Why Women Defend Murderous Moms and Immodest Girlfriends (Full LOCALS Show)

A mother kills her three children and a huge slice of the internet responds with language that sounds like an accident. We grapple with the Lindsay Clancy trial, postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis, and the uncomfortable question underneath it all: how do we acknowledge mental health factors and medical negligence without turning them into a moral get out of jail free card?

We walk through the way psychiatric meds and stacked prescriptions can spiral, especially when providers aren’t coordinating care. We also react to the public narrative games people play, from avoiding the word “murder” to pushing theories that the husband did it, even when the case details don’t support that. Along the way, we compare how culture treats male perpetrators versus female perpetrators, and why that double standard shows up everywhere from mainstream commentary to activist circles.

Then we pivot to the viral dating debate that exploded after a simple claim: ask a woman to dress more modestly and watch the reaction. We break down why boundaries in courtship trigger accusations of control, how “fraternal correction” fits into Catholic life, and why men and women both need standards that apply consistently. The back half gets personal and practical: fatherhood, boomer era conflict avoidance, rebuilding male friendship, and why mental prayer and the rosary are not optional if we actually want interior conversion instead of mechanical religion.

If you’re tired of hot takes and want a serious, candid conversation about accountability, mental health, Catholic dating, and leading a family in a collapsing culture, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who will disagree, and leave a review with the question you want us to tackle next.

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Transcript

The Cold Open Goes Sideways

SPEAKER_07 1:21

Yo. Oh my gosh, dude.

SPEAKER_08 1:23

Yo, Taffy, are you kidding me? That was the most uncomfortable intro I've ever sat through. Rob, you previewed that? Yeah. Oh my gosh. That was so uncomfortable to say that. Good evening, gentlemen. Please let this end soon. This is so you guys have a good night.

SPEAKER_07 1:49

I'm out of here now, boys.

SPEAKER_08 1:50

Oh my gosh. Oh my goodness, Taffy, that was the most offensive thing you've ever put on our channel. Oh my gosh, bro. All right. Well, okay, for context, for context, for those of you who don't know, uh Chris Benoit killed his entire family. Oh C D I didn't even work. So okay, so but the reason I think Taffy, I think Taffy was going for something. Irony the irony is yeah, like a a lot of the craziness around this whole story is that when Chris did do that, nobody jumped. There was no sympathy for him. It was no sympathy for Chris, right? Nobody was like, Oh, but he had a psychotic break, and oh, what about the meds he was on? What about this? And what about that? But it's it is interesting how um because look, this it oh man. Well, should I do introductions first before we jump into this? If they want to be involved with this, Phil everybody obviously knows Joshua Josh McCarles and Mike Panty. Like, how have you guys been?

SPEAKER_07 2:52

I'm uh I was better like three minutes ago.

SPEAKER_08 2:57

I didn't know that. Rob, I can't believe Rob let that one slow. Are you serious? That was so offensive.

SPEAKER_07 3:06

Yo, and that that's saying a lot, man. Everybody in the comments, like, dude, what this what's going on with Taffy? That's saying a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:13

Man, that was a bit much. I mean, Josh Patrols has quite the reputation to hold, and Mike, Mike is

Lindsay Clancy Case And The Double Standard

SPEAKER_08 3:20

Mike's trying to recover from his C mask days, he's trying to patch things back. There's no getting away from it, dude. I'm perma blackballed, dude. So it is what it is. Oh my goodness. Um, so all right, so the the the the the context is that um uh it's been interesting to watch because I'll I'll I'll I'll tell you, I like I have kept an eye on this case, and the thing is uh it's not about giving sympathy to her, but it there is a kind of uh insanity to what these doctors did in that they just kept prescribing this woman medication after medication. Every time they gave her a new medication, she seemed to spiral and get worse and worse.

SPEAKER_09 3:59

And it's it's like none of them she went to different uh medical networks, so that none of them knew what hell she was taking.

SPEAKER_08 4:08

Yeah, so like they didn't, but yeah, so they weren't in contact with each other and stuff. But she clearly had like some kind of psych med harm that happened. But the the point of pointing out those two scenarios is that when it happened with Chris Benoit, all of us, including myself, were just like what an evil POS. But when it happens to this girl and you're hearing all this stuff, like the immediate reaction that I'm seeing from the majority of women and a lot of people is that they're looking to exonerate her from the guilt.

SPEAKER_09 4:39

You should probably mention her name just so Lindsay Clancy.

SPEAKER_08 4:43

So, yeah, if anybody doesn't uh into the story without explaining what it is. So we're talking about Lindsay uh Lindsay Clancy, right? Is that her name? Lindsay Lindsay Clancy, who's on trial right now for taking the lives of her three children. Now she was uh the story that I mean, she's got some lawyer, man. I'll tell you, but the story is basically that she she got postpartum depression after her last child. Eight months after the baby, she went into psychosis. She's saying she went into a postpartum psychosis, sent the husband, like very methodically, sent her husband, ordered food and said to her husband, go to the go to the pharmacy, get medicine, and then go pick up the food that I ordered. And in that half an hour time that he was out of the house, she strangled her three children. And it's a horrific story, like beyond horrifying. But the reaction from people online is also pretty insane, especially coming from women, because what what you're seeing is one group of women trying to say that it wasn't even her, the husband did the whole thing, and another group of women just empathizing with the woman and saying any one of us could have snapped and killed our children. And I find that horrifying.

SPEAKER_07 5:56

You know, there it both can be true at the same time. You can acknowledge that these psychiatric men's meds are a portal to the demonic. I mean, I years ago, I was on you know, antidepressants and all this stuff, and there was some serious uh darkness to what came to my mind during that time. Praise be to God, I got out of it. I mean, this that stack that she was on, I mean, that's that's that's horrific. But at the same time, too, it you can say both things. Yes, that's obviously negligence on the doctor's part, and uh she's evil and murderous and you know deserves the death penalty. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

SPEAKER_08 6:31

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. Like, I I've been I've been watching Matt Walsh kind of go off on this topic, and I'm like, he's a hundred percent right. Like that there's this these children deserve justice. This woman needs like I don't even know what this trial is about. Is it really about is she going to spend the rest of her life in prison or the rest of her life in a psych ward? Or is like there's an actual chance this woman could get off because you could get a hung jury and they could or a mistrial or something, get a mistrial, and then the then they have to decide if they want to prosecute this a different way or do they want to retry her? Or she could with the the jury that's up there, man. You never know. They could say she wasn't actually like responsible for what happened.

SPEAKER_09 7:14

Has anyone asked John Deloney what he thinks about this?

SPEAKER_07 7:16

I was just gonna say if he was involved, this would have never happened.

SPEAKER_08 7:19

Um, yeah, so it's it's just uh it it's kind of a a topic that I'm

The Modesty Request That Lit Up X

SPEAKER_08 7:25

off starting starting to discuss tonight, but because we were going to get you guys on to kind of discuss the whole mayhem that Josh started last week, which um I thought what Josh wrote was kind of innocent.

SPEAKER_09 7:36

That was like three weeks ago, actually.

SPEAKER_08 7:38

Yeah, it was it was a couple weeks ago at this point. It was it it was kind of innocent what you said. It was just like this, you know, just like hey, a good way to judge a character.

SPEAKER_07 7:52

Is it just Anthony? Yeah, Anthony cut up for you guys too.

SPEAKER_06 7:55

Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:58

So uh Josh, you basically said uh a good way to judge uh uh a future partner is to ask her to dress more modestly and to observe her reaction. Is that correct? Is that what you said?

SPEAKER_06 8:08

Yeah, I said if if she's if she's um basically if she's not being modest to request, I think I specifically used that word or ask, you know, ask her to be more modest, request her to be more modest, and if she doesn't, she um is rejecting Christ's authority, so she'd reject your authority as a husband. Move on. Something like that.

SPEAKER_07 8:27

And I think at the core at the at the core of that, there's a there's a big these women seem to think that when you're you're courting, there's no kind of playing ball. You you've got to kind of test each other, man. As a guy, you're kind of showing that you can protect and provide, and a woman's gotta show that she's docile and submissive and humble and all these things. Um, I mean, I I I I I wish I could say that I was surprised by the reaction. I mean, listen, okay. So uh Rob, you have daughters? You do, right? I have one, yeah. You have one, Anthony. I know you got daughters. Wouldn't you expect them if they were dating a guy to show wifely qualities? Is that not something you would instill into?

SPEAKER_09 9:06

That's like the whole point of courting.

SPEAKER_07 9:11

So what's the thing?

SPEAKER_06 9:12

You know what's even richer though? You know what's even richer though is and I'm recovering from some throat stuff, so I'll I'm gonna probably stay a bit more minimal tonight. But um what's even more shocking to me is well, one, it's it was great advice I've heard from multiple priests. So I I thought it was the most common sense, banal thing ever, maybe get a few likes, a few hundred at most. Got like over a million views, thousands and thousands of posts for like almost a whole week on X. It was pretty shocking. Um, but the thing is, is um, I I completely agree with everything you just said, Mike, but you can even abstract it further. Like public immodesty is a sin. And as a Catholic, all of us can be held accountable in a charity, you know, being charitable and whatever. We can be held accountable for our public sins. It's called fraternal correction. So you don't need it, doesn't even need to be a test of docility, which I'm fine with. It's a I mean, this is stuff that if a if a brother of mine was uh sinning publicly, um, I mean, all of us have had these conversations behind the scenes. We'll call each other up, be like, bro, I think you should reconsider something you said or something you did or whatever. And it's like, and if you don't submit, all of us, you know, assuming it's like just a clear case of right and wrong, all of us would see that as a problem. We'd be like, What is wrong with my friend?

SPEAKER_09 10:27

Josh, it's it's fraternal correction because women never need correction.

SPEAKER_06 10:32

Well, that's why I sent you that video clip uh with Jack Nicholson, Rob, because I I think it's probably one of the best um summaries of uh of what we're dealing with.

SPEAKER_08 10:44

But we're going we're going to go through we're going to go through a few clips just because I want to give people an idea of what we're talking about with with the way people are reacting to this. But Josh, with your tweet, I don't think it was the modesty thing that struck. I think it was the idea that you would dare tell a woman anything. Like, if you see the way people reacted to it, it wasn't I'm telling you what it was way deeper. It was like, how dare you think that you're gonna date someone and and you dude, you weren't even like I'm telling this woman, you were like, I'm going to request this.

