Pope Leo Just SHUT DOWN Same-Sex Blessings — "We Do Not Agree"

Pope Leo XIV just shut the door on the German bishops' push to formally bless same-sex couples — and the four-word line everyone is repeating tonight is "We do not agree." Leo's response, aimed squarely at Cardinal Reinhard Marx and the German Synodal Way, didn't stop there. He reframed the entire conversation away from sexual morality and toward "justice, equality, the freedom of men and women, and religious freedom." We're going live tonight to read the full statement in context, unpack what it actually means, and get into the bigger questions it raises about the state of the Church.

Plus — biblical scholar Sam Shamoun joins the stream to clarify scriptural passages on the Antichrist, the Great Apostasy, and how the early Church Fathers actually interpreted these prophecies. You don't want to miss this one.

🔴 LIVE TONIGHT: Anthony and Rob break down the Holy Father's full statement, the German bishops standoff, Leo's surprising comments on borders and immigration, and where this leaves Fiducia Supplicans and the Vatican II legacy.

Transcript

Cold Open And Offbeat News

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Um, why is God so anti-Semitic that whole that whole Israel uh doing the the gay pride parade right in the sight of of Sodom and Gomorrah? Like, are they kidding me?

SPEAKER_04 0:40

Hey. At the very least, you like you got some balls, guys.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

You got some gay balls, but you got some balls to try that. Yeah, because they they chose that spot as a middle finger. Like to like, that's why they're doing it there.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Putting the one wire all over all the way around, like you know, Manhattan. You know, that that that's one thing, but you're giving God a middle finger for people that don't know that.

SPEAKER_05 1:07

All right, so like on Sabbath, they're not you're not supposed to leave your house. So they put this wire around like all of um, oh shoot, what area in Brooklyn is it? It's like this whole area in Brooklyn, so that because the wire encloses the whole area, they're allowed to like go out and walk around. It's an entire property then their property because the wire stretches around. It's like, oh, we tricked God, we're so smart. But yeah, no, it's not Williamsburg, it's um oh man, I can't somebody say Williamsburg. No, I don't know, whatever. Who cares?

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Not that important, but we weren't I don't know what happens if you snip the wire, but I know that would they like to snip something else though?

Sponsor Reads And Housekeeping

SPEAKER_05 1:48

That would be a hate crime, right? Like they would the FBI would show up at your house. Um yeah, we uh we weren't even gonna do the show tonight. I um like all day I I thought I had to go for uh a medical exam for my CDL, and I was driving to it, and the doctor called me back, and they were like, Oh, we can reschedule it for you. So like I I wound up being able to get it rescheduled, and um like last minute, I was like, I guess we could do this show now. So we we didn't know what we were gonna talk about, and then we saw the Pope Leo comments. We're like, all right, maybe we'll do a short show tonight. We'll do like 20-30 minutes on on YouTube, and then we'll jump over to locals and hang over there for a little bit. But it's uh it's kind of an interesting uh thing with the Leo thing. But I guess you know what? Before we even get into that, um, Black Monk Rosaries. I think last week I said uh the thief on the cross was saved by praying ten hail marys in the black monk rosaries.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Yeah, what sort of craziness are you gonna say this week?

SPEAKER_05 2:49

I you know, I I thought we weren't doing a show tonight and I didn't come up with anything good, but I really do want Black Monk to be swamped with our promo code.

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So um I I get an email every time someone uses it. I think we've sold them a fair number of rosaries.

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SPEAKER_04 3:30

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SPEAKER_04 3:44

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SPEAKER_05 3:56

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SPEAKER_04 4:32

We do have to say uh Nick Knack contains nicotine and it's addictive.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Yeah, nicotine is addicted. Addictively good, addictively good, and it is not a smoking cessation device. Um, yeah, this this Leo story is um it kind of just like confirms me in everything I think. I don't know, like just watching the way this is going. I I I I put up uh Pope Splainer's tweet and Christopher Hale's tweet. Pope Splainer just gave like the first half of Leo's comments, and Christopher Hale gave the second half of Leo's comments.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Hold on. There might be people who have no idea what comments we're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 5:09

So Pope Splainer. I mean, this is yeah, this is you want to just bring up the tweet then? Yeah. I guess you could look look for my tweet.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

So uh Pope Leo I'm not I'm saying why don't we read what Pope Leo said.

SPEAKER_05 5:19

Yeah, well, I have the video. I sent the video. We could actually play play the Leo video, we'll go through it.

SPEAKER_06 5:25

Um I definitely sent one of them that has the video.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

So yeah, we'll play the we'll play Pope Leo's comments, well, his actual comments, and we'll we'll dissect.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Um, I would like to know how you assess the decision of Cardinal Reinhardt Marx, uh, Archbishop from uh Mun uh Munich and Freising um on the um permission the uh that he gave permission to the blessing of same-sex couples in his diocese. And in light of uh different cultural and theological perspectives, especially in Africa, um, how do you intend to preserve the unity of the global church on that particular matter?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

First of all, I think it's very important to understand that the unity or division of the church should not revolve around sexual matters. We tend to think that when the church is talking about morality, that the only issue of morality is sexual. And in reality, I believe there are much greater and more important issues such as justice, the equality, freedom of men and women, uh, freedom of religion, that would all take priority before that particular issue. The Holy See has already spoken to the German bishops. The Holy See has made it clear that um we do not agree with the formalized blessing of couples, in this case, homosexual couples, as you ask, or couples in irregular situations, beyond what was specifically uh, if you will, um allowed for by Pope Francis and saying all people receive blessings. When a priest gives a blessing at the end of Mass, when the Pope gives a blessing at the end of a large celebration like such we have today, there are blessings of all people. Francis' uh infamous, famous, uh well-known uh expression of tutti, tutli, tuti is an expression of the church's belief that all are welcome, all are invited, all are invited to follow Jesus, and all are invited to look for conversion in their lives. To go beyond that today, um I I think that the topic can cause more disunity than unity, and that we should look for ways to build our unity upon Jesus Christ and what Jesus Christ teaches. So that's how I would respond to that question.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

