AI Literacy: Ethics and AI: Joshua Maples

AI Literacy: Ethics and AI: This session will be with Joshua Maples, a High School ELA educator who challenges us to think about important topics related to AI ethics. Sonal Patel, Tonya Coats, and Joshua Maples discuss the implications of AI-generated text for plagiarism detection in education. Joshua shares his experiences with AI tools like ChatGPT and Class Companion, highlighting both the benefits, such as immediate feedback and time-saving, and the challenges, such as ethical concerns and the need for responsible use. Joshua emphasizes the importance of professional development for teachers to integrate AI effectively, suggesting a gradual approach to introduce less intimidating tools. The conversation also touches on the role of AI in differentiating instruction and the need for clear policies to address AI-related issues in education.

Joshua Maples: joshua_maples@snowlineschools.com

For more Digital Learning Services information text DLS news  to 22828 or find us on Twitter @sbcss_edtech

Music by ItsWatR from Pixabay - Wataboi Flavour

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Tonya Coats, Sonal Patel, Joshua Maples

Sonal Patel  00:00

So welcome to the SBCSS  Digital Learning bits and bytes podcast, inspired by our dedication for equitable and inclusive educational technology and computer science. Hello everyone. I'm Sonal Patel, and I'm the program manager for digital learning and computer science education, and with me today. I've got the awesome Tonya. Tonya, I'll allow you to introduce yourself.

Tonya Coats  00:24

Hello, everyone. My name is Tonya Coats. I am a Project Specialist with digital learning services here at sbcss.

Sonal Patel  00:30

Thank you. I'm just so excited to be I feel like I haven't done a podcast in quite a little bit. So I'm very excited to be here with our special guest, Joshua maples, who goes by Josh. We recently had the honor of being with his district's AI Task Force, which we'll talk about a little bit later. And Tonya and I agree that Josh was just wonderful conversation, and we definitely wanted to get him here talk to talk about his perspective on AI as an English a high school English teacher. So welcome, Josh. Just want to say hi, thank you. And of course, and I'm going to actually just go ahead and address the elephant in the room that I know a lot of English teachers all over San Bernardino County and throughout our state are going to be thinking about right now, which is, what are your thoughts on AI generated text and its implications for plagiarism detection and academic integrity. And I'm sure you have a lot to say about this one. Yeah,

Joshua Maples  01:28

I'll try to keep it brief, but yeah, it's I think that our worst nightmares, in some ways, is English teachers. The sort of doomsday scenario, right? That scares a lot of people away from this when they hear AI is kind of that that big bad buzz word is that generative AI has so many, so much potential for enabling student plagiarism and cheating, and a lot of what we have familiarity with as teachers might just be like chat, GPT or Gemini or something. That's a very basic generative tool, and we find that that's most of what we've seen students interact with is when we become aware of it is because they have used generative AI, and we realize that they've done something that's that's not ethical academically, right,

Sonal Patel  02:12

right? And have you had any like, instant incidents like this in your own classroom so far? Yes, yes. And how do you personally handle that?

Joshua Maples  02:21

Well, really, just making students redo things. There have been a couple cases when I suspected a generative AI for turning in a writing sample, and I've confronted the student, and they've admitted it. And then there's been a couple cases, just one or two, where I've actually had screenshots via go, guardian of them interacting with a particular educational website that now has generative AI just built into it and is not blocked by our district. So I had proof.

Sonal Patel  02:48

Thank you. And you know, there's a lot of speculation about these plagiarism detectors not being entirely accurate either. So I think part of it, and I'm sure you'll agree, is us as teachers, we know what our students are capable of, right? So when we see something and we're like, that is cause for concern. I'm sure what goes through your mind is, let me have him do that again and see what he can come up with, you know? So I appreciate you sharing a little bit of you know, your concerns. I know that that's how that was kind of one of the first initial conversations we had with you. I think that it's gonna work against us until a little bit later. So Tonya to ask you the next question. 

