Has the Fourth Turning Arrived? AI, Collapse & What Comes Next (Full LOCALS Version)

What if war isn’t just about borders and resources, but a bid to birth a new age? We start with Tucker’s provocation and push beyond the usual takes, tracing how sacred language and secular power intertwine—from end‑times zeal to technocratic dreams of a future ruled by surveillance, transhuman bets, and code. Along the way, we ask whether the old Bretton Woods story has run out of credibility, and what really follows when an era ends: myth, realism, or something we can’t yet name.

We pull the thread through three fronts. First, faith and politics: why leaders reach for biblical frames like Amalek, why some believers think history can be forced, and how a “third path” of cold realism is reshaping alliances. Second, AI and power: the race among a handful of labs, the fear of a “singleton” that locks out rivals, and the quieter reality that disruptive tools gut the ladder for junior roles long before they replace experts. We weigh the promise against brittle economics—sky‑high capex, chip scarcity, and energy ceilings—and ask how meaning survives when work that once formed character becomes a prompt.

The third front is the one closest to home: men and women losing trust. Courtship feels transactional, social media scripts reward contempt, and the wisdom institutions that should steady us—the church, the academy—speak softly or speak past us. We argue for a thicker story: fathers present, not performative; mentors who form rather than mock; communities that teach responsibility, craft, and courage. Realism without a story becomes cold; story without realism becomes mania. If a world is ending, the task is to land this one with prudence and hope, building the next on truth strong enough to carry both.

If this conversation pushes your thinking, share it with a friend, subscribe, and leave a review. Then tell us: are we watching an ending, a beginning, or both?

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Transcript

Cold Open: AI Intros And Awkward Humor

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Wow, these two ladies are absolutely amazing. What did I just watch?

SPEAKER_08 1:43

What did I just watch?

SPEAKER_06 1:45

I started I started laughing in the green room thinking at first it was uh I thought it was like Katie Prishan McGrady and and Christine Harrington, and then I'm like, wait, that's me and Rob? What is he doing?

SPEAKER_05 2:01

I've had to watch it a few times because at one point he instead of that little crossbow, he had a gun, and I'd be like, no, no, no, that will get us kicked. I had to watch it like four times, and it got more and more uncomfortable each time.

SPEAKER_06 2:14

My wife hates the AI intros, she hates them, she hates the thumbnails, she hates it all.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

She might like this one though. That's so good. And the trend tag, I mean, honestly, that's like I mean, I don't even know what to say to that.

Setting The Table With Tucker’s Clip

SPEAKER_06 2:31

That was the most that was the weirdest three minutes I've ever sat through. Um, all right, so Kale Zeldon. Um, it's uh I don't even I'm like so I don't even know where to go with it because you I sometimes I'll screen them ahead of time, and Rob's like, oh, you're in for a treat tonight, you're gonna hate this. I'm like, oh boy, what are we watching? So all right, um I uh I've I've been speaking with Kale a lot behind the scenes. Um, and we've been talking about a bunch of different topics, and I figured I was like, you know what, let's just get on and let's just talk. Um, I wanted to start off the the episode with a Tucker clip because this Tucker clip, Rob, it sounds like a conversation we had on our show. And like it's it's it's really interesting where Tucker goes with it. So it's it's a pretty it's like a two-minute and 20 segment, 20 second clip. Pause it in between and like break down each individual thing, but I think it's a good jumping off point for the discussion that I want to have that we we should have tonight.

SPEAKER_05 3:38

Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Earn the status quo to usher in a new age. That's the point of this war. This is a pivot in history, and a lot of the people supporting it know that. Now they're really in two groups. Uh one are people motivated by religious impulse that would include some Israelis, some religious Jews, not all, but some. And that would include some Christians, Christian Zionists. And both groups believe that they're helping to accelerate the end of history, uh, Armageddon, the end of time, the return of the Messiah, whatever, you know, however you want to describe it. But both groups believe that history is linear, it began in one place and arrives at another with the return of God to earth, and then history ends, and we are redeemed or damned, depending. So that's the that's the basic idea. And both of these groups seem under the impression that they can force God's hand, that they can bring this about through an act of will or violence, which is to say both groups believe on some level that they are God, which they are.

SPEAKER_06 4:45

You can pause it there. So that it that that's what's so distorted about like when you get into the Christian Zionist thing, and we had that's that's part one. Don't lose the your spot on that, Rob, because the next part gets into the the tech oligarchs, and then the the final piece is what sounds a lot like things that we've said, but that that piece is like pretty integral to what's going on right now. Like we discussed the other day how even Netanyahu, who's a secular atheist, like Netanyahu's not a religious guy by any means, even he uses that language of the Amalekites, and he's doing it to whip up this religious fervor in the in in Israel because he he knows what he's doing when he does that stuff. And it's the same thing on the Christian end, but this idea that we can force God's hand is the twisted part of that. You want to play the the next part, or I will jump into and because oh, did you is your mic on, Kale? Yeah, I'm fine. I would just do that. Okay, okay. Now play the next part because I know Kale's gonna have a lot to say about this part.

Tech Oligarchs, Transhumanism, And War

SPEAKER_00 5:51

They're not in charge of history, and you can't force God's hand. He's in charge, you are not. But both groups have lost sight of that, so that's their motive. And then there are secular boosters of the war, promoters of the war, planners of the war. And their vision, while not strictly speaking religious, is not really so different. They would like to usher in rule by technology, whether that's mass surveillance, whether it's transhumanism, the merging of man and machine, but the rule of the earth by technology. And there are a lot of people who want this, and a lot of people who think it's inevitable. And this is the moment where that age of history begins with this war. So, again, this is not a war that is confined to the region. This is not a war between the United States and Israel and Iran. This is not a war designed to prevent a rogue state from getting nukes. It was never that. This is a war designed to usher in a new age of man, a new period in history, a new world. And so wars like that.

SPEAKER_06 7:08

That's all I wanted to get to because we've we've talked on this show about this, and like, yes, Rob and I have disagreed about like what that means, but we've generally when Rob and I started seeing even all the talk about like the accusations of anti-Semitism and stuff, we started seeing that the post-war consensus was wearing off, and the myth that was the the world created by the you know what happens after World War II, that that foundational myth starts to shape, and it's very it it it's um, I'm sorry, I can't get my words out. But Rob and I had had thought about it, and we were like, okay, well, they're going to need a new myth. And along with a new myth, usually comes a giant war because they need some grand narrative to pull out. So if you look at a world ending as in the flood was the end of a world, and Rob said the Tower of Babel was the end of a world, and then you look at the destruction of the temple as the end of a world. What we're coming up on now is the end of a world, not the world, but a world. So this is something Kale's been talking about a lot too, right?

The Post‑War Consensus Unravels

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah, you know, I so I think I have a slightly different Tucker lays out sort of two options for us there, right? He talks about uh, you know, the sort of the religion, religionist, the Zionist sort of portion of things, and then there's a kind of like a transhuman, you know, tech oligarch thrust to this thing. Um, I think there might be a third there, honestly, because neither of those passed my sniff test. Um, you know, I think that in a weird sort of way, I think Orangeman is kind of a realist in a in a strange sort of way. And I don't think he's a Zionist, you know, the way that's. Oh, I don't think he is either. Like a Mike Huckabee is a Zionist. And I and I think I think the whole tech thing just honestly, my read on him is that he thinks those tech guys are just kind of weirdos. Like, you know, just like full stop. Like Elon's a weirdo, you know, clearly Amadei and and and and Altman, they're all like weirdos. Like he's not gonna go play golf with these guys. You know, they're they're they're just they're just weirdos, right? So I I think I think he's a realist. I could be wrong here, of course, but I think that I am looking at this with the idea that Trump, that the post-war consensus is in fact done, and it's actually been done for you know a few years. Um I think I think that the the the sort of the Biden experiment was its last gasp. It's almost the perfect distillation of post-war consensus, like boiled into like this flabby, you know, walking dead man uh of a president. And the you know, if you recall, I mean Trump has been banging the drum about NATO since, gosh, his his his his first his first um not even his first term, but his first um when he was running for the first time. And and I I think that the the it's thread, I think the post-war consensus has been threadbare for a really long time. I think it's being propped up um for a really long time. And I think this is just him, again, I'm not saying I agree with what he's doing. I'm just trying to read the the tea leaves like like anybody else. I think he's just much more of a realist, and he's like saying, Europe, you don't matter anymore. Um you're not you're not you you haven't stepped up the plate in you know 75 years, essentially. And we're tired of paying your bills, and we're tired of of all the mess. And I so I just don't I just don't see him being anybody's B-I-T-C-H. Like I just don't, I just don't. And again, and I'm not a he can do no wrong kind of guy. I I I really mean Anthony, you and I have talked a lot offline about this kind of thing. So it's not, I'm not trying to storm in here being some sort of you know Trump Trump stan. Um, but I don't think he's a Zionist, nor do I think he's a tech oligarch. Because look, if Tucker lays it out that, you know, they're trying to push forward some sort of transhuman thing or mass surveillance state, like, hello, we live in a mass surveillance state. Like, that's already here. Right. For I mean, it's it's really been for a really long time. And um, there's a book coming out at the end of this month by Jacob Siegel called like the The Age of Surveillance or something like that, or the the surveillance state or something. Anyway, I highly recommend it. Really lays out in painstaking detail just how much we made this turn toward data and this turn toward tech, you know, really going back into the late 50s. And we live in that world, this sort of this complete this this net of surveillance tech. And so if Tucker's worried about that, I think his date is a you know, he needs to move that date for the back.

SPEAKER_06 12:15

I don't think he's saying that Trump is on either of these teams, though. Like, I think that these like Rob and I have talked about even how you had uh during Trump's first term when they uh did the Russia hoax to try and you know Russia gate came up. Like you do have these warring divisions within the Intel agencies and within with within the oligarchs and stuff like that. And I do think you're right that Biden's term was like the last gasps of that. But what I actually see happening is almost beyond Trump's control. That yeah, I don't think I don't think he's behind it, but I do think because that narrative wore off, whether whether that's I don't know if you call that the fifth, the fourth turning or something like every 80 years or so, kind of got into it a little bit with EMJ when he was on how you have he called it the the what was it, the third American Republic or something. So it starts at the American Revolution, then it goes to the Civil War, then you get World War II, and now we're at another 80-year period and you need another thing. Um I just think the way technology is advancing, and I think that the desires of of these religious fanatics is pushing things in a direction that I think is beyond even Trump's control.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Why was curious?

SPEAKER_06 13:37

I I just think that's the way human history plays out. Like, I don't, I don't it it is bizarre some of the things that Trump does, because for a guy who isn't one to be told what to do, and in some ways, I don't I don't think Trump's motives are any of those things. I don't think that they have blackmail material on him. Part of me thinks he wants another term in some way, and he thinks this is his ticket to getting it. And like Trump Trump acts like an emperor, like he's not going anywhere. He acts like he's going to live forever, and uh, you know, it's almost like he's emperor's age.