It's um look, I mean, he told the German bishops they can't formalize this thing. That's good. Um but uh I I have a I have a priest friend, uh diocesan priest friend, who like he's he's worried that um he's worried that Leo is in some ways like because because like Francis caused a lot of stir with stuff, right? Like every every time Francis would say something like you get the headlines out of Rome. I mean, we even we got Fiducia supplicants from Francis, you know. Yeah, and in some ways Leo's like putting uh boundaries on that, which is good, right? But in but in other ways he's formalizing the stuff that was like so controversial under Francis, so it's like except nothing he said there was formal.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

No, I mean, like it's not a formal decree or anything.

SPEAKER_05 8:53

No, I know, but he's he's he's like um like there's not gonna be any corrections of anything, in other words, right?

SPEAKER_04 9:00

Like it's gonna just probably not.

SPEAKER_05 9:01

I mean, there's not gonna be like and I will get excommunicated. No, well, well, that's another interesting thing because I was I was speaking with a different priest about uh excommunicating Germany, right? And like I know as like traditional or orthodox Catholics, like our instinct is excommunicate the heretics, but schism really is a sin of charity, and it it doesn't it doesn't go well when the church uh excommunicates entire uh countries, like um I see what you're saying, uh I guess it wouldn't go well today, you know, like maybe during the Middle Ages and like actual I don't I don't think maybe individual bishops, but not an entire bishops conference, like that it didn't go well with England, it didn't go well with the East West split.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

Like it's a but once yeah, but then there were many other times where the Pope laid an interdict on a on a on a county or on a duchy or on a whole kingdom, and it was successful, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

I yeah, like you said though, I don't see that we live in a different age, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:13

It would it would drive it would harden their hearts.

SPEAKER_05 10:16

And I I think that in some ways it's um like what's going on with Germany is you know, like you even see what happened with the SSPX, like Benedict really was going out of his way to lift the excommunications and trying to bring them back in. And it's uh it's once you once you once you lay that excommunication down, it's especially now, it's hard to heal that wound. And I think you know, you're not just excommunicating those bishops, you're basically cutting off Germany from faithful, like the faithful Catholics of Germany. What do they do?

SPEAKER_04 10:51

All 20 of them.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

Yeah, and I know I know it's not pretty over there. It's not pretty over there.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

I guess I mean, so what 50 50% of that statement was not bad. The other 50% was what you would expect from every Pope after the council, I guess. Um my biggest criticism would be and it's I can't I I don't know if it's gonna happen yet, but what happens with the SSBX in July? Like, are they gonna have you know the book thrown at them?

SPEAKER_05 11:28

I don't think I don't think they'll have the book thrown at them. I think it'll just be one of those late sentencia excommunications, and nothing will be said, and it'll be oh, we should well except except the last time in '88, it was still that that same sort of excommunication, but they did uh say it the Vatican said it publicly.

SPEAKER_06 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:46

Now is Leo gonna do that to the SSBX and yet not do anything when because we all know Cardinal Marx is going ahead with these formal gay blessings.

SPEAKER_05 11:56

Yeah, I don't yeah, this is a good question. Do we think excommunicating individual bishops is gonna be successful for bishops in this age, or is pride too strong? Like with Vegano without the shunning of all Christendom, one yeah, that's a good point, man. Vegano's only gotten hardened down in his position.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

And look, it's not even like vegano's become the mega hero. You ex you excommunicate Marx, and he's just gonna be a liberal hero, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 12:22

Like vegano, I just can't take seriously because he called Trump the catacomb. I mean, like, how do you take somebody seriously? Because Vegano's first few letters came out and they sounded like epistles from like the first century. Is that like what like an epistle uh from Barnabas or something? It really did sound great, and then he started mixing in with the political stuff, and he lost me.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

It's like do you think he's actually written all of his stuff? That's a good question. Because we're talking about kind of a nobody before, you know, but he he was just a kind of a nobody pol. He was a the nuncio to the US. Like, does anyone know the current nuncio to the US? No, like I don't know, you know, it was his whole career Christophe Pierre, very strange. I think I know it. Yeah, well, because it was just in the news last week.

SPEAKER_05 13:12

I know because we're like uber nerds, I'm probably wrong anyway, but it's like we're we're like uber nerds about this stuff, but like, yeah, I don't know. I think look, I think that we we as Catholics need to just just understand this is where we are at the moment, and I I personally don't think we get a restoration of Peter until after the Antichrist. Like, I just don't. I think this stuff continues on, and I think in some way, like Peter is still the restrainer, but you do have this weakened version of Peter, like every Pope since the council. I mean, it's just what we've seen since the council, every single pope. We talk about it all the time, but they just there's this reticence to put forth the the teachings of Christ boldly. They're just they're just kind of like these, you know, he's got all that religious freedom stuff mixed in. Now, at the same time, we're not in a time where there's Catholic countries with Catholic kingdoms and Catholic kings, right? So, in a certain sense, the Pope kind of does need to talk about religious freedom for pe for Catholics living in in hostile lands.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

He was coming back from his trip to Africa, you know, for that on that interview. Like he had just you know, I mean, there there needs to be freedom for the true religion in Africa, and there's not in many places, so so so it's it's appropriate at the same time. I'm not gonna pretend that's exactly how he meant it, you know what I mean?

