SSPX Fallout and Catholic Infighting w/ Michael Hichborn

One decision lit the fuse across Tradland: SSPX consecrations, a papal command to stop, and the cascading arguments about excommunication, obedience, and whether “resistance” can stay Catholic. With Rob away, we sit down with Michael Hitchbourne of the Lepanto Institute to talk like adults about the hard part nobody wants to face: you can see a real crisis in the Church and still believe the Pope is the Pope, with real authority, real courts, and real consequences.

We dig into canon law basics without pretending it is “just legalism,” because the fallout hits real people. When Vatican documents are written vaguely, Catholics start doubting whether confessions are valid, whether marriages are valid, and whether they can trust any shepherd at all. We also talk strategy: if Rome offers talks, why not force the terms publicly, set an agenda, demand transparency, and make the refusal obvious instead of letting ambiguity win.

From there we zoom out to the bigger story: Vatican II aftershocks, Traditionis Custodes, the Synod on Synodality, and the hard polling data showing collapsing belief in the Real Presence, contraception norms, and moral teaching. We contrast all of that with the call to keep charity alive, resist sedevacantist spirals, and read the moment through the Catechism’s “final trial” lens without losing the plot of salvation. The aftershow turns to rumor culture, smear campaigns, and bizarre “Russian asset” accusations, plus a frank warning about mediums and the occult, and even a practical sidebar on adult kids living at home in today’s economy.

If this conversation helps you think more clearly, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more Catholics can find it. What line do you think cannot be crossed, and why?

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Transcript

Banter And Rob Is Away

SPEAKER_02 1:30

We discovered we discovered last episode that Taffy spends more making those intros than we make on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

He's like paying paying tokens for those.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

I'm I'm looking at this going, when did you guys set up cameras to capture me last Saturday night?

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Oh man. So all right, so for anybody that doesn't know, Rob is off tonight. He is attending his uncle's funeral. Um, he's got some pretty wild battle stories that he had to endure while going there. So I'll I'll wait for him to come back and tell those. But he was texting me relentlessly today, just furious with some of the things that went on at this. Um, you know, when you're dealing with a funeral that you don't have any say in how things go at a you know a Novus Ordo parish, things always get a little dicey. So I'll I'll let Rob share what he's what he wants to share. But I posted a video of them singing on Eagle's wings that Rob sent me today. That's pretty bad.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Um that was that was his uncle's funeral.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah. Oh he was he was so he was just beside he was just like, I just want to get out of here. This is so terrible.

SSPX Consecrations And Papal Authority

SPEAKER_02 2:40

But um, yeah, and we we bailed on doing a show Thursday because um the consecrations had just happened and we just spoke about the SSPX like two shows in a row, and I was like, what are we gonna like? What are we going to just repeat the same things we had just said the past two episodes? So we figured we'd take a step back and let the dust settle a little bit and then maybe regroup this week and then revisit it. But Rob wasn't able to make it tonight, so I figured you would be a good person to have on. Um, and just kind of watching the reaction in Tradland has been interesting because I didn't think this would be as big of a deal as it is. I kind of thought this would just be business as usual, but it seems to be affecting a lot of people and a lot of people taking hard stances on it. What is your what is your takeaway from all this, Mike, Michael?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

From the SSPX stuff. So I'm I I have strong sympathies with the SSPX, very strong sympathies. I I always have. Very clearly. Um but unless and until someone can prove that the Pope is that either the Pope is not the Pope, or that um there is a situation in which the Pope, you know, obviously there are times when you you're not required to obey the Pope on certain matters when it comes to uh, you know, if the Pope orders you to do something sinful, for instance. But when the Pope makes a lawful command and it does not violate faith or morals, I I I can't see how the consecrations are in any way licit and how the excommunications of the bishops, this doesn't extend to the to the rest of the SSPX, but I can't see how the excommunications of the bishops um were not valid, were not licit. Um there can be an argument, may maybe, maybe, mitigating the punishment, but it doesn't take away the licidity or the validity of the excommunications themselves. And on top of that, I will add this when it comes to discussing the uh the canon laws of the church, at the end of the day, there is only one supreme judicial authority in the church, and that is the pope. And when it's the pope who has already judged, I don't know to whom anybody can appeal and say, Well, you know, we'll just wait this out, or we'll appeal to a higher authority. What higher authority? Who are you going to appeal to?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

So um yeah, there was one line in the in the letter that Leo wrote to to Pagliarani before the consecrations when he was asking him not to move forward, where he said, Um, I am begging you with the authority upon which I like what with the authority given to me by Christ himself. Like it was like that line where he he's not just invoking his own human authority, like he's saying, the authority and entrusted to me as the successor of Peter by Christ himself. I implore you not to move forward with this. I might I'm paraphrasing there, I don't know if that's exactly what he said, but it was something along those lines. And I'm like, I I just don't know how how somebody doesn't tremble at the thought of going against a command like that from the Pope.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Right. And I I I'll also say this, and I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, and that's fine. I look, there's plenty of room for us to agree and disagree on certain matters when it comes to this kind of thing, and and I think that we can all still walk away as good friends, uh, knowing that we are trying the best that we can in the time of crisis to save our souls and the souls of those around us. That's that's the law of the church, that's the uh the law of

Transparency Versus Vatican Diplomacy

SPEAKER_00 7:16

life. And if you're not living by that, then you've got a problem. But I think that the SSPX missed and and actually whiffed on a golden opportunity when Tucho said, Hey, don't do these X, don't do these uh consecrations, let's talk. And a lot of people on the side of the SSPX say, well, it would have been a waste of time because they weren't allowed to talk about X, Y, or Z. But the minute Tuccio said, Hey, let's have a conversation, and he said so in public, this was a public invitation. Yeah, the public response should have been great. Here's our agenda for what we want to talk about, and you lay it all out. Now, what the SSPX put out with their declaration of faith, their Credo, and all this kind of stuff, they were beautiful, well said, well written, perfect, no problems there. But why didn't you go ahead and say, and here are the problems that we have? Why didn't you go ahead and say, here's where we disagree, and what needs to be hashed out, and why we aren't moving forward, or why we can't move forward, or why we can't have a conversation, or what whatever it is you think that they won't talk to you about, air it out in public. And this is the difference between I think Americans and Europeans. Europeans play this diplomatic game and they want to sip their tea with their fingers in there in the air, and and they want to be very nice and very congee can congenial and they want to have their their diplomatic relations and the way that they say things, and and that's all very nice. But uh, you know, I'm maybe I'm too American. I would walk in like a cowboy, flip some tables, and say, All right, fine, we're gonna have a conversation, and that conversation is gonna be over some brew, and we're going to have a tape recorder in the room to record the conversation, make sure everything is fully transparent, and uh, here's the agenda, we're gonna talk about these things, and you're going to answer these questions because these are the problems that we have. You know, if that's the way that they had approached it, I guarantee you that Tuccio would have he would have backed down. He would have said, Well, uh, we don't uh we we can't uh have these conversations. Uh uh uh and that's where you push the advantage, but they don't think like that, and it drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

I I tell you, like the the whole thing is very confusing, right? Because you're it's like the Catholic instinct should be you want to be loyal to the Pope. You want like that's just it reminds me of what it must have been like for the people coming out of the council when they introduce the new mass, and you have the like the Catholics who are just going to mass their whole lives, and all of a sudden things start changing, and they're caught between this. Do you follow the Pope? Because the Pope is is, you know, he's the Pope, right? Do you follow the Pope is giving his okay to this stuff? Do we stick with him? Because there's been countless situations throughout history where everybody who goes into schism, or everybody, whether it's the East or whether it's the Protestant Reformation, where everybody that leaves has their reasons and thinks they are justified in their conscience because what they see as this is clearly a violation. It's like the church has always been described as those who are in union with the bishops who are in union with the Pope. Like that is the church. And you know, to see a movement like this, it's like, yeah, there are clear things that they're bringing up that I 100% agree are major issues that need to be dealt with. But I don't know how you deal with those separated from the church. You know, it's I I don't know, I don't think it's an easy answer. I really don't. And I I do understand why people are taking the side of the society, and I do understand why people are taking the side of the I I understand both arguments. I think they're both really good arguments.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

I just don't know how you hash that out and and well, to to play the side of the the SSPX for a moment, they don't see themselves as outside the church. Yeah, they see themselves as still having a conversation while inside the church, even though the Vatican is pretending that they're outside the church. That's that's their approach. And that, you know, okay, fine, there's a little bump in the road, but uh, you know, this is where the Vatican has kind of painted itself into a corner because what they do is they say, Oh, well, you know, nobody is outside the church, we're all going to be saved eventually. Um, it doesn't really matter what you believe, except if you're an SSPXer and then you're going to hell because you're a schismatic and you're a damned schismatic. And that's the way they approach things. And and of course, the SSPX is going to look at this and say, You I can't take you seriously. I understand that. So when it comes to the the the approach, I saw somebody comment earlier. They said, um, you know, when I said they should have had that conversation and just said, okay, here's the agenda and here's the tape recorder. The response was, yeah, but that never would have happened. And my argument is make it not happen. You approach them and you put them in the corner and you make them have to pull back or have to renegade.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

When are these conversations happening? When are we doing it? Let's do them publicly.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So you you force their hand instead of going ahead and walking away and saying, Oh, well, I've already had the conversation in my head, it's just never gonna happen. So we're just gonna walk away. That's dumb. I'm sorry, that's dumb. They should have forced the Vatican's hand because if the Vatican invites you to have a conversation, you say, Great, we're ready to have that conversation. Here's the agenda, and let's make sure that it's fully transparent. We'll have a tape recorder in the room so everybody knows what was discussed, and we'll we'll publish a uh a transcript afterwards. And then the Vatican says, Oh no, we don't want to do it that way. Well, then how would you like to do it? You explain it to us. So you're you're forcing their hand, and you do so every step of the way. You keep pushing to until you get the answers that that are clear and concise and absolute. But if the Vatican says we don't want to have clear answers, well, then you have your answer and you can parade that around and you can say this is the essence of the crisis, but instead they walked away, and I I really take issue with that.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah, I'm hoping you hope that some time goes by and these excommunications are lifted again. I mean, it happened before, but I don't think we're ever going to see another Benedict. I mean, not ever, but you know, I don't see a Benedict on the horizon. Like Benedict is the one who lifted the excommunications and tried to reopen talks with the society and stuff like that. And it's just, I don't know. This is it's kind of not and and and I'm watching the way the the people are reacting to people's positions on this too. Like I'm seeing everybody calling Taylor a grifter, right? They're like, Taylor's a grifter, he was on their side a few years ago, and now he's changing it. I think it's like the opposite of grifting what he's doing. He spent the past 10 years building an audience sympathetic to the society, basically, right? During COVID, he's going to a society chapel, he's building an audience that is very sympathetic to this Unite the Clans idea. And this happens, and he comes out and basically alienates a significant portion of his audience by by taking a strong stance on it, you know. It's not even something I'm willing to do, but I'm for me, it's not about I'm not willing to do it. It's more like I'm I'm not sure, right?

