Just Became Catholic? Here's What To Do Your First Year (Full LOCALS Version)

The honeymoon phase of conversion is real and it’s beautiful. But what happens when you walk into your first Catholic Mass, nobody greets you, the parish feels foreign, and your old friends start questioning whether you’re “still Christian”? We sit down with Keith Nestor to talk about the first year of Catholic life the part nobody romanticizes, but everyone has to live.

Keith shares why he wrote The Convert’s Guide to Roman Catholicism, plus the practical struggles converts face: telling family and friends without picking a fight, learning Catholic culture and Catholic lingo, finding a parish, and discovering the “why behind the what” at Mass. We also get honest about testimony culture, why not every faith story needs fireworks, and how daily conversion through confession, prayer, and a sacramental life brings stability that emotional highs never can.

Then the conversation gets personal. Keith opens up about years of family tension after his conversion and the kind of slow miracle many Catholics pray for: adult children and spouses coming home through OCIA, confession, Eucharistic adoration, and a renewed love for the Eucharist. We close by zooming out to the bigger picture: the conversion surge, Catholic influencer culture, the pull toward tradition and reverence, and why a culture that feels chaotic can make the Church’s transcendence feel like oxygen.

Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review if it helped you. What surprised you most about becoming Catholic, or about coming back to the faith?

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Transcript

Cold Open And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_07 0:11

People always ask me, Keith, how did you learn enough about the faith to write your book, The Convert's Guide to Roman Catholicism? It's easier to show you. Hold on. Upload begins when you press here.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

And that's how you convert people to Catholicism. That's gotta be the best one I've ever seen, I'm telling you. What is that movie? Johnny mnemonic or something? I don't I don't I don't think I haven't seen that movie. I haven't I haven't seen that one either. I'm not sure actually. Yeah, I don't know. But everybody everybody makes the joke that you look like um Keanu Reeves. Yeah, Keanu Reeves. So Keith Nestor, man, uh one of one of our one of our uh favorite people to have on. Thank you, fellas. Yeah, we uh people probably don't know, but Keith and I are like besties behind the scenes. We talk like don't tell anybody, dude.

SPEAKER_08 2:21

How many times I have to like apologize for being your friend, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

It happens way more than it should.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Or I was like, wait a minute, you know that guy one of my favorite things about Keith is that Keith's wife will find misogynistic stuff online and send it to Keith to send me. That is that is a true statement. That's a true statement. Every once in a while, Keith Keith will just send me something about like women being bad drivers or women being dumb or something like that. Keith will go, yeah. This was for my wife. I'm like, oh, that's amazing, she's awesome.

SPEAKER_08 2:53

It's an East Coast thing, you know. She's a Philly girl, so she's got that kind of you know, that vibe.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

Um, a lot of people don't understand like that a northeast sense of humor is usually where I'm coming from. Like people think I'm mean or something like that. It's just we're just like a little brash, a little on the edgier side. Um, but Keith, you uh how how many years since you came into the church?

SPEAKER_08 3:15

Oh man, I think it's probably I think it's been, you know, it'll be nine years. Um in uh October. Nine years. So you came in under Francis, right? Yes, uh, yes, sir. I came in right before the summer of shame. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

Wow, wow, wow, you came in right before so wait, were you paying super close attention to the summer of shame stuff, or were you just like in your honeymoon phase of becoming Catholic? Like, no, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it, I just want to be Catholic.

SPEAKER_08 3:45

Uh, you know, I was so, I mean, think back to 2015, 2016 era is when I was really like doing all my deep dive on Catholicism. And, you know, there wasn't really a lot of the same stuff that there is out now in terms of of uh YouTube-ish kind of things, you know, it was a lot of like Steve Ray videos, Scott Han videos. I mean, kind of the the normal stuff that you would have back in the day. Um, but when I was a new Catholic, I was like, I was uh I was right there with like TNT, man, back in the old school TNT days, you know. So that's sort of where I got my explanation of all those issues. So that's kind of how I I came into all that. But to be real with you guys, like I didn't go down the rabbit hole of all of that stuff because I didn't, I just it just wasn't something that I was interested in, you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

Um yeah, I'll tell you, we we did it for like I don't think we were ever like obsessive on it. We would talk about like stuff if it was like a major thing, but even from the beginning of our show, we were always like, I don't know, we don't want to add to the noise of like just dunking on the hierarchy and stuff. And it, you know, the Francis era was a unique time. I think things have changed a lot under Leo, uh at least on the surface level. But I do think that people come into the church and they get kind of like a spiritual high, like you learn everything about Catholicism. You come into the church, you have this spiritual high, and you just want to proclaim the Catholic Church and the Catholic faith from the rooftops. And and then there probably comes like a sobering moment where the high wears off, and then like real life living out your faith comes into play. So you you had written a book about like what to do when you become Catholic, right?

Writing A Practical Convert Guide

SPEAKER_08 5:34

Yeah, I so and it's good, it's so weird. So this is the book I wrote, The Conference Guide to Roman Catholicism, your first year in the church. And we'll get into some of this, but when I when I became Catholic, the last thing on my mind was to ever do any kind of public-facing thing at all. That was that was not on my radar, you know. So, writing a book, giving talks, doing YouTube, anything like not no way. I just got a job and worked and was a Catholic. And then it was about a year later that I got the idea, and I really believe it was from God. And it's funny that intro, you know, it's him getting that download. That's literally how it happened to me. We were on a bus heading to um, we were we did a pilgrimage over to Mejigoria, and we were leaving, and on that bus, like this thing hit me where I was just like, I need to write this book. And so so I just came home and and I started working on it, but I didn't have a publisher, I still don't have a publisher, and I just I just uh cranked it out, man. And I just I didn't know what I was gonna do with it, but it was one of those things where I felt like this is what God wanted me to do. I don't have the plan, I don't have the strategy, and I didn't really care because that wasn't my goal. Um I just wanted to be obedient, so I wrote that book, and the book really is about what it's like to be a new Catholic, it's not about it's not an apologetics book on why you should be Catholic, and it's not a book on like the deep side of your faith, it's more of the practical realities that new converts face.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

So what are some of them? Like because I mean, I'm obviously a cradle Catholic, right? So some of the stuff you wouldn't have to deal with. It's in my DNA. Um, I've you know, raised as as a Catholic. So, like, there's probably some that would be obvious, like you know, dealing with family that don't understand your conversion and stuff. But is there any like huge cultural things that you're just like, man, this is gonna take so good.

Telling Family You’re Catholic

Mass Culture Shock For Converts

SPEAKER_08 7:31

So many, are you kidding me? That's the main thing. Like, this this book is about the culture. So, so like the first the first practical thing that I get into, I do know I talk about why do people convert in the first place, but the first thing I talk about really, it's I think it's chapter three, it's called How to Not Have a Holy War, coming out as a Catholic. And it's it's how you tell people that you're Catholic. How do you tell your family and friends? Like, what are you supposed to do with that? Because that's the thing, you know, when when you're an evangelical or a Protestant or something and you become Catholic, you have to figure out how you're gonna let that cat out of the bag. And so that was really my first sort of practical tip that I gave people on how to do that was, and it was really more about what not to do than what to do. Um, so so I have a chapter on that. I have a chapter on like walking through the mass, relating to the mass as a former Protestant. What what are the things of the mass that you need to be keyed in on? How does here's another one that that most people don't think about. How do you find a parish? Like what how do you church drop as a Catholic? And what because that's the cradle cradles deal with that too, though. Yeah, they do, but they do have to deal with it differently. It's a completely different understanding because here's the thing, right? Converts, especially from evangelicalism, are used to being the most important person in the room when they go to church. Yeah, all right. That from the moment they arrive on the property, there are people who are trained to make you feel like you are a VIP, man, 100%. And so you have you have all sorts of you know, greeters and all this stuff for new visitors and everything. It's like, oh, you're catered to in so many ways, special parking lot spaces, all this, you know. Well, you guys know this. As a Catholic, you show up, nobody gives a flying rip you're there.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

You know, not just that, not just that, like Catholics hog the aisle and don't let you like get in as dumb. It's like it's it's it's like that's a cradle thing. We like doing that. We don't like to let the converts feel welcome. So we hog the aisle. We like to step over us. So it makes sure people are very uncomfortable when they come.

Learning Catholic Lingo And Norms

SPEAKER_08 9:42

Yeah. So stuff, stuff like that. I mean, how do you do that? How do you prepare yourself to walk in, like, you know, because that's a that that can be shocking, but but but beneath all of that really is understanding, and this is the key to everything, really, understanding the why behind the what. Why are things the way they are? Cradle Catholics usually don't think about it. That's just how it is. It's the air you breathe, which is understandable, you know. But but converts oftentimes come in and they have to they have to figure out okay, why is it this way? Why do we do this? Why don't we do that? How how come, you know, every when you go into mass, everyone's super quiet. I'm used to going in, there's a countdown, a band playing, everybody's high-fiving each other, drinking coffee and talking about their weekend, you know, and then you go to Catholic Mass, like, oh my goodness, is our funeral going on first here? What's what's the deal? So there's cultural things like that, and then of course, there's the the cultural things of just being Catholic that are different, you know. Um, how people talk about their faith, the words we use, different things like that. So, anyway, that's what the whole book was like.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

The lingo is so different, right? When you listen to man, especially being on like dealing with Protestant Twitter, you like the catchphrases that the like the the the finished work of Jesus Christ, right? Like the these little catchphrases that they have that they it's like I call it, I call it catchphrase Christianity, where yeah, they think that like saying a certain phrase is is what saves you, things like that that you have to kind of break break out of it.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

I mean, even even as a cradle, like uh I don't know right back, fellas. Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

All right, go ahead. So Keith Keith's uh son is uh stationed in Syria, and he right before they came on the show, right before he came on, his son got like uh an emergency alert. So Keith was like, if I gotta dip out, it's just to make sure my son's okay. So let's pray his son's okay, first off. But yeah, like you Rob, you think about um our lingo, we we kind of especially with the Catholic answers, like uh over the past couple of decades of them shaping us because of of being in response to the Protestants, like we have our own lingo too that that kind of settles in too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

I just I don't know what age I would have been exactly, but like as a cradle Catholic, the first time having you know, like an evangelical ask you, Are you saved? It's like well, what do you mean? Like, the heck do you have to do it?

SPEAKER_04 12:09

Okay, neighbors, everything okay? Yep, yep, everything's good. Thank you guys. I appreciate that. Yeah, I was I was just about to say Rob said, like the first time he heard like the evangelical, or have you been saved yet? So I I had a neighbor who lived down the block from me, and they were like super born-again evangelical. And I remember we're playing manhunt, I was like 11 years old, and the kid was like, You're Catholic, you're going to hell, you haven't been saved.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

First off, can we just appreciate the i the like kind of the irony of you know a young Italian American playing manhunt? Manhunt, dude.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

Was it training you guys? We we lived on we lived on a court, like all the kids were friends, but the the one kid's mother like programmed in their heads this anti-Catholicism from when they were little. So that was like the first time I ever came across a Protestant. I remember talking to my mom, and my mom was in like a prayer group with the mom. It was like a woman's prayer meeting that they did together, and my mom had to like set the mother straight and tell her to tell her kids not to say that was kind of bizarre, but yeah, you're getting into the lingo, right? Right, Keith?

SPEAKER_08 13:15

Yeah. So I'll give you a couple examples. So, you know, you you talk about like the whole the finished work of Christ and things like that. Catholics are always talking about offering it up, you know, when you're going through something, offer it up. Like Protestants have no idea what that means. Okay. So when you say offer it up, they look at you like, what are you talking about? Also, when you're talking about like prayer, in the Protestant world, you don't say prayer intentions, you say prayer requests. So when you're like, hey, I got a prayer request in the Catholic Church, they're like, What's that? You know, but they're always like, Well, what are your intentions? Like, I remember when someone said, I was like, All right, let's pray. And they're like, What are your intentions? I'm like, My intention is to pray. What are you talking about? You know, that is kind of funny. I wouldn't like, no, like, what are your intentions? I'm like, to like dialogue with Jesus. That's what I want to do. I mean, it so there are different lingo things, and then like other weird stuff too. You know, I tell a story in this book about the first time I I met a priest and was talking to him about the faith. I was invited to go to like the um Knights of Columbus Hall or whatever for a fish fry. And so I went, and the priest comes up to the table with two pictures of beer and he puts them down on the table. He's like, All right, good to have you. And I was just like so scandalized by that. I'm like, what are you talking about, dude? Um, so just like the the um is there a relief?

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Is there a bit of relief in that, right? Like you come from because the you know, the the like the cliche is that cat uh you know, Protestants take their faith so seriously, and Catholics are kind of, but there is something too just like sitting and hanging with the priest and having a beer that's gotta be a bit of a relief that you're not you could kind of just like be normal a little bit, I would think.

