Johnnie Walker Rye Cask!

• Interesting things about the distillery:
  • Johnnie Walker and Sons have been around since roughly 1854. 
  • Johnnie, known as John, owned a grocery store and became known as the guy who could get you things.
  • By things, we mean tea, fine wines, and spirits. 
  • He found his way into the whiskey world by blending the whiskey that he got in
  • Creating something new
  • John passed away in 1857, and his son, Alexander, took over when he was old enough
  • In 1843, with railroads in place, Alexander established a distribution network that shipped his whiskey worldwide. 
  • In 1862, sales averaged 100,000 gallons each year. 
  • “Old Highland Blend” was the first copyrighted blend to hit shelves in 1867
  • Johnnie walker Black label 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

I'd say we should smoke this. Unfortunately for you guys, you didn't pull and rub out. You didn't rub out ahead of time. I'm always eager to rub it out.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

So And what is that?

SPEAKER_03 0:39

That is the Irish Flake.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Dark Fire?

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Yep, Irish Flake. Which is uh a good, strong, natural tobacco. Unlike them artificial cons.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

So, folks, we're we're having a Johnny Walker, one that's no longer available, to my understanding. A JW. Uh, they actually changed up how they do it and what this is, but it's a 10-year-old select casks.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

That's an exciting pour there, Nick.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I know. I really, really excited. A little heavy there. That's a me kind of pour. But this is a rye cask finish, an X-Rye barrel cask finish. So this is not a ry high-wry blend.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

What a treat.

unknown 1:16

That's exciting.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

So it's not like they're Johnny Walker rye.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

No, this is this is what was from Einstein. This was what was before Johnny Walker high-wry. This is what they did.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Okay. And it's not available anymore. I potentially.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

I'm hoping Steve confirms that, but I don't believe it is. It is not.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Okay, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

And the high rye that you have, I don't believe, is 10 years old. I don't believe it. I mean the high rye that I had. Oh, you don't have it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Yeah, that's totally gone. I was gonna tell you I didn't get a chance. That that that was gone like a year and a half ago. They actually didn't last very long, to be honest with you. Did you get that in uh secret? Yeah. Not not the the club one, but the uh the ones with the roommates? Yeah, the the yeah the online one, the nationwide one, yeah. I got that from Benji. Oh. And I drank the crap out of it. Uh at first I was like, uh, but he knows I like rides. Right. And then I was like, this is actually pretty damn good.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Was it better than the uh the Johnny Walker, the the movie one? The um Blade Runner.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

I don't know. Because the thing is that Blade Runner is a black. I don't think it's a double black, it's a black. And you know I like Johnny Walker, double black a lot. I like black too. But um, I don't think that that blade runner one was anything special other than the bottle looks cool, but just a Johnny Walker black in general, I like even more than the rye. Even though I like rye, I just like Johnny Walker black. Double black, especially is my favorite Johnny Walker.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Okay, before you light up, you have to try this guy.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Before I light up. Sounds interesting. Sounds fun. 10 years old. It's a 10 year. Whatever it's a 10-year-old. So their black is normally 10. It says it right on the thing. Yeah. Right on the top of the screw.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

I think the only thing that they do 10 years is black. And then double black is no age statement.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Yeah, right, right. Yeah. Which is interesting, I think. But I like the double black better. Rye cask finish. X rye whiskey casks for a distinctive flavor. What do you think of there? X-Rye.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

It's good. I just had a shiver at the same time. Okay. Yeah, it wasn't that that body movement was unrelated.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Shiver was suspect. Wasn't sure what to think about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Unrelated.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Okay, all right. You know, I'm gonna dip in a second time. I might as well just do it. Like I did last time. I was like, I need another pour.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

So before Steve goes into we've done Johnny Walker on the podcast, but I got really excited when I saw this because it's X-Ry cat, you know, cat rye cask finish. Chris and I've always talked about what would what would happen if you did a bourbon or a scotch and rye barrels, what would happen? That spice, that flavor. Yeah, like a first fill rye. But also, I know that Johnny Walker had their hand. Oh, this would have been 2018. Yeah, 2017, 2018, when I first moved to Columbus. They had their hand in what they called the Blender's Select.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Yeah, Blender Select. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Which they did wine, they did espresso. That one had a pink, like a pink label in the wine one. And then Triple Oak. Is that the Jane Walker? Uh Jane came after that. Yeah, yeah. That sparked the Jane Walker. So that series sparked Jane Walker. But I was hoping that this was either a part of that or came out of that, but I don't think it did. I think this was before it. And Steve might correct me if I'm wrong and all of that.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

I will say on the nose in the glass, it doesn't, it's very not like there's not a whole lot going on. It's very muted.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

But is it Johnny Walker?

SPEAKER_03 4:52

No. What you would expect from that? No, not at all. No, it really doesn't taste smell like much like anything. It just smells like a basic scotch. Like nothing crazy. Like really nondescript.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

So this is actually great that we're having this after we had the the cummings. Um because this is their cardew is their base of that.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Holy cow. Yeah. I was so I put it in the mouth. That's really nice. Put it right in the mouth. Good. And I let it sit in there for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

After we just talked about the cumbings.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

I let it sit in there for a minute. What do they call that? Soaking? Nope. Anyway. No, that's the Amish. Never mind. That's something different. But anyway, I did put it in the mouth, let it sit in there for a minute. And I was like, it's not, this is like nothing. Nothing. It's like nothing. Yeah. And then I swallowed it and I was like, okay. And then all of a sudden, pow, pow, like right in the kisser. Like, and then you get hit with like a two, two, two combo, like two punch combo of like rye and something else I haven't figured out yet. Um the aftertaste, there isn't much other than what's in the chest. But boy, oh boy. I was kind of like bored, bored, this is stupid. I don't like it. And then boom. Like what this is something really different and amazing. And I love that it was like delayed. Delayed. Yeah. It was like that guy at the like the start of a race, and everybody takes off, and you're that guy that sits here for a minute, and then all of a sudden, phew. You're like, well, that guy did have something going on. Like he was just reving his engine or something. I don't know. But it was like nothing, nothing, nothing. Boom, boom, something.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Okay. So you finished your high-rai already before Steve even gets into the history.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

You're good. What are we doing? There's not a ton of history. Okay, okay. Other than what we've already gone over with, Jack or with Johnny. Johnny. Good old J Dog.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

My understanding is this was the predecessor for that. For the high rye.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Well, I will tell you one thing. The high-rai is not finished in X Rye Cash. The high rye was kind of rye throughout. Okay. This thing is like a you it nothing. And then boom, it's something. And I like that. I like the fact that it's not just a as soon as you smell it or drink it, you get the flavors. I like the fact that it really is kind of like that delayedness is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

This whole thing fascinates me because we're talking a 10-year-old scotch from Johnny Walker. So blended. And they've we already know that Logovin is involved in Johnny Walker. We know that Cardio, I was supposed to say Port Helen. I think they were part of Johnny Walker at the same time. But we're talking like massively different types of scotch from different regions, different blends, different peat level smoke levels to this at 10 years old. You start it and you go, is this famous grouse? In the sense, is this an everyday drinker, no thinker? Right. And then, like you said, Chris, all of a sudden it's like, nope. No, it's not. Someone flipped on the light switch. You're like, oh crap.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

It's like you forgot to buckle up and then somebody hits the gas too far, like too hard, and you're like, oh, let me put this on just ever done that. Maybe I should have this on. Like, it's all right. You know? Yep. It's uh, and you know what's interesting is how long it hangs out in the chest for a for uh Johnny Walker. I would never like say Johnny Walker is kind of like girthy or strong, or you know what I mean? But uh this hangs out in the chest for a minute for Johnny Walker. It's and I'm guessing the proof is like what 80? Like it's always right.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

It's a little bit up, is it? This one's 46.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

Okay, 92 per venture. So it's a little bit high.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

It's up a little bit, yep.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

But did that come from the rock?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

All right. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see like how it builds. Like after like as you keep drinking, the more that that continues to like ramp up.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

I'm super interested to see what happens with the pipe. Because at first it's a no it's an everyday drinker-no-thinker kind of scotch. Will the pipe fill that in before it hits the the second part before someone steps on the gas? Or will that is that idea stupid?

