Echo Engineer Bee my Neighbor!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. Oh, while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

It wasn't the Latakia. Because Cypress they're still using Syrian Latakia. No. I think it had something to do with the Orientals in here.

unknown 0:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yes. So that's what it was. The type of Orientals that they use in here. They also used in uh Frogmorton on the Town. And they don't utilize those types of Bosma grades anymore, I don't think. Or you can't get them very often. So that's so I think that's why I got it to try it. But I love Frog Morton on the Town.

unknown 1:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

And I I think this is fairly close to that, people say. So made by the same company as that makes all the Dunhill stuff. Right. It's Peterson, right? Or now it's Peterson. Yeah. It's it's STG Scandinavian Tobacco Company. You can see like it's the same. Same thing. But I want to say this has got at least a few years of age on it. I was just craving Frogmorton on the town really bad one day, and I goog I went like deep dived into it, and this is one of the ones that people recommended. So we'll see. It's another English. Probably on the lighter side. But you said you've had it. I believe I have, yeah. I may have some at home, actually. They have two different ones. Uh Peterson's got like it like one's called this one's called Old Dublin. And it's got black Cavendish in it. But then they also have another one that's called Dublin something, and it's more aromatic. I can't remember what that one is. And then they have Irish Oak, which is we've had that. You can tell. I mean, this is very much cut like nightcap or it looks like a good cut. Quintessential ribbon cut from anything from STG. But I will say, as far as ribbon cuts go, best in the business. I mean they know what they're doing. I would love to see what they would come out with. Like a shag cut, like a finer cut than this. I love shag cuts.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Shag is the ones that are like really, really fine, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Yeah, really fine. Yeah, really, really fine. And um Esoterica does a few shag cuts, which is, you know, just the best tobacco you can get. If you can get it. If you can get it. Um, but anybody that's like shag cuts, it's like, okay, dude, chill out. Like, if you had Margate, if you had Pinbroke, like take it, take it, Joe Pill. You're fine. Yeah, yeah. Shag cuts are great. You just gotta know how to pack them and don't smoke like a complete horse's ass, and you'll be fine. Okay, here you go, Steve. We're smoking old Dublin, people. If you're we're smoking old Dublin. Old Dublin. It's in English with some black Cavendish.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Drinking some Echo Spirits. The engineer series. Yes, Echo, Echo Spirits. As Chris likes to say, say Echo twice. Echo Echo. I should just keep asking what you said. So I don't know if you guys know this or not. We actually got introduced to Echo year one of the club. Yeah. Echo Rye. Echo. Because uh Tyler. So Tyler is friends with one of the owners of uh Echo. And so that's how we got connected with Echo. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

It was friends with Echo Rye uh Bettinger, I think.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

Yep. So they've been around, I think they started the same year the club started.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah, it hasn't been out that that long.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

But I want to hate not hate them. I want to not all like them. And it's petty, super petty, because it's all it's all sourced. So right now it's all sourced. And so the sourced side of me with whiskey, the the non in my mind, there's a non-craft side of whiskey, and that's sourcing it. And so I want to dislike them. Yeah, they're sourcing like a mother if. I can see that on the back. But they um they source and then they intentionally blend all of their stuff. Right. They they don't just put it together like whiskey worse and see who wins.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

It looks like they're being intentional, but they are being intentional, they're being transparent. It's got yeah, it's got bat this batch distilled in Kentucky and Indiana, finished in Ohio, no less than four years.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

And again, I it's the pettiness of me that wants to dislike it, but but then you take it. Their rye was phenomenal. Their rye was also sourced, if I remember right, and it what it it was not MGP rye, it was so good. Yeah, they they to this day do not distill whiskey. They did hire on someone new recently. I don't know if you saw that or not to start possibly distilling, possibly, which would be good.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Cinnamon on the nose, though. It's very interesting. You getting that? I get you. Have you smelled it, Steve? I have not smelt it. Whoever smells it, so I have not dealt it.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

But yeah, Echo, uh, Echo does see, Chris. Echo does not, they do not distill, they only source, but they don't distill at all. That's right now whiskey. Well, whiskey, they do rum. This is a big rum. I don't know why, but for Ohio, this is a big rum.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Kind of rum ish, rum-esh. This is huge in the rum.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Yeah, they are rum is their primary thing. Like rum, rum is what they're known for.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Rum is what they want, but if you're gonna do rum, if you need to double down on rum. I want it, I want rum from a place that does rum, not that does rum and no, they've doubled down on the rum.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