Is Trump A Realist Or A Catalyst?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

It's possible. I mean, you know, you you know, you mentioned the fourth turning, you know, the whole the Strauss and Howe book, you know. Um, and you know, they would they would say that that's very much like in play. Like what we're what we're playing out right now is that we're we've been in the death rattles of a of a dead consensus, right? And so um, and and it's interesting because as as we Gen Xers are sort of aging up and you millennials are really kind of like settling into the to, you know, neither of us care about the rules the way that the boomers care about the rules. Now that's a little bit ironic because of the sexual revolution and all that, but you know, if if you look at the way that like old conservative Inc. reacted to Trump, right? In part they were reacting to the kind of he's not being decent, like he's not following the rules, you know, he's not doing these kinds of things. Um, and I think I think that most people who are not boomers kind of were like, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:16

It was a bit refreshing.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Because the rules don't work for me, yeah. You know, and so so anyway, I think I think that that that it's very possible, you know, that we could be living in a post-constitutional um era.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

Yeah, I I agree that that I think the way that the world is going to end up going is a third direction besides what Tucker lays out there. And it's you know, when we talk about the post-war consensus, we're really talking about like the the the liberal Bretton Woods style world order that was created after World War II. And you're right, like uh uh an unnatural constructed world order like that needs a narrative behind it to survive because it is unnatural, right? And that world order is falling apart, the narrative is falling apart. I don't know if we need I I would say the the way we're moving now is the world is moving back to political realism. And I don't know if you need a narrative so much so much for that, but you definitely do need a driving force, you know, nationalism, um, you know, something like that, populism, things of that nature, um, can be the driving force.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

I mean, you you all have talked about, you know, um Fuentes before. I mean, I think one of his superpowers is he can spin a narrative like few people you and I have seen. Uh, he's really good at spinning this kind of narrative of discontent, um, which you know resonates in part. Number one, he's just talented, uh, even if I don't care for him, he's talented. Um, but number two, um, you know, he's pulling together a bunch of threads that signal that the myth of the post-war consensus is over. Um, I was talking to you guys earlier. I wonder if you could get this in. It's a book by R.R. Reno. He's actually the editor of First Things, and it's called Return of the Strong Gods. And he says this. He says, Um, if you don't mind if you'll if you'll watch it. Um he says, um uh and this is so this is all these people who are saying, like, oh, we're we're gonna we're marching into the next Hitler or the next Stalin. And he says, This is absurd. It is not 1939. Our societies are not gathering themselves into masses marching in lockstep. Central planners do not clog our economies. There is no longer an overbearing bourgeois culture bent on exclusion. Bull Connor isn't commissioner of public safety in Birmingham. Instead, our societies are dissolving, economic globalization shreds the social contract, identity pollux disintegrates civic bonds. A uniquely Western, anti-Western multiculturalism deprives people of their cultural inheritance. Mass migration reshapes the social landscape. Courtship, marriage, and family no longer form our moral imaginations. Borders are poorest, even the ones that separate men from women. Tens of thousands die of heroin overdoses, hundreds of thousands are aborted. You know, and that that to me, that is the the fall of the mythology that all of us were born into. And somebody like Puentes is really sharp because he recognizes all of those things that the myth tells us is not possible. Right? The social myth, you know, the social imaginary tells us that none of those things are possible. We can be open and we can be free, right? And you know, the the the the left wing loves sort of openness um and and and and you know loose bonds, and you know, the the so-called conservatives like freedom, freedom, you know, economic freedom, and all these kinds of things. But the problem is the thing in the middle got burrowed out, and I think that's where we are. And and in a weird sort of way, again, I don't think Trump is clearly not an intellectual, right? But I think he gets that something's done and dead and gone. Yeah, I don't know. I just think he's all right. Push back.

SPEAKER_06 19:17

I just think he's a narcissistic idiot.

Surveillance State And The New Myth

SPEAKER_05 19:19

It's interesting because well, yeah, but a lot of I I don't disagree. Caesar, you could describe as that. Uh Robespierre, you could describe as that. All these characters that end up tearing down systems tend tend to be exactly that.

SPEAKER_06 19:33

Yeah, they're not no. I think that I think he's here to destroy the system for sure, like whatever that system is. But yeah, I I I'm even thinking about the the homily the my my priest told this uh this past Sunday, where he was uh talking about the woman at the well. He he he says both forms, this priest, and he was like, I gotta kind of talk about my novus ordo homily a little bit because but he was talking about how uh the woman at the well and how like the story of the Samaritans and how the Romans, how they would um how they would disperse peoples throughout the empire to disintegrate their culture, right? Like you wouldn't put large groups of people together, you would put like these small groups of people and disperse them randomly to and it would do that to the to destroy their culture so that they wouldn't have a cultural identity anymore and there wouldn't be any revolutions, things like that. And I feel like that's what this whole um experiment of open borders and openness by the liberals is really about. It's about destroying our national cohesion and our natural culture so that it's easier to take control of this entity. Like, I I can't separate all the things we're talking about from the Christian story, whereas I feel like when I talk to Rob about this, Rob Rob sees it on a on a political uh view, which is not wrong or anything, right? Right. Like he's looking at it from like a political perspective, and all the things he says make total sense to me. And then, but when I put it into the grand narrative of the Christian story, I'm like, yeah, this doesn't end well. Well, this doesn't end well a breaking up of things.

SPEAKER_05 21:10

Like, I feel like right now we're because because like someone could have said that about the fall of Rome, you know, in the fifth century, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

But it that that was Augustine Augustine is writing exactly in that time frame, right? Yeah, the world's blowing up. He you know, he certainly felt the world was ending.

SPEAKER_06 21:30

But didn't the church see itself as the new Rome in that like Peter and Paul with the new Romulus and Remus, and they were planting a new thing. Like I I I mean that's how we see it in hindsight, at least.

SPEAKER_05 21:44

I mean, yeah, that's how that's that's why you get something like the Holy Roman Empire, right? But yeah, right, right. But they there was definitely a sense of at least a type of apocalypse going on, you know, a type of army going on.

SPEAKER_06 22:00

Yeah, because like the the the the the collapse of the Roman Empire and the falling apart of the Roman Empire is kind of like the end of the way the church originally so like when the church originally starts converting the Roman Empire and then and then and then you have Constantine converts like the church sees the Roman Empire as Christendom and the church thinks that there's gotta be one empire, and that's the idea of Christendom, that the Roman Empire just becomes Christian and that there's that's Christendom, and it winds up breaking up differently after the fall of the Roman Empire, and it becomes more of a subsidiarity type uh you know I'm not I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Honestly, I I I would defer to uh someone who is a better historian than me, but I I I don't think they think of Christendom really like that until much later. Could be wrong. I always think of Christendom as being largely a uh a medieval concept, but I don't think so.

SPEAKER_06 22:56

I think they like when they were reading the Danielic prophecies about about the the final the fourth kingdom crumbling and God making one that covers the earth, like I think the early Christians really saw Christendom as the Roman Empire converting, and then that but maybe I'm wrong, you know. I'm not I'm not an expert in this either, but but either way, like we're going to like world's ending and stuff like that. So for me, when I see this whole thing playing out now, like I feel like we're marching towards the battle of Armageddon, and it feels like Trump is some kind of a forerunner laying the stage for something to come. That's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

All right, like again, you don't have to like this guy, you know, but but it's undoubtedly the case that he is a big president, yeah, right? You know, he is not a manager, you know, he is deeply consequential, and whether he has a sense of that or not, like who knows, right? Um, but he is he's I don't know, he just strikes me as so consequential because you know think about how small his predecessors look in relation to him. Yeah. I mean, you know, and it's not that they were powerful, but they very much saw themselves as work working in, you know, that that system.

Cycles, Fourth Turning, And Power Shifts

SPEAKER_06 24:22

But um Trump seems to be taking the system himself. This is what I mean by like, I see Trump as like a Roman Emperor type figure, like you're coming to the end of the republic, and you're going to have something different. Like like the republic's been over for a long time, but what's coming next seems like I I see Trump as maneuvering to stay in power.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

I mean, I I don't I don't know if I'm crazy for thinking that it's just a just like a feeling I get, but when I see him building a triumph arch in Washington, I mean, I mean, you you and all my uh resistance friends would be uh in you know 100% agreement, Ant.

SPEAKER_06 25:01

But it's so weird that I'm thinking like this because I was a I was a MAGA guy. Like I really I really did buy the Kool-Aid.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

And I wasn't, and I wasn't, and now I'm kind of like, yeah, he's kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_06 25:14

I don't know. It I I bought the Kool-Aid, I was on board with the Trump train, and then I it was just the way I watched the first few months of his presidency play out that I was like, what whatever's happening, he's not attempting to fix anything. There's no attempt to fix the financial situation. I actually really wanted Trump to win. Fix it how, fix it how, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

In terms of terms of bringing us back to normal, you're right, he's not doing that, right? And so this is what I mean that that he's not acting in the system because he it's almost like he has a kind of again, I can be wrong, but like a gut instinct that the system itself is totally sclerotic. So why try to fix you know it's like trying to fix an engine that you blew a head gasket at all?

SPEAKER_06 25:58

So, in other words, something new must come, so there has to be a death for their protection.

SPEAKER_05 26:02

The only, yeah, the only way out is through, basically.

SPEAKER_06 26:06

Um, well, the the the reason I really wanted Trump to win, especially during when he was running, was that he was promising to end the Ukraine war. And all I kept thinking was I have a 20-year-old son, and I don't want my 20-year-old son getting drafted into some crazy thing over there, and all he's done is amplify things, and everything I've seen since that moment where it clicked for me, where I where I saw how he was behaving, and I said, I I just think the world will be at war by the end of his presidency, right? And I think that is his ticket to staying in power.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

But see, I don't think I don't think Ukraine was ever I I totally agree with you. I've got a teenage son too, right? So just want to get that out there. I never felt, however, that Ukraine was was real, right? Uh it's real, it's a war, people are dying, it's awful. I have Ukrainian friends. Okay, full stop. Okay, so um, but but you know, Ukraine is such a symbolically important country for the old regime, right? Both symbolically important and for the old world order, yeah. Oh, right, right, right, for the post-war consensus, right? It's vitally important because you know all the eggs were thrown into that basket. And part of the reason why he offends the normies so hard is that he's not he's not, you know, he's not gonna put Don Jr. in barisma. Yeah. Right. And there's a reason there's a reason why Biden was in barisma in Ukraine, right? It's all kind of caught up with you know all the finances and economics. So no, I I don't, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 27:45

I I the whole Ukraine says it was uh a deep state plot that they had concocted and they were 20 years deep, and there's no way they're letting go of it. But the upside to Ukraine was we get to see what modern warfare with Russia would look like. So we're expending Ukrainian lives, not American lives, and we get to see what a modern battlefield looks like because we've been in the freaking mountains of Afghanistan for the past 25 years, and we have no idea what a conflict with a major world power would look like versus some you know bunch of gorillas in in the mountains, right? So it's the same thing with this Iran thing where I think a I I mean, I think a lot of people had this impression that it was, you know, like the way people are talking about it is silly to me. I'm I'm listening to the libertarians go about talking about it like it's like this is Iraq all over again. It's like we're in such a different world now, man. Like all of the things they're doing in Iran are strategic against China, and what happened with Venezuela was also strategic against China. So part of me is like, yes, let's wall off our hemisphere, let's cut off their their ability to you know have energy and things like that. Because if we do hit a world war, I want our side protected as much as possible. Yeah, of course. So I see it that way. I see it in in terms of that, and I'm I'm really hoping that if war does come and it's a and it's of these big powers that the theater of war is is Europe and not here.

