When Algorithms Decide What You’re Worth | Ep 299

We trade real driver stories from busy nights on the road, then dig into how policy, algorithms, and safety risks shape what gig workers actually earn. We debate Seattle’s pay law, Uber’s upfront pricing backlash in Hawaii, and what it means when platforms push narratives that don’t match driver experience.

• Road stories that show the weird and human side of rideshare
• Seattle minimum pay study results for app-based delivery workers
• Platform pushback from Uber and DoorDash and what it signals
• Amazon delivery video that highlights delivery safety risks
• A DoorDash customer note that turns food theft into comedy
• Cybertruck high-mileage economics and a $7,200 repair surprise
• Lawsuit over a DoorDash crash and the contractor vs employee fight
• DoorDash tip messages and why “trying too hard” can backfire
• Hawaii drivers claiming Uber AI and upfront pricing reduce pay clarity
• Practical math for evaluating rides by time and distance
• Drift air freshener talk and why riders notice car scent
• Uber’s EV charging partnerships and skepticism about follow-through
• Passenger front-seat etiquette and what makes drivers uneasy
• Nashville attempted carjacking story and self-protection realities
• Colorado rideshare safety bill and what new requirements could change

Transcript

Welcome And Road Stories

SPEAKER_00 0:13

All right. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Gig Economy Podcast. We are on episode 299. It's hard to believe that we are at 299, and I don't think we've even really discussed what we're going to do for 300. But if you are a listener to the show, we would love to have you tune in next week for the 300th episode of the show. So tonight we're going to be talking about uh Seattle proves gig pay works. Uh Uber and DoorDash are pushing back, and driver lawsuits as always, and a cyber truck shock. So uh as you can see, Jason is off for the night, and I have the pleasure of hosting tonight with my good friend Gabe. Gabe, how are you doing tonight?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

I'm good. How are you, Larry?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

I am doing well. It's good to have you back on the show. I know you were on just a few weeks ago, but uh Jason needed to take a night off. And Gabe was uh kind enough to step up into the to the microphone and and agree to co-host with me tonight. So thank you for coming aboard. Uh I know you're out grinding hard with the end of the school year coming. This college kids are keeping you busy and driving you crazy. You have any stories from the road this week you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Um, well, I had that one I was telling you earlier. I picked up a girl and I was talking about how I was I'm overstimulated because of how busy it is. And uh she was like, Yeah, I wish I had a car, and I was like, Oh yeah, and she was like, I used to be homeless. Like that was the next sentence, and I was just like what a segue. Like, I didn't know how to respond. And then she was like, 'cause I hate I hate living in my apartment. I'd live in my car, and I'm like, like uh for the first time I was speechless, like I didn't know what to say. Yeah, like what what do you say to that? Um, and so I was just like, Yeah, and I'm like, So you have any big plans for the day? Like that was my my segue of like changing the subject.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I mean, that's as good as anything, I think, because I mean I don't know how you really respond to that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yep. Um, and then just like I did have a good conversation with uh one guy um that um he was talking to me about like you know, can you really do good at this? And I said, if you're disciplined, you can. I said, why? And he goes, Well, I'm graduating with my master's, and you probably make more than me than I will coming out of school. And I was like, Teachers don't get paid enough.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

No, my wife's a teacher, I know that for sure. Yeah, they do not, they do not get paid enough for what they do. All right, um any more any other stories or anything throughout the week?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

No, no, if everybody's in uh Bradlow mode because they're all graduating, they're all packing. I did have one girl, I felt bad for her. Her uh her suitcases were heavier than her. Oh and she was trying to lift them and come down the stairs, so I had to go help her and load them up in the car, and then she was like, Do you think they're over limit? And I was like, Yeah, probably. Yeah. She was like, My dad's gonna kill me. I came with two suitcases, and she had she had three suitcases and two big duffel bags. Like, I I don't understand how they leave with so much stuff, but uh get that some of that retail therapy, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Okay, so yeah, I actually went out Saturday night. Uh it's first Saturday night I've really worked in in a while, and uh they ran my butt ragged. It was uh there's several things going on in town. There's a big Corvette uh homecoming uh our event that people come in for all over the country. Uh that was going on. There was, I know there was a minor league baseball game in town. There was uh it was Greek week for the Greeks at WKU, so they were having their spring sing Saturday night. So uh just masses of people walking around all over downtown. The funniest ride probably I had that night was that happened about three o'clock in the morning. I picked up this guy from a little bar and they closed at two. I don't know how he was still there at three, but anyway, he was. So I picked him up and uh at three o'clock, he gets in, and he's going to the other side of town, so it's gonna be a good, you know, 15, 20 minute drive. He gets in and he and he I forget what country he mumbled that he was from, but he spoke Spanish. And he's like, Oh, I I bet he'd drunk, I bet he drunk. I'm like, Yes, you are. I agree, you are very drunk. And he kept trying to have a conversation with me. And I'm thinking, dude, you're drunk, you speak a different language, just chill out, dude. Just you know, but he kept on, he kept on, and and then he started asking over and over again. He's like, Trump, trunk. I'm like, what I don't I don't know what you're saying, man. I'm sorry. He's like, Trump, trunk, you like Trump? I'm like, my trunk? I mean, it's a camera, it's got a pretty good trunk. Is that he's like, no, no, he's like shaking his head, he's like, No, no, you like, you like a president Trump. I'm like, oh no, no, no, no. We're not having this conversation at three in the morning with somebody that speaks a different language and is drunk. We're not having a political discussion. That's not happening. So I just turned the radio up a little bit more and he finally quieted down back there. Oh, and then the um uh the only other other kind of funny stories, you know, I use drift. We'll talk about it a little more later as an air freshener. You're using it now, right? Um yeah, using it. So anyway, I got a new scent in um a few days ago. So I opened it up Saturday and put it up, and it almost smells like a man's cologne. Smells and and which one? Which one did you get? I don't even look at them, I don't even look at the names anymore. I just open it and pop it up there. But it looks like I got a new one.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Did you I got a new one?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