Testimonies Without Making It About You

SPEAKER_08 15:01

Yeah, well, it's you know, it's interesting because I mean there are Protestants that do that. Don't get me wrong. I mean, like the Reformed guys I know all do that, you know. They're all they're all into that stuff, you know, most of them. Maybe not some of the the Reformed Baptists, but I don't know, there's just different attitudes around things, you know? Uh and some of the culture is is different, and and and not all of it is just like this, you know, weird, kind of goofy stuff, but some of it is just like amazing to to where, like, for example, I have never been asked when I first when I first became Catholic, nobody when I kind of showed up and nobody really knew who I was or what I was doing, nobody said, Hey Keith, what do you do for a job? Nobody cared. Like your vocation is is are you a father or are you religious or are you sick? Like, like what's your state in life? But there's a different understanding about that and and a different way of viewing community. And the other thing I thought that was so interesting is from a practical perspective, this is one of my favorite things about being Catholic, but I thought it was gonna drive me crazy. Was that we don't segment our worship. Like, for example, we had all these different worship services, not because we needed the room, but because, hey, some people like traditional worship, some people like contemporary worship, some people like country music. Some so there's like cowboy church, there's hipster church, there's rock and roll church, there's rap church. Every kind of subculture that you can think of, you're gonna find people in the church that put you in these little categories. Well, like the first time I went to like a men's prayer group at my parish, it was all dudes of all different ages, and that kind of thing just never happens in the Protestant world, typically. You know, it's usually like all right, the young men do this, the older men do this, they like everybody's always getting segmented up, you know. And I I I loved it. I I just am so excited that we come in, it's like we're no, we're just Catholic, that's our identity.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

I want to actually point to the all right. So we're gonna get I want to get into like a couple of things for especially if there's there are new people checking this video out. I gotta list, brother. I gotta list. Yes, but um, I I am curious about this, like this because this I mean, you came on our show and like shared your testimony with us, right? Like you came on and told us your conversion story, and that's a very um Protestant thing, right? To share your testimony and talk about how Christ changed your life and stuff, and uh especially because all right, because we also have to get to the conversions in your family that have just happened too, but um, me raising my kids Catholic, it's I've talked about it on the show a little bit. It gets a little tricky if you're always hearing these testimonies about these drastic conversions to Christ, and my kids were just kind of raised in the faith and always had a sacramental life, and they didn't have some moment where they like fell deep into mortal sin, and then Christ rescues them from it. They didn't have their prodigal son moment, basically, right? Yeah, so it's it's something that's I see creeping into Catholicism where everybody comes on and shares their testimony. I understand it from a convert perspective, but I think Catholics, like cradle Catholics, are a little off, like they're like, Well, what do I do with this? I think.

SPEAKER_08 18:14

Well, I think, okay, so here's my take on that. I think everybody, I mean, we all we all have a story one way or the other, okay. And one of the most effective things you can do to share your faith with people is to tell them your faith story, your journey. And and you you have one even as a cradle Catholic growing up in the faith, right? So that's totally okay. There, there, and I, you know, I grew up in the church camp world where it was like somebody grabbed the microphone, and you know, there were people that were running through jungles chased by you know gangs that found Jesus, you know, what I mean, like people had these crazy wild stories, and it almost became like this competitive thing like who's got the most dramatic, craziest testimony? And you know, I think that that's just kind of entertainment to a certain degree, right? It can be, because then it becomes all about that person. Your your testimony should never highlight you, it should be about Jesus, and it and you're the way that we tell our stories needs to need to be able to connect with people and point them to Christ, not to ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

I do think they're helpful, right? Like, if so, especially if somebody's like a drug abuser and like they have this drastic effect, like that could inspire somebody else who's into like there are like I definitely think they're useful and that they're helpful, especially for a lot of people who need to hear them for the first time. I'm I'm uh my concern is a little bit about my like my own, because my son had said it to me. He's like, Dad, I don't know, I hear all these stories, and it's like even for me, like I had a deep reversion moment where God hit me over the head with a two by four. And when I tell my kids that they're like, Well, I don't know, I never had that, I just kind of believe in God. You know, well, I think that's okay.

SPEAKER_08 19:56

Yeah. I mean, I would I would rather I would rather have kids that didn't need to be rescued because they were they were um you know brought up in the faith. I mean, that's the goal. So it's funny. So like I was at this men's retreat a couple of months ago, and this dude, we were talking about the same exact issue. This guy who's probably like 60 years old. He goes, you know, I really don't have a a any kind of dramatic conversion story. He says, I was raised Catholic, you know, I'm just a dad, I've got seven kids, and all my they're all adults and they're all still Catholic. And I was like, You are the hero. Yeah, you are the hero. Yeah, I'm not the hero. You're you're the hero. You ought to come up instead of me giving a talk, you ought to give a talk. If you can raise, and he's this guy, super simple blue-collar guy, right? And and he was just like, I don't know, I don't really have anything to share. I just raised seven kids and they're all still Catholic.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

I'm like, uh, that's yeah, that that that's just that is a yeah, and that's something I think a lot of people probably need to hear, also. Like, what did you do to keep those kids in the church and not have that time period where they fall away, right? So you back to my point, dude.

SPEAKER_08 21:02

That's see, here's the thing. Our conversion stories aren't just about the dramatic past and the crazy, you know, hook. It's about how we live our faith out. Because the reality is we're all converts and we convert every single day. It's not just the conversion I had, you know, 10 years ago when I decided to become Catholic. Every single day I have to freaking convert because my flesh wants to take me a certain place and the devil's tempting me, and I'm getting dealing with the things. So every moment there's an opportunity for for me to convert. And I think we need to tell those stories more and more about not just, hey, here's my conversion story, but how do I live out the faith? And I have learned so much from guys like you who are cradle Catholics, who don't have all that. I mean, I know you have your deal, but but who guys that are just like, okay, I I don't have this boring, I just have this boring story. No, no, no. That's huge. Everybody has something to share about that, you know? And I think that can be a huge thing. So I'm personally like I'm all about hearing the stories. I love listening to people talk about their faith journey. And that's why, like when I do my interviews on my channel, sometimes I know that it's going to be like a big conversion, right? But sometimes I'm interviewing people who who didn't convert necessarily in this traditional sense. But we'll talk, I'll just say, let's talk about your faith journey. You know, what's that looked like? And everybody's got something to share when it comes to that.

Family Pain And Unexpected Miracles

SPEAKER_04 22:29

Yeah. I'll tell you the first, so the first time we had you on was I think three years ago. And I remember uh you you didn't really want to talk because you're you you have your reversion, you have your conversion nine years ago, but your children are all adults, yeah. So it's like it was a it was a topic. I remember asking you a little bit about it, and you're like, ah, it's kind of a touchy subject, and you didn't want to dive into it too much. But now, nine years later, after your conversion, I saw you made an I mean you've talked behind the scenes obviously a little bit about it, but you had some huge announcements in your family this year, right?

SPEAKER_08 23:02

We we did, man. So I have I have three kids. I have a daughter and then two sons. And when we converted, they were like 15, 17, and 18, like you know, ish. Uh maybe just turned 19. And they, you know, I did a terrible job explaining to them what we had done. They were in the years where it was like they had their own life that was they were sort of in the church you were a pastor at, right?

SPEAKER_04 23:28

Yeah. Like they're in the church that Keith was a pastor at.

SPEAKER_08 23:31

Yeah, they were in the youth group, they were in the church, they were my daughter, was an intern, my son was in the prayer. Both my sons played in the worship team. Like, like they were very plugged in. And then now all of a sudden we're Catholic. And at first, we were like, Well, what do we do? You know, so we we brought them to go to go to, you know, to mass with us. And honestly, they just they didn't connect with it at all.

SPEAKER_05 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 23:51

And they were like, We hate this. Do we still have to do this? And and our priest had told us, you know, you can't make your kids do this, they're too old to make them do this. So they, long story short, they chose to not have anything to do with it. And it was really hard, you know. My wife would go into church and just she would just bawl every Sunday because our family's now divided. And it was really, really tough. And, you know, I was so on fire for the Catholic faith that I'm I'm out there just beating everybody over the head with it. And they were like, we don't want to hear anymore about this, Dad. And they they actually literally said to me one time, you need to stop talking to us about it. So anyway, we we've kind of, you know, at the same time, our family's really close. So there's a lot of support just to what we're doing. And, you know, they would kind of whatever, and there'd be moments where we would get a little glimmer of hope that maybe this is gonna be a thing. Well, about two years ago, my daughter, who had just recently got married, uh, it's very interesting. She was working as a worship leader at this Protestant church, and her new husband and her were having a conversation about some different things. Anyway, I go to I go to this first Saturday Mass, and I'm just I'm just praying to our lady. I'm just saying, hey, I need a signal grace. You know, I need, and for those of you who don't know, you Catholics, a signal grace, a little lingo here. That's just a grace that's we'll just call it little kisses from heaven for you people, okay? It's it's a little angel feather that fell down from the sky of God saying that I see what you're doing, and here's a little grace, okay? And I asked for that because it's one of the promises of praying the rosary every day, which I've been doing for years at that point in time. I I'm walking out to my car, and my daughter FaceTimes me, and I'm like, What's up? She says, Hey dad, what time is Mass tomorrow? And I said, Why? And you know, her husband's name is Brian. She's like, she's like, Brian, Brian and I, you know, we want to come. And I'm like, really? She's like, Yeah. And I said, Well, you know, we go to the Latin mass, it's at eight o'clock in the morning. And she goes, Oh, good, I like that one better anyway. And so I'm like, All right. So they came to the mass with us, and then that just opened the door to these conversations. And we found out that Brian, so get this, man. My son-in-law Brian, great dude. He's not that this matters, but he's like six foot eight, 350 pounds, giant dude. My daughter is this little itty-bitty thing. She's barely five foot tall. Brian's a very like intimidating looking guy, right?

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 26:19

Um, and when he comes over to my house to ask to marry my daughter, I said to him, I'm you're five foot one, so you're like, oh no way.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Someone who's five foot three.

SPEAKER_08 26:32

I'm not five foot one. Anyway, um, uh, so he says to, you know, I he's like, I want to marry your daughter. I said, okay. I said, listen, Brian, here's the deal, man. He wasn't brought up going to church. He was abandoned by his mom and his dad. Like he was kind of on his own, you know? And I said, dude, I said, you need to be the spiritual leader of your household. And I don't know, can you do that? I said, my daughter's got a strong faith. She was raised in the faith. She loves Jesus. If you're gonna be her husband, you're gonna have to be her leader. Can you do that? And he he was like, he said, Well, I'm not gonna pretend that I know all this stuff, but I'm gonna embrace that role and I'm gonna do the best I can. And I'm I'm I'm committed to like growing into that, you know? And I said, Okay, dude, well, it's wild, but my unchurched son-in-law is in some ways led my daughter into the Catholic church. Because women follow their husbands. Well, yeah, and that's what my so my daughter and this is important. I know you guys talk about this a lot. My daughter, even though she was the more experienced person in the faith, she understood that her role was to submit to her husband and she and to lead to follow his leadership. So she was walking that line of okay, how do we do this? How do we do this? And basically what she did was she just said, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna help you with this, but you're gonna have to take over, you know, and you're gonna really love this. Um, they were watching the chosen, okay. Rob, you're gonna love it, brother. You know me so well, Keith. And he doesn't know anything about these stories, he doesn't know anything about the Protestant Reformation, he doesn't know anything about Luther, he doesn't know anything about any of this. And he just asked her this very simple question. He said, Well, what denomination were the disciples? And my daughter was like, uh, well, you know, they didn't really have denominations back then. So what you know, he goes, I don't understand. And then she basically explained to him that Jesus started the Catholic Church, and eventually there was a reformation, right? So he just simply goes, He goes, Well, if Jesus started the Catholic Church, why aren't we Catholic?

SPEAKER_05 28:52

And that's amazing.