Nationalism, Narratives, And Strong Gods

SPEAKER_01 29:13

It'll never be here, it'll never be here, it can't, like just like physically can't be here. Like there'll be terrorist crap, of course. But there's there's not gonna be a war here ever. Not not in our lifetimes, not in our gun behind a shade of grass. How are they gonna get here?

SPEAKER_06 29:30

Yeah, you have the you have the Colorado Rockies blocking you on one side if they try to come from that side.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

I mean, it really is a disaster to come and and and like I don't know, like huge bodies of water that separate us from you know, you know, is Canada coming? Mexico, like not bloody likely, right? So I just no, I I so you know, so maybe again I'm I'm just riffing here off the top of my head, but if if you if you look at what he did with Venezuela, what he seems to be doing with with Iran, like I think I think this is like I don't know, there's some weird reset going on, and I don't understand it. I'll just be blunt. But I don't think it's I don't think I I guess where I would part is I just don't think this is like some sort of Zionist plot. I just don't, and I know I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_06 30:14

I don't think I don't think all right, so Zionist plot stuff. I I don't Israel is its own thing, like that's a that's a separate thing from what's going on around like I don't think Trump is doing it because he's a Zionist or anything. I think that I think that things are happening regardless, but like but the the the the Jews in Israel do have their own their own designs on things, like they just do.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

You and you could I would if I were a Jew, damn straight, damn straight, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:52

But yeah, because I don't want to make this show about that. I know I know I know I know I talked about that ad nauseum. It's just I I'd rather talk about because some of the things you seem to think about AI, I don't agree with either. Okay, um, and that you really seem to think that there I do I okay, so I do think there's going to be a major economic shift in the way things are done coming very soon, right? So, like AI is going to be very capable of taking a very significant portion of the jobs that we see as you know, uh especially women's jobs, right? Like most most women's jobs are basically daycare for women. Those are the first jobs that are gonna go. That that stuff like that, which is going to be an interesting thing to watch happen. Like email jobs, you mean you're just talking about email jobs? Things like that, like things secretary work, things like that. All that stuff is gonna be able to be handled by AI, I think. So I don't know what what's going to happen in that aspect when all these women are basically left not having their daycare anymore.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

It'll be generational too, right? Because it's gonna be really good for Gen X folks, it's gonna be really good for the remaining boomers and and older millennials. It's gonna really suck for Gen Z and Gen Alpha because they're gonna hire like a like take a like a uh you know a high-end law firm, maybe not the best of the best, but uh, you know, a good, good, solid law firm in one of the major metropolitan areas, you know, they're just not gonna they're gonna hire half the amount of junior associates, and then they're gonna hire a quarter of the junior associates, and then they're not gonna hire any. That's that's how that's gonna work.

SPEAKER_06 32:27

Yeah, you'll still need the top lawyers at the firm because you actually have to have a a license to practice law. So you'll still have the prosecuting attorneys and things like that. Like those will still exist, but it's the junior partners and and and the clerks and things like that that are just gonna be obsolete at that point because you could just do all your research right through right through AI.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

I mean, I mean, Rob, do you in in your in your work, do you see this? Do you see the encroachment coming in your work? There are are definitely ways it could, yeah, for sure. Um, I mean, I think you know, of the three of us, I mean, Ant, you're you're the safest for the longest term.

SPEAKER_06 33:06

I don't see AI ever being able to do my job. Ever. Like, I don't even see it in 30, 40 years being able to do what I do. I don't, I mean, it may make my job simpler. There may be better technology to do my job. The my job requires too much intricate thought for like, oh, this went wrong. I have to do, I have to problem solve. You know, it's not something you can just set in an algorithm to go, it's just not possible.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Yeah, I I don't know if that's true. Um, but I I think the time horizon, if we're talking time horizon, I think you're the safest for the longest. I'm toast.

SPEAKER_05 33:43

I I think uh a lot of healthcare is gone. Yeah, yeah. Besides surgeons, you know, anyone actually doing the have you seen robot surgeons?

SPEAKER_01 33:52

But yeah, you're yeah, you're you are correct there, too. It's insane. They they they they can they can sew up a suture on a corn kernel, yeah, like remotely. It's it's it's utterly insane. It's utterly insane.

World War Talk: Ukraine, Iran, And Strategy

SPEAKER_05 34:05

I I think there's also the possibility it all collapses in a huge bubble, though, too. Because right now, every single AI firm is operating at such a loss, right? Like all this money that's behind them, you know, they've bought the world supply of of RAM in graphics cards for the next five years with money that they've you know invested, you know, for data setters that aren't built yet, using electricity that can't be produced yet. You know, I mean it's it's all a house of cards, and if if one thing comes down, it could all come down.

SPEAKER_06 34:38

Rob, I popped a clip in the telegram, the the thing I just popped in. I want to play that real quick. Let me let me hear what you guys think about this. You gotta put it on screen, it's not on. I know I'm trying to get to the video. The man is the man is working, Anthony.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Give him a look at the colour.

SPEAKER_06 34:53

No, well, sometimes he plays it and he and he doesn't realize we we can't hear it.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

So Rob does not care about the back talk.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Where the AI specifically focused. The AI guys is really basically four guys. You got OpenAI, Microsoft, Saudi Arabia, Japan. You got Anthropic in the cluster around them, you've got Google in the cluster around them, and you've got the House of Musk in the cluster around him, potentially including Peter Thiel's resources in China. That's pretty much it, in the whole world. So it's actually kind of nice. You don't have to have a scorecard. You can you can you can remember the out of your hand? But those guys have for years been very clear that this is plausibly, most likely, a winner-take-all game. Meaning if you can get escape velocity on AI, because AI, one of the things the AI can do is it can make better AI, which we're already seeing happen. This is important. Remember, the the payload of the Manhattan Project was not the atomic bomb, it was the Manhattan Project. Well, the payload of AI is AI because AI is the Manhattan Project. Does that make sense? Yeah. And already Anthropic has talked about the fact that their most recent version was like 70% built with their previous version. Of course, right? If you're getting a hundred X improvement in software development by using Claude Code, Anthropic's going to be using Claude Code to build the next version of Claude Code. And there's only a matter of time before that starts to become closed loop by hypothesis, where the AI closes its eyes, focuses on itself for what us appears to be two days, and does two years worth of work and comes back out the other side so much more powerful that it just, whoa, what happened? And so, if any, and so this is what's happening in the Department of War, this is very important, is a negotiation between what are effectively peers at the level of power. The United States government, Department of War, is negotiating with one of the four major players in AI. Because guess who's not a major player in AI? The United States government is not on that list. They're not a major player. Now they're trying to figure out maybe how they could become a major player, but that's gonna be hard for them. Because it's democracy, it's an inefficient bureaucracy, it gets shifted all the time. And by the way, the four major players are strategically aware of what's happening. They're not dummies. So Sam looks at that and says, ooh, I could use the advantages of the Department of War to accelerate my ability, but he's not really, at the end of the day, that worried about competing with even China. Maybe, but maybe probably. I mean, China's on the board, so China's there. But he's really worried about Google. He's really worried about Elon. That's where the real game is being played because they they're not necessarily certain, but they're confident enough that whoever wins has won big T tyranny, capital T. They call it a singleton, a single dominant AI that is so smart that it can absolutely extinguish all competitors forever.

SPEAKER_06 37:53

So, and then he basically goes into saying how all of these guys all think they are the only one who is uh like they are the only ones who can hold this power because anybody else would be a tyrant with it, but they're so morally uh, you know, like the power won't corrupt them, but it could corrupt anybody else. So they're all fighting for this power. But whoever really does get this thing to pop off is going to pretty much control it, right? I mean, it's all nonsense. I don't know, I don't I don't know how much of this is not I go I talk into my phone and the stupid thing doesn't understand what I'm saying. I don't know if that's my accent or or Apple is just ridiculously stupid.

SPEAKER_05 38:36

The the idea that it's they're using AI to build the next gen of AI, sure. Maybe maybe that works in the the closed loop they're thinking, but it could also destroy itself in a closed loop, right? If if it's got some issue in it and it builds its next version with that issue, and then that version builds the next version, and it's just always just regurgitating itself. Any errors like in like in genetic code, yeah. Any error that gets that gets copied time after time, it just gets worse and worse. It's genetic entropy, it's AI entropy, is what it what it could be.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Cancer, yeah. Actually, um uh yeah, I listened to that show. I thought it was a good show. Um well, I mean, what what what is your what is your beef with it, Anthony?

SPEAKER_06 39:25

I mean, what I I just think whoever I don't know. I see all the things that I'm seeing happening on the world stage just seem like it's it's all like we're building to the crescendo of a story, and I want to I don't know what's on the other side of that story, and I don't want to stay locked into my own uh you know, where I think I'm the only one who sees it and nobody else does. So I'm always open to hearing other people's perspectives so that I don't get stuck in that in my own internal loop where I'm like because I I do want to see some hope here, and when I and you know, bringing other people on is how I try to try to see if I could bring some hope out of that.

AI Disruption, Jobs, And Generational Fallout

SPEAKER_01 40:04

I mean, if if you if you're looking for hope, you invited the wrong guest in, Anthony. I'm as I'm as sort of doom-pilled as anybody about this stuff because um you know I I think it is going to be powerful enough, you know. I don't believe that it'll be sentient, I don't believe any of those kinds of things. I can't, no. But but you don't have to believe that, right? All you have to believe is is that does it work? Right? Does it work? And I think it'll work for lots and lots and lots and lots of things. And e even the the jank, you know, models that we have access to um, you know, work. Um, you know, if if the people in the comments who are saying that it, you know, it doesn't work, you're just wrong. Um, I'm not saying it's perfect. I mean it's it's a hot mess unto itself. But no doubt that the versions that they play with in their own labs behind, you know, locked doors are way more powerful than the stupid ones that we could buy a subscription, you know,$20 a month, you know, to Claude, you know, no, there's no way. The ones that they're playing with are way more powerful. And there's just there's just I don't know how we're going to avoid massive disruptions. If we think that the social contract has been uh nullified or it's been a lie, and I think the three of us probably agree on that score. Um, you know, um you look at our kids and the world that they're facing, you know, everything's broken, right? And and you know, I I think that these disruptions are going to just just push it all off, just like bye bye.

SPEAKER_06 41:42

And what happens to the like we're already dealing with a meaning crisis, right? Like you see the reason so many young men feel like they don't have a sense of purpose now because they can't buy a home, they can't like all of that stuff is going to be amplified to a degree that we can't even comprehend right now. And that I like how does that not lead to civil war within our own country? How does that not and then once you have something like that happen, you have all these foreign entities trying to fuel the flames of that? Because the whole world would love to see America eat itself from the inside, then they don't have to worry about fighting us from the outside. Well, what's the thing?