SPEAKER_03 9:03

That's that's what I'm trying to figure out. Like, yeah, that's interesting. It might. You very well might fill it in that like you know, that first gear before you go straight to third. If you've ever had a manual, you know what I'm talking about. I don't need second.

unknown 9:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Also, I used to like tell I like to hang out in third at like a stop, and then I just kind of the early kind of rev it up, and then I'd go take off from in third gear. Have you ever done that?

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Not recommended for your no, but but this is like skipping a gear. I did have a manual car that was missing first gear. It was my very first car.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

That was driving, you just start and stop and set up. Yep.

unknown 9:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

I drove a manual with the uh emergency brake on for a long time, and I it kept dying on me, and I couldn't figure out what no, I kept dying on me and I couldn't figure out what the hell was I was like, man, I am really good with a clutch, and uh I figured out way too late. The emergency brakes on, no still crud. You know what I mean? Like pulled that thing off and it never died again. I've never had one problem.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I've never owned a manual and I never learned to drive one when I started driving. But later on when I went to college, my roommate in college, which is the person that I learned most everything I know about cars from, he's a big car guy. My my dad was not a car guy, so I didn't learn anything about cars growing up. But when I went to college, my roommate was, so I learned a lot from him, and he was rebuilding a Jeep Willie's, uh Willie's Jeep, like a military jeep. Oh, one of those that's awesome. It was so cool. It was a blast. And so that's what I learned how to drive. I thought that thing was just sucking it down. It'd still use lead gas. It's again to add the lead to it and everything. And so where do you go get the lead? You can still get lead additive. Yeah, you can get uh unleaded gas, but then you add the lead into it.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Yeah, you can you can choose it, lead it get leaded gas. Yeah, still a thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Still a thing. Sorry, still thing. And so uh it's still a thing, still a thing, still a thing, yeah. So like you can buy the additive.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

Most cars will say make sure you use unleaded gas. Yeah, because there's still leaded out there. I didn't know there's still absolutely I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

He also diesel. I was going to also diesel. Yeah, I was never with him at a place that sold leaded gas, but he had the additive.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

So you just there's places you Google it, it's there's places around. You'll see it every now and then you go to a gas station and you got diesel, leaded, unleaded.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

But he was one, his his philosophy on teaching was to put you in the worst possible situation. Yes. And try to get and then you just take it. Dude, my dad taught me how to drive like that too.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

On a I ever tell you that story, he'd take me to the cemetery and we go halfway up a hill because it was very hilly, and we go halfway up a hill and he'd say, stop, and then he'd say, if you roll back at all, you failed. And then I'd go and, you know, obviously he'd roll back some. He's like, fail. So I didn't get to drive on a real road until I could go up halfway up a hill, stop in a manual, and then start without rolling back at all.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Is that where the e-break came into play?

SPEAKER_03 11:55

No, no, no, no. And that's the thing, is because if you've ever been in a manual and people come right up to your ass, right on your ass. And then you're on a hill and you're like, dude, when this thing turns green and I hit you, that's gonna be your damn fault. But you gotta be able to go without rolling back because you will collide. People come right up on your tail and you're like, dude, you almost need a bumper sticker. It says, manual, give me some freaking rumor. It's on your it's on you.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

You know, so for him, uh, we went like by his pond and like the edge of the pond. So we're like uh like a dang near a 45 degree angle. Like we're going straight up by a pond is how to escape from a car when you're underwater, but like along the edge of it. So he's gonna pop the collection all right in the pond.

unknown 12:39

Shit.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So that's how I had to learn how to drive it once it was like on like a 45-degree angle, damn near. It was it was rough, but we got it.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

So you see, the way that I was taught, like, say I was gonna park, I always lift it in first and turned it off. I never use the emergency brake, but you see a lot of people do that, and that's why the one time when I rode, I was riding with a guy who did use the emergency brake, and I didn't think about it. So I get in, it's in neutral, I throw it into reverse, and I'm going, and then I throw it in first. Every now and then I like die on me from a stop. And I was like, what the crud? You know, it took me like a while, like 15 minutes before I realized oh brakes on.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

There's there's two different thoughts on that, right? I prefer to throw it in. The emergency brake? No, no, no. Oh, throw it into first. Yeah, then park it. Yeah. But then there's those that don't realize that because they're the e-brake people and they try to turn on the car before pushing the clutch and it jolts forward. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, what happened? What happened?

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Pushing the clutch. Why do we need to push the crack? You shouldn't, yeah. Clutch should always be in your turning it on anytime your foot's on the brake of a brake, really. I mean, I mean, other than that, unless you're feathering it. But here's the thing about manuals. And if you don't drive like this, you shouldn't drive a manual. But if you don't know how to coast, for the love of God, to slow down, you don't need to put your freaking brake on every time you need to slow down. It's called think ahead. Yeah, take it. You see, people do that. You anybody you're like tap, tap, tap when the brakes in front of you they're like hitting their brakes on everything. It's like, learn how to freaking coast, dude. It's foot off the gas a couple seconds before you need to brake, and it will slow down and you'll be set. And that's another thing. When you learn how to drive in Tennessee, like I did, there's all those hills and stuff. And if you used your brake the way people do here in Ohio, you would not have brakes. They would you burn right through those things. It's coast. Gas on, gas off, gas on, gas off. You don't need to be hitting your brakes every five minutes, then gas, break, gas, break gas. So what are you doing, man? Just let off the gas. Right. Breaks are emergency automatically, dude. Like learn how to, you know, and then use the curve to your advantage and stuff. Yeah, or hills or whatever it is. But yeah, yeah. You drive a manual, you learn that quick. Because you hit your brake a little too much without hitting your clutch. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, yeah. Goodbye. So you said that this bottle was uh you thought it was the precursor to the high rye. So they did the order of that is right. Okay. The the high rye came out in 2021. This came out in 2015.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

2015?

