improving the production capacity for those munitions, doing it as a multi-year Procurement, which is that nice stable funding that I mentioned, that production lines really like that, was the onus behind that initiative within the FY24 request.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to bring this all together and and to use some of the numbers that you you previously mentioned, now we we have an increase in threats to our national security.
Speaker 2:There's the war in Ukraine, there's there's the conflicts going on in in the Middle East, there's the conflicts in the Red Sea with the Houthis, there's the continuing line actor in China and the Indo-Pacific, and we have an increase in threats at the same time that we actually have one of the lowest expenditures towards the Department of Defense 2.7% right now.
Speaker 2:The last time that we had that was during the Clinton administration, during the peace dividend, and then prior to that was 1939, right before World War two, and, as you previously mentioned, in 1945, in order so you know, after, after Pearl Harbor, when we were kicked out of the East Pacific, we had to expend 40% of our GDP in order to get back into the Pacific, which it tells us that we really can't afford not to spend more on the Department of Defense, especially since, as you mentioned, 48 of 48 states are actively engaged in and producing the ammunition that were then Either restock piling or sending to Ukraine into Israel.
Speaker 2:But really, all you know, all 50 states in the territories and our, our allies are all Participating in our defense industrial base. It is a primary driver of our economy and the vast majority of members, members of Congress, know this, which is why the vast majority of Congress is pushing for one to pass a CR now, in the short term, so that we can then negotiate and pass a Total federal budget in March, but also Pass the the national security supplemental fund, so that we can we can invest in the defense industrial base when we can invest in in Ukraine, israel and and the Indo-Pacific.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. And if I just add to that a little bit, you know I had the opportunity to participate in building several budgets in my time as a government civilian both under your leadership.
Speaker 1:So what were those total amounts? Just so everyone understands the magnitude of just those budgets.
Speaker 3:Well, so.
Speaker 1:Zeroes is that.
Speaker 3:It's in the triple digit billions.
Speaker 2:Yes, this year it's $886 billion for the Defense Appropriation Act and $110 billion for the National Security Supplemental Act.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I saw I do mess with your trying to thought, but that's more zeroes than I can imagine.
Speaker 3:It's more zeroes than most of us can imagine and you know I'm a taxpayer. I do understand the concerns over the magnitude of those budgets. But the reality is, as Nate said, there is no more critical of a time to be investing in our defense industrial base and our defense capacity and capabilities. We really do face an incredible threat with China who, honestly, their industry is defense. That is what every part of their industry focuses on is their defense and, in some cases, their offense. We took a pause, I would say, with the peace dividend and really did not invest, and so now we're playing catch up in a lot of areas and it is just critically important. You mentioned that I have several kids in the military and I think I'm sure many of your listeners do as well, and we don't want them to face China without the right equipment, without the right weapons, and that just takes money, it just does.
Speaker 1:Well, can we talk about the direction? We've had some of your friends on the program in the past. Talk a bit about our strategy how it was in Afghanistan, how it was in Iran, how it is in Ukraine, how it will be, whether it's in the China world. Are we agile enough right now, the defense industry, in preparing for these different type of scenarios as far as equipment and training?
Speaker 3:Well, at the moment, I think, again, we are still playing catch up. If I think and focus on, is acquisition agile enough? Things like a CR really hurt us. Our ability to move and to make changes is very complicated, particularly in how drawn out it is to make and then execute a budget. I think what we've shown and we've proven to ourselves yet again, certainly in COVID, but also in what we've been able to do for Ukraine, is that the department can move quickly, and so can the industrial base.
Speaker 3:However, we can't create a stinger in zero days. If it takes two years to build a stinger missile, you got to start before you need the stinger missile, and so that's why it's so important to feed that industrial capacity that we need. As you mentioned, it's great for our economy as well, because the entire country is a participant in this increase in our industrial capacity our industrial engine of democracy, if you will and it really is about ensuring that we don't have to wait for the urgent, because we can't turn everything on a dime. So we can be agile, but we still can't create a stinger in zero days.
Speaker 1:We have just a few more moments, but I do have a couple of questions with Nate. Is there something else you'd like to ask at this point?
Speaker 2:Well. So the one interesting thing that I'd like to go a little bit further deeper into. You know you made a very good point, and that is that we can't just turn it on a dime. You have to build up the defense industrial base now so that the supply chains are there, the skilled workforces there. You know the systems are all there, and that's something that I don't think a lot of people fully appreciate is that the industrial base which is, it's all around us in this country. They don't fully appreciate that In the 1980s there were three million workers, three million plus workers, that were working the industrial base. Now we have roughly a million. But, meskeen, we actually saw that workforce shrink during COVID, didn't we? Can you talk a little bit about the workforce within the Defense Industrial Base?
