Matt Fradd and Voice of Reason Excommunicate Everyone

Liturgical tensions within Catholicism take center stage as we dissect a revealing conversation between Matt Fradd and Voice of Reason about traditionalism, Vatican II, and ecclesiastical authority.

The discussion begins with a startling proposition: what if content creators like Taylor Marshall were required to make a public profession of faith affirming Vatican II or face excommunication? This authoritarian fantasy reveals much about how certain Catholic voices view traditionalists—not as faithful Catholics seeking reverent worship, but as rebellious figures requiring discipline.

What makes this conversation truly fascinating is its contradictions. Both commentators have sought refuge in Eastern rites to escape problematic Novus Ordo liturgies, yet criticize traditionalists for essentially doing the same thing. Even more remarkably, after insisting traditionalists must accept all post-conciliar reforms, they admit that certain changes—like turning the priest to face the people—were "clearly a mistake."

This episode delves into why traditional Catholics feel their spiritual birthright was stolen and how this explains their frustration. We examine the reality of Latin Mass communities versus the stereotypes often portrayed in Catholic media, and why influential Catholic voices seem reluctant to engage directly with traditionalists.

The heart of this discussion isn't about who's right or wrong, but about recognizing our shared Catholic identity beyond liturgical preferences. Whether you attend a Latin Mass, Byzantine liturgy, or reverent Novus Ordo, we're all seeking authentic worship that brings us closer to Christ.

Could the solution to our divisions be as simple as honest conversation? Perhaps it's time for influential Catholic voices to stop talking about traditionalists and start talking with them.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Beckett Excommunication Intro
• 3:22 Nick Joins The Show
• 11:08 Criticizing Voice of Reason and Matt Fradd
• 33:44 Let The TLM Have Novus Ordo Lectionary?
• 50:02 Trad's Dirty Secret Video Discussion
• 1:07:27 Excommunicating Public Figures

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:10

We declare him excommunicate and anathema. We cast him into the outer darkness. We judge him damned with the devil and his fallen angels and all the reprobate to eternal fire and everlasting pain the longer I looked at that, the better it got that was peak rob.

Speaker 3: 1:39

That was no, it wasn't me that is all taffy that was fresh for me seeing it.

Speaker 4: 1:47

I did not know that was coming. I had no idea. Wow, taffy has outdone himself. Whose idea was that? Yours or taffy's?

Speaker 2: 1:56

that was me. I'm like could you put voice of reason or matt frad's face on beckett the beckett excommunication oh my gosh, what a he said he first tried voice of reason's face with a sylvester stallone voice, but didn't work so well holy cow.

Speaker 4: 2:12

That is too freaking funny. Look who's back. Oh boy, he's back we got everyone's excited so it's not just that nick, nick that Nick the Child became a man. Yesterday he turned 27 years old man. How was your birthday?

Speaker 3: 2:28

I was honestly pretty chill. I think I know I'm getting old because I spent half the day feeling like slightly sick and taking a nap, so that was most of my birthday, when you hit 30, the gray starts coming in.

Speaker 4: 2:40

That's when you're like, oh my gosh, what's going on here? The gray starts coming in. That's when you're like, oh my gosh, what's coming on here? Oh my, the gray is coming in. So, all right, we got a lot of stuff to cover tonight and the reason nick stopped coming on our show so much is because we were doing so much gossip and nick was scheduled to come on the show. And and then I'm like nick, are you gonna be okay with, like, nick's not really a participant in this. He did not want to do this. This is 100 me, me, my idea. I determine what we talk about. Nick did not have anything to do with this. Rob has no choice ever to do anything but what I say.

Speaker 2: 3:12

I take full responsibility for this show though, to be fair, once I saw the clip you sent, I was like, oh yeah, we're going at it now, that's, that's, now, that is.

Speaker 4: 3:22

What do you call that? My brain blanks when I'm doing this show sometimes. Caveat, it's caveat number one. Caveat number two is just because we are going to comment on Matt Fradd and Voice of Reason does not mean we don't like Matt Fradd or Voice of Reason. We are not trying to humiliate them.

Speaker 2: 3:47

I'm pretty sure, I do not like Voice of Reason, I don't know him at all.

Speaker 4: 3:52

I have no relationship with him whatsoever. But I'm not telling people they can't like Matt Fradd, that's not what I'm doing here. We're going to criticize things that they spoke about. Now, the other thing is that I'm sure Matt's going to watch this and I hope he laughs at the intro. It's also okay not to like people. Yeah, that is true, but I do like Matt. But there's another angle to this in that, uh, he hasn't had us on and the beatings will continue because you haven't had us on it's like you could have had us on.

Speaker 2: 4:36

You chose voice of reason instead, and now we're going to abuse you and this is saying about it uh, it's easier to attract bees with honey or something like that no, no, anthony goes to the stick right away.

Speaker 4: 4:47

No, no to me. It's like, it's more like I'm much better as your friend than your enemy.

Speaker 3: 4:54

And this of the bronx tale. He's just like yeah, you work you work for me. I won't get you. You get my way. I offered you a job. I will beat you. I will live in this hand.

Speaker 4: 5:05

Look, it's like this. It's like having us on earlier would have been like protection money, and then, if anybody would have made a comment about Matt Fradd, they would have had to, I would have jumped down their throat. But now, now the problems, come your way.

Speaker 2: 5:21

You know, back when we were just 1,000, 2,000 subs, they didn't want to have us on because they didn't want you to get big. You'd be a problem then. Well, now you got big without them having you on, so you're even more of a problem.

Speaker 4: 5:35

And the other thing is look, you're not going to have voice of reason on. Make a whole bunch of comments about trads and then when we go and have a, have something to say about it, we're the bad guy like. That's just not how this works well that you had them on.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Always works with trads, though I don't really care.

Speaker 4: 5:50

You guys had you guys wanted to discuss this, you had a little fantasy about excommunicating taylor marshall, you know. Oh, if I was pope I'd burn all the trads at the stake. I, I get it. I get it, but we're going to have a couple things to say about this. That's all I'm saying. So those are my caveats. Nicholas, come on.

Speaker 2: 6:09

Having AB on is like having your drunk uncle on yes.

Speaker 4: 6:15

Well, I heard somebody. All right, so we're going to get to a bunch of stuff.

Speaker 2: 6:18

We actually have a of uh anthony's uh grandma with uh one of anthony's nephews yeah, let's, let's see this video, let's see that.

Speaker 4: 6:27

Let me pull it up here. Let's see, you should play the real one first no, no, no.

Speaker 2: 6:32

We need to show them the video of your family. Here we go.

Speaker 3: 6:42

Here we go. Yo guys, we're at Nonna Gracie's house right now. Just made fresh pasta and meatballs. Let's get ready to try. Unbelievable.

Speaker 4: 6:55

Oh wow, you like the meatballs and pasta. Oh my God, it's beautiful, anthony, I was coming any time to have my meatball and pasta.

Speaker 3: 7:06

That was so bad. Turn it off. That's homosexual propaganda, right.

Speaker 4: 7:12

Disturbing that was. You know what else I realized the other day. We had the Lore Lodge guy on, we had Aiden on and our comments lambasted us and excoriated us. They did, for that is that, whatever the word is, and I didn't take it as they didn't like us, it's like they were not happy with the interview we did, so they were like lambasting us in the comments and it's just like all right, you know, I deserved it, I guess someone literally said uh, curses be upon you and your children.

Speaker 4: 7:44

So we had a free basin on oh brother, um, so, uh, yeah, we're gonna get into some of this. So I I got three uh clips, essentially. So the reason we came on early tonight is because I have to work, uh, basically not in a night shift, but I have to. I have to leave my house at 2 am, so there's not going to be a local show tonight, but we didn't want to cancel the show totally. Plus, it's the Feast of Corpus Christi and Nick is going to try and make it to Mass.

Speaker 2: 8:09

I don't know this Hortoland, it's not.

Speaker 4: 8:12

Yeah, well, not on Thursday at least, right it would be beautiful.

Speaker 3: 8:18

It's actually like probably 40 feet from where I'm at and it's going to be a completely nice like sung mass Corpus Christi with processions, so pretty nice.

Speaker 4: 8:27

Novus Ordo doesn't have Corpus Christi today. They have a Juneteenth liturgy. That's so true, that will be a holy day of obligation.

Speaker 3: 8:35

We got it in our diocese. Our diocese put out today in Spanish, celebrating diversity and inclusion, celebrating Juneteenth, the beauty of the human creation, yada, yada, yada. I'm like. You know, half of your biggest donors in our diocese are in mass in a hall because they're not allowed to be inside of a church. Why are we prioritizing this weird, woke nonsense?

Speaker 4: 8:59

It is what it is, but like weird woke nonsense is what it is. But the detroit archdiocese today put out a statement about juneteenth and next week latin masses get canceled in that diocese, exactly like that's completely insane. Um, I did not hear this, uh, I did not see this. So it says can you comment on connor gallagher complaining to father murray that the SSPX has more rights to offer the TLM than we do? It's not fair. I did not see that, so I don't. Really there's not much I can comment on that.

Speaker 2: 9:28

And then somebody, before the show even started, said To be fair, they have more rights because they didn't give them up.