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yes, this is early. Okay, early, early. They were it sounded like they were going to do a lot of select casks finishes.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

That's why I thought the blenders were part of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, and so but I don't think they did very many of them. They did do a sherry cask. I know that. They did, yeah. But that's that's kind of the only other one that I know of. Uh that I don't know if they did any other ones, but it sounded like this was gonna be like a thing that they were gonna do, and they just never really did it, it seems.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

You know, um to your point, Nick, this pipe. I think the pipe does fill it in. I do think it doesn't fill it in. Because there's a lot less of a drag when you first sip it now, but you still get that really interesting aftertaste. That full it's full body. Or I shouldn't say aftertaste, after like second bridge of the of the on the palate. It's not very Johnny Walkerish. No, not at all. It's really not. And maybe that's why they got rid of it. It leaves a really cool kind of after aftertaste that kind of lingers.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

You know what it reminds me of? It slightly reminds me of Liberty Pull, their peted rye.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

I could see that.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yeah, I could see that. Their peted rye has way more flavor than this, but that that like the light switch going on, it's almost like oh, oh.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

There's there's not as much of a lull. Yeah. But if I will say, if this didn't have that like two punch at the end, I don't know. I think it'd just be so basic that it'd be what and it's not Johnny Walker basic. It's like not where where is the second punch that you're talking about?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

When you're drinking. Where is here?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Let me take a sip and I'll tell you. Is it just like a second flavor, you mean? I'm kind of wondering about so it's not a punch.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

So for me, I wouldn't say it's a punch. If we're talking manuals, right? It's that shifting from first to second, kind of like second to third. Of like, oh, okay. I guess I'm shifting out the sling drop.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

It's like a I'm thinking of like, so like in boxing terms, like jab, cross, right? Okay. You get what I'm saying? So that's why I think a two punch. Like the first one's kind of like a quick, like get your attention, but then the cross, like the right cross is gonna kind of really kind of rock you a bit. I guess that's what I'm getting. It goes from like nothing to like, wow, there's something. And then as soon as I'm done with that thought, it's like, here it is.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

So on the box, the only flavor it mentions is vanilla. Vanilla? Is it could it be? Well, you in like the tasting note, like is that what it's like? Yeah. So like first, first you get that hit of rye, and then it fills in with vanilla with creaminess. But it's like a the combination of rye and vanilla is a little bit strange, so it's hard to tell that it's vanilla.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

I don't think it is. I so here's what's interesting to me when you say the the tasting notes, the only thing they have is vanilla. I don't mean this in a bad way for people from Scotland. I don't know that they understand rye, like the the variety and depths of rye. So to only say this has vanilla, there's so much more going on once you hit that that drop. There's there's so many so many other steps involved. You're like, oh I get rye, I get spice. Okay, there's something else, but it's like Johnny Walker-esque of like it's like sweet cardie with a little bit of smoky, but not uh incredibly deep. It's it's something it it it's weird. There's some strange.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah, I I get that for for me. I felt like it was a little bit more like touching an electrical wire real quick. Like that's the rye. At the end, it's like and then and then something else is happening, and I can't quite, Ryan.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Because what I I would agree with you, what I get is like currently kind of nothing, maybe some like basic scotch kind of a thing. But then it hits me with this rye spice, and it's more of like like a dry rye. But then what it fill what like the second part, what it fills in is this like clove and vanilla. And as it as it's kind of rounding that out, and it's like a a good amount of it. It's because like it's it's like a and it does round it. It's not like a slide, it's like a like a super slide. Well, what do you call that? What in your wet slide? Uh uh, what do you call that? Slip and slide? Slip and slide. Yeah. It's not like if you were to like think of a regular slide that's in the heat all day, like that's fun. But then like a slip and slide, that's a lot of fun. So like that's what I feel like that that amount of clove and vanilla, and as that's coming out, it comes kind of the smokiness, the scotch kind of. And that to me is like a really cool kind of venture-through of taste because that rye spice is really good. It's you really kind of uh the American rye, like a dry American rye. Then to come into like a weird vanilla kind of clove kind of note with a scotch, then to finish up with a scotch-esque kind of smoke. That's an interesting cool.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

It's like a floating sort of uh thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah, but the weird part is I feel like you'll most will get this. The rye in this is Indiana rye. This is 95 and 5 rye. Like this is like pungent rye. Yeah, this is not like a not a wet rye. Not not not like uh not like a real we're not talking like journeyman. We're not talking like a weeded rye. Like this is like this is like punt, not I don't want to say like a winner rye. Yeah, it's it's pungent, but I feel like the the the scotch softens that punch from the pungent. Like it softens that blow from a pungent 95 and five, like Indiana HGP room.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

It's not harsh, but what it is is unexpected. So I think that that makes it more like it's it looks taller than it is. Yeah you know what I mean? Oh, if I was the kind of guy that the kind of guy that carries himself like he's over six foot, but he's really like five, nine and a half. You'd never think he's that short because he carries himself. You know, that's the kind of rye it is. But I think the type of vanilla that I'm getting is kind of like that. You ever had like a McDonald's soft serve vanilla? It's like that kind of vanilla. Like a very flat. Artificial? Like artificial, but in a good way, in a very creamy mouthfeel, kind of all like encompassing kind of a sort of vanilla McFlurry? No, like straight up. If you've ever had like just a regular cone of a swirl cone of the vanilla ice cream, that's what I get. Like the McDonald's vanilla, which is like a really good vanilla, and it's really good consistency for like not real ice cream. Uh that's what that's kind of vanilla it is. It's it's um more than like the it's not the vanilla you get with bourbon, if if that's what I that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

What kind of what kind of vanilla uh vanilla do you get with bourbon? Like a natural.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Have you ever ever had like vanilla beans at the house that you're, you know, you or your wife should have or you made your own vanilla extract or whatever, which we've had that bourbon age vanilla extract, which is fantastic. But we actually have vanilla beans at the house. So we use. That's what, that's what usually what I get when I'm talking about vanilla flavoring, it's like a real vanilla flavoring. Not like the actual, like what you're like, grape flavored uh candy is not, does not taste like grape, right? So vanilla, like artificial vanilla, like vanilla vanilla, does not taste like real vanilla. So when I say vanilla, I'm thinking like real organic vanilla. But what I'm talking about here is like what you think of as like vanilla, like the grape candy versus real grapes, like the grape flavor, the vanilla flavor. Like artificial vanilla.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Or like French vanilla instead of natural vanilla.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Like flavoring. Yeah. Okay. So like cowtails. But it doesn't taste artificial, but it's at artificial. Yeah, cowtails. Vanilla. Okay, yeah, yeah. And caramel. Yep. Yeah. Which what a great combo. I love cowtails. I do. I don't. But I don't like caramel. It doesn't like caramel.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

It doesn't like caramel.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Why do you need bourbon? Vanilla and caramel? It doesn't like bourbon. Two flavors. Two flavors everybody pulls out. Let me get it.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

Caramel and vanilla.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

I don't mind the flavor of caramel.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Brown sugar. No shit.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

I don't like caramel sticking to my teeth. Okay. Oh, but cowtails. That's like a here's the thing. It's like a doughy.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

You should stick to your teeth. But do you like the flavor of it? Like if you were to suck on caramel, but not chew it. There's like a hard candy order. There's I like it. You need to change this. You should not say I don't like caramel. I don't like caramels. Hold on, hold on. I don't like the way caramels. Or I don't like the I don't like the way the caramels feel. It's a texture thing, not a flavor.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Tell me the last caramel candy flavored that you were able to suck on. Yeah, don't ask. It was not so.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

I can't suck on anything. I always chew it.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Yeah, do you guys chew anything that's not soft for caramel?

