Mckenzie Rye and the Story of Empire Rye

• Opened in March, not until August of 2007.
  • The Farm Distillery Bill was signed in August, making it easier for people to open farm distilleries and more like a winery.
• Founding member of empire Rye 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. Hello while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of the Whiskey Chasers.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

We were just talking for nothing. Yeah, you guys missed it because Nick Nick didn't push the button. I didn't push it. I was I was Me and Steve were over here just cracking jokes.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

I was scrolling on Facebook and I saw Tipsy had a really interesting blue bottle box, but it's for horse horse soldiers. Yeah, he does, but this one, I'm no thank you. It's a 250. Blue bottles, huh? It's a blue bottles, eh? Anniversary of United States of America for Horse Soldier. Uh 13 years old, 100 proof, $730.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Wait. Wait, I'm gonna call this right now. This year, there's going to be a whole bunch of those. Oh, a thousand percent. There's gonna be a bunch of nonsense go America bottles. But every year's like nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Every year's an anniversary, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

But this is the 250th. Oh, it's an even number. Yeah, it says this is like a big deal in the year. 250. 250, yeah. So why do I think it was more? I I've I've already I've already seen nonsense like Gulf of America, bourbon, and like things like like there's always things that are gonna be out there like that. They're just one-offs for random, kind of like our last company that we just did. They're gonna come out and they're gonna be a whole bunch of Go America bottles that are just money grabs.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Merka.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

And so, but something like horse soldier doing a 250 anniversary.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

But for that's but for that much money, it's only 13 years. That's kind of what are they doing to it? But is it in a solid gold bottle? Right. I like horse soldier. I love horse soldier, but that is a they must be doing something because that's a steep price.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

That's a steep price for a 13 year old.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

That's they're donating a whole lot of that that that yeah, it'll probably turn into a fundraiser. Is it weird that I thought we were in the 270s? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Now that you asked me, yeah, that is it.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Did that make it weird? Or I thought we were over 250. 1776. So 56.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

1776. Yeah, it's a minus 50 is 26. So but 17, 18, 19, 20. Yeah. 20. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it's a 276 would be the 300. But see, that's that's that's why. That's why. Because I was thinking 1770, yeah, 1870, 1970, then it'd be 2070. Yeah, it's where we'd be at. Yeah, that'd be the 300. That would be it. Right. So, anyway. Oh, yeah. We're just a young people.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

We are a very young people.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

We are very that's two generations of well, well, maybe a little bit more. If you live super long time, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

There actually is there's a thing with uh there is uh the third president of uh uh Harrison, uh President Harrison, his grandfather like died like last year because they just they were so old when they had their kid, had a kid. Grandfather, yeah. It was like it was like two, maybe it was a great grandfather, maybe it was three generations, but it was like this crazy long generation period of like, yeah, we were we were like very new. A normal generation is like 22 years, and so because that's normally when you have kids in your early 20s, so like normally that's kind of a normal age.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

That's crazy to think about, but yeah, so so we are a very young country, just not that long ago, and then you know, people talk about stuff that happened, you know, a while back, they're like that was so long ago, that we've moved on.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

It's like, but it really wasn't that long ago.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

People talk about other stuff, and you're talking hundreds of years ago, and they they they treat something 250 years ago like they treat stuff that was like a thousand years ago, right? Like the same, you know what I mean? Not not quite the same. That wasn't that long ago, yeah. And you know, think about it like if you went to World War II, that's really not that long ago. Yeah, there's World War II, but it's still alive, yeah. Yeah, but I mean if you were like fighting in World War II, that's even a younger country then, you know what I mean? That was like that was like a hundred and something, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

It was not that old country at that point alive like during like the old west, uh that were that were alive during World War II. That's crazy, and but they would be like 60 years old, like not even that old.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Yeah, so but but for back then that was old because those guys didn't they didn't make it that long, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah, but this bottle has nothing to do with any of that, nothing. We started on a tangent, it's gonna be a good episode. So it's gonna be great. We started on a tangent.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

This is Mackenzie. Oh man, a unsatisfying. I know. Um I think it's because you popped it earlier. You prepare. No, there was no there was no satisfying pop with this. You popped it earlier, yeah. But it wasn't satisfying. It's like he ruined the dinner. No, he ruined his dinner. It's not even a real cork. Yeah, it's not even a real quick over there. Just and it popped quickly. It did very quick, it was embarrassingly quick for you. It's because of the the cork, it's not a real cork. Always blaming it on the cork, always the cork's fault.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Always the cork's fault. Uh but yeah, this is Mackenzie Rye, filed in Bond, 100 proof, aged at least six years, at least six years, made in New York, made in New York, made in New York, made in New York uh by Finger Lakes distilling, fingerlings, finger links distillery.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

That's gotta be a play on finger licking, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

No, finger linking's is a thing. That's a whole area. I know, but it just sounds like uh I think finger licking is is more of a wing play.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Finger lakes? Yeah, the finger lakes. Never heard of that. Just sounds like there's like five much lakes.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

You've never heard of finger lakes? No.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

There's like five, there's like five hard lakes that kind of look like fingers. Chicken fingers.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

And you've watched the The Office. Yeah. There's an episode with Jim Carrey. You know, I where he talks about the finger lakes. Oh my family's going to finger lakes.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

I didn't watch the office obsessively like everybody else did. So there's lots I didn't get. I did watch it. Like, I'm it was like for me, it was like Seinfeld. When it was on, I watched it. The only difference is you know, Seinfeld's older, so I watched I've watched more Seinfeld. And uh when The Office came out, I was already older, so it's not like I've been in front of the TV as much. But I've never sat down and like like the people that can quote episodes like that, I've never had the time in my life to sit and watch it like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Oh, it's it's a very memorable thing. Maybe I could do it, but because he they they were interviewing him, and he's like, Yeah, there was a guy that just could not stop talking about the finger lakes in the entire interview. It's like, oh, my family's going to the finger lakes. Yeah, we're going up to the finger lakes. We're supposed to go to the finger lakes.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Kind of like the Catalina wine mixer. And they're they're known for the finger lakes region is known for wine. Like people people will go up there and go to wineries and stuff. And I like my in-laws and I went there two years ago.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

The finger lakes. To the finger lakes region. Fingerlings or finger lakes? Finger lakes. Like a lake.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

But when people say fingers. But when people say it, it sounds like they're putting it together into like this fingerlings. Fingerlings is what I'm thinking. Finger lakes. You know that word fingerlings? Like fingerling potatoes? That's what I hear. That's where those came from the finger lakes. The finger legs make fingerlings, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Finger lakes, New York. Is it five fingers? Is there five legs? There's the five lakes, and they look like fingers. They're kind of large. So they're just they're they're taking off from Michigan.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Is there like two fingers and then like a within a break, and then another finger? It actually looks like it's flipping you off, actually.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

I was thinking it was like a like a shocker.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

These two, these two legs, and then there's this one over here. There's nothing here.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah, we went to interesting. Uh we went to Seneca Lake, which is one of the one of the fingers. I don't know which one, but I know it's one of the fingers. But yeah, so uh it's a really pretty area. It's in northern north northern New York. Uh a lot of people go there, and like I said, lots of wineries there.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

I didn't know what New York was big into wine.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah, yeah. We're talking about New York, the state. The state, not the city. Yeah. New York City does not have any lakes.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