Speaker 4: 9:37

Then somebody said there was a. There is new credible forensic evidence that Sister Lucy was replaced. Face and handwriting belongs to two individuals. It'd be interesting to hear doctor Good luck pronouncing that name Present the evidence on your channel. Ok, we'll check into that. But thank you, and that's 10 euros.

Speaker 3: 9:58

Oh, that's like 50. Sister Lucia, I gotta admit. Admit is what it is.

Speaker 2: 10:03

So remember when someone gave us a hundred of like argentinian dollars or whatever it was and we were so excited. It was like it was like 14 cents.

Speaker 4: 10:12

Uh, how about matt and voice dreaming up a new liturgy while they go? So let's get into it all right. So here's, here's the let's get all right. Let just play the first clip and we'll go from there, because there's plenty to say. We got three clips, essentially.

Speaker 2: 10:25

After we got our USAID money back, we were able to rehire Nick.

Speaker 4: 10:31

So a couple more caveats real quick is that these are just clips. If you want to see the full context, you guys have to go and watch the interview yourself, but you know they deserve to. Guys have to go and watch the interview yourself, but, uh, you know they deserve to be uh commented on. When I watch, I I went through the interview. I didn't watch the whole thing. I went through, like, the titles of the different segments and I picked a couple of segments that I knew would be a little bit spicy and I kind of just clipped those. So I didn't some clips that I didn't post on twitter today too. So we're gonna play two that I posted on twitter and then one that I didn't post because I wanted to save some some fresh stuff for you guys on here. So let's uh, let's get to it. Number one which one uh, the first one.

Speaker 4: 11:08

I sent them in three in order.

Speaker 5: 11:10

Okay, just started number one that's see like that and I'm not saying it's not okay, it just sometimes feels like we're part of different churches. So the the readings right. I don't think a dyed in the wool trad would be open to this, but I'd like them at least to entertain the possibility that for the traditional latin mass to continue, it would need to incorporate the new calendar and the new readings.

Speaker 6: 11:41

Yes, that's exactly what I said when I was with Michael Lofton. I said I would keep the TLM then with the option to do it in the vernacular if people want it in the vernacular, but you could also, you know, Latin would be essential for certain parts. The TLM with the Novus Ordo lectionary and the Novus Ordo calendar, and I feel like that's a good way to kind of make everybody happy.

Speaker 5: 12:06

I think you'd piss everybody off, you wouldn't piss the novus auto off and you'd you'd be open to yeah. But you know that's what's so difficult when you start identifying as trad and you really ensconce yourself. In that corner there's nothing that will actually yeah, that's what I would do yeah, and I think so yeah, I like that that's what I would excommunicate all of the.

Speaker 4: 12:21

And I would excommunicate and the next clip is going to pick up right from that and then I would excommunicate everybody.

Speaker 2: 12:25

He can't even speak in the vernacular. Why does he want his mass in the vernacular?

Speaker 4: 12:29

So, alright, a couple things about this clip Now. We all know my biggest problem with Alex Urado whatever the hell his name is is that you're a freaking Mexican bro, like you're a Mexican Novus Ordo Catholic.

Speaker 2: 12:45

You have some freaking nerve, honestly you only ended up in the Eastern liturgy because you're a cowardly.

Speaker 4: 12:52

Novus Ordo Bishop canceled your mass, so now you go to the East, along with guys like Michael Lofton and Fred, to Fred to now, I don't. I don't know if Fred still goes to a Byzantine liturgy, because to the East, along with guys like Michael Lofton and frat too. Frat too, now I don't. I don't know if frat still goes to a Byzantine liturgy, cause he's in Austria right now and I'm sure there's no Byzantine right down there. He's probably stuck at some crappy or sharing Nova Zordo. But, um, so somebody said today they were like uh, matt should have to go to some terrible Nova Zordo liturgy so that he fully understands the trad argument. And I said, no, actually he should go to a Latin mass for six months is what he should do, because it's.

Speaker 4: 13:30

It's really annoying to listen to people who don't actually have any insight into the traditional Latin mass and the people who actually attend it sit here and make comments on the Tradosphere or what they can, what they perceive as the Tradosphere. It's like because the clip we're going to play later is really ironic, because the two of them sit there and they complain about all the things that trads complain about. So it's like they have all these complaints about the trads because the trads are this and the trads are that. And then they go on. Because Alex had, matt asked him if you were Pope, what would you do? And I should wait for that clip. But it just, it just seemed completely insane to me that two guys who escaped to the east which I don't have a problem with, I've said this before Like my friend, bobby goes, goes to a business in litururgy, but he goes to escape the novus ordo because he doesn't want to sit at some cringe. Novus ordo and the latin mass is four hours away from him.

Speaker 2: 14:27

Is bobby a convert?

Speaker 4: 14:29

no cradle bobby's a cradle catholic, so he's a cradle novus ordo, but he, he could not handle the novus ordo and because the average novus Ordo is a nightmare. But the caricature that they have created of trads and of the SSPX, and it's like they treat anybody who loves the Latin mass as if they're a set of a contest. I think the East is safe from liturgical reform. Just ask the Chaldeans what happened to their liturgy. Oh, if he thinks, but no, aside from that, okay, I'll let you go, nick. Just one more thing he says things, but no, aside from that, okay, I'll let you go, nick. Just one more thing he says it feels like we're in two churches and I think the the, the 1962 missile, should actually have the new readings and the new calendar. Now I I think most trads would be open to adding feast days for saints after 1962 calendar should be updated, updated right to right, to add, like Padre Pio, and to add saints who passed after 1962.

Speaker 2: 15:27

But to say the lectionary should be shared is beyond ironic when they say that for the TLM to survive it needs the new calendar and new lectionary. Then, by extension, why, for the Byzantine liturgy to survive, why does it not also need a new uh lectionary? Because the byzantine lectionary is far more similar to the tlm lectionary than it is to the novus ordo.

Speaker 4: 15:51

So if the tlm needs it sorry the byzantine lectionary needs to be updated too well, the point is if you're at a byzantine liturgy that's in communion with rome, do you feel like it's two different churches? It is.

Speaker 2: 16:03

Technically it is 100%. There's 24 churches all in communion under Rome, and the Latin church accounts for over 98% of Catholics. So it's funny to me that the small group of less than 2% headed by people that aren't even technically part of their church right yeah, because they're both Latin Catholics but yet this 2% part of the church is so against the other 2% part of the church with the TLM it's just funny, funny.

Speaker 4: 16:46

they're actually like they're novus ordoizing the byzantine right, because that's the, that's the, that's the heritage they have, and they're going there and they're bringing their pipes and their cigars and they're telling everybody about chesterton and I'm stealing this sweet and aquinas and and the byzantines are like we don't want this stuff. They come there with last names like Frat and Jurado. It's like Most Byzantine name ever, jurado. I think maybe we should just make the Latin mass a separate right, which is what Francis did ironically.

Speaker 2: 17:17

I think that Novus Ordo should be a separate right.

Speaker 4: 17:20

But that's what I mean. But it should be a distinct right A. That's what I mean. It should be a distinct right.

Speaker 2: 17:23

A Roman right, or whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 3: 17:26

The issue that I'm seeing again is it's like every I was literally talking about this with people five minutes ago Every single criticism I see of traditionalists on YouTube doesn't actually address what traditionalists have been saying. That's the problem. It never does. It's always these really weird caricatures. So just like as an example, like I'll just say this people get this down. Perpetuatory sacrifice, sacerdotal priesthood, real presence, communion that threefold criticism of the new mass has never been addressed, that criticism that was leveled at the foot of John Paul II by the SSPX, the problem of the surgical form. It's never been addressed to this day. It's such a sharp critique and it can't be addressed. But I would also say recognize that the Latin Mass isn't going to go away and we don't have to worry about it dying off, because there's 196 seminarians in the whole of Germany, for the whole country of Germany, and there's 200 members of the European Fr fraternity of St Peter's seminary.

Speaker 3: 18:23

So it's like you're what it is is. There's a lot of these American Catholic influencers who have the privilege of having reverent liturgies, who need to go to Mexico, need to go to Africa, need to go to Europe and recognize everything is not Steubenville, that's just the reality.

Speaker 4: 18:39

Yeah, okay, so also this like Matt has literally had one of the diamond brothers on to debate set of accountism with with, uh, jeff castman, right, um for, but he can't, just so like he keeps having these relatively normie catholics on right.

Speaker 4: 18:59

I mean he'll have amber rose on now he's having voice of reason on, next he'll have cameron reicher on. Like this, this is, this is what he does, and every one of them come on and they criticize traditionalism and the problems in traditionalism, but he's never had like a conversation with like just a normal trad who's like, just like a regular, everyday going latin mass catholic who's just like hey, why, when do you actually hear it from the guys that go? Go and see what these guys are actually like at their parishes and not make this caricature up of because you see a couple of content creators on YouTube that you aren't particularly crazy about. It's like I mean, we watched these clips of Alex going around where he's talking about Taylor Marshall will let we'll turn you into a set of a contest why taylor marshall is literally like the most pro pope leo guy out there right now.