SPEAKER_08 28:53

And then she was like, Well, do you want to try that? And he's like, Yes. So he wasn't connecting with their with their you know little evangelical church they were going to. He didn't, he he, you know, this is so man, men, men, men, yes, men. It was it was totally like, and I don't want to be disparaging, but let's just say this it's a pretty boomer-ish kind of new church start that's like, you know, it's just it didn't speak to this young man, yeah. And he came to the Latin Mass and he was blown away and he loved it, you know. Now it didn't make him an instant trad, an instant, but he could just sense that there was something powerful going on here that was bigger than himself. Yeah, and eventually that led that led them on this journey, and then it just kind of went cold for like months. And I'm like, what is going on? So I pulled my daughter aside one day and I said, What are you doing? You know, you flirt with this, you're thinking about it, you guys talk about it, but then whatever. And they got together and they're just like, you know what, we're just we're gonna go talk to father. And they began that process. And then she quit, she went in and she quit her job, which was really hard for her because they did not have they needed the money. Yeah. And she's like, she's like, I need to trust God here, and we need to trust God here. And Brian was all for it. He was like, hey, if this is what God wants us to do, let's do it, you know. So they she quit the job and they began OCIA, and um they came into the church, and I'm here to tell you guys this. You know, I have never seen my daughter more full of joy and more fired up about her faith than she has been in this process. It's been absolutely incredible to see her come alive. And you know, I mentioned this on X the other day, but she FaceTimed us on Saturday and she had had her first confession, and she was like, I'm so I can't wait to receive the Eucharist tonight. I'm so excited. And she's just like, This is so you know, I have so much joy, you know. Why don't you guys ever tell me about this, you know? And I and I'm like pretty smart, but um so anyway, that's their story. But my son, Jesse, the one who is over in the Middle East right now, this dude wanted nothing to do with church. He was like one of these kids that was like, I hate the church. I got burned by people there, I don't want anything to do with it. You know, super smart kid, knows a lot. Um, but he was just like uh not having it. Well, he gets married to a girl from Texas who was like Baptist-ish, you know, didn't really grow up in the faith, but would call herself like a Baptist. And the two of them, like we always have lunch on Sundays after church with our family. They would never go to church, they would just come over and we would invite them. They always say no, we don't want everything, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. Well, he gets they get married in November of what 2024? Yeah, um, 2024. And then he knows he's gonna be deployed in the spring of 2025. So he goes overseas, and we're so we're trying to take care of uh his his you know, our daughter-in-law, her name's Alyssa. Yeah, and if we would invite her, hey Alyssa, you want to come to church with us? No, I'm good. No, I'm good. I don't want that, you know. And we don't want to push, you know, we don't want to be overbearing. And then my my wife and I, just before this, we had we had gone on our on our pilgrimage to Rome. We're in the we're in the Saint the tomb of uh at the tomb of St. Monica in St. Augustine's church. And my wife and I are praying, we're begging Saint Monica's intercession for our kids. And it was like the next day we started hearing good things about my daughter having conversations with her brother, all this kind of stuff like that. But they're still like, we're not going to church, we're not going to church. Well, then the literally Charlie Kirk gets shot on Wednesday. I had asked my daughter to go to church, my daughter-in-law to go to church with me that Sunday. She said, no. Charlie Kirk gets shot on Wednesday, on Thursday. That just rocked her world, man. Yeah. And she texted, she texted my wife, and she's like, I think I need to go to church with you guys. So we picked her up, we brought her to church, and she just balled the whole time. And we came out and we didn't want to be like, hey, all right, so what'd you think? Yeah. So we just sort of let it set. And then the next week she came with us, and then we were like, Hey, is this a thing or what? And she's like, It's a thing. And this girl, I'm not kidding you guys, she it was like a switch flipped. She went from wanting nothing to do with church to now this girl is is coming out of her house. We're picking her up. She's got a missile, a Bible, a miraculous metal, a rosary. She's watching all my stuff. And she's like, she's going to daily mass, she's going to Eucharistic adoration. You could not stop this girl from running to the church. Like, she your son's in the middle east. Like, what the hell did you do to my wife? You freaking, what did you do? I know. We were, I was a little bit worried about that. I'm like, and she kept saying, No, Jesse and I have been having these conversations. When he gets back, we want to like get into faith. We want to do these things. And I'm like, wow, okay. So, so she joins OCIA, right? And the leader goes to the same adoration time that we go to. On the way out, she stops to listen. She says, Hey, by the way, if Jesse wants to do this overseas, we can set him up with like a remote program. And I didn't say anything. I was just like, what? And she's like, let me talk to him. And then he basically said, Yeah, I want to do this too. So, so my daughter-in-law got baptized on the Easter Vigil, along with my son-in-law. My daughter got confirmed. My granddaughter, okay, who's, you know, about a year and a half, she's going to be baptized at Pentecost. Hopefully, my son will be back by then. He will be confirmed, and then he's going to be the Godfather. Dude, this is like you talk about a miraculous story. It's just insane, man. I mean, we've got one other son that we're praying for. God bless him. But but it's been, it's just been one incredible miracle at all. Because yeah, you're right, you know, Christine, that they were not in, they were less than interested. And it it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

It goes look because I know so many people who one spouse is in the church and the other one isn't. And it goes to like you trying to talk to your kids about it, and them just being like, We don't want to hear this, just stop. There comes a point where you have to surrender it and just recognize that God loves you and our lady loves you more than you love your spouse or your child, and prayer and fasting actually does work. And um, yeah, because the same thing happened with my wife. Like, when I when I start taking my faith seriously, she thought I lost my mind. Yeah, you know, she she thought I lost my mind, and I'm I'm making her go to mass with me, and she wanted nothing to do with it. And I just had to stop trying to convince her because me trying to argue her in the faith was having the opposite effect, it was turning her off. So I had to just surrender it and just kind of do what I was doing, and she saw the change in me, and that piqued her interest. And next thing you know, she has her deep conversion, and you know, the rest is history.

SPEAKER_08 36:05

It's it's such a testament to the fact that, and this is important for people who who are saying, How do I get my kids back in the church or how do I get my spouse or whatever? You can't do that. Okay. And I think part of the reason why this went down the way it did was because I needed to recognize that that it wasn't within my power to make that happen. I had to let that go to the Lord and to our lady. And I really truly believe that that's how it went down. And we saw things along the way that were just like, wow, how like, for example, my son overseas, he he messaged me one day. He's like, send me books about philosophy and theology. And I'm like, really? So we were out at Steubenville, we went up to this really cool bookstore in Pittsburgh that I heard about. Our friend took us up there, and we were praying. My wife and I were like, okay, what book should I give to Jesse? What should I get this kid? And I just was like, Holy Spirit, guide me, you know, to what I should give my son. And I just felt so led to get the confessions of St. Augustine. And so I got the that book and a few others. We put it in the mail. It takes, you know, weeks to get to where he is. And we had no idea when that would happen. The box of books showed up on St. Augustine's feast day. And I told Jesse, like when he's like, hey, the books came today. I said, you may not understand that this is significant, but let me explain to you what this means. And he just was like, Whoa, that's cool. I mean, and it was just one thing like that after another, where it was like, God did this, man. And that's, I think, so important for us to remember because we can get so focused on ourselves and thinking, oh, I have to say the right thing, or give them the right this, give them the right that. What you need to do is more than anything, you need to focus on you living out the faith in in front of them and trusting that to the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 38:02

There's a there's a couple of things there. Well, first off, the Charlie Kirk thing, I think, has such an effect on the whole country because it got my in-laws to start going back to church. It got like I know so many people who started to look at the world differently after that incident, right? And um, the other thing that I was thinking about was even in the gospels, Christ talks about like, unless you hate your father and mother, like you have to you have to love him first, right? So, like, I didn't come to bring peace, I came to bring the sword. And you're seeing your family cleaved through this whole process, and you're you're you're in love with the Catholic faith, you're out there telling people about it, you're you're you're evangelizing how countless numbers of Catholics on your channel, and meanwhile, you have this severance in your own family, and it's gotta just be breaking your heart. And then all of a sudden, you have like this reunification of your family coming this year. Like, I'm so I'm overjoyed for you, man. I because I know how much this has weighed on you for the past couple of years, and you started talking to me about it a couple months ago, and I was just it's just such an awesome story.

SPEAKER_08 39:09

Well, man, it's it's been it's been uh so powerful, you know, because like our prayer community that we have every day, the Rosary Crew, you know, they they know my kids, they've been praying for them, they've been sending them stuff, they've been, you know, so it's like to see this happen. There's so many people that are rejoicing over them right now. And that's one of my favorite things about being Catholic. And I know we're gonna get to this, but but the beautiful thing that there's no family like Catholic family, there's no community like Catholic community. And it's not to be disparaging. Some of our best friends in the whole world are Protestants, okay? And and and I'm I thank God for them. And I'm not saying anything negative about that, but I'm just saying, like, there's a different level of fellowship in the Catholic Church. And this is something that I hear a lot from fellow converts that they go, there's something deeper going on here than what I than than than where I came from. And there's a real a real sense of why this is important. We were talking about this at the Easter Visual when we were sitting there with some of our other convert friends. Um, and everybody is like in tears at these people that are coming into the church. It's this huge thing. It never was like that before, man. We used to just go into our office on Sunday morning with people who said they started coming to our church, they wanted to join, and we would literally go, Okay, guess what? You're a member.

SPEAKER_05 40:32

Yeah, you know, welcome.

New Convert Advice: Go Slow

SPEAKER_04 40:33

Yeah. And there is there is something profound about living out a liturgical life, also, and that you're all in in the communion of saints, right? Like you're joining the communion of saints, so it's not even just the people you're with. You have the cloud of witnesses at every single mass. You have you have you have the centuries upon centuries of saints that you could reach back and dive into that are you know exploring the same exact faith that you are. It's uh there is something really like profound and beautiful about coming into the Catholic family. Now, look, for the new converts that are coming in, there's also like, don't think you're coming into this perfect family that everybody agrees on everything, right? So, because I think that's that's probably a a false sense that you might have if you're a newcomer into the church. Like, we're a very dysfunctional family, don't get us wrong. Um, what what do you think are some tips for the new convert maybe to avoid? Um, and maybe maybe things to what are some good things and bad things you would give, like for advice for a new convert?

SPEAKER_08 41:36

Well, the first thing I would say for a new convert is just allow yourself to celebrate. You know, you went through a process. You probably, you know, you probably had some sacrifice, some suffering. You probably had some stuff you had to deal with, especially if you had marriage things you had to sort through and annulments and all that stuff. I mean, a lot of people sacrifice a lot to become Catholic. And when you finally get to that point where you where you are receiving the sacraments, just take some time and thank God and be joyful and celebrate and have fun with it. Okay. Catholics are too freaking serious all the time, except for you guys. But like, and that's why I think that's why I think people like your show because because you guys have fun, right? But and but that should be part of it. So, so just celebrate it, drink it in. And I would also say this set realistic goals for what you want to do. It could it can be so tempting to jump in and be like, all right, I'm gonna pray the liturgy of the hours every day, I'm gonna do four rosaries, and I'm gonna pray the angelists, I'm gonna do divine mercy chaplet, I'm gonna do all the ember days, I'm gonna do all the things because there's an there's an endless stream of things that are being thrown at you that you should do. Countless devotions, yeah. Yes, and everybody you meet is gonna tell you what you should do. Okay, they mean well, but they're oh, well, do you do the holy face? Well, do you do the this?

SPEAKER_04 42:59

Do you do that? There's no there's no salvation outside the brown scapular, guys.

SPEAKER_08 43:02

Yeah, you you have you have to just like treat your new faith, treat your new faith like you just were served a gourmet meal, and you're gonna eat it slowly and you're gonna savor every morse. So you're not gonna just plow it down, right? Because it will last a lifetime. Exactly. You've got your whole life, so just go slow, set realistic goals, and and enter into it with kind of a like a healthy pace. Don't overdo it because you could get burned out. Yeah. And also remember, here's another thing I would tell people: only look to people who are helpful to you and nobody else. You will not have a shortage of people in your life as a Catholic that are gonna that are gonna make it difficult for you to be excited about being Catholic. Obviously, the scandals, obviously, people who do bad things, but there may be even people in your parish that just get on your nerves and annoy you. Um There may be people that are just put you off or act weird or whatever. You don't need to deal with that. Find find your people, okay? And settle into that. But don't think that you have to be all things to all people in the Catholic Church right away. So I think those are some of the things, just a mindset when you come in, you know.

Online Fights And Liturgy Wars

SPEAKER_04 44:21

I I would say, all right, I'd say a couple of things also. Like um, like like he said, like there's a million devotions out there. Find the one that actually suits you because so don't overwhelm yourself. You don't need to do every single one of them, right? I would say that the the rosary is probably indispensable. I would say and a big part of the rosary is not um like you're praying a certain amount of Hail Mary's and you have to meditate on the mysteries perfectly. I wouldn't, I would because I have a hard time meditating on the mysteries a lot of times. I'm driving when I pray the rosary. Look at the rosary more as developing a relationship with the mother of God. Like that's first and foremost what the rosary is. It's how you develop a relationship with our lady. Um, that one would be indispensable. Um, the the uh other one is if you're a new convert, I would say stay out of liturgy wars right away.

