A Private Stock Single Barrel From J Rieger Co

We crack open a J Rieger Co private stock single barrel bourbon and chase the story behind how it was picked, bottled, and shared. Along the way, we pull on threads from Kansas City whiskey rules to sweet mash fermentation, then land on whether the regular shelf bottle is an easy buy. 

• what a private select single barrel program looks like at the distillery 
• filling your own bottle on tour and signing the barrel guest book 
• the Rieger hospitality center and the adult sized slide 
• J Rieger Co origins in 1887 and the mail order whiskey era 
• the “Oh So Good” tagline and why labels carry history 
• Kansas City whiskey as a category and why sherry addition matters 
• gin basics and the difference between London dry and modern American styles 
• tasting notes on a six year, ~129 proof bourbon that drinks softer than expected 
• mash bill talk and why 30% rye does not always read as spicy 
• sweet mash vs sour mash explained with a sourdough starter analogy 
• why we want people in Ohio to buy the $40 bottle so the lineup expands 
• how the club helps us learn the difference between good whiskey and great whiskey 

If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. 
We can be reached on our website, whiskey tasterspa.com, with any ideas for the show. 

Transcript

Welcome And Responsible Drinking

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries. All while enjoying a glass. I'm Steve. I'm Nick, and I'm Chris. Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.

What This Rieger Bourbon Is

unknown 0:29

J.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Reager and Co. Or just Rieger is what I've seen at most of the places.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

So, Micah, I'm interested to see what you think about this bottle because I don't know what you've done research-wise, Steve. I've heard some very interesting things about this company.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

So the company does some cool things. This bottle is not part of the cool things, though.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

But they do some very interesting cool things.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

They do, yeah. So this this bottle is just a bourbon. So it's their bourbon. It is a private select single barrel sort of deal. When I started doing research for this, I was like, this bottle isn't showing up anywhere. Like, what is this? And then I found out, oh, this is their version of their like single barrel program. So if you're gonna do buy a barrel for something, this is the bottle that you'll do it with. And so yeah, and then so that's why I asked you, like, hey, where did he get it? Because this is some sort of a single barrel. And uh you said that he got it actually at the distillery,

Bottle-Your-Own Single Barrel Tour

SPEAKER_01 1:27

right?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

So uh CJ has been on the podcast. Yes, uh, he went to this distillery, and when they went and toured, part of the tour was they get to fill their own bottle from a single barrel. And when you do it, uh, it's kind of like Jeff the Creed, where if you do their like single barrel, like uh private tour kind of thing, you get to sit there, go through a barrel, and then possibly get a bottle from that barrel afterwards. So no one else is gonna get that barrel once it's empty. No one other than who paid for it gets it. But they also do one of the other cool things that I liked was they also do like a guest book, like you'd have for like a wedding or like a funeral. They do that for this single barrel. So every barrel they pull down, they have a new book for you to sign to say, here's my name, here's what bottle, how many bottles I got, or whatever it was. And so he sent me a picture of him like signing in the book of like two bottles, one for Nick, one for CJ, and here's what we got and when we got it. So, like, I've got that along with this bottle, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Like, that whole idea is really cool. That is cool. So there's like a signing book for the barrel, yeah. And so you can sign your name to it saying, like, you got okay, that's really cool. That's a good way of doing it.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

It's fun, like that's a fun idea.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I also want to know if they keep those books. Yeah, like that's what I was wondering. Later on, can you be like, hey, I I bought this bottle in 2018 or 2020 or whatever? Can I can I see the book from that year or what and like see if you can find your your signature and stuff? That would be really cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Like at the distillery. I don't want to take away from your research. Have you done anything on the distillery itself, like the the the building and stuff? Okay, do you know about what's inside that you gotta go from the top floor to the bottom floor?

Adult Slide And Hospitality Center

SPEAKER_01 3:16

No, I don't think so. Oh yeah, I know it's a I know it's a uh like it's a historic building. They just bought it in 2019, is when they bought the the property. It's an electric park neighborhood, and so it's a distillery, and it's it's almost like a hospitality, it's like a center, so there's multiple bars, multiple things inside of it now. But what's on the first and second floor?