Excommunication And The Germany Question

SPEAKER_05 14:39

Like, yeah, yeah, I think we're in a situation in the world now where there's going to be so much hostility towards Catholics that I they're kind of grasping at straws, like no no no, religious freedom, religious freedom, because there's uh dude, there's persecution on the way, you know, and uh there's persecution on the way, and it's gonna start subtly, and it's gonna start with you know, uh Catholics, especially Catholics if they speak out on certain issue, you issues, you're going to see a lot of pushback and stuff. So I think that the all the time, you know, I think the the the issue of religious freedom spoken about at Vatican II was a major problem.

SPEAKER_04 15:19

Yeah. Um potentially, I mean that especially in relation to to the Jews and and Muslims. Um it's probably the what the biggest error of Vatican II. Um, hang on one sec. Who are you texting?

SPEAKER_05 15:39

Joe. Doesn't he get enough of you at work now? I mean literally in the chat, he knows I'm on a show. Why are you texting me? It's like um the I'm sorry, Rob, what did you say? I don't even know. No, I think um I I think even with the other statement Leo put out today, what was the other one? Uh the other question they asked them.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

Um, did you see the it turned that it turned out that the um uh praying for Francis on the the day of the anniversary of his entrance into heaven was a misquote like a made-up quote? Yeah, I mean, yes and no, it was obviously from the the Pontifex Twitter account. Is that really a 12-year-old girl?

SPEAKER_05 16:24

Maybe that really is a post story.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

But whoever tweeted it was um paraphrasing uh Leo's quote from his whatever you know address he gave on the anniversary of his death. And in the address, Leo said on this the anniversary of Francis' death. But in the Twitter tweet, it was on this the uh you know the anniversary of his of his birth in heaven.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Yeah, that's kind of shady. Um and then the other one was uh the uh Pope Leo talks about his uh the the uh borders issue.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

Um the oh yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

See if we could pull that one up. Um and this is another one. It's like you could you could nitpick it and you could find issues with it.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

It's just the look, it's it's a so I don't I don't have a video, but the quote is uh from Leo. I personally believe that a state has the right to establish rules at its borders. I do not like the idea that everyone enters as if there were no order, and at times creating even more unjust situations than those they had left behind.

SPEAKER_05 17:33

Yeah, look, so what what what you would really want a pope to say is something like we need to uh treasure our national identities, and you know, you'd want him to push for um you know nations to to maintain their their heritage and to have a love of patrimony and things like that. But you did get, I mean he, you know, you're getting you you you're just getting bland Catholicism. That's just what that's just what we what we're what we're in store for, and I I I think that's just where where we're where we're gonna be at. So I I the um the I wish man. I wish you'll say I gotta I gotta I know who we didn't get it from.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

We definitely didn't get any money from the ADL.

SPEAKER_05 18:27

No, but it it is kind of interesting that all the stuff that we're allowed to say now that we used to not be allowed to say. I did get uh a couple of uh DMs from Eric Salmons, which is interesting because like he he kind of like stopped talking to me and now he's kind of talking to me a little bit again. And uh one of them he goes, Let me know how I can get some of that that sweet SPLC money. That story is interesting. We should get Dave Riley on. Dave Riley was involved with the um Unite the Right, Riley, the Unite the Right rally, and the SPLC got him like fired from his radio gig and all this stuff, so he's he's kind of going off right now. We should get it, we should get him on.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Um, but I don't know if we're gonna get the Catholic answers money when we have a AI Trent voice um on our intros.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

I said Trent will literally have a gay apostate on a show before he has one of us on it.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

I mean, that is literally what he did, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:21

He responded to that too. Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know where we fit in because we're we're not like I I we're not Pope's planers. We're not gonna, I don't, I don't, I think it's stupid to highlight just the one portion of what Leo said to sound like he said said some base statement. And I think it's also wrong to highlight just the other part where he says we should just focus on, you know, this causes disunity and we should stop focusing on sexual morality so much because that's not the only morality that exists. In a in a way, you could take that as a subtle shot to the Germans, too, right? Like to the Germans saying, like, you guys are too focused on sexual sexual issues, like let's let's focus on on bigger matters. You guys are so obsessed on this because that was an obsession of the 60s, and it's not I mean, Trump, Trump coming in was kind of an end to that obsession on that stuff, and yeah, no, Christopher Hale's cut uh cutoff was very shady, but uh it's something you would see on life site news. True, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Matter of fact, I think I did see that on life site news too.

Quote Mining And Media Spin

SPEAKER_05 20:25

Life site news would do this like Christopher Hale could work for life site news, like it's just it's the same thing where you're just you're you're quote mining something to make it seem like he's saying one thing when he did say the thing, they did it to me with the um uh with uh uh I think it was Canon 212 today. Canon 212 uh took a quote from me and he and he said uh from a from a body, he said, Are you are you people that retarded? Are we really talking about midterms? We're way beyond voting. I'm an accelerationist. Let's let the freaking Democrats get in. But really, what I said, I did say that, like he did that's a proper quote. He just cut it off because I said, No matter who you vote for, it's the same freaking party. Even looking at it through a right-left dial dialectic is kabbalistic witchcraft. So he's cutting it off to make it sound like I want Democrats to win when my position is it doesn't matter who wins. So this is like the game people play with with this stuff. It's you know, when you when you misattribute quotes or you give uh a portion of a quote, and you know, I think what we talked about last episode is where I'm settling in on my position, where I I think I think the Pope is absolutely the catacomb.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

I think that it's or the the papacy in general, the papacy in general, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Benedict XVI And The Mystery