SPEAKER_06 11:20

And so and I've I've had this experience, I've had this experience with a Catholic woman. I'll never say her name to respect her dignity and privacy, but and she's a great woman in many ways. But we had this discussion, and I said, I think um the pictures you post on your Instagram are way too revealing, they're very tight, and they show a lot, they show too much. Um, if that's not something that um you're willing to take down, um, I I don't think our relationship will get much further because I I really find things like that, you know, unacceptable. Um, and she disagreed, and so it was a it made things clear, so it made things easy. So, like the parting of ways was actually quite easy at that point because I I prefer clarity to agreement and things like that. And you know, as far as the um, you know, I I did want to mention Mike and I talk about this privately, and I think Mike talks about it publicly as well. I think it's important to say, you know, we need to be, you know, we do a weekly Great Roser campaign for eternal Christendom. I want to do one for women, I want to do one for the guys too, but we need to be, you know, I said at one point to Melody Lyons, you know, I'm praying for you. And I didn't mean that in a patronizing way. I literally put the phone down. I prayed three Hail Mary's for her. I think it's really important. Like we don't, we cannot use prayer in a patronizing way, but I do think praying and fasting for people, there's clearly a diabolical disorientation of some kind among a lot of these women. Um, I've got a number of things to say on this, but I'd say maybe we can expand on it as we go on, you know, get somebody else to talk. But but in short, one thing I love about the Church Fathers so much, you know, as you all know, I dive into that a lot, is they talk about sin and righteousness as being a man, being a rational creature, acting according to reason, or being a beast. And women have rational souls as well. So women are accountable to acting reasonable as well. Um, you know, there's prudence, we adjust our expectations per all sorts of circumstances. But when women are having these unhinged reactions, like honestly, it doesn't bother me. I'm not perturbed by what irrational people think. There were some women who had some decent responses. Leah Labresco was uh one of them. I disagreed with her, but I understood her reaction. But the amount of things I was called a creeper, a dictator, a controller, manipulator, whatever. And it's just like, you know, I think men need to stop. Part of recognizing a woman's actual dignity is expecting her to be reasonable. Um, that doesn't mean to the same degree as a man necessarily. Um, just being honest, because women have hormonal issues that we don't, and I think there's just literally a physical, biological reality there. I'm I know it sounds offensive to people, whatever. I don't care.

SPEAKER_07 13:51

No, dude, it's true, man.

SPEAKER_06 13:52

It's true. But but the but the point is they are accountable to reason just as much as we are. Like the whole reason, like, I mean, Christ is the logos, the reason who has taken flesh, and he gives us his grace in the sacraments and prayer through the intercession of the saints, whatever it may be. He gives us his grace so that, you know, in original sin, our mind stopped being tethered to God, our passion stopped being submitted to our mind, and our bodies stopped being submitted to our soul. Every lower thing was no longer submitted to a higher thing. So when we get Jesus' grace, we not only get forgiveness, but we get a new principle of order in our souls that is from him, it's his divine life. And it ultimately will result in our bodies being submitted to our souls once more with our new bodies uh in the resurrection, our lower passions being submitted to our mind and our mind being once more submitted to God. That's why Paul talks about being transformed by the renewing of your mind. Women are as this is as good news for women as for men. And so if men want women to behave differently and not, you know, get away with these sorts of tantrums, then you know, gently, charitably, um, we don't put up with it anymore. It's really that simple. And we need to expect it of ourselves as well.

SPEAKER_08 15:01

You know, one of the most interesting things was all of the married women chiming in on uh on that, saying my husband would never dare tell me not not to wear something. Like I was shocked by that. Um did I say it? Did I say that right now?

SPEAKER_06 15:15

No, I I said poor husband.

SPEAKER_08 15:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I can't, I there's been so many times where I have told my wife, no, I'm not comfortable with that. But the reverse is true as well, where my wife will tell me, I don't want you to wear that, you know. It's like well, yeah. Yeah, like that I would think that's like just something you do in a marriage is look out for each other when something doesn't look good on you. You just you just say no, don't wear that, you know. But it was just like this idea that how dare a man ever have an input, like like you're not allowed to have a standard for the woman you're with in any capacity whatsoever. It was just it was it was it was baffling to me the response to that. I was actually really happy that you didn't take it down because not that I have not that I've ever seen you back down in a situation like that, but you did catch uh an onslaught of criticism from it. I was happy to see you left it up.

SPEAKER_06 16:07

Like I said, I'm not concerned with what irrational people think. This is the golden cow of many women, especially in the social media age. And men too, by the way. Whatever I see, uh buddy of mine and our like Mike and I have talked about this. Like when a guy's out there trying to be all tight on his chest and his workout clothes and like look, take all the his Instagram and pictures, I think that's immodest too, and he should stop. I think that's vain and and effeminate. But most women, their idol, well, I don't want to say most, many women, uh, I think definitely the majority or more, their idol is using their body in whatever way uh they can in order to attract men or attention from men. Now, on the other side, this doesn't make their uh their uh uh behavior excusable. We men, I I'll take credit, I was addicted to pornography for many years. Guess what? I contributed to women feeling the need they need to do that, and I'm ashamed of it. And we need to own that. And that's why, you know, I did a post a few months or a month or so prior where I said if you're a man and you know you're looking to get married uh and you're still struggling with masturbation and pornography, you haven't been free of that for six months. I don't think you should date, and I don't think you have any right to complain about women. Um and and most men seem to get it, but there are quite a few who push back, acting as if they're sort of entitled to these things. It's just pathetic. It's utterly pathetic.

SPEAKER_08 17:23

I'll tell you the same thing. I tell my daughters, like, if don't ever date a guy who takes selfies because he's too in love with himself to ever love you, you know. Like it's just the it's just the like if a guy's taking selfies, like it's gross behavior, you know.

SPEAKER_06 17:36

So I'll just say one final thing to close out my my my segment here is there are tons and tons of things. I have zero problem with a Catholic woman checking a Catholic man on. Zero. If the if he's not attending Sunday mass, if he's not getting, if he does have any porn or anything like that in his life saying this needs to stop, um if he's immodest on social media, if he is weird or um lustful or or anything of that sort inappropriate in his interactions with other women, there's if he if he doesn't have a good job and if he's not working toward getting a good job for providing, there's a million and one things Catholic women are a thousand percent in their right and their duty, their obligation to test a man they're they're dating to or courting, whatever you guys want to call it, um, to become a husband. Um, zero problem. But this is why you know I jokingly said, but I actually the older I get, the more I mean it. I really don't believe a lot of women when they say what they what they want, because they'll say they want equality. Well, it's like fine, equality. I'm fine with a Catholic woman testing a Catholic man on a million different things. So you'll be you'll be fine with a Catholic man testing you on a lot of things too, won't you? That's a quality, of course. But of course, it usually now some good women they're fine with that. But it doesn't go that way for a lot of women, they don't actually want what they say they want because if they did, they wouldn't have had a problem with what I it's a giant, it's a giant shit test, dude.

SPEAKER_07 18:54

Not to refer to the red pill, but like I said, a lot of their diagnosis is very much correct. I mean, not to use foul language, that that's what it is. It really is a fitness test. We've men have been so used to being in the longhouse that a woman comes out and says these things, she may not even believe it. Maybe her emotions drive her to that. Um, and we on our side, we perpetuate this dysphoria. How do we perpetuate the dysphoria by engaging with them as if we're engaging with a man, which is also a problem that we've got to keep ourselves accountable to, to your point, is you know, I don't engage, really haven't ever engaged except for one time, which I took to confession, by the way, with Melody Lyons back in March. You know, I'll say that publicly. I said one thing to her, and then I immediately prayed for her, to your point, which is incredibly important. But let's not talk to them as if they're men. Yeah. What what I just don't engage with women online. Pray for them, you know, present the argument, you know, charitably, let the Holy Spirit bridge the gap. We can't force these conversions, but we can display the fruits of it online. This is why I made a video um uh several weeks ago. Being base can really send you to hell. I mean, the the sin of uh of scandal and immodest speech. I mean, lest we fall into judgment because the same very same hypocrisy that we're calling out. I think it's I think it's it's appropriate to audit yourself before engaging in these types of conversations. I think what you said is stellar.

SPEAKER_08 20:12

Um, I would like to get into some of the reactions uh to this stuff because what I want I want to kind of talk about like how social media really is breaking, like I the the the gender problem that we're having right now, where I mean I just I just I just feel like modern women are so broken at this point, like I don't even know, not all of them, obviously, but the way this whole Lindsay Clancy thing's being handled, the way the reactions were to Josh's tweet. I just don't know. Like, I don't want this to just be like a like I told my wife not to watch this episode episode tonight. I'm like, it's gonna be rough. We're just gonna be talking about women tonight. But it's the the way that they're reacting to some of this stuff, it just scares me. And I don't know if it's because of social media, I don't know if it's because of these SSRIs that everybody's on. Like, Mike, you said you were on on a medication a while back. I was too back in 2016. Um, I stopped going to mass in 2016 and like things started spiral. I was losing my temper. So I went on Cymbalta for like a like six to eight months, I think I was on it. And I remember coming off of that stuff, and it was one of the most horrible experiences I've ever had. Like it was the withdrawals of coming off that stuff. Like, you get brain zaps, you you like it, you get vertigo. It's really, really intense coming. I'm so glad I got off of it. But really, just going back to mass in the sacraments was all I actually needed. I was away from the sacraments for that period of time, and things just got completely out of out of hand for me. But once I came back, I didn't need that stuff anymore. So um, Rob, do you have which clip do you want to play first? I sent a bunch.

SPEAKER_09 21:55

I don't know. I didn't watch them. You tell me not to watch them.

SPEAKER_08 21:58

Uh oh, I saw you have one loaded up. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_09 22:00

If that was oh, that one's uh that's Joshua sent that.

SPEAKER_06 22:05

It's pretty funny. It's a short clip from a movie, Jack Nicholson.

SPEAKER_05 22:10

You have no idea what your work means to me.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

What does it mean to you? He's a best-selling novel. Oh god, this is like a nightmare.

SPEAKER_05 22:26

Oh, come on. Just a couple of questions. How hard is that? How do you write women so well?

SPEAKER_00 22:35

I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.

SPEAKER_08 22:50

Um, all right, that was funny. Uh Rob, I want to start with um

Pro Life Influencers And The Word Murder

SPEAKER_08 22:55

I want to start with the difference between Lila Rose and Katie Miller's tweet. Yep. Pull that up because all right, so we got we have to talk about the women in the pro-life movement, right? Um, Rob, you had a really good response to Lila today. And yeah, you did. Um so Lila put a tweet up and then took it down and deleted it because she got so much blowback, which is the first time I've ever seen her do that. She usually doubles down, but she then she put something else up after. So she wrote, uh Lindsay Clancy reportedly sought help repeatedly before the deaths of her children. That should haunt us when a mother is clearly first up, the deaths of her children.