Like to the point where they do uh they release one every year, which is like a a queen batch? Do you know anything? It's like it's like barrel-proof rum that's super sought after. Like this barrel, the bottle alone is super sought after.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

I love barrel-proof rum. A high proofed rum if you haven't had it.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

But out of Ohio. Chris, out of out of Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

Out of Ohio.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Any rum out of Ohio is weird, other than like an afterthought. Yeah, like so the setting up on them, they they leaned real hard hard into rum. And uh they don't really explain themselves on that in terms of like why that was their thing, but that but that's what they went into. They source stuff, like all the grain, anything they can from Ohio. Obviously, we don't grow sugar cane in Ohio all year round. What? We don't. So I know that's news to me. I know it. I thought green heists houses were doing it, but I guess not.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

What am I growing in my backyard?

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Engineers. But they do use an Ohio company or whatever to it source it in. Uh, but they also they're they're big in the beer game. They own like another beer company and stuff. Uh and they started in four-string brewing tap room, was where they originally it's in Columbus, it's downtown. It's off of I think it's off of high, but I'm not sure. But Echo's not in Columbus.

unknown 7:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Echo's in Columbus.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

They're they're like local.

unknown 7:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

Uh why do I think that they were a little bit out? I think they they came late to the distilling game for Columbus. They came really late. They did.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

They're I remember their bottles used to look fairly new. Their bottles looked different.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

No, it's always been that. But different colors. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

So green for a green, like a weirdly, really.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

The green is the rye.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Yeah. And then they I think they have a blue. I think maybe. Yes, they have like a like a navy on the colour.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

It's interesting though that they are doing an engineer series, but they don't make it.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

I know, right? They're blending it. They're putting it together. I guess they're putting it together, which is assembly. Yep. Okay. Um, and so yeah, and they they're like I said, they're very transparent about it. They always, like I said, they are uh they are blending these and they don't have they try it and blend it all themselves. They they will not let anyone else do it.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

They're very big about like where it was where it was distilled, yeah. Blended and bottled by this guy and this guy. I I can't read the signatures, but they're on there. Yeah, that's cool. That is very transparent for a sourced company to be doing to that level.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

What's the distillery that was in Clintonville? Uh oh the wasabi whiskey for a while. I know they took over, yeah. Did they do wasabi? The karate cowboy, they took over that.

unknown 8:30

Oh, they did.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Oh, the uh 451, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

He he actually partnered or got brought on to distill for them.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

I actually like that karate cowboy, or not their their or whatever it was called. Wasabi thing. It was actually really good.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

It was a wasabi whiskey almost, yeah. But he uh he recently got bought out by these guys, yeah. Bought out, quote unquote bought out. So he works over there now as their distiller. And I think the goal is to work towards distilling the whiskey.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Yep. So they opened in 2019, so they are very young.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

I mean, that's a year before we did for the club.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

That was like COVID. Yep, yeah, yeah. Brass balls on those guys. Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Holy cow.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah, Joe Bettinger and Nicol Sheroff were the two guys. They do rye, they do uh Genevere. It's malt wine. Yeah. The silver grains, natural grain spirit, flavor of juniper, and other natural botanicals.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

But at a foolproof kind of foolproof. It's like that feral wine I was talking about. It's funny when they call some a foolproof spirit wine, but that's like a word that I think it's an wine, it's an older word than what we use. Oh, a thousand percent. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So that's juniper. Yeah, which is something that they make. Interesting. Anyway, they're getting way back to echo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are in Columbus, they are sourcing, they're in green, they're blending two different uh with this bottle of these two different uh distilleries, it sounds like one in Indiana, which has got to be MGP, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:03

But that that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Maybe not, maybe, probably.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Have you tried this likely? Have you tried this?

SPEAKER_00 10:07

More than likely. Have you tried it? I've tried it.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

Can you tell where in Kentucky and Indiana this is distilled from?

SPEAKER_03 10:13

I could give you they're mixed. How are we ever gonna know?

SPEAKER_04 10:17

Yeah, but okay, so could you tell for Whiskey Wars where it was?

SPEAKER_02 10:20

I could give you I could give you a guess of where I it is just based on my but based on the taste, no.

unknown 10:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Now what I what I want to know is this, because it's blended and bottled by. Are they getting like are they getting aged products and blending them, or are they getting products and aging them and then the products are brought here?