Speaker 3: 19:52

So what is he even talking about? My parents are considering converting right now. It's like slight update about my parents. It's like they're getting closer and closer to conversion. They're watching taylor marshall, they're watching all this kind of interesting cool stuff. What? What it is is the reason a lot of these guys again, I don't know why they won't have them on, but I would encourage them, matt. It's like if you're going to watch this, check me out. Listen, just have an SSPX priest on If you're going to be the quote Joe Rogan of Catholicism. Joe Rogan has people from all over the board, every people, from guys who are out in the middle of the desert thinking they saw aliens to like holy men. So it's like he has all kinds of people. Have an actual, rational spx priest on and have a good.

Speaker 2: 20:28

If manfred can have a priest on who thinks that you know you're committing grave sin if you don't support the modern state of israel, then I think you can have an sspx priest on too exactly it should.

Speaker 3: 20:38

it's not that controversial and and honestly it's like here's, here's the thing. If we're going to say, if you're going to say let's push forward the theology of Aquinas, I'll tell you two things. One, you'll not get a better representative of the theology of Aquinas than an SSPX priest who's devoted his life to the study of St Thomas. But then, number two, let's be honest at the end of the day, if you're wanting to steel man opposition and you guys are kind of, you know, let's say disdaining trads in some form consider actually steelmaning their position and having one of them on, have them on with another guy, you know, have a debate of some kind, all right.

Speaker 4: 21:08

So there's a couple of comments in here. I hope I don't know. Kennedy, if you want this red, I'm gonna read it. Brad is getting old. His cute accent and smile made him famous when he was the porn guy, but now he has new things over and over to stay as. Now he has the new things over and over to stay relevant. Um, yeah, like, like, um I I I also think that, um, it's.

Speaker 4: 21:33

It's just kind of getting cliche at this point, like, like, like matt had michael lofton on because michael lofton was defending francis and then michael lofton said some things about Matt's friends and Matt Fratton started watching our show when we criticized Lofton and it was like it was cool when we criticized Lofton, but now we're criticizing some of the people. That it's like it's look, we're all in this space and if somebody is going to criticize stuff that we do, they're going to like if we say stuff publicly, you're going to get criticized. They're gonna like if we say stuff publicly, you're gonna get criticized. It doesn't mean we're trashing somebody. I'm not like it's just. It's just, you said some stuff and we have to address it like that's all it is. So let's play the second clip and let's go through that one.

Speaker 4: 22:11

I feel like we're about to bust a cap here with this one look, no, I'm gonna say something else though, because it's also a bit of fraternal correction, it's like a loving correction to our brother. It's like come on, dude, stop, stop, stop with these little jabs and digs, because because they've been happening, especially when you come out with videos criticizing others for it, like trent will.

Speaker 2: 22:35

Trent will come out with a video saying you know, telling people to be charitable, and then he'll go off saying trads have a hidden porn problem.

Speaker 4: 22:43

Dude that is a flipping black Trent video Dude.

Speaker 3: 22:50

I think he realized he really gravely messed up because he put that massive comment pinned comment below his video. That was like I'm not saying that because you're trad, that you have a porn problem and I'm like, dude, here's a, here's a bit of fraternal correction.

Speaker 2: 23:07

Learn optics, learn some optics, because this looks horrible, never mind I was gonna have a comment about trans optics, but I'm gonna never mind no, no, because, because here's what happened.

Speaker 4: 23:19

I'm not like, the substance of the video wasn't even that bad, but the title and thumbnail were so bombastic.

Speaker 3: 23:29

Trad's dirty little secret just like what the heck like dude these are the most holy people that you can meet. Like what are you?

Speaker 2: 23:36

this is coming from anthony, who constantly tells me no, you got to do something more with that thumbnail.

Speaker 4: 23:43

Today. I go Matt, I go Rob. I said I'm sorry we're discussing this. I say be as bombastic as you have to the thumbnail, I don't care. I understand he's going to get upset about this, but no, this is a fraternal correction, like even with Trent. Trent, you, you can't title a video, trent, you can't title a video Tread's Dirty Little Secret. Because, first off, yes, father Ripperger did come out and say, look, I'm hearing this in the confessional constantly. Like young men are and they're using the confessional as a revolving door for this sin, right. But there's another aspect of that where, yes, they are, but that means these men are trying to get it out of their life, right. So they're going to confession because they're trying to root it out of their life. Now they might be in a spot where they haven't conquered it yet and they are repeatedly going over it. And it is because trads can be prideful and lust is derivative of pride, and Mr C has a good point.

Speaker 2: 24:37

Ritter was talking to trads about trads. Trent was talking to the rest of the Catholic world about trads. That's gossip.

Speaker 4: 24:45

Yeah, it's more than gossip. It was intentionally done to be controversial. So all of my comments about it I was actually doing for Trent exactly what he was hoping would happen. So I was blasting it out on Twitter a bit and making comments about it, but I was actually doing the exact thing he was hoping would happen. So, like I you know, I was blasting it out on Twitter a bit and making comments about it, but I was actually doing the exact thing he was hoping would happen, because you're hoping it causes controversy, you're hoping people talk about it and that's exactly what Matt was doing in this voice of reason conversation. Like you're hoping, you're cutting up clips and putting these clips out on the internet, hoping that it's generally controversy and it don't get clicked.

Speaker 4: 25:22

I hope they don't get mad about our video because we're just giving them exactly what he wants exactly what you wanted, like this is you would have cut those portions out of the interview if you didn't want them to be talked about. Like there's nothing more beneficial to a content creator than when somebody else criticizes a segment of their show. I don't know why nobody ever criticizes our damn show. Can you guys cut some clips?

Speaker 3: 25:47

up. You're going to hell, anthony, because you've called law and gay.

Speaker 2: 25:50

That's the only time all we're going to get is taffy clip, you know, clipping it and putting other faces on it what if you made a video about conversos and said I'm not talking about anyone in particular?

Speaker 4: 26:01

even if you't, the insinuation would be there. Well, I mean, the conversos were on stream together the other day, weren't they? Wasn't he on Ben Shapiro's show? Just a joke, trent and Ben Shapiro.

Speaker 2: 26:15

Was Trent on with Ben Shapiro he was on Ben Shapiro's show.

Speaker 4: 26:18

I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2: 26:19

Settle down everybody, it's just a joke that is quite the stopping point, by the way launch yourself in that corner.

Speaker 6: 26:37

There's nothing that will actually yeah, that's what I would do yeah, I think so, yeah, I like that, and then I would excommunicate all of the public figures that dissent from the teachings of the church that I'll be out.

Speaker 6: 26:49

Discipline the rad trads that you know. Not excommunicate them, but discipline them and say, hey, like I would have all of the the catholic content creators, I would say that they need to make the profession of faith on their channels and platforms, the profession of faith from vatican ii. They need to say that vatican ii was an ecumenical council, that it's authoritative and that all of the popes from Vatican II onward have been valid popes. And then we can just continue as normal and you can keep sharing the traditional Catholic faith, but we've got to make sure that we have these housekeeping things in order.

Speaker 5: 27:24

Alright. So let's say, you make this statement and Taylor Marshall comes on and says, respectfully, Holy statement. And taylor marshall comes on and says, respectfully, holy father, I cannot I cannot affirm this.

Speaker 6: 27:34

But what do you do as the pope? Then I would say oh well, look, if you look at, uh, this canon, uh, this canon of the catholic church, you have just automatically excommunicated yourself. And I would say I would tell them repent. And if you don't, then I will have to modify this automatic excommunication. Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 4: 27:54

Pause it. This is a long one. Um, I have been watching taylor marshall for many years. Never have I ever heard taylor marshall say the second vatican council was an invalid council. Never have I heard him say uh, pope paul vi, john paul ii, benedict francis was not a valid pope. Never, never, once have I heard him say anything like that. I've never heard any catholic content creator say that that is not a set of accountants. I've heard set of accountants say that, but those people do not care if you excommunicate them no, because they don't see this valid yeah, because one could already argue that they are excommunicated in some form of fashion.

Speaker 3: 28:32

But the point what's so bad about this? Kennedy brought this up the other day so much of what like where the disputes come in with vatican ii, they're disputed questions that unfortunately not getting answered. And here would be my charitable criticism to alex why is it that you focus so much on the trads like Like? These are some of the most loyal sons of the church.

Speaker 3: 28:51

If the council is in fact so clear and so wonderful as you make it is which again, I believe it's a valid ecumenical council then this is what you need to do Go and condemn the heretics who are using the council as justification to overthrow the entire Catholic faith. Because, like the video I did yesterday over the church that's in Syracuse, all saints parish, yesterday over the church that's in Syracuse, all Saints Parish, that's having gay weddings and gay masses and all that kind of stuff, the front page says in the spirit of Vatican II, we do this. So get outside of your JP2 conservative bubble and recognize that people are using the council to push like to damn people to hell. It's not the trad who's like yo. We need to actually get our act together.

Speaker 4: 29:28

It's not just that like, like bringing up that, okay, no sure, a Tete is a bit confusing. Bringing up that Lumen Gentium is a bit confusing. I mean, we just watched Tim Gordon debate Jay Dyer and Jay Dyer was shoving statements from Vatican two in Tim Gordon's face about what the church views Islam as. So these statements come from Vatican two. The church should have been more clear in what it was saying.