They don't have anything. I mean, but in New York, but in New York City, there's the five boroughs. Yeah, and that was the five points, right? Like Leonardo DiCaprio movies. New York likes five. Likes five, likes fingers and fives and rivers and lakes and all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Yeah, and high fives, yeah. Yeah, New York State or New York City is pretty much the ocean and Hudson Bay.

unknown 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

But uh yeah. So these guys are way away from the New York City, almost into Pennsylvania, like over on that side.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

I can't remember. Did when Hudson's came out, were they boasting that they were the first distillery in New York City or in New York? When did Hudson's just start? Uh they were saying it was the first one, either the first one ever or the first one in a very long time. I wonder if there can't be that many distilleries in New York because Hudson's was kind of like the big deal. And they were New York too. That's the only other one I can think of that was kind of a and then we had another one on the podcast that was New York. This is not our first one.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Teddy Roosevelt was New York. This one was founded in 2007. So this is been around for a while. This is one of the older ones. Hudson, New York was in 2003. Yeah, Hudson was probably the first, and so it was earlier, but these guys came out in 2007 and they opened in May of 2007, but like didn't they like got their license or whatever in May. Uh, in August is when they could actually start working because a law was signed into place for farm distilleries, is how they is what they named it or what they did with it. So they allowed people to open distilleries a lot closer to like wineries, like like the way wineries are ran. So more like a farm to glass distillery sort of deal, and you could open it with licenses closer to like a winery. Uh, so it made it a lot easier for smaller distilleries to open. So that was pretty cool. So they they they started that, like I said, back in uh 2007. Later on, they they founded the the New York Whiskey Guild that a lot of states and stuff have. One of the founding members of that, also the founding member of Empire Rye Foundation. So we'll we'll talk about that as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Because we did have an Empire Rye we had some Empire Rye on.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

So yeah, it's it's a cool it's this one has a little bit cooler story to it, which I like. We've never had it before, so we don't know if it's any good or not. I've never seen it before, yeah. Never seen it before.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

For something that's got like it's older, like it's it's yeah, it's it's like yeah, it's it's fairly old.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

So yeah, uh, what what are we smoking along with that?

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Speaking of fairly old, yeah. Um, so we're we're smoking three three nuns tonight. Just opened it up from Bell's three nuns. No, none nicer.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

None nicer. Like their thing.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

So uh three nuns is a very, very old, very old uh pipe brand that was discontinued a long time ago. And then it was brought back to life uh more recently by Mac Barron. Uh with the uh the one change that they added dark fired to the blend. So it's basically dark fired and uh Virginian uh this one doesn't. I don't know if this one has pre. I think it's mostly dark fired in Virginia in here, and it's like kind of a a unique cut. It's kind of like coins, but kind of not. It's like a rope that they twisted and then cut. It's a very unique. Uh you should smell this. And then this one's got age on it. This one's got like this is another one I had in the teller, the cellar for like, I want to say I've had this in the cellar for like 10 years, maybe or something. You see the it's like old. So the big thing about this is I mean, it's a legendary tobacco.

unknown 11:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Uh, and it's stout. It's always been listed as one of the best dark fired blends out there. What I don't know is Mac Barron, you know, Mac Barron went out. So I don't know, but this is still available to buy somewhat um on certain sites. So I don't know if this is like so is this MacBarron? This is Mac Baron. This is the original okay. I don't know if this is still getting made by somebody or not. So that's the thing. I this could be the last of it. You know what I mean? I mean, there there's a few tins out there you could buy it, but I don't know if they're gonna continue making that if somebody picked it up or not. I don't know. And you know, and I've never smoked this, I've never had three nuns. So have you had one nun? I've had three far three fryers, not had three nuns, or three nuns.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

So this should be this is this is all new, everything's new.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

It's all new, and it's it looked it's it looks like a decent, really decent bottle here. And then this looks the smell is unique.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

I I I keep smelling it because I'm trying to figure out what the smell is.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

When a lot of people fold and stuff this, because it comes, they always say that the one one of the things they always say about this is it comes perfect. Like it's it's like perfect smoking right out of the 10. Like it's just ready to go. Uh, but I rubbed mine out because I like to rub one out. You do like to rub it out, yeah. Um but you could fold and stuff, depends on how you want to get out. Could fold and stuff, okay? You could fold it and stuff it, you could rub it out. I'll leave that up to you.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Talking of smell on this guy, this this might be the first glass or bottle that we've ever had that if you if you were to to shake it around or move it up on your glass and let it slide down. Yeah, it is so oily. Yeah, oh yeah. And the smell of it is uh it smells, it has that oil smell to it, kind of. I live, I love a good oily. Oh, I mean legs for days, always lush. Like, like it is not coming down, like I she's viscous.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Let me see it. Let me I'm gonna try it in my glass. I'm gonna swirl it.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Like, give it a like it's it's impressive. Like nasty. Dude, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

It's clean into the glass, it's clean, it doesn't want to be.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

It is not coming down.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Think when's the last time we had a bottle like that? Dude, like I saw I smelled it when you popped the cork and you know, out of the bottle, it like whatever. But like now that it's in the glass, it's quite a heady nose. It is.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

I can't figure out what that smell is though.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Oh, this I I don't know. Uh it's tough because I have this tobacco here now. I haven't smoked it yet, but I'm I'm smelling both.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

We've had something now that is contained. That has that smell. It's almost like I want to say fish oil, but it's not fish oil. It's like it's oily, but it's like it's bright. It's bright, but almost dark at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Yeah, no, it's it's kind of uh dark in the way. Have you ever left um coffee in a mug or tea in a mug like in the morning and you come back to it at night and it's so thick. Yes, then have you ever drank it? Most people throw that out. I have drank it. It's real thick. Like it's been sitting on the counter all day, just in a cup, it's not sitting in the leaves or anything like that. It's not, but it's sitting in the cup, and just by itself, it's kind of like reduced itself down to like a syrup almost. Have you ever done that? Have you ever had that, Steve? Where you ever it's like uh it's like you're drinking espresso all of a sudden or something, you know, and it's like this is just regular drip coffee. Um, but that's kind of what it's like. It's like concentrate. That's what it is. Yeah, wow, that's so much more delicate on the that's very delicate. I haven't tried yet, so drink it because it's not I I thought it was gonna be so aggressive on the nose. But um, and it leaves a a ling like a lingering finish that comes right back up. Like it comes right it comes right back up your chest. How what's the proof on that? 100 bottled and bond bond. Oh yeah, yeah, you did say it was bottled and bond. Wow, that's it's it's very uh nuanced. This bottle it's gonna take me a minute to get into it. This is so much more nuanced than I thought it was gonna be. It's complicated.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

It is, it's like very sweet at the front, like almost like a chocolatey.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Malty actually. Yeah, like a like like whoppers, yeah, yeah. But then it's got some robustness that starts kind of like pounding, that's like pounding the drum. Yeah, and then it kind of settles into this like really interesting kind of finish that's almost like you know, the way Tinkerbell dances on the water. You know what I mean? Kind of like skipping from, you know what I mean? Yeah, uh, and then all of a sudden when you think it's kind of like over, you get this burn in in not like a burn, like you'd think of a burn, but like uh that warmth that comes all the way back up your chest, but it doesn't reach your throat. Did you get that? Did it come over? Also reminds me of like here and then just kind of stick up here for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

You guys ever had like so apple cider? We every Halloween we do like a spiked apple cider, but if you have that chilled, not even chilled, like lukewarm. That's what this reminds me of, Chris. It's almost that like lukewarm, hard apple cider that you spiked apple cider. It's got those spices going on with it. I see what you're saying, yeah. To where it it it it feels like that, like it's light because it's apple cider. So it's it's very light to begin with, but it also has those spices that make it slightly heavier.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

It's an interesting dance between a soft touch and a and a and a and a hard touch. It's it's delicate, yet it's got these these these baritone notes, along with like, you know what I mean? It's like a play on soft and hard, strong and light. It's very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Now are they are they farm to glass?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Okay. It's a farm to glass company. So everything's out there in New York. Everything's out there in New York. All of their stuff, I believe, or all their ryes anyway, qualify as Empire Rise. What is that?