Confessions Marriages And Cast Doubt

SPEAKER_02 14:54

I still don't know. I know that I'm not a member of the SSPX. Like, I not I know I can't be a member of it, but like I don't attend the chapel, right? And I'm I'm just going to be honest, I don't think I would go to a a society priest for confession anymore because of this, right? Because confession requires the like local jurisdiction, it requires the local ordinary to give jurisdiction for that. Now, Francis is the one who it's so uh man.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

So Father Gerald Murray had a uh he he came out and and he was against the uh the uh consecrations, he made it very clear that uh if if they went forward with the consecrations that they would be excommunicated, latte sentencia. And you know, he's he was very adamant about that. But then when the uh the decree of excommunication came out, and everybody said, Oh, well, see, the uh they can't officiate marriages, that's gonna be uh invalid, and and they can't hear confessions because that's now invalid. And he looked at the decree and he said, actually, that's not true. He said, It was the Pope that issued the decree that allows the SSPX to hear confessions and to validly convene marriages. It takes a Pope now to undo that. It's it's not something that can be delegated, and it certainly can't be arrogated to a uh a footnote in a um in a decree of excommunication that has to do with individuals. What's that?

SPEAKER_02 16:26

I hope that's correct, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Like for me, it's the thing. It's like you know, this is the problem, and and I posted this on X. If it weren't for incompetence, the revolutionists in the in the Vatican would have no competency at all. Yeah, and and that's really where it is. Tuccio, he uh in in writing this decree, and in fact, in writing anything that he's written, has proved himself to be a great revolutionist and a lousy theologian and a lousy canon lawyer. The the man couldn't think his way through through a basic theological textbook uh that touches on very basic things. He doesn't want to speak in absolutes, he doesn't want to give any kind of total decree on on what the uh the church says one way or the other. So when it comes to uh when it comes to understanding what his role is, I don't think he even really knows. He he's more interested in writing these these graphic pornographic books for for uh the theologian students.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

That's the thing, like like that's what's so crazy. Like we are we are going on the word of these men who you know are just so despicable, and you and you're like, I just I just keep even okay. So look, I know I know you said that. I know Father Gerald Murray saying that said that. I know Michael uh Matt Matt Gaspers is saying, correct. Since a Pope, since Francis granted the faculties for confession, only Leo can revoke those faculties, and such revocation needs to be explicit. But I I'm just I'm not even it's not even that I believe that they're invalid or anything, it's that they they they did cast doubt. Oh, sure, sure. Like they they they did the the work of casting doubt in people's minds, and the and that's the most horrific thing about this to me is that there are tons of people who just go to the society because it's the the the best option they have to be Catholic, and they're not um they're not they don't they don't they don't have a schismatic mindset or anything like that, they're just going there because that's the best option they have to raise their family in the faith, and they're just doing that. Now, for someone like that, like their the validity of of their confessions are cast into that. I don't I don't know. It's just I I I just hate the whole situation.

Revolutionaries Running The Machinery

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Once again, this is how you have to understand this is how revolutionists work. If you've followed the history of revolution since the French Revolution, what happens is you get a bunch of people who have no experience in governing whatsoever. They don't understand how laws work, they don't understand how how economy works, they don't understand any of it. And they go in, they take over a government, they execute everybody who is already there, you know, whether it's you know, physical execution or they throw them in prison or they exile them or whatever it is. They take over and then they put their buddies in key positions. And they say, okay, Frank, you're gonna take over this position because I need someone who's loyal to me who will go ahead and do what I want them to do. Uh, you don't actually have to know what you're supposed to be doing. Just make sure that all the what whatever the machinery is, make sure all the people are doing the stuff right and and you report to me and you do what I tell you. And as long as Frank is loyal, well, that's great. He's gonna do a good job there in that position. Then you put Joe over here, and then you put Bill over there. And all of those revolutionists, they're running the machinery of the church or the machinery of the government, but they have no idea how the how the government runs. Uh if you've if you understand a mutiny, okay?

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

A mutiny on board a ship, you know what happens? The mutineers take over the ship. They think that they understand how a ship is supposed to be run. But the fact of the matter is the guys that take over only understand the job that they ever had. They don't know what it takes to command a ship, they don't know what it takes to lead or how to navigate because it was the captain that was navigating. Now they've got to figure it out on their own and they don't know where they're supposed to go. So this is this is how revolution works. And it it takes over. Uh everybody cheers and says, hey, we've got we've got control and command now. Now what? And then they don't know what to do, and they turn to whoever the leader of the revolution was. He doesn't actually know how to navigate or or point in in the right direction or or send control signals over to the other ship. He doesn't understand all this. So now he's stuck too, and he has to make it up on as he goes. That's where we are in the church. We had revolutionists take over the church, and now they've put people into key positions that have no idea how the how the church is supposed to run or what the apparatus is supposed to do. And they're they're floundering. Tuccio is floundering, Roach is floundering. Uh, we have this stupid, insipid Dicaster called the the Dicaster for Integral Human Development, which is effectively the Catholic campaign for human development on steroids. And what are they doing? They're out there parading a bunch of communists in the middle of the Vatican and saying, hey, isn't this wonderful? We want these popular movements that are a bunch of commies. They're a bunch of devil worshipping commies, by the way. And uh we're gonna bring them in, and we want the church to be more integrated with them because that's great. Uh except it's not.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

This is this is actually how how I see it, how how it happened. It was like they got a couple of uh especially. During the the revolutionary years in the 60s, they had several men in high positions of power who were clearly gay, who elevated other gay men to positions of power, and they and it became a gay club. Right now, now I think to there was probably a time where somebody who in you know in the Middle Ages, if they were, if they did have same-sex attraction, like the priesthood was probably a good place where they could go and you know not be asked questions of why they're not married or why they don't have a wife or something like that. It was probably you know a place where they could go and live a chaste life, something like that. What happens during the sexual revolution is these men are acting out on it. You hear about it happening in the seminaries, they're watching filth in the seminaries. But once you have men in positions of power who are with this proclivity, they then find out what other men have this proclivity and they elevate them. And then those are the guys who get into and we essentially have a bunch of gays running the church at this point. Like that's that's where we're at now because of that. But this is why I still think the Holy Spirit is protecting the church, because if it was up to these men, they wouldn't have women priests in, they would have gay marriage passed through. I really do think the Holy Spirit is still protecting the church from them crossing these boundaries. It's like even when Francis was in the ultimate revolutionary, all the things he wanted to do, even with um with allowing this the civilly divorced and remarried to receive, he had to put it in some footnote. He couldn't actually make it like he was challenging. You know, it had to be some uh eighth eighth footnote in this paragraph of the of Amoris Letiti. He couldn't actually get it done because I don't think I think I think he'd be struck dead before he could.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Yeah, well, we have here uh one one commenter, Anthony and Michael, please help me with this.

Why Ecumenism Feels One-Sided

SPEAKER_00 24:00

How is the papacy okay with the Anglican Church and not with the SSPX? How is that dynamic different? And and you know what? That's that's essentially the same question I've been asking. Um I don't understand how the how the uh the Vatican can turn around and say, Well, we're we're actually in communion with Protestants. Uh wasn't it it was either Pope Leo or or it was Pope Francis, one of the two. I think it was actually Pope Leo who said um we're already in communion when he was talking to a bunch of Protestants. Well, if that's the case, then what's the purpose of evangelization? What's what what's the point of trying to bring them into the fullness of the church? And if that's the case, then what does excommunication mean at all? So I I I don't get it. I I don't understand this pussyfooting around and and trying to uh uh play patty cake with a bunch of proddies and then say, you know, if you're trying to hold to the teachings of the church as they've been held for 2,000 years, somehow you're out. Uh look. But that's just it.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

It's it's because if you do hold to the traditional teachings of the church, you believe in extra ecclesium nulla salas, and if you believe that, then you can't have the humanism. So they almost have to excommunicate the churches, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

But what what what a logical fallacy. Think about what you just said. Yeah, you don't believe in ex ecclesia nullusalus, uh, or you you believe in ex ecclesia nullusalus, so you believe that those who are outside the church are are now um no longer going to heaven. So that's not with the program that we want, which allows for people who are not in communion with the church to go to heaven. So, therefore, now that you are against our program, you're outside the church and you're going to hell. Yeah, except that you, the church person, believes that that's not the I know it's absurd.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

It's it's a it's a nonsensical position that they take, but but that is how they see it, right? They do see it as the like the trads are the obstacle to unity because it's a false unity, like you the one of the scariest things during the Francis papacy was this idea of communion with these other groups and actually having intercommunion um liturgies with non-Catholics, and it's like that would be mass sacrilege on a level that you would think that God would have to strike us, like like you would just to allow that many people to eat and drink the Lord without like I you would just think that like I mean it's I don't know. You think I mean there's such mass sacrilege going on already, though, because the majority of people that are going to mass don't actually even believe the Catholic faith. It is it has become this social club. It's just look, it it's for guys like us and the people watching the show, like this is the stuff that breaks our heart, right? Like you're looking at especially when you go back and you see for anybody who studied church history and you saw what the church was capable of doing, the church, when it was at at its at its best, was able to transform the pagan world, like to go in, and as the Roman Empire is collapsing, you have Pope Gregory the Great stepping up and taking over the functions of the Roman Empire essentially, and giving grain to the poor and getting the aqueducts running again, and he like the church literally becomes the new Rome, which is how like the papal states develop and stuff like the Papal States developed because the Pope was filling the function of the Roman Emperor in the West, because the Roman Empire moves to the east, the barbarians come in and everything's falling apart in the Western Roman Empire, and the Pope Pope Gregory was like super wealthy, he donates all his all his uh wealth to the church, he gets elected Pope, he's like horrified by it, but then he goes and he steps up and he becomes the Roman Emperor essentially, but without an army, and he just threw acts of charity and he fixes everything. And when the church is at its best, that's what it does. And when the barbarians come in, they convert the barbarians, right? Because they're so like taken back by what what what what they're witnessing, and ever since I mean, I don't know, we've been we because Rob and I have been going through these papal encyclicals from basically after um like basically the 18th and 19th century popes going you know, going from Gregory the 16th, now we're in Leo the 13th, and just seeing these men fighting against liberalism and communism and all the things that the modern church holds up as good, right? Like religious liberty and all this stuff. They're warning us that these are the things that are going to lead to the downfall of your society, they're gonna lead to the downfall of everything. And now the modern church holds those things up as the ultimate good, and it's just it's a contradiction that some people are seeing, and they're just like, This doesn't equate, this isn't, and some people come to the conclusion that this is that the church is defected or something's so broken that you have to go and form these other communities. Like, I understand why people come to that conclusion.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