SPEAKER_04 10:40

They blend them and age them, right? And then they they age them here. Well, so they age them and then blend them.

unknown 10:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

So everything is burned over. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Well, that might be part of it.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

Because there I I will say So this is just a it's just it's a standard, it's just a blended bourbon bottle. And so, yeah, they're mixing, mixing from different distilleries.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Two different distilleries to blend it together.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Well, multiple more.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

It may just be more than two, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Well, I will say the way that this tastes, and it's not a bad thing, but so far what I'm getting is a bit of a disconnect. Like, like whatever's in there is not meshing together all the way. That's what I'm getting. It's not like it doesn't taste very like fluid.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

Okay, so let me put it this way: their engineer series, they put out once a year. Maybe they it's it's not very often they do the engineer series.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

They've got their own bourbon, and this one is the uh the what the Rogers?

SPEAKER_04 11:32

Be my neighbor, be my neighbor, but B for like honeybee kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

I thought B my neighbor, like rot like Mr. Rogers. Yes, but B is B-E-E. B my neighbor. But they're throwing a lot of shit.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Maybe they're talking about B's being your neighbor and not Mr. Rogers.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

But there's a sweater on it.

SPEAKER_04 11:51

I think they went off of we're local. This is very honey.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Won't you be my neighbors?

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah. But it is very much Mr. Rogers. It is. I like bees and I like Mr. Rogers. And I like this. I I just think that it does taste. I I can tell that there are two different products made into one. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Won't you be my neighbor? What is that? Two different neighbors connecting. A bee and Mr. Rogers. No, mist uh well, we're talking, okay. So if we're talking the idea of Mr. Rogers, right? Won't you be my neighbor? Neighbors connecting, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:32

It would almost be like doing a collaboration with Mr. Rogers Neighborhood and reading Rainbow.

unknown 12:37

Okay, so I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Which would be awesome, by the way. That would have been cool. Did they do that? Probably not.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

I do get quite a bit of honey off the nose. So I understand the whole bee aspect. The be my neighbor? I get it's a play on words. It's a play on words, right? So two different distilleries, be my neighbor, like working to join. You're gonna put your pudding down.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

So it would be like you and me, Chris, living next to each other. We are very distinctly two different, married to very two different women, two different households, but we would be our neighbors. And also like brothers.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Yes, it'd be more exactly, yeah. And also legally brothers. Right. Brothers-in-law. Right. And also, and also blood brothers. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Don't ask.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Don't ask.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

Don't ask, don't tell.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

It was a crazy night. Just insane.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Uh, but no, yeah, that's yeah, I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yeah, so these guys were both engineers before they started.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Oh before they started lyrical.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Series is an engineer series. Right. So that this is their series where they are blending in and putting this together and kind of mixing their passions in that way. Again, Blood Brothers. Blood Brothers. Blood Brothers. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

So mixing passions.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

Okay, so let's take a moment.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:55

Both engineers, they both have a passion for this. They both mix from very different sourcings. We also have had another bottle on the podcast that we have not loved from Columbus.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

That was mixing.

SPEAKER_04 14:09

And just letting them fight it out.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

And so that wasn't purposeful blending. That is a good distinguishing fact to make. This is purposeful blending. Purposeful versus just take it or leave it. You decide. You decide.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Literally written on the bottle. You decide. No, you should have decided, and that's why I am buying it. So I make enough decisions.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

I think both this bottle and that bottle were about the same price, about 70 to 80 bucks.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Okay. Okay. Okay. Interesting. 70, 80 bucks for this. Okay. And that range. From Echo from it for its sourced, blended, possibly MGP, and Bardstown. Collaborative.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

I would agree with Bardstown.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