SPEAKER_05 21:48

Um, and yeah, and I think that he is a restrainer, and he was a restrainer today with the German bishops. I just think that strain that restrainer is handicapped in the time we live in. And I think that the symbolism of the the the handicapped restrainer is very important to understand. I actually just ordered another book uh about um I ordered a book on Pope Benedict's uh understanding of the evil within the church. Um let me s let me see if I can actually get the uh the name of the book. Hang on. It is I just ordered it. It's called Oh, the mystery of evil. So uh the mystery of evil. It's like the unveiling of the apocalypse is the unveiling of the mystery of iniquity, and what we're watching right now is the mystery of iniquity taking hold of the world, of the church, all this stuff, and it's kind of just playing out in in in front of us. Another interesting thing is um, when you go into that whole thing we talked about last time. If you guys didn't watch last episode, I thought it was a really look, we could be wrong on some of the stuff, but at least it's interesting, it's like interesting stuff we're talking about. And it was what was interesting about it is that uh Pope Benedict was was telling us to read Ticonius. And Ticonius's uh uh thesis is basically that the the great apostasy is not about people leaving the church, it's about the church itself, like the hierarchy becoming apostate, and then the true church will eventually have to leave that church. And Benedict pointing to Lefebvre so often was interesting that like he said, uh Lefebvre could be might in uh we don't we don't really know the consequences of Archbishop Lefebvre, he may be the most important bishop of the 20th century or something, something along those lines. Paul talked about it. He's like the uh schisms must come because it's uh they're they're they're they reveal something. And I think Benedict saw the SSPX kind of doing that in that they were holding to tradition and holding to these things, and he wanted to keep that close to the church so that we, you know, he wanted the mutual enrichment. He didn't want us to lose. He didn't want us, they didn't want them to just be cut off as schismatics and have and not have people have any access to tradition. Benedict giving us tumor and pontificum, I think, was him trying to build greater devotion to the mass because he saw the consequences of the new mass, and I think he wanted to build up devotion back to the mass. I like I really do see what he was doing there as attempts at having a hermeneutic of continuity of some kind, but it just it just didn't work, man. It just you know, it's and then and then Francis coming in. Francis was like he just gave ammunition and he gave he reignited these wars that were going on in the 70s, these wars that were going on in the 70s where the liberals were going crazy, and then when John Paul II came in, he kind of tempered that down and put forward like this new way to look at Orthodox Catholicism. And it was like, all right, we'll have the new mass, and you know, we'll have this religious liberty thing, and we'll have all the stuff from the council. He tried to put a framework for the council to work, and that gave rise to a whole like a whole industry of people pushing the new springtime, the hermeneutic of continuity. Uh, you all have really helped me understand so many new things as someone who's been Catholic for three years, coming Corpus Christi. Yeah, look, because the I do think what Rob and I's role in this whole thing is to keep keep people like not freaking out when you see kind of things like this. And don't jump to orthodoxy and don't jump to settivic contism, don't do any of that. Like, this is part of like Jesus told us these things would happen so that we would not lose faith when they do. Um and this whole this whole period in the 70s like gave gave it it had like you had the liberal segment and you had the conservative Catholic segment. So you had the uh like the the the Franciscan University and the Scott Hans and you know the the Steve Rays, and and that's how Catholic Inc kind of comes into being. And Scott Hahn, how many conversions come through him? And uh, and then you have the the liberal segment that was always always had to kind of hide themselves, and they would always mask themselves and come out, and you'd see these super liberal cardinals not really come out in the open, and they would go to the March for Life rallies and they would talk about abortion, but behind the scenes, they were always up to this liberal agenda behind the scenes, and they were doing horrific things in the seminaries. And when Francis comes out, those guys are reinvigorated, and all of the all of the debates that we thought were settled under John Paul II and Benedict, because after John Paul II uh passes, the like these groups were thinking this was their chance, they were gonna they were gonna get their guy in, and then Benedict gets elected, and they're just like, Are you kidding me? And Benedict, he was called God's Rottweiler on the under JP2's papacy, man. It was like he was called God's Rottweiler, like he was the he was the doctrinal chief of the CDF, you know.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Which which really goes to to show you just how uh how degraded things were in that time that Benedict, who sure is a conservative, you know, like he's a modernist conservative, right? Like he's uh like if he's God's rottweiler, what the hell were you guys at like wanting in the 70s and 80s?

Ticonius And The Great Apostasy

SPEAKER_05 28:05

But no, but dude, I will tell like I still have a deep affection for Benedict, and especially now, like I really think I don't know going back in love with Benedict right now, and and it especially for all right, so in in the 2017 era when the McCarrick stuff breaks, I blackpilled hard on JP2 and Benedict. Like I really did, I blackpilled hard on those guys, and I'm like, oh, I was looking at was the Assisi meetings and the the the abuse scandal, and then hearing that Benedict was the one at the council that was pushing for all this stuff, and I blackpilled hard on those guys. And yes, Benedict's a modernist, but he's our modernist, that's a good way to put it. Yeah, it's actually a good way to put it. And what the past couple of months have actually done for me is given me the ability to see this stuff in more of a more of a God's divine providence kind of way, and um still be able to have a deep affection for those guys, and uh, especially Benedict, man. I'm telling you, the the way Benedict viewed things is so interesting to me because I even think he saw himself as the bishop in white in the Fatima prophecy.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

There's a very easy answer to this, JP1. Yeah, 30 days.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

I mean, it's not even close. I'm I'm like for real. I'm not even kidding.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

I'm not even kidding, it's not even kidding. It's 30 days over the best 30 days since 1965.