And I does it smell like a men's cologne.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

I don't know what the hell it smells like. It smells like morning and laundry soap at a baby.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah, so anyway, I had had two people. One one was a college girl, and she got in and she's like, Oh my gosh, your car smells delicious. And I was like, Yeah, I try to keep it smelling pretty good. Yeah, I usually show them the little drift thing. And then later on that night, I picked up a lady from a convenience store. She she worked at the convenience store, and she was probably maybe just a couple years younger than me. And she got in and and she's like, What is that smell? She's like, Is that your cologne? And I'm like, no. And uh and she's she's been a little flirty. And uh she's like, Oh my goodness I thought that was your cologne. That smells so good. I was like, No, it's this little little piece of wood, it's called drift. You know, I use it, try to you know I get a lot of compliments on it. She's like, That's the best thing I've smelled in a long time. I think I'd sleep with that. And I'm like, okay. Time to change the topic.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

You're you're always getting offers there, though.

Seattle Minimum Pay Results

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Oh my goodness. Uh anyway. Um, so I think that's that's the only really big stories I had, but uh it was good to get back out. It was one of those days. I think I put this in the chat. I haven't done a ton of gig work this year, but it was one of those days that really made me remember why I love gig work. You know, just had some really good conversations with people. Most of the ride offers I got were were pretty good. Lyft tries to slip in, uh, you know, horrible ones every now and then. Uh we've learned by now not to take any long distance rides. I got probably, I know uh three offers to go to Nashville and two to go, two or three to go to Louisville. They're wanting to send me to Louisville for like 60, 60 bucks, 65 bucks. And that's I mean, it's 125, 130 miles. I'm like, you're out of your mind, uh, not doing that. But Lyft was hopping. It was just hopping. Um kept had rides queued up pretty much all night long. So yeah, it was a good night and uh kind of got me the itch to get back out and do, you know, do a little more gig work than I've been doing here recently. All right, moving on to uh gig economy in the news. Our first story tonight we're talking about is we've talked a lot about Seattle and the work they've done out there in the last couple of years. It's kind of been one of the testing grounds for some of these laws that they've tried to pass for guaranteed pay and um you know the the battle between are they are they employed by the company, are they are they a independent contractor, or anyways, but they did pass a gig worker pay law, and so they've done a study on it now. Uh a couple people in different organizations have done a study on it, but this one specifically saying that according to their research, the minimum pay rates for app-based delivery workers has has risen uh over the last you know two years. So that workers are earning more uh order volume has gone up and demand is held steady during the first 18 months of the ordinance, uh, even though you know prices have gone up. It covers uh this law covers, they said 92,000 workers. Of course, Instacart, DoorDash, Uber Eats, all these companies, all these gig companies are pushing back and saying, you know, they don't agree with it. They did their own study, which says uh that uh you know it's not working and that uh people are getting less work and less pay. But anyway, uh the study that supposedly it's the most comprehensive study that's been done shows that gig work is up um it's up to 15, they're averaging, I guess,$15.98 an hour up from up from what it was before, uh, at least several dollars worth. Said weekly completed offers grew 3.2% over the same period. Tips and bonuses made up a smaller share of earnings with base pay now, accounting for most of the compensation. Uh so some of the companies there changed their apps to discourage tipping after the ordinance took effect, which doesn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

So DoorDash, you know, push back. They said that according to them, you know, not only did the law fail to deliver for DoorDashers, it devastated local businesses, which missed out on millions in sales and drove up costs for consumers. They say that Seattle drivers earn more than 20 20% less per hour uh in 2024 than they did, and said Seattle consumers pay the highest delivery fees in the country more than 3.5 times the average in comparable cities such as Denver, Portland, and San Francisco. So, like most things, you get completely, you know, uh 180-degree different views depending on who you're talking to on that.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Well, I think that any company is gonna try to play it down.

Delivery Driver Gun Scare

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Of course, yeah, yeah. I mean, uh they fought it really hard. They spent a lot of money uh trying to, you know, trying to get that, uh keep that from being passed. I mean, I forget what how many millions of dollars they spent, you know, trying to fight that, but uh they they do that pretty much anywhere they this kind of uh legislation comes up, they will pour a lot of money into it. But um it seems like you know, depending on uh according to this study, it's really it's working out for the gig workers. So I hope that's the case. I really do. We're always uh always hoping that our our brethren and you know, out and about in different markets um don't get affected too badly by these laws that pass out there. All right. Uh next up, Gabe, I think we're gonna you want to show the video here first and then we can discuss afterwards. So yeah, go ahead. Yeah, this is a uh this is a uh Amazon driver having uh having a rough delivery.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Larry, I can't hear you.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

You good?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Oh, I can hear you now. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

You want to you want to talk about for our audio listeners, um you want to talk about just kind of what they missed uh you know in that video?

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah, so there's an Amazon delivery driver. Uh he looked like he walked up to the front and then decided that maybe it probably set in the app to deliver it to a rear door um and started to go to the back and then noticed a guy with a gun, ran back to his car, and you see the guy walk out. Um he ends up going back in, and right where you stopped the video, the guy is coming up with his hands up because the cops have come now.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Um like I couldn't even imagine that's why I don't do Amazon Flex at night. I would in the early morning.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

I would not, I would not, just because of that exact reason. I just don't I don't think it would uh I would just be nervous about it because yeah, you mean it you get some guy like that that just you know have an itchy finger and it's all over.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Like and like Polka, Polka had a guy pull a gun on her, yeah, you know, a couple years was it five years ago when Amazon Flex started going later into the evening, and she was scared shit, you know, like she didn't know what to do.