Tonya Coats  03:25

So Josh, I would love to know, in what ways have you incorporated AI tools in your instruction, if at all, and what has been the response from students

Joshua Maples  03:35

well, so I have, I think that when we first kind of started the task force, I came off as sort of the skeptic, and there was a perception, but even by me, you know that as the most skeptical person in the room, I hadn't, hadn't used AI tools, and I most certainly have used AI tools, right? I was really excited when I found out some of what they could do. So myself and my department, we have been using different AI tools for generating lesson overviews, which, of course, have to be beefed up. You know, the lesson plans are given by AI can sometimes be a little sparse, sentence frames and leveling text, it's really good for leveling text, generating rubrics for text, which, of course, then, you know, you have to go back over those two usually, what it gives you is pretty good, but sometimes it needs a little bit more detail or tweaking for your population. As far as student facing, I started using class companion last year, which gives them immediate feedback based on your human written prompt, including you can write a rubric in human language, and it will score the students writing on the fly as they do it. And I found so many benefits to doing that, in giving that immediate feedback, and that kind of helps satisfy some of the ones who are more validation seeking, who want that immediate feedback from the teacher. It kind of gives that to them, and then I can spend more time helping the ones who are really struggling to get that score up. And then I tried school, AI actually recently, which was a tool that you guys introduced. To us at our focus group, the class response to that one was mixed, and I would say that the not as good experience was my fault. I didn't prompt it well enough. And I went back and checked the prompts, and I said, Oh, yep, that one was on me, but I tried it just for a review of a text with another class, and they actually really liked it. 

Tonya Coats  05:19

That's great to hear. So have you seen any shifts in student engagement utilizing some of these tools

Joshua Maples  05:24

a little bit? I don't think I've thrown enough of it at them to really see, like a continuous or, you know, like a series of pieces of evidence of whether or not their engagement is really different. But yeah, at the time that school AI did work, yes, I saw the engagement being better than it normally would be. And then with class companion, also, I really, especially the first couple times I used it, they saw it as kind of a game, right? That you have, I have a rubric out of 20, and they have a 13 out of 20, and they want to get that number up so as long as they don't get into their frustration zone of it taking too long, they did engage better than they normally would during writing, yeah, oh, I

Tonya Coats  06:02

love to hear that. That's great.

Sonal Patel  06:04

And I am just really excited to hear you talk about prompt engineering. I think I heard that. I think you said it was about, you know, you really reflected on that, and you thought if I did something different in my prompt school, AI might have given me something different, which would have engaged our students in a different kind of way. And I thought that was awesome. And I love that you said that, because I know we talked quite a bit about that at the task force and, you know, and the fact that you mentioned that it's been a bit of a time saver for you, you've used, utilized it for student feedback, which can only help with that personalization aspect of learning, right? Like you're giving them an opportunity to be able to solicit feedback through the use of an AI tool, and then you're using that for yourself as well, and that frees you up to spend more time with students, to engage with them in different conversations, and so much more. So I appreciate you sharing that Now, speaking of the task force, you were involved in the most recent task force with a group of awesome educational partners, including other teachers from the different schools, your assistant superintendent, we had your IT person, Rick there. Shout out to Rick. Everybody just were awesome. Tanya and I talked about it for weeks after we had such an amazing time talking to you all, and you all kept it fun and engaging for us. So my question to you is, can you share your share a bit about your role and how the group is addressing AI's challenges and opportunities for English instruction. Where do you see your role in within the task force?

Joshua Maples  07:31

So me, personally, I was chosen for the task force because I'm also a district tech lead, or, I'm sorry, I'm a site tech lead, and so that my principal just sort of, I think, thought it was natural that I'd be on that. And so what my role, I think, will be, although I don't know that we haven't really sort of figured out scheduling on this yet, is that this is all information I'm going to disseminate to my teachers, and I'm hoping that I'll have some time to do professional developments and maybe get some staff meeting floor time to show some teachers what this stuff can do. Because informally, I've been sharing it with you know, friends on my campus, friends off my campus. I have friends all over the high desert schools. They've been floored by some of what I've shown them. The podcast that you showed us with last notebook has it blew my mind at the training, and it's blown a couple other people's minds when I've talked to them about it and demonstrated,

Sonal Patel  08:28

and I remember your exact words. I think you said something along the lines of, why didn't I know about this before? A little resistance at the beginning, and then when you said that it was, it was just really awesome to hear, right? Because we know that there are so many benefits to utilizing some of these AI tools, and our team here at SBCSS do kind of diligently, you know, take the time to review these tools, you know, vet them, see what the capabilities of them are, and then get input from people like you, mainly because we love to hear this. We love to hear how you're using these tools and how other teachers are finding this mind blowing. And I appreciate you talking about professional development, because one of the things we did, as you remember, at the task force meeting, was we looked at the needs assessment survey results from everybody that participated across your school district, mostly teachers, and a lot of people did say that they are willing to engage with professional development, but about 10 years ago, I was a technology leader, and I found my role to be instrumental in helping to engage other teachers in your school, because you know your teachers. You're with them. You know most of the day, and you get to connect with them and collaborate with them. So I I'm loving this idea of you providing potential future professional development, and you giving your examples, your real life examples, of how you're utilizing them in the classroom. So thank you for that. Anything else can you think of, anything else from the the actual task force that came about that we, you know, we talked about, that was useful to you?