I can't it's a scandal. What they're doing is a scandal. Um, you know, you can you can commit scandal without losing your authority. That's that's entirely possible. It happened, it's happened over and over and over throughout the history of the church. I mean, for crying out loud, uh our Lord told Peter himself, you are a scandal to me. So even Peter, the very first pope, was a scandal. So don't there's there's nothing there about that. But I there are two comments here I want to address real quick. Drew Black says, Michael, are you a schismatic? Do you believe the Pope has this authority? I am not a schismatic, and and I'm certainly not a uh a sere vacantist. I I believe that the Pope is the Pope, and I believe that he has authority to do what he did. And I I think I'm pretty sure I said that at the very beginning, that he did have the authority to enact excommunications. But there is a proper approach in some respects, like with the um the validity of the marriages and the con the confessions. There's there's a proper approach that has to be conducted in order to make sure that something is clearly taught or clearly decreed. And if he doesn't follow the formula, well, then it's not necessarily uh a decree because he there are some things that he can't simply delegate. He there are some things he has to do himself. Um, so no, I'm not a schismatic, and yes, I do believe the Pope has authority. And I do want to address Fed Calderon, who said, Whoa, whoa, I'm a proddy and I like you, Michael. So yeah, no offense. Well, what when I talk about proddies, I'm talking from the position of the church.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Fed's barely Protestant, don't worry. Fed is barely Protestant. He's been going to Latin mass once a month, he's meeting with a deacon now. He's like, he's so on his way. He's I I give him like a few months before he's but he'll maybe maybe not this coming Easter, but the one after he'll definitely be in the church.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

So I I want to I want to address something that you said though, because you were talking about the the incongruity of what we're seeing in the church, how they're I mean, for crying out loud, we've got traditionus custodus, which stole the traditional Latin Mass from uh quite honestly millions of Catholics around the world. You have um it also took the uh the other traditional rights away from traditional Catholics, and you have this clampdown on uh on what traditional Catholics, faithful Catholics believe and are professing, and they're telling us to shut up. And at the same time, they've got this synod on synodality pushing LGBTQ XYZ, whatever. They've got um that they're pushing women's ordination, they're put and these are in official church documents, official church documents that are written in crayon

Poll Numbers That Signal Collapse

SPEAKER_00 32:00

font, by the way. So, you know, there there's there is definitely an incongruity going on. And to your point about how faithful Catholics or many Catholics that are going up there and receiving communion or do so sacrilegiously, I do I want to go through a few uh numbers that I wrote about in my last newsletter. In 2024, Pew Research conducted a survey of Catholics in six South American countries in the United States asking about support for artificial birth control and women's ordination to the priesthood. And according to the results of the survey of all seven countries, an average of 76% said that the church should permit the use of artificial birth control. Furthermore, the average of all seven countries said that 65% believe that the Catholic Church should allow women to be ordained as priests. That's more than half. Um, you have a situation where the Catholic Campaign for Human Development has distributed an estimated $280 million to Marxist pro-abortion, pro-LGBT, and contraceptive spreading court uh organizations since its founding in 1969. In 2019, a poll conducted by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 68% of U.S. Catholics are, quote, more supportive of transgender rights. And the poll averaged support for rights like uh transgender serving the military, being allowed to use their preferred bathrooms, and serving as elementary school teachers. And then in 2023 to 2024, religion landscape studies uh conducted a poll that showed that 74% of Catholics in the United States believe that homosexuality should be accepted by society, which is up 16 points from the 58% indicated in 2007. And the same study indicates that 70% of Catholics support same-sex marriage, which is up 13 points from uh the numbers indicated in 2014.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

So did you see this? Did you see this? Um, real quick, I want to I just want to say something. Um uh well, two things. Yes, we do have sponsors for this show. I'm gonna get to the sponsors in a second. Uh second, tonight on locals, uh, somebody wrote uh somebody wrote an article about Father Maudsley that we're gonna discuss on locals tonight. That uh I've been thinking about for a couple of days whether I was going to address it or not. Um, but I I mean I've I've really really been thinking about it and what I should do with it. Um, but I I I I think that I think it was calumny what was said about him. So I'm going to address it. And um, so if you guys want to join us on locals tonight, that's gonna be our local show. Um, but this here says Catholics were asked if a fellow Catholic could do or believe the following things and still be a good Catholic. Share who said yes. So if 80% of Catholics said you could be a good Catholic even if you don't go to Mass. 83% of Catholics said you could still be a good Catholic if you're using birth control. Uh 64% of Catholics said you could still be a good Catholic if you're not following the teaching on abortion. 45% said you can still be a Catholic if you reject transubstantiation, and uh 34% you can said you can reject the resurrection and still be a good Catholic. These are insane numbers. Yep. Like you're talking uh and if you go through the I was actually surprised at how um little how how little the numbers have changed, though. It's kind of interesting, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:32

This is from um uh what's the first figure from what year?

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Oh figure out um 87.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

I think those oh yeah, about 87, I think is the years. Okay, so 87 to 2017.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

So it started in 87, it was 72 percent, it went up to 80 percent. Everything went up, which is crazy because I mean you would it's just nuts, but it was you know, it did culminate during the Francis pontificate. So, yeah, it's like it's it's going along with every every single stat you were just talking about.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

So, you know, that's and that's that's really kind of the problem, and and this this points to the SSPX's point, which is there is a crisis, and there's absolutely a crisis, and instead of focusing on the problems that are gonna lead souls to hell, what are they looking at? Well, we need to have more inclusivity with women, we need to give women more positions of authority within the church because we just don't have enough there. Uh what? How is that gonna fix anything for one thing? Second of all, whose soul is that gonna save? Thirdly, uh, how are you gonna focus on this and have nothing to say about those who are out there parading through the streets with hammer and sickle flags saying that we need to have a communist revolution to implement impose socialist ideologies throughout the country? Uh I don't understand how they can look at how they can possibly look in the mirror and take themselves seriously, and how are we supposed to take them seriously when they approach things that way?

SPEAKER_02 37:05

It's

Are Trads Causing Disunity Or Naming It

SPEAKER_02 37:06

it's crazy because um you you look at the trad movement and you part of because I see like a lot of the normy Catholics have a lot of hostility towards Trads, and you see them they think that all we're doing is sowing disunity, and all we're doing is uh criticizing the Pope, and you and people are gonna leave the church because of the things we're saying. But a lot of these people are new Catholics or they're young Catholics, and they've only had an experience of Pope Francis, maybe they converted under Pope Francis, and they don't like they don't it's almost like they they've never really read anything from before the council, so they don't really see how disjointed some of this stuff stuff really is. But what it what it comes down to to me, it's not like it's like it's not the trad sowing this disunity, it's the things that are coming out of the Vatican, like the craziness. Like, are we supposed to not say anything? Are we supposed to just go along with it because the Vatican's doing it? I don't understand what we're supposed to do. I mean, there was clearly a revolution at the second Vatican Council.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Yeah, that's very obvious.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Like, there's a there was a revolution that happened at the second Vatican Council.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Well, and that revolution clearly happened from the very moments the council was it was announced. They had schemas set up for the council that were gorgeous, that would have actually handled a lot of the problems that are taking place now. But instead, the Germans went in and said, we want to get rid of this, so that we can talk about the revolution that we want to have in the church.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Benedict was at the forefront of it. Benedict, when he was cardinal, I mean he was father Rassinger during the council.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

He was at one of the purities, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

And it's like the the thing is that council should have addressed the sexual revolution, that council should have addressed communism, that council should have addressed a number of issues that were facing the because the council should be called to to like to face the challenges that are being faced during that time when it's being called, right? When when you go back to Trent, they're facing the Protestant Reformation. When you go to Vatican I, they're dealing with the state trying to throw the church out of every, you know, you're dealing with all these different uh states are trying to overtake the church's power, right? They're trying to uh uh what's what's the proper wording for it? Like they're trying to uh basically like take like have authority inside the church, like and separate the the temporal from from the spiritual. So the church is addressing that and they're putting a clarity on what the Roman pontiff's role and authority is, so they hammer out infallibility and things like that. Then you come to Vatican II, and there's all these insane challenges that are facing the culture. You have technological revolution happening, you have the sexual revolution happening, you have communist revolutions happening. That's what the church should have addressed during that, and they just dropped the ball completely.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah, no, you're you're absolutely right. You know, it's you pointed out that um one of the problems now is that we've got we've got confusion coming from the Vatican. The Vatican is has basically thrown all sorts of things into chaos, uh compounded or compacted by you know the SSPX coming out and and moving forward with consecrations when they were told not to. So now you've got this this weird dual uh issue going on. And with the decree, you've got tons of Catholics pointing fingers at each other, yelling at each other, just saying the most horrible, terrible things to each other. And I I'll tell you, uh I try not to engage it. I I will say what I think, and I'm I'm happy to just kind of sit and rest on my words. And if somebody wants to have a conversation with me, we can have a conversation. But I'm paying no attention to any of the vitriol and the spit back and forth and the accusations and the shouting and everything else. There's no sense in it.