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Well, the Werther's is the only butterscore. You could suck on numbers.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

I mean a butterscotch one is, but there's a regular caramel. The caramel Worthers are caramel.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Standard Worthers are caramel.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Yeah, absolutely. Butterscotch and Werthers are two different things. Butterscotch disc and a Werther are much, they're worlds apart. I thought that Werthers was butterscotch. No, it's Brock's. Brock butterscotch discs. Brock's butterscotch discs, which also are fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

They are great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

It's another old man. Like if you don't have Werthers, you have the yellow or yeah, orange cellophane butterscotch discs. Or peppermints. Or cream savers back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

It does make a butterscotch. But it's not their standard. It's not the standard. Yeah. I love cream savers. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

But I'm not a texture eater. I've eaten things I don't like the texture of, but I like the flavor of, so I will eat it. But some people are texture people. And I get that you don't like the texture of caramels, but that doesn't mean you don't like caramel. I could make you a caramel macchiato that's completely liquid. Would you like that? Would you like a caramel macchiato completely liquid, not going to affect your teeth? Do you like the flavor of it? Yes or no?

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Okay, so we're getting into weird depths here.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

I mean I guess caramel macchiato is coffee mixed with caramel, but still very cool. What I do is very caramel.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I see. I prefer more coffee than caramel because caramel's too sweet. I prefer black coffee and black. I mean, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

I always say, like, you know, when I order this, I always say, you know, like the unhealthy amount of caramel. I want you to take that. I want you to double that. So Chris? Mary's done that for the Starbucks.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

I said I'd like a caramel macchiato with an extra shot and half of the syrup. And get done typing in. Pause, and she looks at me, and she goes, uh we can't do half pumps.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Good for them.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

And I said, showed you. No, I want half of the syrup that you normally do. And she goes, Yeah, we we can't do half pumps. Sir, we can't shortstroke it.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

How can they not do half a pump? There's just no way to measure it, really.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Go like this. Just instead of pushing all the way down.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Well, when you think you're about, you know, you think you're about halfway, you might be right at the bottom. So she goes, You never know.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

She goes, uh, so is is two pumps good? In my head, I go, Well, I asked for half the syrup. If I asked for half the syrup, you go more. No, go less.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

You should have just said one pump. Hey, it's there's nothing wrong with being a one pump kind of guy. Uh some people have that problem. I'm more of like a multiple pump kind of guy.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

It's kind of sad if she if two pumps is the standard pump and she couldn't divide it by half. Right. That would be really sad. That's true. What is happening? That is true.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

No, see, I'm like, like, and Mary's order of that, because I always get the extra shot. You know this. Oh, I know. But then it's like like the It's pointless because you get extra insanity amount of caramel you would ever give a person, a living person. That's always one I want double of. Yeah. Like I've I've gotten it before where it's been like a this huge chunk, like a two-inch chunk of caramel at the bottom, and I'm like, yes, finally, somebody gets it right. That's how much I like of the caramel. That's sad.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

That's so sad.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Yeah, I love caramel. Dude, like caramel is so great. Caramel apples. I love all of it. All the caramel. I do. I could take a bath in caramel and then I'd lick myself because it's great. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Clean as a whistle. Is it weird for me to say I'd like to see that?

SPEAKER_03 26:52

This is why I'm sitting on the other side of the table. So, Chris, you like card candy. Yes, I do like hard candy, but I cannot, uh, I can't not not crunch it. Well, you know what's also back? But it's also very expensive. But I had a crap load of this growing up was the Altoid Sours. Oh. Remember this? They came in fancy tens. The orange, but they're super expensive because like some third party's making them. Still an altoids guy. Curiously strong mints. But I like the sours. Those were good.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

So are they not outtoids anymore?

SPEAKER_03 27:22

No, dude. This was like 2000.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

So they're an off brand?

unknown 27:25

No.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

They're outtoids, but somebody else made it.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

But it's candy, not a mint, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:29

It's candy. Dude, it's like sour. It was like sour candy in a cool tin before that was a thing. Tangerine and raspberry. I don't even think tangerine and yeah, maybe raspberry. Maybe raspberry. But they tangerine were the best. They were orange.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Yeah, orange, but like almost like white coated on top.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a uh, you know what's another good hard candy? What is it, crown and queen? Probably. You've seen these. I get the tins of it and they're covered in powdered sugar, but they're made in Europe. Oh, yeah. You've had them. They're great. They have great flavors. Um, just fantastic. You taste them before you crunch them. But I do crunch the cra, and it's terrible from your teeth. It's just terrible for your teeth.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

I never, I'm such a hard time. I will not, I won't like suck them forever.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Like I will, I will chew them. Yeah. I can I can only I can only suck on it for so long.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

I mean, eventually you're gonna have to bite.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Eventually, it's gonna have to get my favorite part was Chris looking at Henry, going, do not crunch on that. It's better for your teeth. Yeah, it's better for your teeth. And I looked at Henry and go, do not be like your dad.

SPEAKER_03 28:31

And he instant and then he instantly crunched on it. Dude, he's just like me. If I give him a hard candy, it's like maybe it's usually about like 30 seconds. That's really a crunch. And that's how I am. How do you get the flavor out of it? I don't know. Then I pop, well, I pop another one. Next thing you know, you've had like 28 worders in two minutes, and you're like, I have a problem. I don't know if it's a problem with not being like not being patient or it's a problem with like having too many, but I have a problem. There's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

You're like the owl that can't lick to the center of the bottom.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Dude, I could never get to the center of, I could never get to the center. No.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

The nice thing about this bottle is they did not be impatient. No. Feel like for a rye barrel, they did not be impatient. But so we've had compass box. Not their is it their Glasgow blend? The but we had the barrel of the the single barrel where we talked about marrying. I have it downstairs. I have to let you try it. Single barrel compass box? Yes. We had it on the podcast. Oh I don't know if you were there, but we we did it. Yeah, we talked about that idea of marrying like the when within Scotch, they have marriages within barrels. So um cardew, log valin, all those may be aged separately, then they blend together and throw them into separate barrels, and then they let them sit. And then they let them sit. But that's the marriage of those barrels that they then take back and blend together for the final product. My question is where did this touch the rye cask? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

And how long was it in there?

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Well, how long not 10 years? Well, how long was it in there? But like at what point was it after they blended, or did they let everything sit separately in rye cask and then blend it? Was that the cask?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

The select cask. I assume that this is post-marrying. I think that they married them together and then let them sit separately. I think you're right. That's the fascinating group.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

It's a complex flavor. Yes. So we're going to blend to belief that that would be the case.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

The the crazy thought process, we started with, I believe the series out with Burlotic. I could be wrong. We had Burlotic somewhere along the way, which was insane because every bottling is different. And we're talking like 80 plus bottles or barrels. To blend these, to marriage these together, then let them sit and marry, and then bring something back for a rye cask finish. And to get this, what I love that idea too.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

To age separately and then age together. I do love that idea. But like how of complex flavors, layered flavors.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Okay, so layered flavors, you pull this out, you try it, and you go, man, this tastes amazing. And then you go, you know what would be good? Rye.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Well, I mean, that is genius because it is hard to pull something at the particular flavor profile you want, and then to decide, well, let's do this as well. Like it could ruin something. Right. Was this an experiment? I think it was an experiment that turned out, but a 10-year one. Right. Like, what the heck? They had to have had some sort of like this is gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Got a batch of rye barrels and didn't know what to do with them.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

And they had some stuff that was aged out. I mean, we were talking Johnny Walker. They have aged stuff. It's not like a like for a craft, like a lost.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