How Patreon Keeps The Show Running

DoorDash Note That Roasts Larry

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, and uh I'm sure it happens, you know, more than we hear about. Yeah, I just uh this um since shields up my spine, I would not want to be doing that. That would oh man, that would wake you up in a heartbeat. Oh goodness. Want to talk about our Patreon memberships. Um, if you enjoy the show and you would like to help contribute to uh just kind of defraying the cost of the show and join our Patreon, we would really appreciate that. You can go to patreon.com and search for the Gig Economy Podcast. We offer uh three different memberships. We have a three-dollar, which is uh we call I'll tip you in the app, a seven dollar membership called Unicorn Trip, and then a$15 a month called Fleet Boss. If you do the um$7 up, you get a free piece of merch after your third month of being a member. We also offer a seven-day membership, so you can try it out, and then if you don't like it, you can cancel it for those seven days. But we really hope that you do enjoy it and that you will continue to be a Patreon. And I just want to say thanks real quick to our Patreon members Samson, Bud, Omar, Frank, Tom, Jim, Miguel, Linda, Jerry, Faith, Metal Kickass, Anna, and a special shout out to Thomas Grayson, who's our newest Patreon. Uh Thomas, we hope you're enjoying the show. And if you want, shoot us an email or um if you have a chance to watch the show live, you know, shoot us a message in the chat, just let us know you're on and uh we'd like to connect with you a little bit. All right. Uh moving on, our next video, and Jason assigned this to me specifically, I know, because that's just the way he is. But anyway, this is uh this is uh somebody getting a send us, I guess, a message to their delivery driver to make sure that they get their food.

SPEAKER_04 15:19

So this was a door dash request. So the person wrote, When you get to my stoop, please press 5B on the buzzer and wait for me to come down. If there's a big dude sitting on the steps claiming the food is his, do not believe him. That's Larry. Please look him dead in the eye and say, F you, Larry. He has successfully hijacked my dinner on two separate occasions, and I refuse to let him feast on my dime a third time. Protect the bag and I'll tip you extra.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

That's just funny.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

F you Larry.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Look him in the eyes. I would laugh at that one. Larry was death, Larry.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

Just stand there waiting for people's food. Larry's a piece of sh.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Thanks, Jason. I appreciate it. I love you too, man. Oh, yeah. I can I can just see that. Yeah. Some dude sitting on a stoop just just uh stealing people's food as it gets delivered. Oh my goodness. Uh just check in the go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

I say I love that he just called him out like that.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah. Yeah, look him dead in the eye. And say, fuck you, Larry. Yeah, exactly. Oh my goodness. Uh, let's see. Uh looks like we got a spammer in the chat.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

All right, we're branding that person. And uh just want to say hi to everybody in the chat. Steve, we appreciate you always Bubba Sue. Uh, let's see who else is on.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

See you, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Uh I'm not sure who else is on. But anyway, uh Steve, I am not ignoring you. You know, I'm running the sh the board since Jason's not here, so I'm not used to doing that. So it keeps me busy, so I don't really look at the chat too much when I'm doing that. So I'm really not ignoring all the comments. Uh, I usually try to interact as much as I can with people in the chat. But we appreciate all of you tuning in. I know you're I know you've been answering everything.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Uh I was thrown off by the spammer because I have the YouTube upright and I can see it, but I can't see them commenting on the YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I can only see them in the live, like on our right, on our stream yard, yeah. Yeah, and I'm like, what is like I thought I was losing that. So I keep scrolling and I'm like, wait, no, they did say something.

Cybertruck Reality Check For Drivers

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, all right. Well, we appreciate all of you tuning in and and being in the chat. Uh, it always makes it a lot more fun when we have people to chat with. All right, up next, um, Gabe, Gabe's gonna talk about uh a Cybertruck.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, so we have a lift driver who uh did a hundred thousand miles with his Cybertruck and got hit with a$7,200 repair bill. So apparently the Cybertruck's power conversion system failed, um, and it was an out-of-warranty bill. Um, so$7,200. Uh and basically what he said is because of that, it lowered his savings. He would have had about$17,700, so almost$18,000 worth of savings uh for those hundred thousand miles versus if he was to have used gas. So I he still he still pocketed a lot of money if you think about it. Like, granted, yeah, I get the uh cost of the the battery, but you know, he still pocketed almost what like nine, ten, ten thousand dollars in savings.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Um that's understanding.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Which I'm sure Yeah, so you know, I I I get it. The fuel savings is there if you drive an EV, definitely. Um, but that's kind of you know the trade-off, right? Is you're gonna go with the cost of a battery. That's the most expensive thing on an EV vehicle to get repaired if it's not covered under warranty.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Yeah. And um he did a hundred thousand miles in a year.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah, a year.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, this is one year.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

That's I I think I think the most I've ever hit is like sixty five, almost seventy thousand in a year.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Oh, yeah. See, yeah. I think uh I think the most I've ever done is probably forty, right around forty. Uh I can't imagine doing a hundred. That's a that's a lot of time on the road. That's a lot of charging for him.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I just can't yeah, I I wanna I want to know what they look like on the inside. I'm still, I'm still like, because to me it it's the ugliest thing ever. The cyber.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

I know my wife hates him. Every time we see one, I was like, oh, there's my next car, baby. She's like, you're not getting one of those. I'm like, I can no, I'm not getting one of those, but I just like to tease her about it. But yeah, yeah, I mean, you you wonder sometimes uh what they were thinking when they designed it, but I don't know. But yeah, I'd like to see the inside. I'd like to ride one one time just for the heck of it, just to see how it rides or like I said, see what the inside looks like and all that. But I don't know, maybe we'll rent one sometime. Yeah.

unknown 20:16

All right.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

I wish you luck on that. Take pictures and send it to me.