SPEAKER_07 23:31

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_08 23:33

Not not Lindsay Clancy reportedly sought help before murdering her children, right? Yeah, for the deaths of her children. Like there's some accident, right? That should haunt us. When a mother is clearly deteriorating, our healthcare system cannot afford to simply move her from appointment to appointment without asking whether the treatment is actually working. So that's her her replay. Now, this is like Lila Rose, who's supposed to be the one fighting for the unborn and for the innocent children out there, just makes it like this death was accidental, like nothing about and what was crazy to me is now if if you if you saw a man do this, if a man was on a ton of different psych meds and he had snapped and killed his family, there would not be this brushing over the oh the the death of the child, like this exoneration of the guilt of this woman and trying to absolve her of the crime of murdering her children. Like these children, I can't you think of the horror those poor kids must have felt that the person who's supposed to care for them and love them straps a weightlifting belt around their neck and strangles them to that. Like, how we can drive minutes each. Yeah, and it's just like it's such a horrifying thing that, like, you like Mike said earlier, you you can acknowledge the horrifying death these children went through at the hands of their mother, while still saying like the doctors were wrong for doing things the way they did, like the two are not mutually exclusive in any way, but the idea that Lila would just kind of just and Rob, your response to her was uh I think you said something along the lines like why are you so allergic to saying the word murder? Yeah, like why are you not holding the mother accountable for the crime she did? And so that's one of the reactions we're getting from women.

SPEAKER_07 25:19

Well, she's also not anti, she's not uh uh she doesn't take an abolitionist um position either, right? So, I mean, I'm not really surprised by that reaction at all.

SPEAKER_09 25:29

What do you mean an abolitionist position?

SPEAKER_07 25:31

Like just getting rid of abortion altogether.

SPEAKER_09 25:32

She doesn't believe women should be, you know, criminally charged if they murder their children.

SPEAKER_08 25:38

So basically, it's like women are victims of the abortion industry.

SPEAKER_09 25:42

Right, she knows that fairly often, actually.

SPEAKER_08 25:44

Yeah, like women are victims of the abortion industry, and women who murder their children are victims of the healthcare industry. Never is the woman the perpetrator of the crime, ever.

SPEAKER_07 25:57

And there's also something very real. I mean, not to gloss over the point, but you know, uh, Anthony and Rob, you've seen your your your wives go through, you know, postpartum. That that's a real thing. That that's also you know worthy of acknowledgement as well, coupled with these these psychiatric meds, coupled with the morality that's devoid of Christ. Now you have a real entry point um and an exposure point for the demonic. I mean, I think it's really easy to say this is just demonic, it's it's it's a bunch of factors. Um, but uh again, I to add the point, she's a she's she's murderous, she's evil, she was on psychiatric meds, and she was going through postpartum. Like that's that's that's a real she was also Catholic.

SPEAKER_08 26:39

Rob, put up the put up the video from the New York Post. Hold on. You don't want to you want to Yeah, yeah. Show Katie Miller. Now Katie Miller, who somebody pointed this out. What's interesting about Katie Miller is that you we all know Katie Miller as Steve Miller's wife. None of us know who Lila Rose's husband is. Lila Rose didn't even take her husband's name, right? We all know Katie Miller as the wife of Steve Stephen Miller, and that is an interesting thing to point out. So bring up Katie Miller's response to Lila. You don't get newly diagnosed with postpartum psychosis at eight months. Multiple doctors testified she was not psychotic at prior visits. She wasn't psychotic after she launched herself out of a window either. She should be hung and show no mercy. You don't kill your kids. Like, this is kind of what the point is. I don't care what voices you're hearing in your head. You premeditatedly sent your husband to the store to do this. Like, and I don't care what psych meds you're on. If you think there's a possibility you could harm your kids, you tell people, get me away from my children. I'm having these intrusive thoughts. I can't be, they're not safe around me. But instead, she says to her husband after the fact, she goes, The voice told me if I didn't do it now, I would lose my chance. Like, that's how insane this is.

SPEAKER_07 27:53

But why are we surprised in a culture where we have something called Sid's sudden infant death syndrome, and nobody really questioned questioned it up until the last five years? You know, that's a that now that's a black pill. And you guys want to go down a rabbit hole? Children don't just die. Okay, vaccinations, yeah, that's part of it too. But it's also women killing their children or rolling on top of them as well.

SPEAKER_09 28:16

In sub substance abuse, substance abuse, of course, too.

SPEAKER_07 28:19

But nobody wants to talk about the fact that a lot of women kill their children. It's a real thing.

SPEAKER_06 28:24

What's uh I don't know if you guys had anything to add, but there's a c I mean of the four of us, I think I'm the only one that knows Katie Miller. She was my boss at the White House, and it's kind of crazy to I I completely agree with what she said. It's kind of crazy that a non-Catholic woman um would see this so much more clearly in this regard. Yeah, it was really like why why uh why are Lila and a number of others, and and you know, I'm appreciative for some of what Lila's done, but why are they get not getting this at the level that Katie Miller is getting it? So it was uh unfortunate situation. Another crazy.

SPEAKER_09 29:05

Katie, the first sentence when she says you don't get newly diagnosed with postpartum city months, like yeah, it's less than I think one percent of cases are diagnosed at around eight months, like 90%, it's about two to three weeks after birth.

SPEAKER_07 29:20

But if you talk to some women, it's like postpartum lasts five years after you have a child. It can it can last a while, but it gets diagnosed usually pretty early.

SPEAKER_08 29:30

I I think honestly, like these doctors, she went for like stays for multiple days in places. Like when they saw the meds weren't helpful, like they should have just taken her off everything and just got this woman out to take walks. Like, I don't think you can underestimate how much good can be done from just getting out on your feet and taking a wall. Like the the the amount of healthy, like just getting into nature and just doing something natural would be so would have been so much better for this woman. But what an interesting angle is uh bring up that New York Post clip, Rob, and play the video. Um Lindsay Clancy was Catholic, and her mother-in-law, look what look what the prosecutor asks the mother-in-law, and they they stopped dead in her tracks, um talking to her about mortal sin. It's pretty interesting that that Lindsay Clancy was at church on Christmas, like a couple of weeks before this happened.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Moving towards Christmas, you had um dinner with them at their house on the 23rd, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:36

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Um, do you remember breakfast on Christmas Day?

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Was that at their house or someplace else? Their house. Okay. And then what did you guys do after breakfast? We went to church. And um fair to say, you've previously testified that breakfast was great.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

And that church was beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

And in fact, um, the defendant she told you that it was great and that she was glad she went to church that day. I'm quite sure. Yes, she did. And then after um that, uh, you're aware uh they went down to Connecticut to see her family.

unknown 31:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Um, are you uh active member in the Catholic Church? Yes. So you're uh murder is considered a mortal sin?

SPEAKER_08 31:24

And they get they object right there, and the judge, the judge sustains the objection. I don't know where she was going with that line of questioning.

SPEAKER_09 31:33

I think probably trying to establish that Lindsay would have known what's right and wrong, right?

SPEAKER_08 31:40

Because that's that's kind of what this case comes down to. Does Lindsay know the severity of her actions? Does she understand it's wrong to kill her kids before she does it? Like it and like clearly she did. Like any, I don't care, even if you're an insane person, you know it's wrong to do what she did.

SPEAKER_09 31:57

Like otherwise, you wouldn't try to hide it.

SPEAKER_08 32:00

You wouldn't send your husband out to the store before you you did it. You knew you had to do it. Um, and then I want to play some of the reactions um of

When Online Empathy Becomes Denial

SPEAKER_08 32:10

some of some of these women, man. Um so go oh, yeah, so that tweet that we read by Lila, she did delete that.

SPEAKER_09 32:19

Um did you see Kristen Hawkins tweet? No. About how we we shouldn't be mean to women about this because otherwise they might vote for the Democrats. Are you kidding me? It was uh I mean, I am definitely paraphrasing it, but uh let me find the real one.

SPEAKER_08 32:37

Yeah, I did see that. But um, if if you want to bring up just one or two of the videos below below where I wrote she deleted the tweet, Rob. Yeah, while you're looking for that.

SPEAKER_09 32:47

I have it right here.

SPEAKER_07 32:48

Uh I wonder how much of this, too, is I mean, this may be a stretch, but downstream from the poor catechesis around the proper disposition of receiving the Eucharist, just just darkening your your way.

SPEAKER_08 32:58

Yeah, like from receiving immortal sin, right? Yeah. I'm sure she went up and received the at Christmas that year.

SPEAKER_09 33:08

Indicated further on into her travels.

SPEAKER_08 33:10

I am completely overwhelmed trying to take care of the kids. I'm these women are playing audio from the trial and saying, I'm the same, Lindsay, as she holds her baby while recording it. While recording it, I'm terrified like somebody should take this woman's children away. She's basically saying, I have the same intrusive thoughts, and I could do this to my child.

SPEAKER_06 33:32

Like, if a man did this, child protective services would be set set on him. And rightly so, and rightly so.

SPEAKER_08 33:40

It's like absolutely insane. Um, that's nuts. I had not seen that. Wow. Go to the Colin Rugg tweet, Rob. Like, these are they're all like you have to. So I'm gonna show you guys the different reactions to this thing. Like, so some of them are some of them have just totally lost their minds and think the husband did it. Like the the Lindsay Clancy's uh lawyer is not arguing that the husband did it. Nobody said there's the woman admitted she did it, and some of these crazy people are saying that the husband did it. Then you have this reaction, which is like this scares me, what this woman says here.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Has anyone else noticed how men seem very quiet about the Lindsay Clancy trial? Why is that? Why are men not standing up for her when the evidence is showing more and more that Patrick did it? I feel like they're because she said she did it, like bro code that you don't speak out against abusive behavior, like it's seen as weak. I think that's why all the women watching this case love Kevin Reddington, Lindsay's lawyer, so much, is because it's so rare to see a man stand up so passionately against injustice towards women and against abuse towards women. Why are men being so silent? And at this point, if you're a man saying like she should just go to prison, she did it, Patrick's innocent, leave him alone, he was a great dad. With all the evidence that's coming out, if you are saying that about Patrick still, it's a good thing I don't think she should go to prison.

SPEAKER_06 35:17

That was good, Rob. That was good.

SPEAKER_08 35:19

So that so that's the that's one where she's actually saying the husband did it. So this is like all over the place online that women think the husband did it, which is totally more insane than Lindsay Clancy, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_07 35:32

I think part of this is a case of you know how you know dudes rise each other and we don't, or whatever the term is, we we knock knock each other, we don't mean it. Women compliment each other and we don't mean it. I think part of this is almost like this reverse virtue signal. They see this egregious act, and then by comparison, they're like, oh man, what I'm doing is not so bad. And they move to defend her when really deep down they they also think that she's evil too. It's really it's very strange psychology with women and compliments, and you know, women when they're not living as they should, uh, kind of revel in uh another woman's misfortune. I mean, and they're divorced. I've talked about it with so many women, man. You know, men obviously are prone to this as well, but it it is it is especially common for women.