Charity Grows Cold In Tradland

SPEAKER_00 41:16

And and it reminds me of the letter that Tertullian wrote, where he was, it was his apologia. And and what he said, I want to read to you what he said. He was talking about Christians, Christians in the uh the first century of the church. He said, For they are not taken thence and spent on feasts and drinking bouts and eating houses, but to support and bury people, to support to supply the wants of boys and girls destitute of means and parents, and of old persons confined now to the house, such too as have suffered shipwreck. And if there if there happen to be any in the mines or banished to the islands or shut up in the prisons, for nothing but their fidelity to the cause of God's church, they become the nurslings of their confession. But it is mainly the deeds of a love so noble that lead many to put the a brand upon us. See, they say, how they love one another, for themselves are animated by mutual hatred. They are uh how they are ready to even die for one another, for they themselves will will sooner put to death, and they are angry with us too, because we call each other brethren, for we are for no other reason, as I think, than because among themselves, names of consanguin consanguinity, I don't know, consanguinity are assumed in mere pretense of affection, but we are your brethren, brethren as well, by the law of our common mother nature, though you are hardly men because brothers so unkind. And and so this is difficult language, but what he's saying is that Christians are said of by pagans, say of the Christians, see how they love one another, see how they love each other, see how they treat one another, and they support one another. It was the pagans who recognized that in the Christians, and that was one of the reasons why they converted. And what he's pointing out is that the pagans would say that of us because they don't treat each other well, they don't support one another, they don't encourage one another in in the good. And and here we have in the church not just a rebellion at the top, but now a revolution among ourselves, and we're all fighting, we're all pointing fingers, and and which one of us is actually encouraging somebody else in the in the salvation of their own soul.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

This is this is why I draw the line instead of a contism. Like I want nothing to do with the Setes because I do think the Sede's have a vile spirit amongst them. They're not trying to figure out the the the crisis, they're just if you don't agree with. Them, you're part of the Novosordo sect. Like part of the thing that upset me with the homily that the priest who was consecrated gave where he was like the the modernist church um destroys all sources of grace, it's it it's it's a desert, like some of the things he said were just like so vitriolic, and it's just like I man, like it's hard to say that they're not separating themselves out as the true church in some of the some of those things, you know. So that's a little worrisome. And um, yeah, Matt, I I do want to get to this too. Like, how do we unite the clans at this point? Because like if especially with this, this seems like this dividing line's coming in. Like, I don't know. It's just it's a it's a it's a hard it's a hard one for me. Yeah, but I I draw the line inside of a contism for sure. Like I think something happens to a person when they decide that Leo's not the Pope. That right, I mean, people that people that I was good friends with that I've watched when they come to that conclusion, no longer want to speak to me anymore because I didn't come to that same conclusion. And it's like a recent thing they came to, and then all of a sudden they just want to all they want to do, they just are obsessed with the novus ordo sect and the novus ordo child, and it's like that's where their brain goes. It's not, it's not, I don't see how it's spiritually healthy in any way.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

You know why? It's because they bought into the Hegelian materialist dialectic just like the left did, and that's really the problem. The whole purpose of revolution, and and this is something that's lost on most people, they don't understand Marx and they don't understand revolution. They think revolution is all about a power grab. That's not really the point. The point of revolution is to take your eyes off of Christ and to take your thoughts away from salvation. That's the point of revolution, and with a revolutionary spirit, what happens is you wind up arguing the issues to the exclusion of salvation, and then you lose your your charity. Uh, our Lord said in Matthew 18, uh in those days, charity will grow cold.

Sedevacantism And The Revolutionary Trap

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah. And here we here we are at the point where charity is not just cold, it's frozen. And people don't have charity for one another. They're they're willing to say some of the most terrible things about each other without really thinking about the consequences. Look, you can disagree with somebody and you can think that they're wrong, and that's fine, but you're not gonna do anything to save their soul, one lick, if all you're gonna do is point a finger at them and tell them either they're stupid or hateful or evil or or some other thing. What you need to do is say, you have a soul to be saved, just as I do, and I'm afraid for your soul because you have crossed a line I can't follow. Yeah, and and if you think that I'm going to lose my soul because of the position I've taken, well, then let's have a conversation. Because I think that if if you are really inspired by the zeal for the salvation of my soul, then then we should have that conversation. You should be talking to me, not as if I'm a child and not with put-downs, but with an encouragement that says, I am afraid for your soul, and I love you for who you are. I love you for the soul that God desires you to be.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

That's that's the look what I found over here. Look at how this has fixed my life, because I found a girl of great price, right? Like I found that that's why, like, when I when I came to uh when I started attending the traditional liturgy and I start start studying traditional Catholicism, like it transformed my my home life, it transformed my spiritual life, it transformed everything. So that was like this thing that I wanted to give to others, right? I'm I just see something dark in people that come to the conclusion that the church basically affected, you know?

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Because they can be they can become so blinded with anger that they become self-righteous to the point of saying, I'm right and you're wrong, and your wrong idea is damnable, and I'm not gonna touch it because I will then be infected with your damnable idea. And and that's that's not the right way to think. If if you think in terms of love, if you think in terms of salvation, first of all, coming to the conclusion of set of accantism isn't gonna save a single person's soul. No, it's not now. You can say this ideology is right or wrong, this particular uh moral thinking is right or wrong, and in that case, yes, we should have a conversation about those things because morality does indeed set a path for a soul to go to heaven or hell, and right theology actually can set the path for for which direction you're gonna go also. But when it comes to the governance of the church, having a discussion about who's in charge and and and you know, that's not first of all, it's not our job, it's not our it's not our position to think that we have the right disposition the the right to say, Well, I don't think that this person's the Pope anymore, and therefore I don't have to follow him. Well, instead of saying we don't have to follow him, you should be saying there are certain lines that the Pope himself can't even cross, and then make a determined based on that instead of saying, Well, he's just not the Pope anymore, and make it so easy to just walk away.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Is it possible to believe Leo and the Pope? Leo is the Pope, and the DDF is wrong to pronounce the excommunications, just like King Saul was wrong to hunt down David, but was still king, and David still obeyed David still obeyed Saul, right? David was still his loyal servant. Like uh 1 Peter 2, 18 servants be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also the froward. For this is thankworthy if for conscience towards God a man endures so sorrows, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it if committing sin and being buffeted for it you endure, but if doing well you suffer patiently, this is thankworthy before God. Like you have to obey unjust rulers too, and let you know, in all things but sin.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Yeah, and and let's let's make this point and take the analogy further. King Saul was rejected by God as king. And what happened? He went uh Samuel went up to him and said, You've been rejected as uh as king. And Saul got on his knees and he begged him for forgiveness, and he's he said, Please don't reject me. And he reached out and he grabbed the uh the mantle uh that Saul wore, or that Samuel wore, and it tore. It tore, signifying the break. Just like the the uh tapestry in the temple tore. So it's it's symbolic of his losing his kingship. He was no longer king at that point, and he begged Samuel to go down and make sacrifice with him with the people so that the people wouldn't know that he'd been rejected by God as king. So Samuel paused for a moment and he said, Okay, fine, I'll go down with you and I'll make sacrifice, and I won't tell anybody that you've been rejected as king. So Saul was no longer king and he had the appearance of the kingship. In fact, Samuel helped maintain the ruse that he was still king, but then he went out and he found Daniel and or David rather, and he anointed David, and so therefore, David was the rightful king after that point. But it didn't come until after Saul had been rejected by God as king, and then even there, David maintained the ruse. He he called him the king. He knew he was anointed, he knew he was the king, but he wasn't going to stand up and go against Saul. He allowed Saul to remain in the position that he he had usurped. So if David's not going to rise up, who are we to? What position do we have? And in fact, there were others that in in David's camp who said, Hey, we should go out and kill him. And David said, If you do that, I will kill you.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

This is a good question. Uh, do you think this could be the first schism among the next? If the Sonatal Church changes magisterial teachings, like something like James Martin stuff, then what? Look at the direction the church is going. See, I still think they will push to do that as far as they can, but I still think the Holy Spirit protects the church and the church can't. Like, I still think the church can't defect. And I also think we are dealing, like, I think this is the mystery of iniquity. I

Catechism 675 And False Shepherds

SPEAKER_02 52:48

think we are living through the catechism paragraph 675. Like, I really think that's where we are right now. And people uh hang on, let me actually pull it up. Like I want to pull this up. Like, this is this is what where I think we are right now. Um, before Christ's second coming, the church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the mystery of iniquity in the form of a religious deception, offering man an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and is and of his Messiah come in the flesh. The Antichrist deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the in the intrinsically perverse political form of a secular messianism. So that's going to be eventually the Antichrist is going to come and there's going to be a political thing. But this deception that's going to come, it's going to be this religious deception, a pseudo-Messianism presenting. I mean, if you I bring it up all the time, but Ticonius talks about the mystery of iniquity is that the mystery of evil grows within the church, and that even the leaders of the church will disguise themselves as Christ, and they will say things that like like this whole thing with immigration and caring for the poor. And it sounds, it's sound, it's like it's like my sheep know my voice, right? Like, because the a shepherd, the reason Jesus talks about that is because shepherds in those days would go and disguise their voices because the sheep actually did know their shepherd's voice. So while the sheep were sleeping and the shepherd would fall asleep, somebody would come in and disguise their voice as that shepherd and try and lure his sheep out. That's what you're going to have, is false shepherds mimicking something that sounds like pseudo-messianism trying to lure us away and away from tradition, away from what we know to be true. But that doesn't mean that they don't have the rightful authority to pronounce judgment in things like an excommunication or things like that. It's just we have to flee the mystery of iniquity. So, I mean, it's it's you know, it's I think that's where we are.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

I I want to read to you this came from a flyer that the AUSCP, the Heretical Association of U.S.

Building A New Church On Top

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Catholic Priests, put out. Um, I collected this from one of their annual assemblies a number of years ago. And what it says is very, very telling. This is this this is a direct quote. This is what they said. Quote, theologian Herman Poppmeyer views our Vatican II era as, quote, an unfinished building site, end quote, similar to the building of a new St. Peter's Basilica during the 1500s. Construction began with the laying of a foundation and erection of pillars and walls around the old basilica of Constantine. That prepared the way for roof and dome to complete the new outer structure. That took decades. Meanwhile, the old church stayed in place. Conditioning the progress of the new, once the external structure was complete, the old basilica was removed. Similarly, Poppmeyer sees Vatican II as designing a new church to develop around the existing one. The council's 16 documents laid a new foundation. The four constitutions on liturgy, church, revelation, and church in the modern world are the new pillars. Consolidating and finishing a renewed church inside and out continues. Like St. Peter's and the works of previous councils, it is a work of centuries. Much remains to be done. We are all part of the renewal team. This divine project, building up the people of God for our era, is the challenge of our time. AUSCP's mission is to help us all respond to that challenge by working together as one.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

And building a structure on top of the structure.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Building a false church on top. They're literally putting out saying they want to build the ape of the church. Yep. They just said they are.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

And if you read Anne Catherine Emmerich, she talks about how the they're building the revolutionists were trying to build a church around the existing structure of the church, and they were trying to pull down the old walls. Uh, I mean, this is this is prophecy playing itself out right before our eyes. So what we have to realize is the revolutionists have have made their plans known to us. We can watch them as they're working, we can see who they are because they're putting forth ideas that are completely inimical to actually the actual teachings of the Catholic Church. So, yes, we have to resist those who are trying to destroy things. There, we have to resist those who are trying to institute some kind of new church. I mean, do you realize the song that they put together back in those days uh for the call to action con conference? The title of the song was Sing a New Church. They wanted to sing a new church into being. And and the one of the frames is let us bring the gifts that differ and in splendid varying ways, sing a new church into being, one in faith and love and praise. This is their anthem. They want to create a new church, they want to make a new church in their own image and likeness. So, you know, yes, there is a revolution and it's going on, but that revolution is going on in the belly of the church, it's going on in the bark of Peter. And if you jump out, well, now you're jumping into the world and you're leaving the bark. You can't leave the bark, you have to fight to take it back.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

Cyril of Jerusalem said this uh, we who are of the church seek the church's sign. The savior says, and then many will fall away and will betray one another and will hate one another in Matthew 24. And uh, Cyril says, If you should hear of bishops in conflict with bishops, clergy against clergy, and flock against flock, even unto blood, do not be troubled. It has been prophesied. Fix your attention not on the events themselves, but on the fact that they have been foretold. That is almost word for word what our lady of Akita said. Yep. Bishop against bishop and clergy against clergy, and Cyril of Jerusalem is prophesying that about the end of the world, and our lady of Akita comes and tells them you're about to walk embark on a time, you're gonna see a deluge greater than the time of the flood, right? And you're gonna see bishop against bishop and and and clergy against clergy.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

So my my advice, and and I kind of want to rest on this. My advice to everybody is to follow the same instructions that our Lord gave to the apostles the night of the passion.