I mean, we're talking bullet. They probably had this is what, 2014, you said 2015? 2015. Yep. So they had bullet rye at that point.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

This is good. We've also talked about mixing like actual portions of rye with scotch to see what that would be like. That would be something I'd still be interested in trying or seeing what would happen. But and that would be interesting, also marrying those together in a barrel. Like that would be weird. But this is interesting. I like it. And it's uh it's just not what I would expect after looking at that. I'm kind of upset that I didn't think that it would still do it. Yeah. Well, yeah, that does.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah. What a Debbie Downer, dude. This is over, then it does it. It's just kind of over. This is done. This is done. Yeah. Uh so there's it, Ryan. They're complicated.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I suppose I might need a little more. Yeah, you might as well.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Please help yourself, yeah. Uh let's take a minute to talk about the tobacco, if I if I can, while you're doing that, Nick. Because I will say, we're we're it's Peterson's Irish Flake, which we've done on the podcast before, I think one time. It's been sitting in my pipe room for a minute. I haven't even revisited it. But remember if we talked about we talked about this on the podcast being like such a stout blend and blah, blah, blah, blah, and all this stuff. And we really did enjoy it. But I will say, after smoking this tonight, and maybe it's because I I dried mine out a little ahead of time, I don't know. This is a crate pipe tobacco. Like, holy cow. Talk about some full flavor. Okay. Really well burning, well, really well behaving, very good, earthy, real tobacco, robust tobacco flavor. What's in this? I think it's I think it's just, well, I'll tell you. I think it's just there's not much. It's it's it's really kind of its own.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Because if I remember, there wasn't much in there. Like there wasn't much flavor.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

It says it's a full-bodied blend made made of equal proportions, air-cured, flu, and flu-kered, dark-fired Virginia and brother. That's right. Okay, Burley and Virginia. Dark fired Virginia, which is wow, that's interesting. And then Burley.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Because you thought about dark-fired Kentucky with this guy when we had it on the podcast the first time, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And uh slightly sweet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Was this the high nicotine one?

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Strength five. Maybe this was the high nicotine. Yeah. This was supposed to, yeah, this will knock you on your ass if you're not, if you're not a like, if you're not used to stronger blends for sure. And I could tell that it's a full dude. This is full flavor. This is um not just espresso. This is really good espresso if you've never had espresso before. That that's what that would be like. If you went from like regular drip coffee to like a really high-end Italian espresso, that's what this would be like going from like Captain Black to this. Would be insane. This is really good for someone who smokes pipes all the time. This is full flavored, really good.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

What's interesting is hearing you talk about that. I so I referenced this uh probably Christmas or New Year's about the the tobacco that was high nicotine. You're like, man, this'll this'll put someone on their rear, right? But smelling this compared to the previous one, this is less peppery, but it fills it sounds weird. It fills in the gaps at the beginning, smell-wise, for this scotch. It adds some character, like some depth. What flavor is on this is straight throughout.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

And it's not peppery. It's like it's earthy. Yes. It's tobacco. It's this is tobacco, you know what I mean? Like that's what I think of.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yeah, it is. It's just kind of a straight tobacco. It's it's very much, you know, Puri can sort of adds that that kind of a peppery note to it that you're talking about, that it adds like a spice to it. And that almost feels like uh almost feels like a topper or something. Like it's something being added to it's like cracked pepper on top of that.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Whereas this is just a straight, like you said, the whole way to straightforward tobacco, but uh, but in a good, rich, dark, strong, earthy, bold kind of way. And I appreciate that. Like, like we try so much stuff that does have different flavor profiles, and then they it kind of goes up and down or left and right or whatever. And I do appreciate that. I really like that. But sometimes it's good to have something that's just strong and good all the way through, kind of like the way a good coffee is, in my opinion. Like there are coffees out there that kind of do all that stuff, these roller coaster rides and whatever. But there for now and then you get a coffee that's kind of just good, like, and I like it black, but a good black coffee that's just coffee throughout, strong, full flavored, bold all the way through. And that's what this is.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

So I could be wrong. That tobacco with this glass is this Johnny Walker double black, but in an X ry cask.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

With this type, maybe adding some stuff that this is lacking. With that tobacco.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, yeah, it's a little bit like oak tobacco, uh not oak, but age almost.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Yeah, the the the the double black, the Johnny Walker double black is Johnny Walker with a fuller body and uh more smoke and oak. That's what I get. And I guess that this would actually, this would be really good with Johnny Walker double black. The type? Yeah, uh, yeah, this this tobacco just in general. But this it's really good with this as well. This is more, yeah. This has got a little bit more of uh delicate kind of in the beginning, but then it kind of comes in with that like rye, which is hardy and dry, and then kind of ends up with this really cool, like really, really uh very flavorful, you know, artif I hate to say artificial, but really flavorful vanilla and clove with a little bit of smoke at the end. And with this, it it goes well because this is kind of like it's not the paper for the the paint, but it is kind of working alongside it to kind of bolster it. It's like lifting, it's like the short kid that maybe needs to be lifted up when he's like looking at a speech or a concert or something. Above the crowd? Yeah, just lift it up just a little bit. Like you're standing on your brother's shoulders a little bit, you don't need to, but like it does make it better, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Steve, does this remind you at all of an American single ball?

SPEAKER_01 37:50

I don't think so. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

Why?

SPEAKER_01 37:53

I'm glad you say that because I don't either.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Well, it's giving you that. I'm glad and not glad that you said that at the same time. Uh, because there's this so after a glass and then some poured in, it becomes sour. Like that first punch, that first dip or punch for rye becomes almost like a sour green rye that I get for American sources.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

You mean like a green apple sour green or like a like an unripe grape kind of sour?

SPEAKER_02 38:28

The the only and best way I can describe it is w the flavor I get from an Indian rye. A 95 and five. I agree with you. MGP that kind of sour. It's uh it's less like slightly sour. Yeah, it's not like it's not sour candy.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

It's more like the way that if you add a little bit of vinegar to something.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Yes, yeah, yes, yep. Like it takes it a little dip and then comes right back.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

If you've ever added a little vinegar to like meat, like a sour brat, that is sour.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Or if you think of like uh Frank's hot sauce that is vinegar, like you you have that dip and vinegar and then you're hot and you're like, oh, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Like uh Frank's hot sauce. Oh, no, no, but yes, I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

You're like, I I just went into vinegar and then some like flavor and spice, and then yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

It's the bait, it's like more than a base. It's like weight, it's a very Frank's and Tabasco, very vinegar-based sauces. Yes, yeah, little bit of peppers.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

That's what I get from this, and that's why I think of American singlewall is that like that dip into like not vinegary, but like sour-ish, and then coming back up.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

I get I get what you're saying. Yeah, I get what you're saying. I don't equate that to American single balls, though.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Do you, Steve?