SPEAKER_05 29:32

No, I I still think it was Benedict. I think it was Benedict. I think I because I think Benedict um saw the error of a lot of the things he was doing when he was part of the concilium and all that stuff, and I think he had regret. And I I also think he was as those things were going on. I do think those guys had like this hopeful outlook and this optimistic outlook, and then there were revolutionaries in there also who were trying to undermine the whole thing and put their revolution in, putting in ambiguity that they knew they would weaponize later on. Like, all that stuff is true, but I do think there uh like a guy like Benedict, who was a German archbishop, a German cardinal who was forced to join the Hitler youth, uh, and he has all this guilt associated with the Holocaust put on him. And then you have John Paul II who was in Poland during all of this stuff. Like, I think those guys after the war, they were just like they wanted to they wanted to see joy again. They lived through such horrific times, such dark times. And I think they like John Paul II for all his faults, I think he really did see it as a new springtime and a new evangelization and a new Pentecost. But really, it was like the birth of this new thing that was coming about. And I don't think they foresaw the wreckage. I and I think Lefebvre did. Lefebvre just had a different kind of foresight than those guys did, and Lefebvre saw even before the Assisi meetings, this is a disaster because he signed all those documents.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

Lefebvre was French, they're like eternal pessimists.

SPEAKER_05 31:04

But he signed all those documents, he was at the council, he signed all of them because even he got caught up in the in the ambiguity of it, and then once he saw how the council was being administered, once he saw the damage it was doing to people's faith, he just he did like an about face and he went, No way, absolutely not. And then I think he went to celebrate mass somewhere, and they wouldn't let him celebrate the mass he had always celebrated, and that for him was just like this black.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Just as as as Ant was saying, Dark Times be avoided Babylon.

Living Through Prophecy Without Panic

SPEAKER_05 31:38

I don't I don't know, man. What do you guys want? I mean, you know, we will find more joyful things to talk about. But but we're uh I want to be realistic about the Leo stuff. That's all. Like, I want to be realistic about it. It's because I see I see what some trads are doing, and I'm like, I don't I don't know what the end game is. I don't know what the end game is for them. Is it just this bitching and moaning? Bitching and moaning, and just trying to are you trying to blackpill everybody? Like, I don't know what comes of saying Leo's an anti-pope. I don't see how that's beneficial to anyone. I don't see how this is helpful. Like, I just don't see what the end game is for those guys. What what is it? Is it is it I don't know. Like, I don't know. I I the the Cardinal Manning book had a really big effect on me, and I just and then the St. Catherine of Sienna quote where St. Catherine of Sienna said, if the antichrist himself sat on the chair of Peter, I would not resist him. Or I would obey him or something, right? And she's not saying she would obey the antichrist, what she's saying is there's something so reverent about the chair of Peter, there is something so important about that C that even if a wicked man gets on there, you don't, you don't, you don't put yourself up as it might be a misquote. I don't know, you're talking to me here, guys. I don't know. Like you know, whatever, whatever. It's still it's still look, you know, it's kind of like preach the gospel, use words when necessary, I guess. One of those, but you know what I'm saying. Like the the the chair of Peter is such a holy thing that you I think that if you're positioning yourself against Peter, you are, especially if you're wrong. Like, do you know the eternal consequences of something like that? Like, if you're wrong on that. So I think the whole good. No, I can't I can't imagine. And look, I I do think things are going to get uglier, and I do think this mystery of iniquity is going to get more and more bold within the church. And I don't want people to blackpill from it. I want you guys to actually see it as you're living through seeing prophecy unfold, and God chose us to live during this time, and it's gonna be super difficult, but it's also like my faith has never been more alive because of this stuff, because in a way, that like I I feel for the people, the trads right after the council, because they must have been just so confused because you're you're in this position where like obedience to the pope, but you also you know, you're I don't know, it just must have been such a confusing time. That's why so many people left. So many people just left because they took away like the innocent faith of like the little ones, you know. And I think in hindsight for us, we have a little bit of a distance between the council and now, and in some ways it's scarier because we've seen the progression get worse and worse, but in other ways it's like you can actually you can make sense of seeing man, especially the especially the the situation of the the confrontation between the Jews and Christians right now, man. That is that is something that is just I don't know, like I know people you're supposed to, you're supposed to develop, like I not that you're supposed to, like a lot of people see that confrontation and they they develop a hatred for these people. A lot of people see that confrontation and they get very fearful. I look at it like we're watching God's plan unfold, and holy cow, man, like everything he told us would happen is happening, and we're watching it. And I don't know, I'm I'm in amazement at the way God's plan is unfolding. Um, I think spiritually we're seeing now is an anti-Saint Francis mocking spirituality, the Assisi meetings of a version of Saint Francis meeting the Sultan, the Pachamama and Climate Cultists, yeah, for sure. Look, you get into the you get into um Archbishop Fulton Sheen's prophecy, also, right? And even um even Saint Padre Pio, both of them like St. Padre Pio was like uh Satan is going to come to rule in the church. Archbishop Fulton Sheen said the the there will be an ape of the church that for all those looking on, it will have all of the appearances of the church, and that's not a unique prophecy to these guys. Like when you go back and you watch, you you read all of the mystics throughout church history, they talked about this happening. So I don't like people shouldn't freak out and don't think in your head that because Christ promised the gates of hell would not prevail, that it would not appear as if the gates of hell have prevailed, because it will appear as though they have. And then at the last second, when things seem at their darkest, God is going to come in and do something that will leave no doubt in anyone's mind that God did it. Because that's how we that's it's that's the that's the that is the crucifixion and resurrection. And this book, the the uh the end of the present world book really has me convinced that the coming of the antichrist is not the end of the world. It's it's not the end of the world, that there is going to be a glorious earthly resurrection of the church.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Uh that's a pretty pretty pretty small minority opinion there.