SPEAKER_08 45:11

Oh, yeah, that was on my list too. I think here's the thing. I think, I think you need to, as a convert, I think you need to like be like stay quiet online, but live out loud in real life. Okay. So I don't think you should like insert yourself into all this online arguments and discourse, and I'm gonna get in debates, I'm gonna own people, I'm gonna, you know, do all this stuff. You don't need that. But what you do need to do is be on fire for your faith in real life. Yeah, so don't don't fall into the trap of you know, some grumpy old Catholic person who goes, Well, you just need to calm down, you converts are too on fire, you guys need to just settle down.

unknown 45:53

No, you don't need to do that.

SPEAKER_08 45:54

Tell that person to shut up, okay? Yeah, and you should never lose that fire, you should always, always keep that. But don't, but don't feel like I mean, and we and I know you guys talk about this too, but like if if the first thing you do when you become Catholic is start argue with people online, you're gonna be in trouble.

SPEAKER_04 46:11

So just yeah, look, there's there's there's a couple of temptations with the online stuff. One is that you think it's like you need to you need to argue about everything. The the other one is the liturgy wars you have to be super careful about, but also don't let um faith alone as a Protestant then become faith alone plus the sacraments as a Catholic, right? Like you got you have to it don't think that becoming Catholic is just an ascent to another set of beliefs. It like being Catholic is a way of life, and you kind of have to learn to live it. And the sacraments will hopefully bring stability to your faith. Because I remember before I understood all this stuff, I used to like I I mean, I probably did five or six altar calls in my car before I understood the sacraments and stuff because you you you you'll be on fire for God one minute, and then you kind of fall back into sin and you go back to your old ways, and then all of a sudden you have to give your life back to Jesus all over again. And that was kind of my my life until I really settled into a sacramental life. Sacramental life will bring stability to your faith. Um stay away from mortal sin. I'm just gonna tell you use the confessional as frequently as you can, get used to it. The longer you go without confession, the harder it is, the more frequently you go, the easier it becomes. And uh, yeah, the the online discourse is dangerous, especially when you're delving into it's just it just gets crazy. Don't don't let anybody tell you that if you're not going to the like if if people are telling you you have to go to a Latin mess, don't even worry about that stuff yet. Just become Catholic, live a liturgical life, and see where God leads you from there with that.

SPEAKER_08 47:53

Yeah, I think I think living the living the liturgical life is enough for you to to to to get started in your first year. Like you need to walk through that cycle and not be focusing on what other people are doing, but you need to like be inspired and you need to like work through these things and experience at least a year of that whole liturgical life and just drink it in without any external pressures to try to argue with people or mess with other people or doing anything like that. I just I just think that that's dangerous. And I and I meet a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people who, especially people that are in that are in ministry who are gonna become Catholic, and and it's like the first thing that they do is they think, okay, how do I make this a job or whatever? It's like, no, that's the last thing you should ever that should never cross your mind, right? That's that's not what you want to do. Um and and then just let God drive that ship for you. But don't don't don't feel like you are coming in and God has a job for you. Your job is to rest and be in the sacraments and be in the church and just absorb and and rest, and then let Him unveil that stuff to you as time goes on.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

I think there should be a couple of year waiting period before somebody like if you become Catholic, because the the instinct is to want to get out there and like tell your story to everybody, and but becoming a public Catholic is a it's a day, there's danger to it, right? There just is in general. You and I are, you know, all three of us are public Catholics, like and I know a lot of guys who are public Catholics, and it especially if you're gonna try to earn income from this, like becoming a professional Catholic is a scary thing because you right off the bat you're trying to get clicks and views, and it kind of takes away the joy of living out the actual faith, like just appreciate being Catholic.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

You feel like you need to have an opinion on every little thing in the church.

SPEAKER_08 49:55

Well, that that's a great that's a great way to put it, Rob. It's and it's like if if you feel like because the thing you got to realize is, and these can be two different conversations. Like, I do think that it's okay, I think it's good for for even new Catholics to be able to explain to people why they became Catholic. Yeah, so I think it's like if someone says to you, hey, you know, we got some friends together, we want you to come over and tell us what you did, tell us why you became share your story or whatever. Or even if somebody says, Hey, you know, I have a podcast, come on and and and share your story, how you became Catholic. I think it's one thing to share your story because here's the thing you should never go out there and pretend to be an expert in something that you're not an expert in.

SPEAKER_05 50:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 50:38

Now, you can be an expert in your own story, okay? But that doesn't make you an expert in Catholic theology or liturgy or whatever. So be very careful about what you uh what you put yourself into. So, like if someone says, Hey, we just want you to share your your your your testimony or your conversion, whatever, that's one thing. But if it's like, hey, will you give us a uh, you know, tell us about this particular thing or that particular thing, I think you should, I think you should Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

Well, especially because uh you may have learned something that made total sense for you and was part of even why you converted, and you'll think like that's the only way to see it as a Catholic, and then all of a sudden somebody else that knows the subject more than you and has more of a maybe even like understanding it from a traditional standpoint might come, and you what'll happen is it'll lead to you feeling silly because you spoke on something you don't necessarily know that well. That will happen no matter how many years you wait. That's true. Yeah, it took me years uh to to hear all the different perspectives on things, and I remember you know, I'd hear something on Catholic answers, and I thought like that's the only way to see the issue, and then all of a sudden you see something from a different perspective. You're like, Oh, okay, maybe I should have chilled out with like gunning for that specific thing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

You know, especially if you're coming in from like Protestantism, you're you're coming into a church where you know you learn that there's a magisterium, and we have all these, you know, definitive answers and thing, you know, thing where things are definitely right, and you just assume that, well, that means there's a definitive answer for everything, not realizing that most things the church is pretty open as to it being kind of an open question that people get to decide for themselves.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Yeah, so something something like the death penalty. Like you don't want to jump into the death penalty debate because you heard a John Paul sermon. Like you just you wanna, you know, these are things to just be be cautious of as you're coming in, I would say. 100%.

SPEAKER_08 52:36

And and along that line, I think the other thing that you have to do is you have to develop a thick skin and a soft heart because you're you're going to run into things that are that are going to challenge you, that are gonna be tough, and you're gonna still be dealing with some fallout from your past from people questioning you and and challenging you, and you know, maybe even um criticizing you. And that's hard to deal with sometimes. Like you've been on this journey of faith because you're passionate about Jesus, and then people you were friends with for years are gonna tell other people that you're not a Christian anymore, you know? So you you have to develop a thick skin to through the constant criticism, you know, and and it it kind of can have that effect on you. We're just like, I'm sick of talking to people because I don't want to have to like explain to people that I'm still a Christian because I became Catholic for crying out loud. So you have to have that that thick skin, but you also have to have a soft heart because you have to remember that they they they just don't know. They don't know what you're experiencing and why you did what you did. They're in that place where you probably were at one time. So you have to have compassion for them and not get angry and take it out on them. But you know, that thick skin to protect your your your own emotional well-being, so you're not like falling apart every time you know you realize that some guy you were friends with for 10 years blocked you on Facebook because you're Catholic, you know. But then also reached out to people, you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Screenshotted a tweet that thought was kind of funny and tweeted that out.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

Oh, we'll get into that on locals, we're gonna do that on locals. Yeah, for anybody that doesn't know, I got blocked by Anthony Stein today. So we'll get into that a little bit on locals. Yeah, you know, I noticed something today, it's kind of funny. Some of the people that say the most awful things about the Pope have this undying loyalty to Donald Trump, and I'm like, you know, I think there might be something a little off there. If you if you criticize the Pope, they're all for it. But as soon as you criticize Trump, they're ready to jump down your throat as if he's the holy father or something. So um let me ask you this, Keith. What do you think there is an actual surge in conversions right now? Or do you think that we live in an echo chamber and we're online? So we say, like um You hear the you hear the public, you know, you see it on Fox News and all these people talking about this surge in Catholic conversion. Did you notice it at your parish this year?

SPEAKER_08 54:58

Or uh we we we had a pretty strong group. We had 15 people come in at the Easter Vigil, and we had a few more come in earlier than that, and a few more that are in the pipeline right now. And and I, you know, I travel a lot doing different events, and everywhere I go, I hear the same thing, you know, that there's there's record numbers of people in these programs that are coming through, and and it's it's across the board that I've seen. I know that's kind of anecdotally because I'm not like doing some big mass survey, but I've heard that from a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

At the same time, we know parishes are closing at an astounding rate still. So it's like there's things to definitely be hopeful for, but I think that we have to keep a realistic perspective on it. And and one of the things I definitely wanted to talk about before we go over to the other side is uh like understand what you signed up for as a Catholic. And this isn't just for new converts, this is for all Catholics. Like you you have to really understand what you signed up for, in that it's easy to say, oh, Christ transforms our suffering. And it's easy to say, oh, offer it up. And and and but when those things come into action, they're a very different thing. Like we were talking in the green room about Cameron Riker. Cameron Riker lost his two and a half month-old son, right? And it's one thing to, you know, say you you oh, you just need to trust God, but Cameron's dealing with that in a very profound way right now, right? And I can't imagine what this good Friday must have been like for his wife watching our lady go through what she got went through losing her her son, and they just lost theirs. But there is this I watched Cameron's video today, and he it was a beautiful video. Oh, I watched it too.

SPEAKER_08 56:33

It was heartbreaking, though, too.

SPEAKER_04 56:34

Talked about with with suffering and understanding this stuff, and even to Cameron, I almost wanted to say to him because I've he was like, you know, we we didn't we never doubted God's providence and all this. We understand God's love. But sometimes you're going, you may come across things where you are angry at God, and sometimes those are our most heartfelt prayers to him, you know, where you're where you're angry at God and you're crying out, and it's okay to even have those moments as a Catholic, too, I would say.

SPEAKER_08 57:01

Well, here's here's where Catholicism really shines in those moments, you know. Like Catholicism has such a holistic view of the human experience that where where these issues of human suffering and sorrow are not things that make you go, wait, this doesn't compute. I serve a loving, I serve God. God loves me, therefore, bad things shouldn't happen to me. In Catholicism, it's it's baked into the human experience. And not only that, it's part of how we it's part of how we express our love to God and how we accomplish his will through redemptive suffering, through offering that stuff to him and growing closer to him in and through that. Our suffering is no longer this thing that seems outside of our religious experience. It's the it's the heart of it. And Catholicism is able to really help you step into that. Whereas a lot of the you know, other traditions, you just have to kind of scratch your head and go, Welp, it's a mystery. We don't get it, you know. But like I've seen in Catholicism, it there's a beauty to it, I would even say, that is so deep and profound that makes me feel like, wow, I'm really entering into our Lord's passion, because that's the heart of Catholic spirituality is the cross, the Eucharist, his body and blood shed for us. That's really the heart of everything. And we when we enter into that, we're invited to bring our stuff too. We're not told, well, you won't have any. We're invited into to bring our stuff. Not well, if you do all the good things, God is gonna bless you and He's gonna Yeah, we're not prosperity gospel. No, so I saw that today, and I was you know, I was really inspired by Cameron with that because I thought to myself, man, praise the Lord for this guy, you know. And and because I know a lot of people who deconstructed their faith would as soon as something bad happened to them, you know.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Yeah, yeah, look, and and even if something that tragic doesn't happen to you, you're going to come in for a lot of people and you're going to think you're on fire for this faith, and you're gonna think, like, oh man, I can't wait to have the hierarchy behind me, and that isn't that isn't something you have to look forward to. I'm just telling you. And you have to remember the Judas element is part of the story. You're going to have deceptive clergy involved in here. And there's I I made a post today about how like we're kind of not in this triumphalist stage in Christianity right now, where we're going out and conquering the pagan nations and stuff. There's an there's something mysterious that God is doing right now where there's it's it's it's a little tricky. So if you're coming in and you're expecting things to just be the, you know, especially with all these news stories coming out about the massive conversions and oh, we're we're winning, we're winning. Just brace yourselves for suffering because being a Catholic, like the the defining part of being Catholic is suffering. And the other thing should be fasting and sacrifice, right? So if you're if you're coming in, don't take lightly the the church's uh uh well it's suggestions at this point because the only requirements are Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. But make fasting a part of your daily Catholic life. Learn to live a life of fast, fast, fast feast. Make Sundays feast days and try to fast during the week a little bit. And Fridays don't eat meat. And because living that life of fast, fast, feast is it will make the feast day so much more important. This Lent, I mean, I freaking gave some things up this Lent that Easter Day was such a joyous event for me because I couldn't wait to have some of the stuff that I gave up, and it makes being Catholic so much more special.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:56

Yeah, and again, that's that's the the holistic element of Catholicism with our human experience is such a powerful thing. It's underrated, I think, but it's it's a you it's a thing that I universally hear from converts that when they step in, and the way they describe it is they just say things like this is just deeper, there's something deeper about this and more like full. And what the what what they're saying is that Catholic being Catholic isn't just kind of your religious affiliation, it becomes who you are. Now, I have to say, everybody doesn't do it that way, and that's why you have the parishes you know that are in trouble. You have, you know, whatever. There are a lot of um Catholics who don't really practice their faith. Nominal Catholics, people go to church for heaven insurance. You're gonna come across and I think that what we have to do, and again, this is where I think converts can be helpful sometimes, is a convert comes in with this red-hot fire who's given up this stuff, and the Cradle Catholics, like, what did you do? What's all this about? And then it's kind of like, look, you got to understand what you have, what you've always had. That's that's a you know, a treasure that you were born with. So take advantage of it and and and avail yourself to to the benefits of it. And so I think sometimes that fire that these converts bring of how excited they are and how much they've they've worked to come into the church, it that it that excitement can spill out to everybody else around them, which I think is a good thing.