SPEAKER_06 36:13

You know, it's interesting. I had a buddy's wedding, I'm sorry, wedding birthday this weekend, although it was his wedding anniversary and his birthday happened to me the same day. So that's why we were celebrating that too. But um, you know, one of our other buddies was really struggling with some stuff, family stuff and deep stuff, and he was a little hesitant to bring it up. And me and my other friend whose birthday was, we were like, well, like why? What's going on? What are you actually afraid of? He was like, Oh, you guys will think I'm weak. I think whatever. So, and we were explaining that's not true. He knows it's not true. We're we've been close friends for years. But I explained to him, I said, you know, I think there is, and I know there's women who can do this all right, but it just in terms of like what seems to be the broad pattern in the podcast space online and social media, it seems that so many women will vent in order to receive validation. And I said to my buddy, I said, that's not how we men are supposed to do it. We are supposed to vent so that it can be fully out there, like before our eyes, with ourselves and our brothers. And then we apply reason to that pattern and we

Fraternal Correction And Male Friendship

SPEAKER_06 37:15

create a new pattern so that when that old dysfunctional pattern of thinking comes up in our heads again, we've got a new pattern that we've come up with, our brothers, and we work with our will to mentally work toward getting that toward that right pattern of thinking. That's why we share things as men. That that's the functional uh way to look at it, I think. And that was extremely helpful for him and extremely helpful for for all of us. And literally just today, I started a new uh group for reading the great books with a buddy of mine, two buddies of mine. And like Mike, we were literally just talking about that. Like one of the avowed purposes of the group is we are there for accountability, growing in virtue, checking in on each other, and correction. Like the very first book we're reading is Cicero's um on friendship. And uh, you know, on friendship is very, very clear. This is a pagan Roman, you know, a century or so before Christ. And he's very clear that one of the requirements of true friendship is that you have to be able to correct your friends openly if they're in the wrong. And those friends, Cicero literally says the friend must obey his friend. He's assuming he's correct and it's a valid criticism and all that. But it's like that's the essence in many ways of what m masculine uh friendship at its best is supposed to be about. And I'm very, very glad to see a lot of young men embracing this. There's still quite a few that need to embrace it further. Um, but it's just the the the contrast between the male ethos behind this and the female online could not be more different in my experience.

SPEAKER_08 38:42

There's well, first off, I'm I'm gonna say this, and I know there are a lot of women who watch our show, surprisingly, but um like I think it's probably more difficult for women in the confessional. Like, I just from judging online behavior and what I see, and I I just think it's harder for women to take accountability. I think I think it's a a cross that they bear that they have to actually look at themselves and at their behavior. And it's something like you, you know, I I think when a man go a man goes into the confessional, it's it's kind of easy for us to beat up on ourselves. Like we're you know, we it's it's easier for us than it is for women. I think it's probably more of a challenge for them. And it's not it's something of like maybe has to do with their nature or something. I don't know. Like, I think I think it's a heavier cross they have to actually look inwardly and see their faults and see their defects than it is for men.

SPEAKER_09 39:39

Like, I wonder how it would be interesting to know how often this this Lindsey Clancy like went to confession.

SPEAKER_07 39:49

Oh, not very often, if at all, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_08 39:52

Yeah, because I alright, so I I know someone who has some kind of psychos like psychosis, and this that's another thing I want to talk to you guys about, too, actually. So, like the husband, the husband, this whole thing happens and he divorces her and he's remarried within like a year or two. I think that's a lot of a lot of the women are reacting to that that the husband divorced her and he remarried within. I mean, this happened two years ago. He's already

What A Husband Owes In Crisis

SPEAKER_08 40:25

remarried at this point. And I'm trying to it's such a hard thing for me to imagine this situation in my marriage, right? But like Do you abandon your wife if she has a psychotic break like this? Like, because I know someone who this kind of happened to where the wife had a psychotic break and she attempted to take her own life, and the husband did the same thing, like, got protective orders against her, threw her out of the house, all this stuff. And he just basically shunned her, he filed for divorce, and he wants nothing to do with her, he won't let her near the kids or anything. And thank God that was just self-harm there. But in a situation like this, like, what is the husband's role if the wife has a psychotic break like that, or whatever, whatever actually happened there?

SPEAKER_07 41:13

You pray for the grace of the the of the white martyr's crown. I mean, that's that's how I feel. You know, you want to attain the incorruptible crown of glory in the afterlife, doesn't mean you subject yourself to violence, but you know, this is also going to purify a man in this process as well. I mean, you just got to take up the cross that the Lord has given you. That's how I feel.

SPEAKER_08 41:32

And you stay with your wife, you help her recover from the like what do you do everything possible? Yeah, you you do. You definitely don't go get a girlfriend in three weeks and be married.

SPEAKER_07 41:41

No, that that's not even the Christ was born beneath the dirt, you know, it almost like a a subhuman birth for for a you know a uh a divine person who who could have come in in a in a in a in a on a throne in a castle befitting of a king, but chose not to, and we're to say, well, this this bit of hardship, which is tremendous, we cannot bear. It is just is just effeminate, man. And I think that's what it is. This we live in a post-lap Syrian world, it's the sin of Adam and Eve. Adam, irresponsibility and effeminacy, the unwillingness to do what is arduous, and then usurpation. It's just usurpation of authority.

SPEAKER_08 42:19

I'll say this like like what Lindsay did is one thing, but with the person I just described, like his wife harming herself like that, like I think the husband's a scumbag. Like, I really do. Like, I if my wife ever went through some kind of depression like that, where she went through something like that, I wouldn't leave her side. There's nothing in the world that would get me to leave her side. I would help her through everything I possibly could. It's a it's a it's a different situation, obviously. Like, I don't know what happens to a man after something like that. Like, I'm sure that I you know, I'm sure that's a totally different scenario. But um, yeah, I don't know, man. It's just it's just it's just crazy to watch the difference in men and women, like recognizing that we are different, but just seeing how all these women are just running to her defense, like

Social Media, Feminism, And Fatherlessness

SPEAKER_08 43:05

she like they they empathize with her, like they all felt like they could have killed their kids after they had them.

SPEAKER_06 43:13

I have a question for all of you guys. I have I'm curious, I'm curious what you guys think. How much do you think this is? Um, I sometimes wonder, I I think the social science is pretty clear that women are getting pretty damn radical. Yeah, um, so I I think there's real I'm also curious how much you guys think it's social media and like a self-selection that's happening with the kind of women who are on social media um as opposed to the average woman. But perhaps the average woman is on social media, that's what it seems like. But I'm curious what you guys think.

SPEAKER_08 43:45

Yeah, that's a that's a really good point because I I think so much of this whole this whole situation has to do with social media. Even like I I have a couple of clips of even like that we're gonna do on the other side of just. Like women calling up John Deloney and telling how they hate their daughter in one of them, and the other one is saying how she's she got pregnant at 40 and she can't imagine how she's going to live her life now. But I think so much of it is people watching other people on social media and thinking that like they're missing out on something because other people look like they have perfect lives. Like you just said, like there's something about the type of woman who wants to put herself out on social media. You see, there's this whole genre of women who file for divorce and then go on social media to talk about their divorce journey. Like there's there's something like there is a certain type of woman that does that, right? Who just puts everything out online and and seeks that external validation from strangers that she'll never know. It is it is definitely a factor in this whole situation for sure.

SPEAKER_07 44:52

Well, it inflames certain people's defects to a very high degree, and then others not so much, just depending on their temperament. It's the same thing, it's the same thing with men. You know, it's it's it's yeah, I don't think it's super super complicated.

SPEAKER_08 45:04

I think it is sort of self-selection in a way, because these people that have these predominant, like vainglorious, you know, uh the vice of vainglory naturally are going to be predisposed to something like this, and it's just gonna inflame it to narcissism, like it brings narcissism out in a in a way in people that is just like it's astonishing to see, you know, like real narcissism, not even vainglory, like real narcissism, where like I don't I don't know, it's it's a it's a it's definitely a social media phenomena, but yeah, like I so this whole case, you know what it is? It's hard for me to even like empathize with this situation that this woman did this because every mother in my life, like whether it's my own mother, my sisters-in-law, my wife, my my any any of the mothers I've known in my own life have been such loving, devoted mothers, like they're not anything like the crap we're seeing online, like in any way whatsoever. So, like the idea, you know, but I also don't want to hold my my situation as the standard either, because I do know a couple of people that just from talking with them said that their wives did go through some kind of postpartum and stuff, but I I just couldn't imagine like a mother getting a murderous postpartum. No, not murderous, not definitely not that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:23

Yeah, I mean it it does seem in my anecdotal experience, it does seem to span across a wide cross-section of women. And I think about the work of um Professor Jonathan Haidt, you guys have probably seen his stuff, The Anxious Generation. And it's un unquestionably true that social media has affected both sexes, mental health, suicidal ideation, all that kind of stuff. But it it has affected women even worse. It seems to be pretty clear from a lot of his research. And um, it does seem that there's a sort of more collective affirmation of identity and whatnot that goes on with a lot of women. You know, Jordan Peterson talked about this that men are higher in disagreeableness. Is that what it is? So, like men, men can definitely line up and you know, choose the road to hell as easily as women in some cases, but but in general, the average man is more disagreeable than the average woman, meaning he will buck the crowd far more easily if he thinks the crowd is wrong. Uh, he will not, you know, Moses, that line of uh you shall not go with a crowd to do evil. Um, so like that's what men are really supposed to do when we're leading the way Christ would have us lead is we don't care what the crowd is doing, we're gonna do what's right, even if it costs us our lives. And I think there are women who would do that too. I think particularly of the mother of the seven sons in the book of Maccabees, right, where they're murdering her sons, and she's like encouraging martyrdom. Yeah, yeah, keep going, keep going. I mean, that's like, and then of course, that's mirrored with our lady, who in the Pieta, Jordan Pearson also has a I know we're we're all kind of down on Jordan Pearson these days for various reasons, but he does have this amazing clip about the Pieta, you know, our lady holding our lord, and he like chokes up about it. And he was saying that Mary is sort of the picture of the mother, and that the reason why is because she gives her son up to be smacked by the world in the most horrific way possible and see see what's in him essentially, and she lets him do it. And he said, and that's how you get a statue like that. And of course he was choking up, and and so it just but it seems like the the collective psychosis right now with a lot of women is affirm me, affirm me, affirm me, affirm me, affirm me. And I'm kind of curious where that comes from. I do have some thoughts, um, but I'm kind of I don't know if I I'm kind of curious where you guys think that comes from. I mean, I think some of it's endemic to female nature, but I wonder if it's worse now. Oh, it's definitely worse than for reasons other than social media, like other reasons as well.