Who Pays After A Delivery Crash

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Exactly. I will. I'll do a little video. All right. Uh next up we're gonna be talking about um uh Sandy, uh San Angelo, Texas mother, Suze DoorDash, uh, over a crash. And this you know, we've had similar stories like this in the in the past. This woman and her two, she had two minor kids. They were uh got they got rear-ended uh by someone who was doing a door dash delivery. So it was a couple years ago. Uh um said she was stopped at a traffic signal when um this door dash driver hit her in the rear end uh and said the lawsuit claims that the the driver uh let's see, what was her name? Uh Renee Johns, Clea Renee Johns said Johns was negligent for failing to keep a proper lookout. Uh timely applier breaks, take evacu, take evasive action or use due caution or control her speed. They're suing for um monetary damages over a million dollars, plus pre and post-judgment interest and court costs. Of course, DoorDash has filed its answer um saying that John's is not an employee or servant and then has exercises no control over her. So what's your thoughts on that, Gabe?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

I don't think it's door, it's not on DoorDash. I think it's you know, it's on that other driver. We have to maintain our own insurance. You know, they can't control. They they have those safety things set up that monitor. I don't know if I turn mine off where it shows, you know, if speeding or braking. Um, you know, they put everything on there. The only thing It it's one of those things where like if somebody said, Well, you know, Dorash, well, we give them this, well, then if you see that they're constantly speeding or braking, then why do you have them on the platform? Right. Like so it's one of those things where it's just like it kind of depends, but you're an independent contractor. It's not their vehicle. It's you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Right. And and that's we've debated it, you know, or talked about it a few times. Uh if they've, you know, if they've done the things that they're supposed to, and they've done background checks and and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, you can't, you know, you can't control people. People are human, people are gonna have wrecks, people are gonna rear-end people, you know, that's gonna happen. So I I agree. I think it tends to, you know, it's gonna it should fall on the the dasher, not the company.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah, and they have insurance unless they don't have insurance, and that's why they're trying to go after DoorDash.

Tip Texts That Try Too Hard

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah. I'm sure the lawyer uh, I mean, they always want to go after the deep pockets, so you know, just yeah, let's see what you know, throw it up there and see what sticks. All right. Uh next up, um, let's see. This um yeah, these these are these are a couple of messages, I guess, that uh uh delivery person uh sends out to people, and uh we'll throw we'll throw the first one up on the screen.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

And yep, so uh this is uh from a DoorDasher, and they message this to the customer, and it says, good news from the front lines, Mama T has officially been assigned and is now in motion with the focus of a woman who's raised kids, paid bills, and survived at least one emotional sport coffee. Your order is in progress, things are happening, and somewhere between point A and point B, I will absolutely be rooting for you and your order. While we wait, a judge reminder you are loved, valued, and appreciated, even if today tried to take you out at the knees. If this delivery makes your day easier or sneaks a smile onto your face, the kindness of a generous tip and a sparkly five-star rating is always appreciated. With hustle, heart, and a dash of chaos, mama T.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

All right, here's the next one.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Uh, your order has landed safely at your door, fully intact, and without me accidentally adopting someone else's groceries, though it was tempting. If this made you smile, spared you from cooking, or kept you from answering the essential question of what's for dinner, a good tip and a glittery five-star rating would make my chaos fueled heart very happy.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Um, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 24:38

I think it's way too much. It is way too much.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

That's extra, man. That is way extra.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Like, I I think you know, I enjoy the memes that some drivers send. Sure. Uh it's it's funny and it, you know, it gets the point across, but like this is overkill.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

It's uh it's out there, man. It is uh yeah, you know, just something short, like a little short, something funny or something like that, but like three or four or five paragraphs, that that's a lot, you know. I think that is a lot.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

And you're like, you keep saying like generous tip, yeah, you know, rate me five star. Like I had the perfect handoff the other day. I was going to my mom's to help her. I ordered some food, it got there right as I pulled in. He pulled in after me, he came up, and I was like, Man, you're quick. And he goes, I try my best. And he goes, if you like the service, give me a five-star, and he was gone. Like it was simple and quick, and I appreciated his efficiency.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah, and and that's uh, I think most people would resonate with that and more than they would uh, you know, a five-paragraph note. But that's just me, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, I I think I think this she's seems like she's just maybe trying a little too hard. I don't know. Um, but it may work for her, you know. I don't know. It'd be interested to see how well she does with her tips, you know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Yeah. I guess I I would like to see how many add-on tips.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

I don't know. I I feel like we need a guinea pig. I feel like Susan should do this. She should do some DoorDashes and Uber Eats, and she should write out something like this, and then let us know.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Okay. You've just been volunteered. Uh is she watching tonight? Is she in the chat?

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yeah, she's probably cussing me out right now, giving me the finger, flipping me off.