Joshua Maples  09:59

I. Think for us, for for me personally, and for some of my peers who are so concerned about some of the potential pitfalls and how AI can be used for evil rather than good, is that we get that policy really nailed down, you know? And so that is kind of what I saw the role of the focus group in many ways, like, yeah, getting the tools so that we can, we can teach our teams about it, but also having the district people who are at a higher level in terms of drafting these policies and presenting them to the board. Hear are concerns, right? And here's some of the things that you hear coming up about, not just plagiarism, but I think one thing all teachers are probably afraid of is, is deep fakes, you know, and our image is being used inappropriately. And so I'm really glad that we have a place where we can have the discussions to make sure that the board hears you know that it is a concern with this technology, and we need to make sure that we have policies in the event that we discover that's happening, and to help detect when that's happening and realize that we're kind of moving into an era where just because you see a photo doesn't mean you can necessarily believe what's in the photo.

Sonal Patel  11:07

You know absolutely well. So you you feel like that conversation was important, the yes you had about that deep fake, you know, story at Beverly Hills unified, where the students got expelled for putting nude images with faces of students, right? And I really appreciated you being engaged with that conversation and the conversation we had after that about how we need to have this broader discussion about AI literacy and how we need to review the policy, which we did, you know, the current policy. What I really appreciated was your board member. Was there, your superintendent, Ryan Hoffman, was there. Hoffman was there for a short while, and Alan Miller was the person that you know really initiated this. So super appreciate, you know, their role in all of this. I think it's great when we can have the engagement of your your district administrators. So from that, from that discussion for our listeners, we did, we did embark on looking at guidelines and reviewing them. And for our next task force meeting, we'll be looking at it again and looking at some of the additions that we've made to your current what guidelines and what it says about technology. So we're going to add the additional input. We're going to add based on the additional input we got from the task force. So I'm going to turn it over to Tonya, because she has a really important question to ask next. 

Tonya Coats  12:27

So one thing that we discussed during our task force meeting, we talked about the fact that students, they are utilizing AI in greater numbers than teachers are. So what are some ideas you have on students using AI responsibly in the classroom or even outside the classroom,

Joshua Maples  12:45

it is. So that's the million dollar question. You know what I mean? And I think that's where a lot of us do really get stuck. What I kind of want them to see, what I want my students to see right now. And I am approaching this from probably a more little bit more conservative of the perspective of this is that it's not evil, right? When they saw that we were using an AI tool in the form of they didn't know class companion was AI, because it doesn't say AI in the name, but as soon as they saw school AI, they said, Mr. Maples, this is AI. I said, Yes, I know. Said it's okay. You're not this one's not going to get you in trouble, because I'm telling you to use it. I set the parameters. And it's not bad in and of itself. You know, the problem is when you're using it to produce something that is not yours, and then having those conversations about why, that's exactly the same as copying something offline. The concern that I always have is that the because we are seeing, I would assume, in most places, just issues with student engagement overall, and that value of learning for the sake of learning, right? That sometimes those conversations, I just don't know how, how loudly they hear them, you know what I mean? So for me, it's just kind of repetition and trying to get them on board with the idea that I'm not asking you to write this for your health, my health, you know, but I'm actually trying to develop your ability to write. And then what I've been trying to do lately is connected to industry and tell them you're going to be writing no matter what it is that you're doing. And if you end up in an industry where you're allowed to use AI, that's fantastic for you, but that that may or may not be the option, and you gotta know how to do it either way.