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Uh I was trying to remember the classification.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

So an Empire Rye, uh, this in 2015 is when it became a thing. Uh, it is at least 75% New York state grown rye grain. Malted or unmalted, doesn't matter. Any combination. It's gotta be rye grain grown in but rye grain grown in New York, at least 75% of the of the mash bill. Remaining 25 can be anything that wants to be. Doesn't have to be New York, doesn't matter where it's coming from. Distilled at no more than 160, aged at least two years in new barrels, entering at 115 proof, mash fermented, distilled and barreled and aged at the same New York State distillery. So and they and you can have a blended empire rye from multiple distilleries, but it has to everything in it has to be qualified as qualified as an empire on its own blended together.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

You know, that means at every rye that's an empire rye, they're all stuck out. Did you hear that? 75%. Yeah, it's gotta be at least seven 75%. That's not playing around.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

No. I think this one's 80 and 20. If I remember right. 80-20, 80 rye, 20 barley.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

I believe you are correct. Okay, am I am I crazy? Or are you getting a little bit? It's it's not I know it's not, but there's like a wine finish type of a vibe happening.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

I get that, yes. I get a sweetness to it that I that definitely could be like a dry wine type of finish.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Dry, sweet kind of not, I don't want to say fruity, but you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Kind of like a it is fruity, but like like fruity in the sense of like red wine is fruity.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Yeah, fruity in the way that you would assume, like the way you would call wine grape juice. Yes, that kind of fruit.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yes. No, I don't think you're crazy. I think that's that is definitely there. So this is the second Empire Rye that we've had.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Steve, were you on that episode? I was. I don't remember who what it was though. Was it the Teddy Roosevelt bottle? No. That was the Empire Rag.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

I don't know if you were on the Empire Rye one. I think it was because he I remember him telling me about the Empire Rag. Because it was Cody was no, Cody and Blake were not Cody and Blake, maybe CJ and Blake. Because it was uh Kings County Empire Rye. Oh, then maybe. And that was like a hundred plus bottle.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Well, then you must have done the research for that.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah, maybe it may be. Maybe, yeah, because because it was a hundred dollar plus bottle, right? This guy rings in 50 or below. No. Oh, beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

This is an under $50 bottle.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

I think MSRP we're looking at 60. My bad. MSRP, we're looking at 60, so it might drop below. Dude, I'm two sips in. This is a dynamite bottle.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

This is a very risky.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

60 bucks. Dude, like I want to run out and buy a case of things. Where can you find this?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

I guess in New York. Where can you find it? I found it and then I found it at Citywide Liquors and in Mitchwalk, Indiana.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Okay. I haven't seen it since.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

I haven't looked anywhere. I mean, it hasn't stood out anywhere else.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

We're just we're just getting into it.

unknown 20:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

So I don't want to speak too out of time yet. But spoiler alert. Between this and Kings County, I would take this. I'm loving it. Yeah. This is really good. I'm excited. And then that price, I was about to, I thought this was going to be way more than that.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

I think this is about half the price tag of Kings County, I want to say. Kings County was expensive.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Well, it was really good, but it was really expensive. Actually, that makes me wonder now. Is Hut does Hudson's have an Empire Rye? They don't. What the crap?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah. And so now I don't know if their rye quali constitutes an Empire Rye, and they're not putting it on there. That I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Well, I'm sure if they use any rye, it's coming from New York. But that's the thing. It's got to bump up the percentages.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Hudson's changed quite a bit. So I don't know. Maybe back in the day it was Empire Rye. I don't know about now. They seem more along the lines of the bottle we had previously, where it is more marketed, more invested.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

They need a ri I like Hudson. I've liked Hudson since, you know, forever. And um I think they're moving away from some good things. Do they even have a rye? That's what I'm saying. I don't they ought to double down on their their New York. Roots. They ought to get into this Empire Rye stuff. They need to get their bottles back to where they used to be. What was ever wrong with baby bourbon?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Nothing. Nothing. I loved it. I used to drink that stuff all the time. So nothing for you and I, nothing was wrong with the baby bourbon, but it was very dusty barn.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

But for New York, that's not true. For some people, they don't like that. Imagine a d a dusty barn version of uh Empire Ride. That'd be quite some.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Okay, so we're we're talking farm to table. So we're talking we're talking Journeymen for New York. Yes. Is what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yep, this is a uh craft distillery. This is right up our alley. Um they have a very large still, and so like they're they're putting out a decent amount of product.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Is it like an empire still?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

It's it might be an empire still.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Is it an empire still building?

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yeah, and they've been around since 2007.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Is that right? Uh yeah, 2007. So they've been around a long time, and they have a lot of products.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Does New York have a lot of regulations for them to not go out of state, like sell out of state?

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

I mean because I'm trying to figure out right now where where have they been? Like this is really good. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

And I've never heard of it. Right. Maybe this is just something that you drink in New York. Why haven't they branched out? There's been other companies that have branched out that were aren't even like close to this.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Fair. I mean, that is fair because uh Widow Jane comes out of New York, right? Well, well, I mean You mean MGP.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Oh, hey, uh the story. Although now they're owned by uh Heaven Hell. Heaven Hell, yeah. Hudson does have an Empire Rye. Oh, they do, they do, yeah. So there are a total of 16. There are 19 distilleries that make an Empire Rye.

unknown 23:55

Really?

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Did you so there's a decent number of them? Did you Google was Hudson's first to New York?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Oh, I didn't I didn't know. I think they were.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

I think that's their claim.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

But have come since uh the the Rough Rider. Rough Rider was number was the newest one in New York City.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

I just remember I when I I watched a thing or read an article or something about Hudson's a long time ago, and they were a big thing was that they were either the first in New York or the first in New York State. Um either since Prohibition or ever. I can't remember. I gotta think since Prohibition. Like there had to have been one at some point.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Did you oh they're they're Hudson's is owned by William Grant. That's why it's changed.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Yeah. I wonder if that's why it's changed so much at the Scotch Company. So they they were acquired. Yeah. That's why they've changed. Yeah. I mean, I get it, but that's why they're different. Man, they kind of lost something. But they're still getting made at their own distillery and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

For the club, we we have a Hudson's Hudson's baby, like what they transitioned to for the club this year. Oh, yeah. So we might have to have a single barrel version of it. So we might have to have it against a Hudson's, a true Hudson baby. A true Hudson's baby. Yes. This might be the bastard child.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

They were they were the first New York state first for a long time. Since prohibition, I think. Yeah, since prohibition. They they changed the craft distillery rules and all that.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

They were the they were the did you see the did you see that bottle? You've seen my my old bottles. That that that thing, the new one's sort of like absolute dog crack. Right. Just they're terrible, dude.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Do we have we talked about or do we know what what causes the bourbon to be so oil, the whiskey to be so oily? Oh, we talked about it.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

There was there's some scientific Steve went down to do a whole scientific scientific-y thing. It's it's it's molecules and stuff. It's it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

It's molecules. Okay, so I bring that up. Can you guys think of the last time we've had a glass on the podcast that has been this oily?