Speaker 4: 29:54

I'm sorry, you're allowed to hold that opinion. It doesn't mean you're saying the council is invalid. I'm sorry, but do not tell me that Muslims worship the same God as us. Do not tell me the Jews worship the same God as us. They do not. Yeah. And if I think that does that put me out of communion with rome? Because if you look at the hierarchy today, they will all tell you about human fraternity and how we need ecumenical outreach with jews and muslims because they also are part of the church. I mean, I've seen things like this in my kids catechism lessons that I had to pull my kids out of their catechism lessons because there is clearly error being taught by the hierarchy. Now, that's not because it's declarative from Vatican II, it's because Vatican II is so vague that people are making it into that and most people are interpreting it that way, which means there needs to be a clarification.

Speaker 2: 30:45

I just think it's ironic that you have Alex there saying that you know people who dissent from Vatican II should be excommunicated, when he seems to dissent from Vatican II and Vatican II says we should retain Latin and he says everything should be in the vernacular.

Speaker 4: 31:01

Yeah, you might be strawmanning him. I don't know if he's 100%, but that's because he does it. I don't think we need to strawman him is the point, though, we actually don't Take him at face value.

Speaker 3: 31:11

No, yeah, I mean, here's the thing. Vatican II is opened by John XXIII, who very clearly states that we don't need to be a teacher, a teaching church. That's basically slamming the ruler down on the kid's knuckles all the time. We need to be a listening church. But here's the problem. It's like we on with this for so long that your average Catholic, aside from just not knowing any of their faith, believes in stuff that's actually objectively heretical. If your big worry is you see sedes in a YouTube comment section who get on your nerve, okay, we'll just deal with it, but bring some good, rational Orthodox trads on and have some good discussions about it. Like, I mean, realistically, do you think Taylor Marshallall and voice of reason, when it comes to the dogmas of faith, have any disagreement? It's like no, they don't have any disagreement. Both of them would say we affirm everything that the catholic church should teach. Okay, so then why are we debating this? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4: 32:03

it just it's just, it's wasting time yeah, uh, play, play the rest of this clip because they'd say some more in there. And then the last clip is just so unbelievably ironic you guys are going to laugh. All of the things that they're saying now make the last clip just so insane.

Speaker 5: 32:21

How many times are you going to put?

Speaker 4: 32:22

this comment up, Grover we saw the first seven times you put it up. I did not run away from anything, either one of them. I'm doing a show with them in a a week or two.

Speaker 2: 32:32

we'll figure it out can we just, can we just ban grover and be done?

Speaker 5: 32:36

no, I like grover say election in the us, there's been more seriousness placed on social media influences and podcasts because they realize, okay, this is the new game in town. People aren't listening to CNN unless they're in the dentist's office, or Fox News even so, that's interesting. I wonder if we will get to a point where a pope has to start addressing the new media. I would do it, and probably through their own bishops. I would think right, you wouldn't want to circumvent the bishop, but as Pope, since you're Pope, you'd want to speak to the bishop of my bishop, to rein me in Taylor's bishop if he needed reining in, et cetera, lofton, whoever.

Speaker 6: 33:18

Yeah, I wouldn't do it. I would do it, the ordinaries would do it. So you take a profession of faith the Vatican too, or from it as a council, or, and then you can just continue as normal. But just stop badmouthing the council and the popes and don't be a TLM supremacist. Acknowledge the Novus Ordo and, don't worry, I'm going to fix the Novus Ordo too. Okay, I'm going to get it all fixed up. We're going to meet everyone's needs. But we all got to play nice, except God, and we all got to make sure that we're respecting each other, respect all the other rights and respect, you know, respect the, the authority of the church

Speaker 4: 33:50

this is such a clown conference, like shut up, like shut up. I want to smack you.

Speaker 5: 33:57

Something has to it feels like, because we all understand how things unravel all right on the liberal side like I don't know how anybody could sit and take that conversation seriously.

Speaker 4: 34:11

Like you, suck, alex. Like I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 3: 34:15

You said don't badmouth the Novus Ordo. Then immediately said after that it needs to be fixed.

Speaker 4: 34:20

Dude, wait till you hear this last clip? Wait until you hear it. This is the one I did not post on Twitter. We're about to get into something. It's so ironic, this last clip. It's amazing. And one other thing I did want to say about fraternal correction, though I posted a picture of my wife years ago and when I posted it, Bug Hall said to me this is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. He wasn't saying that about my wife. He was saying because I posted it and it was because my wife looked very pretty in it and I was doing what e-girls do. I wanted people to tell me how pretty my wife was, so I deleted the picture. I was really upset with Bug Hall at the time.

Speaker 2: 35:03

It's only taken years for us to finally get him on the show because of it.

Speaker 4: 35:07

No, show because of it? No, but the point is what. It made me rethink about the way I post on x and it made me rethink about, like, what my motives were for posting certain things and I was like that that was the I was. Probably the best thing anybody has ever done for me is just tell me the truth.

Speaker 4: 35:27

So it's like what we're doing now. Yes, it's like it sounds mean and no, no, no, like I'm trying to get this stupid nonsense conversation out of the catholic like the normie catholic conversation. Like, stop talking about this stuff. You guys don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 35:42

And now bug hole is coming on tuesday, the uh, it looks like the chat would actually prefer the uh pre-mason protestant to be on the show instead of Voice of Reason.

Speaker 4: 35:52

No, our interview with our Voice of Reason was actually good. We had the better Voice of Reason on the other day.

Speaker 2: 36:05

Someone in the comments says they're going to be staying in New Richmond, wisconsin, for a while. The best TLM is going to be probably across the border in Minnesota, in the Twin Cities for you. So just look in the Twin Cities there's an FSSP parish, an SSPX chapel and a couple of dioceses and TLMs.

Speaker 4: 36:28

So yes, as women I almost never post anything, anything I retweet good stuff men post occasionally.

Speaker 3: 36:33

Yeah, very good, good woman my twitter is honestly the best, because I just get to spy on people all day I still have the fake nick cavazos twitter up.

Speaker 4: 36:41

I haven't tweeted anything from it, but I do, so I never took it down. Oh no, no, I changed it. It's a's Trentonius Trentonius, now, that's right. I'm Trentonius Horn now. Oh, brother, I did change it. I forgot, I did change it.

Speaker 3: 36:55

Play the next one Hold on hold on.

Speaker 2: 36:58

There are no arguments. They are not putting forth any arguments. There are no arguments for them to deal with.

Speaker 4: 37:04

No, but they're about to. Don't worry, there's some real good arguments coming guys. Don't worry, these are real good arguments they're about to put forward. They basically undermine everything they had just previously said is that.

Speaker 5: 37:17

It's how you act. It's not just what you implement, but how you celebrate liturgy, right? So how? So?

Speaker 5: 37:22

presumably you're celebrating ad orientum yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, absolutely ad orientum, because I Because I know really good priests, yeah, and they're just afraid, and I don't blame them for being afraid To try it. They're afraid to celebrate Ad Orientum because they don't want to be thought of as a rabble rouser. They don't want to be slapped on the wrist and then suppressed, and then the good work that they're trying to do within this parish gets you know, right, I think some of them are even afraid to ask permission of the bishop, lest they be put in that category so I think they have the pope.

Speaker 2: 37:54

Do you wait what? Why would you need permission to celebrate at orientum?

Speaker 4: 37:59

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They. They just went through a whole thing about how trads need to accept vatican ii. They need to accept all the popes as valid, and they need to say that everything the popes have taught and done has to be affirmed exactly, and that means francis, when he said you are not allowed to celebrate ad orientum. That cannot be challenged. They just dissented. Now they are dissenting and they are saying that this.

Speaker 4: 38:27

So the pre matt frad wants the priest to celebrate ad orientum and not be afraid of getting in trouble. He doesn't blame him for being a coward. You know, I understand it, but you know I wish you would do it. It's like wait a minute, so the trads that do it and and actually show the gumption that you're saying you wish the priest that you know did they become a villain, so you want that priest to become a trad, and then you'd be putting him in the category that you're criticizing right now. It makes no sense. Wait. They keep going, though, because you have no idea how much. Look at all the mistakes since the council that they start to criticize also voice of reason, doesn't know how to smoke a cigar.

Speaker 4: 39:06

It's really sad actually listen, all the listen, to everything they criticize from the council that they just said every, every. You guys need to make a statement of faith, and you need to. You, too, matt and alex, need to make a statement of faith and affirm everything the church has taught since the second vatican council. This is completely wrong what they are doing right now, and these guys are dissenters.

Speaker 3: 39:32

Thank you, Mike Lewis.

Speaker 4: 39:36

These guys are dissenters. It's not okay.

Speaker 5: 39:38

No, you can celebrate without your bishop's permission, yep, and I encourage you to celebrate at our anthem, yep. It was clearly a mistake to face the people.

Speaker 2: 39:49

He just said they made a mistake.