SPEAKER_01 42:19

I mean, if if America goes under under these conditions, they there's nowhere to hide. We built this globalist world, like there's nowhere to hide. Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't say that with any kind of relish, of course. Um, nor nor with it in a kind of like jingoistic, like, you know, you know, America F yeah, kind of way. It's just like it's just true. Um, you know, and so are we gonna see like a massive constriction? Is the the sort of the standard of living gonna plummet? I mean, is this the equivalent of a kind of depression that they or worse, or worse, uh uh, you know, uh a non-die-off bubonic plague?

SPEAKER_06 43:01

Man, it's scary stuff. Um, all right, before we get to Bobby's super chat, we gotta do Nick next and uh shoplobster.com, guys. Shoplobster.com while it's lent. If you guys want uh to get yourself something good for Friday and you can't have that meat, shoplobster.com is awesome. They uh Rob and I have have agreed to take lobster as payment. It's that good. Dang, it really is amazing. So we're gonna we're gonna have them send us some stuff to decided decidedly unkosher.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

I'm just gonna put it out there. Put it out there.

SPEAKER_06 43:36

Yeah, people were saying people were saying it's like too fancy. It's like you can't, you know, it's definitely not kosher. You can't have shellfish if you're Jewish. Very Catholic Wenton meal. So uh shoplobster.com, use code AB10 for 10% off. Very much worth it. Uh, and we hope you guys checked them out. It's always good to support our sponsors. The other thing, before we even get to knickk knack, Enoch. I can't believe I forgot this.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

Come on.

SPEAKER_06 44:00

Enoch's got a fundraiser out, guys.

SPEAKER_05 44:02

Let me find it real quick.

SPEAKER_06 44:04

Find Enoch's fundraiser. Enoch uh does one. He's this is his last album, and I told him that we would help push his fundraiser over. Enoch is our brother. We gotta get this guy's fundraiser funded. He has uh features on this album that like some of the guys that came on charge like two grand for a feature. Like Enoch's not making money with this fundraiser, he's literally covering costs. I really want to see, especially our audience, jump in. Guys, if you got 10 bucks, 20 bucks, whatever you got. Enoch's got he's probably got a pin to his profile on X. Throw something his way. The guy really does put his heart and soul into his into his music, and it would mean a lot to us if like our show was the show that pushed him over the edge. He's uh he's at around a thousand. I think he set it at four. We're gonna be pushing this next episode too. I want to make sure we get this guy over the edge. So um, you got it, Rob? Yep, it's in the live chat. It's in the live chat. If you guys can, just go go throw 20 bucks to him, 10 bucks to him. I mean, instead of throwing us super chats, go support Enoch. Uh, and then knicknack.com. Knicknacks, our uh biggest sponsor. They uh look out for us, they're sticking with us. Nicknack.com. Nick Knack is a nicotine product, it is addictive and it's definitely not a smoking cessation device, but we love Knickknacks. Uh, Rob and I both like the citrus flavors, but the original we tried on air, we like that one too. So go check out nicknack.com. Use code AB25 for 25% off your first purchase.

SPEAKER_05 45:31

And uh they they did come to me today with another option potentially. We can continue doing 25% off for the first purchase, or if enough of our audience has already bought from them, they're willing to do 10% off of all purchases.

SPEAKER_06 45:48

I think we should do that.

SPEAKER_05 45:50

You think that?

SPEAKER_06 45:50

Yeah, I think so because it it's expensive to have this stuff shipped. So tell them you know, the people that were gonna try it, they they they bought their first time, but and then he they don't know where the the promo code's coming from because they can't use it for their next purchase.

Singleton Fears And Closed‑Loop AI

SPEAKER_05 46:04

True, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_06 46:06

So, like anybody that bought it for the first time from us, we don't get credit for it after that. So let's get that 10% on. So, all right, yeah, now um yeah, so uh Bobby had a super chat. We'll jump over to that. Can I say something first? Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Kev.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

So somebody in the chat was asking me what I was drinking, and I tried to type into the YouTube comment Negroni, but it would not let me type in Negroni. I think they thought they I think they thought I was being racist, but this is a lovely Negroni. I highly recommend them. It's a great cocktail, it's a classic.

SPEAKER_06 46:40

Ironically, the only reason to black pill is if you don't think it's the end. If it is the end, Christ is coming back and we win. If it's not, he's not. It's about to get really evil, and we'll need men to save us. That's scary. Yeah, Kale, where do you where do you put this on the apocalyptic scale? Because when me and you spoke privately, you you you you're a little more uh willing to go with me where you aren't really willing to go with Steve. So because you Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Um, I look I I think this, I mean, things are bad, man. Things are bad. So I tend look now. I tend to be a little apocalyptic, so I'm I'm trying to like keep myself curve that trying really hard to do that. I mean, I went, you know, when I was a young man, I went down the the the hardcore Marin Apparition route, and you know, I played all that game, and um I think it's a it it can be uh it can be a little bit twisted, but um just things are really lining up in very disconcerting ways. And on multiple fronts, right? I mean, because we've got the political situation, we've got the economic situation, we've got the AI situation, um, you know, we've got the the the men and women situation, which is absolutely massive and huge. I actually think that's the most important one personally because um it's not at all clear to me that we are going to be able to figure out how to get along again. And you know, it it's it's a it's a huge mess, as you both of you know, you know, it's just like it's it's a it's like an impossible conversation to have. And you know, I teach boy, I teach at a co-ed school, and I can just kind of see it like right in front of me. It's really tough.

SPEAKER_06 48:20

It's rough because like my son will go out, he'll go out with his friends, and he'll come home and he'll go, Dad, I could talk to a girl within five months, five minutes. I know I there's no there's no possible way of this girl. Like she's just she's just so caught up. It's it's the internet has really destroyed the brains of a lot of people, man. And it's both men and women, so I don't want to put the blame on either one, they're both just so jaded. And you know, like the the the whole red pill movement served a purpose where it was like waking people up to the dangers of feminism. But like a lot of the young guys today have lit let a couple of Muslim guys tell them how awful women are, and they're just total black pilled. Yeah, it's not a red pill, it's a black pill. They just think it's impossible every girl's a hoe, and there's nothing it's like yeah, man. I'm raising daughters, and I want to have hope that they're gonna be able to find a good man. I'm actually more hopeful for my daughters because if they bring a guy home, I'm going to help mold that that young guy who probably lacked the father figure in his life. But more worried about my son meeting a girl because these girls are just so destroyed by the internet, man. And the nonsense that's being fed. I was at my I was at I was at a family event over the weekend, and this conversation of like girl needs to provide for now. I was like, guys, this is not gonna go well. We've had this fight several times, and I'm asking you, please, let's just change the subject because it's going to get really ugly if we continue down this road. And they were kind of just like, yeah, all right, let's just let's change the subject because we've been down that road. Anytime I'm I'm out with family and they start talking about this stuff and asking my daughters what they're doing, and they need to be able to provide for themselves and this and that. And I'm like, I I just I don't have an I don't have the bandwidth right now, so we need to change it. But yeah, the the women question and the and the men question, the two of them together, that's a huge problem. I don't know how we're going to have a next generation if men and women hate one another, and they seem to right now.

Meaning Crisis And Social Fabric

SPEAKER_01 50:22

It's pretty bleak. Yeah, and you know, I think the you know, this is gonna be my bias showing up here, but you know, we are not in we are not we are living in a world, you know, of a fire hose of information, right? We have loads and loads of information and we have access to tons and tons of information. I mean, all of us carry around, you know, the the the 10x equivalent of the Library of Alexandria in our pockets at all times, right? And and yet um we don't need information, actually. You know, we need wisdom, and we don't have any all of our our all of our wisdom institutions are crap in the bed, and I include the academy and I include the church there, you know, and and um the very moment in which the church needs to um speak with clarity and depth and and insight and wisdom is the very moment where she's chosen to be um a really pathetic NGO.

SPEAKER_06 51:31

Silent and worse than silent, almost almost feeding into it, right? So it's you're still seeing more reports of these sonatal reports coming out, and they're like, Oh, what are we going to do with women in positions of leadership and all this stuff? And it's like, man, the church really just needs to tell these women, look, we're never ordaining you, you're never going to be deacons, stop it. Like they should just say, knock it off, stop it. That's it. But there's something going on in the church, and it's like the church is just impotent right now. That's what I if the church was healthier, and even if we had a figure like uh John Paul II, or if we had a figure like Benedict, I would not be nearly uh as as far along my my thoughts as I am. It's the fact that you you had Francis and now Leo just seems to just like he I don't know, I don't know. He just doesn't seem to do nothing but whatever.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

So he's he's certainly not a he's certainly not a pope of grand gestures. Yeah. And and I'm okay with that, honestly, if if if if he's gonna be doing some work behind the scenes cleaning up governance issues, which is a huge important, it's a big issue for me. Um, I think it could be a good thing, but I don't have high hopes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 52:52

Yeah, it's uh that yeah, that's that's that's kind of where I go with it.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

But and it's um but but look you so the question is like why are young why are our young people so susceptible to the spells of social media, you know, and and and I think it's because we've cut ourselves off from any sense of wisdom and the wisdom tradition, you know, which clearly obviously includes the church, um, but also, you know, education. You know, we just we don't you know we don't have a very thick story. You know, you were talking about the story of the of the post-world consensus and all that, and that's going by the wayside, but it was such a thin um weak story to superficial story, yeah, like really superficial.

SPEAKER_05 53:40

We we've deconstructed everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

I mean, we we really have. And and now I think we're finally seeing the the the the rotten fruits of that, you know, come to pass. I mean, because even like I know I was in high school in the late 80s, and in and even like most high schools, like you know, you read a little Shakespeare and you read some American novels, and you know, you had some of the basics, but all that stuff's been completely evacuated. You know, there's there's no tapping into the deeper roots of our culture. It's all lateral and superficial. Um, it's identity stuff, you know, it's all the crap. I mean, you both of you know this. Um, but I think it bears repeating because you know, there was at least a kind of narrative of the West that we all, you know, basically shared, um, but that's been evacuated. And I think we're finally seeing what happens when you raise people without a story, you know, without a without a deep story.

Sponsors, Support, And Community Plugs

SPEAKER_06 54:39

Um, and to go sending$10 in hope CKL speaking tongues at some point in the interview, the front's tuning in. Um to go back to to go back to um the Marion Apparition stuff from when you were younger, like I I did that too. Um my my mom before Y2K, my mom like had the basement stocked. Yeah. Um my parents had gone to Majigori when I was a kid, and my mom was very apocalyptic when I was younger, right? And it destroyed the faith of my brother when nothing happened in 2000. Interesting because he was like he had this anxiety thinking the world was going to end, and then nothing happened, right? And I I I kind of like I had like a little sense of that stuff, but it never scared me. Like I never thought the world was like I just I I saw our ladies' messages and I was like, man, I never saw it as like definitively happening in 2000. I always saw it as things are escalating, and I and I I did think we got kind of a reprieve there for a while. And now I it's almost like Our Lady's full and silent, and that's kind of what scares me because she did come to give us warnings earlier on in the 20th century, and then once again in the 1960s, and now it seems like she's kind of full and silent, unless you buy into Mejigori's daily apparitions, which whatever, but um, I do think it is dangerous to go apparition chasing, which is why I've kind of stuck to the church fathers and the story of scripture itself to kind of see this stuff through. But like if this isn't the great apostasy, what the hell does the great apostasy look like? I mean, you basically have the entire church falling away from the faith right now. So, what would the great apostasy look like if not this?