SPEAKER_03 26:05

We don't uh I don't podcaster no. I can't think of the last, but I have had a few that I've commented on. This is thicker than, you know. I mean, this is thick. This or that, but this is the thickest um whiskey I've had in a minute.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

But it's also full flavored. Like it's it's not it's light to the taste on the palate. Uh uh, I don't want to say this. It's the mouthfeel you're talking about. The mouthfeels light.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

The mouthfeel. The mouthfeel is very light. But not in a not in the taste. It's not syrupy in the top. There's so much going on. Yeah, the texture is syrupy.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah. For a whiskey. Uh, so pot distilling creates more legs. Uh, and the the less uh copper contact allows in the worm tube and everything to to make it add more tail to the whiskey, more of the tails is is good, and that's what makes it oily. They're pot still.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yes, they're pot still. You know what this reminds me of, Chris? Willet. Oh, in the uh yeah, in the in the viscosity, yeah. Yeah, but the nose reminds me of a willet. It reminds me of not Johnny Drone, but um maybe Bard, not Bardstown. Maybe one of them.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

It reminds me of the I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Uh in the on the nose.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

That oil, that kind of reminds me of me of the reserve, family reserve.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Yes, that like oily It's not fish oil, but it's like this can this is gonna sound really weird. You have those smells that take you back to memory, a moment in time of childhood or what you used to do, right?

unknown 27:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

My parents uh used to own a uh machine shop, they owned it for 30 some years, worked there, grew up there, was around machine oil all the time. I was gonna say, I know where you're going with that. This this reminds me of the smell of thick oil. Yeah, they're like I used to that like hot oil, machine oil.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

I used to cut and thread pipe. Yeah. And it's the same oil that they use. If you've ever cut or thread or seen it done, you know, it sticks in this machine, and as it's cutting, it's literally uh pouring oil on the on the metal to keep it, you know, rubbing and uh and the friction and all that stuff. And it's it's that it's like motor oil, but it has that smell, but it's like that's lighter, it's lighter, it's hot, it's very yeah, I get what you're saying. And there's there's a difference. Literally, this is what that that reminds me of.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

The smell. So maybe the smell. The hot oil smell, like when you're you're threading it, yeah. That's what it reminds me of. When the oil the oil is like cooled down, it doesn't remind me of it.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

I'm not describing something that sounds good to drink, but it's it's if anybody's ever been around the oil we're talking about, they're gonna get what we're saying.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

I mean, like, there's those people that do that, and that you like live in that. Like you, your hands are still oily, you're still gonna eat chips, you're gonna eat food, like you don't care. You don't wipe them off.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Yeah, it's it's it's that to me. It's this is oily the way that fat washed whiskey we had was. Yes. Remember that, Steve?

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

What was that fat wash stuff that I can't remember what it was that we had, but you know how they they fat washed it, and it was kind of it was kind of oily, buttery, kind of in the texture. Viscous, it was thick, viscous, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was yeah, and that's that's in the mouthfeel, it's kind of how this is. But flavor-wise, it's wonderful. Yeah, there's so much going on. Up and down, kind of a of a weird, you know, um uh uh type of highs and lows with the flavors. Um, but then it's got this kind of like like you you call it malty chocolatey, kind of malty, and I get that it's very dry in the way a wine is dry. Um but it's got sweetness to it, but not the way wine is sweet, but something else. But the combination between that dry malty and the sweet is like the combinations that wine produces, yeah, without the with it being a different flavor. It's very interesting. And I love now, I I'm not getting as much of the afterburn of it coming up the chest as I was, but I'm still getting a warmth in my chest from it. And for it's it's it's all flavor because it's not proof.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

No, right.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Um, and I love that. It's great, it's just a very warm of for something that's so warming and and filling, it's also leaving me wanting more. What yes, what's weird, which is an interesting thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Do you guys remember the old I say the old days, our our childhood days, when the the VHS player or the DVD player, when DVDs came out when they were the new thing, they trade our VHS's in for. So but there weren't, so you weren't playing the movie, you weren't on the menu, it was just paused for a long time. Yeah, and they had the DVD symbol going from corner to corner, right? The screensaber. And it would like slowly hit and then bump. Every now and then it would sit hitting the corner. Yep, yeah. This is like when you first sip it, it's like 10 times speed for jumping, jumping, jumping. And then as you swallow, it like slowly starts doing like the DVD thing where we're we're slowly starting to get more flavor, but it's it's a progression along the way. But the minute you try it, it's like boom, boom, boom.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Yeah, yeah. It's definitely slowing down into like a slow motion, but not stopping.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

And I think by the time that the finish is over, you've forgotten that you were experiencing it still.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

And you're like, I I want more.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Like I I need to. But you've you forgot that you were actually still experiencing it. And that's a that is a fade to black. I mean, that is the perfect cutout. You know what I mean? So we don't you you it was so gradual, you you know, it completely slipped your mind. When's the last time we had a bottle like this? Well, I do know I was gonna say I don't want to talk this up too much. It has been a while since I've gotten very excited about it on the podcast. But it it this has been it's been a while since we've had since I've had anything this really good. Like this is surprisingly good. This was a random good, but this is something I want to chase after good. I hate that it's in New York because I want to I want to do everything. This is like I'm excited about this company. Like I'm excited about everything about this bottle so far.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

We've talked about and at a price tag that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Yeah, yeah. You were about to ask, do they do they do more than just this? Oh, they have lots of things, so yeah, they they have a pretty good array. Um they have they're they're a regular bourbon, they have a bottle and bond bourbon, a small batch bourbon, they're a straight rye, bottom bond rye, and they have an American single malt. Okay. Uh I can see that. A pure pot still whiskey. Was that like an Irish? I'm sorry, pure pot still? Looks like an Irish. Yeah. An Irish-inspired pot still whiskey.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

So maybe that's a New York thing. Because um I mean, it's Irish. So yeah, I mean it's Irish. Yeah. Um, but uh gosh. Um the other wonderful Empire Rye, the uh Kings County, they do a a what they call an American single malt, but it is uh it's Irish whiskey inspired. So it's more Irish whiskey than American. Okay, so maybe an Irish single malt. Right, which is weird, but uh maybe it's a New York thing, maybe it's uh Irish descendant New York thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Blended. I don't know. They have a blended, um, vodka's gins, all that kind of good stuff. Is that a cherries thing? They they do not have a cherry bounce, they do have uh flavored liqueurs. Uh they have a uh a white dog, corn whiskey. So they got all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Their gin looked interesting, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

It it okay looking gin, uh cool bottle, Seneca drums.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Yeah, I like the blue and the green.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Um they're on Seneca Lake, so they're they're also in that same area. Bardette, I think, is the name of the town. Um another thing they do, and we've we've come across this with a few different smaller distilleries, and this uh I'm I'm pretty comfortable in in maybe doing this myself, so we'll see. But they have a thief and mullet mallet club, and so which is what they call a thief and mallet. Yeah, pound it back in. I don't know. Uh, but they have a membership and it's $90, which is not that might be the cheapest one I've seen yet. Of a year, $50 a year. What do you get? What do you do? You get a bottle. Uh that pays for itself right there. Jeez Louise. A bottle shipped to you, early access to distillery exclusive single barrel releases, club uh single barrels, five percent discount on all online purchases, a t-shirt, and an invite to an annual members-only party. Done. That's 90 bucks. That's kind of something I want to do. Next one up, 160. What's the next one up? 160. Yeah, when you get two bottles, I'll tell you, done. And and a quarterly, a four-bottle a year for 280. That's even cheaper. So, yeah, it gets cheaper as you go.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

When you level up, do you get anything else extra?