SPEAKER_02 3:40

They actually got started because of a brewery, and so part of their brewery, some of their fun experiences from the top floor. So apparently, when you do the tour, there's a top floor, and they have a giant adult-sized slide to go down from the top floor to the bottom. Oh my gosh, that would be awesome! Right. So, one of my roommates from college lives in the area, and he's like, dude, you've heard of this? Like, there's a slide in there, like, and sent me a video of him going down the slide. And I was like, Oh, how, how, when? Like, how do I get there? Like, I want to go down the slide. Like, the thing's so cool. But he's like, Yeah, that's the attraction. Is like adults are like, I gotta go on tour and then go down a slide. Sign me up.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

So, do they get to do a sampling, a tasting first, and then go down? Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah, that's a good way to add to a at least from what I understand.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yep, say that is a thousand percent. What they didn't tell you is that the end of the slide is just a bed of nails. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And you're sober enough to dodge this.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Yeah, but apparently, the from what I understand is the brewer the distillery got its start from a brewery and then started distilling from there, or like uh kind of tacked on from there.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

It could be they that when when you go to their website and look at their history, they don't talk too much about their brewery time. I think that was probably a way to get started, like that was a way to get some money going and get some get some cash flowing.

Rieger Origins And Mail Order Whiskey

SPEAKER_01 5:05

The owner is the great, great, great grandson, three greats grandson of uh Jacob Rieger, who started Oh, Jacob. Jacob Rieger and Co. Right. So he started Jacob Rieger and Co. I don't know in 1887. So this this was started way back when as a distillery in 1887. That's the J.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Yes, that's the J I've been wondering what the J was. Got it. So Jacob Rieger was the the company is the yes, yep.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

So they they started the Jacob Rieger and Co. in 1887, is when they got going. At that time, though, what the a weird thing about them is that they were a mail order whiskey company, so they had over a hundred products, but they did mail order stuff. So back in the seals and sears and roebock of of whiskey.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

All I can hear when you say mail order is mail order brides. I know, I know exactly. Well, mail order whiskey, got it. So only men were ordering the whiskey.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Well, not only that, but it's the other piece is like uh so it's mail mail order, and I'm picturing like uh people delivering this on horses, right? I mean, maybe not, I don't know. I know that I'm sure that you know trains were around at that point. I that's I'm terrible at it.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah, definitely trains were about, yeah, but uh, but still that last mile delivery, like you know, from the train station on is probably horseback. Some guy riding the door. I mean, this is 1887, so 1880s, yeah. Well, 1900 is when the the the uh the it was 1887. 1900 is when Alexander Rieger took over, and he was the kind of the business mind of it, and he's turned it into the mail order deal. But Sears and Roebuck, you know, was was super hot a little bit after that. Sears stores that we know today started as Sears and Robuck.

Catalog Memories And The Oh So Good

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I'm sorry. Are there more Sears around? As we did as child children, yeah, as children. You youngsters living in you you 21-year-olds that are irony with so Steve came downstairs to the basement.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

We're recording. Steve pointed out the air hockey table, and he goes, Oh, this is new, it's from Sears from when like 1990s of some kind, somewhere in there, maybe early 2000s.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Uh you kept it for your parents, or your parents' parents.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Yeah, that's right. Did I keep it? My parents kept it. Am I really glad they kept it?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yes. Can I find replacement parts? Nope. Maybe somebody listening to the podcast could make you replacement parts.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

I can't even find them on eBay. Right. I can't find them. Look, there's nothing.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