Tonya Coats  14:20

I love that. I love the fact that you are taking the lead and having them understand how to explore AI responsibly. Do you ever make any connections to possibly like utilizing AI with some of these social media tools and how AI impacts that

Joshua Maples  14:37

I'm not nearly as much of an expert about the way that the, you know, the dreaded and famous algorithm, how we influence it, it controls us, and all of that stuff. So I've just kind of told them in passing and humorously, you know, that it's, it's affecting everything that we do already, which is something that I kind of like to tell colleagues who are skeptical as well. You're already engaged. You don't, you don't realize that you are but you are. Sure So, no, I wouldn't say that I've gone too deeply into the social media. I'm also get a little concerned, because I actually just found this out today as I was getting ready this morning, and I wanted to ask AI a question. I don't even remember what it was at this point. And I said, I don't want to get my computer out and do all this. It's already in my bag. And I said, Instagram has an AI, will it do only Instagram things, or will it do other stuff? And I asked it for a lesson plan, and it gave me one on on the meta, AI on Instagram. Wow. And I said, Oh, well, the kids certainly have access to this, you know. So right now, without having had those conversations, probably as deeply as I should, right? I'm definitely still in a transitional period with this. I don't necessarily want to connect the AI or the generative AI conversation to the social media conversation, because I feel like that one connection of I don't have to use chat GPT on my school issue device. I can use Instagram on my phone. You know, if they haven't realized that, I'm not sure that I want to be the one to prompt them to that, you know, at least not right now. So, yeah, I haven't gone too far into that. 

Tonya Coats  16:08

Well that's great. I mean, I mean, I think there's going to be time to explore digital literacy, so students have some ways to be able to use AI responsibly. Common Sense. Media has a lot of like lessons where they can engage in that content. So that might be something you know, to go forward with, you know, in the future, as you start exploring more tools in your classroom, 

Sonal Patel  16:28

Right and I think we're going to dig deep into the that Common Sense Media platform and the day of AI literacy curriculum also at the next task force meeting. So we'll take a closer look at that. I think that might be helpful to engage folks in discussions. So I'm going to move forward to this one. Because, I mean, I do. I got to say before I move to this one, I do have some humans that I created in my own household, and I know for a fact my 12 year old and my 14 year old. I won't name names in case they get in trouble. Do use their generative AI tools to their advantage, especially when helping them with their homework. But I've been able to have those conversations with them about responsible use, right? And I think those are really important. That is really important because I wanted to make sure. I want to make sure that she learns through what she's doing. So if, if the task was to write something, then you need to write. You need to be the one writing, right? If that was the learning intention, and the learning intention was something associated with writing that you need to get practice with, then, right? But if it was, say, a history social studies test where she's asked to do a research problem, right? Either, sometimes I think about that, and I think, why not get a starting point on how you might go about that? Why not get some ideas on potential things to research, or potential ideas on what to write about, you know, based on that learning intention. So I think, I think you'd agree on that right? Like it really does depend on what the learning output intention is. What is it, what is it that we want them to get out of that that activity or that task or that assignment, right? And to what extent can we use a tool to our advantage, and remember for our listeners at home. Well, I'm not, I'm not advocating that all of these generative AI tools, chat, GPT included, is used in the school setting. I'm just telling I'm just making a point that they are using it, whether we know about it or not. Yes, yes. How do you This is my next question's for real now. So how do you think AI can support differentiation in reading and writing instruction, particularly for English learners and students with diverse learning needs. 

Joshua Maples  18:26

yeah we this is one of the places that we use it a lot myself in my department, because I teach different levels of English, so I have a lot of students who have learning differences and require the extra support. And my partner teacher in our PLC, is the ELD coordinator of our site. So we've had a lot of conversations about how we can simplify texts, how we can and AI does a beautiful job of that, generating novel texts that are just at whatever the level is. For various purposes, we found that as prompts for cer paragraphs, I just did that last week and developed an assessment we're going to use for leveling a sentence frames. It's really nice to be able to take, especially for, like, a very first piece of an assignment, and say, we're going to do kind of a sort of an essay before the essay we're working on, compare contrast in one of my classes. And I said, Look, we're going to start with one where I'm giving you literal sentence frames so that you can see the process. AI did 100% of that for me. Well, I cleaned it up, but it gave me sentence rings I was very happy with for creating apprentice texts. I really like that too, for students who are at reading levels that need more support, or students who are English learners being able to give them a more complex text and then produce the apprentice text for that, so that they have some content knowledge going in. And the thing that's beautiful is you don't necessarily have to post an entire short story or whatever, because AI already knows what you're talking about. So you ask them to provide an apprentice text, and sometimes it just will, depending on copyright, 

Sonal Patel  19:55

Right. That is a really good those are really good examples. I appreciate you sharing. Um. So we could, you know, you got to hear that day, some of the ideas about also about learner variability and how we can truly imagine a future where students can understand content through varying different formats, right? We talked about the Universal Design for Learning principles and that learner variability aspect. And I remember seeing your reaction to that podcast? Can you, can you just speak about, like, your reaction to the notebook, LM in particular, and the ability for text to be able to, you know, create this whole podcast.