You get what I say, what I'm saying there. Uh it's okay. All right. Well, let me drink a little bit more of it. Because I haven't drank a ton. I will say on the nose, you're getting sweetness, you're getting honey. I'm getting honey. Interesting. Which I don't, which I don't like. I do not like. Um I don't know if you it says at least four years. Yep, at least four years. And for anybody listening, something uh uh big thing to say. Uh what's it like 118? It is higher proof. It is higher proof. You are I don't know about you guys. I am tasting the proof, and not it not in a good way. Yeah, yeah. So I think that that's part of like why I'm kind of like right in a way, or like right away kind of thing, like a bitey kind of drink. I think it's underage. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it drinks young, like somebody that's got a fake ID and trying to hit the clubs at least four years, but um the proof is I don't know, it maybe it's the proof. Something about it that's immature. Yeah, yeah. I would agree with that. I think it could be because they're blending two different distilleries together and there's a disconnect. That's what I was saying in the beginning. So I'm not saying it's age, I'm not saying it's proof. It could be just the fact that you're having two different walks of life kind of merged together. And maybe if they had gotten these things and blended them and aged them and let them marry and season it for a few years and figure out each other's likes and dislikes, and maybe you do put your socks away when you take them off. You don't leave them by the bed, right? Those types of conversations. When you have that in a bottle, maybe it goes along together. It's more coalesced versus two different age things thrown together into a bottle and put out for consumption. That's what I was getting at earlier. I think maybe what they need to think about doing if they're not doing this is getting sourced stuff and then aging it together.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Marrying it first.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Marying it first because you need to work out like maybe maybe you do do the dishes, but maybe I take out the trash. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta figure those things out. Otherwise, you're gonna have a little bit of a period of like, you know, what you know, what what what do I do? What are my expectations? What are your expectations, right? And I think that you do get that sometimes with two different distilleries, especially something as different as Indiana and Kentucky. Water's different, ingredients a lot of times are different, distilling different. It's different. You're putting these two things together and you're forcing them to in a bottle, and then we're getting, and I think with the the combination of the two is making it taste young. Because it's not married together. We're dealing with 2019 start.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

Only five years ago.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Five years engineers, but they're sourcing, so really you can't talk about they're engineers.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Engineers. So engineers urban.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

We found that out. But what a lot of bottles on this podcast. We've been like, what's their background? Oh, they were engineers, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Was it chemical? What do we know? We know that they were engineers and IT.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

So the two things that were probably not chemical engineers, could be computer engineers, could be something like that.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

So not chemical engineers, most likely.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

So not the engineers that we've done before. We're talking, we're talking like computer IT engineering.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Which we have seen IT people do a lot of urban.

SPEAKER_04 18:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

That maybe they just have to say we have and so maybe they hired the right people because they utilize that. And then sometimes it's about hiring the right person, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:20

So we're talking five years in, no background for this, no chemical engineering, no anything for distilling. How long has Highbanks been around? Well, we're not I'm not comparing. So I'm not so what I'm comparing is what sorry, you don't want my answer to that. What I'm comparing is potential.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

I like Echo better than high banks, obviously. Well, so what I'm comparing is potential. I have no and I have no problem with sourcing.

unknown 18:45

No.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

And I have no problem with this bottle. But I'm gonna give you an honest assessment of what I'm tasting. Right. And that is that it is um not ready. It's not ready. And it will, and it's not worth them. I like it. It's good. It's not it's not anywhere close to what you say, 80, 90 bucks, something like that. Yeah, I mean, and that's what they should be selling it at as a as a local craft. However, you're sourcing, so you should already knock $20 off. $60 is your bread, bread and butter. You're sourcing, you're local, $60. That is it. Unless you're getting, unless you some some 15-year-old shit fell off a truck. Okay, chill out, right? You're sourcing stuff and you're putting stop. Okay, so $60 is good. This is way overpriced for what it is. This is the marketing, the local, there, they are yanking the chains of everything that people like. In the in the what two years ago bourbon boom was still going on. It's going away. We have craft now. We have big distillers realizing shit, craft is coming. We need to start getting product out there and we need to make prices the way they should be. People are starting to kind of tighten up. So that that whole like bourbon to be bourbon to be bourbon is gone. So you're not gonna sell shit based on that. That's my thing. And that's what these types of companies are doing, have been doing for years and profiting. But at this point, people are not gonna do that. So, unless you have an amazing product, your stuff better be cheap because what you're gonna do is you're tugging on the heartstrings of local, local, local sourcing. Okay, that's fine. I have no problem with that. Do it right, be transparent, which they are, but do it right, and you the price needs to reflect that. And I think that maybe they have some more room for improvement on this bottle. It's good, it's fine, it's decent. It's not anywhere close to $80.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