So we need somebody with a 3D printer. Yeah, because that's exactly what we need. One of my favorite TV shows ever is MASH. And there's a couple of episodes where they get the catalog in Korea there and they're ordering stuff. And like at one point they order stuff for like medical stuff because it's MASH. But also, they ordered like you know, this fancy jacket, they ordered a bathtub. You know, they did like all that kind of stuff because of that. But also, like you could buy houses, like there are multiple people that have houses. Also, uh, if you go to cemeteries, you'll find if you'll find headstones that look like uh they're stone, but if you knock on them, they're actually aluminum. And those are from Sears, you used to be able to order your headstone from Sears Sears and Robuck.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Back in our day, I'm telling you, back in our day, catalogs got weird. So, like, Sears was big, and then Sears started taking a little bit of a dive, not extreme, they were still in walls, but then JCPennies took off. And so you get if you were uh I don't know if you were like a member, but like if you signed up for the JCPenney catalog, it came every month and it went from everything from home goods to clothing to act like the like everything, yeah, air hockey to like automotive to like weirdest things you could find. So that's like would be Amazon today.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna order a house. With that, old is new. I got an Amazon catalog in the mail, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

So Amazon is sending out catalogs. If we can't get them on the phone, we're gonna get them with the paper.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

It's to the point where like I remember in was it junior high, maybe elementary, is when Sears catalogs became big. So this was 19. Oh, this would have been close to 2001, would have been third grade-ish. So like 2000s, late 90s. And I remember like ladies' undergarments being big in JCPenney's in the catalog, yeah. And like that was like a no-no. I remember that being like out in the country, like what those were during the catalogs. Yeah, they were the only way to get that stuff out there for like out in the country middle nowhere stuff of like, hey, we have this, and like you pick it up as a kid, and you're like, Whoa, what is this? Those pre-internet days when you're like, What's going on here? Okay, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Surprisingly, it was mostly like young boys that would look at that magazine.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

We're getting these weird calls with the bull kids.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Hey, do you know what model this was? Wait, uh no.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

So onto the Seuss tag, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Uh but with their catalog and their products, like I said, they had a hundred or so products on their on their line, but they had a tagline, and it's still on the label on this bottle here. I see, and it just oh so good, and that's it. And so that little line at the bottom of that tag on there in the red, the oh so good. And it's also around the sticker on the top. Is it yeah? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was their like yeah, that was their tagline. So that was what was on all their products.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

That was before the H made it to the O. Yes, exactly. It was just an O. exclamation point.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Here's what fascinates me, and I don't know if oh, you do okay. I don't know if I can say it about what was added to this because this fascinates me for the time period.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So this is the thing. So they they they closed up shop after prohibition and stuff, and then this this they couldn't keep it around during prohibition.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

That makes sense, yeah. Who's gonna who's gonna like catalog sale during prohibition? Right, yeah, you're advertising, you're breaking the law, it's all on paper, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Right, it's a bit harder at that point, things switched to word of mouth during prohibition, so but yeah, so then in in uh 2014 is when this company came back and the uh the owner started it up again. At that time, they decided they did some research and they looked into some history of whiskey pre-prohibition, which a lot of people say that, and I I still haven't really decided how much I believe when somebody says, Oh, this is a pre-prohibition tradition, like, is it just because you wanted to try something different and nothing's in writing? So you can just call it whatever you want, just say, ah, they probably did it before.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

I found it somewhere, yeah. Grandpa wrote it down somewhere, he talked about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

I don't know, and and there's like very few people that are doing this as of right now. There's like two or three companies that are making there's more people out there. There are two other than this, other than this one that are because they this will make more sense to you, my guess. Yeah, yeah. I love learning this stuff.

Kansas City Whiskey And Sherry Debate

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Kansas City whiskey is a category of whiskey, and Jay Rieger created that category, so it is a licensed, it's a separate category. Wait, so this is like bottled and bond, like its own separate kind of thing. It is a official type, and it's Kansas City whiskey, which is just whiskey with some sherry added to it, so it's not aged and sherry casks. What in that? It is sherry added to it. So it's so it's a sherry wine, it's added to the whiskey. As far as I can very small, like very tiny amounts. Okay, just to clarify, what we're drinking today is not Kansas City whiskey. This is just bourbon, so this is not Kansas City whiskey, which is crazy to think of because when you try this, you're like, okay, I know they might add some sherry to it.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