SPEAKER_05 37:09

Maybe, but it kind of lines up with our lady saying her immaculate heart will prevail in the end. Um, and there will be uh an age of Mary. So I don't know. I've but I'm not I'm not I'm no longer like the end of the world is coming. I'm more just like the Antichrist is coming. Like I don't think that means the end of the world like that. And it might be a minority opinion, but that's the kind of the interesting thing about um apocalyptic speculation is that we're not going to know until it happens. Minority opinion, but it can be orthodox, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

We love it. It can be, but it can also be heretical too. Like in what way it uh kind of borders on um almost like the millennial, millennial, uh millennius.

Antichrist Timeline And Millennium Debate

SPEAKER_05 38:03

Millennium, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't think it I don't think it's going to be some thousand-year reign of the church. I think it will be a period of you know, maybe 50 years or something, and then and then ch Christ's church. I don't know. Well that's that's kind of what that book was putting forward. That's all I'm saying. Um first the oh so you're yeah, the triumph of Mary comes before the Antichrist. Is that what you're saying, Father?

SPEAKER_04 38:29

I mean, that that's generally how it's perceived, right? Before the Antichrist? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:37

I don't know. I don't know. I feel like we're on the cusp of the Antichrist right now, man. Oh, that's I yeah. I I'm gonna actually look into all of this stuff way more because um 50 years, that's definitely heretical. I don't know. I want I I would like to know if it's uh contested. Um, I'm going before I shoot my stupid mouth off, I would like to kind of look at where these different opinions are coming from. Yeah, I would you know what I mean? Because I I don't like the idea of just chasing mystics. Like I want to know what the fathers think on it, I want to know what the church has taught about it, but I do know that um the stuff the the popes have been saying for the past century have been the antichrist is near, you know, and and that I think uh when does the destruction of Sede Inc. fall on the timeline?

SPEAKER_04 39:38

I thought we were calling them complaining, complaining. Do your research before talking. That's not what people tune in for, Ann.

SPEAKER_05 39:49

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

That is true.

SPEAKER_05 39:51

No, I will I will I want to look into it more because I don't know. I'm going by this book, and this book makes it seem like there's that the antichrist is not is not slain by Christ himself, but kind of like by the word of his mouth. Like I what what um where is that in the apocalypse?

SPEAKER_06 40:10

Uh let's actually read the verse. Hang on. Sorry guys. Researching the way Revelation 13 3 Revelation 13 3. Apocalypse 13 3.

SPEAKER_05 40:42

Um one of the heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth flew uh followed the beast that would wonder, men worship that. I don't think it would be that I think it would be it.

SPEAKER_06 41:06

Oh man, this is terrible. I should have had this up already.

SPEAKER_05 41:11

I don't know, you gotta find the verse where anybody know it offhand? Uh Daniel states Daniel states the Antichrist will reign X number of days, and then says that there will be uh 40 plus 45 number of days between the arrival of Antichrist and the second coming. That's interesting. Uh the Antichrist will reign for three and a half years. We know that. It'll be three and a half years of his reign, and we will lose the sacraments during that time. Like the the the holy sacrifice will all right. Let's bring Sam Shamoon on.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

Oh, uh Second Um Second Thessalonians 2, 8.

SPEAKER_05 41:52

Uh, hold on. Bringing Sam Shamoon on.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

Hold on.

SPEAKER_05 41:55

What Sam Shamoon's coming on, hang on. Hang on, hang on, hang on. This is good. We need it, we need a scripture scholar for this.

SPEAKER_04 42:03

Judy, we have 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 42:06

I'm getting off of 20 minutes. Yeah, but bringing them on. Hang on, hold on.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

So it's 2 Thessalonians 2.8, and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. But I guess the according to the book that the whatever the book you have there, that um a visible or powerful manifestation of Christ will slay the Antichrist without ending the world yet, according to that book.

Sam Shamoun On Key Scriptures

SPEAKER_05 42:41

Yeah, that's kind of what it was saying. It didn't give a period of time how long it would be or anything, but that that it's it's uh like through the through the mouth through the word of of Christ or something or the tongue of Christ, but Sam will know. Sam's Sam's gonna come on. Hang on. Uh what Sam? Let's go. We we we really do only have like a little bit of time left. Uh he just texted me. He said, Bring me on, I can help. Here he is. Let's go. Halal Hogan. Halal Hogan, what is up?

SPEAKER_08 43:20

Your friend doesn't like me. He said 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 43:22

No, no, we we said we were gonna keep this one to an hour.

SPEAKER_08 43:26

We said we were keeping tonight to an hour, but let's see him rip. That's all right. No, I was gonna comment because you said he doesn't slay him yet, because in 2 Thessalonians 2.8 it says he slays him. You mentioned because I typed it in uh in the comment section, 2 Thessalonians 2.8, the man of sin, the Lord will slay him by his appearance and the breadth of his lips, which is a fulfillment of Isaiah 11, verse 4. But Revelation 19, if you read it, the way he slays him, he doesn't kill him. He throws him and the false prophet alive in the lake of fire. That's Revelation 1920. So if you go to Revelation 1920, 19. He doesn't slay him physically. How he slays him is he sends him and the false prophet into the lake of fire alive.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet, who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped in its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur, and the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

SPEAKER_08 44:32

Then what's interesting, however you interpret the thousand-year reign, whether you're Amil, whatever in Revelation 20, verse 10, it says, After the thousand years, Satan is loosed, he brings armies like Gog and Magog against the saints in holy city, fire comes down. Then it says, Satan is thrown in the lake of fire, where the beast and the false prophet are. So if you go to Revelation 20, verse 10, he'll read it for you if he has it.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

The devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

SPEAKER_08 45:11

So two things before yes, question. Notice a thousand years later, they're still burning in hell. Because Satan's thrown in a thousand years later, and then it says forever and ever. So when it says slays him by the breath of his lips and his appearance, slay here doesn't mean slay him physically, slay him means he throws him to hell because it's a second death. And we don't believe the Bible contradicts. So that's all I wanted to say to help you out on that.