Sponsor Plug And Listener Q&A

SPEAKER_04 1:02:22

Um, okay. So what I want to do is two things. I want to do the knick-knack uh promo that I didn't forget, and Rob did. So knicknack.com, you're a new Catholic. We found a Catholic nicotine lozenge company, and if you don't buy these, you're not on the team.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:37

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:37

You guys, a lot of people think you got to pray the rosary to be on the team. No, you need to have knick-knack lozenges to be on the team. Knickknacks are a nicotine product. Nicotine is an addictive substance. This is not a smoking cessation device, it is a Catholic um uh sacramental.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

Oh my gosh, no sacramental. How do I get myself out of here? There, we get we get rid of him. That's what we do. That's how we fix this.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:07

Best ad ever. Nicknex.com. Go to nicknack.com, use code AB25% for 25% check off, uh check 25% off at checkout. You will receive uh 10 years off purgatory for every pouch you buy. I'm kidding, do not take me seriously. Uh, we love Nick Next, they're an awesome supporter. The other thing I want to do is Keith, what do we have to promote? Uh uh definitely, if you're a new convert, go out and buy Keith's book.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

I will put that in the description after this.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

The converts guy, yeah, a new converts guy, what to do in your first year. Uh, if you haven't started a podcast yet, you are failing as a new convert. We established that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

Um, we do have a couple questions too.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:51

Yeah, let's do the questions.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Um, so Paul here, if you're giving counsel to a young man, a young man discerning God's will for his career, where would you start? Um, basically, for young men looking to earn an honest living to support a family.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:06

All right. Now, this doesn't this has nothing to do with being Catholic, but honestly, if I had a son who was a teenager or in high school or whatever, I would tell him this. I would say get into the trades. Yeah. Um, because AI is never going to replace a plumber, AI is never going to replace an electrician, AI is never going to put a roof on your house, you know. Um, so if you're a physically um able person, I would I would say do something like that, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:35

I would say do something like that also because it's more fulfilling to do something with your hands than it is to sit at a desk all day. The the couple of weeks we were shut down over the winter because we had a brutal uh winter in New York this year, and I was home. I had a harder time doing this show when I was home than the days when I'm at work. Like when I'm at work, I'm I don't know, I'm I'm I'm busy all day. I'm able to check check some stuff to see what I want to talk about. When I was home, I was like, oh man, I don't even want to get on and do this. So there's something to working with your hands that's just I don't know, you you you feel like you accomplish something each day when you go to work instead of just like sitting around. Yeah, I wouldn't suggest becoming a podcaster, that's for sure. He said he wanted to support a family. I so yeah, there's no money in this, guys. Just so you know. There's really no money in this. And uh Mac is asking, who's your favorite drummer?

SPEAKER_08 1:05:30

Oh man. Um well, you know, I'm a rush nerd, so obviously I'm gonna go with uh with Mr. Peart. But one of my this is wild. One of my favorite drummers is actually coming to my house next week because he's a Catholic convert. Who? His name's Mike Miley. He plays drums in a band called Rival Sons, um, which is amazing. They're they're they're an incredible. Look them up. They're they're an incredible band. I mean, they're they're huge. And um he's uh he's a Catholic convert, and I reached out to him and and he was Like, man, I'm a fan of your stuff. So we've been talking, and he's he's actually flying out here next week.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:05

It's got to be interesting for you, right? Like you and a guy like Matt Fratt or something. Like they like people convert and they go looking for Catholic content. And you guys are probably the you know the main ones that people are suggesting to them. So you probably get those interesting, uh, you know, uh odd, you know, B-list celebrities that reach out to you and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:25

Well, I had I had Austin Peck out here. I don't know if you saw that, but he's uh he was on Days of Our Lives for a bunch of years. Like he's a he was like a TV star. Um, great guy, Latin mass, Catholic. I mean, he's on fire for his Catholic faith, but he uh he was in that uh that Mass of the Ages thing called Discover Tradition. Yeah, that's where I saw him, and I'm like, dude. So I reached out to uh to Tony from Mass of the Ages. I was like, I was like, man, I want to talk to this guy, and he connected me with him, and now we're now we're Buzz.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

Told people if you start doing those those those uh uh Spanish uh parades here in America, all of all the Protestants will convert. That's what we really gotta do. You gotta start doing those Spanish parades.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:02

And I'll one of the guys uh is saying Danny Carey from Tool, yeah, he's he's uh he's an incredible drummer too. He's he's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:10

Um okay, so we're gonna go to the other side. We have oh, all right. What's your advice?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:14

If you oh god, what's your advice if you become a sponsor for the first time this Easter, other than buying Keith books?

SPEAKER_08 1:07:21

If you become a sponsor, okay. So if you become a sponsor, I would say um just check in with your person, you know, throughout the first year, maybe once a month or whatever, just hey, how's it going? How you doing? You know, don't lose track of them. Don't let it just be a uh all right, you know, I stood up there with you, I'm out of your life forever. It doesn't mean you need to babysit them every day, but just keep in touch with them and let them know that you're praying for them and and um there for them if they need any help.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:49

That's good. Um anything else, Rob? Nope. Okay, so we're gonna go over to locals. I got a few things. We have a I want to do that that catagism of Trent video, Rob.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

That was pretty funny. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:03

That was funny. I want to dig into some of the numbers on the Catholic converts a little bit. We'll discuss Anthony Stein over there. We won't keep Keith too long, but uh yeah, we still we do an after show. So if you're checking us out for the first time, you guys want to check out the after show? That's where we uh we we get into some of the more fun fun topics that we can't discuss on YouTube. Uh Keith, your YouTube channel is just Keith Nestor.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:23

Yep, and then if you want to play the Rosary with us, I have a YouTube channel called Rosary Crew with Keith Nestor, and we pray every day there as well.

Aftershow: Conversions And Influencers

SPEAKER_04 1:08:30

I uh you gave us the idea to uh start like having people come on the show and ask questions and stuff, and they led to some pretty good episodes. So that was fun, yeah. It was all because of that Dominic kid that yeah, who uh Keith show who reached out to me Saturday and he asked me if I was going to the the vigil at St. Rocco's. I was going into Manhattan, so I didn't get to catch him, but uh he's probably watching tonight because I I sent them the link to the show. What's up, Dominic? Good to see you, buddy. But um, all right, so we're gonna go over to locals. If you guys want to join us, check us out locals uh dot com slash avoiding babble, or is it a vanic voting babble? It's literally on the bottom of the screen. Bottom of the screen. You guys click on it, get over there, it's where we have all the fun. All right, take us out, Rob.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:11

Oh, let's see. Oh, I think I got another video with Keith in it here.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:15

Yeah, do that one. Do that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:17

Wait, wait, wait. Not not the plain one. No, the one, the other one, the other taffy video, no? No, we're gonna do this one.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

Here it is, you might it's three beat. Now it's the darkness, that is the way. Dark ear the darker beat, brought here to you in the light of this day.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:54

Okay, that's enough.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:55

Yeah, that's a bit more jacky. I love that. Um, Rob, you know what I want to cover? Well, first off, the Anthony Stein thing was so ridiculous. I I made like a tweet last year about Trump, like the whole world being at war by the end of Trump's presidency. And Stein wrote to or responded to it, and he goes, Calm down, Shirley. Let's not be all effeminate about politics now. So I posted a screenshot of that today, and I was like, You guys still think I'm nuts for thinking this because Trump seems to be escalating us to war. And he freaking blocked me and said he's been getting a harassment campaign since my twitch. I'm like, you know what? I think that there's a major problem of guys not having other guys, like not other male friendships, but you guys break each other's chops. I like I I don't understand that that uh whatever. I'm not gonna get you to talk bad about Stein, but it's just it was bizarre. Um, Rob, I sent in uh the religion news service article, a wave of new Catholics is coming this Easter, not all for the right reasons.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

Oh, the one by the one that Thomas Reese uh tweeted out?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:02

Is that who is that who it's from, Thomas Reese?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

Let me find that one here.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:08

I sent it to Telegram, it's in there. Yeah, I see it here. Hold on.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:14

I'm putting it up on screen. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:20

This is this is interesting. So the Roman Catholic Church in the U.S. will welcome record numbers of new new members into full communion with the church during this year's Easter, and that should worry Catholic leaders as much as it heartens them. Catholic bishops are jubilantly celebrating the numbers, but there are good reasons to think the church needs to scrutinize what is happening more closely. Surely many people joining the church this weekend are coming for many, many different good reasons. There are reasons to there are reasons to worry, not all of them are. Stories abound right now of young people turning or returning to the Christian faith and surprising. How many times have to repeat the stupid headline? Uh, for a few years, uh, survey data confirmed that our country's long-running trend towards secularization seemed to have bottomed out. Religious participation had stabilized by 2025 lower than it was 30 years ago, but stable. Now in 26, we're watching the numbers go up. The trailing, the trailing revival following COVID pandemic might just be a coincidence, unrelated to the time we spent locked down and worried about our mortality. Oh my gosh, can he get to the point? Young people returning. Oh man, is it where does it get to it? Uh all right. Um the online world is a world of influencers. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

Hold on. No, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:39

Okay. They report there. All right, I'll read off the screen. They report how they are searching for something that will counter the alienation and isolation they found in the world around them. They are starved for the feelings of community. Human beings evolved to value and need. Yet, even these reasons might be related to the pandemic. I don't know. Okay, we can probably go down. Um, all right, this is where I wanted. The online world is full of influencers. There's one of this is one of those things about our world that has changed all of us insidiously and profoundly. More and more, our politics depends on memes and more than more than arguments. Our leaders behave more like YouTube stars searching out that quick like more than the common good. And influencerism has not left the churches untouched.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:21

It's ironic they're complaining about people coming to the church, but then they want to talk about the common good, which was basically developed by like Thomas Aquinas. Like, give me a break.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:30

Yeah, that well, it is an interesting point that the influencer ministries have. I mean, I'm not saying he's whatever. Like influencer culture has definitely changed the dynamic a lot. Uh, these ministries feed no one, clothe no one, shelter no one. They do raise enormous amounts of money, though. That's not true. Unlike parish diocese or any other ministry, they can pour all of their enormous resources into amplifying their version of Catholicism. As a result, these Catholic influencer ministries are more visible than the Catholic Church itself, and too often their message is at odds with the church. Yeah, this is uh this is this is weird because we're in that sphere that he's talking about, you know, and it's like the the I haven't seen enormous resources come our way.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:16

Yeah, me neither.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:19

What do you think? What do you think of influencer culture? Because I do think it's an issue. I think we talked about this last episode or two episodes ago, where when Leo came in, like uh Taylor decided to take a step back because I think under Francis, everyone blamed him for the bans on the Latin Mass because he was out there talking about the Latin Mass, and it seemed like they were using the Latin Mass as a way to uh rally against Pope Francis. But like influencer culture really has become an issue because so few shepherds actually speak out about stuff that it's kind of been left to us to talk about the faith now.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:55

I think that's that's I think that's interesting because what is meant by influencer culture, you know, like it's almost as if there is this desire to lump everybody in together and say that this is a movement that is somehow connected and moving in a particular direction. Really, it's just individual people sharing their opinions and making stuff online, but there's not some like network of organization that has an agenda behind it that is you know, everyone coming together. I mean, I know people tried to say that, you know, before, like with when Mike was going through his deal with that conference, was like, oh, you know, what's your face said that whole thing about there's this this connection between all these guys trying to do all I just that's not true. So to me, I don't I don't really I want to know what they mean by influencer culture.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:49