Speaker 4: 39:51

The church made a mistake. The Second Vatican Council made a mistake. Wait a minute. This to me. These guys are trad dissenters. They need to make a profession of faith. They deserve an excommunication for that statement. I am giving a fraternal correction to Matt and Alex right now. You guys need to take that statement back and you need to go and tell your bishop you apologize, otherwise I'm going to ratify the explanation.

Speaker 2: 40:18

They need to go to confession for being a trad.

Speaker 4: 40:21

Go to confession. Boys Repent Very uncharitable.

Speaker 2: 40:24

For sins against synodality Sins against synodality.

Speaker 3: 40:27

They're just trads in the closet. They just want to be Closeted. They're just trads in the closet, like they just want to be closet of trads. They just want. They just want the solemn high gothic tlm so badly. But it's just not feasible because once you get the label of trad, you're the bad boy.

Speaker 2: 40:40

Judging from his voice, it's not the only closet I honestly wait.

Speaker 4: 40:43

Brendan love. You guys are so weird. I genuinely don't get this for the frivolous earthly issue.

Speaker 2: 40:49

Get your pride in check I wonder if he makes those same comments on on the video from matt would you say that to know, because brendan loves matt frad and he thinks any criticism of matt frad is causing this weird little parasocial relationship with matt frad. Thinks he's his buddy you people.

Speaker 4: 41:06

You people think your favorite content creator is like and they are idols in your life, like. We can all be criticized, every single one of us, and I'm fine with you even criticizing me and saying that, yes, I'm prideful. I'm also angry, like I'm angry that this caricature is being made of trads and then they have the same exact feelings as we do, so much so that they don't even go to the freaking novus ordo. Every single person in the church that takes the faith seriously complains about bad liturgy, and bad liturgy is freaking universal throughout the church right now. It's not just in America, it's not just you may have found some crazy unicorn Novus Ordo where it's perfect for you, but that's not what most people are dealing with, and it's really frustrating to watch guys that did what they had to and I don't even blame people that do that.

Speaker 4: 41:53

We all need to get away from this gay shit. Like it's gay. So much of it. So much of it is gay. Nobody wants altar girls. Nobody wants some old lady going like this with the hand sanitizer before she gives you communion and it drops on the floor five times. None of us want it. So why aren't we criticizing that? Why are we picking on trads who are literally just trying to go to mass with their family and get their children to heaven. I don't understand it. It makes this guy's been this guy reverted to the faith four freaking years ago when he's telling trads that they're not matt alex all right, I think I don't know alex's story because I can't stand listening to him.

Speaker 2: 42:33

I think he was a cradle catholic who just started going east during covid.

Speaker 3: 42:36

I don't know if he was ever away from the faith or not but just, he just needs to take a page out of his own book when it comes to, like you know, catholics not going on and teaching too quick.

Speaker 4: 42:47

It's just so sad, it's so sad there's a reason the, the taylor marshall and and uh tim gordon video of uh, novus ordo sayings like the the novus ordo isms, where they talked about like felt banners and and your, your parish community and your or your faith community and your, oh, that's like there's a reason that show blew up so much. It's because so many of us have just been indoctrinated with this horrible is nonsense since the council and it was like Holy cow. Somebody's actually picking up on how corny this stuff is. I don't know why I'm cook, why I cook dinner, because Anthony is cooking.

Speaker 2: 43:25

Did you read Mike Pantila's tweet today? No, it was Mike Pantila's tweet today.

Speaker 4: 43:31

No, oh, mike Pantila, yes.

Speaker 2: 43:35

Every trad has felt that way. That's what he tweeted about. That's the point when you make that decision to just suck it up and drive the long way to your TLM.

Speaker 4: 43:48

Yeah, I don't know man, I'm just tired of these conversations that have been happening for a long time now 60 years, yeah, but I'm talking about these particular conversations from Catholic Inc who are? Trying to get the trads in check. You guys don't have a right to get the trads in check. You guys are part of the reason this nonsense is in play, because you guys actually solidified it with your apologetics throughout the 90s and 2000s, like trying to convince all of us that that this liturgy is heaven on earth.

Speaker 3: 44:20

It's not, I mean it is, but it's not. Yeah, it's like in substance it is, but just the way that you guys are portraying it.

Speaker 4: 44:26

Yeah no, like you guys should have been in an uproar back then, but I understand there was no catechesis on it and now there is Like this is where we are. We're at a very different time in the church than we were in 1986 when Scott Hahn converted.

Speaker 3: 44:39

I'll say it like this. I'll say it like this because then I'm going to bounce, because I'm going to go to mass myself. The blue pill regime is coming down, right. We see this when it comes to certain narratives about World War II, the amount of people right now who are rightfully up in arms about us going to another potential war, including myself, right, with Iran. We're not going to continue on with the forever wars In the church. We're not going to continue on with the last 60 years of propaganda that we've heard, whether it be feminismionism or novus ordoism. The scales are coming off. People are waking up and you can kick and scream and fight for the system. Right, let's have a good debate, but recognize, at the end of the day, the latin mass is gonna win. It is what it is, and in 20, 30, 40, 50 years, when we have a pious the 13th or something like that, who's you know, an sspx guy, whooco overnight, somehow, it is what it is. Just suck up and deal with it.

Speaker 4: 45:36

Nick, we're going to get you back on again because I miss having you on brother. I'm sorry that I made you jump into this show because this is probably no, no.

Speaker 3: 45:44

Let me real quick, before I leave. Let me clarify something for the entire world, so particularly the set A's.

Speaker 2: 45:49

Okay. Hold up me clarify something for the entire world.

Speaker 3: 45:52

so particularly the settings will hold up. Um, here we go clarify for the world anthony and I, we had no beef people like thought we actually hated each other first wait, why? You know?

Speaker 2: 46:00

why there? Was why. Why I don't?

Speaker 3: 46:04

understand what's going on. So, like when I was going through my phase, let me make it explicitly clear what I was not saying was we can't have conversations and criticize and stuff like that. All I was criticizing was just making one's life into pursuing drama. That's all that I was criticizing. And Anthony and I and Rob and I we had zero beef zero issues.

Speaker 4: 46:30

You and I, I literally called you. We had like a half an hour conversation and you were just like all right, you'll take a step back for a little bit and then you'll come back.

Speaker 3: 46:39

And also, like for people, when it comes to certain topics, I'm not afraid to talk about them if I run for political office, like that's just the thing, certain things I'm no longer worried about talking about because it's just when you're when you're running for office, you have to talk about tough issues.

Speaker 4: 46:53

It is what it is the next episode, Nick, we're doing Synagogue of Satan.

Speaker 3: 46:59

I mean go read all my Facebook posts. I'm still a boomer and I'm on Facebook. Go and read all my Facebook posts and you'll be surprised.

Speaker 4: 47:06

So yeah, because I honestly I thought tonight we were going to talk about Tucker and Ted Cruz. That was originally what we were going to talk about and then Matt Fradd dropped this gem.

Speaker 3: 47:16

It was like too juicy to not do. I've only voted for Ted Cruz to keep his gay opponents out, but I want him to leave.

Speaker 4: 47:24

All right, Nick, go to mass. That's way more important than talking to us two idiots.

Speaker 2: 47:30

Someone did drop 10 bucks here for a question for nick that's your take on trump.

Speaker 3: 47:35

Now, president, situation rent. He should not bomb iran over and out that's fine.

Speaker 4: 47:39

Now we're gonna. I want to do an. I want to do a trump episode with you because man has my opinion of him changed. It'd be fun to see it fun to see like me and you bounce off each other and we challengechallenge.

Speaker 2: 47:50

Yes, you're on your four-week black pill. It's going to be the four-week.

Speaker 4: 47:54

you know I'm always black-pilling, rob, you know that. It's just what direction? Yeah, I always find different things to do my thing on, but I'm always smiling through my black pill. Don't worry about it. Alright, nick, go to Mass. We'll see you soon We'll get Nick on back again soon.

Speaker 2: 48:10

I put your chat up, Grover Hope you're happy.

Speaker 4: 48:14

I was probably getting Nick back on. I was, let's see, let's see. It's so crazy because Matt literally just like boosted Nick's episode. And he was like lovely brother, I was crying listening to this. Stop crying, matt, you're always crying. Oh, let's see. Wait, I did see a good kennedy comment. Uh, no, I saw kennedy said something about, uh, pope paul vi, but it's saint pope paul vi, kennedy, and I just wanted to correct that uh, let's play the last pope paul bi uh, larry, lars, larry, what is that?

Speaker 2: 48:52

uh, it's just a blank. He just gave us 20 bucks is it 20 dollars, or is that okay?

Speaker 4: 48:57

all right, we we like when you guys send this like weird money that we've never heard of and we think it's real money. Uh, all right, let's go through it yeah, for everyone who's not from america. Your money's not real money canadian money is like may as well, may as well, just oh what are you doing?

Speaker 2: 49:16

okay, we're ready yep, acknowledging it.

Speaker 5: 49:21

Even better if you get rid of the the the second altar and use the primary one clearly, exactly that's what I would do, and also not only that.

Speaker 6: 49:30

I would also have to either, you know, discipline the people that need to be disciplined within the church. You know, clergy probably remove some cardinals, make some. You know, bishop Barron, he's a cardinal. I'd make him a cardinal right off the bat, bishop Bar.