I'm like, oh, there's some sweetness to it. What is that? It's gotta be sherry. Like, I can taste a lot of sherry to it, and you're like, oh, but this is not that. Yeah, yeah. So it's all the head, got it.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

If you do find it that this company does make a Kansas City whiskey, so does a couple other brands in Kansas City, but like just two or three, very few. Holiday is another one that we've had before. On the they do not make one, but they're local right there, and they've kind of played like they might. Doc Holly's Missouri, which is where Kansas City is for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Just had a hot minute where I was like, Kansas City is not in Missouri, but yeah, but they're on the border.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heaven forbid they move the border another mile or two, so we can make Kansas City and Kansas. Makes way more sense. Because let me tell you, a little bit off the off the wall here, but but we're we've been trying to look for Kansas distilleries to do something on the podcast. So hard. You know what's really hard is to Google Kansas distilleries and not get every Kansas City distillery and not Kansas, because there's not a ton of Kansas distilleries. There's really not. There, I I think I might know of two, yeah. If any all showing up in their own Missouri, but that's does Kansas not allow distilling? They do, it just doesn't so there's not a lot of people in Kansas, so it just doesn't, you know, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 14:53

A lot of corn open more distilleries, you might bring on more people.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Yeah, so Kansas City whiskey is whiskey with a little bit of sherry wine added to it, which they say is a pre-prohibition tradition that I've never heard of before. And when I was trying to do research on it, the only thing that ever came up was their website. So I couldn't like find anything to go deeper on it. But if it is, that's cool. And their version of it, their Kansas City uh whiskey, has 15-year-old ororoso sherry added to it. So that's what that's the sherry that's being added. So it sounds it'd be really like it'd be really cool. It also sounds like it's very rare. They don't make a lot of it, and if you can get your hands, it's it's definitely a hard thing to get your hands on.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

So is this just whiskey, not bourbon? Correct, it's not bourbon because there's an additive to it, so you can't call it bourbon.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

That's what I thought too. Yeah, but I and I don't know if it follows the bourbon rules and it's just bourbon with an additive, or if it's something completely different, because they do make a rye, they make gin, they make vodka, they make all that kind of stuff to make rail.

London Dry Gin Versus American Gin

SPEAKER_01 16:04

All their stuff is their gin, they got right after they they hired a distiller by the name of Tom Nickel, who was the head distiller for Tengaray, and so they brought him on. So their gin is very London dry style, very heavy juniper, that kind of thing. So, not really this the American style kind of the new age American style style stuff. It's very traditional London dry gin that they make there.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Wait, what's what's American traditional?

SPEAKER_01 16:37

American gin has a lot less juniper in it. Juniper is the thing that makes it taste like a Christmas tree. It like smell like pine. That's what I like. Yeah, so you like London dry. Yeah, you like London dry gin. Yeah, you would like a London dry gin more than American style. So, like watershed's gin is uh they call it four peel gin, and the four peels is lemon lime, grapefruit, and orange. It's a very citrus forward gin with not a lot of juniper. There is juniper in it, but it's pretty mild.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

I've got one from Tennessee that is watermelon rind with a bunch of other like pink peppercorn, like random stuff, like botanical. So gin is like gin is a neutral at the base, neutral grain spirit with added botanicals. Some of that has to be juniper, but there's no from what I understand, there's no like regulation that says like whiskey has to be 51% corn. Yeah, it doesn't have to be 51% juniper, just has to have some. So like you got American companies that are like adding a little bit of juniper, and then everything else that just changes it from this like uh is what people call like old granddad like pine needle to like oh I've got like a tea almost or like a more complex fruity botanical popular American gin was probably Hendrix, which is a cucumber forward gin.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

So gin has changed, and so for anyone out there that is is is like, oh, I hate that pine tree stuff that I had in college, uh go and find American gin and try it. And don't find this one. It sounds like don't find this one if you're a game. As a city, you're probably not gonna like this one. Probably not gonna like don't like the gin flavor, but try some gin. Gin is better than it used to be if you don't like that. We're trying. And so, like, get the word out there. Try gin again. So gin is on ice. Gin on ice is great. I also like you, Micah, also like a good London dry gin. I'm a big fan of Bombay Sapphire. I'm a big fan of Tangore. Daria? Just normal tangre. Yeah, see, uh Bombay Sapphire is my go-to London dry gin. That's the one that I like the most. But I've had tangree. I don't mind tangre. I'm not a huge fan of beef eater. Okay, that's probably the third, the other like really popular one of like that level of gin. There's like she, there's like seagrum's or whatever, but for like that kind of level of normal gin, bomb bay sapphire is my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Does uh watershed make a lavender?