No, I would agree. I think $60 is better. Uh, my my thing with them is that I think that they are being subsidized by their rum business. Like rum, rum is where they're gonna be making money. This stuff is where they're still figuring themselves out. I think with them only being five years old, they're doing this, you know, once a year, maybe twice. It's probably not yearly, it's probably like some sort of a cycle, but you know, they probably have they've had less than 10. Right. They don't do very often. They're disconnected from it because their passion, their passion's rum, right? Well, I I don't know. It sounds like they're they're I don't know where their passion lies, but I don't think they've figured out whiskey yet. So the my question to them would be whether or not they want to release a bourbon because bourbon is hot and they want to do it, and and that's what this is, and they do a decent job of it, but it's just not ready. Or are they wanting to get into the whiskey business and they're just and they're figuring it out? And both of those things can be uh both of them make sense for this bottle. Neither one is saying that they're ready, but one is saying that it's a money grab, and the other one is saying that they want to get into it and they just haven't figured it out yet. And I don't know which one it is. Their marketing is very much like uh they're they're they're local, they're transparent. Echo is is saying that they are an echo of of times past and friendly neighborhoods and Okay. Everyone is I didn't guess that's where the name came from. And all that that's kind of the idea of it is that we are we're trying to go back an echo of times past is kind of where their name comes from and where they're what and what they'd like. They're located in Grandview and Powell, and also in Zandusky, way up in north. Three locations. Three locations. Grandview is where the distillery is. They also have a canned cocktail line.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Which I am all for that kind of stuff. Yeah. Like really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

You are?

SPEAKER_02 22:38

It's its own thing. Okay. That's it's it's its own thing. Okay. Okay. That's like I'm I'm not gonna ri review that or rank that on the same. So that's like root reviewing French fries at a hot dog place.

unknown 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

You're gonna talk about the french fries, but that's not what you're there for. If you're if you're a real reviewer, right? You get what I'm saying? Yeah. But like if you got good french fries and a decent hot dog, you might talk about the decent hot dog. And you might be brutal, but if they got some good french fries, you might be like, I mean, who the hell doesn't like french fries? They had some they had some decent french fries. You know, you get what I'm saying? Canned cocktail has its place, everybody likes it. You don't see it much, so when you do see it, you gotta enjoy it and respect it and and like it.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

I am I for me, I'm glad that canned cocktails are coming out and becoming more of a thing because it means that whiskey companies are not gonna become beer companies.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yes, yes, and I would much rather pull canned old fashioned than a than a natty light. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Like I think that's glasses.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

It's a good, like uh it's a good low-cost, fast money way of doing spirits so that people can get into it. And I'd rather them do that than beer if they're a if they're a spirits company. And so I'm glad that they do they do that because of that. But yes, that's that's kind of what their marketing is leaning towards, and they very much have more of a rum feel to them. Which I'm fine with. I've never tried the rum.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

I'm not we're not we're not reviewing the rum. Yeah, I think that it when it comes to sourcing products, we've had good stuff and we've had bad stuff, we've had teas and stuff. I think it that it and if you're not open to criticism on that, then like you need to chill out because you are sourcing at the end of the day, you're relying on another company to make the product completely. So what you're offering marketing and maybe a little blending, yeah. Maybe unless you're finishing or whatever. So, like you can't get butthurt, you know what I mean, about somebody ripping a a source product. I'm gonna rip this one a little bit, especially for the price. If this had been coming in at a lower price, okay. I'm gonna rip it for the price. It's decent, it's okay. I've had uh a hundred bottles that taste very similar. Uh it's there's a disconnect. What's funny is there's a disconnect between the two things in here. I think that there's they're they're at war, they're whiskey warring. This is whiskey war the way it should have been. Actually, if this was whiskey war, I would have been a lot happier with whiskey war. Whiskey war is so terrible that this makes whiskey war look like you know, this this is this this is what whiskey war should have been. There's a fight, there's a disconnect. Do you are you picking that up or is it just me?

SPEAKER_04 25:17

So here's what fascinates me. I'm thinking about local companies, distilleries that have sourced, whether to start or continue. Middlewest started outsourcing. Theirs was very mellow to the point where they changed from OIO to Middle West. And Middle West is stronger in flavor, stronger profile. It's a punch. Whiskey war, they didn't seem to give a crap. So they they just they threw it together and they said we'll go for strength or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

There was a lazy teenager version of uh mowing the lawn. Echo like the absolute bear effing minimum.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

But if you think about timing, Echo came out in the the era where we talked about proof. People wanted proof, they were tired of hum ho.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Right. It was starting to become that way in 2019. People were starting to let's branch out a little bit from all the this hits that for sourcing.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