SPEAKER_05 56:26

Could be worse, potentially. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 56:29

Yeah, of course, but could always get worse. I mean, things can always escalate, but you know what I mean, right? Like where the where it's people are saying because people are saying that uh Vincent Amuso said it. Uh he said, Dare I say that JP2 and Benedict were also uh bad, but that's a in hindsight, it's easy to say that's a retrogro, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

It's a retrofit. I think it's a retrogate.

SPEAKER_06 56:53

It's easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time, these men were like pillars of of the you know moral clarity.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

Uh, just beside, you know, because we didn't know and they were hated, they were hated by the left. I mean, like, truly, both in the church and outside the church. I mean, they were hated, loathed, retrograde, disgusting creatures, you know. Um, I mean, I I worry, I worry about the the Marian Apparition thing as being a kind of form of um Catholic Gnosticism. Yes. Um yeah, and it was for me. I got I I just just just to speak, you know, I don't want to make too broad of generalizations there, but it it certainly functioned that way, you know, for me, almost like a kind of Catholic left behind type thing, if you remember that from from from gosh, two decades ago now. Kirk Cameron. Yeah, you know. Um so you know, but but the the the the gist, of course, is repent, pray, offer sacrifice, fast, you know, go to the sacraments, you know, those are good things. Like those are those are perennially good things.

SPEAKER_06 58:00

The cat the Catholics that apparition chase, like they get into things like even like the three days of darkness, where like your candle, if you don't have blessed candles, you won't be able to see anything. And it's like, well, how do you even light the match to light the candle if nothing but the blessed candle will light? And it is a very rapture type way to think. It's like, well, I have my blessed candles, I'm gonna survive this thing. It's like that's not really how Catholics have ever viewed this scenario. We we are to embrace suffering and things like that. Look, the the reason for shows like this are to kind of prepare people for the coming calamities that are coming, whether they're apocalyptic in nature or not, like just the on a natural level, when you're talking about the the shift that is upon us on the world stage and in our own country, the the hostilities that we're I mean, I'm in New York, we just had three attempted terrorist attacks over the weekend. Like things are going to get really, really rough over the next couple of years, especially us picking picking fights and they're framing it as a religious war, even if we're not seeing it as a religious war, the Muslims are seeing it as a religious war. So that's the kind of stuff that is dangerous. I think that's what Tucker was getting at in his monologue, where whether or not we see it that way, because we're just Americans and we're pretty, you know, we're we're nominally Christian for the most part. When when we're going and attacking Iran and and and the narrative is we have to defeat these evil Muslims, and we welcomed all these Muslims into our country. It's a dangerous situation, no matter how you look at it.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

I saw Katie McGrady was in the um, yeah. I doubt that's a really good thing.

SPEAKER_06 59:41

I know that's like when we get Jimmy Aiken in the chat.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

Go where's where's your AI? Man, I was hoping to have a conversation with AI Jimmy Aiken.

Apocalyptic Scale And Cultural Decay

SPEAKER_06 59:52

Um, all right, so we're gonna take this over to uh locals. We did our hour on YouTube. Um locals, I'll give you guys some inside some inside baseball on locals tonight.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

I can't wait to argue with you about your Twitter habit. It's gonna be great. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:08

I'll give you guys I'll give you guys a little inside baseball. We got we got some conference updates. Uh we got we got a couple things we we we got to discuss over on locals. So uh if you guys are not locals members, uh Rob will put the link up. But also before you guys go, please go support Enoch. We want to see uh we want to see Enoch's fundraiser get bumped. Um he's uh a great friend of the show. He's a great friend in person. He's uh one of the best people I've met in this space. So if there's anybody that we can throw something to, I hope it's him. So all right, yeah, we we got some tea and drama over on locals tonight. So join us over there. Take us out, Rob.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:16

This is just a way to do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:05

I I hate that in that one worse than the the intro that played. I'd rather see us as girls than that zoomer haircut on me. I know that broccoli cut.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:18

That broccoli cut is terrible. Um yeah, the um uh we gotta be very careful about what we say, but what we found out was that um uh Kyle didn't have pressure from one specific person to get rid of Mike. So I had like an hour-long conversation with Kyle. This this much I can reveal. I can't reveal like what went on on his end, but I can reveal the conversation I had with him a little bit. But I got on the phone with him and just started talking to him about stuff, and I was just like, Look, what Kyle was trying to do was get um, you know how they have that Vatican digital missionary thing. No, so the Vatican's doing this thing where they have like digital missionaries, they invited a bunch of influencers and streamers to the Vatican and Loft Loftog was there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Loft was there, and uh a lot of people there. Are we live now with local? Yeah, we're live on local. All right, cool. All right, so I but I can speak freely here, right? You can speak freely, you can say whatever you want now. Yeah, by the way, is Loftin is Lofton still alive? He is, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:27

I mean, I don't I don't think anybody watches his content.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

I haven't seen even a clip or anything forever.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:33

It is weird how he doesn't even come up in our algorithm whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

If I don't search him out, yeah, yeah, it's bizarre.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:40

But um, so yeah, so Kyle was trying to get that digital missionary thing, and he by the end of the conversation with him, he realized like how much he lost focus. He was like, he was trying to explain, he was trying to say to me, like, um, no, I still want to work with Mike in the future. I'm like, Kyle, you don't understand. Yeah, you ruined that, man. Mike doesn't want to work with you in the future. And and I'm like, he he's like, and I and I I was like, he did the same thing to Enoch last year. And he's like, Oh man, I'm gonna see if Enoch wants to come this year. I'm like, Kyle, you don't understand. You burn bridges with guys who would have died for you in battle to go and chase after bishops who don't care if you're alive or dead. Like those bit, I'm like, you don't understand the world you're getting yourself involved in. It's look what they did to Mother Angelica. Like, Mother Angelica built that network up and they ripped it from her hand. Oh, yeah, of course. Like these men are ruthless. Like, I and and by the end of the conversation, like he really did make right in private. So he I don't know what he's going to do publicly, but in private, like he he made amends privately, even like on a financial level with both those guys. So he did he did do the right thing behind the scenes, but it's like he i it's like it it he didn't get that uh you need to build your thing and make it so good that the bishops come to you. You don't build your thing like molding it to work for the bishops because they it'll never work, like it's just it's you're you're you're you're fighting a losing battle that way, and then you're just gonna make your product where nobody wants anything to do with it.

Men, Women, And The Collapse Of Courtship

SPEAKER_05 1:05:19

Um did he did he tell Mike though originally that it was due to a yeah, yeah, he was not clear with Mike. No, no, no, no, don't sugarcoat it. He wasn't just not clear, he lied, lied, yeah. Straight up lied to Mike and everyone. You don't do that if you're just not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

Like and and if it's not true, like you know, not for nothing, but like everybody got pulled through the mud on that one on the city. Yeah, but he he let Katie Katie McGrady take take the crap for days. Right, and that's that's that's craven, like that's bullshit. I mean, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's uh I you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:00

I I'm I'm not gonna I'm not standing up for him at all. I'm just I'm just like I the idea that what did he hope to win?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Yeah, what did he hope to win by disinviting Penn P he hoped it okay?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:15

So I'm pretty sure that somebody told him your chances will be better at getting that this digital missionary thing if Mike's not on it. But nobody said we're pulling out if Mike's on it. So he just did it for optics reasons, from what I yeah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:33

So entirely self-serving, not even for his organ, his organization, but for him himself personally.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:40

Yeah, listen, I'm just I'm I'm not trying to get an attack on Kyle. The conversation I had with him, he had like this epiphany moment realizing that what a mistake he made and stuff. But look, it's on him. I don't really I know it's on him. I'm not, I'm I'm just that's on him if he if he actually takes what I said to heart. But like I he I was not kind with him at all. Like I was ruthlessly clear with him. I was like, you're not getting what you did here. I'm like, you're still trying to salvage this thing. I'm like, I'm just telling you, you burned relationships with guys. I said, what do you what do you like think the purpose of this stuff is? I said, the purpose of this whole thing is about relationships, about the people you meet, the people you help. I said, here's what you're really doing: you're engendering uh envy in the people around you. And you basically made a statement saying, I'll cut anybody off if it means I get this thing over here. And what happened, what'll happen is when you get that thing over there, the people that like were around you, they're gonna want you to lose it because they're gonna be they're gonna be like this screw this guy, and they're gonna go behind the scenes to ruin what you built because you weren't good to the people on the way up. You're supposed to be good to the people that are in the trenches with you, and then if the bishops want a part of it, let them come to you. You don't you don't go and do things for the bishops and screw your screw your people.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

That's that's all so so it's interesting to me on a couple of levels because I don't even know who Kyle is, to be perfectly frank. I mean, I barely know who Mike is, I just know who Mike is through you guys, right? And yeah, you know, so my question though, so taking the bigger picture, right? I care deeply about the issue I brought up at the end of the YouTube section of this of this night, which is like men and women. Like, I really care about that, and I don't care about it for me. Like, I'm old, it doesn't matter to me anymore, but I really care about it for my kids, and I really care about it for my kids' kids, and I gotta tell you, I don't know like how can we have this conversation in such a way that can be generative for boys and girls, young men and young women, because it's it strikes me as totally impossible to do without. I mean, I mean, maybe it could just be the effect I'm on X all the time, that's where I spend my time, it's my playground, right? But it just seems utterly impossible to have this, these necessary conversations about yeah, yeah, because if you try to have it reasonably, the the there's still that group of women that will go after you and act like you're saying something so crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think it's like it's like the things I want to talk about are not about like uh it's not about like subordinating your wife to you, it's about look, this is how your marriage can flourish. But it comes off as like I'm being some chauvinistic prick, but that's not at all what I'm going to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

Do you think this is just a result? Is that all you get defined as being Tim Gordon light?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:47

So Rob and I talked about this today, actually. So um, remember Jim Russell? Jim Russell, yeah. Oh no, no, no, and he uh no oh okay, okay, okay. Anyway, my my conversation with Rob was basically my conversation with Rob was basically I don't want to be mixed in with this patriarchy conversation. Yeah, it's like I don't I don't want to be mixed, I don't want to be mixed in with it because I don't talk about it, but it's we don't want yeah our thing, no, yeah. I don't mind talking from experience or if something specific comes up, but I don't want to be in the patriarchy conversation because Tim has managed to make a caricature of all those things he like he's made a caricature of it, and Tim has done some amazing research and work, and the stuff he's done is really brilliant, but the way he comports himself online has made a caricature of it. And the the the the like I like I'm bombastic online, but the way he goes about it, it's not like it's not even tone policing, it's just he's made the message undigestible. It's like you want to vomit it out of your mouth because of the way he handles it. Even if you agree with him, yeah, even when you agree with him, yeah, and I like him and I agree with him, and he's my friend, and I and that's how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

Yeah, because I I find it it's so you know, it's so funny for someone who like throws it around the fake and gay thing all the time, you know, it's like that like bombastic, you know, shteck um to bring in some good Yiddish for the conversation, um, you know, is just I mean it's just dumb. It's not helpful. It's just it's like if if you care, like honestly, if you care about patriarchy, you know, and I do, like what do you think you're doing? Like, seriously, like what do you think you're accomplishing by making yourself a cartoon villain?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:43

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:44

You know, because I mean I'm not and I'm not talking about like winning over like Erica Bakayaki and and and you know, some of these, you know, academic um Catholic feminists or whatnot who are actually like not they're more conservative than they are, but you you you know, you know, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:02

Yeah, the Melody Lions. Like, I don't care if I win Melody Lions over. It's not about that.