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Uh it is uh it's not lavender, it is uh tea. It's uh yeah, it's uh chamomile. Yeah, chamomile meal. Yes, uh the guild, the gilded gin. That might be the one that my wife likes a lot. If I'm not sick and I want to make myself a hot toddy, so like normally a hot toddy has whiskey in it, and that's great if you're sick, uh, and it'll really cure what ails you, but so does high proof whiskey, right? But if I would like the flavor of it and and don't not necessarily looking for the high proof, I'll use that instead because uh a hot toddy is tea, it's black tea, lemon, honey, and and whiskey normally. But I'll use the the chamomile gilded gin from from watershed because that you know that goes really well with that tea. It's it's a super great cocktail.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Yeah, that's a great idea. If you're talking gin, like they so there's also a thing of like switching, I don't know if it's part of London or not, but there's navy strength gin, which I don't know if that's American or if that came from England. It's from England, so from their navy, it is high proof gin. I mean, it's like 120 proof gin. Yeah, I'll have to try that one out.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Oh, it is that might be too high for me for gin, at least. Yeah, I'm sure it is. Yeah, I mean of course it is.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

We're talking like flavor, like you get the most, you get less in your face pine kind of thing, but you get more of like a flavor. Here's what I'm pulling out of it, and you put that on ice, and it just tones it down just a bit. We're like, oh, this is a nice, chilled, good summer drink.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Okay, I can't do that, yeah, especially with the ice when you throw that in straight, it might be a little much for me. It gets

Tasting A 129 Proof Single Barrel

SPEAKER_00 20:51

there, yeah. So you guys are sipping on this, but I I just took my first sip. Okay, have you?

SPEAKER_02 20:55

I've taken several sips. Oh, you've had it before, I've had it before, so it's not fair.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

What's the proof on it? Will you look at that real quick? Because it's it's because it's a single barrel, they're different every time. It's almost 130. It's 128, I think.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

So we're talking 129. 129, 129, just over 129. It's hot, so almost 130. It's gonna this, yeah, it's six years old.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

It's a six-year-old bourbon, which is kind of young. Yeah, it's it's a little bit on the younger side, but not awful. Like six years is a decent, decent age. It doesn't drink around that 130 proof table. No, and you said you knew the mash mill. What was it again? I don't know the mash mill. Oh, okay. I don't we must have been talking about something else. Yeah, so it's uh because it's a single barrel. I think they use these a little bit as as a way of uh to to try different things, but let me see that would not surprise me if they say what their uh what their normal bourbon is.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Up until two years ago, maybe three at this point, they did not make their own rye.

unknown 21:59

So

SPEAKER_02 22:00

They sourced their rye from MGP. I do know that because so part of the fun with the I got this from a friend, but the roommates from college, which one of them lives around Kansas City, we give bottles out each year, like a secret sand kind of thing. And so one of the roommates got a rye from them, absolutely loved it. And the very next year someone else got it, and it wasn't MGP and it was their own stuff. And he was like, This is the best thing I've ever had as rye. So I don't know if they add sherry to that. Every time, ever since I've heard the whole story of Sherry, I'm like, are they adding sherry to this?