Now, if they start distilling on their own, what do we go from here? Do do we go down to hum ho? Do we what what do we do?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

And I have no problem with a company continuing to source. We've talked about that, and we've had some really good source, but you know what's funny is Echo. I like Echo. Oh, yeah, I've tried Echo things, I like them. This is uh so I'm not gripe, I'm not take trying to say Echo sucks. It's the price tag, yeah. But the price tag in this specific bottle is really just the more I drink it, I really don't like it. I really don't like it. Uh so it's like even if if this was $40 and I were to drink it, I'd be like, I really don't like this. So but double that, like I'm really like struggling with it. Um it's just not cohesive. There's too much of like an abrupt for me. And in in if anybody's wondering what I what is he talking about? For me, when I drink it, uh it's it's young, it's harsh, sure. Whatever. I can get past that stuff. But the problem is with the flavor pro the palette on the palette, the flavor profile, I see it as like these. I've talked about it before, these ups and downs, or the undulations. These undulations is what I usually say. If you want to pick picture a color spectrum or whatever you want to do it, I I have a way of seeing it in my mind, it's probably super on the spectrum, but I I it can only explain it so well. And the problem is that there's a point when I drink this that I'm starting to kind of go through, and there's just like this big abrupt kind of traffic jam, like where these two flavors are clashing, and it's not an up or a down or a left or a right, it's like a really big and it causes a pause. And and in the that pause for me is such a problem that by the time I can kind of get through it, everything else is gone. And I'm over, I'm over the whole experience. And if if you were to pour me a glass of this, I would drink it and I would smile and I would not drink it again. I just don't like it. I'm having a hard time finishing this glass, it's just terrible for me.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

See, for me, it's I I don't have a negative connotation with this glass. I'm I'm okay with with most of the things in it. I agree that I think it's young or like has a younger kind of feel to it. It doesn't, uh it's not like uh it's not like watered down or like we're like young in that way. It has some deep flavor to it a little bit. It's definitely not watered down, and I don't have the same like response to the separation that you do. I'm I'm kind of okay with the separation on it. I do agree that this is not an $80 bottle. It's definitely more of a $60 bottle, and it's not particularly unique either for me. Like, I I think that like we said, I think there's a pretty good chance that this is Bargetown. I don't know if it's MGP or not, but if it's Indiana, it probably is. It's 100% MGP.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

But uh I put money on that, Nick.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

But like I think I I think my where my issue is is that 90% of the things that are sourced come from those two companies. So those are the two places. If it said Ohio on the thing, it would have been Middle West. And that's just though you know, that's where they're getting their stuff. And I like I said, I don't know which one of those two things they are. Are they trying to get into the whiskey world or is this just a money grab because bourbon is hot? Their latest purchase of five four five one says that they'd like to get into the whiskey world, and whiskey's going down now. And so that since they did that just last year, that means to me that maybe they do kind of like whiskey. And they like to get exactly so. Getting into it now to me means that they have a passion for it because the the hype is leaving. Like this is the down, this is the down stretch to it.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

They had that absinthe, that art, that art guy, Van Gogh.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so 451 is like nothing spectacular. That like that was nothing special. That was their thing, and then that goes to show you.

SPEAKER_04 30:20

No, I mean their garage whiskey. Exactly. They talk about I mean they're very small batch, garage styles, very garage size, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Yeah, um, but that purchase does tell me that they are at least interested in possibly doing something on their own, right? Doing some distilling, all of that. That that tells me that maybe there's some passion in it, and they just haven't quite figured it out yet. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

I think they're still trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

Yeah, exactly. They're they're in the figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

I'm not your guinea pig. That's the thing. That's my that's where I'll get a little upset. Yeah, because you know, I always talk about like, and I'm very forgiving with a lot of things, but when you throw a high price, and you're because you're tugging at the heartstrings of people like it's local, it's this, it's that, it's the other, but you're sourcing, fine, lower the price. Because when you're it's when it's all tugging and no giving, I get upset. And I we've tried stuff from Echo before and they did pick right, they sourced right, it was good. And for the price, I didn't care whose name was on it, it was good. And that's the thing about sourcing. I don't give a shit whose name's on it if it's good for the price. But if you're relying solely on your name and you're sourcing some questionable stuff, or you're putting it together in a questionable way, and you're trying to sell it for the same amount, that's where I start to get like, hold on, hold on a damn minute. It's kind of like this tobacco. We'll talk about the tobacco now. It's good, right? It's good, right? It's very good. You know why it's good? Because it's a very, very popular tobacco. Only normally it's called uh now Dunhill, now Peterson, uh, my mixture. That's what this is.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Oh, this is my mixture.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