SPEAKER_08 48:53

Well, well, I think I mean the consequences of feminism over the past 75 years, right? Telling women that they are men essentially, going through that whole process. Um, because you I think even my childhood when women were be like they just they were just told like you can do anything, you know, and it's just the this has had an effect over the past 75 years, and then you get social media and it just amplifies it to a level that I don't think any of us could really even grasp how like how bad the damage is going to be, like not to absolve them of responsibility, but there the the the the crisis is fatherlessness, man.

SPEAKER_07 49:34

Yeah, that's a big part of it. You know, there's this diabolical inversion of the word patriarchy, everybody's up in arms over the word. It is, it is a it is a loving self-gift. That's what it is. Your authority, your headship is not for you, it is for those that are subordinated to you. And even that word, it's like, no, no, no. Listen to the way how we're describing it. Think about Jesus, think about Saint Joseph. This is the the example that we must emulate, meaning having stringent moral boundaries and protecting our children from the world, protecting them from indoctrination. This is the result. Men got super, super soft, and fathers abandoned them, and then now there's like who who else is to represent the the image of God the Father in the home? Who is that first image? Yeah, when that first image is not there, and the logos is not present in the home.

SPEAKER_08 50:22

I know so many families like that, man. Like, just so many families that like the father just is afraid to say anything, and the mother rules the home, and the daughters walk all over him, and he's just there and he can't say anything.

SPEAKER_06 50:37

And it's well, we're we're all millennials, you know. I know still to this day, I only know one millennial friend. Uh off top man, maybe there's another I don't know about. How many of our fathers? I love my dad, but how many of our fathers had solid Christ-centered discussions about the opposite sex and and sex in general?

SPEAKER_09 50:56

No, never.

SPEAKER_06 50:58

It didn't happen. It didn't happen, and virtually every man of our generation I've talked to, none of us got it. None of us. And this is translated into a bestial outlook that many men have toward women. And it's you guys know me, I'm not in any way trying to absolve the women. There is something truly insane and psychopathic going on with women right now. And we need to call it out. And you know, as I often joke, I've got celibacy and powered speech, you know, because there's certain things we don't have to worry about. Um, but it's like so men need to more often say no. But you know what? Your no to go with what Mike said about proper subordination, you our no to somebody else has to be first built on our no to ourselves. That's why that's why Lent was so important. Like if we're not saying no to ourselves and our own passions, whenever we say no to other people and particularly women, it it will tend toward grave disorder. And um, you know, I just you know, I grew up and a lot and uh, you know, a lot of guys our age, they were they were you know banging left and right too. They were treating women like trash and meat too, all the time. All the time. And if you have a fatherless home, whether not literally, maybe not literally if a physically fatherless home, but a morally fatherless home, a spiritually fatherless home. That's where you're the situation you're in with like all the young men you're talking to. What are we to expect? What are we to expect?

SPEAKER_09 52:25

Most of us were. I mean, even Cradle Catholics were raised with no no fatherhood in the church either. Yeah, yeah. So that's my point.

SPEAKER_08 52:35

This this this conversation is gonna get a little personal. And no, not on this channel. Well, that's the thing. I don't want to do it on YouTube. Oh, okay. Um, yeah, because I I would like to discuss some of those situations, but um, I wanna I definitely want to get to some of the super chats real quick. I work for child protective services for years. I'm currently in juvenile probation. There are some common denominators. Single mothers do a lot of damage, but no one to hold them accountable. Uh, in my city, there was a case where a woman's boyfriend uh killed her two-year-old daughter and she knew about it. The mom got charged, and there were some women who stated that she's a victim. Yeah, it's it's like it really is kind of kind of wild. This and I want to play that other clip that I sent in before we go. Um, before we go to the other side, Rob. That last one I sent.

SPEAKER_09 53:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 53:27

Um just to just to kind of close up this story a little bit.

SPEAKER_09 53:37

This one.

SPEAKER_08 53:39

Right. Oh gosh, I saw this. Oh yeah. I think you sent this one to us, Josh. So this this is the other angle that I'm seeing. This is all right, so this is a therapist explaining why women are so empathetic to her.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

The Lindsey Clancy trial is going to be one of the most significant trials of your lifetime. We are all experiencing something completely unprecedented. Never before have we seen so many mothers and women rally behind somebody who confessed to killing her three children. And it is not because we cannot hold women accountable. Many of us see ourselves in Lindsay. Many of us know that we could have been only one step away from doing some of those horrific things because we experienced significant mental health issues after one of our children was born, and many of us know just how dark some of those thoughts get. So, yeah, this is gonna be one of the most significant trials.

SPEAKER_08 54:55

Like child protective services, but like almost every woman online you see is like, I'm neurodivergent, and I have ADHD, and I have this, and I have that. And they give you like a list of these mental health disorders that they have, and it they use it as an excuse for everything. It's like they could be just the most awful people, and well, I have ADHD and I have I'm neurodivergent, or whatever the hell. Like, they just yeah, they all basically diagnose themselves with these crazy things, and they just give it, use it as a path to go about the most awful behavior imaginable. It's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_07 55:28

Yeah, it would be one thing to say that we're all one retraction of grace from doing something completely depraved. Uh, and what we could all agree with that because it's that's true, but to go on that kind of rant and to do it and to do it, do it publicly and you know, with her credentials, therapists, whatever. Yeah, it's uh that's pretty damning.

SPEAKER_08 55:48

So um, yeah, we have we have way more to cover on the other side, but I I like to keep these under an hour over here. Um

Sponsors, Promos, And The Paywall Jump

SPEAKER_08 55:56

we're going to go to the other side before we go. Uh Josh, we're gonna have to send you some knickknacks for that throat issue you have. We would like for you to be our next Knickknack success.

SPEAKER_06 56:05

As Michael Cain said, never.

SPEAKER_08 56:07

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SPEAKER_09 56:35

You do have to say that they do contain nicotine, they do contain nicotine.

SPEAKER_08 56:38

Nicotine is an addictive substance. You guys all know that. That's why you're buying knick-knacks in the first place. Uh, and if you guys have some knick-knack success stories, send them in. And we are still offering $1,000 to the first person who gets a pack of knick-knacks in Poplio's hand. Do not forget about that contest. If you are looking for a girl, if you do have throat issues, if all those things are coming up, but the knick knick knacks do not cure it. You go get yourself a black monk rosary. Go to blackmonkrosary.com, use code avoiding babylon at checkout, and you'll get 10% off your first black monk roster, oh, all your black monk rosaries. I'm gonna order one from my cousin who is just up here. I also um I'm doing uh like a kind of kind of a St. Michael's uh lent right now. And uh I I stopped drinking, which this was my first weekend sober in a very long time, probably since the beginning of the summer. And uh I've been hammering those rosaries to get me uh get me through my days. And it's pretty hard to like I was out of the daily rosary habit for a few weeks, maybe even maybe the whole summer. And it's hard to get back into it when you're rusty like that, man. But that black monk rosary got me right back up on board. So go to blackbunkrosaries.com, guys, and we will see you guys on the other side. Mike, go to Mike Pantile's YouTube channel, go to Eternal Person, subscribe to these guys. I'm sure if you're on our channel, you're already subscribed to their channels, but show our brothers some love, check out their videos, and we will rob you better have something queued up. I do, but you should tell people to go through enough time to make sure you got the you got the song ready. Guys, thank you for joining us. And if you are not a locals member, you suck.

SPEAKER_09 58:16

But if you want to become one, go to avoiding babylon dot locals.com.

SPEAKER_08 58:20

There you go.

Boomer Parenting And The Fear Of No

SPEAKER_08 58:46

Speaking of uh fatherless homes, right? It wasn't just that like my father refused to say no. It was like it was like um you can't dare tell your children anything because they might not like what you say. Like I I I Like, what do you mean? The the boomer mentality was because they went and did whatever they wanted as kids, they just decided they were not going to have any input whatsoever on any of the sexual behaviors of their children. They could date whoever they want, they would never dare tell their children no to anything. It was like, like, I'm I look at some of the situations in my family, and I'm just like, I'm like, why did you never like say no? Don't do this. Like, I don't understand how my like even like a situation I'm dealing with right now, with my mother, even and I'm like, you are the mother, like you can say no to this. You're you're you're the one who has the authority to say no in this situation, and it's just like they have oh no, my children might be mad at me. It's like they're terrified that their children will not approve of the thing that they're it's like what what parental figure do you have in your life? And then the other thing the boomers do, it's because I have my cousin up for the weekend, and um he was just telling me, he's like, you know, he's like, there's something about like the boomers and even Gen X, where like back to the Gen X war, yes, yeah, like the boomers and Gen X all kind of have this mentality of like they just want to kind of get their kids raised and then get them out so they can go live their lives, right? And he's like, Yeah, he's like, My parents come down and they they they see the way I'm done. My cousin's got his wife's pregnant with baby number six. They they moved to Kentucky because they wanted to get away from this rat race, they moved to a beautiful community down in Kentucky, they have a really, really close parish family, and his parents will come down and they'll just like start criticizing his parenting. And he's like, When I was 17, I was in jail. He's like, My sister was like, she she was off doing whatever the hell she was doing. It's like, maybe you guys didn't do it right. Like, why are you criticizing my parenting when your parenting was so bad? Like, I think about like the upbringing I had. I dude, if you guys even knew the amount of nonsense I got into in my teen years, that it's like I look at how my kids are just from having that fatherly presence in their life. None of my kids do drugs, none of my kids, like my kids are all uh none of them are sleeping with anybody at a weddle. Like, there is just the idea that like I I don't know, man. I just don't know what the hell the boomers were thinking. And Gen X is not much better.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:39

There are certain topics that inflame a serious lack of accountability. COVID is one of those, you know, a lot of these people that took the the job can't ever retroactively admit that they were wrong. It's just deeply embedded in them, it's just a cognitive dissonance. And I think it a lot of it has to do uh or or similarly uh within the realm of parenting. Because I mean, yeah, a man you know choosing not to do that for his children is is just the it's the lesser path, it's just a lack of virtue because it's hard, man. It's hard to correct your children, have those conversations.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:11

It's it is you guys don't have teenagers yet, so it's like the conversations I had with my daughters was like I sat them down and I was just like, listen, your father loves you way too much to ever let you be the girl that gets taken advantage of. Like, I just I just love you too much. It's never going to happen. You're there's no scenario where you're gonna live out of wedlock with some guy, there's no scenario where you're gonna sleep with somebody, there's no scenario where you're gonna marry a non-Catholic. I will not pay for your wedding, I will not attend your wedding. Like, these are the conversations. So it's like I have one brother married outside the church, now I have another sister that's getting married outside the church right now. And I'm just like, how do you as a parent pay for that?