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Like a hat or something. Um, the t-shirt in the first one, you're gonna get your your discount goes up. So instead of five percent, ten percent, fifteen percent input into single barrel releases. Input like they'll send us something, and we'll I think input like you get to talk about it. Yeah, so possibly you possibly a sample. So, can the podcast do this? And we'll just get into thinking that might not be a bad idea.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah, maybe we'll just send up something.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

But yeah, you get a bottle, your initial purchase, and then three more bottles shipped in the closest quarter or whatever. Do you choose or do they choose for you? I think they choose for you. So they just sent you something. Shipping only available to hey, that might be where it gets weird. Shipping only available for New York residents for non-New York residents. Follow sign up link for more details.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

They gotta send it to a store.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Discount uh does not apply for special or limited releases, but they do have a distributor in Ohio. So wait, what I think, yeah. So I I I clicked on their where to buy, and there's state by state list, and Ohio is listed. But I've never seen this bottle here. Why would you it's not for sale? Just ship it, it's not for sale in Ohio. That's a thing. Uh there's a distributor, so this uh uh Skirnik, Skirnik Wines and Spirits is apparently some some as some distributor. I clicked on it and said, Look, and they they do meet primarily wine, but they have you know that that that's probably their access point to to send stuff to us, but yeah, I'd be I'd be super, I would be willing to pay 90 bucks for that. Yeah, yeah, I like that. So, but that's an interesting way of also doing this, and you you know, you get a bottle, you get a t-shirt, you get some discounts, and you get to, you know, all that kind of stuff. So it it very much pays for itself. Also, they do have a barrel picks program that's a little different than we've seen before. They have a uh make make your own barrel, the master distiller. It's ten thousand dollars, so this is an expensive sort of deal, but it is a full service five-year kind of deal. You go, you help create the mash bill, you barrel it, and you can go back. Uh up to 10 people can go back once a year. How much to sample it? 10,000.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

And how big is the barrel?

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Uh it's a full-size barrel, so you you're done in the end, you get it roughly 175 bottles, and you get to keep the barrel.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

So that's a pretty decent deal with with the with all the input that welcome to bring up to 10 people total for this experience every year.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Uh, yep, to split the final yield of roughly 175 bottles. So this is a cool little company. Did we find out why it's named that?

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Did they talk about that? Is there a story or something?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

What McKenzie? Yeah, it's the the owner's name is Brian McKenzie. That's it. Yep, good, easy enough. Easy enough, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

I like that. That's straightforward. Straightforward. Uh and it's not like he's gonna sell that probably, right? I like that.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Yeah, uh, it's finger licks distilling, finger lick and good distilling. It gives you your location and then his name for the bottle. So yeah, and and he's the he's he's the guy that started it, and he's the guy that that joined the the guild and the Empire Rye uh system and all that. So he's very connected with all that, but yeah, they're they're just there's still that's there is a 350-gallon pot still, so it's a big boy, along with now a continuous still and a copper thumper and uh all kinds of stuff. So they've been going now for a while. They have a tasting room, they have a warehouse and all that built up now.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Oh, this is the picture of the finger legs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

It kind of does look just.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

It looks like fingers, kind of does look like I never would have said that look like fingers.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

So, and the single malt that they have came out in 2019, it was their 10-year release. I might have to pour it and it's a it's a 10-year malt, this one's got a few pours in it out of out of me. It's a 10-year-old American single malt.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

10-year-olds, yeah, which is uh so uh not very many do 10-year-old single malts. No, I mean it hasn't been New Holland does one, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

But I've seen that means they thought about doing an American single malt before it was really yeah, a thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Uh in uh out east, it was a bigger deal. So like Virginia was was some of the first people to do it, and it's but they didn't set it aside space, they were like one and done, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:26

So they don't have 10-year-old stuff who in Virginia that they're putting out.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

They have an 11-year-old, they have an 11-year-old, I think. Yeah, they have old stuff though. Um, they're a pretty big player in the American city.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

They were one of the first big ones to do start doing it.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

I just didn't think that they did like older stuff. I thought they put it out young. I can't get over how affordable this bottle is. So, okay, let's talk about that. The last one you guys asked, how did this bottle come about? Why'd you pick the bottle, right? I grabbed this guy because of the look. It does look cool, it looks old school. It's distilled, it very clearly says kind of Victorian. Yeah, very clearly says it's distilled by them. We've done New York rye before, we've tried Empire Rye. We I love it, I think it's fantastic. Never seen this bottle before. This, after trying it, screams exactly what I had in mind or thought for Liberty Pull. This company has just as much potential as they do. And the question for me is where the hell have you been? Well, and they've been around. Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Like they're just not getting out. Why don't they're not going out to parties on Friday night? They're staying, they're staying in.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

But my question is, why why why are we not why are people not screaming about this? Right?

SPEAKER_03 40:40

You said the same thing about Liberty Pole, right? So if we talk about like New York, I think that they're they're successful and they're happy and they just haven't branched out all the way.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Maybe because I mean like Hudson Baby was one of the first ones to come out from New York that we saw. We were like all for it. Gung ho, all for it. Then we had um Rough Rider, gung ho, all for it. Kings County's coming out of New York. That is harder to get to this, but it's still out there, and people are are raving and craving about it. This guy, this guy's been around the one of the longest, but no one is talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

No, I think I think part of it is that because they're in the finger lakes, that is a destination area. I'll bet their distillery is very busy. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

I think they're like Liberty Call, they're they're busy enough that they don't feel the need, maybe so much.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

I think people are going to them. They don't need to go out.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Like they they they want to branch out, but there's probably no pressing urgency about it because they're doing just fine.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

And they're farmed to they're farmed to bottle, so that limits limits production.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Does limit production you don't want to limit sacrifice quality for yeah, because who did we talk to? Uh, was that Liberty poll that was saying that too? Or we were talking to somebody, or maybe it was Journey. We were talking to somebody who is actually actively concerned about distribute like widely distributing their stuff because they just did not have enough. Was it iron ball? They didn't have enough to put out, they just don't have enough to put out, so it's like they're being successful, but they're not trying to take over, you know what I mean? Because it's just when you do that, you're gonna have to sacrifice quality. And if you sacrifice quality, you're just another crap brand out there, you know. I mean, there's only so much you get what makes it special is gone now, you know. So, I mean, that's something too to have in consideration for like like being successful versus being like in every freaking state, you know, you don't want to get too big too quick. And if you can't do it and keep the quality, then you don't want to get big at all.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Is Empire Rye any uh would you say Empire Rye is in the same category or anything similar to the category of Pennsylvania rye?