Well, I I saw the other day they uh like this the they were highlighting this one guy. This guy was uh he's a young guy, and he's uh he he's in New York. I think his name's Anthony. I don't I don't know, but he he organized um like a pizza get together at the parish, and now there's like four or five hundred young people going to this pizza gathering before mass. And it's like, yeah, it's a goofy little Instagram thing, the guy that has or TikTok, whatever he does. But whatever is happening, they're forming community, and these kids who were probably raised without faith are now all of a sudden finding something, they're finding a community of people who are willing to go to mass, and now they're making friends that are Catholic. Because part of the biggest problem we're facing is that kids go to public school, they're disjointed from anybody who shares their faith, and they don't have other Catholic friends, so all of a sudden, these influencers are kind of bringing a focal point to something, and it's giving these kids a sense of community, I think.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:45

Yeah, I see everybody wants to bag on all the problems with influencer culture, whatever. I think it's a good thing because like you mentioned it before, if if people in the hierarchy and and ordained priests don't have time to do all this. So look at the tremendous reach that people are are having doing this. I mean, we're getting people all I've been my my inbox has been flooded with people for the last two weeks just saying, Hey, I'm becoming Catholic. We had a conversation three years ago. Thank you for helping me. I your videos have helped. You know, I don't know how toot my own horn here, but I'm just saying, like, I've I benefited from that when I was when I was learning what the Catholic Church was, when I was like dabbling. We need to be out there where people go to learn things, and where do people just learn things to go online?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:41

It's just different now than it was two decades ago, right? Two decades ago, we all had the lighthouse Catholic media CDs and things like that. Like that just was the medium for uh that that we were able to get stuff, yeah. And what's funny is these people are all turning on guys like Scott Hahn now, too.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:58

It's uh it's it's really I don't see here's the thing because I don't that I saw a little bit of that article, and I just like I'm not giving this guy the time of day because what it comes off to me like is some grouchy, you know, dude who's just like wow, you know, and to me it just comes like you're that is not helpful at all, you know. Don't criticize people, get out there and do something.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:21

It's telling uh the the author is from the the Bernadine Center, by the way. I don't even know what that is. Bernadine was oh Cardinal Bernadine.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:32

Oh, Cardinal Bernadine. Oh, gotcha, yeah. No, what what's actually what I think is actually going on, so he's coming from yeah, he's coming from a leftist Catholic position, right? So you go back to the time when they had you know the council and all the revolutions happening, and the youth back then was pushing for these progressive changes, and what's freaking them out is that the youth now going like bring us tradition, like bring us. We I'm telling you, I think I think it's gotten back to Rome at this point that it's this isn't this like even the traditional Latin mass movement is not old codgers clinging to some old thing, it is a movement of the youth that are going there, they're finding something transcendent. You said your son-in-law, who never went to church at all, experiences the Latin mass, and all of a sudden he's like he's attracted to it, right? There's there's something they robbed during that whole period, they robbed from all of us, which was they made mass so pedestrian and casual that because they tried to like cater to the Protestant sensibilities, and what they took away was something so beautiful, and I think young people are just starting to discover that now, and they don't have something to counter it.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:47

Exactly. So, what's happening is people are seeing their grip on influence slip through their fingers and they don't know what to do. So the only thing they can do is criticize the people that are in that movement and say, Oh, well, the problem's with them. They're they're not saying like no, we've got our own problems. They should be celebrating that. They should be going, wow, isn't like like so people ask me sometimes, hey Keith, why aren't you on TikTok? And I'm like, I just can't be on TikTok. I'm sorry. I just can't do it. I'm too old, and I just I can't get behind all that. But I tell you what, I am so glad that there's this young crew of Zoomers that are Catholics on TikTok that are sharing the faith with people on TikTok. I don't look at that as an older guy on YouTube and I go, Oh, I'm threatened by that. These these TikTok influencers are terrible, blah, blah, blah. I go, praise God, they're out there in that place where everybody is. But some of these, some of these, and we saw the same thing back in the denominational world, right? Some of these older, older people that are clinging to their old way, that are seeing their relevance just slip away, they're stamping their feet in protest of it. And the only thing they can do is just kind of throw a little temper tantrum and say, well, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:01

No, you have to really think about this. Like, there isn't, I don't know a single successful Catholic media personality that that's not coming at it from an orthodox traditional perspective, right? Like you your content may not be super trad, but it's definitely orthodox, right? And you're not looking to push the boundary.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:22

No, that's what I mean. So your buddy, your buddy told me I was borderline blasphemy today.

unknown 1:22:27

Who?

SPEAKER_08 1:22:27

Which one? Which buddy? Sada Bacante. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:31

Yeah, my buddy. The uh he's accused us of that too, by the way. But they they what it is is nobody's watching where Peter is, like nobody's reading those things, nobody's watching the uh anything by that whole group. Like nobody's I don't I don't even know who they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:50

I couldn't name one besides Mike Lewis.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:53

And just because of my own interactions with Mike Lewis, right? It's not a knock to Mike, it's just there's no audience in the younger generation that's becoming Catholic for that progressive Catholicism. So, like when when when Francis was in, I think they had they were like, We got the rings of power, we're gonna, we're gonna just move this, we're gonna steamroll this stuff through. And now that Leo came in, and it's not all public like that. Like, I'm not crazy about a lot of Leo's choices and who he's elevating and things like that, but that public push for progressive Catholicism is out of the media completely. There's no, there's no unless you're like the crazy sedes, there's no um uh like landscape of anti-papal content anymore, like there was under Francis. Like it's just not there. You don't you don't really see you see a couple of guys like Anthony Stein going over every miserable story in the church still, but other than that, it's mostly guys like us who are just like talking about being Catholic and talking about how annoying women are. I mean, you don't do that.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:54

Well, I think I think it's and again, you know, you have to decide what you're gonna focus on. And this is this has been something that was helpful for me because by you know, by nature, I'm wired to be sort of an argumentative, kind of want to get in the thick of things and and and box with people and stuff. But as a Catholic, I learned pretty quickly that that's not helping me grow in holiness, it's not helping me to do, I want to focus on the things that are gonna be helpful to me. And when I see all these young people getting fired up about their faith, all these new converts coming in, the last thing I ever want to be a part of is poo-pooing that and going, Well, you know, well, actually, there's no time for that crap.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:34

So I just don't even look at it. Especially because a lot of these younger guys don't like we've been in it for a while, right? So we know some of the so like they're not doing everything perfectly. They're you know, they're kind of they're young too, right? They're just coming in, they're excited about the fate. They might be like I saw somebody ripping into them, like they're having pizza before mass, and it's like we don't know when they're actually having pizza, like relax, let them just well, that's a great point that you bring up because sometimes, you know, maybe some of the more trattier people can be a little bit too, you know, um cross-y when it comes to some of those things, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:09

And I guess if the shoe fits, wear it. But but you know, like people get every year, people throw a freaking fit when they see people having a contemporary worship band at a conference somewhere, that a Catholic conference, and they're like, oh, yeah, that's that's I mean, I'll still do that. I don't care. I don't want to see that be reverent. Now we're not talking about the mass, we're not talking about, but if if these young people want to have all right, but wait, wait, temporary music is part of their conference worship. Who freaking cares? Let them do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:42

Here's here's here's why Rob and I care, because we were traumatized by our upbringing when we were just to go to those things, okay?

SPEAKER_08 1:25:49

I I get it. You're you're scarred from and and don't get me wrong, I I hate the 6870 Sims more than anybody, okay? I because I grew up in that too, right? But but um I just think sometimes we can just be so finger waggy at other people and what they're doing, and they're not doing it the way I do, and they're not they don't like the things I like, and blah blah blah blah blah. And I think we just need to, you know, just go look. That's not my deal.

Worship Styles And Spiritual Stability

SPEAKER_04 1:26:10

Okay, so when it comes to like institutionalized stuff, I I I look at it a little different. Like, so when I see like the church putting on a conference like that, like I find that very different than like some influencers getting together and doing something. But when I see what what my gripe with something like that would be is that this it's it's the charismatic stuff had a bad effect on me, and I kind of in hindsight can see it made me lose my faith because it was very much about these feelings and the roller coaster high of like you know, you're you're you're around 5,000 people and you're all praying for the Holy Spirit to descend, and you know, and everybody's on fire. But then when you leave something like that, when the high wears off, which is kind of what I wanted to talk about on the show a little bit tonight, too. Yeah, because when that high wears off, it's like you do this mountaintop experience, and then all of a sudden you're down in the valley, and it's easy to get worn out by that and think you lost your faith and things like that.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:04

100%. But okay, so here's the difference if if that becomes like something that happens to you or something that you know, whatever, like it's like a rarity thing that you know, whatever. That's one thing. If that, but if that becomes like, okay, I have to do that every week, or I'm not, you know, that's that's totally something different.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:24

Yeah, like my dad, my parents went to Mejigori when I was a kid, and that like my dad had this huge conversion. He goes to Mejigori, has a huge conversion, comes home, he joins the music ministry at the local parish, and he's playing music. And my parents are going to all these retreats and stuff. They make me go to a retreat. Um, but what what I think happened with my dad was that like because he was doing these retreats and it was all charismatic stuff, he he my dad doesn't go to mass anymore. And it's because like I think that mountaintop experience wore off and it kind of got old for him, and he just kind of you know, where I think my Dad would have been way better off in a more stable, traditional environment. My dad's a, you know, he's a conservative. And I think if he was exposed to something more traditional and stable, it would have been more healthy for him spiritually, is all you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:13

I think that's interesting. I mean, you could, I think, I think it cuts both ways. I think there could be some people who say, man, I I grew up in a in a you know denominational dead liturgy environment where I didn't feel any power or anything at all. And I went to something like that that connected me, connected to me on a deeper level and it blew me away and like got me excited about the church. Like so I think I think everybody needs to do what's gonna work for them in terms of getting them into the the the Catholic church and into the faith to have that. And I think, like anything, you know, there there is a certain level of what's gonna be helpful to me and what's not gonna be helpful to me. But I don't but I what I don't necessarily ascribe to is to say, and I and I have to be careful because I do the same thing too, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:59

I have to understand there are you don't dip into any of these nonsense wars that we have out here. What'd you say? You don't dip into any of like the drama stuff, you're really good about it.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:09

What I'm saying is I have to remember too that there are people who like those hymns, you know. Yeah, I have to remember too that there are people who who and and God bless them, but like it's not for you, it's not for me. You know what I mean? Like, it's not for me. And I mean, my wife and I, we had this experience one time. We went to this church, we were traveling, and the people in the church were so on fire and excited for their faith. You could tell, but the mass itself did not connect with us at all. I will just say it that way. Other than, I mean, the liturgy is what is what it is. But I mean, there was like kids playing trombones in there, and they were singing every goofy hymn you could think of. And the it was just it was it was something like you see on a Saturday Night Live skit. And we were like, my wife and I were just horrified, but the people in there were so connected to it. And I remember thinking, okay, am I gonna go in there and say what you are all doing is wrong? You know, they were within the bounds of what the church teaches, they're not going outside of that. I'm not talking about people who do the clown masses and all that goofy crap.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:14

No, I just wish the church would be capable of a little self-reflection to see that they're there it's that experiment, you know, it might have worked for the for a certain generation, but it it's really not working for well, that's that's a good point because everybody in that church that I was just describing to you that was connecting like that is all in that old generation, okay?

SPEAKER_08 1:30:35

So what they have to understand is this, and what they need to realize is that that particular expression, musically or whatever, that is not connecting to the younger generation. And they have to be able to say, Hey, we don't want to stand in the way of what is gonna connect with with the younger generation that's coming in. And if that's traditionalism, they should be celebrating traditional things. They should be like going, hey, we think that's great, not like going, oh, well, what do you guys need all that crap?