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Are they doing it to that? Like they would they would label it Kansas City whiskey if they are.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

So what I've been told, what I was told during the tour, so CJ took the tour, and from what he understood was every little bit of their barrels, no matter if it's bourbon or not, gets sherry, just a little bit of sherry added to it because they found a workaround within the rules of bourbon that allowed them to add just a small smidge percentage of sherry or something into it and still call it bourbon. And I was like, I don't know if that's what it was, but that would be super interesting. Because I I mean I know the mash bill has to be 51% corn. Could we add in some sherry and call that part of the mash bill?

unknown 23:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Like, is that part of the workaround? Like, what is the workaround that allows them to do this? And it sounds like it's not necessarily bourbon, it's their own designated thing. Yeah, so it's like rye whiskey. It's like it's essentially like Pennsylvania rye, Maryland rye. Like we have our own style of this whiskey, Kansas City style is we can add a little bit of sherry in with it and still call it whiskey without it being flavored whiskey. You know what I mean? Which is intriguing to me on how they got around that. Because I don't know a single company that can add any additive and not get around calling it like a flavored whiskey or like a yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Which I think what they did is they they created a style, so now you know Kansas City whiskey they have sherry added. Yes. So I did find the the mash bill for their normal bourbon, which may be the same as this, is 56% corn, 30% rye, and 14% malted barley. So no no wheat at all, but there is malted barley. It is sweeter. What was the corn again? 56. They also do they do a sweet mash. Okay. Oh, uh they don't do a sour mash, they do a sweet mash. So sweet mash uh means that uh sour mash is kind of like sourdough. You have a starter, you have you reuse the fermentation from a previous batch. Sweet mash means that you're you're starting fresh every time, you're not starting with anything previously.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Which, if they came from a brewery, that is very interesting to me. That's harder to do within a brewery world. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

So give me give me an example of um a distillery that will like reuse the like uh starting of them.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Okay, so okay, so I wouldn't think 95% of top distillers reuse. Yeah, because they want the same flavor every time. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

I I got I see why that okay, that makes sense. I didn't know that markets themselves as a sour mash. Okay, yes, I see.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Okay, now other uh I most people if don't say like if they don't say if they're sweet or sour, they're probably a sour mash because sweet mash has been some become something you would advertise because it is a little bit more complicated, it's a little bit harder, it makes things a touch more unique. So, like sour mash or sweet mash is something you would advertise.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

And it would be harder to keep that same flavor exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Okay, a lot of makers would do a sour mash, like beam would do a sour mash. It's just reusing the spent mash just a little bit from the last one to the next one to regain that same flavor over and over and over again. Whereas sweet mash is we start brand new every time.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

So then, uh if you keep doing that, let's just say you did that like a hundred times, the sour.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

It the sour, it doesn't change, it doesn't change you, get a more consistent flavor over time because you're just adding a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Interesting to see what barrel 100 would be versus one, you know. I just curious.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

I know it's it's it's getting interesting because like if you get into sourdough bread, it's the exact same idea that there is a mother, which is your sourdough, your like your starter, yeah. And it's just called the mother. And you can have you can have like families, like Amish families or people that are really into sourdough will like pass down their mother generation to generation. Like the the mother stays alive for that long and it keeps going. There are mothers out there that that like that like starter from like the 1200s. Like, like there are mothers that have that have been around forever. Because it's just you're it's not like it's that old. It just it's being it's being used and it's it's growing, right? So it's like yeast, so it's it's growing stuff. So it's not like that thing is 1800 years old, right? But there's the genes are that old thing. Gets even more crazy.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yeah, so my sister got into bread making heavily into bread making to the point where she has her own grain mill now. Uh they make tabletop grain mills. Did not know this until I went over there and I was like, whoa, that's awesome. Oh, it's it's fascinating. So sourdough, like mother dough, you have to feed I think she said like once a week, maybe every couple days. If you grind your own grain, every day or a couple hours, you have to feed that dough, the new grain. It's so it's super interesting because like if you get like flour that you buy at the the store, right? Yeah, so it's commercialized. There's so many additives to it that allows it to last. Whereas if you grind your own and you start something off that, you have to feed it every so often for it to grow. And she told me this, and I go, really? Yeah, and I go, huh. Makes more sense when you when you look at it that way, and you look at distilleries and you look at everyone that like grinds their own, uses their own like spent grain, like naturally spent grain, grind everything. Every couple days or like hours, they're refilling. So if they're if they're doing sour mash, it's gonna be like maybe a couple day process and they're taking it back and then starting all over, taking it back and starting moving. Oh, okay. Whereas sweet mash is like, we're done, we're gonna start again. We're done. We're gonna I look at that, I'm like, wow, all right, kind of understand the price difference-ish, but I also understand the price. Like, man, like you're talking like I'm I I can only use this for so long, and then I'm done. Or I have to use it within a certain time frame, or it's done.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