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Uh like what do you mean? Like uh that it's been around for a while. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

But it like it's his it's it's storied, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Yeah, it's a historical kind of but they just kind of brought it back. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Okay. That's what I was trying to figure out.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

I thought too like the the idea of of saying that we are only New York grain growing and stuff is is some is a newer idea, but New York rye is has been around for a very long time. And so this is a like a 75% rye.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

Yeah, kind of an idea, etc.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

I don't I don't know that like a mash bill is particular. I think it is a I think it is a strain of rye that grows in New York. Yes, I was popular in New York. It's more like a Pennsylvania, like the Monagahala exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

And it's it's one of those that like the Monagahala is a style. It's it is their style, it is kind of their rye. This very much tastes the more I drink this, this is old school. This is very much like Liberty Pole in the Monagahala style, but it's a different flavor. Yeah, it's an old school style that I would expect to go to a speakeasy and get. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 43:56

Oh, yeah, it's very old school. It's very egg or Alan Poe, very uh Rainy night kind of a thing. I think Jack the Ripper. Yeah. Things like that. But it's it's a different tasting type of rye as well.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Yes. But it is a hardy rye. It is hardy. But it's also very friendly and hardy, which is interesting because Liberty Pole does unmalted and malted rye within their mash bill. This one is not that. This is very just unmalted rye and malted barley. Right? But it brings out a unique, deep flavor that you would not expect for a rye. It's almost like what they said there. Liberty Pole has this idea. Remember, we talked to them, and I think it was Rob that mentioned his love for rye, but then mentioned the idea that that drinkers, I don't want to say Americans, but whiskey drinkers don't understand the full depth and complexity that rye can hold, that rye can have.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Well, it's something we've known for a long time that other people are just starting to figure out.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

But this this shares along with that story.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Well, I was just, it's interesting. It's it's it's kind of like a strong woman, you know what I mean? Like capable of like, you know, some like some crazy actions, you know what I mean? Some like like a mother protecting her kids or something, like straw, like a strong woman, but still able to be soft in the like a delicate. Right. Men don't have that ability, right? We can be hard, we can be tough, we can be this, we can be that. But we can't go from that to soft. We just can't. Like we can we can get close. Not only you get close, but I will never be able to comfort or breastfeed a baby the way that my wife can. But she can get tough if she needs to. You see what I'm saying? They're capable sometimes of both. Whereas a man, not so much. Maybe they can't get to our level of aggression, but they can get aggressive if they need to, you know. But that's an interesting concept that to for such a strong flavor, it's still delicate. That is a powerful combination that you don't normally get. It's usually one way or the other, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

I can't think of anything else like any other whiskey or type of whiskey that can do that.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

In all honesty, I I I mean, I well, it's not something you think about in a rye either. Right. You might get a rye that's soft or you get a rye that's harsh. This is a ride that's kind of both.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

It jumps.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

And I love it for that. I'm appreciating the shit out of this.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

This is really good. It's a very good rye, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Like the more we're all on our second glass. If you're called this for another one. Oh no, no, we're on a second glass. And I just am just taken aback that this is kind of this was a random pick. And I'm just I love it when we get something that's unassuming. Like we know none of us went into this thinking this was gonna be mind-blowing, but I think we're all kind of mind blown right now.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

This is very much something that we could open and finish in a day and be fine in a couple hours of business.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

Right. Like, this is why I love craft whiskey. It's is because of this, and it's and really it's because of tonight in general. You know, we we have had two episodes tonight. Uh, the first one being a dud, and this one being extraordinary, and and they're they're ten dollars apart in price. You you you bought you bought them at the same time, at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Same place, yeah. And it you just never know what you're gonna get, which is crazy because the one that is the best is the one that is you would miss. Like there's nothing, it's old timey.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

I think based on the look, a lot of people would pick the other one up of the bottle. Although I liked this bottle the way that bottle looks better.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

I love the color, the like this like cream color that's on this. It's very good. Yeah, it's like faded wallpaper.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Yeah, you've been smoking too much wallpaper, that's what that is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's your grandparents' wallpaper, right? Oh, a bit of a tar ass. It's yellowed, yeah, but in the right way. Yes, nicotine target.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Speaking of smoking, before we get too far away from the top, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

How does this go with this guy?

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Because I've you went off of just the look of the tin, right? It's uh so from what I you know, I've researched this blend for a long time. It's one that um it comes up a lot. Uh it's one of those blends that have kind of been a staple for a long time for a lot of people. Kind of like cat uh capstan blue or uh Orlet Golden Sliced. Um, there's certain tobaccos that are just kind of staple tobaccos. And for the for the average pipe smoker, they'd be kind of boring because they're kind of like straight tobaccos, right?

unknown 48:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

Maybe a navy, a navy flake or or or straight Virginia or some or a vapor, you know. They're very kind of you know, basic, but they're like legendary for a reason. They've been around for a long time. That's what that's how this is, you know, three nuns, none nicer, you know. Um, and this is their original one. So I've been wanting to try this for a long time. When I bought that, I had the intention of sellering it and someday popping it. I I can't speak to how much the age is done to it. I don't know because I've never had it before. But what we're smoking, and it's a it's a drier tobacco. That's one of the things a lot of people say that you can just smoke it right out of the tin. It's an interesting cut, it's not smoking quite as easily as the Royal Yacht, but again, that's a ribbon cut. Yeah, but if I quit talking and smoke it, it wouldn't go out. Flavor-wise, it is a there's a lot of dark fired Kentucky in here. You can tell.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Do you think the flavor has anything to do with the cut? It's a weird, weird. Well, the cut does change the flavor.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

It does.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

And it is an interesting uh cut, and I really like the cut. I think I think it it packs nicely. The way, I mean, if you didn't, if you didn't rub it out the way, if you pulled it stuffed, I think it might smoke better. Yeah, I think so. Um, I mean, it's it would be more circular, it'd be more of an intense. You can only stack it like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so like I I like the cut of it a lot. And you're right, there is a lot of dark fire in it, which which adds some spicy notes to it or or some spiciness to it. And I don't know if that's building off the rye or if it's adding a spiciness to the rye, it's going well with it, or if the rye is adding a spiciness to the tobacco. I'm not sure which, but either way, it's working.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

It's working, yeah. It's working. Yeah, and it's gets kind of raisin-y on the uh smell and everything, but uh I think there's a little burly in there as well. It's great, it's a great tobacco. It's one that uh I hope they're still making it, uh, because I think that it would be one that I would keep in the rotation. I mean, it's it's just kind of a basic blend, but sometimes you want that. And I I think this is one of those blends that you would reach for specifically every now and then.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not an everyday smoke. No, it's not it's a pretty intense smoke, actually. I think it's I think it's one that's full flavored. You would you would you would reach for it when you wanted it.

SPEAKER_03 50:50

Yeah, yeah. It is full flavored though. Yeah, it's I don't know, I like it.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Yeah, which is interesting that it's going as well as it is with this, because I also consider I consider this rye a fairly full flavored rye.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

It is very full flavored. That's why I was curious. What's keeping it from being overpowering is its soft side, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

It's very full flavored, but still like it's it's light. I keep going, I I know it's thick, viscous, but it's also very light at the same time. It's not heavy on the palate. I think maybe the visc, the viscosity is playing into that where it's it's syrupy, but it's not like deep. It's strong, it's strong and delicate.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Like a beeswax candle. Yeah, yeah. It's very like it, it smells intense, but if you light it, it really doesn't have a smell. You know, it's it's like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Because we've had some very thick, heavy whiskeys where it's like I'm I'm drinking coffee right now, like very thick, full flavored. It it's a meal in a glass. This is not, this is an appetizer.