Stay Awake Watch Pray And Resist

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Stay awake and watch and pray. That was it. Three instructions stay awake, watch, and pray. So our Lord was the one who was enduring the passion, and the the apostles they were agitated because our Lord was agitated, because he was concerned, because he was upset, they saw his bloody sweat, and they they didn't know what to make of it. They were they were you know, they didn't understand what was going on. And of course, then the uh the soldiers appeared, and Peter started a kerfuffle and and decided to get into a fight with them. But the fact of the matter is there were three instructions stay awake, watch, and pray. And we have to pay attention to what's going on. We have to make sure that our children aren't being indoctrinated in this false doctrine that's being erected around us, and and we know exactly what that false doctrine is. Anything pushing LGBT ideologies, pushing women's ordination, pushing, I mean, avoid the communion in the hand, avoid the Eucharistic, the extreme, you know, the extraordinary Eucharistic ministers at church, avoid all of those innovations that have popped up into the church. Try and instruct your children to receive reverently, to be present in the mass, and to understand that their prayers as they're participating in the mass mentally is a full participation. They don't have to be part of the you know glad handing that goes on in the middle of mass. And and if you can avoid it, avoid those stupid and sipid prayers that came from the 60s and 70s. My gosh, those are sick. So there are things that we can do, and and there are ways that we should be avoiding the stuff that's going on in the church, the revolution in the church, without having to be too concerned and too worried about the revolution itself, because the structure of the church is a little bit outside of our grasp. We don't have the ability to effect change there. So if you get agitated by this stuff, of course you're gonna get mad at your neighbor and you're gonna get mad at the people around you. Don't do that, don't fall for it. It's a devil's trick. So stay loyal, stay faithful to all of the core teachings of the church. Really get to know them, understand them, read the church fathers to your children, they'll get it, they'll understand. It's not hard. So stay there. And and I I think that paying too much attention to the fighting and the the back and forth and and getting agitated is it's only gonna draw you further down into that trap as well. And and I I say avoid it, avoid Babylon.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

Yeah, I think that's a good way to to to wrap this up and rest on that. I want to throw uh shout out to our

Sponsors And The Locals Aftershow

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

sponsors before we go. And also on locals tonight, we're gonna discuss this Father Maudsley article. I'm going to defend my friend Father Maudsley against this. I think I think it's calumny and I think it's a pretty I think it's a pretty gross accusation being thrown at him.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

So anyone else can see it in the comments. That's not actually Father James Martin SJ, is it? It can't be.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

Oh no, no, no. Um, yeah, so if you guys can go to uh nicknack.com. Uh use code AB25% for 25% off your first purchase, code AB10 for 10% off subsequent purchases. Knickknack is their knicknack lozenges. For those of you who like pouches or zin or anything like that, switch over to Knickknacks. They're awesome. Uh Knickknacks is a nicotine product, it is an addictive substance. It is not a smoking cessation device, but it certainly does help with quitting smoking. So I don't care if we're allowed to say that I say it. Uh, also go to Black Monk Rosaries, get 10% off an amazing Black Monk Rosary by going to blackmonkrosaries.com. Use code AvoidingBabylon and get 10% off your Black Monk Rosary. Black Monk Rosaries are serious, man. They weigh like 12 pounds each. They're very good for weaponry, uh, things like that. So if you ever gotta hurt someone, uh, is there any super chats I missed? Let me just double check and see. Uh, somebody said behold the fruits of Vatican II. Uh, this one I think we missed. Uh, no, they find out in blackmail them when we were talking about the gay priests elevating gay priests. Um, and then obedience to Pope in terms of immigration in Europe. I know many on the right are beginning to see the church as the problem. I think I think the the church's um stance on immigration is one of the most dangerous things it is playing with right now. I just do. It's like yeah, they're they're allowing by knick knack, get you a wife. Bobby, Bobby's uh marrying my sister, Michael. Bobby Bobby, I met in Italy uh when I went to Italy on pilgrimage, and uh we uh we we hit it up so well, he's basically become part of my family. He will be my brother-in-law by year's end, it looks like. So that's the other thing. We're gonna be planning Bobby's uh bachelor party. I wonder if we could do something where uh we throw it up to the public if anybody wants to come. I don't know what we're doing yet. We'll figure it out. It won't be anything raunchy, don't worry. But uh all right, so we're gonna go over to the other side, we're gonna discuss the Father Mosey thing. Also, there's uh something about uh a woman coming out saying that her 28-year-old son still lives at home with her, and I'm interested to see your parenting strategy on something like that because of the of the way the economy is now, what your thoughts are on allowing your children to live in in your home to a stage that late. So maybe we'll talk about that too. Um, all right, guys, I'm not Rob, so I'm just gonna start killing feeds.

Maudsley Spy Claims And Calumny

SPEAKER_02 1:05:58

Uh, and if you guys are not on locals you're not gonna see the remainder of this show but that is uh where we discuss the things we don't like to discuss on youtube we will see you guys next time youtube is removed gonna get rid of my x feed all right one or two more rob's x feed run the outro music first yeah rob does that i'm not really i'm afraid i'll end the stream on accident i don't like to do that all right so we're just on locals let me just bring my um people are asking for the locals link oh it's too late for that i already left uh all right let's see i want to just bring my locals feed up so i can see people's uh comments all right let's see yeah so this this this guy um it's kind of sad because uh the guy who wrote the article um i was planning on having him on the show uh his name's Augustine Virgil I've seen several interviews with him and I really did like some of the stuff he was doing and then he came out and he did this and I'm just like what the heck is this guy doing and uh this guy his name's Augustin Virgil I'm gonna bring the article up let me just see if I could pull it up um I wanna say skip share screen I'll say share sorry guys I'm a little slower than Rob all right so I want to find like some of the pertinent stuff and he goes I mean he tells this whole story but basically he uh he goes through okay uh and so to explain the tale he tells this whole tale the young man his father James Maudsley a former priest in the priestly fraternity of St. Peter who was expelled for leaving his assignment he was not expelled uh of right I I think he just left um he left his assignment without permission the uh the I I don't actually know exactly the the details of of him not uh what what is I don't know the details of what's going on with the fraternity um so uh he all right so he goes through this whole thing he basically says that Father Maudsley has ties to uh British intelligence and he was a British intelligence agency and now he's a double agent working for Russia and his whole goal is to uh uh to sow this unity in the church and um uh let's see um he he so father mosley did time in in in a prison in Burma uh you know he did time in prison in Burma in Burma then he came out he joins uh he becomes a priest uh a traditional priest covet hits and he can't follow the the mandates of covid and he you know he he he winds up he winds up leaving and the way the way I met Father Maudsley was um the first interview I did with him was on his book Crucifixion to creation and I it was one of the most amazing interviews I'd ever done and it had nothing to so like this this guy's whole point is that Father Maudsley is constantly talking about the Jewish question and he's going to end up setting it up so that Catholics are persecuted for anti-Semitism like they're gonna label us anti-Semites and then we're going to be persecuted for being anti-Semites and it's like look my first conversation with Father Mosley had nothing to do with the Jewish question. It was on his book Crucifixion to creation he did a deep dive into into the old testament that was one it was one of the best conversations I'd ever had um then he goes from there into if you believe Moses and it it he kind of starts delving into the topic of like the like the insanity that they're they're trying to convince us that Jews Christians and Muslims worship the same God and it's like it's such an we don't they don't know and if you and if you read Jesus in John chapter 8 like he literally says your father is the devil right so father mausley's studying all this stuff and he comes to he comes upon this teaching this forgotten teaching it the same way many of us have like I would have been I would I you could have labeled me a neocon if you go back 15 years. Like I would have I was listening to Rush Limbaugh and I was saying Israel is our greatest ally and I was like I was going along with all the same things that because that was the propaganda we were fed at that time and then you start coming up and and seeing the things that are happening around us and you start thinking deeper about these questions and then you start realizing that the church fathers spoke explicitly about this stuff and from the beginning chapters of Genesis it's speaking of the enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent are the descendants of Cain right because Jesus is identifying the Pharisees as the descendant he's like your father is a murderer from the beginning so he's identifying the Pharisees as the descendants of Cain and Cain is the descendant of the serpent right so he's he's you he's calling them you brood of vipers why is he calling you brood of he's using that language to show that the Pharisees are the descendants of the serpent right and in Genesis it says there will be enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman this is the story that plays out and this story is playing out before our eyes right now. So yes Father Mosley is going back through this narrative the Holocaust narrative that we were all fed and he's looking looking at it from a different lens because he's seeing what is happening in front of our eyes and and how the world like worldwide Jewelry is everywhere and how the church fathers talked about how this would happen and the idea that he was a British Intel agent and then he's a now he's a Russian intel agent and he's he's a double agent now as if MI6 wouldn't just disappear I'm sorry it's first off all of the stuff that he's saying he's saying without evidence it's all just I I think Augustin Virgil the guy who wrote this his his position is basically because Father Mawsley talks about the Jewish question and doesn't talk about Russia that this is a plot of Russia to get Catholics to only talk about the Jewish question and then we're going to be persecuted by the Jews for being anti-Semites and it's like I don't it's such a stretch like he didn't come to it through right reason which he tries to claim in the article it it it just seems like calumny to me. Like he's cherry picking data points from Father Maudley's life to try and make it appear as though the this is the case where I think from what I know of Father Maudley and the many conversations I've had with him both in front of the camera and behind the scenes like if the idea that he's a Russian agent and like he's on avoiding Babylon like like guys he couldn't even get on like Tim Pool's show like Tim Pool was literally being funded by Russia. Like he's going on avoiding Babylon that's the big get come on guys like yeah it's it's kind of absurd and I can't tell you how many times I asked Father Maudsley to come on and he declined he's like no I want to step away from the I don't want to be in public right now I'm doing some deep study the only time he he he has agreed to come on is when he has written a book and he wants to discuss the stuff that he's learned. It's like oh I I I look at this stuff that I've learned every single thing he discusses has biblical basis for it. Every single thing is either a deep dive into the liturgy how the liturgy is linked to scripture and how this is our inheritance none of it is like a Russian science like it's just I don't know like I I really wish this guy because he he has a lot of good stuff when talking about um influencers and guys like Nick Fuentes and Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and it's like like a lot of these guys are pushing like uh like Alexander Dugan stuff and things like that. And it's like a lot of this stuff is um uh uh what what is what is the fake grass what do they call the astroturf like a lot of this is astroturf right and he has a lot of good points on this stuff like you're being given parts of the truth by a lot of these influencers but you never get the full truth because you're not getting the full Catholic truth so you're getting little tidbits of truth and it's like you think you're getting you think you're getting somewhere but you don't actually get the full truth of something because you're being led in a in a wrong direction to look the wrong way again because you're giving some truth but not the full truth and then he kind of launched this over Father Maudsley as if Father Maudsley's a bad actor because Father Maudsley talks about changes in the liturgy and it's like I don't I my my my my what I've come to understand uh apart completely apart from Father Maudsley that's what's interesting like completely apart from Father Maudsley I've gotten some insights from Father Maudsley but my all of my insights on this topic have been by studying scripture and understanding typology and seeing how the synagogue of Satan is going to influence it's going to be very similar to the way our Lord was betrayed right so we as the body of Christ will have to be given up to the religious authorities and we will be persecuted by the synagogue the way Christ was persecuted by the synagogue. We will be delivered up to the religious authorities so that means that the synagogue is going to collude with our religious authorities just like it was during like use covet as an example right covet was by far a pharma pharmacy like the the pharmacology pharmacology is like majority Jewish you know what I mean right like it it really is it's so covid comes out you know what the root of the root word for pharmacology is uh it has to do with um um it's a Greek word yeah it's a Greek word pharmacia which means sorcery sorcery yeah yeah it's like magic right so and you saw the church you saw francis colluding with the synagogue to get us to take the like that was a type of what's going to happen in the end you're going to see our religious leaders colluding with the synagogue to get us to take the mark of the peace like that's just that's what I see is going to happen. Isn't it interesting that vipers when they bite you they inject their venom inject I look I I'm I'm telling you I what I saw during COVID was a like a a uh like a a dry run of what's going to come right and the way that it happened with the with with the church colluding with the body of the it's like dude that was the Ticonius thesis it's the mystery of iniquity is the evil the body of the devil growing inside the body of Christ and that body of the devil inside because it's those who it's not just those who say they are Jews and are not it's those who say they are Catholics and are not right like a guy like Joe Biden says he is Catholic but is not right there's going to be those who say they are Catholics but are not colluding with those who say they are Jews and are not and they will collude to persecute the body of Christ I do think there's an element to where we will be called to come out of this institution. Because just like the just like the Jews who convert under Christ right like after Christ ascends the Jews who become Christians at some point Jesus says come out of her my beloved so you don't partake of her blasphemies like no longer participate in the temple no longer participate with the Pharisees come out of her there's going to be something in the end where God calls us out of this insanity that we're all seeing because this stuff is going to get to a point where there are there is just too much blasphemy and God will call those who he loves who endure this pseudo messianism and get through it like we will be called out of it and that is that is how it works.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