This is a hundred percent my mixture, but they they marketed it as old Dublin, which is funny because before Dunhill sold out and became uh uh Peterson, right? There was it was Dublin, my mixture, or uh Peter or uh damn it, Dunhill, my mixture. And then I think you know, Peterson had this line, but it was the same stuff, and they probably did well with it. But the thing was because nobody bought Dunhill, right? It's the same thing. I can tell you 100% after I started smoking. I was like, hold on a minute, hold on a minute. So then I did a little research on here. It is the same thing, and it's made by this by the same company now, it's owned by the same company, made by the same company, which Peterson stuff was always made by STG, but Dunhill and same thing with Dunhill. It's kind of merged or whatever, but basically it's funny that they still offer this because people smoke it because it's old Dublin, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:45

It's a better name than my mixture.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

This is my mixture, this is my mixture, which has been a very popular, very one of the most popular and and and and usually one of the most bought brand, you know, basic pipe tobaccos out there. Right. There's people that this is their blend. Like, and I and I've smoked a lot of it, a lot of it. So I can say as soon as I lit it up, I was like, hold on a minute. And then I was like, Yeah, it is, it is, and I like it. It's good, it's great, it's fantastic, it's sourced basically. They have old Dublin. What's funny is they still offer my mixture. You can buy Peterson's of my mixture, or you can buy Peterson's old Dublin. It's the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

That's my problem. It's the same thing. Same thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

So if you ever see Peterson, if you like my mixture and you ever see Peterson's old Dublin on sale, buy that instead. It's the same thing, it's the same thing, and made by the same company in the same packaging with a different label. It's good, but it's not, yeah, it's it's not it's not original, it's not unique. I didn't I didn't have a new experience with this tobacco. I had a uh an old experience. And I do love my mixture, it's great. And I I it's a it's a mild English with a little sweetness to it. What do you think, Steve?

SPEAKER_03 33:53

I agree. It is burning hot for me, though. And I don't know if that's just because I'm puffing on it more or or or what I switched pipes also. It's a Cavendish.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Um, okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

So my mixture's always done that to me.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

That's why it's not my it's not one of my favorites. There's it's it's it's trying to be it's uh what they call an American blend. So when you take an English and you throw some American Cavendish in it, it becomes an American blend. It's a little sweeter, it's better smelling, softer. But if you if you smoke normal, like a normal cadence or or more, you're gonna get tongue bite. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. My mixture will give you tongue bite.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm starting to feel that. So I'm I'm slowing down to to to account for it because I know it's gonna come. It's a great blend, but you do need to treat it like an aromatic. It's an English, it's a it's a crossover.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

It's a it's an American English blend.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

And with this bottle, uh being 118 proof, is that right? Is that what this is? It was 118, I think. Yeah, yeah. So it's already it's already hot and it smokes hot. Or drink.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Which reminds me of cinnamon, which is what the nose is. So I'm like, I don't like it. Oh bad, all bad, all bad. This is the first podcast we've done in a while that I was like, not a fan.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Right. Yeah, no. I'm not a huge fan of it. I'm not like I said, I don't have the negative feel that you do about it. I just think it's it's just you know, subpar. Yeah, and uh the the the the price is is the biggest the biggest issue here in the very off chance that Echo is listening to this.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Sure. I've tried stuff from you before and I liked it. I liked it. So I'm not I'm not saying Echo sucks, don't buy Echo. I'm not saying that. This bottle does suck, yeah, and for the price, it really sucks, and I don't think it's good, and and I wouldn't recommend it. But I have had Echo stuff that I liked. So I'm not and I and I'm not anti-sourcing. We've talked about that. And I love how they're being transparent. They are being transparent, they are being transparent. Other than they're not really putting where they got this, which I get it. I get it. At least they put Indiana and Kentucky. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