SPEAKER_05 45:35

We uh, so we last episode we were kind of going through uh some stuff and just kind of listen, uh, going through uh some of the stuff Benedict was talking about and how the great apostasy, he he kept like uh Benedict kept making all these references to Ticonius, and when you go back and you read Ticonius, Ticonius's understanding of the great apostasy is not that not that everybody falls away from the church, but that the the bishops themselves will apostatize. And that when you're reading in in the apocalypse about the a third of the stars falling from heaven, those are bishops that are falling from heaven because they're actually spewing out the devil's propaganda from the from the seats of their church, and that Ticonius believed that in the in the end during the reign of antichrist, the true church will have to come out of the church because the church will so it's like it's he does it in like a tripartite where it's like within the church there's the body of Christ, the body of the devil, and then the other third is the body that is outside of the church. And he says the team the the the devil within the church and outside of the church will team up to crew to persecute the true church within the church, and and it's not it's not that hard to see it that way because we see it in our midst, right? We do see bishops and cardinals who are out there spewing like the German bishops that we're talking about tonight, right? The German bishops who were trying to push this uh same-sex marriage and things like that. And it's it's it seems like that's that is the dominant mode of bishops that are in in power today. So it's a it was an interesting show. We we we got into that stuff.

Revelation 12 And The Meaning

SPEAKER_08 47:13

I gotta watch it from the beginning because I just finished my show. I was responding to a Brack Hebrew Israelite distorting the scriptures that Jesus isn't a God and God is ahead of Christ, and so I went really in depth. But yeah, someone made a comment. They thought Revelation 12, 3 to 4, that the third of the stars were actually demons. No, actually, that is an interpretation. Just want to let the person know, commented. Something that's when the third of the angels rebelled, that is one interpretation, but it's not the only interpretation because, in the context, the third of the stars, in its immediate context, would actually refer to the 12 stars, which are the crown on top of the woman's head, 12 stars, sun and moon under her feet. Woman, though it does point to the holy mother, the Theotokos, it has multi-layered meaning. Yeah, if you read Revelation 12 carefully, I don't have time to pack this. Obviously, you guys gotta go. Revelation 12, it is an interpretation of Genesis 3, the woman and the serpent, the war between him and her, his seed, her seed. Right? When the woman is birth and labor pains, Genesis 3:16. Nonetheless, it then points to Israel. How do we know? If you guys go to Genesis 37, 5 to 11, real quickly sum it up. Joseph has two dreams. He sees 11 sheaves bowing to his. That's the first dream. The 11 sheaves are his brothers, they bow to him. Then he has a second dream. He goes, I see the sun and the moon, 11 stars bowing to me. Sun and moon, 11 stars bowing to me. What did the woman have? A crown of 12 stars, sun and moon beneath her feet. That's Israel, because Israel's called a woman. But Mary is true, Israel, because this woman gives birth to the Messiah, and that would apply to Mary all the more. So some actually think that a third of the stars means that some of the Jews will be swept by Satan to do his bidding. So it doesn't mean it's angelic.

SPEAKER_05 49:21

Nonetheless, just want to let that gentleman the the um the last episode the last time I had you on, when you took me through the seat of the serpent and the seed of the woman, and you showed me how Apocalypse 3 9 is a fulfillment of Isaiah. I I don't know if I've had one of those like moments where my brain just lit up and just like went crazy from in a long time. It was just such an exciting episode. If you guys didn't watch my last episode with Sam, um I put out we put out a like a 20-minute clip of the end of the show where Sam takes us through the seat of the serpent and the seat of the woman. It is one of my yeah, it is one of my favorite uh scripture lessons I've I've ever done.

SPEAKER_08 50:03

Pray for me because I got a lot of issues, especially anger issues, and people think I'm a meanie. Pray for me, I need to be safe. Rob, you gotta get to confession, Rob. Just one thing I want to say. This brother called it the chilliest hearsay. You gotta be careful because there were saints of the church, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, just two of many, and this is something not only for my research, Robertson Genesis confirms that took the thousand-year reign of Christ literally, it became more of a doctrine that was objected later on, and with the influence of Saint Augustine, others viewed the thousand-year reign as being a reign that takes place on earth as being silly and stupid. In fact, Eusebius insulted Papias, just real quickly. Papius was the bishop of Saint Hereaplas who wrote a commentary on the sayings of the Lord in five volumes. Eusebius had access to it. Papius says the thousand-year reign takes place on earth and it's future. Eusebius thought he was stupid for saying that. But there were saints of the church that took the thousand-year reign to be future and literally on earth. So when you say it's a heresy, be careful because you don't want to say they were heretics because they're not. So just be careful.

SPEAKER_05 51:18

I think, uh, I think that in in some way, as the church spreads and paganism is destroyed, there is a reign of Christ, and the church develops its doctrine of Christ the King, and all the nations at some point, not every single nation on the entire earth, but all of Christendom, they have kings and leader and rulers throughout all of Christendom who do see Christ as king. And I think there is in some way a literal sense in which there is a reign of Christ the king on earth during that period. I don't I don't know if you'd call it a literal thousand years, but it's a very real thing where where God's spirit covers the earth, all the nations do come to him, and that's how that's how the kingdom of heaven it's like like heaven colonizes earth after the resurrection, and through the church, and the church through her bishops are these these they are um oh man, they're uh they're rulers for like the stars from heaven, it's because they're principalities, right? So the reason why a third of the stars falling from heaven is a symbol of the bishops is because the bishops actually are these principalities that rule Christ's kingdom. Um, there's there uh if Cornelius Alapidae interpreted, I think it was uh Apocalypse eight or nine, eight or nine talks about a star falls from heaven, opens the key to the abyss. Yeah, he he actually interprets that as he says that Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin prefigure the Pope and Bishops, right? If you see it typologically, and the the star falling from heaven opening the key to the abyss is a bishop of very high importance doing something to open the key to the bottomless pit that allows Satan to then come back up. You talk about the binding and loosing of Satan, like Satan is bound at the resurrection, and then this rain happens, and then there's a loose, a loosing where Satan is released from the bottomless pit and causes havoc on the earth again.