SPEAKER_01 39:40

I don't know. I don't get a sour note. Yeah, I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell whether you agree with me or not. Yeah, I don't get a sourness from American single malt. Um, the the thing that you guys generally talk about is the thing you don't like about American single malt, that like aftertaste, that aftertaste thing. I do a little bit understand what stale is less sour. Yeah, it's like a staleness to it that's not, but it's not like yeah, it's different than this than sour for me. Yeah. For me, that punch that you guys are talking about that comes from this is still very muted for me. It's there at the end. Like I do, the anything. This is a very watered down scotch to me. I get very little flavor out of it. On the beginning, I agree with you. On the on the beginning, it's very disappointing. I do kind of understand, I do get a little bit of that punch at the end. I went back for more, like, I had to get a second glass just to kind of do it multiple, like I was really looking for it. And I I found it then. When I was like, if you guys talked about it and I could like think about it, I found it. But af but before that, I would have never noticed. I give it uh so it was pretty mild there. After I started looking for it, I found it. And I I I I kind of realized what you mean with that, but it's still a pretty small little dip.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Yeah, it's it's still a small thing. If you're not sensitive to it, or you're not like really kind of yeah, I could see a lot of people that aren't that, you know, maybe don't have their palates quite like tuned that would not, yeah, wouldn't think of anything about this. You're right. Yeah, they wouldn't be as sensitive to it or something. And I think that you are, and that's why you picked up on it. But I think if if you were in the right, yeah, I needed to look at headspace and you're just trying to drink something, you might even miss it even still.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

But before your pipe, did you catch any dips in? Nothing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Yeah, I I had a sip before I smoked because you said to to try it first, and I got regular old Johnny Walker. I got I got nothing special.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

I think this is the first part, this is less than Johnny Walker. But uh the first sip I had before I had my pipe was very like, don't like it, it's really stupid, very boring, and then boom, boom. But I think it was because it is such a such a I don't care about this. It's so nothing that when the flavor did kick, it kicked hard. That's the only thing I could think of. Like if it had any sort of flavor in the beginning, I don't know if it would be as good. I appreciate the fact that there's an absence of flavor and then flavor. Something else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

What about you, right? Ryan? Well, I was I think for me the pipe is smoothing everything out a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Any of the same Petersons? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Or did you get the energy? I think it's smoothing it out for me a little bit more. But I've I've been sitting here wondering like, first of all, how do you get the rye to hit like second to last? Yeah, how? Right. That's that's kind of interesting to me. But also, what if the rye hit wasn't there second to last? It would suck.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

This would suck without the rye.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

What would it become? I don't think I don't think you'd be like waiting, waiting, and then all of a sudden, like this cloud-like pillow of vanilla something would rise up at the end. I think maybe it might be the little rye jolt that allows you to the vanilla stuff at the end. I I'm just wondering what would would that vanilla just disappear if the if it didn't have the rye.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

It needs a slap and tickle.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Yeah. The rye's the slap, the vanilla's the tickle books.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Tickle would be weird without the slap, right? You know, and a slap without a tickle is kind of like, well, you're leaving me hanging, you know? Yeah. I I agree, Ryan. I think without that rye in there, it would be weird, and you I don't think you would get that. Or if you did get it, you wouldn't appreciate it. You wouldn't know it for what it is. You need that kind of like slamming on the brakes to kind of experience the nice gentle acceleration afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

So here's the downside of this model. They were matured for 10 years and first uh Scotch fill American oak casks.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

So they put this in American oat casks. And then the rye for how for not long, probably. Since 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

So I'm just months or 10 years in American casks. First Scotch fill. I can't tell you what the originally.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Is it like second use for I think what that means first Scotchville means that uh So they're second use, but they don't we don't know if it's bourbon or if it's rye or you know what it is.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Whiskey aged in first fill American oat casks and then finished next ride. So they aged an American next year.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Aged an American finished?

SPEAKER_03 44:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Experiment barrels basically.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

X bourbon. And then X ride. And that's her first fill. And then X Rye to finish it all. The barrels went straight from aging bourbon to aging this. Yes. Yes. That's what I hear. And then it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Oh, it's on the back, yeah. So we have a 10-year-old Scotch that's essentially 10-year-old American bourbon. Second fill?

unknown 44:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

It's weird. It says mature for 10 years. You know what could be? That'd be weird. What if they did half of it like in um uh ex bourbon and half in rye? Because that could the way that they're writing this could be that way. Because it says mature for 10 years in first fill scotch uh American oak and finished in casts formerly used to age rye whiskies. I mean, it doesn't say that that almost leads you to believe 10 years and 10 years or something like that. You don't know, or I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

But seems like that's the finish seemed possible. Finished to me means that it was originally in bourbon barrels.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

I think in six months in rye.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

And then for a short while in rye barrels.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Matured for 10 and finished. You're right. You're right. I think finished in the five years. I think the fact that they said matured for 10 and then finished in rye, it means like a three to six months or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

I would love to know what the finished time frame was.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

But what but I go back to this then, why not try something? Is it too much? Like what 10 years and a rye? Like, I'm gonna try that. I know. Give me some X rye barrels and then give me 10 years. So so tell me what that is for Scotch. Is that amazing? Maybe like could be cool. For Scotch, they love Pete.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

They do. American, we hate Pete. Pete is offensive. We we're slowly growing on Pete. Americans, rye is okay. Is rye peat for Scotland?

SPEAKER_03 46:15

Maybe I don't, maybe I don't want it, but I do want it. But I do want like a very like what if you did like a LeFroig aged in like rye like a river for a hot minute? Like that would be potentially amazing. Or it could break the world. Maybe that's too much.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

You know what we maybe that would break. I think we need to connect Liberty Pole with LaFroig. I want to try it.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

What would what would it look like? A really crazy Highland Scotch and Rye. What would that look like? Yes. Please, yes. That would be something that you're like that's a punch to the gut, dude. That sounds like something I want to get a tattoo of. Like freaking Scotch and Rye combined together. Like that's a superhero, dude. How about how about we change it up? Like the Wonder Twins, Rye and Scotch.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Let's let's do a space side finished in Liberty Pull's Rye Barrel. That would just make a space side good. Fair? Okay, fair. Fair. You're basically getting to a good scotch at that point. Yeah. We're but what would that do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

So does this seem very scotchy to you? No, the little bit of scarce. This doesn't really seem like a scotch to me.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

It's on the back end, a little bit of scotch you're getting.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Yeah. I'm not really picking up the scotch as well.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Without the rye, it would be ho-hum. I mean, it really would. To me, that's why I made a comment on the back end. It's a hint of Liberty Pull's peated rye. Like you get a hint of that like slight smoky-ish rye, but it's not, it's it's one and done. It's there and then mel it out. It's gone pretty quick.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

Yeah, that rye is very much the forefront in the middle of the taste. Yeah. Which I love.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Yeah. Without it, it would be I think this is it'd be nothing. I I could drink this every day and be fine.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

This actually is really good. I'm surprised they did quit making this. I know. Because this actually is really good.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

And we're talking, I was one. I was wondering if my next question was going to be do we see why they stopped making it? Yeah, for scotch.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

I mean, because I mean if we're talking Scott's.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

Like they there was a lot of stuff they were making that was good. People liked it. It was sought after. They quit making it. But I think maybe because it was too hard or too much. Or they wanted to simplify.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Killer about Johnny Walker is they're an American company owned by an American company trying to get Scotch over here and Americanize it. And I think they started killing off those in Scotland that enjoyed Johnny Walker. So they stopped doing so many experimentals to stick with them. They they found that's the bread and butter.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