Speaker 5: 49:43

He would. I just don't want to remove people. You know how they talk about promoting people into obscurity. Yeah, I want Barron, where he can make the most impact. Oh yeah.

Speaker 6: 49:55

I would make him a cardinal and he could still continue as he is, still do his thing. I would help whatever he needs for his ministry. Help him, He'd be the guy.

Speaker 5: 50:05

Are you afraid that you're too focused on America Because you've said nothing about every other country in the world?

Speaker 6: 50:10

Well, I'm not too sure what's going on.

Speaker 2: 50:13

Did you cut out the part where he said he'd make George Janko head of the CDF?

Speaker 4: 50:19

The Bishop Barron stuff. It's like we did the Barron thing and it's like man, these guys, to them Barron is the epitome of catholicism that's because baron's like you know, the epitome of catholic kink and that's what they think catholicism is it's like look like I, I like baron, I'm not even trying to trash the guy like I like father mike schmitz, I like those guys, I'm not.

Speaker 2: 50:45

The fact is, is baron one of the better bishops in the us?

Speaker 4: 50:47

yes, that's the problem with his competition, isn't right now? It's like, it's like I don't know man, like man, look, they did the interview. They knew this segment was gonna cause some strife and it did. And I saw a lot of people in that today and they were just like, like I, just so, so tone deaf, completely tone deaf, like man. Just have a conversation with some guys that actually, like I spent my entire life in the Novus Ordo. Like it's not, like I'm a convert who came right to tradition and I don't have experience of both worlds. Like I have a lot of experience of both worlds. Don't have experience of both worlds. Like I have a lot of experience of both worlds. I went through a roller coaster of a faith journey, faith life, whatever you want to call it when I was in the novus ordo. Like I didn't find stability in my faith and in my family until I found tradition.

Speaker 2: 51:43

So I can almost guarantee I've been to more novus ordo parishes than either of them, probably more than both of them combined, actually yeah, just like, and, and that's the other thing.

Speaker 4: 51:53

It's like there's no difference in me driving an hour to a novus ordo than somebody who goes to the novus ordo but drives past three or four local parishes to get there, because that one's which is what almost every one of the novus ordo does yeah, because because if you're your geological parish because it's like it goes by your location and whatever location you're in you're supposed to go to that geological parish, territorial parish, that's where you're supposed to go, and 99% of people that take the faith seriously are not going to go to the one that's right near them.

Speaker 4: 52:30

If you don't live in a small town where there's only one catholic parish, chances are you probably aren't driving to your territory, territorial parish yeah, it's like like, because the one that I told like the the my local parish when my wife converted the rcia program that my wife came into was so atrocious that like I had a war with the woman running it and I this is like I was just coming into the faith and my wife was just coming into the faith and I'm like listening to the most insane stuff in this RCIA program and I'm like we can't go to this parish, we have to drive to the next one. And we went to the next one that was nearest after that and that one was abysmalmal so we had to go to another one. So now I'm going an hour to a diocesan tlm. I'm sorry. I finally found somewhere that I don't have to worry about my children picking up horrible ideas about catholicism that aren't true. Anthony goes to his parish to learn geology.

Speaker 4: 53:27

yeah, you were calling it a geological parish. Geographical that's what I was, geological. You guys listen to a high school dropout. You're not gonna get I don't know what to tell you. Or you guys can stay and change your local parish from within. Where's enoch's tweet from the other day? Uh, let me pull it up. He. He sent it to us on uh, on uh, whatsapp or something. I want to read that one because this one was very controversial, very controversial. It's a very good tweet made such a good point because you know essentially what these guys are saying is what enochism is saying in this tweet do you know what the most middle eastern thing about enoch is?

Speaker 2: 54:05

he texts on whatsapp.

Speaker 4: 54:07

Bro, just text me yeah, yeah, it's like he thinks he's going to get charged over.

Speaker 2: 54:12

We all have iPhones in America, bro. You live in America, you don't need to worry about foreign cell phone charges. Okay, let me find this tweet. What was it about again?

Speaker 4: 54:24

He was basically saying the things about the Novus Ordo, that the Novus Ordo people say about the Latin mass. I forgot exactly what it was. It was between the two of us, the three of us, I mean. Enoch texted to me like on a normal text oh, it's right here, I got it, I got it, I got it.

Speaker 2: 54:43

Let me uh pull it up here this is exactly actually what we were.

Speaker 4: 54:47

Just what I was just saying. Right like so, if you seek, seeking a reverend novus ordo undermines the validity of the eucharist at the tambourine mass. Stop trying to make the liturgy about aesthetics. It's the same Jesus. Also, if your local parish does not offer a Reverend Novosorto Mass, you should not drive longer distances to attend a Reverend Novosorto Mass. This is exactly what we were just talking about. If you're not going to your parish that you are supposed to go to, I don't want to hear anything you are doing, especially true if you're going to a canonically different church.

Speaker 4: 55:23

I was just going to say you're doing the same thing that matt and alex are doing at that point going to a different right to escape the novas. All of us are trying to escape the damn novas ordo. Everyone, even the most, even the most diehard novas ordoists, you're all trying to escape it. Stop pretending you're not, like're not. This isn't about the people that go to the Novus Ordo. It is not anybody's fault that the bishops put this liturgy on us. It's just what it is.

Speaker 2: 55:50

I'm starting to think, though, that it is at some point people like Voice of Reason, matt Fradd and others are going to have to start to take actual accountability the fact that they're allowing it to continue. They're enabling it by defending it by defending it.

Speaker 4: 56:07

But what was that guy really mad about the other day? Remember that one guy, jason was pissed about the confession. What was it that I said? That pissed them off 90% of those.

Speaker 4: 56:24

Oh, oh, that's right yeah, so okay, so it was with trent's video, right? So trent was saying trad's dirty little secret is that they're constantly confessing this sin. I said if that's trad's dirty little secret, then the novus ordo's dirty little secret is 99 of people at the novus ordo aren't even going to confession. Yeah, like they just aren't going. And I'm not saying faithful Catholics that go to the Novus Ordo don't go to confession. Of course you do. You guys are faithful Catholics. You're the you're, you're you're. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about your average person at the Novus Ordo isn't going to confession. The church pews are packed every Sunday with people that go to go to church for heaven insurance, where they go because they're nominally Catholic and they just don't know the faith that well and they're not even going to confession at all. So the fact that trads are confessing this sin means that trads take mortal sin seriously and they're doing what they can to get it out of their lives.

Speaker 2: 57:11

You go, you know, as someone who went to the North sort of 99% of my life, right, you don't have anyone stay behind in the pews, no one, no one. You know. So, like one of my uncles, occasionally you'll see somebody because you're right and you know what it's not like. Everyone looks at them like why are you staying behind? You know what? Did you murder someone yeah you know, yeah, if you go to tlm, one quarter to a third of the people won't get up and receive and you know what? No one, nobody cares.

Speaker 4: 57:42

Yeah, it's like. It's like, so, so that guy got so mad. He's like you have absolutely no proof of this, you're just. You're just, uh, denigrating the novus ordo because you think you're better than us. It's like. No, I'm not. That is absolutely not at all what I was saying.

Speaker 4: 57:57

My point is that it like there's horrible catechesis in your average Novus Ordo parish and most of the people that do go to the Latin mass are all they. Most of the people that go to the Latin mass are people who were at the Novus Ordo, took their faith seriously and were like I would rather go somewhere reverent. So then they ended up at a Latin mass. Now, when you go to that Latin mass, there's a concentration of those people who took their faith seriously. So they're all like you have a concentration of faithful Catholics at a Latin mass. Now, this probably wasn't like this before the council, because before the council, no, I'm sure.

Speaker 4: 58:29

But in this modern era, what you have at the Latin mass is a high concentration of faithful Catholics trying to take their faith seriously. So, yes, the confession lines are always long and yes, there's going to be a third of the people not getting up to receive. And when you compare the stats in the Novus Ordo you have 70% of the people that go don't believe in the real presence, 80% support artificial birth control, 80% support abortion. For certain reasons you have no difference in the Novus Ordo than you do in secular society because most people are going for a social club. But when you go to the Latin Miss, because you have that concentration of people who take their faith seriously, those numbers are 99% think artificial birth control is wrong. 99% believe the Eucharist is valid. You wonder who the 1% is in every one of those surveys. Sometimes I think they just do it for like, like for error.

Speaker 2: 59:19

It like allow for error, and well it. It's statistical error that is causing that.

Speaker 4: 59:24

One percent, yeah yeah, look, I got a little riled up tonight. I'm just I, I don't, uh, and only 14 are even going to mass. Yeah so, but I'm talking about the 14 that do go to mass it's something like only 25 of 14% go to confession once per year.

Speaker 2: 59:45

It's crazy.