SPEAKER_04 1:31:04

It's perplexing that that that it that it's it's yeah, I don't know, man. Like you you that that's the one thing I would always want to warn new converts about is look, you're coming into you're coming into a a dynamic where the the lady's a bit at war with the hierarchy right now, right? Like even even what um Baron did last week when he comes out and makes comments, and then the lady attacks him for his comments and stuff. Like this is kind of the environment people are stepping into, and they might be in for a shock when they see it. But don't be disturbed, like this is just family fighting, like it's just kind of like all families argue and we bicker and stuff. But uh, like when something like Cameron Riker losing his son happens, everybody jumps in and and and goes to bat for that person. When Trent Orne's wife was diagnosed with brain cancer, everybody jumps in and has his back. It's like we can have our disputes, we can have our arguments, but when it comes to when push comes to shove, like we're Catholic, we're gonna be there for each other. Yeah, amen. I think that's great. Um, the uh oh Rob, is is she gonna take one for the team or no?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:12

Is she gonna take one for the team? I told her we wouldn't discuss it on the show.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:17

Does this count as the show if it's on locals? It will to her. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:23

It won't to Anthony. I want permission. I'm not gonna go and blurt it out, but come on. Come on, Nicole's been Nicole's been the subject of this plenty of times. She's gotta have a sense of humor about it. If not, we'll play in the catagism video. Hold on.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:41

Hold on. Okay, I'll get permission.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:42

I won't blow her spot, but come on, hope. This is great fodder for the show. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:51

Okay, I'm texting her now. In the meantime, we'll play the cat. Let's play the catag. This video I sent to Roth the other day. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:01

I'm still not sure if it's real. I yeah, I can't tell if the guy's trolling.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:05

Okay, she says yes, you can. All right, so so should I bring up the photos?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:10

I've told the story on the show how my wife one time she gets she gets home and she just gets out of the car without putting the car in park, and the car just rolled right through my garage door, takes the garage out. Like, this is just something women do. They just, you know, your rims, you get a new vehicle, and your rims are toast. Rob gets a brand new freaking Mercedes like mini bus Mercedes 12 passenger sprinter van high roof.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:37

You can stand up in the you know, in the thing. The thing's awesome. Rob gets the trad minibus.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:42

I mean, it's like the it's every trad family's ideal freaking vehicle. Step number four on step number four on my list, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:50

It's amazing. And on the third day, I have to make an insurance claim.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:54

Rob, the dude, day three. Rob's first will be sending the pictures to to the group chat. He's like, bro, finally, I'm a trad. Look, I got the van.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:03

Her like being all happy and excited in front of it with our kids.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:06

And three days later, Rob sends me this picture. Just put the picture up.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:11

Hold on, let me find it. Just put the picture up. Okay, hold on. I got it, I got it. Let me uh share this. How do I share this? Day three.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:24

The on the third day, the van went through a process. So now these vans are look in her defense, the van's a lot bigger than the last one. And girls don't have great coordination. They can't, you know, they're just true. I mean, they are the inferior creature that got created.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:48

I'm not gonna say that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:50

I'm not gonna say that one. Oh, we're so hope goes to pull out of the parking lot, and you know the the cart things, she cuts the turn a little too quick, and Rob's brand new van needs an insurance.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:06

You sent this photo to Ant, and I just the caption was dude, women.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:11

I he didn't have to explain it. As soon as I saw it, I went, Oh my goodness, Hope.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:15

I just knew it. I just knew it. What's what's what's really funny is uh she was um she she brought my mom to pick pick up my mom's vehicle from getting service. So she dropped my mom off at that place to get to pick up her vehicle while she went to Target, had the little incident with the cart corral, and then um picked up uh uh you know groceries for my mom at Target and was gonna drop them off at my mom's house. So I'm on the phone with Hoba as she's pulling into my mom's after this has happened. She hasn't told me yet. She's waiting to get home, I'm sure. I'm on the phone with her and she pulls up to my mom, and I hear my mom in the background, what is that on the new vehicle? I hear the the phone just the phone call drops. I'm like, oh no. Oh no. Two minutes later she calls me, hon, I screwed up. I'm like, it's the van, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:36:13

Did you ever see the Sebastian Manescalco bit where his where his wife's like, Yeah, you can buff it out. Don't worry about it. You can buff it out. He comes out. Is it is it called that? Well, uh Sebastian Manescalco with the wife buffing out the day, like the wife hit like a column with the car in the street. She's like, You can just buff it out. I think he's like he had like ten thousand dollars in damage on the car. One of the greatest Sebastian Menescalco bits, Battle Scar. Um, yeah, that'll buff out. Don't worry about it. Well, you can play my my wife has had a few of these incidents too. They happen. We we give the girls a little leeway when they first start driving a new big truck.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:53

So yeah, it is way bigger than anything she's ever driven.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:57

For sure. Don't worry, Hope. We're not judging you. We thought it was just a good story to tell. All right, you want to do the catechism video? Keith, you're gonna love this. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:05

Uh how do I make this bigger? This might just work, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:11

Book recommendation The Catechism of the Council of Trent. This book was published in 1566, which makes it over 400 years old. And it goes into detail on how rulers used religion to gain control and take advantage of religious movements for power and wealth. Talks about how religious leaders already had influence over people's thinking and acted as guides shaping beliefs and behavior. The leaders of the movement against the church were ecclesiastics who had been acting as the people's guides and whose influence consequently could not easily be ignored. The rebellion was fomented and fostered by the civil rulers, taking advantage of the disorder, saw in rebellion a coveted opportunity of gaining absolute control over the people and of confiscating the immense wealth of the church, and hence gave to the religious leaders a support without which the revolt everywhere would have failed utterly. Furthermore, there was the recent invention of printing, which enabled the heretics to circulate everyone, thus confusing and deceiving the minds of the simple folk. One of the most pernicious features of the multitude of the catechisms which the sectary circulated far and wide was that their errors were so veiled under the semblance of petty that the unexpecting faithful were deceived with incredible facility. Pope Leo the Thirteenth, in an encyclical letter of September 8, 1899, said to the bishops and clergy of France that this work is remarkable at once for the richness and exactness of its doctrine and for the elegance of its style. It is a precious summary of all theology, both dogmatic and moral. He who understands it well will have always at his service those aids by which a priest is enabled to preach with fruit, to acquit him self-worthily of the important ministry of the confessional and of the direction of souls, and will be in a possession to refute the objections of unbelievers. Both recommendations.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:25

That's gotta be fake. I would hope so. But the catechism of Trent sounds awesome. I remember reading it when I was in seminary.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:35

We we studied the case. What to refute it? No, we just it was part of history. It was just part of we wanted to, you know, we wanted to know what what was going on during the Reformation. So we read that and we read the the we read. I used to have I got rid of it, you know, years ago, but I used to have a book of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:49

And I was like, I wish I still had it now. Ironic is you, as a Protestant pastor, probably read more of the Catechism of Trent than most Catholic seminarians do these days.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:00

That's funny. Speaking of uh seminary, I so I went up to our rite of election at our diocese at our cathedral, um, you know, with my my kids, and I met this young man who is converting, and he goes to the same seminary I went to in in Dubuque. Um, he was a student, he came there to be a pastor and he converted. And he's you know who his classmate is is uh redeemed zoomer. He goes to that school. Get out of here.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:29

I think um I yeah, I don't know. I think I think the influencer thing goes that way too, you know. It's like you get you get people putting, I mean you get guys like Taco Talks and you get oh gosh, like the but the Protestant um the Protestant influencers are so bad. None of none of them none of them can gain a following without trashing Catholicism, not a single one. So it's not like any of them are producing this uh wonderful works of of of Protestant theology and everybody's just attracted to it. No, every single one of them gets their following by caricaturing Catholicism and making some nonsense up. That's what I've seen. Yeah, every single one of them. Um, all right, we got any uh any stuff in the chat before we uh before we let Keith go. You look exhausted, Keith. What time is it for you? It's early for me.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:19

It's later for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:20

Yeah, he's early. He's in the real time zone. Yeah, you're gonna say something, Rob? I was gonna well, I was gonna say the only thing in the chat is everyone saying that the catechism bit was bad.

Conversion Surge And A Culture Backlash

SPEAKER_04 1:41:34

And they were all saying, I can't believe we let women drive. Uh um all right, so the other thing was okay. So let's actually get into all right. So US Catholic see 38% surge in adult converts. So, yeah, this look, I mean, there there's clearly something going on with converts, right? I mean, yeah, there's uh even like uh my like my son said, like all his friends are starting to ask him questions. My wife went and got her hair done the other day, and the girl was like, uh, I know you guys go to I know you guys go to church a lot, and she started talking to my wife about stuff. Like people there does seem to be something happening where people are more interested, and there's maybe like a little bit of an excitement behind it. So like you really just have to hope that even if the numbers at large, because Rob, you said what, like more people are dying and leaving the church than are even converting, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:42:35

I mean, I I think we're we're just in a general demographic decline, right? Especially like um like in rural areas, like in my area, you know, we this this year, you know, it's a town of 3,400 people, and we had two people coming to the church at the local parish. Yeah, that's two more than I've seen any uh other year since I've been up here for five or six years. So that that is good, you know. But I bet if you added in all the say infant baptisms that have happened in the parish to those two, it's probably like one quarter to one-tenth of the number of funerals that the parish has celebrated.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:14

But that that is that I mean that is just where we are at demographically. So overall, yeah, the numbers are definitely going to shrink just as the boomer generation shrinks. Um but yeah, we're gonna be a smaller, but I think a lot younger and more vibrant church in the end, probably.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:35

I I think so too. I mean, I think that's like when people complain about, oh, well, all these people left the church, that doesn't rattle me because I think about why are they leaving? You know, are they leaving because with now with the people that are leaving, were they committed to their faith? Were they practicing the faith, or were they, you know, not really invested in that? Because to me, the real the true believers are always a smaller group than what's the what you see that's there, you know. Yeah, and when people are converting, they're not joining the Catholic Church because it's cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:12

Yeah, you get a couple of different things. So you get you get the some people convert because they're marrying into something and they have to, right? Yeah, but there's there is something interesting happening in the culture right now that I don't think has ever happened before, where people aren't putting their kids through the sacraments that are culturally Catholic anymore. Where I think in years past, growing up, even if you were a cultural Catholic, you'd put your kids through the sacraments. And you know, even if you after the kid made their confirmation, you never went back again. I don't even think that's happening anymore. I think that's on the decline. Yeah, yeah. Like people aren't even caring if they get married in the church. People are pushing marriage off till later in life in general, right? They're not getting married in their 20s anymore, they're getting married in their 30s. So I think just infant baptisms are gonna drop drastically, kids making their first communion is gonna drop drastically. But hopefully these adult converts that are coming in are on fire for their faith, and the next generation after them is a more stable one. Because I think we've that's where we're heading. I think a lot of the people that we that we are interacting with at least see the mistakes their parents made, see the mistakes of the father letting the mother be the one who teaches religion. And I think a lot of the young men are taking a way more proactive approach with their children, even if they are getting married later and not having as many kids.

SPEAKER_08 1:45:30

Yeah, I think that's I think that's huge. I mean, I feel like the generation, like the younger, the little kids right now are gonna change the church. I believe that. That are raised in the faith with these on fire parents that are that are, you know, millennials and Zoomers and even some Gen X, you know, it's like, okay, those kids are gonna be brought up with this powerful faith experience. I think I think it's gonna be a tidal wave the other way. And I think a lot of it is a reaction, you brought it up earlier, a reaction to what happened back in the 60s and 70s, where everybody wanted to water everything down to be to open the floodgates to bring in the world. Well, guess what? The world doesn't care, the world does not care about what the Catholic Church is doing. So you're not gonna be, you're not gonna water down the Catholic faith and attract the world because they're already where they are. So what you have to do is double down on the things that make the Catholic faith transcendent and ancient and larger than all of that. And that's what's gonna attract people into it. They're not gonna come into something that is just a watered-down version of what they're already doing. This is what I was telling the Methodists when I was in when I was in the Methodist church. Like they were they were wanting to like dial back anything to the point where it was like, okay, you know, homosexual marriage, we're gonna do that. Uh, you know, all the now you're just presenting a social club at that point, right? What are you offering? What are you what are you offering people? You you think that if you can make Jesus somehow on their team, they're gonna like all of a sudden want to join your church? Yeah, it's it's crazy. I don't care about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:02

That's actually what the girl doing my wife's hair the other day was saying. I totally forgot this. So my the the girl doing my wife's hair was like, I know you guys go to church, and she was asking questions because she has little kids and she's like, you know, I never really went to church and stuff, but I'm afraid if I don't give my kids something, they're gonna fall for like the um they see the they see the freaking gender garbage going on and they see the LGBT crap going on. And there are still some normal people out there who don't go to church and are like, I just don't want my kids falling into that crap, so I better give them something.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:36

Well, that's refreshing, at least that like the culture has gotten so crazy and so ridiculous that even people who aren't who aren't practicing the faith can at least see that and go, whoa, if this is where all that ultimately heads, I got to go the opposite direction. And where's that gonna take me? You know, and what when they do that, when they turn their head from the world and begin to look toward the church, what they need to see is something that is bigger and more transformative than what they're already doing, just with like, you know, a little Christian spin to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:09

And I think that there's like a massive surge, and especially young women being exposed to like witchcraft and stuff right now. My wife, my wife was watching a freaking a girl, she it was a cooking show she used to watch on YouTube, and all of a sudden the girl starts talking about her crystals and she's a witch, and this and my wife's like, I can't even freaking watch a cooking show on YouTube anymore. It's like insane. All I want to do is learn how to make the stupid recipe, and the girl's talking about witchcraft, and I think that's being like pushed out everywhere. So, like religion is happening, whether it's Christianity or something else. So I think it's important.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:44

And that's why that's why it's so important that the Catholic Church be as Catholic as it can be, because it needs to be that light shining in the darkness, not a dim, you know watered down, milk toast kind of beige, boring, mediocre, everything goes sort of, you know, hey, it's you know, it's it we're just like you, kind of a thing. That's the mistake that I think the generation had made is that they try to say, look, we want to be relatable, we want to reach out to people, we want to open the windows and the floodgates and all this kind of stuff so we can go out and reach the world. Well, the only the way that you reach the world is not by becoming the world, the way that you reach the world is by shining your light brighter so that when they realize the darkness is so bad, they see you. But if if what you're offering them is milk, they can get it somewhere else. Why would they why would they want to become part of the church?