If I were to make a prediction which I'm not want to do I don't like making predictions but if I were to try and figure out what it is that's going to come out of the Vatican um that will be that Ticonius moment to to put a word to it to to give it a phrase I don't know what else to call it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:42

Yeah I don't know either I just I just kind of call it that because I'd have never heard anybody else put it the way he does and when you read Ticonius's commentary on the apocalypse it literally describes what we're seeing right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:52

So if if I were to try and see around the corner and figure out exactly what it's going to be I would say what we're going to see is some sort of joint uh form of worship that involves the Jews the Muslims and the Christians and it will be done it will be done in the form of a mass and it will be an invalid mass it will be a blasphemous mass but it'll be done as some sort of reconciliation with those other two I don't you can't call it not real religions but it's it's going to be our religious leaders taking a carnal reading of the scriptures the way the Jews take a carnal reading of the scriptures right so the Jews have a carnal reading of the scriptures in that they think that's why they call it Zionism right they they see the promises given to David at Zion as read Psalm 2 right the in Psalm 2 David's saying today I have begotten you you are my son I will call you upon my hill in Zion and you will rule the nations with an iron rod and you will crush them and we know that is Christ like that is Christ and that is fulfilled in the Catholic church but the Jews are waiting for their messiah to rule the nations with an iron rod. They're reading it carnally now Catholics who read the scriptures carnally see there's going to be a unification of the brothers at the end of the story right so there's going to be unification of Joseph and his brothers there's going to be a unification of Jacob and Esau there's going to be this unification of the brothers they're not going to do it spiritually where they convert and become Catholic they want to do it carnally so they're going to try to force this unification of the brothers between because even the Muslims are going to be brothers of you know Ishmael is is is also a right so Isaac and Ishmael and the descendants of Ishmael are the Muslims so they're going to force this carnal reading of the scriptures and forcing this unification not through you not through conversion but through some false thing and that is it's gonna be the abomination of desolation yeah I agree I agree and and uh it it it it will be the same kind of thing that happened with the golden calf while Moses was on on Mount Sinai Moses represented christ Aaron represented the the pope so Moses goes up to Mount Sinai to get the law to bring it down from the mountain to give it to not the people but to give it to Aaron and of course what Aaron does the people rise up and they say build us a golden calf and Aaron says okay and they start worshiping this golden calf uh did Aaron lose his authority at that moment no um so it's not gonna be one of the it'll be a form of apostasy but it won't be a um it it'll have the form of the church the formula of the church the imagery of the church and it but it will be an act of apostasy and that kind of thing is what we have to be watchful for what we have to be paying attention to to say okay there's there's a Colombo episode my wife and I like to quote a lot it it actually was the last one of the regular 70s series before it became it got reconstituted in the late 80s but there's a uh a villain who is a heavy drinker and he's got these bottles of scotch and he takes this this ring with a heavy diamond on the inside of it and he would score the the bottle and he would say this far and no farther so you drink down to that far and no but then he would empty the bottle but you know at some point we have to pay attention to what's going on in the Vatican when they do things like this when they have these interfaith ecumenical prayer sessions whatever they are you have to draw that line and say this far and no farther and that's that I think is where we are and and you know you don't leave the church you don't rebel against the church you don't declare that the pope's not the pope blah blah blah but you do say there is a line that cannot be crossed and we can't go to where they want to lead us yeah well real quick just to bring it back to Father Maudsley what I what I do want to say is I like I think that this uh this guy who wrote this thing I think he needs to take the article down I think he needs to like issue a retraction and an apology because I think the things he said in it are just they're it's calumny like the it's not you know I it's just to make those kinds of accusations um against somebody to claim that he is some sort of of Russian agent or operative or participating in Russian disinformation I mean that's it's such a it's not just a stretch it's a leap of logic uh huge huge making assumptions upon its own I mean that's a massive assumption uh if you can't show any kind of receipt to that that he has had any contact with Russia whatsoever yeah then you have nothing other than inference and inference is not proof uh if you were to take this before a court of law and say we accuse Father Maudsley of being a a Russian agent because of whatever evidence you put together in that article you'd be laughed out of the courtroom yeah they would look at that and say you've got nothing you've got no evidence except inference and that's not evidence. Yeah no look there's also somebody else accusing all of us of being part of some Russian plot right so I I showed something to Michael earlier it's got the entire trad world as falling for a Russian psyop you know and it's like look I do think that the first off look we do know like our lady talks about the errors of Russia spreading we do know that I think there's uh there's there's there might be some I I forget if it's a church father talks about uh like salvation will come from the east again so maybe there's some role that Russia will play in being like the chastisement of the West because the West has abandoned God like I'm I'm not against even this idea that Russia has some role to play or Russia is like the third Rome or something. I don't I don't I don't know I'm open to that because our lady warned about that I just don't like throwing accusations at someone who I consider a friend I like I consider Father Mosey but like I really debated if I was even going to bring this up because I didn't want to bring attention to it. Like I haven't mentioned it on any of my social media or anything I didn't want to bring attention to it but like it was just eating me up inside to like not defend a man I consider a friend and a man who like has has done nothing but like be charitable to me. And If anything, like the the things that this guy lists, like him going to prison in Burma and then him uh taking a stand and leaving during COVID to the priesthood, like he he was acting like these were acts of sedition. No, I think that Father Maudsley is I like he he's a man of high ideal. And when he believes something, he believes it. And he he's willing to do anything for that belief because he truly believes it. He was willing to go to prison for what he believed, he was willing to lay down his his uh active priesthood, like he was willing to lay down his faculties for what he believed, he was willing to lay down all public social media for what he thought what he's learning about the Jews. He's like the the man believes something and he acts on it and he believes it with his whole heart. Now, I can only tell you the conversations behind the scenes on the number of times he has declined to come on with me because he's like he'd rather live a private life. He does he has no desire to be on social media talking about this, like he really does just want to live a private life. He did not even feel like he he felt in this situation with this article, he's like, I'm not even going to respond to these allegations. They're they're atrocious, and I don't, you know, I'm just gonna turn the other cheek. I'm not gonna say anything publicly. So I I felt like I had to say something on it. Um, and like I said, like I I wanted to have this guy on the show because I think he's got a lot of good ideas and stuff, and I just I just think it was wrong that he put this article out without like consulting anybody ahead of time, and right, you know, he I just I don't understand why he did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:41

No, I I can't I can't answer that either. Uh there's there's really no way of indicating why he would say such a thing or why he would decide to go after Father Maudsley, who's as as you pointed out, not even doing anything actively publicly now, anyway. He's living a quiet private life, uh

Russian Psyop Charts And Smear Culture

SPEAKER_00 1:30:00

writing books and and conducting research and praying and reflecting on things going on in the church. And you know, to say that he's a some sort of a Soviet operative or a Russian operative, he's got to be one of the lousiest Russian operatives on the planet if if he's gonna go into private life and and not go into the public life when when that's what disinformation's all about. So I mean it's kind of a stupid position to hold.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:25