I can figure out most people can figure it out. I just think that um it's not it's not well blended. These are not two whiskies that should be together. One, one, number one, number two, it's way, way overpriced. And again, if this was two whiskeys blended well together for that price, I would have no problem. You would not hear me griping about it. But it's not, it's just not. I think that they they said this is what it's gonna do. I think they had an idea. They had somebody come in or whatever, they had somebody sit down. This is what we're gonna do. We're gonna do these things, and it's gonna be this price. Period. They got the stuff in, and and this is the problem when you don't make it yourself. This is the problem you can run into with sourcing. They had this idea first, then they got the product, and then they put it together and they tried it. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, we're gonna do it. Boom, put it out there. No feeling, no emotion. No, I made this, this is what it's worth. No, nothing. And the problem with that's the disconnect. And then you're selling something because of what it is versus what it actually is. And I think if they had made this themselves, or if they had bought the stuff and blended it and tried it and pulled it, they had been like, okay, this is decent. We'll sell this at 60 or what this is really good. We're gonna sell this at 80. Well, we'll sell this at 120. Well, whatever, what eff it? Because that's the craft, the craft, the artisan, the whatever you want to call it, the hand touched. And again, you don't have to actually make the spirit to do that. We've had spirits sourced that were done well, and that they put a lot of time and energy and effort into it, and then made the price. I think that this one was the opposite. I think they came up with an idea and had a full price uh you know figured out, and then they got the product, and yeah, there it is, decent, decent, good enough, good enough, right? Good enough for government work, and here it is. And I'm picking up on that, and maybe some people won't, but I bet a lot of people will. I'm picking up on the fact that this is not right. This is these are not, and for the price, it is way not right. So that's my opinion on it. I don't hate echo, I don't hate sourcing, I do hate this bottle.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Yeah, I think they have potential, but I get what you're saying. I I it's I cringe at the price tag buying it and still trying it. I cringe at the price tag. But five years in sourcing and Steve asking, is it you caring or is it a money grab? Like, what is it? I look at this and go, you've got potential for caring.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

But you but you're but there's a money grab.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Yeah, and and it's evident. I get you have to make a profit, but the you you have so much potential for this bottle and for this engineer series that it's almost like you lost you have potential for the company, and I want that. I get that. Uh stop making a money, like stop pricing it.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

I think it's it's a struggle, right? And to me, I think that the distilling is good for an engineer.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Uh distilling is a scientific process. Yes. I think blending is an artistic experience. Yes. Steve, you nailed it. And so and I think that these guys are not really artistic, they're more, they're more statistical.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

And and they're the kind of guys that would come up with a this is what we're gonna do, and this is the price it's gonna be before they get the product, right? Exactly what I said. It's yes, with no with no artist ability, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:12

And so and and so I think if you are more of an engineer type person, I think you were will have a harder time in the blending world than in the distilling world. And so my hope is that they are going to start distilling because I think that they're I think that's that I think that they could be better and that they use their engineering experience to hire the right person, yes, yeah, to do it for them. So they they have hired a distiller. So hopefully that means they will have. Yeah, the 451 guy. So I mean, we'll see if that's what that is, you know. Um, you know, we we we have never had any of their bottles on or anything, but you know, we're we're we're generally not massive fans of their stuff. Um, but I don't think they're they're they're very young though, so you know we we that could change. Um, but yeah, so so we'll see what the future holds for Echo. Uh I think this bottle is a bit of a dud. We'll keep our finger on the pole, but we'll try more stuff. We have had other stuff from them that we have, like some like like like you said, Chris, we're not anti-Echo, but we are anti this bottle. Um, and I probably will not get the engineer series for a couple more years.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

It's funny you were supposed to buy this bottle, and I was like, This would have been your dud.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Steve, you would have if you had bought this bottle, you would be ripping it so much harder right now.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

You would be like really that dirty. No, you'd be like, listen to this.

unknown 40:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

No, hold the phone. I know I didn't buy, I was going to buy it because I don't own anything by Echo, and I was like, you know what? That's a that's a local distillery. I should own something by them. So I'm gonna pick it up and you just beat me to it. You got to a liquor store before I did. Fair. Uh thanks for that.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yeah, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

We all thank you, Nick, for paying the money for this bottle. Uh so we didn't have to.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

But um, hopefully our our next one's better. I agree. Hopefully, our next tobacco is a little better, too. Yeah, because it's good, but this was good.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

I think I just like I said, I think it's hot on hot, and it just didn't it is hot on hot, and it's something I've had a million times before with a different name, and that kind of makes me just go. We're gonna disconnect from this from this podcast. Welcome to the next one. Stay tuned for bigger and better things. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskey tasterspomblet.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.