Speaker 4: 59:46

It's crazy. You go to the Latin Mass and most of the people there are trying to go once a month. I go either every two weeks or once a month at minimum Like minimum. And I take my kids once a month because I want them in the habit of it, so that when they move out and they get to like I want them always in the habit. The longer you go without confession, the less you want to go. It's like you don't want to go to confession the longer you push it off. So just stay in the habit of going and any chance you get to go, you go Angry.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

Anthony is the best. Anthony, you know it's frustrating. Shut up. Grover. I'm going to smack you. It's frustrating because the last three, four, five weeks, or whatever you know, at mass reading through the missile, you know, part of the reading will stick out to me and it's usually something like being more charitable watching what you say, stuff. So I'll get real serious about that, especially online. Then I'll see someone I'll see something like this or someone you know just attacking trads and it's oh, it just pisses me off.

Speaker 4: 1:00:55

It's just look, here's what. Here's what I'm going to say to the people who go to the Novus Ordo and think the trads are uncharitable. Trads are just faithful Catholics who go to the Latin Mass and they experience something there that they always so like. We're all taught that the Mass is heaven meets earth and you're actually going and you're worshiping Christ truly present in the Eucharist, and the angels and the saints are around us and this, this earthly worship, is meant to resemble the heavenly worship. And when you go to the latin mass you kind of see, like that's actually what you get, so like the, the thing you were catechized to believe hold on.

Speaker 2: 1:01:34

Does that guy not have kids?

Speaker 4: 1:01:37

yeah, I don't think he does, then he just needs to shut up yeah, he doesn't get a talk I'm serious, um, uh, so, uh, being new to catholicism, I enjoy my imperfect nova, sorta for what it is, but I've been reading about what proper liturgy and worship are and they wish there was a close to you. That's it, it's like. But, dude, it's not your fault. Yeah, that's what you have. Like nobody's nobody's criticizing you because you go to the novado. And it's funny because I really love someone like him who goes to the novus ordo and doesn't take offense to when we talk about this stuff, because it's like I'm not criticizing the people that go. It is like you're not, it's not your fault. How the hell are you responsible that the bishops put this thing in play and put it in place and that they're doing this crazy stuff in the liturgy? Me and Rob went down to North Carolina and there was a really good bishop that came down there and celebrated mass like a really faithful African bishop.

Speaker 2: 1:02:31

Now I will say that bishop had to be the one to do it and it wasn't his diocese, because the bishop that was over that diocese of Charlotte was instead at a female-led.

Speaker 4: 1:02:43

Laudato Si. Yes, and that's Bishop Martins who's tried canceling Latin Mass in Charlotte. So the neighboring diocese bishop came over and he was a really good bishop and the guy was a faithful Catholic, anthony berated him until he heard Anthony's confession, as he was literally trying to leave.

Speaker 2: 1:02:59

He was trying to get in his car. Anthony goes over and says I'm the guy that you got all those nasty emails about. Will you hear my confession?

Speaker 4: 1:03:07

It's actually what happened in a work. I'm like, look, I'm like, I'm the guy that all the emails were sent about that. I'm a misogynist and, you know, an anti-Semite and all this stuff. People that call trads uncharitable are cheering on Alex, or cheering on Alex, or call for.

Speaker 4: 1:03:26

Marshall to be excommunicated. You want to take the Eucharist from someone. You don't get to call anyone uncharitable. Very good point. I actually want to read Bobby's tweet before we get off, because I do have to get off. Bobby wrote this to Matt Frat Matt, your channel was a big part of my reversion and for that I will forever be grateful. I've also been a local supporter for the past couple of years, but I'm probably going to stop.

Speaker 4: 1:03:50

I constantly hear on your show, both in subtle jabs and in this episode with Alex overt calls for excommunication and disciplining of the traditional community, all while painting with a broad brush and accusing them of being uncharitable and divisive. Now, keep in mind, bobby goes to a Byzantine liturgy. Why are you willing to allow someone like voice of reason to call for the excommunication of someone like Taylor Marshall but can't offer him the grace to have a conversation with him? It's perfectly acceptable to you, for someone, to you for someone, to demand that his access to the sacraments be taken away from him. Casting a soul into the abyss for eternity is better than having a conversation with a trad. You've had a conversation with the diamond, with a diamond brother, but can't have on a traditional catholic if you think trads are so wrong about everything, then have a conversation with one, and on air, and correct them. Alex went so far as to change rights, as did you, to find a liturgy that feeds your soul better.

Speaker 4: 1:04:43

Why are the people that are spiritually fed at the TLM treated like disobedient, unfaithful children for doing the same thing you guys are? There's an argument to be made that some trads are divisive, but when you allow people to equivocate the TLM with set of accountants, you need to recognizeocate the TLM with set of a contest. You need to recognize the division your own show is sowing within the church which Matt had come out when, when, when, pope Francis died and he was like for any division I've caused. I want to apologize and it's like I look Matt. Matt himself didn't call for Taylor's excommunication. Let's be clear about that.

Speaker 4: 1:05:24

He did specifically bring up Taylor, but he did bring up Taylor Marshall and he did imply that Taylor Marshall wouldn't accept the Second Vatican Council and the preceding votes. So it's like you know this stuff. It's just so tiring, like what I'm going to tell you for those of you who don't go to a Latin mass like it's a bunch of young people that love Catholicism. That's all it is. They're not being divisive.

Speaker 4: 1:05:53

What happens is it's the same thing as when you become Catholic and you find that pearl of great price and you want to go and argue with Protestants because you're like you guys don't understand what you're missing. You don't understand what you're missing when somebody goes to the Latin mass and they discover it and it increases their faith and it helps the stability of their faith life, they want to go and talk to like normie Catholics that never experienced it and they're like you don't understand what you're missing. Now, some of them have some harsh language because, yes, they feel like they were robbed of their birthright by being raised in the Novus Ordo. Because when you go from the Novus Ordo to the traditional liturgy and it becomes a way of life for you, it changes your perspective on everything and you get angry at the bishops for doing this to us, and it's just a side effect.

Speaker 2: 1:06:33

I have a question for you what do you think is more of a failing? More disordered think is more of a failing, well, more disordered. Do you think it's the, the trad who feels anger and is sometimes uncharitable because their patrimony was stolen from them and they're fighting for it? Or do you think it's more disordered and more of a failing um to completely abandon, like your, your, your patrimony, your birthright, and then to then to cowardly complain about those who are willing to fight for it?

Speaker 4: 1:07:07

Yeah, look there's. There's exactly what you're saying, because there's there's something to righteous anger. Right, like you, you can have righteous anger about this stuff being changed because it shouldn't have been changed, and even Matt and Alex recognize that in their own car. Oh, clearly, at Orientum, taking that away was a mistake. It's like you're saying the same thing. We are guys, so I don't get it. Stop equating trads with, like I'm just tired of the caricature.

Speaker 2: 1:07:37

You know I'm going to say something, alex. Alex, you cowardly abandoned your church in your birthright. Don't get pissed at me if I want to fight for it. You might be a coward, but the rest of our rest of us aren't, and we get to fight for it, whether you say so or not. So maybe just pipe down and go live in your little eastern parish and leave the rest of us alone yeah, like you.

Speaker 4: 1:07:59

You put yourself in this arena as an apologist, and why don't you stick to just like debating protestants?

Speaker 2: 1:08:07

well he doesn't, though, does he just kind of cozies up to them?

Speaker 4: 1:08:11

yeah, I'm not crazy about the, the lack of charity showing to fellow catholics. And then, oh you White. Dr White was the most amazing person I ever met. And Dr White, he was so kind to me. And Ubi Petrus was the most amazing guy I've ever met in my life and he was just so kind to me and I can't believe how good of a man he is. But that Taylor Marshall, we gotta excommunicate him, like that's literally what we just heard on that show and it's insane to me.

Speaker 4: 1:08:42

I'm tired of being lectured by those who turn tail and ring 100. It I'm sick of it. Um, it's like man, this is, this is just, it's just a tone-deaf conversation, um, and I I don't get it. You know, like, like have somebody on who can explain why they feel their birthright was robbed from them, how the Latin mass completely changed their entire devotional life. The way they change, they change Like, if you, if I got into the things that changed in my life from that liturgy the way I run my household, the way my wife respects me, the way my children see me, the way I raise my children is completely different, like so many things changed because I found stability in this way of living the sacraments out.

Speaker 2: 1:09:27

It's almost like it's the way we were meant to live as Catholics.

Speaker 4: 1:09:30

Because what you do actually does affect what you believe. Yeah, whether you think you're getting the yes, jesus is present at the Novus Ordo. Nobody's denying that. I'm not saying it's not a valid mass. It's not the point when you're living like if you live out what the church actually did for 2,000 years. There's a reason the church developed those traditions is because it formed culture and it will form you, like if you go to one. It will form you. It will change the way you, you, you operate in this world. The guy who cozies up the protestants is an ardent defender of the novus ordo.

Speaker 2: 1:10:08

go figure, um and, by the way, just well, since bob Bobby is here and others are too, I'm not saying, if you like, if you're a westerner who likes the eastern rights that you don't have a right to go to, you obviously clearly do. If it helps you worship God better, so be it.

Speaker 4: 1:10:36

It's those who don't want to give us that same.