Well, I mean, I mean, I'm going to show you guys this because like they're a cute look, look up here. You'll see Anthony Abadi, right? Where was Lapanto, Michael? Over to the left, over to the left.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:40

You had you were by Taylor where Taylor Marshall is, we're just there. It is right just below, down there you are, Laponto, right there, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:49

It's like the all the these people are accusing all of the traditional Catholics, even even someone like Matt Fratt of all being part of a network of of Russians. It's like people could throw these things that Murray Rundes is in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:03

So you look, I mean, Father Chris Olar is in there. I mean, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:08

Are you crazy? It's a bishop sambo. Like, there's no connection even between any of these people.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:14

It's so but you know what's really funny. Normally, uh, this this isn't even a network map. All it is is like uh you've got vegano, and I don't know who else is in the middle there. So vegano's on the left. I don't know who the other guy is. They're they're right there at the middle, or maybe that's Alexander Dugan. Um, so they have those two, and then they have this explosive series of dots and names without any explanation as to what that means, how that how this affects anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:48

But what I'm saying is this guy Augustin Virgil believes this. So, what this says is this detailed research explains Moscow, the third Rome, and demonstrates how Trad Sede influencers, including clergy, are nudging flocks toward this anti-Christ end goal. Some may be co-opted, but most are willful servants of an anti-Catholic regime. It's like you I'll I I have what I've learned is that people will throw accusations of grifting, people will throw at they'll throw any accusation in the world out without anything to substantiate what they're saying. When all I like, all I do on this show is come on and say what I think. Like, I just like I'm doing this. Everybody that watches the show is doing the same thing I am. We're watching this crap unfold before us, and we're just hashing it out and talking about it because we're all confused by the same stuff. And you guys watch this show because you kind of you you either uh you you identify with my opinion or Michael's opinion or Rob's opinion. You like the people that Rob and I have on the show because we're all trying to figure this stuff out together. It's not because we're grifters and we want to make money and we're it's we're all going through the same crap. Some of us may come to different opinions, doesn't mean there has to be hostility between us or anything, but the idea that we're Russian assets, like it's just it, it's just I don't know, it's just people are just so nuts, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:14

So everybody knows, Anthony, that you claim to have a day job. Yes, I do what we know is that you're going off to your secret Russian meetings during the day, so that's working for Boston at the evening. That's what's really going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:31

Everybody's jealous they're not on the graph. Cigar mode wants to be on the graph. How can I get on the ground?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:36

Yeah, so you didn't actually click through to the big 242-page article or however long it is. 270. Should I click on it?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:45

You want to check it out?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:46

So there's a 272-page article that is linked to this whole thing. And I have here, I went down to the little portion that mentions Michael Hitchbourne Lepanto Institute. He has two paragraphs of vitriol, followed by nothing but a bunch of disjointed links and screenshots of things that I've said or things that people have been, you know, interviews we've done or things like that. But he says, Hitchbourne, the founder and president of the Lepanto Institute, occupies a distinct and aggressive niche within the traditional Catholic media network by operating as an ecclesiastical whistleblower who treats the modern church hierarchy as an enemy-occupied territory. Viewing Rome through a hyper-scrupulous pre-Vatican II theological lens, Hitchbourne has spent over a decade producing dense investigative dossiers designed to expose alleged infiltration by Marxists, globalists, and modernist heretics within Catholic charitable and hospital net hospital networks. So he says alleged, but the fact of the matter is I have all of the receipts, all of them. I have things that these organizations have said themselves about these. Oh, you're in the article. So just do a page search for Hitchbourne and you'll find that section. So control F and then Hitchbourne.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:12

Control, hang on. Dude, I'm so bad at this.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:18

Well, I want to see if he uh he actually has a very brief mention of you.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:26

Yeah, I want to find yeah, do that. Find me. What does he say?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:30

Uh they have the something, so he's got this whole section down towards the very bottom. Uh, what is this section? Oh my gosh, this is long. So the following is a list of lesser Eurasian influencers and those who platform them. Most are quote unquote Catholic, but some non-Catholics are included because of their high performance in the ecosystem. And then he has this uh chart with the name on the left and then Eurasian links and narratives on the right. So Anthony Abate, avoiding Babylon Media, close links with Patrick Coffin, regularly performs Father Mod platforms, Father Modsley, Marshall, Gaspers, Stein, with Eurasianist Jay Dyer, how the deep state steers the church, and then he provides a link to that, and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:26

That's amazing. Yeah, man. Whoever did this did some did some hard work, man. Catholic Esquires on here, Carrie Prashaan Bowler, Calvin Robinson, Anthony Abani. There we are. Okay, close links with Patrick Coffin. I've been smoking with Patrick in a year and a half.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:48

That's funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:53

This is supremely ridiculous. I have never seen such sloppy work in my life. All he did was throw together a whole bunch of links without any connection, without any, there's no connective tissue here at all. It's just look at what they said. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:09

Yeah, but so okay, so I don't see how this is so my my point is that like this this is the stuff that these guys are like looking at, and it's now look, I'm not even opposed to the idea that like Russia has um a vested interest in seeing the Catholic Church uh like fragmented up like this. Like I'm sure they do, because there's nothing more dangerous to political power than a united Catholic body, right? Like the I I know it's a it's not the greatest example because we know communism survived it, but when John Paul II even had the solidarity movement to take down communism, like the the Berlin Wall fell because of solidarity, it wasn't a shot fire, there was no war, it was just Catholics getting together and they would boycott and things like that. Like, and and it had a real effect. When you even go down to the Cristaros War down in Mexico, when the Catholics got together and boycott boycotted, it it enraged the government because when Catholics are united on something, we have a real power without violence. So I don't think it's crazy to think that Russia has a vested interest and seeing the Trads trying to nitpick each other and stuff, but we're not the origin of the of the disunity. It is the Vatican, like if the if anything is infiltrated by Russia, I would say it's the Vatican. Like the Vatican is infiltrated by communists, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:44

Well, let's take it a step further and try and rem remember there are two things that we have to keep in mind when it comes

Russia Schism Errors And Conversion Hope

SPEAKER_00 1:39:52

to Russia. Our lady said that Russia would spread her errors, yeah. And what is the first error of Russia?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:58

Communism.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:00

Oh, what divorce or something?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:02

It was it was schism.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:04

Schism.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:06

The first error of Russia was to separate itself from the papacy. That was the first error. The second, the second thing we have to bear in mind is that our lady requested not just the the consecration of Russia, but she also requested that we pray the rosary daily for the conversion of Russia. Why is she so intent on Russia converting? Not it's not just because she wanted to avert the communist takeover that was eventually going to come, it's because Russia, I think, is going to play a particular role in the re-Christianization of the world, and she wants the conversion of Russia for that purpose.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:49

So, you know, if you're going to sit there and say, well, Russia is the enemy, and they're always going to be the enemy, and Russia is this, you know, they're a damned race or whatever it is, well, you're the one with the problem. Because we are supposed to be looking for the salvation of souls, and we're supposed to be following the precepts that our lady gave us. She requested us to pray the rosary daily for the conversion of Russia. So I I do look forward, I hope someday to see the conversion of Russia. I want to see Russia brought into the fullness of the faith. And when that happens, let's rejoice as Russia fights to kick out all of the encroaching communism that is that has taken over the West, the Muslims and everything else that's taken over the West. We should be looking forward to that and praying for that and expecting that. But instead, these people want to chalk all that up to Russia to Russian propaganda, and that's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:48

Part of what this guy said was that uh, like what were guys like Fuentes and Maudsley, uh, because he's grouping Maudsley in with Fuentes, Candace Owens, and Tucker Carlson, right? And I think his big thing is that everybody's talking about the JQ, and he's like like the Jewish question. And his main thing is that all these people who are talking about the Jewish stuff, what is going to end up being set up is that we're going to be labeled anti-Semitic as Catholics, and that's going to lead to our persecution.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:17

You know what? That's I I want to stop you right there because I I'm so sick and tired of people being afraid of standing up for the for what the church teaches because of how the world's going to treat us.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:28

That's stupid.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:29

Well, well, you know, I I would say, even like, if you're afraid of being called an anti-Semite, like, what are you going to do when they want you to stomp on a picture of Christ? Like, if you can't, if you're afraid to tell the truth, right. And and sometimes the truth may sound anti-Semitic to the world, but it's not anti-Semitism because like I don't I don't hate anybody. I'm just we're literally just talking about like how the story's going to play out and what's going to happen. I don't advertise, like, I don't advocate for hatred of anybody at all, so I don't even know what anti-Semitism is, but I'm not afraid to be called an anti-Semite for Judaism as a religion, by definition, is an anti-Christ religion. Yes, has to unlike any other, there's no other religion that is definitionally anti-Christ because they reject their messiah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:17

Yep. Yep. It is by definition an antichrist religion. So, you know, how can anybody say that saying that is hateful when it's simply a declaration of the truth, it's a recognition of something for what it is. Even uh, even the Jews will tell you that they are anti-Christ because they reject Christ, they don't believe that Christ is the Messiah, and they don't want to believe that Christ is the Messiah. Even they will tell you that if you really were to get down to the nuts and bolts of what they believe. So don't fall for this stupid argument that that you know you're all anti-Semites simply because you're opposed to Judaism as a religion. I'm opposed to all false religions. Yeah, you know, it's like they say, like, I'm not a bigot, I hate everybody equally.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:08

There's not, but there's something different, like even yes, Islam is antichrist because they deny Jesus as the Son, but it's not the same thing, like like Christ came to the Jews, right? Like He He came to the Jews and they rejected him. And there's something, there's something that and their story is not finished, like they're in some mysterious way, like they still play a significant part of salvation history because they are going to play a role in the eschaton. They like they they still play a role in the eschaton, and a significant role.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:47

Yeah, there look, we also know that there's going to be a general conversion of the Jews to Christianity at the end of the world. So I look forward to that too. You know, how can we be hateful if our desire is the salvation of souls, including the Jews, especially the Jews? I mean, why did we remove the prayers for the Jews in the Mass and then say that oh, you're praying for the Jews, therefore you're anti-Semitic. What?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:14

But we clearly remove them at because of Jewish influence, is the point, right? Like we clearly remove them because Jews didn't want us saying them anymore because they didn't like it, dude. The the the right now the Dead Sea Scrolls are on display at the museum, the museum of the Bible, and they're on loan from Israel, and Israel only put them on loan to them under the condition that they remove the phrase BC.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:40

Oh, yeah, I saw that.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:41

They have to use uh uh uh C uh BCE and C E because they don't even want them being referred to as before Christ because they really do have this hatred of even his name, right? So it's just look, this is uh I'm I don't know. I it really does suck because I would have loved to have had that guy on to discuss some of the stuff that he's talking about because I do think like he's he's got some good insights on things, and I just I don't know, man. I think he should I think he should issue a retraction, he should take the article down, and yeah, I think he has to look, I I think a lot of us can make a lot of leaps and bounds in our mind because we see something and we think like we figured something out. I do it myself. Like sometimes I'll I'll see something and I'm like I'm like, oh man, like I'll connect the dots in my head and I'm like, oh, this is definitely what's happening. And it's like, all right, maybe I was stretching that one a little bit, you know. Maybe maybe that's not exact. I mean, we did it when we were talking about um Pope Leo getting elected, right? We were both giving like our theories, and you were like, I think this might happen. It was like, well, that didn't happen, you know. You you kind of have like your idea of what could happen, and it doesn't always happen. Like, you don't right, you don't understand prophecy until it happens. So you just don't. You see you know it in hindsight and you see everything lines up, but none of us, that's why prophecy is always vague, so that you can't actually figure out exactly what's going to happen, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:13

So um, all right. I think uh oh oh I do want to do this real quick before we go. So this uh this this woman lets her son live in the home until he's 28, but I'll see.