SPEAKER_08 53:14

So it is it is uh send me send me an email or text. I like to read how the early fathers and saints interpret because remember, I'm new to this game, I really like to see that interpret. That's that's interesting. And to confirm something when you said stars, Daniel 12 3 says, Those who are wise and teach people wisdom shall shine like stars of the firmament. So believers are likened to stars. So that is basis. And another interesting thing, I'm sure you know this, but preach in the choir. If you pay attention to the word angel in the seven churches, the word angel can mean messenger, and I'm actually convinced that's referring to the bishop of each church. Because why would John write a letter to a spirit creature to read?

SPEAKER_05 53:57

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_08 53:58

Yeah, that's interesting. Isn't it interesting that the church of Smyrna? There's only two churches that are praised. Revelation 2, starting it now forward, Philadelphia. The second church that's praised is Smyrna, Revelation 3, 7 to 9. And when he writes to the angel of Smyrna, if we take it to be the bishop, he then tells them that some of them will be martyred and they'll be given a martyr's crown. Is it a coincidence shortly after the book of Revelation? Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna, is martyred. And Smyrna is only one of two churches that God praises for being faithful. Yeah, could it be that when John wrote that, that bishop was Polycarp himself and God was praising him and talking to him from heaven?

SPEAKER_05 54:42

Yeah, that's interesting. And oh, I mean, Ticonius actually thinks because I was just reading this. Ticonius thinks the letters that that John's uh that that John's writing to these churches are a symbol of how it's going to look in the end. Now, Ticonius is a Donatist, he's a heretic, right? And and he uh he he's he pulled out away from the other bishops because he thought he was in that time, because he's in the time of the collapse of the Roman Empire and he thinks he's in the apocalypse. So it's it's a very delicate thing to talk about, especially when you're seeing Benedict talking about this stuff because jumping the gun and leaving the church because you want some pure church or something. That's not the way to look at this. Like Benedict was just hinting at us to get us to understand the mystery of iniquity is something that the church has always dealt with. There's always this spirit of evil within the church that the wheat and the tares grow up together, the sheep and the goats, and we leave it to Christ to separate. And it in the apocalypse it also says, Come out of her, my beloved, so you don't partake of her blasphemies. But it's Christ who tells us that, it's not us who make that judgment and leave because we think we know best.

Closing Plans And Next Stream

SPEAKER_08 55:52

Glory to God, brother. Send me those commentaries, please. So I just wanted to explain how he slays him and how he doesn't slay him, because obviously in Revelation 19, he throws him alive into the into the lake of fire. So the slaying means condemning them to hell, right? Right. So just to be clear, because that's if you just take 2 Thessalonians to 8 face value, it seems like he dies physically when Christ comes, but the slaying is that the Lord by the breath of his means his command, he will then command that the man of sin, false prophet, be condemned in hell the second death, and be sent there alive. Right? So just that's it. I know you guys have now need to go. Are you going to the other channel?

SPEAKER_05 56:37

I think we're gonna kill it. I think we're both exhausted. We weren't even gonna do a show tonight. I think we're I think we're gonna wrap it. No, uh, no locals tonight. You guys that are already on locals, we'll make it up to you, I promise. But uh, Sam, I'll send I'll I'll me and you'll figure another one out. We'll get you back on, man, because I I I love doing deep dives into this into scripture with you.

SPEAKER_08 56:56

I don't care what your partner says about you if you're he's the worst, he's always touching me.

SPEAKER_05 57:00

He's the worst. All I do is talk him up. He's always got something to say. No, Sam, thank you, man. We appreciate you, brother.

SPEAKER_04 57:05

Thanks, Sam.

SPEAKER_05 57:07

All right, Rob. Um, we will uh figure something out for Tuesday, and we'll be back on Tuesday, guys. It was uh it was a great show. And uh, we got anything before we close out.

SPEAKER_04 57:17

I got uh I got an email from our wine friends. Well that's right. They want to be sponsors again.

SPEAKER_05 57:25

Yeah, I want to push them for Mother's Day and Father's Day.

SPEAKER_04 57:29

Might be a little late for Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_05 57:31

We got a couple weeks, I guess. Ask them if our promo code's up because uh we'll figure something out. Yeah, because I it's a great Mother's Day gift. I I would I would love to get them back on board. And I would love to get I'm gonna get I would like to get some for my mother-in-law. I'm gonna I'm gonna get a bottle or two for my mother-in-law for Mother's Day. So, um, all right, guys. We will see you Tuesday. We'll give you guys more on Tuesday. I'm sorry, we you know we kept it at an hour tonight. Sorry for the locals fans, uh local subscribers. We'll make it up to you, I promise.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

We'll figure something out.

SPEAKER_05 58:03

Yeah, we'll figure something out. Thank you, Rob. Thanks for uh thanks for all of you for joining us. Take us out.

SPEAKER_04 58:09

Uh you know what? We'll play this one again.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

And he wants to be the number one enemy of set of accommodism, and I can't think of of who else would be number one, and he might very well have achieved it.