SPEAKER_03 51:49

Well, it well, but it's so filling without leaving you satiated. Yeah, it's so weird because it's like I'm not getting stuffed from it. You know what I mean? But it is maybe this is not like it's not light either, you know what I mean? Yeah, it I think it's more like something that you could just keep. It's the thing that's really hardy, but you can just keep eating it.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

It's uh it's a uh uh like just a like you know, people put out like a charcuterie board or whatever, you just walk by and always grab a piece of it.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

You keep eating it and eating it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Yeah, it's like that.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

I've been trying to figure out what this reminds me of. Just not flavor, just in and drinking it. It is Liberty pulls peated rye in the sense that A, we could keep drinking it and never get tired, B, there's so much going on, but at the same time, it's not driving you crazy. My it's a thought process, trying to figure out what it is. It's not it's not driving you crazy, right? It's not overblown, overpowering, overloading your brain, but you're still every time you drink it, like, I know what it is.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

I get that I I think that yeah, so it's kind of like the starry night or the Mona Lisa. It's artwork that is beautiful to look at, and you keep looking at it and you might discover new things, but ultimately you're not losing your at least me, I'm not losing myself in it. It's not so much that I'm like really working hard to figure it out. Right. You get what I'm saying? It's kind of on the surface, however, it's so beautiful and intricate that I'm appreciating new aspects or or more aspects every time I'm you know interacting with it.

unknown 53:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

I love this story night. It's one of my favorite paintings of all time. And I do I like the Mona Lisa too, but it's the same way. I've I've stared at that thing for a long, long time, but I don't get tired. It's not like I have stared at artwork that I'm like, it's too much. There's too much going on. Or I'm or I'm a thinker, like I'm thinking too hard at this. Do I understand what it means? Story night is not about understanding what it means. It's actually about we're not understanding anything, right? Like that's what life is. Like it's it's it's beautiful. It's and yet it's understand not understandable. It's vast. You know what I mean? That's the whole idea. It's that's what makes it beautiful. However, like I appreciate it and I don't want to quit, I don't want to look away.

unknown 54:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

But I'm not getting overtaxed by interacting with it. Right. That's what I think this is like. It's also really hard to get offended at that. Oh, I don't know anybody that's like, fuck the story night. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Right, but that's also this bottle. It's really hard for I feel like after drinking this, it's really hard at the look of the bottle, the label, everything, taste flavor. It's really hard for anyone to be like, I am offended by this.

SPEAKER_03 54:27

Well, for such a powerful, stout, like overwhelming flavor, it's also got those delicate sides that make you like not. I don't think anybody would be like, This is too much for me. But that nobody would be like, This isn't enough.

unknown 54:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

And the proof point on it is perfect. I think any more or less, and you're you're you're playing around with something that's you're playing with fire. Well, it's not gonna be good, I don't think. I think I think any more or less, and this thing actually is gonna not be good. Or not as good as it is. It's like they they they got it at the perfect proof point. I mean, I it's been a while since I've been this giddy about a bottle. I'm pretty happy with this. And for that price, I I I wanna I want it, I want a backup, and I want to see more of their stuff. That's how excited I am.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Again, I don't know how they aren't in every state. Like this is for everyone. Anyone can find this and be like, oh, done. I'll buy it. It looks great. They try and they go, wow. Either I was not expecting that, or this is so friendly. Let's keep drinking. It's it's the unassumed bottle. I mean, it it and it's a company that's actually doing their stuff, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

It's all theirs.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

I'm I'm looking at the website as you're pulling it up, and it just looks like a legit. It's a good, like, yeah, like like well-run people actually work their website, you know.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Right. Because you mentioned proof, so I wanted to look at their just straight rye. And it looks like that's uh it's like 91 proof.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

Nice. So they're they're a proofier. Well, they're bourbon. What's their bourbon at?

SPEAKER_00 56:01

Uh their bourbon is at their regular bourbon, straight bourbon is at the same 91.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Nice. So they're not they're not playing around with 80 proof nothing.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

And then that's great. Yeah, they're and that's a bourbon.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

That's a McKenzie as well.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Yep, they're yeah, they're all called McKenzie.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

All their bourbons are rise, but their other stuff's called other stuff. Yeah, they're the company is the the finger legs. Finger legs or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 56:24

Yeah, yeah. What's crazy is okay. So the last one we had 50 bucks. Sourced, no care. We could send them the sucks and they'd be like, great, here's some product. This one, 10 bucks more. How much would you pay for it? I was just about to say that it's 10 bucks more, but how much would you guys pay for it?

SPEAKER_03 56:41

This is worth like I love the price. Yeah, but you could easily get $80 out of that bottle.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Like, yeah, easily. I would agree.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

Easily.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

Um, I don't know if I would have picked it up for $80, though.

SPEAKER_03 56:52

Well, if they put it in a fancy bottle, they could sell this for a lot and people would not be disappointed. Yes. That's what I'm getting at. You know, I I like the bottle, I like everything about it. But if you were to put this in some fancy bottle, uh, and you and you were to you could easily charge a ton more. And people and people wouldn't be disappointed by it. That's the other thing. You might get a fancy bottle and try it and be like, eh, I don't know. You wouldn't get that with this. You would try it and be like, I yeah, I paid good money for this, and it was it's good. And I'm happy with it. I'd be you know, you'd be a happy consumer.

unknown 57:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

I love that it's $60. And I love, I love the the shape of the bottle, and I like the color of the bottle. I don't want them to change anything. Yeah, uh, I I think I'm getting a steal. I'm getting an absolute deal at $60 for this, and I don't want to tell anybody about it. Yeah, I mean, this thing is like we can't hit it, but like if this was on the shelf, I'd be like, I, you know, I'm gonna get this all the time. I I could drink this a lot. Would you take this over old overhold? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to compare that again. Old Hoverhold's a half the price of that.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

So I say that because of the color of the label.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

Yeah, it reminds me of the old overall overhold because it's sentimental to me and I like the flavors of it and I like the price of it. But this is also just different. Old Overhold is a Pennsylvania rye. This is not a Pennsylvania rye. This is I we we need to dive into maybe between the Pennsylvania stuff tastes different. I love the way it tastes, but it's got more of a hardy, it's not delicate like this, and it it's more hardy.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Well, that's the thing. This is delicate, but still hardy. Like there's still it is, but it's it's weird.

SPEAKER_03 58:30

It's a variation. I don't want the same thing all the time. This is a variation from something that I like. I love Pennsylvania, right? This is a variation of that. So this is a nice thing to mix it up now and then, you know.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Steve, I got done editing that a podcast episode that'll come out here soon where you mentioned uh if you don't like caramel, what do you like about bourbon?

unknown 58:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Rye. I remember that comment. Remember that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:54

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 58:55

Yeah, yeah. Uh what's wrong with you? Rye was uh Chris can attest, Scotch and Rye were my two go-to's. Yeah. Like before bourbon, well before bourbon. Chris. Mostly Scotch. Chris kind of dragged me into bourbon that I'm like, okay, let's get into this more, more. This is what I would expect from my go-to before bourbon.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

This flavor, this but we didn't, but if you remember right, we weren't. So we went from I went from basically Irish, you basically went from Scotch. We kind of both went into bourbon. I pulled you a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

But I was born to rye before we get.