Wisdom Deficit And Failing Institutions

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Right. So so then, you know, but like what about all these like normal people who might actually be sympathetic to this stuff, and you know, and they should be sympathetic to this stuff. I just don't get the shtick. You know, it's like I get it, you know. X is a game, it's just it's just a weirdo video game for weirdos like me and you, right? I mean, it's fun, but but but what do you what do you I mean I I I I honestly just want to know what I wonder it too. I wonder if you think he's accomplishing, or is it just fan service? Is it just fan service?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:45

You think it's a dangerous if he was a politician, people would claim he's a you know uh a controlled opposition, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

Yeah, how how can we make patriarchy be like the stupidest, fakest, gayest thing ever? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:58

It's like Candace, it's like Candace Owens with anti-Semitism, like that's really, really what it is, right? So he's yeah, he's made a caricature of of some really important work that he's done. And it's I don't know. I mean, I I don't know if I could even like talk to him about I don't know, he's not doesn't seem like he's open to like I don't know, whatever. I don't I don't want to get into a Tim Gordon thing because I like the guy, it's just it it's I don't want to be associated with it, I'll tell you that. You know, that and that's coming from me who's like a bombastic guy on Twitter, but like I I make sure like I don't ever go for I don't ever try I try not to hurt people personally, right? So I might make a joke about women, I might make jokes at Protestants, but I try not to like go for the jugular on anybody specifically, and I'll see Tim do things like calling somebody a faggin and this and that, and I'm just like I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

I just I just don't get it. That's what I mean. I know I totally agree with you. I just I think it's um and and if again if if if we have any hope of giving you know our kids uh a way of negotiating you know the absolute batshit insanity of TikTok and Instagram, you know, and and it's real, man. You you know it. I mean, like like how in any is this helping or hurting? I mean, it's like it's kind of a simple heuristic. It's like are you helping or hurting? And I just I I for the life of me, I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:21

Um yeah, I don't know. I don't man, probably a better conversation to have offline, right? I'm sorry, I don't I don't know it's not that like because I don't ever I don't ever want there to be drama between me and Tim. It's uh it's not like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

Like I'm not I'll take the heat.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:34

I'm not I'm gonna but I'm saying I'm not speaking to gossip about Tim with a Ryala anger towards him. Um some some of the things he does, I'm just like, what are you doing, dude? Like, all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:44

So so so so tell me this, right? So you you brought up Melody and we brought up Mike, right? Like when Mike dropped the go make me a sandwich line. I mean, like, helpful or hurtful. I think I think melody is so okay. Good. Remember, it's not just melody, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:03

That's the problem is people watching in on it, but like it's public, yeah. Yeah, no, he probably should have chosen better words there. Don't get me wrong, but he's not typically Mike doesn't do that. That's the thing. Mike is not the caricature Tim is. Mike is Mike is usually very careful about what he puts online. He just, um, I think she just got to him because she was screenshotting him all day and making a mockery of him, and like eventually you get to the point where you want to punch back. Same thing happened to me with Father Lovell. Father Lovell. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'll give you guys I'll give you guys a little backstory on Father Lovell. So, um the father Lovell situation, he asked me to speak at the cancel priest conference in 2023. Yeah, and I was really grateful. That was that was my first opportunity to speak.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:47

I just want everyone to know this is now the second conversation on locals that An said that we could never have publicly. Uh-huh. Father Lovell's stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:00

Well, unless you're Anthony on locals.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:03

I know what I can and can't say. I know what I can and can't say. That's so, I mean, I kind of made it public the other day, but also this is why you guys join locals. You want to hear this stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:10

So I know I'm letting people know they're getting their money's worth.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:13

Yeah, you're getting you're getting stuff I'll never say on YouTube, that's for sure. So the T. So Lovell asked me to speak at the conference. I was super grateful. It was my first time public speaking. I made a ton of connections at that thing. It was like it was a really great experience, right? So we come back from that, and I have plans to have him on my show.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:33

This is the white t-shirt, white open shirt picture I have of you that I tweet from time to time. Yeah, you go one of these. Oh, it's a great idea. Stop it, it's gay.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:42

Stop it, it's gay.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:45

So, yeah, I mean, without this conference, you don't have Hitchborne talking about dinosaurs on Babylon.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:50

Yeah, that's where I met Hitchborne. That's where I dude, I made so many friends that are now part of our show.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:56

So I was really grateful to him. And then he he comes, we come back from the conference, and I have him booked to come on the show in October, and then he gets ousted from his organization. Now he gets ousted from his organization, and I hear a bunch of stuff that's being said behind closed doors that I can't say because like that's never come out publicly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:17

Now he's a priest. Well, if if I'm not wrong, this like the the canceled priest thing falling apart happens the day we were gonna have him on, I think, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:30

The day we were gonna have him on, like mornings before or something like that. Yeah, and we just basically just didn't even acknowledge him and didn't bring him on. And that was actually a courtesy to him because I didn't wanna I didn't want to bring attention to it. I didn't want to add my two cents into it, I didn't want to give what I thought, but I had heard things behind behind the scenes about some of the things he did. And this is a priest. We went through the priest scandals. I'm not about to go and stick my neck out there for a guy that I'm hearing these stories about. Like it's just not gonna happen. I'm not gonna go and and and oh, I gotta stand up for this reach just because you did something for me there doesn't mean I owe you some undying loyalty publicly when I don't, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna have my reputation taken down because you you want me to do that.

Hope, Boundaries, And Practical Faith

SPEAKER_05 1:18:19

Approximately around the time a lot of people kind of look stupid standing up for Father Jackson. Right. It was not that not that Laval is an idiot. No, no, no, Lava's not accused of anything like that. Meaning of that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:32

Yeah, no, Lava's not accused of anything like that. Let's be clear. That was it's more like this. It's more like I witnessed behavior that made me realize that the the priests who are canceled who are out there saying I was canceled because I was traditional, they weren't canceled because they were traditional. They're canceled because they're manipulative. And they have no business. Yeah, some of them for sure. Uh they have no business being the the guardian of souls because they'll take advantage of people. And it's like manipulative behavior and things like that, and putting pressure on people. And I witnessed that in my in my personal experience with Lovell. He would start sending me texts and like novel long texts, and then he started saying stuff publicly, and I kept my mouth shut through all of it. I didn't get into the fray, he just kept pushing it, pushing it. And that the other day was like the fifth time he publicly called me a coward for abandoning him. And I just had had it, right? So I think Mike was in a similar situation with Melody, and I was just like, This guy, this is the fifth time he's got something to say about me, and he doesn't want to hear what I have to say because I'll destroy whatever credibility he might even still have out there. It's like you just saw me make that video about Kyle, and you thought I'm a guy to you think I'm the guy you want to pick a fight with. Like, I you don't want to pick a fight with me. I'm I'm nice to people, and I don't ever want to start fights with people. When someone starts something with me, I'm not somebody you want to like leave that boy alone, don't play with him. So, yeah, uh yeah, but yeah, you're right. In that it you our social media, sometimes we think it's just us talking, and you don't realize the wider ramifications of the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:17

And and and some of the things that I've I've had to learn about it is that like some you know, most of the time you think you're playing social media, but there's this weird way in which social media plays you, right? It's like this weird way in which X, you know, my my drug of choice, it's like I think I'm in control of my habit, but there have been times where like it's taken me over, and I'm like, I'm playing on its terms, you know, it's not playing on my terms. And I see that a lot. It happens to all of us. I mean, to be fair. I'm I'm I'm not I mean, I realize I'm throwing rocks from glass houses and all that, but um yeah, that that's that was a that's an unfortunate thing because I mean I mean what are those folks gettable? You know, the ones that you know the which one uh I'm sorry, yeah. You know, like again, I I don't want to make this show about Melody, but like Melody and people like her, like are they are they gettable?

SPEAKER_06 1:21:19

I mean no Melody, we shouldn't even we shouldn't even concern ourselves with her.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:24

All right, I'm just I'm just curious what y'all think. I mean, um you know Melody because I've kept it pleasant, you know, I've kept it very pleasant.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:32

I I used to be pleasant with Melody, and the thing is uh because there's something so distasteful about a woman who thinks it's her mission to fix the behavior of other other men, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:47

And it's just so just say that again because I think that's I think I I get that from you. Like I I very much understand that that is like one of your North Star.

Locals Aftershow Tease And Sign‑Off

SPEAKER_06 1:21:58

It's just like it's like who are you? Like why is it your mission to correct the behavior of men that aren't your husband? Like, I can get it if you're if you're if it's your husband, you're upset about something he's doing, but you made it your mission to go and correct other men, and it's just it's a bizarre behavior that very select women have taken their it's like their duty, and it's like I really think that men should be dealing with men and women should be dealing with women. I quote a bunch of crap because I tweeted against Pine sap for saying, like, I I like there was a video of a girl talking about how she's still a virgin and guys are all there, and they give her the ick. And I'm like, look, we have to change this conversation because if you just blackpill on women, I'm not saying it's not a disaster. I understand the disaster you guys are in, but so much of this conversation has been shaped by these Muslim guys with platforms like the Fresh and Fit podcast and and the whatever podcast, and it's like it has jaded you men so bad that you think there's no hope whatsoever. Brian Atlas is a Muslim, no, not Brian Atlas, but Myron, Myron Gaines and the other guy, and then Andrew Tate, right? Yeah, yeah, okay. And Brian Atlas is an atheist, so it's like we've we've allowed these men to put on these OnlyFans stars, and we think that all women are like this, and it's like there are a large segment of women that are like this, don't get me wrong, but that's but complaining about it is not helping anybody. And my main concern is these young men complaining about it on the internet. What you're what you're putting out there is this perception to women that ew, you just want a mommy, like this guy isn't going to take care of me, he just wants a mommy. And I want you guys to meet a girl because your life is actually, you know, if you meet the right person, you can actually have a fruitful life, and it could be, you know, yeah, but having oh god, and just remember, like, you know, that's the path for like 90% of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:55

Easily, right? And so what we what we can do to help help men and women, young, young men and young women, you know, find that path is like just so important, you know, and so so the black pill thing is is I mean, I don't know, man. You know, it's like it's the it's almost like the worst thing. Yeah, for sure. You know, because we should love women, actually, you know, and and and to think that all women are liliths, you know, is is um really not a good thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:31

I mean, I know I'm saying the obvious no, no, it's not no, because I see it look, and I think Fuentes has poisoned a lot of these guys too, to think like that, right? Like it's like all women are terrible, and it's like there are good, there are good girls out there for you guys, man. You just gotta find one. And and look, you the idea that you're gonna find some virgin, like you might even have to get that out of your head. Like, people made mistakes. I'm not saying go marry an OnlyFans girl, but of course, no, like you have to be realistic at the world we all grew up in, and you might have to find a girl that made a mistake or two. I'm not saying 10 mistakes, no, a mistake or two. A girl who you like you can't just cross a girl, like the the way these guys have been programmed is to think that girls are spoiled and irredeemable if they made a mistake in their lives, and that's like you're you're going to be alone forever, and I don't want that for any of you, right? Not all of you are gonna meet your high school sweetheart, and if you're getting into your 20s, that's the situation you're dealing with.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

So have have like a bit of a and I just think that's so important just to tell guys, you know, like have a realistic view of the world because because it's also like well, what about you? You know, you know, you know, we you know, when you're in your late 20s and you're not married, like there's a high chance that you've messed up.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:43

You got a got you got a lot of baggage, buddy. You got a lot of baggage, and even if you didn't sleep around, you still you're you're you're born happy, whatever. It's like you are just as damaged. So it's like if you're not gonna work to and and my my my my main thing is like you guys are Christian men, yeah. Go and change the world. Like, don't don't fall for the psyop that it's hopeless because we can't be hopeless. We are the people of hope, like we are we take the Christ pill, forget the white pill. There has to be hope, and there has to be redemption, and there has to be a way forward. And the only way forward is for us to start working on fixing some of the mistakes the past generations made. But if we're not willing to start doing it, who the hell is you gonna leave it to our kids to do? And you can't even have kids if you keep this attitude, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:27

Yeah, what kids? Yeah, what what kids? Um, why did the chat why did I lose the chat? Can I I y'all can't I can't see the chat by the way? Just just are you on low?