SPEAKER_02 1:49:39

Well, it's it's like that saying, you know, meet people where they are. Well, what if people don't want to be where they are? You know, what if they want to be somewhere better? Like yeah, people say, hey, here's where we're going.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:49

You know, I uh I had a I had like an hour long conversation with a priest in New York the other day. He uh he was he was he's a priest that I was introduced to like a year or two ago. Ago and he he called me on my way home from work the other day out of nowhere. I haven't spoken to him in over a year. And we just talked for like an hour, and I was and he's in New York. He's a priest in the Archdiocese of New York. And he was just talking to me about uh uh uh the new bishop in New York because I was like a little hard on him. I was like, Oh man, why you know? And he goes, I I just want you to know, uh, we had our meeting with him like a week or two ago. He's like, and I know he, you know, he's not the most masculine man out there, he goes, but we had a meeting with him, and then this priest says both forms of the mass, and he goes, and I'm the the first thing the bishop said to these guys was, I have no hostility whatsoever towards the Latin mass. I just want you guys to know there's nobody gonna be trying to restrict you guys at all. So whatever you guys are doing, you get to keep on doing like and this is coming from the new bishop in New York, which makes me hopeful. And the but the other thing I realized is like I'll I'll like I I'd praise for these diocesan guys so much, man, because they're under like tyranny a lot of the times. But the uh just just like to if just to even have friendships with priests, because they need they just need friends, you know what I mean? They're probably like you think about like the solitary life of a priest, and uh I don't know. It just the fact that he called me the other day and reached out to me, and we talked for like an hour. We could we talked about like the trad movement a little bit and how like the trad movement is pretty curmudgeonly, and everybody gets on top. He was telling me that uh like some young people came to him and like they got so obsessed with like Alphonsus Ligori, they were like, Do you think we should have a pre-chaperone our first date? And he was like, Oh man, because like we were talking about how like these young men are in trouble, like especially I go I try to actually tell young men like if you're gonna meet a chick, man, you might not want to meet a trad girl, like go meet go to Stubenville, you know, Friday festival, pull a normie out, and then bring her over to tradition.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:01

Some of the trag girls are a bit much, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:06

That's when yeah, you've gone a little bit when St. Alphonsus, you've gone a little bit too far down the the Tism trail there.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:16

But that's kind of what happens, right? And I think a lot of a lot of the a lot of the younger guys do have autism, and they're attracted to St. Thomas Aquinas, and they're the these are the Thomas guys that I think you know, you guys gotta loosen up a little bit, man. You gotta take a take a chick on a first date.

Praying Through Deployment And Marriage Tension

SPEAKER_08 1:52:32

That's why I said like earlier, you know, have fun being Catholic, enjoy it, you know. Yeah, don't make everything so serious all the time. You can you you should be joyful. So, um, all right, so when do you when is your son expected to come home? I I wish I could tell you, um, we ultimately we don't know. I mean, hopefully soon, but we we don't know because so he may not actually come home for Pentecost then. He he might not. We're hoping that he will. We have we have reason to hope that, you know, we dare to hope that he will, um, but we don't know that we don't have a guarantee on that.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:10

Man, keep keep Keith Son in your prayers, guys.

SPEAKER_08 1:53:13

Uh the world is getting a little wild out there. And he's prayed for him and his wife. His his wife is is uh she's been through it, man. You know, she she moved away from her home to come up here. She's super close with her parents, and her dad just died um like two months ago. He just dropped dead out of you, no, no reason. 48 years old, you know. What? Yeah, it's crazy. It was so sad. And and you know, I mean, we loved it. He's a great guy. My son loves him.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:43

He loved my son, and and what's that? And just got a hit of mortality there. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:53:53

I'm almost 48. I mean, she's she she talked to him every day. They were they were best friends, her and her dad. And like I said, great, great guy. We got to spend time with them quite a bit, and and you know, she's up here without her husband, who's over in a war zone, and we're walking through her with as much as we can, you know, but we're not mom and dad. We're I mean, we're we're very close to her, but it's she needs her husband to come home to help her with all this, and then all you know, so she's she's but I was so proud of her because even in the midst of all that, you know, she's right in the middle of this Catholic journey, and she just leaned into it even harder, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:31

Um, your your story of your kids, I I I think it gave people a ton of hope today, just because I think there's so many people out there with that spouse that's not in, or their kids left the faith, things like that. It's I think that's one of the hardest crosses when you when you you have like a later in life reversion and you start taking your faith seriously, or a conversion, all the people around you that you start to worry about. I know my um uh I I don't I don't want to say their names, but I have friends who they're so worried about their kids because yeah, it's like they like she uh she she had a later in life uh reversion, her husband wasn't Catholic, her husband then finally converted and became Catholic, and now now some of her kids are taking the faith seriously, and some of them aren't yet. And it's like you all you do is worry about your freaking kids, man. It's like uh my my parents, the same situation. My my I have eight siblings, four or five of us go to mass every week, the other three or four are you know, just doing their own thing, and you I just see the worry that weighs on my mom's heart constantly about this stuff.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:36

Yeah, but keep praying for people and don't give up on them, you know. And and never think that the situation you're in right now is the way it's always gonna be. Like last night, I talked to a woman on our live stream and she was like, What should I do? My husband, I want to become Catholic. My husband is forbidding it, you know. What you know, what do I do? Do I disobey my husband to become Catholic? Or what I said, no. You I said, but here's the thing you got to remember the situation you're in right now is we gotta pray that that situation changes. But the answer is not you don't think she should she should become Catholic without her husband's permission. I don't know. I don't. I think here's what I think. I think that what she should do, and again, I'm just me, I don't have any authority, okay? But what I think she should do is in her heart embrace the Catholic faith and do the things that she can do and and and all of that, and work toward changing that situation to a point where her husband would allow her to do that, so that she doesn't have to like put the Catholic faith as now this thing that has come into her marriage. Because if you think that her husband is going to be more disposed toward Catholicism when he sees Catholicism is the thing that stands in the way of his of his leadership, that's a bad thing, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:54

So what we're gonna do in that situation is put the brakes on that part of it, but pray and fast and sacrifice for an open door for her to begin to share her heart with him so that he can be soft and pray that his heart would have a softening so that he would at the very least allow her to pursue that. Um, but it's not this one or the other thing. I don't think.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:20

I don't I know I mentioned him the other day, Rob. The what's the guy's name? Look up drunk ex pastors and just see what the guy Jason's name is. Um, this guy Jason, he was uh he was a Protestant pastor. Yeah, he discovers Catholicism, comes into the church. As he's coming in, he starts getting like all of the um like the journey home is approaching him, and you know, the whole the whole media circuit's like they want him to write a book, they want him to get, and he's like, I don't know if I want to become a professional Catholic. So he decides not to become a professional Catholic. He becomes Catholic. His wife is still part of the church that he was the pastor at. Yeah. And he she ends up leaving him because he became Catholic. Jason Stellman. Jason Stellman, and she ends up leaving him, and he's just like, my whole freaking life fell apart. I became Catholic. He lost his wife, and he ended up going down like liberal Catholicism. He wound up becoming friends with like Mark Shea, who had Trump derangement syndrome and stuff. And I think a lot of that was because he like he he was just alone and he had nobody. His wife and kids are gone now, and he's like he he wants to maybe go and meet somebody because he's I mean, the guy was in his 30s and his freaking whole family just split on him. Terrible, and it was under Pope Francis's pontificate, and Pope Francis is talking about allowing the divorce and remarry to receive communion and stuff. And I think he just got taken down that road. I don't know. He was a smart dude too. Like that's how I found him was because I heard his original conversion story, and then it just yeah, it's a it's a rough one when it divides a marriage.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:02

It really, it really is, and I think I think that's why you have to you have to you know understand that when there's that division and that split, that's an opportunity to really bear that cross, but to show the other person the faith and it and really formulate why you're doing what you're doing and help them to understand that. But I don't think the thing you should just do is say, Well, I'm being Catholic, screw you, bye. You know, like that's not gonna, that's not that's a that if if the I because think about it for a second, if the ideal is the family is Catholic together, that's the ideal, right? What's more likely to get you to that ideal if you just say, Well, I don't care what you do, I have to become Catholic, screw you, or to say, okay, I'm going to be more obedient to you. I'm going to be a saint in your life to make idea. I'm going to bear this cross. And the Lord knows my desire, the Lord knows what I'm trying to do. I need those graces. I need God's help. And I'm going to bear that cross obediently with the goal that we can that I can present to my spouse this beautiful version of Catholicism. Which one do you think is more likely to get you to that ideal? That's the way I look at it.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:25

Yeah, I got uh the there's a young kid who's uh he's 17, he lives at home with his parents, and the the the kid's father is a pastor, he wants to become Catholic, but the father said to him, Listen, you're under my house, you still live in my house, you have to be obedient to me. I'm gonna tell you I don't want you to do this yet. Once you move out of my house or once you go off to school and you're 18, if you still want to make that decision, you can. And the kids, that's what he's doing. So he wanted to become Catholic this year, yeah, but he's waiting another year because he doesn't want to disobey his father.

SPEAKER_08 2:00:57

I think that's and I think that's godly for him to do that, you know. I think that's god, and I know some people are like, no, no, if you know, trice came to divide, and you must hate your father and hate your mother. That's a tough one. I I think I think that there's that's a different type of situation, okay. I think Christ was saying that to prepare us for the recognition that people are gonna come against us, but we're talking about biblical authority here, okay? We're not talking about your friends not inviting you to a party or whatever. We're talking about the biblical authority structure that Christ has set up. The husband is the head of the wife, okay? And the the and and the head of the children. So the there needs to be that respect for that there. Now I know if you were, oh, well, what is the one of the husband wants the wife to commit sin? You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Well, you got to remember something. When they got married, she wasn't feeling called to become Catholic. Like this is this isn't something that he agreed to at that point in time. So this is a new thing. You have to work with that. It's and it's tough, it's messy, it's not so cut and dry. I think sometimes those, you know, those those Thomistic dudes with the autism are so they don't have any understanding of gray area or nuance or whatever. They just everything is like a uh you know this hardline thing that is just one way. It's like, okay, dude, you sometimes you gotta just figure out the best way to get to the ideal.

Closing Words And Next Steps

SPEAKER_04 2:02:21

You gotta remember who Christ is speaking to when he says that stuff, too. He's speaking to the Jews who, when Christ comes, there is a legit schism amongst the Jewish community, right? Like he's talking to like when he's saying, I came to bring not peace but the sword, he's talking to Jews who are literally have to that's what happens, right? Like they who think he's the Messiah versus those who don't, it rips the Jewish community of the of the first century completely apart. And I think a lot of that was him speaking to those people. I mean, it happens in it does happen throughout history, obviously. Christ's words are timeless, but he is speaking, especially those Jews, those first century Jews who when they can when they accept him as the Messiah, like they get completely cut off. Absolutely. So, um, all right, we're over two hours. We're gonna wrap this one up. Keith, we love having you on, man. Today, I love you guys. Thank you guys for you brought a little joy and hope after Easter, man. That's why we wanted to get you on because well, so I can provide that. Nah, dude, you're you're an awesome friend, too. I love talking with you. Likewise, likewise. We're we're gonna figure this conference out, and you'll be a speaker there, and uh, everybody'll get get to come and hang with Unk. Um, and uh yeah, there's people asking why why does it say Unk of Doom before? They're thinking that we're confused. I can't want to analyze anybody. No, Keith, you're awesome, man. We love hearing you. We love being here.

SPEAKER_08 2:03:49

Thank you guys, man. Thanks for thanks again for having me, and uh congratulations on the growth of your channel and and uh thank you the the the uh community that you're forming here, you know, and just just keep encouraging these young men to to strive for holiness and and strive for truth, and and uh it'll be awesome.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:07

I honestly tell your wife I can't wait to meet her. I will tell her she's awesome. And your children, I'm so freaking happy for you and your family situation, man. That'll happen one of these days. We'll we'll make it happen. Well, if you come to the conference, you're bringing her. So well, we'll see about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:21

I just might have to drive down to Iowa sometime.

SPEAKER_08 2:04:23

I do hey man, you just make sure you're driving.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:34

Line of the night, you're not gonna top that.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:36

Let's wrap the show up. Take us out, Rob. Here we go.