Uber Upfront Pricing Complaints In Hawaii

SPEAKER_00 26:39

She's like, you just added to her stress level. What's going on? All righty, moving on. Um all right. This next article talks about uh Hawaii drivers saying that Uber AI is shortchanging them. So um, as we've talked about uh ad nauseum, you know, the we used to have a pretty good system where we made a certain percentage of whatever the customer paid. Started out at 80%, and then it went down to 75%, and then it went to the you know time and mileage system where we got paid so much per mile, so much per minute. And that was you know, that worked out pretty good. I was really happy with it because that break notes because I don't know, we had one of the better rates in the country. I used to make a dollar seventeen a mile, and you know, there was no nowhere you could find where explain why why each city had that particular rate. What do you remember what you the rate was there, Gabe?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Oh 81 cents.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

81 cents. So yeah, it's crazy how different it is in different places. I know in Nashville at one point it was like in the 60s, high 60s. So I could go to Nashville and drive and stay super busy and make good money, but I'm putting you know twice the miles on my car as I'm doing if I stay here in Bowling Green. So so anyway, Hawaii was one of the last um places to get, I guess, the upfront pricing, which are they went up to the upfront pricing, which we all know. Uh now they throw it, they throw it up a screen, and you've got about eight seconds to decide whether you want it. And uh the trade-off was now you get to see you know where you're where you're picking them up and where they're going, but you don't know how much you're making per mile. You just have to do the math in your head real quick. And we get pretty good because we do it all the time to know, you know, you you kind of develop a sense whether the ride's worth it or not. Uh, but sometimes you know it can be confusing, especially if you've already got a passenger in the car. You don't want to, you don't want to be staring at the screen while you're driving down a busy highway with a passenger in the car. Uh so it can be a little tricky when that happens. But anyway, so um, you know, this guy that they interviewed in Hawaii, Joseph, said that you know, it used to be a he used to make a pretty good living in Hawaii. Uh he said he used to make you can make$800 or more a week pretty you know really easily. Used to make good money on trips from the airport to Waikiki, uh, which would pay him about$24. He said, now it's really hard. Uh even working seven days, it's hard to make you know as much as he was making back then. As I said, you know, Hawaii was one of the last states to change over to the upfront pricing, which uses an AI algorithm to figure out how much they're going to offer you on every ride. And you can have two drivers you know sitting side by side and get the same ride offered to them, but it'll be at a different price. This, you know, this driver, uh uh, another driver there in Hawaii, Felix Fernandez, that uh said that he used to make between$800 to$1,000 a week and about$30 an hour. He said these days he makes, if he's lucky, between six and eight hundred a week. So a lot of him and a lot of other rideshare drivers in Hawaii are starting to uh you know join other people across the country. He said that they really are you know thinking about whether it's worth it anymore. You know, they have to think every time whether it's worth the trip is worth it because they got to look at the rising cost of gas, you know, insurance is going up, uh, you know, all that sort of stuff, which is really you know hurting the bottom line. And so some of them are starting to petition Hawaii officials to to do what they have in places like you know, Washington State, which we just talked about, in New York City, Massachusetts, some other places like that that have set minimum pay standards, and they require Uber and Lyft to disclose more about how they calculate the driver compensation. As uh Fernandez said, it's not just about the money, we want transparency. You know, that's one thing we've talked about uh a lot over the years. Uh, the transparency, these companies, they're always changing things, constantly changing things. So you can never, just when you, you know, you're kind of figuring out how things work with them, they change it, and they're not transparent. Uh, it was very transparent when you had uh got paid by a mile and by the minute, you knew if it if this is this many miles, that's how much I'm gonna make. You know, you just 117 times whatever mileage I'm going, that's what I'm gonna make. And now it it can vary usually. Um get the same ride, you know, two days in a row, the price that you get offered could could vary greatly. And so it does make it uh harder to always be on the guard and pick those good rides.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yeah, it's almost like you need the boost, the incentive of the boost, or you need a surge to make it worth it, unless you're chasing a quest, right? And you're trying to get a certain amount of rides. But like, even even on the article, you know, it's not bad. Like when you look at the pricing, it you know, it's 8.6 miles from the airport to the drop off, and they were getting like 16. You know, that's all almost$2 a mile.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

For like 22 minutes, give or take.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

You know, I don't I don't know. I to handle the upfront pricing now, I've broken it down to okay, this is what I need to make, this is what I want to make per hour. And then I break it down to okay, like this is gonna take me 20 minutes. If I could do two of these, that puts me over my 30 plus a little one, like I'm way over. It's kind of how you have to do it now.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Right. Yeah, for sure. You have to change as as they change things. You know, that's that's a constant. Uh, you know, if you if you think things are gonna work like they did five years ago, you're not gonna be a successful driver. You know, you're just not.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Yeah, the days of the multiplier are gone.

Drift Air Freshener For Rideshare

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Unfortunately, they are, the the good old days. Yeah. So, you know, Uber again pushes back against it, saying that uh Uber spokesman said that Hawaii drivers earn an average of$38 an hour for when they're you know for time spent on a trip while they're heading, you know, including while they're heading to pick up the rider. It says, of course, Uber doesn't disclose how it weighs different factors at driver pay, but the spokesman says it's based on estimated time to the pickup point, and from there, how long it's gonna take to get to the destination, as well as what the current demand is. Um fares account for whether a particular trip is generally more or less likely to be fulfilled by drivers based on aggregate patterns on similar trips, but not on what an individual driver has accepted in the past. Because that's one of the things that you know in the Facebook groups and different places they talk about a lot. They're like, don't take these low trips because if they see you're gonna take low trips, that's what they're gonna offer you. And I think there's truth to that, but you know, Uber Vennett, you know, they they they deny that, but uh I think it's true personally. All right. I'm gonna talk real quick about drift. We mentioned it in my uh stories from the road. Drift is a uh subscription air freshener model, and uh they got a couple different options options that you can choose from. You have the wood one or the or the slate one, Gabe.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