Adult Kids At Home And Real Economics

SPEAKER_02 1:47:37

Um because I'm I'm debating like what what approach I'm going to take with my with my kids, right? And let's say okay, I'm gonna share this. I did pretty good with the sharing tonight, I gotta tell you. I usually think of this stuff. All right, tell me if you can hear this.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:00

Okay, lives with us, and I still consider us empty nesters because he lives his own life.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:07

Do you hear it?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:08

Okay, I just want to make sure. So, all right, so her 28-year-old son lives with her. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:14

So our 28-year-old son lives with us, and I still consider us empty nesters because he lives his own life, he has a full job, full-time job. He, you know, pays bills, he actually pays us rent um to live here. He doesn't pay much, but we do have him pay a little something because it's just a good responsible thing for him to do. But I see a lot of like posts on here, like if people saying their parents, once they turned 18, just kicked him out and were like, you can't move live here anymore. Like, not giving their kid kid any chance to like move back in, get back on their feet, or anything like that. And we could just never do that. I I that's not how we are. Number one, my 28-year-old he is bipolar.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:59

He's it's so I don't really care about all that stuff. I just wanted to get to that basically, just to get like the idea behind it. Now, I'll say this growing up, um, my parents never told me I had to get out. Um, but my my parents charged me rent. I had to pay $100 a week to for rent and give my mom $30 a week to do my laundry. So I was paying like $560 a month to live at my parents' house when I was 18, which got me to want to leave my parents' house. I was like, I'm paying almost 600 bucks a month to live home. And I had eight siblings. So I had I was in my parents' basement and I had like five kids under the age of seven in my house when I I mean your house is like that. And all I heard on the freaking ceiling was from the kids waking up and you know running around the house, and it just drove me nuts. So I was like, I'm just gonna go get my own apartment because back then it was like uh maybe 2001. And rent was like I got an apartment for like 900 bucks a month. So for another 300 bucks, I was able to get my own apartment. So it they kind of like set me up to have the motivation to want to get out, but I was I would have been allowed to stay there. Do you have any kind of uh plan for your kids? Are you gonna charge rent? Like, what do you what are you planning on doing with your kids?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:18

Well, so the the role of the parent with with your child, you're you're supposed to raise your child, give them as many tools as possible to first of all to be to live a good Christian life. That's that's the first thing. The second thing is to try and make sure that they can live their life on their own, uh, as their own autonomous individual. You know, you want them to be a good worker, good citizen, um, a good husband or wife, whatever it is. And you you have to be able to give them that launching platform so that they can work, so that they can uh pay the bills and have a house and basically go through all those steps that of what it means to be a functional living adult in in the modern world. Sometimes there are circumstances that make it difficult for an individual to leave the house. And if it's something that's beyond um, you know, it's it's beyond the uh the scope of their ability to live on their own simply because they don't have the funds to uh to live in a house right now, but they're working towards getting a job that will allow them to do that, or they're trying to save up. But my wife and I, we actually had to move our oldest. My eldest is 23. He just got married last month. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:39

Umgratulations.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:41

So but our youngest is three. So there's a 20-year spread between our our youngest and our oldest. And you know, when my wife had our fourth child, um her kidney exploded, and uh she yeah, it was it was serious, and we didn't have insurance, so we wound up with some very serious hospital bills that we couldn't pay. And because of that, we uh we wound up moving in with my parents for two years, and it was cramped, it was difficult. You know, we lived in the basement. Um, our kids were stuffed into a couple of rooms, and we were in a you know, one of our old bed, one of my old bedrooms uh down in the basement. And yeah, it was it was cramped and it was difficult. And of course, trying to get two families that hadn't lived together to live together is is even more difficult. But it was a necessity, it was a financial necessity. And over two years we paid off our bills, and then we were able to actually put to to raise the funds to put a down payment on a house, and that's what we did. Yeah, uh, so there are circumstances that would necessitate a parent to allow a child to live in the house for a period, but there should always be that goal towards having the child live on their own to uh to live as they ought to by themselves. As long as that goal is in mind and the parents understand, hey, you you have things you need to pay for, you need to do X, Y, or Z. You know, we're not gonna pay for you and be just kind of a place for you to play video games down in the basement until you're 35. Yeah, but at the same time, we're not going to make it impossible for you to save because we think that you do need to save so that you can have that launching platform into the next step of life. So it's a balance. And you have that's I'm not gonna say that it's it's um there's no catch-all, yeah. There's there's no blueprint.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:51

I plan I plan on um charging my kids all rent when they hit 21, but I'm gonna save the money that I charge them and give it back to them as a wedding gift, right? So I'm gonna keep it. That's a good idea, and I'm gonna give it, I'm gonna give them all whatever money that they, you know, that I that I collect, I'll give them give it back to them as a wedding gift. My brother Frankie has three kids there, um, and they were renting, and they're doing the same exact thing you just explained. They just moved back in with my my brother's wife's parents in the basement. He wants to do it for two years to save money to buy a house because he's like it, you know, he he just it's so insane to buy a house nowadays that like, how the heck does anybody afford it? So he moved into his in-laws' house, he's down in the basement, and he's going through that same struggle. He's like, Oh my goodness, like we they gotta, they don't they have they don't have a bathroom in the basement, they have they have a nice den and two bedrooms down there, but there's no bathroom and there's no kitchen, so they basically have to share the bathroom and kitchen with the in-laws, and it's challenging, you know. But right, yeah, yeah. I'm hoping like my son right now is uh he just finished a welding program and he's working full-time, like doing welding, and he's working at a restaurant. So this kid's working uh four days a week doing like welding, and then he's working three nights a week waiting tables. The kid is killing himself, and he's saving a ton of money right now, and he's living home. Like, I'm not, I'm not I haven't as long as he's working and he's like you said, he's not playing video games, you know, five days. Like he's not a bum. If he's working, like I he could stay here as long as he wants, as long as he's saving money toward his future, I'm totally fine with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:36

Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with that. I think that's actually a good plan.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:40

Yeah. Um,

Occult Warnings And Final Wrap

SPEAKER_02 1:55:42

I had a I had a a crazy weekend where I was with a couple who had an insane fight. Ooh. And it was one of the most unbelievable, um, one most unbelievably awkward situations. Like, first of all, this couple came, they brought their four kids plus the daughter's boyfriend. They came and they spent two nights at my house. Or they spent one, they spent Friday night at my house, and then Saturday we were supposed to go out on the boat and then watch the fireworks from the water, and they had this huge blow-up, and they were like demanded to go. I was just like, I'm like, never again am I doing this, man. It was just so freaking awkward. I I I do not I do not like being around stuff like that. I don't know, I don't. It was just such a stupid, silly argument, too. I was ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:36

Yeah, like those Christians see how they love each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:40

Yeah, well, that well, actually, that's why I wanted to talk about it because this this man, I gotta be careful, but this couple are baptized Catholic, they're not practicing, but the wife is very involved with mediums, and when I tell you, it felt like a demonic presence came over. Yeah, and because it was just so dark and like out of nowhere, and there was no reasoning with this person. It was like I was like, this is and the first thing that my wife said when we got home was she goes, I'm telling you, it felt like a darkness there. And my my wife, before her conversion, like when when uh she was younger, she had gone to like a a girl's night out and they had a medium there, and she this was like 20 years ago, and she told me after that incident, like she did not feel right again until her first confession. Like from the time that happened, she and like she never knew what where to place it, but after her first confession, she said she felt like this darkness come off of her, and I mean it was so so interesting. We just had this conversation like two days ago because of this whole thing, and my wife was like reflecting upon like this whole incident with her when she was younger, and like it was like they thought it was like a silly thing. It's like, oh well, talk to me, and like her grandfather said something, and it was like she just said she like had this darkness that she felt like was following her until her until she had her first confession. It was really, really I don't know, man. Uh the people people that play around with that stuff, they really have no idea the darkness they're playing with, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:58:21

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:24

But uh, all right, we are uh we're at two hours. But Michael, thank you so much for filling in tonight, man. You are one of my favorite people to go. You're so easy to talk to. I always know there's never gonna be a moment of silence or anything. It's like you you're definitely a fan favorite. We have uh we haven't had we went like me and Rob tried doing a 7 p.m. start instead of an 8 p.m. start, and it tanked our viewership.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:47

Like oh wow, tanked it.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:49

Like it just I don't know that if when we start at 8, it's just so much better for our show. And we were getting like 3,000 views per episode for a good month, and then you came on that one episode. It was the first episode that like hit eight, nine thousand again. And I was like, Oh, nice, gotta get like but we put it back to eight bump is real, everything's balancing out again. But everybody loves when you come on, so we'll have you uh we'll have you back on again. If you ever have anything to promote, you know to reach out.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:21

All right. Oh, do you have anything to promote? Not currently. Uh, we're going through an IRS audit, so I'm how's that going? Uh things are actually better. Um, I'll I'll explain more in a couple of weeks, but yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:34

All right, yeah. Pray for pray for Lepanto, guys. They're going through a rectal exam right now. They're getting a colonoscopy at Lepanto Institute.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:43

You know, at this point, I think I would prefer the colonoscopy.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:47

Gosh, man, I can't imagine. So, all right, guys, we will see you guys on Thursday. I don't know what we're talking about yet, but we'll we'll check yet next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:55

Alrighty.