SPEAKER_09 1:02:51

Like, how do you just say your daughter's down and ask, are you familiar with the concept of an honor killing? Because please don't make me do something like that.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:01

But like, there's a degree which, like, you know, I mean, you know, these conversations start early too.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:09

I mean, my not even five-year-old, not even three-year-old, they veil at mass. They see all the other women do it, they see their mother do it, they veil, they love wearing their veils. But interestingly, my my four-year-old is is almost not constantly, but she talks about modesty pre frequently. Yeah, she'll get I'm not joking, dude. I mean, me and my wife, this is my wife instilling this in her, but me talking to her about this too, trying to phrase it in a way that a four-year-old can understand. When she's out in public, dude, I'm not joking, man. A woman that's dressed in no clothing, she'll get shocked and embarrassed, and she'll like to us, she goes, That's not you know, that's not modest in a judgmental way because she's four. I said, Yeah, we've got to pray for them. They don't get raised in the same way, etc. These conversations this is not your raising daughter's gonna walk through the streets going, shame, shame, shame.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:01

That's awesome. This is why we come to love.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:03

Mommy, daddy, why are they so

Brotherhood, Prayer, And Leading The Home

SPEAKER_09 1:04:05

why is she such a hussy?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:08

You know what I've also noticed with uh boomer and ex um husbands? I'm curious what you guys think of this lack of friends, yeah. And so I wonder, I wonder how much of at least on the husband side, is due to a lack of fraternity. Because when you have brothers around you who are challenging you, pushing you to get better, calling out your mistakes, you're not just doing new sports weather, like life just changes. Like in my own community, we have a weekly men's group. You know, I've got this online thing doing now. I mean, you guys, you know, talk with Anthony at least once a week. Mike is get getting to that rate. So it's just like without that, life would be so much less rich, like immeasurably less rich. And I frankly, I couldn't imagine having all my time with just women and kids. Like it would it would drive me nuts.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:03

It would drive me completely nuts. I think that we live in a bit of um, we live in like a weird position where we have taken the reins of like being spiritual fathers or be or even taking our faith seriously, right? Where the the boomers and Gen X, uh, like in my house at least growing up, my mother was like the spiritual leader of the home. It was like my dad was like, oh, religion's for the women, you know. Oh, we go to church because mom wants us to go to church, you know. It wasn't like my father took an active role in being a priest in the home. And it's like I took such a different approach in my home where it was like I was the one, like I tell my children, I am responsible for getting you to heaven. Like you, you're not if I don't, if you don't get to heaven, I have to give an account to God for that. I did something wrong. Is it like the pearl of great price is the Catholic faith. If you don't, if I don't pass that on to you, I failed as a father. And it's like that older generation just never had that mentality. They were like, Well, you know. We'll just send them to the mass in the sacraments, and you know, if they pick it up, they pick it up. And if they don't, oh well, like there's no scenario where my kids live under my roof and they don't go to mass. You don't live here if you don't go to mass. Where when I was 16, once I started driving, my mom was like, Well, once you start driving, it's up to you to take you take yourself. And of course I stopped going when I was 17 because I don't know any better. But if if I had a father figure in my life, it was like, no, BS, you're going to confession, you're going to like my kid, it's a once-a-month thing, my family. We do. It's like once a month, everybody get your ass in the car, we're going to confession. They all hate you for it.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:32

But also private piety presents itself in public service of your family, too. How many of these men are actually praying for their family members? Much less cultivating a private prayer life. So, like being a priest of the home is not just what you tell your family to do, it is revealed in what you do when nobody's watching you. And if you're not the man that you're not the person in the home that's upholding a very high spiritual standard for yourself, God, self, spouse, children, and proper hierarchy, how can you properly govern your household? You cannot, you cannot teach them the sacraments merely intellectually without living the sacraments yourself. This is the example. It's impossible otherwise. It's do as I say, not as I do. If they don't know that, Christ certainly knows that. But I think deep down, I think they they have an understanding of whether or not their father's full of crap or not, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:24

Yeah. I'll tell you what. Go ahead, Josh. Go ahead. No, just there's that line about a very holy priest will have a holy congregation. A holy priest will have a faithful congregation. A faithful priest will have a lukewarm congregation. A lukewarm priest will have a damnable reprobate congregation. You know, you know, you see the pattern. And I I I even when our private group of friends, fortunately, it's a pretty dedicated group of guys, but you know, there's some of them who are still struggling to do daily rosaries, and I told them in let something like that, like both of you said, they they I was like, you realize you're priest, prophet, and king of your family. Like, if you're not gonna do it, nobody's gonna do it, and nobody who does it will have as much impact as you if you actually do it.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:08

So well, that's why I actually started this um fasting again. I was like, I've you know, the summer was just getting a little ahead of me, and I was like, I need I need like because I love Lent. Lent's my favorite time of year, it's just like spiritual boot camp. And I'm like, uh I I had uh my cousin, one of my other cousins was asking me to do St. Michael's Lent with him, but it all it involved waking up at 2 a.m. to do like an hour of like a holy hour at 2 a.m. And it involved like a weekly meeting, and I was like, I can't I actually can't commit to that stuff because it's dangerous. Like, I can't wake up at 2 a.m. when I'm getting four hours of sleep, as it is. I said, but I'm going to do my own thing. Uh you know, I can't, I can't sign on to all the things they're doing, but I said, I like God's clearly trying to get my attention right now. And uh I'll tell you, man, it was the first Monday I woke up with no alcohol in my system, and I didn't feel that anxiety I typically feel on Monday from going out and having a few drinks on over the weekend and stuff. And it was like I'm finally starting to like clear out again. And the first thought I had when I woke up Monday was pray my rosary on the way into work, and I've been doing it every morning, and it's like it sets your whole day in right perspective when you start your day with prayer, you know. It's like because I I kind of let that fall by the wayside for a couple of months. I I it always happens to me after Easter, like I kind of fall into the indulgence of the Easter feast, and I and I kind of just let the amazing practices I picked up during Lent slip away slowly, slowly. Then the summer comes, and uh so I'm just before you know before I let it get ahead, I was like, let me let me jump on top of this, and I'm I'm enjoying it so far.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:46

And there's a very practical reason that it works like that. It's this is that God is invisible, um, virtue is invisible. Um, the fathers talk about contemplation being the mind raising itself to a contemplation of these heavenly things that are ultimately invisible. The the things that are ultimately, you know, like the Holy Trinity in a perfect communion of love, it's it's invisible. Now it's taken on human nature in Jesus Christ, so it's it's visible to that extent. But the point is that everything that's visible is contingent, it does not exist in and of itself, it exists as a participation in God who is the subsistent act of to be. And so when you open your day in prayer, you are grounding yourself in these ultimate and higher invisible realities so that everything you deal with visibly in your day is hopefully ordered

Mental Prayer And Interior Conversion

SPEAKER_06 1:10:40

by that invisible reality. So I think it's one way to look at it that maybe is helpful.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:44

Well, I had uh I listen to Father Amado's homilies every week, and he uh he did one his not this past Sunday, the Sunday before. It was about just giving giving yourself to like a half an hour of mental prayer, and then freaking Mike over here tweets the other day. He's like when I started mental prayer, I started on five minutes, and I'm like, All right, God, I'll do some mental prayer. You were like the nail in the coffin.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:10

Like, all right oh dude, I'm honored, man. I was just about to bring it up, dude. I was just about to bring it up. There's no becoming a saint without it.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:16

You can't remember, and then I had and then Mike hammered it in, and I was like, All right, I gotta get back on my grind.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:22

See, not affirming, not affirming, masculine friendship.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:25

Yeah, I hammered in the final nail of the coffin. Yeah, well, I wasn't trying to make excuses for it anymore. It was like, no, you know, my the the men in my life who I respect are telling me to get my ass in gear, I better get it in gear, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:37

Absolutely, dude. To Josh's point, that recognition is the recognition of the metaphysical, right? That everything material exists within this cosmology. And if we're not ordering it toward the metaphysical, we are effectively living uh like materialist Christian Christians, which effectively is like practical atheism. What about your your life is marked by a cooperation with grace? Right, and this is why I'm now banging on that drum of mental prayer so hard because there's what type of prayer is more aligned with that than that very thing? The only way you're the only means by which like your your your will is active is is uh choosing to go and do it, which is an invitation by grace. But then for those of us that are ambitious, we do this stuff, we're working or you're working with your hands, you're used to being active with mental prayer, it's a completely passive participation. And God orders and chooses how you progress interiorly, and there's something so profoundly humbling about that. That's why it's like that's the I mean, if it that's the war path that I'm on, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:41

I love it.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:42

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:42

It's it's also like we could tease the Protestants for their personal relationship nonsense, you know, but there's something to that. Like, like being Catholic is more than just going to mass on Sundays and like going to confession and stuff. Like that's that's like the bare minimum, right? Like that is literally the bare minimum. But if you don't have a relationship with God where you're actually talking to God and you're doing this in, you know, this focus inward and trying to, you know, practice virtue and trying trying to better yourself and have that intimate relationship with God. Like you're not going to progress in the spiritual life whatsoever. And your faith is just going to be that Protestant, oh, I believe the right thing, except I go to Mass and I go to confession, you know. It's like it's like it's gotta be deeper than that for us as Catholics.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:27

And it be it what it the confession becomes mechanical too. It becomes, oh, I sinned, therefore, okay, I gotta go pay lip service to the priest. So I'm I'm I'm scared of hell versus it being an offense to God whom you love because he is love itself. And the only encounter that I've had with that, that sort of like interior transition is through actually cultivating an interior life, is increased sorrow for sin, you know, will being strengthened by grace, contemplation of God, even when you are not actually actively praying. Like going to confession can very well be just paying lip service without a proper like disposition itself.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:03

It's Protestant, it's Protestant Catholicism, in my opinion. Exactly. Like it's like, well, I I believe the right thing. It's like it's like faith alone plus the sacraments, is you know, exactly. You believe the right thing and you go to mass and you go to confession, therefore I'm Catholic, but like it's it's gotta be deeper than that. It really does.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:21

I uh we don't have to switch topics if you guys want to continue. It's your show, Anthony.