SPEAKER_06 1:26:38

No, because that's you're on you're in stream.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:40

It's fine, it's fine, whatever. I mean, I'm sure if something juicy pops up, you can let me know.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:46

Um, yeah, I just I and it like when when I posted that, I call I all the guys are like, Oh like man, I'm not naive, guys. Like, I I'm watching the same stuff you guys are. I know exactly what's out there. I'm just telling you, you gotta it our attitudes have to change, or nothing will ever change, and we have to approach this whole conversation differently. And I think and I I look at it like I'm raising two really good girls, and I want them to find a good man, and it's and the way these guys talk, I'm like, I wouldn't let my daughters date any of you. Oh, like I wouldn't let any of you court my daughters, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:20

Because you because you could because for your daughter, you want a man. I mean again, I you know, you know, I I've brought I'm gonna get like physiognomy check in in the in the in the in the chat. It's just like, or that's probably more on Twitter, but um, you know, it's like I want I I need my daughters to marry a man, a man, right? You know, a man. And and and we don't have to pretend like we don't know what that means, yeah. You know, nor does it mean you some sort of like weird cartoon, you know, clavicular cartoon or what have you. Right? It's um but who's gonna who's who's voicing that, man? Who's like like seriously, like who's voicing that? Like I Don't know I'm an unk, so I can yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:03

I try, I don't know. I try to because that's I'm so worried that like I'll become a caricature myself. I'm so worried that people I'm just putting on some money. No, no, no. See that you've been one since the beginning, so you've already it's perfect, but well, like Kale said, like we we all play with carefully curated prophylactic.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:24

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:25

We all play with it. Like, I have a little more fun with it than most people. Like, I it kind of you know, there's tons of sarcasm in what I say, and I try to be goopy and stuff. But when I'm when I'm talking about this topic, like I don't want to be the the the caricature of masculinity where it's like, oh, I'm being some macho macho guy. That's not really what it is because I really was I was always masculine. Yeah, I wasn't always a man though. Like in my 30s, I was a boy playing at manhood, I didn't understand it. It really did take until like my late 30s when I started to understand what it meant, and what it really meant was becoming a priest in my home, like caring for the souls of the people in my care. And you know, if I could if I can help younger guys embrace that in any way, that's what I would really like to do. I don't want them to, it's not a it's not a uh it's not a formula of wives, you have to stay home. Like, that's not realistic in a lot of situations financially. Like what I would urge you guys to do is if you have daughters, like urge them to get a job that will maybe they'll be able to do from home to assist their husband because you really probably will need two incomes going forward. So it's got to be realistic in that not everybody can afford to have their wives stay home and do nothing. I'm fortunate enough to do it, but I you know, my like I sent my my older daughter is doing an esthetician school and she's going to try and develop a client base and hopefully have a little place in her home when she gets married where she can to the house, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:52

That's right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's so funny. You know, I you know, I y'all know I teach at a prep school, you know, it's a co-ed prep school, and um we just don't talk to the girls in any meaningful way about anything other than just pretending they're boys boys with tits. Like you know what I mean? Like, do you know what I mean by that? It's like just interchangeable, it's all the same, right? And it's just so weird, you know. And I look, you know, I I break the fourth wall quite a bit, um, you know, with my students, and like, well, you know, and you sort of say some things, and it's like I can't tell you, like people will come, you know, kids will come to me like, man, thank you for saying that, Mr. Zelda. And you know, I I you know, and I'm like a pretty light touch, honestly. Yeah, um, but nobody like their parents don't talk to them about this.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:45

I have such deep conversations with my daughters about stuff, and um like I am I tell them every chance I get to the point where they get annoyed with it, yeah. But like I let them know I'm like your father loves you too much to ever let you go down that path. Don't you dare like I constantly am talking to them about stuff, and I know no other fathers are having those conversations with none, zero, not my brothers, none of them, none of no men that I know talk to their daughters like that. They'll spoil them and then you know, daddy's princess, and then when the boyfriend comes over, they'll put the gun on the table, like, oh, you better not do that. But that's it's nonsense. It's like if my daughter meets a guy and brings him home, I'm going to embrace him and treat him like like I'm going to mentor him and teach him what it means to because especially when you see the dynamic between me and my wife, like a lot of people see that and they want that, you know, it's like we get along really well, we love one another, our families, like my kids like being around us because we're we're we're pretty normal about things and we have fun together. And it's like I I want to try to I want to try to translate that to the younger generation so they see that like it is possible. You just you know, and it's I'm not some super macho guy in my home, you know. I don't need to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:04

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:04

I'm just me.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:09

Um, Bobby said, I've seen it firsthand. He's great with his daughter's boyfriend.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:20

How is he with his sister's uh boyfriend? Bobby.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:26

Let's not get into that. What's sad about uh so Bobby all right? So Kale, I met Bobby in Italy. He came on the first pilgrimage, yeah. And I developed such a good friendship with him that I invited him to meet me in Pennsylvania when I was there with my family. So, like he came on a couple of family vacations with me and met my family, met my wife's family, and now he's uh I he came up for New Year's this year, and I introduced him to my sister. Now him and my sister are dating. Come on, yeah. So Bobby's 33, my sister's 31, and like I was like, let's let's put these two together, and they're gonna get off great. So now, so now he's seeing my sister, and he's come he's come to like visit her like two or three times already. And every time he comes, like, we don't even hang out now.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:13

Oh bummer, my sister stole my friend.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:16

I'm pretty annoyed about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:20

Hey, but but but for a good cause, but for a good cause, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:24

Yeah, but that's but that's another thing. Like Bobby's in his 30s, and he, you know, he probably was starting to get black pilled too, right? And he's like, Oh women are terrible. Because he he was doing the dating app thing and he was doing Catholic match, and he was trying, and he met a couple of girls, and he was just like, Every girl is such an airhead, I'm never gonna meet somebody, and then you never know what God has in store for you, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:45

It's like he he met my sister, and now they're but you you you you you really need to make sure that you're excuse me, that you're in a in the right space, head space, moral space, grounded, you know, for those moments when when when God's gonna put somebody in front of you, you know, and like that's something you can preach to the guys, right? It's like you don't know when when it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:12

So my son, I hope he's not down here. My son was was dating a girl um when he was like 19, yeah, and it started getting like really serious. And he broke up with her, not because he didn't like her, but because he was afraid it was getting too serious, and he's like, I don't I don't think I can handle like I don't think I can handle the the the temptation and the pressure, and he broke up with her and I was like so proud of him that like he knew himself enough to know like I'm not ready to be a father, I'm not ready to set a family up yet, I still need to figure out some things financially before I do that. So they broke up, and now he's doing this welding program and stuff, and he'll go out with his friends occasionally and he'll like meet somebody, and he's like that. I I talk to a girl for five minutes, and I know it's you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. This girl's an airhead, this girl's already, she's just looking to have a fun time. This one he can't meet somebody of substance, it's really hard for him. I feel bad. Did the uh did it at least end well enough with the other the other girl to where yeah, and she's a couple years in the future, he could so and and and I think she's like waiting for him, but like he knows himself enough, you know. It's it's it's so weird because like my dad didn't raise me like that. Like I grew up, I grew up just doing whatever the hell I wanted, and it's like I raised my son to never mistreat women, like for all for all the macho crap that people may have this impression of me. Like, I raised my son to not mistreat women. It's like you'll never be that guy that just runs through girls. My son's very good looking, he's in jack, like he could be doing that.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:53

He's charismatic, and yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:55

He's like he's he's like I was when I was his age, and it's like he has friends that break chairs, but other than that, yeah. But he sees his friends doing it, and his friends that do it, he's like he sees how empty it is. Like his his friends are are at at college and they're sleeping around and stuff, and like they're all having a meaning crisis. All of his friends, and all of his friends come and talk to him because they see him and he kind of he looks like he's got his crap together. And meanwhile, he's just trying to figure it out too. But he's not depressed, he's not my son's not like uh terminally online, yeah. Like, I'm more online than my son. It's pretty bad, you know. Like he's not. I don't know. I'm really proud of my son. He's like, he's such a good kid, man. But these conversations, if you do have teenagers, are important, especially with our girls, man. Like do you hear every story? Like the girls that do behave like that, it's because they're yearning for their father's love that they didn't get. So it's like to tell your daughter you love her constantly is such an important thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:58

I mean, seriously, yeah, I I can't stress it enough because you because I certainly see it in the absence of it, you know, with the kids that I teach. Not all of them, you know. I'm not I don't I don't live, I don't work at a horror show to say the least, but still.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:13

Yeah, that lack of love and affection too. Like if you're not affectionate with your daughters, like my 15-year-old daughter will still come and sit on my lap and she's silly and stuff. It's like she has to feel comfortable like that to know that she she gets love and affection from her father, you know. And yeah, I know so many, so many girls growing up that the father left, and those are like those are the worst mess, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:34

It's just well, because they're always looking for it, right? I mean, you can and you can really see it, you know. It's like they need it, they need they need male attention, and like it's our job as dads, like give them male attention that has no strings attached, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:50

It's like well, I think so much of the way fathers raise their daughters in the past generation has led to uh like fed into this feminism. And this is why I went on that rant the other day when I was talking to Nick Cavazos, and I was trying to get to the point that like girls don't want a boy who's looking for a mommy, girls want a father, and it sounds creepy, it's it sounds weird, but they do, they want a father figure, not not in an incestuous way. They want a father, they want a patriarch. Yes, that's really what they want. They want a patriarch who's gonna guard not just not just the finances and provide because my dad did that great. My dad was, you know, he was your typical man's man provider for the family. That's what they really want. They want a man who's gonna guard their soul, make sure he doesn't lead them down a dark road, and that she knows she can put all her trust in him because he'll he'll he'll take care of her. And it's something none of us really learn from our fathers. It's really difficult because we were robbed of it. So learning that in the past couple of years has really been helpful. And it's I and I I never want to sound like I'm like bragging or anything because this was a very difficult process for me to learn this stuff, and it wasn't easy to learn, and it was a lot of mistakes along the way. But if I knew it when I was 25, my life would have been a lot easier, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:12

Um a good father is a good husband for yeah, absolutely. That too. Like, um, how many how many marriages are in turmoil because the the kids pit the parents against each other, and then the kids go to the mother to get because the father will say no to something, they go to the mother, the mother gets says yes, and now the parents are fighting with each other. It's a dynamic that has kind of just flooded our culture, yeah. It's it's metastasized. Well, the way they make a mockery of men in every TV show and all that. So it's it's it's we're all susceptible to propaganda, every one of us.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:51

Like you may think you're not, oh, I'm I'm impervious to it. Every one of us fall for propaganda, and it's just like Kale was saying with the X-Speed where it controls you sometimes. Every one of us falls for that crap. I found myself like watching a video on times two speed the other day, and my wife looked over at me and she's like, You have such like Twitter brain rod. She's like, How are you even listening to that at two times? It was like hard to ever eat. It was hard to ears because it was like, and I'm like, holy cow, I have TikTok brain, like it's so bad. Uh like man, I should have uh, I really gotta take a I I've been good about like my weekends when I'm home. I I don't go on social media, but when I'm at work, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:36

Bad all of the day, all of the day. It's terrible.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:43

Um all right, is there anything uh is there anything else that I said we were gonna talk about over here?