I have the wood one.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Okay, that's what I have. Yeah, I've got the wood one. It's about$11 a month. Uh, I think Jason got the slate one, and I think it's like sixteen dollars a month or something. But anyway, I've used it for probably four or five years now, and I get compliments all the time about how good my car smells. I mean, like I said, I got had two just on Saturday. Um, and me and Jason were discussing two. It's it's funny though, the smell will last, you know, for the whole month till you get another one. But about two weeks in, you get used to it, and I you know, I don't smell it. Then my wife will get in, or a customer will get in. They're like, Oh my god, it smells so good in here, and I can't even I can't even smell it anymore. But anyway, um you don't get two? Two no month? No, I just get one.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

That's why years is eleven. So what they offer now is you get two.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

So I get two cents sent to me.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Yeah, and it's it's about 16.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Um so I got like the the signature one because I do enjoy that. Um, and then they send me their monthly special, which I think this month it's called Daybreak.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Okay, I'll have to look at what mine. I I think I just get the month, uh I get the monthly special, I guess, because mine's different every month. Uh because Jason, yeah, he's he was like, oh man, he's like, I'm kind of disappointed. I got the same one two months in a row. I'm like, I've never gotten the same one. I don't know if I've ever gotten the same one twice, much less two months in a row. I know I've not gotten the same one two months in a row.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Yeah, I I got the one of them is the same because it's the one I picked.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Um, and then the other one is that whatever their monthly is. And daybreak, like I said, is like morning, like fresh out of the shower, morning, fresh air with like laundry soap. Like it smells good. It just at first, you know, when you open them and you put them in your car, it's like right there. It hits you in the face every time you sit down.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

It's it's a little it's a little pungent at first. Um, but now like I've gotten compliments where people are like, your car smells so good.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Yes, yeah, that you will get lots of those. So do you pick a scent every month?

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Uh no, I have it set on auto. So mine is the uh the standard one, and then I get uh whatever their monthly is.

Uber’s EV Charging Power Play

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Okay, yeah. See, I when I joined it a long time ago, they didn't have the I don't think they had that option. Um, that must be something newer. But yeah, I just get whatever I guess their their monthly special scent is for the month because it's different every month. I don't ever do anything. Um, but anyway, if you're interested, you'd like to try it. Um it they they are they do smell really, really good. You if you're a ride share driver, you'll get lots of compliments in your car. If you if you don't do ride share, if you do um uh food delivery, or you just want it for your personal car, we do have links in uh the show description, the show notes. Uh you can sign up through there and uh you know, give it a try. Um if you don't like it, you can always cancel the subscription. But like I said, it's just like 11 bucks a month, and I guarantee you that you will enjoy the scent. All right. Uh next up, let's see. Uh Uber says it has a superpower to boost EV charging growth.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

I I think Uber thinks that they carry more weight than what they actually do. So basically, uh Uber is saying that they're gonna take more of an active role in deciding where new charging stations should be built and how efficiently they're managed. So they're brokering d dozens of deals worldwide to bring vehicles right to the platform. Um, and with that they want to address you know, having chargers available, so they're aiding the build out of where these stations are. Um and like if you when you read the article, it says that you know they have so much data uh when it comes to electric vehicles, that's their superpower. And they basically said we're using that data to essentially tell us where charging needs to be. Um but then it says they're gonna team up with like EVGO or they team up with Presto, which is is great, right? Because it lists the chargers, but they're not, you know, the companies who are putting the chargers around are on the hook for building them and putting the money into it. And so I I think that they want to use their data basically to brokerage deals with these companies and partnerships. Yeah, stealing from drivers, as Susan says. Well, and I think other companies too. Um so basically in February Uber announced that they have a hundred million dollar investment in building public fast charging stations. Where it's gonna partner with EVGo in the US and then uh an uh INT in Europe. And I would love to see that happen. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think you're ever gonna come across a charger that has Uber's name on it.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

You don't think so? With all their push toward their robo taxis and you know, Eevee and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

No, I think they'll they'll brokerage deals maybe they might get there in partnership with. Yeah. But I I think they're gonna utilize like Charge Point and EVGo and other companies and try to invest money that way so they don't have to be on the hook if for some reason it it falls apart. We all watched Uber over the years, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

It it's never about what like what have they actually built. It's always about using other people's stuff.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Yeah, uh it has always been that way, but now uh counterboard, they are you know, now they're building, they're actually building these, you know, starting to build these autonomous cars. And it's it's it is it's weird to see them shifting toward actually they're gonna have some of this stuff, and it's gonna be interesting to see how it all works out. How they're gonna, you know, how are they gonna charge these robo taxis or who's gonna clean them and all that kind of stuff, and are they gonna own them still?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Well, and that's the thing though, it's it's being stress tested. You know, that's what the article says by rivals and investors alike where their stock is down 10% already this year.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

You know, and the threat from Tesla is looming or Elon Musk's company builds its own robo taxis. So I don't know. I I just don't see they've never wanted to invest money in things. So as far okay, like get a station set up, let's say. Yeah, who's gonna fix it? Are they gonna spend money into it? Like I go to some of these stations and they're trash. You know, there's some really good ones around to maintain that. Like, look at the Uber hubs, they had those everywhere, right? And then look at them, they fell apart and they didn't want to maintain them.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yep, closed them all up. Yeah, I uh I can't argue with you. Uh you know, I would I would not be surprised if they just focus on uh partnerships. Um, because that's what they you know that's what they've seemed to have have done with most people. You know, they they form partnerships with delivery companies, they form partnerships with car companies, they form partnerships with you know, octopus tablet, you know, they form partnerships with all these different different things. And uh so yeah, it'd be it'd be interesting to see how it all shakes out. You know, the with the gas costs going back up, you know, the the pendulum was kind of shifting back, you know, for for you know, we were on the on on the gas-powered vehicles, and then there, you know, we started getting into the uh electric vehicles there, and then you know, the new administration came in, it kind of shifted back to the gas cars now with this, you know, the war going on and the gas prices up, it's kind of shifting back toward the other way for a little bit. So yeah, we'll see how it ends up.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Oh, it's a major shift. Like, you know, here in Michigan, it's almost five dollars, like$4.99. Yeah. Over in Jason's area, it's like$460 here in my market.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yeah. Yeah. Face paying, what, five and a half out in California?