Ancient Rome On Equality And Control

SPEAKER_06 1:14:25

But I did I did bring a quote from a Roman historian on the women issue. I'd I thought you guys would be curious to reflect on. Um I've had this quote for years, um, but it's um so Cato the Elder was the conservative Roman senator, uh arch conservative. He was the one that coined the phrase Carthagods at the end of every speech, Carthage must be destroyed during the Punic War, I think the second Punic War. Um and so there's a speech that he is recorded by Livy, um, who is writing in the first century, I believe. And so he's covering the transition from the you know, from the earliest days of Rome with the first kings, then it becomes a republic, and then from republic to the empire. So there was a law that the Senate was considering. If I'm remembering correctly, the law would have basically at the time, women were not allowed to buy luxury items from anybody directly, they had to be with a husband uh or an or other male guardian. And so the senate was considering a law where they would not prevent that anymore. It would be legal for women to buy at least certain kinds of luxury items completely on their own without any male guardians. So Cato didn't like this at all. And here's what he said, and particularly the last line, I think is this is in the 200s BC. So this is 2,200-ish years old. I think the last line in general, I'll emphasize it when I get there. It's a it's like a decent paragraph. I think it sums up this entire dynamic darn near perfectly. So here's the paragraph. He says to the Senate, our ancestors thought it not proper that women should perform any even private business without a director, but that they should be ever under the control of parents, brothers, or husbands. We, it seems, suffer them now to interfere in the management of state affairs and thrust themselves into the forum, into general assemblies and to ass and into assemblies of election. For what are they doing at this moment in your streets and lanes? What but arguing, some in support of the motion of tribunes, others contending for the repeal of the law, the law I was just telling you guys about. Will you give rent the reins to their intractable nature and then expect that they themselves should set bounds to their licentiousness and without your interference? This is the smallest of the injunctions laid on them by usage or the laws, all which women bear with impatience. They long for entire liberty, nay, to speak the truth not for liberty, but for unbounded freedom in every particular. For what will they not attempt if they now come off victorious? Recollect all the institutions respecting the sex by which our forefathers restrained their profligacy and subjected them to their husbands. And yet, even with the help of all these restrictions, they can scarcely be kept within bounds. If then you suffer them to throw these off one by one, to tear them all asunder, and at last to be set on an equal footing with yourselves, can you imagine that they will be any longer tolerable? And here's the final line suffer them once to arrive at an equality with you, and they will from that moment become your superiors.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:35

Dude, they were dealing with feminism back in the days of the ancient pagans, it's always been that spirit.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:42

Maybe that's why Rome and Rome fell.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:44

Just so people know, that's book 34, sections two through four of Livy's histories.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:49

It just goes to show you that, like, that Lilith spirit has always been in women trying to do that, and and men are so subordinated to their lower passions that they were even dealing with it back then where men just wanted to please these women. Because look, it's the curse is that women want to rule over their husbands, but the curse on men is you want to please your wife. Like, I'm sorry, but I like we all like my Josh, you're not married, but like you want to please your wife, you want your wife to be happy. Like, we we make goofs about the like happy wife, happy life thing, but it is something a man wants to do, he wants to see his wife that's a good thing, yeah. Right? It's a but it's also a curse because sometimes you don't draw the line at when it's you know, sometimes saying yes is not in her best interest, so it's this it's this constant struggle where women want to rule over their husbands and men want to please their wives, so it's like that dynamic of the power shift is always at play, and it's been at play since the beginning of time.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:46

I think with a lot of men though, yeah, it's a lot of men though, it's not about pleasing their wives so much as it is about avoiding tension in the home. Yeah, yeah. I think that's it's not ordered toward I want to please this woman whom I love, because we we know that as married men, when our wives are pissed off or they're not, you know, whatever in their right mind destroys the whole mood in the home, destroys it more than your bad mood does because we just go interior, it's something so palpable in the air. You're just like, Man, I just want to get rid of this tension. But part of your job is to kind of just let her sit in it sometimes. That's the reality. A woman really does set the tone for everything.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:23

Like, if your wife's in a nasty mood or something, like it's like the whole day is just like dealing with this woman who's dealing with her hormones. It's just like I actually can't imagine what that that husband was going through when Lindsay Clancy was in her eight months of postpartum depression, just dealing with that cloud looming over his home. Like, that must have been a nightmare, man. Like, you kind of get why he checked out after a while, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:48

Uh yeah, isn't that isn't that astounding, though? It's a 2,200-ish year old speech. And you know, I think the Catholic conception of femininity and relationships between the sexes is would would sharpen this. I'm not saying, you know, women not being able to buy luxury items as an item of natural law per se. But it's just interesting, you know. I think one of the things that most concerned me about this Clancy story is I saw that they had raised almost a million dollars. So this is not just social media, this is real people giving real money. You know, and it made me think of this line from this speech about profagacy. And I've heard a lot of women and wives like laugh, and you know, in in a self-deprecating way, like, yeah, I spend most of the money, and like, you know, or or the the funny reels of like the husband saying, Lord God, you know, playing with his family, Lord God, please remove the greatest source of stress from my life. And his wife goes, Poof, you know, you know, and Lord God, please remove the greatest black hole in my budget. The wife goes, poof, you know, she's out of the way, you know. But but it's just um, it is interesting that uh, I mean, he's even talking about female influence in government, yeah. How that was starting to invade, and and it's just it's interesting. So it's what I call a one-niner, nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes one nine.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:03

Can we jump back to boomers real quick? I want I want to keep sure. I I kind of Rob, I put I put the Dave Ramsey

Cutting Kids Out Of The Will

SPEAKER_08 1:21:10

video up at the top. Oh, I want to play this Dave Ramsey video, it's kind of funny. So this woman He's insufferable. This I know, but this yeah, he is insufferable, but so is the woman that calls. She calls because her her kids, and I want to see your guys' take on it. I said it's the most boomer phone call I've ever heard in my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:31

So I am looking for some guidance from Dave and Dr. Delaney about my will. Um, I have two daughters, one of whom is doing very well financially. She and her husband are in the 1%, and the other daughter earns about $50,000. And for several years I felt uncomfortable about how to like divide up the assets. I'm an everyday millionaire. Um, but more recently, I I've gotten to the point where I don't want to give either of them any money. I I I feel like I've worked so hard my whole life. I paid for college for them. I've paid over half a million dollars for college for them, and they've turned into socialists. And they have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:33

Monique, you're my favorite call, maybe in two months. You can kill it. I just wanted to get to that point. All right. So now this this boomer woman sends her kids off to indoctrination camp and then is shocked that they came back indoctrinated, and now she wants to cut them out of her will. Um it's just the most boomer phone call I've ever heard. I work so hard for my money. I don't want to give it to these kids. I want to spend it all myself. I'm not giving them anything. Like, that really is such a boomer mentality where it's like it goes back to the point we were saying before. Like, if her parents had been good parents, these kids never would have become socialists in the first place. But now you sent them off to these fancy colleges because you wanted to brag to your friends that oh, my kid went to this school, my kid went to this school, and now they come back as socialists because you sent them there, and now you want to cut them out of your will and you hate your kid. I just I could I don't know. I just thought it was like the most boomer conversation I've ever had.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:27

Can I play devil's advocate? Yeah, let's hear it. I agree with you. I I agree with you. I'd have to make that specific judgment about this woman, I'd have to ask for information because I think all of us were part of this delusion, myself included, to a certain degree. Um, I think there was a valid assumption many people have that if you send your kid to a higher ed uh institution of learning, it's better for them, and that if you raise them right, they would be okay. Now, I was an RA in the dorms, I saw for a fact, like Christian family after Christian family, the kids were not okay. They acted worse than toddlers in the dorms. It was just god-awful. And so, um, you know, I think a lot, and I know a lot of parents who who sacrificed for their kids to go to college. You know, my dad didn't go to college, my mom barely went to college, and they helped them out of the will. Well, you know, let let me let me imagine um let me imagine a genuinely orthodox, conservative Catholic parent who's worked their ass off and helps their kid go to Harvard. Like what parent wouldn't at least have a side of them that'd be like, wow, my child, I didn't get to go to college, my child gets to go to Harvard, arguably the greatest educational institution, not only in the United in the United States, but in the world. I'm gonna send them there, and that's like part of my expression of love for them. But then they come back like this. In a situation like that, I actually don't mind personally. I think the parent is naive to think if their kid isn't well formed that they can go off to a place like Harvard and not come back totally corrupted.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:08

So I don't know, it just it I feel like I need a few more facts in a situation like that where a parent just cuts their kids out of the will and gives the money to whoever the hell because she doesn't want her social kids. Like, do you do you do you understand the damage you do to the kid and the results? Yeah, that's probably too much.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:27

That's probably too much. Yeah, I'm just saying I think I do think a lot of parents like you ascribed it entirely to her, like wanting to brag. Maybe that is in some cases. I know a lot of good parents who genuinely worked really hard, sacrificed for their kids. They mistakenly and naively thought that sending them to these higher institutions would be good for them. Um, so I don't know. I feel like I feel like a lot of us are recovering from these delusions.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:51

I could see putting money in like a qualified trust where it's like, look, if my kid like you get this money if you're raising your kids in the sacraments and going to mail, like that's the only like I would I could see doing something like that, like putting the money in a trust and saying this money, whoever the executor on the on the trust is, like they only get this money if their children are raised in the sacraments, and you know that then if they get married in a Catholic church, they will get a portion of the money, something like that. But to just cut your kids out of the way, like I've I've seen that happen in families where one kid gets the money and the other doesn't, and I've seen the resentment it builds, and I've seen how much it deforms a person. And I just maybe because I have that personal experience of women.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:35

No, I I have it as well. I've seen nasty fights. I would just if I was talking to this woman, I would ask more questions personally. I'd be like, because maybe that maybe that kid who's a socialist, maybe they've already threatened to cut off the parent. That's been happening a lot. That's also it's so sad that here we are, like after the most anti-Christic event in the history of the world, COVID, we got this psychopathic president. Uh, all the these wars in the Middle East, like the church is a mess, and like at the same time, the sexes are dividing like crazy, and parents and children are dividing like crazy. It is I am in just I don't know how to describe it. I I'm not in fear, I trust Jesus, but man, it's scary. It is a it is a very surreal and scary time. Yeah, I agree, and so and so you're right. I I agree with you. If these were the only facts, yeah, I can see your point. I'm just I would want to know because I I've I've seen some of the fortunately, it's gone away, the fever has subsided, but for a while in my family, multiple family members are talking about cutting off people during COVID stuff because of vaccine stuff or Trump stuff or whatever. Um, it's just it's so diabolical what is happening right now among the generations between the sexes and between the people who are not.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:51

I just want my children to love me when I'm gone. It's like I'm I would just want my children to love me when I'm gone. I've just seen the bitterness that happens when. When someone like cuts somebody out of like people perceive money as love, like it's a weird thing that happens, man. Like when somebody passes on, they perceive how much you love me by how equal the share was, you know. Sure.

unknown 1:28:16

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:16

What do you think, Mike?