Speaker 3:Sure, that's a great point and I know it's one that we were focused quite heavily on in the department. It's one that the industrial base, the defense industrial base, faces all the time, that we need to continue to motivate people to become a part of that defense industrial base. We were talking earlier that my one son, who is not in the military, works for a defense contractor and so he's part of the defense industrial base. He's a great coder, even if I have to say so myself as his mom, and he could go be working for a Google, a Facebook, those sorts of companies, and we need people to do that as well.
Speaker 3:But the defense industrial base, I will say I like to say it's a higher purpose in some respects. It is about instilling that patriotism and that real need to do something important for our national security. And there's a lot of programs that the department has put into place to try to bring the workforce in sooner, introduce folks from all socioeconomic parts, to bring them into the defense world, whether it's in industry or whether it's in the government, and those programs are so critically important and I just I can't say enough about how important it is that that be just part of our culture, honestly, as Americans, that we encourage that participation Because, again, I think we are going to face some real critical adversaries over at least the next decade and without that workforce we can't do it all with AI, I assure you.
Speaker 1:Patanya, we chatted a little bit before the program. As you know, a real passion for us and I know for you, is helping individual with disabilities, and department of defense and under your department, have played a big role helping with the ability one programs through community based non-profit. I just want to say thank you for all you've done to help individuals that need help and, as you know, at the Porta Group we're an extension, I believe, of public servants. So all of us, most of us here, in some shape or form have been, have served their community and the country. But I want to say thank you for that extra things that you've done serving individual with disabilities and, if you maybe have insight when it comes to workforce, what role those individuals that need help the most can help the department of defense.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. That's why the ability one program is just so phenomenal. They bring those with disabilities in to work in many ways, certainly every day in the Pentagon. They are there and they are dedicated workers and it is an honor and a privilege to be a part of that program. I think it has only grown, frankly, and it's grown because it's tremendously successful. It's successful for those that hire those people and it's successful for the individuals as well, and I just. It's the epitome of what a program should look like and it makes an actual difference in our national security. We need those folks every day to support what we're doing.
Speaker 1:Well and again I thank you, and you know Nate has shared with me through the years all the great things that you've done to help those individuals that need help and we want to continue that and hope to have additional conversations. Before we go, I want to talk a bit about your family. You know we talked about five children somehow in the military and the defense world and, of course, your husband and yourself having served, what do you talk about at the dinner table at night? You've given your whole family's, given their life and sold to public service. But tell me from a mom perspective, what do you talk about?
Speaker 3:Well, we talk a lot about the day's events, so our kids have have learned a lot about weapon systems from a very young age. They do know. My daughter is hopefully she won't kill me, but she's at the Air Force Academy and so going through the challenges of that program and she, she asks me all the time about what, what should she do in the Air Force? And but she knows the right answer is to fly F-35s. So any other answer she knows she's voting me. But they, they, you know they've learned that the sacrifice has meaning.
Speaker 3:Right, my oldest is a is a pilot. He went to five schools by fifth grade and when he told us he wanted to join the Naval Academy, we said, ok, are you sure? And because he lived it right, the kids have lived, they know what the sacrifice means, and so we talk about that. Just as you said, we talk about a life of service and how important it is to defend this country in whatever you do and to serve this country however, however you choose to do it, and so I think that's working. They seem successful.
Speaker 1:So what advice would you give other moms and dads with their children? What would you suggest that they how they talk to their loved ones about this public service?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you know, I think that I think that talking about service as a higher cause and whatever you choose to do for a career is important, and I do think that talking about the, the importance of defending our country and what that means, the fact that freedom is not free, that it takes people to dedicate their time and part of their lives to that mission and to be open to it. I think that, as we see with all of the services, are struggling to recruit right now, and it's important that parents, who are really huge influencers on our kids, even when we don't think that they listen to us, to be open to a life in the military, a life in as a career civil servant. There's many, many ways to serve and I just think that having some of those conversations and letting your kids know that you'd be okay with that is important.
Speaker 1:Well, I can imagine the late nights, early mornings and certainly middle of the night, concerns with your family and your friends and loved one that are serving the country, and your message is so strong to share, even with the challenges I'm sure you faced, again especially worrying, for 24 hours a day. I mean, it is really incredible, and for you to spend time with us today to talk about some of the things that are important to you and some of your perspectives is really invaluable, and I just want to say thanks again. We're proud of you, we're proud of your family and know that you set an example for all of us, and proud to call you friends. So, thank you, tonya, we appreciate it, and thank you, nate, for joining us as well, and with that we'll close this session. Politics aside, thank you for joining us and for being a part of this very important conversation. Thank you, thank you, thank you.