I think the other thing is you got to think Johnny Walker makes a lot of money on their basic offerings. How many times can you think about a brand or something that made really great stuff? They quit doing it because it was just they weren't making as much money off of it as their regular stuff. And that doesn't mean it wasn't good. Doesn't mean people didn't buy it, but they make enough as it is. And you got to think, this is a big company that doesn't really care about. I like Johnny Walker, but I don't think they really care that much about the customer. They care about sales. They look at numbers. They look at numbers. Yeah. They look at numbers. So like all they're going to look at is what skew, and there's a lot of companies that do this. What skews sell the highest? And if it's not those, they trash them. Uh I can think of the example right now, but there was one company that I was talking about the other day, same thing. They looked at the skews and they went after the highest selling skews, and whatever that wasn't that, they quit making it. That people lost their shit because they wanted that stuff, but they don't care because at the end of the day, it's about the money that they make. And they'd rather focus on the things that make the most money. That's probably what Johnny Walker does. I mean, they might have thrown some stuff out there. They somebody really wanted to do something, they gave them a chance or whatever, but they had no intention of keeping it because they make plenty of money off of their regular stuff. They're never gonna get rid of their red label and their black label and their blue label because that's where they make their money. At the end of the day, it's all matters.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

But it seems like if that's what you've got going for you, that is that can fund a ton of experimental things. Yeah. That you're a lot of CEOs. If you love whiskey, you can do you, you will use the profits from the the standard offerings to fund the experimental things that can't make money on their own. And you keep doing those things that can't make money on their own because you have the money.

SPEAKER_03 50:46

They're not, they're not the the the the book the you know the booker knows, and they're not the you know, they're not those guys, they're not about the heritage and everything, they're about the ultimately they're about the dollar. So you like compassion. They're the Walmart of Scotch, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 51:00

You like Compass Box. I do. What I've had has been great every time. You want to know where the founder of Compass Box comes from? Oh, great. Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Johnny Walker, Diagio. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

All right, so he he was marketing at Johnny Walker and Diaggio. Everything they do is what you want from Johnny Walker, but it was it was done. They do one and done, and he was not happy with it. So he decided to do his own thing. So Compass Box is that.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

What he's the whiskey artist?

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Yeah, yeah. He's the guy that actually cares. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he he's probably the guy that tried this and went, what the f yes, please. Let's keep doing this. Let's figure out how we amplify this. Johnny Walker was like, it didn't do it.

SPEAKER_03 51:43

I mean, Johnny Walker, the guy, whoever is in charge, the CEO. He's not Lily Walker. You know what I mean? He's not like looking for that right one. Yeah, well, that's not Johnny Walker. That's just not Johnny Walker.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Yeah, that's compass box. They're ultimately about their own. They thought that thing was gonna replace black label or red label.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

No, but they replaced this with the high rye. Well, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Does it? Well, I mean, I don't know. I look at maybe I had so different.

SPEAKER_03 52:10

Honestly, the high rye is not as good as this. Oh, really? It was good, but it wasn't as good as this. Because it was just a it was a very it's too much, it's it's too much. It's really just a rye with some Scotch S qualities. And that's not what this is.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Without the P.

SPEAKER_03 52:26

Yeah. I I it was good. I did like it. I like this better. Yeah, I do like this better. I like this a lot better. But this it is still material. You gotta squeeze it out. This is a thing. Yeah, it's missing for you, the pipe. It's still the pipe actually kind of fills in the gap. That's what I thought. It would fill in that front gap. Completely right. With the this, with the this specific strong pipe tobacco is perfect. It's a great combination. I don't think if I would like it that much without smoking something. I just don't.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Um, maybe you might get away with drinking this and eating something, that would be good. But I think just drinking this, you'd be kind of like You gotta have something else with it. You'd be out there on an island. Yeah, you'd be a little bit like, I don't know. If I like, I am kind of lonely. You know what I mean? Like I I do miss human companions.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

I am kind of lonely.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Like you'd be looking at that volleyball, like, eh, maybe. Maybe. Yeah. I didn't think I'd be that kind of guy, but maybe I am gonna draw a face on that and start talking to it.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

So uh what does the Freud cost?

SPEAKER_03 53:22

Which LeFroud 10? 60 bucks, $65, man. How much is this? 120 too much.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

I I love Tipsy. I don't know if he just he knew what he had. Yeah, it's not he even said this was no longer be made. I think for it 45, 50 bucks.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Oh, yeah. That does make it better.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:46

All of a sudden Ryan's like, and we have a winner.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

This is a lot better. I'm sorry, this might be the last bottle.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Under 50 bucks, like this is fan. Any Johnny Walker under 50 bucks that's not their red label. For 50, that's not near as bad. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. What would you want this one? Oh, the tool, yeah. I don't think other than their red label, everything's over 50 bucks, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Their black might be 40. Right around 40, 45. I think double black is close to 50. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:14

Because it goes what? Red, it goes red, green, then green. Okay, it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

Red, green, black, black, double black, double black, and then gold.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Yeah, I think blue.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

There might be platinum somewhere in there. There's no white. No, there's platinum in between. I think platinum's in between gold and black. Blue is good.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

Blue, yeah. Blue is good, but in the same way that McClellan 12 year is good. It's good. But or not McClellan, uh McAllen. Sorry. I was thinking of the Piper Decko. McAllen uh uh 12 year is good. How dare you? You're done. Big differences in quality, but I'm saying it it's very similar tasting f flavor. No, I think so. What is this? Blue? Yeah, blue and McCallan. McAllen 12. They're both a light, a light scotch. Very, very well done. Sorry, you're talking blue, the top shelf? Yeah, I'm not saying the flavors. Yeah. And my McAllen, oh, the McAllen uh 12 is like 80 bucks. Yeah. Well, what I'm saying is when you get to a certain point, what's that term that I we learned in Second Life? No, we learned about it in uh economics. But when you get to the term diminishing returns, diminishing returns, yeah. When you get to a certain point, you're like, this is great, but like, am I gonna spend that much more for the blue layer? No way. Like it's not that much different.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

It's not that much better. Hold on, Ryan. What? Would you buy after trying a Johnny Walker blue?

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Would I buy what? A Johnny Walker Blue bottle.

SPEAKER_03 55:46

For 300 bucks, basically.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

275, 300. I see it. I've been seeing it at 200. For 200? That's a good deal. I've never I don't spend money though.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

I've never spent that much money on a bottle. But if it was a lifetime bottle, would you buy it? A lifetime bottle. A McAllen 12? It never lasts that long. McAllen 12, McAllen, so lifetime retirement bottle.