SPEAKER_03 59:35

We kind of found rye together. Maybe we we you didn't, we didn't really get into rye until after. Really? Yeah. Because we didn't even we didn't really even get the difference between the two for a while.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Because this is what uh uh tasting it now, I'm like, this is what I would go after.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

I remember we we picked up our first like couple of bottles of rye together, okay, and we weren't sure about it. Okay, then it didn't take long, and we were like, this is all we want. Yeah, and then then from then on it was like more like 6040, and then it's like 80-20. You know what I mean? It got more and more like heavy into the rye stuff, but we kind of did that together. Oh, I think because I remember making this thing, you were like, This is like scotch bourbon. Right. And I said, This is like bourbon scotch, because it's kind of like a cross between the two because it's not not flavor-wise, but like the way it is, it's like us those sweet notes with a stronger element or the stronger element with a sweet note.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

It's really hard to compare this to bourbon because this is not bourbon, right? But but but the but there's there's okay, so you guys will appreciate this. Listeners may we talk about a roller coaster event, right? We talk about undulations, as Chris likes to say. There's there's dips within rye or highs within rye that you're like, bourbon, got the sweet. Oh crap, I went down. You know what I mean? Like, I went up, I went down. It's almost immediate. It is not like slow progression. The slow progression comes after you've swallowed okay, now I've got a little bit more coming. Uh flavor, heat, I've got that. Bourbon is like sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet. Okay, proof. Okay, okay, we're done. Rye is a steady, but it's a steady roller coaster of dips and dives and then slow curves around.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

I think yeah, I agree with you. Again, I'm I'm a little bit more into the flavors of things, but I would uh say that you do get that with bourbon as well. It's just more subtle.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:41

And I think with rye, it's more uh uh uh obvious.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:46

Um, and I think that you can appreciate the two, and I think you can take tighter turns with rye than you can with bourbon.

unknown 1:01:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

Um, whereas bourbon could be more of a Sunday drive. Rye could be more of like a a uh a hot rod, you know, kind of a like a like a liquor run while the while the law's after you. You know what I mean? Like uh a motorcycle thunder road, yeah. You get what I'm saying? I I think that there are different venues that give different experiences that are the same, but they're still they're still both rides. Yeah, they're both they're still both the same concept, just different experiences of the same thing. Um so I I I don't think with with bourbon it's just boring, you know. Uh I think that there are, but you have to find them, and that's what makes it interesting for me at least. Uh you have to really like kind of think about it, you know what I mean? With rye, it's a little bit more obvious and a little bit more aggressive. So I mean that's my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

Yeah, and I don't agree with that. I think I think there's a region of the bourbon as the entry point. Uh it is. It's a little bit more straightforward uh in that, but if you can take the time to think about bourbons and stuff, you can find those those hills and valleys and everything. Like you said, it's a it's a little bit less, it's a little bit more subtle. Whereas rye is a little bit more aggressive and it's more obvious. Um which, if you're new to it, can can come out as very proof to you or bite you or you know that kind of thing. Whereas bourbon doesn't happen near as much. So it's more forgiving. Exactly. It's more forgiving, yeah. I think that's why people start with bourbon and then they move on to other things most of the time. Bourbon's the most readily available, it's the cheapest.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:43

Well, I think that's why American single malt's done well, because um it's it's bourbon that's kind of been fancified, you know what I mean, in some ways, yeah. Refined, uh delicate. It's even more delicate in some ways. It's um I I think if you were to follow Nick's logic, it would be even less curvy, you know what I mean? And but I I don't think that that's what it is. I think it's just more um it's it's smooth in the way a luxury car is smooth on the road. You don't feel any bumps. Yeah, you don't feel any bumps, you know what I mean? But that's a good thing in that car, you know. So yeah, I mean, I and I think that's why American single malt is done well too, because it's the other way. It's I think that with you know, if but you're thinking of bourbon as a starting point, you would have one way going to American single malt and another way going to Rise, yeah, or high rate bourbons and rise, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

I think that's fair, yeah. I think uh I've gone down the road of American single malt and I and I still like that direction more than the rise, uh, still overall. Uh there are definitely rise that I like, and and rye doesn't scare me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

The way and I feel the exact same way about the other way around. Yeah, exactly. I feel like like I'm starting to get a little bit more in American single malt. They don't scare me. Literally, exactly what you just said, Steve, but flip-flop. And I'm open. I'm actually searching a little bit because ever since I had some of that stuff from Iron Vault, I'm like, I can I was like, I can like this. And I and I wonder if I drink enough of it, if I'll get even more uh okay with the with what I hate about a traditional American single mobs that I've had so far. So uh I'm I'm I'm open to trying it. At this point, I actually want to try it because I'm gonna know if I like it or not. And I and I want to find more that I do like because I actually really, really, really like that one from Ironfall. I mean, I really do. I I really like it. So and I'm sure there's more out there like that, or maybe eventually I'll get over, you know, the what keeps me from American, you know, single moths already. But we'll see. I don't know. I'm inter I'm in I'm open.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

Yeah. Um I think there's a there's a pretty decent chance I'm I'm signing up for that for that club from these guys. Yeah, that's for 90 bucks. That's they're gonna ship it to you. Well, I don't I I gotta look and see how. Find out if they'll ship it to you. That'd be kind of a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:02

If they're gonna ship it, what we ought to do is do the two-tier and split it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

Yeah, or three tier. Three tier and split that. It's cheaper. It's it's cheaper every time. It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

It's it's because the two tiers was like 160, which is half, like that's not quite 90. Yeah, yeah. It's like 80 bucks at that point. It just keeps going down, down, down.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

130. Uh, or I'm sorry, one ninety one. It's 70 bucks a bottle. 70 bucks a bottle for the four the four one.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Totally worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:29

So, yeah, well, well worth it for that. So, yeah, I think we'll we'll we'll talk about that and and get get some of their stuff. And you know, we'll shoot him a message and see if see if maybe we can I am all into this company.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

I if we we should let them know. We'll support them if we can.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

I looked it up and said seven-hour drive. Seven hours? Wow, that's not bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:48

Seven hours actually is doable.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

And I'm a little bit pissed because I went to a state park right there, and I was 12 minutes away from this place. Come on, Steve.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:57

You would have appreciated it two years ago, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

It's okay. You wouldn't have it wouldn't have been the same. It wouldn't have been the same, you're right. But yeah, so it's seven hours away, and and there's a flight to Ithaca, New York, which is so it's like three hours by flight. Ithaca? Ithaca, yeah. And so which is right, so it's like and it's like 20 minutes from the airport. So Ithaca?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:17

Wasn't that like in Greece or something?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Uh there might be one in Greece. Ithaca?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:20

I'm thinking of Ithaca. I'm thinking of uh Greek mythology. Yeah, yeah. The Iliadic.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

I think it is I think Ithaca is uh a Greek uh god or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:29

Yeah, well, he was the Ithaca prince, the son of uh well, it doesn't matter, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:36

So I think all in all it's it's wonderful. This model was a big win.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:40

Big win. I want to try more of their stuff. I want to drink more. I I'm gonna well, I'm gonna have my third one. I know, right? Mine as well. Right. Yeah. Well, thanks for joining us for a smoke and a drink and a little conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

For sure. Until next time. Until next time. Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskeychaserspod.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.