SPEAKER_05 1:40:51

Um no, you've only spilled the two T on two things you probably shouldn't have, but it's about an average.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:59

Yeah, that's about right.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:00

The the problem with like I hope people don't watch our show at times two because you miss a lot of the plus you already talk at damn times two, but you miss a lot of the inflection of the joke when you're listening at faster speed. That's true, right? Like like jokes and timing and inflection has a lot to do with how how uh how things are perceived. So if you're listening to our show at times two, you're missing you're missing some of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:25

But uh, what was your question? So uh what do you how do you deal with constant rejection is was his question.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:32

How do I deal, or how does he deal with it? Oh shoot, I would imagine how do you deal with it? Um you gotta kind of get impervious to it, where it's just like he.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:45

What's the situation?

SPEAKER_06 1:41:46

I don't know because I like what's your situation? I was always good at handling rejections. It's like I just kind of like rolled off my shoulders. I didn't care, like I still get rejected on like in in in times where I want to get somebody on the show or something. It's like I just don't you have to not care what people think, and that's a difficult thing to do. It's hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:06

If you're not natural to it, it's hard.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:07

It's a it's a tricky thing to do, and a lot of people that are like uh public person have a public persona are very sensitive, and they probably shouldn't have a public persona. I genuinely don't care what people think of me, especially if it's some idiots on the internet. It's like I don't care what some anonymous guy thinks of me, I can't care what my wife and children think of me, I care what God thinks of me. And beyond that, I am who I am. You like me, you like me. You don't, you don't, but that it took a little time to get there because when we first started doing the show, me and Rob, you'd read one negative comment early on, and it was like, Yeah, totally, oh my gosh, every not everybody likes me, and now I'm just like totally, I don't care who likes me, whatever. Um wise friend once said getting rejected by by girls is like sin. You feel bad the first time, but then you get desensitized after the first time. Well, I don't know. I've never been, I don't I I've uh Molly's asking being rejected by women, but I I don't know. It's it's a hard one for me to answer. It's been quite some time.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:13

I mean, yeah. I mean, you guys have been together since what you were like 15 or 14.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:19

So yeah, we were together when we were I got a candle in her sweet six. I mean, we broke up in between you're obvious to each other when you're kids and stuff, but yeah, like I it's not like I it's like I'm I mean it's been over 20 something years since I've gotten rejected by a girl, you know, 25 years or something. I mean, it never feels good. No, you do you gotta just get used to it. Lift heavy things, Vajarian said. Just lift heavy things. Yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah, your funeral, your grandmother's funeral gossip. Yeah, bring it, bring it. Had that go. Yeah, I didn't even ask you about that. I'm sorry. Let me tell you. Oh man, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:58

It was as as Boomer Novas Porto as the first off, the family decided that they wanted a private funeral. Because I guess we shouldn't let other people come to pray for grandma. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:14

Um, let's see. Um one of my one of my cousins' kids brought the Eucharist back to the pew, and we had to check with her to make sure she consumed it after. The another another cousin's kid got it and didn't know what to do with it as he was standing there. So this is of course because the priest did not say anything about you know, make sure you're practicing Catholics. Matter of fact, he more uh how did he put it? Um are welcome. Uh yeah, like if your uh if your something like if your faith tradition is to come up for comedian, please come, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:56

Oh my gosh, yeah, yes. Rob Rob before he went, somebody in his family told him, Look, there's a possibility there there will be a rainbow flag. Rob I'm freaking out.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:09

He's like, I might have to I might have to go to jail for cutting a flag. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:17

Yeah, so he he's he's literally like, dude, he's like, I'm going to be despised by my family. You don't understand. He's like, I'm going to be the villain in my family. I'm not going to my grandma's funeral if there's a freaking flag on this church. Because, like, if there's I'm sorry, but if there's a rainbow flag on your church, like your church is serving Satan.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:35

Like, it's not it's it's one thing if there's maybe a a flyer inside, but yeah, yeah, if if the flag is if the gay flag is risk, you know, put over the church, then no, that's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:47

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:48

So yeah, it was it was rough. Uh, yeah, the only people who didn't receive communion were me, my wife, and then my my friend uh Jake, who drove up from Kansas City for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:01

Well, that's irony. That that is irony.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:04

The only actual practicing catalyst. Right, I don't think that session are the ones that don't receive. Right. Yeah, yeah. Um, me and my wife kept playing the uh whenever one of the kids needed something, we would try to be the one to have to take the kid out because we don't want to be in there at all. Like at one point, no, you take it out. Yeah, right. At one point, bash has a blowout, and my wife's pointing, like, there's poop right there. I'm like, I don't care, I'm taking it, I'd rather deal with this.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:34

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:36

I mean, um, but the the one thing I was really proud of was uh was my oldest, um well in his little brother, but so like my mom and I have always been really close because my dad had been sick with MS since I was a kid. Okay, so you know, all the stuff we went through, like I was always there for my mom, she was always there for me. You know, we always lent up, you know, leaned on each other through everything. Sure. But here at the funeral, like she's physically down at the other end of the pew while I'm dealing with my two youngest. I just couldn't physically be there for her. So every time I looked over at her, you know, make sure she's doing right. My oldest was right there holding her hand or putting his arm around her or patting her on the back. Yeah, and I didn't I didn't tell him to do any of that, he just he knew to do it, and that made me really proud of him.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:27

That's so cool. Yeah, your mom's got a beautiful relationship with your kids, Rob. Yeah, she does, she really does. She adores those kids, so it's like yeah, man, the family stuff and funerals, and it's just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:43

Growing up, we were the only Catholics in my extended family. Because my mom is just one of two, and her brother didn't get married, so it was just us, and then my whole dad's side of the family, they were just like nothing, like literally just they were nuns before we had a category for nuns, right? And uh, so it was just always, you know, we were just we were the Catholic freaks, and so like you know, just what we did.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:12

It's it's interesting because my fine my family dynamic is like very Catholic. Like we go if we go to my mom's for dinner, like we all play, we pray grace, like it's like it's a very Catholic uh uh atmosphere in my family, but I do have siblings who are atheist or that you know are whatever. But that for the most part, I always have somebody like we uh I saw my family on Saturday, and it's like uh, where are you going to church tomorrow? Where are you going to church tomorrow? I'm going Byzantine, I'm going to the Latin Mass, I'm going here, you know. We we do have a very Catholic ethos in my home, despite the few that don't go, you know. Yeah, so I'm I I probably take that for granted, but it is it is nice that even anytime we go to any kind of family functions, I always have some Catholic conversations with my family.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:01

I mean, what's wild for me though, like within my immediate family, so I'm one of three boys, and all of us mom and dad are daily communicates. My my younger brother's a priest, my older brother is like a Latin mass guy, and his whole, you know, and his whole family. So it's like like and that's like that's pretty unusual. Yeah, all of us are your brother's a recent uh priest, too. Yeah, yeah. He's yeah, he he got ordained in June, but he's you know, I'm 53, he's fit, he just turned 50. So he had a late vocation, man. Yes, but he was a lawyer for 20 years, you know, and then uh entered the seminary. So and he's he's loving it. He's having he's he's perfect, dude. He's he's great. I gotta meet him. Yeah, Josh is Josh is great. He's I have to meet him. Yeah, he he's the real deal.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:51

I'm gonna have you down this summer, Cal. I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna have you down.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:56

Do you want me to drive all the way around? Let's do it. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:59

We'll f we'll find. Figure it out. I definitely want to have you down this summer, man. Um, yeah, I didn't want tonight's show to even go to the Amish conversation. It's like we did that enough. I didn't I didn't even want to talk about that tonight. I I was interested in just uh Yeah, just talking about like that. It feels like the world events are just getting like crazy, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:22

No, it is it is crazy, but I just I think you know, just to sort of do a quick thing on that, I you know, everything that we thought was normal growing up is probably not normal. And so everything we're seeing now, I think needs a little bit of a reframe, you know, that um all the rules that we thought were, you know, etched in in in the stone like the tablets of Moses are are not. And I think we're what we're watching unfold is a kind of weird Rob, I think you're right. I think there's a kind of a realist reset here. Um you know, and I have no idea how we're gonna emerge from it, you know. So I'm not I'm not trying to pretend like you know, Trump's the plan, you know. I I I I I don't really, but I I I do think that um normal, you know, sort of you know, the normal protocols were increasingly absurd. And and I think we're seeing it kind of break apart, you know, and maybe there's a bit of an accelerant there, yeah. Um, but I do think that um things are resetting and it's it's always painful and it's always gonna be evocative and there's gonna be war, like Anthony said. Like it just it's just gonna happen. Hey, we got front row seats to it, man. We're like we're like living through big history, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:51:49

We really are we're living through a time that the history books will talk about, that's for sure. So what no matter what happens, it's going to be, you know, we didn't live in uninteresting times, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:00

So this is not the early 90s.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:02

No, oh man, those are the days mid to late 90s was like the the best for me, man. It was just all right. We're gonna wrap this one up, guys. Thank you, Kale. Always for talking with you, brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:15

Thank you both gentlemen for having me on. You know, I always have a good time with this. It's good.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:19

Go check out monitoring the situation. If you want a little break from Catholic content, um, monitoring the situation. I I genuinely enjoy that show, man. You guys are really good together, you got great chemistry together. Um, yeah, we could talk for hours.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:32

We could talk for hours.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:33

It's crazy. Yeah, it's it's it's really great listening to you guys. It's sometimes it's good to get a little break from the Catholic content and just listen to listen to some some different insights. So uh monitoring the situation. Uh, that's on YouTube. They just got that started. Go check that out, and we'll talk to you soon, Kel. And thank you guys. We'll see you next time. Take us out, Robert.