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Yeah.

Front Seat Etiquette And Driver Safety

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Crazy. Crazy, crazy. Okay. Uh this next video we're gonna show, it's just gonna show uh uh it's about a two-minute video, Uber driver just going on a little bit of a rant.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

Okay, so I had to pull over to ask this question because it has been annoying the fuck out of me. I was gonna direct this towards one group of people because they have been the only ones who do this. What give you the unmitigated gall to call a ride share, and when they pull up, you come outside. This person has blackout windows, they are completely fishbowled out. Fishbowl means your windows are completely black. You come to the passenger door and open the door, and you yank it open too. What the fuck gives you the thought, the idea, the the carcassity to think that you are gonna bitch. This not your best friend picking you up. This ain't your cousin. This ain't your mom and your daddy. This ain't your brother and sister. This is no one you know. Everyone knows. Ride share, go in the back fucking seat. For you to sit next to me, that is a rare occurrence. I needed the the I wanted the ride, and then it's a few of y'all in here. But bitch, if it's just you and your girl, why the fuck would you think I want to sit next to you? I need answers. I need to understand what is it about y'all that thinks that shit like that is fucking acceptable. And it's only y'all.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Oh goodness. The caucusity. I like that. That's that cracked me up. Oh goodness. So uh my thoughts on this first couple things. First of all, I I've never understood the people who are like, oh, I don't want nobody in my front seat. I I don't care where they sit. But it does amaze me how many times a guy and a girl will come out and the girl gets in the back and the doodle sit up front, or sometimes the doodle sets in the back, and the and that's even weirder when the dude sits in the back and then the girl gets up front and sits right next to me. That that that I don't understand at all. I at all. But somebody just coming in if it's a one person, they someone sit in the front seat. I that doesn't I don't I don't understand why it bothers people, but you know, different strokes for different folks.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

It it doesn't bother me. I've had some older folk that will sit in the front. It's easier for them to get in and out of the car. That's fine. Yeah. Uh today I today I had a young uh a college student, a girl. I pulled up and she like popped open the front and and then she like I just kind of was like looking at her because usually a good majority of everyone sits in the back.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Um, and she she's like, Oh, is this okay? I said, Yeah, I don't you can sit anywhere you want in the car, you just can't sit in the driver's seat.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Like just can't sit in my lap.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

You know, like that's what I always say jokingly. Um, it does not bother me, but I have seen other drivers that have that front passenger seat all the way up against the dashboard.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Oh, I've people have hopefully have like a box or something sitting up there so people won't sit in there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and you know, I mean, I know that that's definitely against the terms of service. You're supposed to have your your seats are supposed to all be available. Um yeah, I don't know. I guess if uh if if it's your thing or you're looking you know you feel uncomfortable with them sitting up there, but I mean I I feel I mean I'm much safer with them sitting up there than they are sitting behind you, you know. So I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

I don't yeah, I I get weirded out when it's one person and they choose to sit right behind me. Yeah, that that especially than I would anywhere else in the car.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Yeah, yeah, especially uh if it's late at night and some dude gets in and sits right behind you, that will make me uncomfortable for sure. And I'm I'm extra alert uh when that happens, and you know, then I'm I'm keeping keeping an eye on what's going on for sure and being aware of the surroundings and what's going on, what they're doing back there. Um that's one of the reasons I like my LED lights, because it lights up the interior of the car a little bit so I can see what they're doing back there, you know, a little bit. Whereas if not, it's just pretty dark and you can't really tell what's going on. But um, yeah, like I said, it the the the weirdest one for me is when a guy and a girl come out and they're a couple, you tell they're a couple, and the guy sits in the back and the girl sits up front. I was like, what what in the what would possess you to do that?

SPEAKER_01 47:42

You know, trying to get trying to get that free Uber ride, Larry.

DoorDash Carjacking Turns Deadly

SPEAKER_00 47:45

I don't know, man. It's not working. Sorry. I don't know. Oh my goodness. All right. Moving on. Uh Gabe's gonna talk about uh DoorDash Driver getting shot. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

Yeah, in Nashville. Um driver. Yeah, he uh so DoorDash Driver shot and killed a suspect um who shot and injured him during an attempted carjacking. So um which I I don't understand, but it maybe because it was busy, but it was one o'clock in the afternoon, and the driver pulled into the Walgreens parking lot, I guess right next to uh the Chick-fil-A uh and parked went to go get the food, came back, and that's when the carjacker jumped in and he pulled a gun, he had a gun. So um what happened was let me go back to it. So he the guy shot the Door Dasher, hitting him in the leg. So then the Door Dasher shot the guy back and fatally, fatally shot. Um and then like I don't I don't know, because I thought you're not supposed to carry right on these platforms or uh it's a gray area a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

It is rare, but uh I mean I'm not gonna Yeah, I'm not gonna say anything.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