Joshua Maples  20:30

The first thing that impressed me about it was that you were able to just upload a PDF and that, and this is old school. Impressed I was by this, that the old process of OCR, right, when you would put in a PDF, and the text you got out of it was, who's, who knows how good it was going to be or not. We can put a PDF and it generates a perfect notes outline from it. I was impressed by that, and I had no idea what was coming. And then you showed us the podcast feature, and I think my mouth was hanging open the entire time because I couldn't I was legitimate. I was looking at my colleagues, thinking, why are you guys not as shocked as I am by this? This is it's scaring me a little bit how good it is, and I've shared that with several people, and I've had a couple people develop podcasts they're using right now with that.

Sonal Patel  21:13

That's awesome. And, you know, I shared with you, then I think Tonya did as well, that it is really in beta stage right now. Notebook, LM, but can you imagine the possibilities in the future when it does have the ability to, you know, create podcasts in different languages, and do do so much more? Maybe it could even create a podcast with your voice integrated into there, if it's you speaking to me, maybe, you know, like, I mean, the possibilities will be endless. I'm excited. So I've got a credit Tonya, because Tonya's want to introduce me to notebook LM, and I've been hooked ever since. Thank you definitely.

Joshua Maples  21:44

We love it. We love it. It's

Tonya Coats  21:46

a great tool. I must say, I've been using it nonstop and finding new ways to use it within different classroom settings. So I'm happy that it's been beneficial to you. And what I do love and appreciate about our task force meeting is watching your perspective about AI change over time. I was honestly, like flabbergasted, watching you come in with a certain little attitude about AI. But then by the end it kind of it kind of developed over time. So in saying that, what professional development or supports do you think English teachers need to effectively integrate AI into their instruction? 

Joshua Maples  22:27

English teachers are going to be the hardest, right? The English teachers are the ones who are going to be the most resistant to anything, anything that has to do with interfere what they will see as interfering in writing process. I wish I had a better answer for you on that. To be honest, I think that for the first thing that I intend to do when you know, and if it's this school year, I'm not sure we need to have still a lot of conversations about this that I start discussing this with different departments, is just showing them one school, one tool at a time, and not starting with generative, because that's what scares everyone. And you know, sometimes you get that, like clutter blindness or or decision fatigue, of having too many tools. And so showing them something that's kind of maybe a little bit less frightening, right? So showing the podcast tool, I think, to a lot of skeptical teachers, everybody would, you know, the robots are coming and they're going to take over, because it's so impressively artificially intelligent, right? And so, and I had one person I showed it to tell me that she found it legitimately scary, and she was kind of afraid to use it. And so show them something more, like school AI, with a really, really simple prompt. You know, that maybe we'll even get things wrong occasionally because the prompt is too simple, just to not scare them as much. And then kind of build on that, you know, and then, as they see the value in it, say, hey, guess what? If you write a two paragraph prompt, it's really going to be good, you know,

Tonya Coats  23:54

I do like that approach, starting off with baby steps. And I will say, over the last, you know, few months, English teachers have been the most skeptical across our county in regards of utilizing these tools. So hopefully, you know, we can, like, bring them on little by little. But I love the way you're thinking, maybe starting them off small, and then kind of guiding them through that process, 

Joshua Maples  24:20

oh no, I was just going to say and then using, showing them the value and using them for the pieces that we don't want to get mired down in, right? So one thing that I did try after, I think it was after our focus group. Yeah, it was after our focus group. I had a group of kids that I had pulled to work in a smaller group to another classroom, and they were struggling. They were some of our higher performing kids that they were getting really mired in the process of developing research questions from a topic, and I was it wasn't even planning to do this, but I turned around and said, Let's, let's ask the SMART Board. And I pulled up Gemini, and I had it start generating research questions. I said, this is fine. This is I wouldn't have a problem with you guys doing this, because that doesn't affect that final outcome where I need to see that. You can argue, right, that you are considering your audience and task and purpose and tone and maintaining academic language is, I don't care if AI can do that. I care if you can do that part. But the idea part