SPEAKER_07 1:28:17

Yeah, well, I mean, if taking that call just at face value, I mean, I can't imagine a situation where, unless my child child, God forbid, was like a raging drug addict, I'd I'd put I'd probably put it in a trust where it was there was an executor that had some tight boundaries in the economic climate that we live in right now, just leaving them stranded. What is the point of my pursuit of acquiring resources but to provide for my children and my children's children? I mean, this is a proverbs a wise man provides for his children's children, obviously, a faith inheritance, but also a financial inheritance. I wouldn't see the point, dude. I just wouldn't see the point. I couldn't see a situation where I would deprive my children of that.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:56

You're so different than the generation before you, man. I'm telling you, the boomers don't want to leave anything to their kids, man. They want to spend it all before they're gone. My dad talks about getting a reverse mortgage on his house. Last time, last three times I saw him talking about it. I go, Dad, you want to leave us penniless? I'm like, I don't know. He's like, Oh, you guys are what are you saying? He wants to reverse, he's got dude. My dad has a pension, he has an annuity, he's fine, he's doing fine. He wants to reverse mortgage his house. Like, why? Ah, I'm gonna get a boat. I'm gonna, I'm like, oh my gosh. Wow. He's just like, he just he just they just want to do their, they want to go down to Florida in the winter. They don't like uh it's just insane to me.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:34

As a as a as a man who did not have a father leave him any kind of inheritance financial, much less faith. That that that's the that that's the only reason. I I mean, other than to to help guys, there's a greater mission at play, obviously, too, but it's it's it's for them. We are in dire straits economically, and if I can have this sprint of 10 or 15, 20 years to acquire as much as I can, give to the church faithfully and to provide for my children so they don't have to go through the stress that I've had to go through, that's part of my job. And I mean, if that means I got a downsize to a condo and live very simply and minimally, would I say can I ask you, Mike, a question?

SPEAKER_06 1:30:11

What if one of your kids apostatize?

SPEAKER_08 1:30:15

Well, like Mike said, like we said, with the trust, I would I would say I would put the money in a trust and say, Yes, you you are entitled to this money, but if you stay a faithful Catholic, you get it.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:24

Otherwise, goes to eternal Christendom. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:28

Split between avoiding Babylon and eternal Christendom. Well, that's what I would do. It would be in a it would be in a trust where it's like, listen, you're gonna return to the church.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:37

If this is what moves, send me that clip, Rob, where he said that's what I'm gonna do. Send me that save it.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:43

Okay, yeah, they return to the church. If that's what moves them to return to the church, and then the Holy Spirit bridges the gap, that's exactly what I would do, man. There's there'd be no

Inheritance, Housing, And The End Of Easy Living

SPEAKER_07 1:30:50

nothing that they could do.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:51

I I have no issue with putting strings on the money, you know what I mean? I have no issue with that, but like to just totally abandon your children to the to the to the market that that's like we we talk, we we talk about it all the time. My cup my cousin bought 18 acres down in Kentucky because his plan is to build like a compound on his property so his six kids will have a place to live on his property so that they don't have to worry about buying a home in this market. It's like it's all gonna be set up in a trust and it'll be left to them together, and they'll you know, they'll have to figure it all out. Like that really is like when I when I'm like done here, if I could when if I could just get to like closing out my union book in four or five years, that's my plan. I want to get out of New York, I want to go buy something like that, like a compound where I could, you know, see if I could because I don't know how my kid is ever going to buy a house on Long Island. Like it's just impossible. It's not my my little brother right now is living with his in-laws. He's he's married with two kids, or uh yeah, he's got two kids right now. He wants they want to have a third, and they're like, We're gonna go live with our in-laws right now so that we can save enough money to put a down payment on a house because when they were renting, it was just impossible for him to save. So it's like this is the situation people are in right now. I I heard Eric Sammons, Gen X, talking about how he wouldn't let his sons after 18 live in his house. And I'm like, So dumb.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:12

He did so dumb by the way.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:14

He recently backed up.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:15

Oh, did he battle on that? Yeah, he did. He did, but at first, that's what he said. Like, my son's 20. My son works at he works five days a week uh at a metal fabrication shop, and he's working three nights a week at a restaurant waiting tables. The kid's working 60 hours a week. Like, you can live here as long as you want, as long as you're working and saving money. Like, if that is what you're doing, as long as you're not being a bum on the couch playing video games, like you're working, you're saving money, you have a goal. Like, you're welcome to stay in my house as long as you need.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:44

My greatest inheritance, I will say, from my no-no, my grandfather, was staying at home rent-free and just being able to, I'll forever be indebted to him and just stacking as much as I possibly could. If anybody has that advantage, a lot of guys don't even have that wherewithal, that prudence to understand, hey, this is maybe something I should like take advantage of. It doesn't have to be a monetary inheritance, but if you can live low for a period of time, the problem is too, a lot of young people, yes, it's hard, but a long young people kind of don't want to eat crap for their 20s. If I did not go through this phase of like between 21, 22 when I started my gym to when I got married, like living really low, I would not have been able to get married, purchase a home, all this other stuff, and then I use that as a sort of a springboard. You gotta have some level of you gotta go and get it too. Not to pull your pick pick yourself up by your bootstraps because that sounds too boomer. Um, both of those ideas are intention.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:37

Yes, we were you need to work hard towards it. Like growing growing up, I when I turned uh when I turned seven, I got well the thing is my dad got me the job I have today, right? So I had a job making good money, but they did everything they could to get me out of the house at 18 because they had nine kids and they were like, there's no room here, like you're 18, you have a good job, get out, you know. That was the same. So at 18, I had to start renting an apartment. So I never really got that chance to save money because I was an idiot at 18 and I was doing whatever the hell I wanted to. So then by the time I got married, I had like 10 grand in the bank. I was like, you know, and it was the act of getting married that got me to start like saving and acting like an adult. Being serious.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:20

Can I read for you guys another quote? It's much shorter, it's from another Roman historian. I posted the other day. I think this describes the boomers, what we're describing right now. Um, this is from Sallus the Histories, chapter 16, section three, first century BC. He said the moral character of our ancestors collapsed not gradually as before, but like a rushing torrent. The young men were so corrupted by luxury and greed that it could be rightly said that men had been born who could neither hold on to their family wealth themselves nor allow others to.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:56

So do you do that's first century BC? So that's what I want to ask you.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:00

Like, do you think this is a case of like every generation thinks the next generation after them is just well, no, no, I I think that we're in the worst situation in the history of the world because of for various reasons. That'd be a whole other discussion. But but what I do think is this happened in the first century BC. What was happening in the first century BC? That's very similar to where we are right now. The Roman, well, not just that, but the Roman Republic had actually become an empire. Its institutions still called itself a republic, but this little city-state, it really only became a Mediterranean wide power, the whole Mediterranean in the second and first century BC. It was it was the traditional founding date of Rome is 753, I think. And they have a they have a monarchy at first, and then they they expel the last monarch Tarquin, and so Rome becomes anti-monarchy, supposedly, but then they have the consulate. So you got your two consuls and the Senate, whatever. And so, but gradually these institutions start to break down. Polybius talks about this. Why did the Roman Empire, why did this little city in the middle of Italy gain control of the entire Mediterranean? He ascribed it to Roman institutions, it's a whole fascinating thing. But it really only became a seawide empire in the first and second second century BC. I think that we need to remember, um, it's always we need to always remember the big picture. The big picture is all of us, and particularly our parents, grew up at the height of the American Empire. Like my childhood was mostly in the 90s. So not only was it the height of the American Empire, but there was no more Cold War. There weren't two superpowers, there was now just one. So we grew up in this height, I was just in on a little family vacation. One of the reasons, if if guys want a little practical advice, I have a United credit card that I use for all my daily. I don't even use my debit card anymore because I just have it on auto pay, so it pays automatically, and I get points. So I was able to go on a little Hawaii family vacation recently. My $1,300 flight became $250 because of all these. I I said earlier I don't care what irrational people think, women or set of a contest. So um, so anyway, but but no, I was able to go, but it really struck me. We're in this beautiful place called Princeville in the North Shore of Kauai. It's beautiful that none of this is inherently sinful per se, but you know, there's these golf courses and a lot of older people, and it's just like it really struck me. It's like this is a highly, highly, highly irregular moment in the history of this planet where people actually have the latitude to spend the whole last 10, 20, 30 years of their life, some people, around a golf course pursuing nothing but luxury and hedonism on a north shore of a tropical island and other places too. You know, like the villages. If you go to the villages in Florida, it's like seeing your Disneyland. Yeah, it's like, it's like it's again, it's not sinful in and of itself, but it's like this would have been unimaginable for every generation pre-World War II. You know, you got a few aristocrats, but like that this is a widespread thing. It's just so I think we need to remember.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:05

And I all agree and squandered it. No, I know it's not it's unnatural, but it's just weird.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:09

I I don't have a full and final analysis on it, but it's something that I feel we we need to appreciate more when we're analyzing all of this. Yeah, that's not a criticism of us, it's just like all of us need to appreciate better like how crazy insane and singular a moment in history we grew up in.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:26

Yeah, in all of world history, uh like really seriously a singular moment where this idea of you work to 55 and then you have enough wealth acquired for the middle class average person to just from 55 for the last 30 years of their life to just coast. Like our the next generations won't have that opportunity. It was really like the boomers and Gen X were the last ones to get it. Our generation is not going to be so easily acquired, and then everybody's after that. I don't know what they're gonna do, man.

Final Provocations And Farewell

SPEAKER_07 1:38:55

It's like yeah, so so real quick, I gotta bounce here, but I want to end on this note Sirach chapter 25, verse 24. With a woman, sin had a beginning, and because of her, we all die.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:07

But that's it, ladies. Thanks for biting the apple, thanks for ruining it for everybody. Freaking apple biters, guys.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:17

Gotta bounce. This was awesome. Let's do it again. We're gonna wrap this up.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:19

We're gonna wrap it up. We're all gonna go. So, um, yo, guys, thank you for joining us, man. You guys were you guys were a uh perfect combo to have on to discuss this topic tonight.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:28

So love hanging out with you, dudes. Honor honor to be with you guys. Yeah, we'll do it again. Oh, please. Honor, guys. God bless you, dudes.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:38

We'll talk soon, guys. All right, take us out.