You know, um but the Door Dasher was taken to the hospital uh and he was treated and expected to be okay, and then um they did say that right now they don't know if charges are gonna be filed against the DoorDash driver. Which I don't I don't see why they would. He was protecting himself.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Right. I think he I think that's just something they have to say, but I I can't see I can't imagine why he would have any charges uh filed against him if this guy shot at him first. And you know, as far as caring or not carrying on the platform, I'm not gonna say whether I do or not, but I would rather if if it comes down to just think of this situation, it might have saved his life. You know, so he gets kicked off the DoorDash platform, at least he's still here, he's still alive, and he can do something else.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

You know, he well, yeah, because the the carjacker shot him in the leg.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Yeah, um he didn't know, so he should you know he could have been killed.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Yeah. More um well, uh more power to him. And yeah, you know, you never know who's carrying.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

But that's pretty that's pretty bowlsy though. Like I would assume that it's a busy area, right? Yeah. At one o'clock in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Yeah. And uh that's uh another reason I don't do much ride share in Nashville because it gets a little crazy down there, gets a little nuts, you know. Carjackings are not uh uncommon. I mean, it's not, you know, it's not one of the highest crime rate cities by any means, but it's uh it's a lot higher than it is here in Bowling Green. So I just usually stick here in my little little bowling green.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Well, that's why, you know, that happened a lot in Detroit. Yeah. It was on the news, you know, Amazon drivers or Uber drivers coming to stops. So now, you know, there's a it's a running joke where you don't stop, like you slowly roll and keep going. Right.

Colorado Push For Rideshare Safety

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Right. Yeah. I understand why. Yeah, I understand why. All right. Uh last story of the night, we're gonna talk about uh this Colorado lawmaker. She's uh trying once again to pass a rideshare safety bill. So um she's uh Democratic Representative Jenny Willard. She was actually sexually assaulted by a Lyft driver back in 2024 outside of her house. And so she tried to pass a bill, I guess, um uh at their last legislation uh session, and it got turned down, but um, she's trying again. She's changed a few things on it. She said, why the lawsuit against Lyft is moving forward and prosecutors have charged the man with unlawful sexual contact. He still has not been located and has never been arrested. Um so yeah, she first started Tori told her story last year and said she's going to try again this session with a new bill that she introduced just on Monday that seeks to increase requirements for driver background checks. It sets timelines for how long companies have to respond to complaints and provide more opportunities to record rides. She said audio and video recording has to be integrated through the the uh the company platform because we know that consent that we that way we know consent can be verifiable. Um the governor vetoed the the book the uh law last year because he said that it went too far. It had unclear language on audio video recording and inoperable timelines to produce new regulatory rules. And of course, Uber and Lyft uh worked very hard to defeat the bill last year. It was one that Uber actually threatened to leave the state if it did pass and become law, and it was sending its users messages through the app, urging them to get involved and and you know, call their politicians and ask them to vote against it. So, in the new bill, I guess, uh that she's introduced, it says it's it's generally the same, but there are some few changes. She said, why her original bill would have banned drivers from offering food and beverages to passengers? Now those freebies can still be offered, they have to be factory sealed. Uh people would be banned from driving if they have a felony conviction for domestic violence and stalking or menacing, uh, along with any type of unlawful sexual contact conviction, including misdemeanors. Private background checks every six months paid for by the rideshare company, creating a process to share information between the companies about deactivated drivers, uh, setting a rule that companies must respond to subpoena search warrant uh within 72 hours. Both riders and drivers must opt into audio video recording, and companies must submit an annual report to the legislature, attorney general, and public utilities commission on a range of data such as the number of sexual assaults, verbal threats, and physical threats and harassment that have occurred. So yeah, uh I hope I, you know, I I hope I hope they do get this passed. Uh, I hope they were able to work it out. So um anything that you know gives more protection for both riders and drivers, you know, I think I'm for I don't I don't s haven't read anything in her bill that I would really be you know hard set against.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

I guess I I guess I'm confused on why maybe the cost to do the background checks. Um but Uber already does that now where they have implemented in the app where you can opt in to record.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Right. I think she's wanting it to be uh something that everyone has to has to agree to that as part of terms of service to use the app, I think. But then but I guess my question on that would be well who's who's providing the camera or or do we you know does the Uber driver have to provide the camera or is Lyft or Uber because me and Jason have both said we'd still have our own camera. I'm not trusting Uber's camera or Lyft's camera. I'm using my own.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Um I have to run two. But they do it through the phone right now.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

Yeah. It's an option, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

So, you know, I guess as long as it the conversation's recorded.

Final Takeaways And 300th Tease

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Yeah, so uh we'll there'll be one maybe we'll try to keep an eye on this and see how it goes, see if it ends up getting past or if they uh end up, you know, he ends up vetoing it again or how it kind of shakes out. But anyway, well, I want to thank everybody for joining in tonight again. Uh I thanks Gabe for stepping up and to the microphone and and agreeing to co-host. Sorry I didn't get involved in the chat much tonight, but like I said, I'm trying to trying to run the behind the scenes stuff that Jason usually does. And so uh that keeps me busy. I don't want to mess anything up here. But we really do appreciate everyone. Uh again, next week is gonna be our 300th episode. Not sure what we have planned exactly, but I'm sure it'll be fun no matter what. Gabe, any final words before we before we close out? And then uh oh, we do want to invite everybody who's a Patreon. We will be doing a Patreon in nine minutes, so be sure to join that.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Yeah. Um, no, just I think it's for a lot of people that are in college towns, get your grind on and hustle, hustle, hustle.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

Gotta make hay while you can, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

All right. Well, as always, uh, don't put up with anybody's bullshit. And don't be a dick. And we'll see you on the road. Good night, everybody. Thanks for tuning in.