Sonal Patel  25:11

that was beautiful. I think that that was just such a good response to the last question that we had for you. You know, it's particularly because you addressed kind of the ethical implication aspect of it, right? Like, what are you using for? Exactly, when you were at that task force, we had this whole conversation about, who thinks it's okay to write a two paragraph essay, where, because the student didn't have time, right? Using chat GPT, you know? And then we asked a lot of questions like, what was the learning intention? And, you know, what? What was the purpose of this assignment? You know, did the student have you know, we didn't have all of the knowledge, but to answer that question. But there are things that we need to think about for sure, and hopefully we'll get, you know, high school teachers will start to think about AI in different ways. I tell you my daughter, she comes home, and when she does use chatgpt to break down math word problems, it's okay, because she wants to really understand that. But whenever I suggest that she uses it for a particular English assignment, as she said, No way, Mom, my high school teacher, no way she will my English teacher, she will know she can detect it herself. She'll kill me. And so, you know the it's very different. And hopefully, you know, in the future, there'll be a different reaction to the way students start to utilize these tools, and there'll be different conversations happening in the classroom. And you're a great example of just, you know, trying to get your feet wet in this and trying to understand implications if we don't kind of move forward with thinking about ways in which we can not only utilize AI, but also educate our students with the responsible use case. So thank you so much. And actually, before we actually end, first of all, Josh, are you good if you feel like you've addressed everything that you've answered, you know there's nothing else you want to add to that good. Because I did leave out the fun question that I normally ask at the beginning, so I'm actually going to go back to that question and ask you to please share as we end today one bit or bite that people may be intrigued to learn about you. Well, I think

Joshua Maples  27:10

it's fun that that I came in seeming a skeptic and maybe a Luddite, but just by my initial attitude. But if I weren't a teacher, I would have been a coder. And I took some I took an introductory course on Udacity before I became a full time teacher, and that was the career that I wanted to do at the time. Yeah, and I taught myself how to program in basic on an Apple two computer when I was eight years old. So technology is not, you know, it's not something that's foreign to me. It's just when the ethics of using technology as an educator, that's what threw my mind into the blender with this whole thing.

Sonal Patel  27:44

Yeah, yeah. That is awesome. I love that. Thank you for sharing. Wow. You a future. You know, if you are interested in any computer science experiences, Tonya is the queen of CS integration. So we'll get about that and get you, you know, perhaps, involved in some of those experiences that you might get. Were you thinking the same, Tonya, you're like, Yes,

Tonya Coats  28:02

I was gonna, I was like, I'm gonna send you a flyer. Josh,

Sonal Patel  28:04

you know, we talked a lot about the whole demystification of AI that involves very much that computational thinking skills, the, you know, the knowledge that we should have about how AI and technology, you know, machines today are built, right that we should have some, some kind of basic and foundational knowledge about that. So that will, I think some of Tonya's amazing professional developments will, will definitely help you with that. So we'll get in touch and before we end again, before I thank you. I do, do want to ask if you have a way for people to get in contact with you, or do you want people I know that you said you weren't a social media person is this idea to everyone? You don't have to No,

Joshua Maples  28:44

it's okay. It's okay. I do keep my social media presence basically zero, but I can be contacted. So I work at snowline Joint Unified School District. Some email is joshua_maples@snowlineschools.com

Sonal Patel  28:54

Awesome, and we'll make sure we add it in the the podcast notes as well. I want to say thank you so much for being here with us today. You know you were we loved the conversations that we had with you at the AI Task Force, and we just really wanted to continue that today. And you just you totally rocked it. What do you think? Tonya

Tonya Coats  29:18

I agree. Josh. I loved spending time with you and all the teachers in your district, and I just can't wait to see where this work takes us next. Yeah, thank you so

Joshua Maples  29:26

much. I'm excited to have the ongoing conversation. Thank you guys.

Sonal Patel  29:30

Awesome. Thank you. Join us next time for more bits and bytes of digital learning and computer science. And remember, if you're hungry for more, you can simply text DLS news to 22828, or find us on Twitter at sbcss_Edtech,