SPEAKER_03 56:07

Would you Oh it's a good retirement bottle. But what I'm saying about the McAllen 12 is you can buy that and drink it and buy that and drink it. And it's almost just as good of as the experience you get from Johnny Walker Blue label. Because the problem with Johnny Walker Blue label is you're going to try a little bit and save. A little bit and save. So honestly, you probably enjoy the McAllen 12 more. You get what I'm saying? Diminishing returns. Diminishing return.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

You're not talking flavor. You're just talking experience.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

Okay. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not putting it.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

I do not think Johnny Walker Blue is worth $200. That's what I'm getting. Or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03 56:39

But a high-end scotch, like a good quality, like not super flavorful, but very good quality scotch. McAllen 12 kind of hits that spot where it's like, this was expensive, but it wasn't that expensive, and I can drink it and not feel bad about it. The same way that you would drink a high-end, like a like a Johnny Walker Blue. Very similar experience without feeling the hurt of like, I can only have little bits of this at a time. That's my opinion. Everybody wants a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue. You're never going to open it for people. You'll have little bits here and there. Yeah. But McAllen 12, you will share and share like and buy another one, even though it's an expensive good. And everybody knows they're getting good scotch, right? Have you ever been given Johnny Walker or uh a McAllen 12? You're like, yeah, this is good. I have. And it's like, you know, every time I've had it, I'm like, they're giving me a good scotch. I know what it is. I know the quality of it. I know the price of it. They're giving me a good scotch. It's great. For a lot of people, this is a higher-end bottle. When you get that offered to you, you think, I'm experiencing something great because this is something somebody bought. They spent a good amount of money on it. It's made with quality ingredients. I know I'm going to get consistent flavor. These are all good things. You don't, you're not getting something cheaper. You know you're getting a certain level of quality. You're not going to get that. Nobody's going to give you Johnny Walker blue like that unless they're super ostentatious and they're like just kind of pretentious and like kind of like, oh, I got money to throw around. You know what I mean? Which again wouldn't matter as much. I think somebody that's like normal giving you a uh a pour of of McAllen 12 is more important than somebody with a ton of money giving you a Johnny Walker blue. Because it comes from a more special place. You get what I'm saying? The experience for me wise, I think that the they're they're the same. That's my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

I do love Johnny Walker Blue. So here's here's a hot take. Let's just say somebody gave me a $200 gift card to a liquor store. So that way it was not, it was not because I don't spend $200. If I had a gift card for $200, because that money is never going to come out of my pocket, it's free money. I can't imagine my budget ever and my wife ever being okay with it.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

You gotta spend $200. It's bad luck if you don't.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

You know what I would do?

SPEAKER_03 58:50

Buy multiple bottles.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

I would not well, okay. I know you're doing what you buy more.

SPEAKER_03 58:57

Give me $100 on give me five of those famous grouse there.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Okay, give me more credit than that. Okay, but if I was gonna spend that money, I would go for an art bag experimental. Oh yeah, I would not do a Johnny Walker Blue. Okay, you're getting more bang for your buck. I would, I yeah, like that that Smokeyverse uh or Ardbag or something like that. It's but still like 180, like which is insane to me still. Like still out of my range.

SPEAKER_03 59:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

Yeah. And and I would take a risk, even having had that peppermint swirl thing spectacular. Yeah, that was a dud. That was a dud. Oh that was sad. That was really sad. But having had yes, but having had the uh Bizarbecue, like I like I have to give them another chance. I would go for an Ardbeg experimental over a Johnny Walker Blue if I was gonna spend the money.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

Fair. That's fair. That I understand this. See, that I get not a McCallan. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

I'm not as familiar with McCallan's.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

I'm not a fan of port wine blended with my sky.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

I'm comparing sherry to, you know what I mean? Like, well, it's sherry. The McAllen 12 is sherry.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

It's sherry.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

But I'm uh what I'm I'm comparing two very kind of nondescript but quality whiskeys, Scotch whiskeys, at very differing price points, with with ultimately almost the same kind of uh experience, unless you really know. Right. Most people, when they get a McAllen 12, are gonna say that's the best scotch I've ever had in my life. I know a lot of people that are air quotes whiskey people that will tell me that the McAllen 12 is the best scotch whiskey they've ever had. And they might have had Johnny Walker Bruce, but they can't tell the difference between the two other than the price.

unknown 1:00:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

I mean, there is flavor differences, but what they're looking for is quality. I mean, these are the guys that say something is smooth and they like it. Nothing wrong with that. That's the average person is gonna say that. That's what they're looking for, is a very smooth whiskey. We don't like that, but that's what the average person is gonna do. And I just think when you're looking at the price differences and the availability, uh, I just think that most people are gonna have more of an enjoyment, more of an enjoyable experience based on the McAllen 12 than they would the Johnny Walker Blue because it's just so much more expensive. And when you empty the McAllen 12 versus emptying the Johnny Walker Blue, I guarantee you're gonna feel a difference. Unless you have an opulent amount of money. Right, right. That's fair. That's fair. You get what I'm saying? It's just different. And you're gonna be more uh free-giving. It's gonna feel better to give, it's gonna be feel better to pour. You're you're pouring people a quality whiskey that you spent, you know, a decent amount of money on for the average person. Versus like a Johnny Walker Blue is kind of one of those bottles that people pull it out to be kind of like look at me, look at me. And I'm sorry, but it is what it is. It's a good whiskey. But most people, it's like, were you saying, Ryan, where you're like, look at my bottle. Or no, art. When you were like, look at this in this painting was $2,000, $20,000, and this painting was $30,000. Those type of people are going to like Johnny Walker Blue. That's just what it is. It is a good whiskey, but it becomes for the wrong reasons. Yes. Whereas a McCallan 12 is a good whiskey for the right reasons at a reasonable price. That people are you're never anywhere you go, unless you are a complete douchebag, if you somebody poured you a McAllen 12, you would be grateful and you would be very excited about it and you would be thankful because that is a good whiskey poured in a good for a good reason, you know, is a sharing kind of a thing. You would enjoy it because it is a quality whiskey at a decent price. You know what I mean? And I think that that's why I think the experience is the same. And really, honestly, for me, I think the experience is better, McCallum 12, because people are going to be more free to give.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

That's what I think. I got I won the uh Johnny Walker blue bottle in the club raffle. And there wasn't much in there. I mean, just a few inches left in the bottle. Um, I've only busted that out maybe a couple of times since since I got it. Like one was for like I think when my when my dog died, I had I had a little pour. And when I turned 50, I had a little pour. I'm not like I'm not busting that out for people. That's like a secret stash, and it's only it's only for me. Like nobody even knows I have it. I'm not flaunting that I have a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue, and I'm also not sharing it. It's only it's like a private moment bottle for me. I mean, and grant and granted, there's only like just a few little there. I mean, maybe one and a half pour is left in the in the bottle, but I'm I'm saving that for a private.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:43

It's a great it's a great gift to give to somebody that for a for a big like a retirement gift or something like that. I just anybody who's got that and is is showcasing it and pouring it for people, or it's usually the look-it-me, look-at-me kind of people. Yeah. Which kind of makes the whole experience kind of cheap.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

But for this bottle, for 50 bucks, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:01

It's a great bottle for 50 bucks. Yeah, I'm surprised it was 50 bucks. Usually their specialty stuff is and I and I guarantee this was way more, but maybe it wasn't selling or whatever. But yeah, all their specialty stuff's usually way more.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

But uh, yeah, I'm I'm not super impressed with this bottle, but for 50 bucks, I would I would get it. It's it's good for that price. Yeah. And you've had the rye, the Johnny Walker rye, right? I have, yep. And I I but it's been a while, and so I don't really remember it to say like if I liked it, it was a lot more American. It was a lot more American than this. Yeah, and a lot more rye. And if I pick up a scotch, I'm not looking for American. No, like that's not what I want.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:36

I like how this has hints of it, but it's not full on.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:39

But yeah, so I think that's uh that's the end of our scotch series. So on to the yeah. So this is our last our last scotch, and then we'll move on to something else next.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

Yeah, you have to stay tuned to see what it is because I don't I don't even know what it is. I don't know what it is. We're in design.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

We're undecided. We'll figure it out. That's what we do. Fly by the yeah, we'll find out next week with you. All right, until then, then we'll figure it out. Until then. All right. Cheers. Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskey tastersplum.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.