Speaker 4: 1:10:39

I'm not mad that Alex goes to the Eastern right, like I understand it, but like he'll even say, yeah, you know, during COVID I went there and I just fell in love with it because they take the faith seriously and it's like, oh, so you're saying exactly what trads are saying, but you don't like trads. I don't know why, I don't get it. But the two of matt and alex need to go to a latin mass for two months and get to see what. Why like, why we're having these conversations and why people are so upset about the novus ordo and why people are angry at their bishops, why we threw a fit when we saw they were going to cancel the latin mass in charlotte. Why we're throwing a fit when they're going to cancel the latin mass in detroit as they celebrate june.

Speaker 2: 1:11:25

You know what and go to go to a latin mass for two months in the basement of a gym because their parish was taken from them.

Speaker 4: 1:11:34

Go to one of those parishes for two months and you'll meet some of the best people you've ever met in your entire life and you'll go. Why am I, why was I ever making a caricature of these people, like I'm sorry, but the the taylor marshall stuff comes off to me is just envy. It's like he's super successful and people actually pay attention to what he's doing, every single video he does getting hundreds of thousands of views. It's like if you and he's leading people out of the church. No, he's not. Clearly, he's clearly not.

Speaker 4: 1:12:06

I have heard thousands of people tell me I came back to the church because of Taylor Marshall. I came back to the church because of Tim Gordon, or like at least any number of trads. I'm telling you that this is the reality of it. So I don't, I don't. You know, there's different kinds of people. There's some people that it's like you. You talked about matt frad. You're being divisive. Yeah, right, I'm being a little divisive. I care enough about matt frad to hope that if he hears this, he doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't do this again.

Speaker 2: 1:12:35

It's just silly, yeah, and somehow we will be the ones accused of being uncharitable and device having andrew clavin on having ruslan on have.

Speaker 4: 1:12:46

I mean, I could give you a list of protestants that he's had on. I could give you a list of like, uh, people that have criticized the traditional movement, but he but it's like, no, I'm not gonna have those trads on whatever. That's your thing, it's your show. I'm not telling you who I'm on, it's just whatever. I'm always going to defend the trap position, even though I don't even consider myself like a real trad, like I don't. It's not like. It's not like, uh, I don't know like. I just I just know what.

Speaker 4: 1:13:14

I just know how much my life changed once I was introduced to the traditional catholic faith. Like there are things I don't live up to. I'm not, you know, I don't whatever, but I do the best I can. It has helped me and my family in ways that I could never explain on a podcast, like if you just saw the way my family works together, the relationships, how healthy and positive they all are, and even my children, like my children. If they they get stuck going to a Nova Sordo, they're just like dad, it was so bad. Like my kids hate it. It's just cringe.

Speaker 2: 1:13:52

My six year old has gone from being hard to control and um antsy and you know, just as a six and you know just just a six year old, you know, at mass and the Novus Ordo to sitting still the whole time reading through his little children's missile and just just paying with rapt attention to what's going on around them.

Speaker 4: 1:14:14

Um I, this is not actually true, though Matt would have Taylor on. Like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make a caricature of matt either, I think he would I know he would like.

Speaker 4: 1:14:25

That's not I. I know he would and I I it it. But, like, because of conversations like this, who's to say taylor would want to like? Why would taylor want to go and talk to matt after something like that is what is the point? Right, like what benefit is it for taylor to go on, go into a hostile environment like that? That's like you know. But I don't think matt would be like. I think matt would have taylor on because taylor's the biggest podcaster in and it would be the biggest show ever in catholicism. But that's why, that's probably why I'll get a million views. It'll get a million views, it definitely will.

Speaker 4: 1:14:59

Yeah, that's why he would do it, not not because because, like, it's so funny that I'm going to be charitable and have ecumenical dial and I'm not saying this about Matt, I'm saying this in general the position of most people in the, in that world, it's like, oh, like Trent will have redeemed zoom, redeem zoomer on, and like all these guys and it's and I'm not saying I wouldn't like we've had redeem zoomer on, but it's like that's not what I'm getting at. It's like talk to real catholics, it's, it's. It's frustrating, yeah, frustrating, frustrating, frustrating. Oh, guys, I'm sure the comments are going to be riddled with people who call this show uncharitable. And it is, I guess. I don't know. Whatever, I don't really care. I've given up on thinking we're ever going to be in that world anyway. So it's like may as well speak your mind. May as well speak your mind.

Speaker 2: 1:15:55

Why would you want to be? You know, if you're actually a Catholic. Why would you want to be? You know if you're actually I don't know I'm just.

Speaker 4: 1:16:00

Why would you want to be? Well, early on, look, and I'm and I'm criticizing matt for the views thing, but early on, of course we would love to have gotten on pints with aquinas, because it's exposure for the show. We're all victims of it. Yeah, I'm criticizing him for that. We're all just, we're all awful, we're all terrible.

Speaker 4: 1:16:18

But it's funny because, like you, you do things because you think you're gonna get views and they wind up not getting you views and then, like the shows, where the best shows we do are when it's me and you off the cuff and there's kind of nothing going on in the news, and then we have to start sharing like some, maybe some personal anecdotes, and those develop into like a real conversation about life and like and and. You get these little gems on this show every so often. They're not clearly not every episode, like most episodes are us just goofing off, but every once in a while on this show you'll get these little gems of wisdom that come from one of us because we had some experience and or a family member said something and, honestly, this is the best podcast because it's real and unscripted. The normie ones seem overly pious and fake. Yeah, you'll never get overly pious from us.

Speaker 4: 1:17:09

I don't know. I think I think most people are doing what they can to to live out their faith I do. I don't blame people that go to the that try to find a Reverend Nova Sordo. I don't blame people that are trying to find an Eastern liturgy. I don't blame people that go to the Latin Mass. I think all of us that are faithful Catholics are doing everything we can to try and save our souls, so let's not judge the people that do it a little differently than us Live and let live when it comes to those are.

Speaker 4: 1:17:33

Catholic, they're Catholic. They have a different temperament than you. And catholic, like all right, they have a different, they have a different temperament and they like the bombastic guys. I like your show because I'm a retard. That's fair oh man, like somebody, somebody, uh, somebody said something about, uh, about, about us like being like uh, self-righteous and prideful. I was like dude, we're just the, we're just an entertainment comedy show. Like that's actually what our show is it's like self-righteous like we.

Speaker 2: 1:18:11

It's the last thing we put ourselves down so much purposefully to avoid that yeah, like my whole point of being on this show is to keep you down the audience never will.

Speaker 4: 1:18:24

Let me get the audience would never let me get too prideful. Um, why doesn't matt want to talk to lucky luciano's descendant? People have been watching for a long time, you just said that two weeks ago. Oh, shut up, Forget Grover. We got to ban Phil. Get a little sick of Phil's nastiness.

Speaker 2: 1:18:50

He was gone for a long time. He only recently came back.

Speaker 4: 1:18:53

He's back. These guys hate watch Grover and Phil love to hate watch us.

Speaker 2: 1:18:58

All right, we're going to wrap this up.

Speaker 4: 1:19:01

I'm pretty sure Phil does it just to report back to Jeremiah Phil watches every single Catholic show that's out there. He's just a bored old man. Did your wife okay the boat repairs?

Speaker 2: 1:19:12

Of course she did. He had to negotiate a few picture hangings around the house?

Speaker 4: 1:19:20

I'm sure. No, it was one of those things where I'll'll be honest. My wife loves the boat as much as I do, so it wasn't a big sell like we. We haven't been out on it, so she's like losing her mind because I remember the time she appeared drunkenly on the show on your boat.

Speaker 2: 1:19:33

Yeah, it was a fun time.

Speaker 4: 1:19:36

She was next door at the neighbor's house drinking wine and I was outside in the driveway on the boat just talking to rob. And uh, my wife came home from the neighbor's house drunk and she's like, oh, you're doing a show. And she just like came on the show. I'm like, what are you doing? Like why are you here? Get out of the show. What's wrong with you?

Speaker 2: 1:19:56

oh hey, you never told us what happened this last weekend, while you hated your family all of a sudden yeah, I just about had it with them.

Speaker 4: 1:20:08

That's a locals episode, dude. Okay, we'll do that. Yeah, because I was. I was very fed up with a couple things that's a locals episode winner will Tucker. Theo Howard, we have books. Yes, wait, so wait. Who do we?

Speaker 2: 1:20:21

have. That's a Locals episode. Theo Howard Will Tucker. Theo Howard, oh, Theo Howard, we have books. Yes, Wait, so wait. Who do we have? So Tuesday we have Bug. We have Bug Hall. Tuesday we have Eric Sam. It's Thursday right, yes, but wait, I have to find I don't know if I confirmed with Theo, but I know I didn't see it on my calendar.

Speaker 4: 1:20:41

No, I didn't put it in the calendar, but let's see.

Speaker 2: 1:20:45

I wonder if we could get Lucas Botkin and if anyone would actually watch that show.

Speaker 4: 1:20:50

July 12th July 12th. We have Theo Howard on. Okay, I'm going to confirm that with him now does it count?

Speaker 2: 1:21:03

does does it count as an ad read if I just put up a comment that says ad read?

Speaker 4: 1:21:09

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Speaker 2: 1:21:14

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Speaker 4: 1:21:19

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