That's crazy to think of. Amy and I tried to get into sourdough, yeah, and that was our issue, is that we didn't use it enough because it's growing. So, like you'd put it in the fridge, and like you have to, you have to make a feed it like every like three days. Otherwise, it just it just dies, and then it, you know, it goes rants it. Heaven forbid you go on vacation for two weeks. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Yeah, someone has to come over and feed it like a plant or like an animal. Like, what is going on?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

That is nuts to me.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

So uh, and there's like a whole bunch of recipes out there for for they call it uh sourdough uh leftover or something like that, is what they call it. And so there's like there's like waffle recipes and stuff, or like uh, I think Lore did like cinnamon rolls, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Cinnamon rolls.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Just to like just to use it. Discard. There we go. Discard. Yeah, sounds awesome. Discard recipe.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Except for it's probably super tasty as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

It's it's sourdough is a weird world, and like it really took off during COVID, and we tried to join it.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Because no one was traveling, yeah, all the time, you're stuck at home, so let's let's make it constantly arguing with each other because you're with each other because they don't know. Where's my sourdough?

SPEAKER_01 30:44

I don't know. Find it yourself. It's starting to die down a little bit now, but sourdough really had its moment there for a little bit. But to bring it back to the sweet mash, yeah, yeah. So this is a sweet mash. They use both a column and a pot still, so they use them both. They do a double distillation for everything, uh like there was a combination of a unique two-set distillation process that leverages both our pot still and our column still. I'm guessing it goes through the column still first and then goes through the pot still to finish. And they don't make a ton. Uh, they they don't make a ton, but they do they they now have a pretty big operation.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

But are we talking like are they craft versus uh I think they're still craft, okay? They're not that big. I don't get the dusty corn, dusty corn feel of this. Yeah, they have a rick house with 9,000 barrels in it. Well, it makes me wonder if like that unique two-step thing is kind of pulling that flavor out.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

It could be it also is like I said, they their rickhouse holds about 9,000 barrels, so they're at a decent size now. Like, that's not that's that's beyond, I think that's beyond watershed. I think that's beyond anybody that we would call uh probably probably beyond Jept the Creed. I would say maybe anyway.

Ohio Release Pricing And Buying Advice

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Although when uh when we started, when you sent me pictures of like, oh, what are we gonna talk about and stuff and like picking up brand? The reason I picked this one is because I just saw here on Ohio shelves a Rieger bottle. No, what?

SPEAKER_02 32:16

And so there is now like they're in Ohio of their whiskey, their bourbon, they're rye. It's just their bourbon, their straight bourbon whiskey.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

So they they are they have one bottle in Ohio, and it just showed up like within the last month or two, like pretty recent.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

People in Ohio listening, yeah, go buy that, yeah. Right, like I don't care if you drink it or hand it off as Christmas gifts, buy it, buy it so that they keep it, yes, yeah. So they keep it and then they can bring in more because I'm telling you, their rye they make is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, Ohio is weird. It's like as long as we can you can prove that you can sell these bottles, we'll give you more space on the ship.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

So Jeff the Creek did the same thing. They brought in one, they did really well for the one, and they brought in more. Yeah, I know. Ohio, yeah, yeah. Ohio said you can bring in as many as you want, but for the first year, it's a trial. Whatever you do beyond, like over the entire like five or six, we look at and either we delist you or we say you did really well for the one. So you sold thousands of cases of one, or you sold thousands of cases of six. And if it's thousands of six, we're not worth it. If it's thousands of one, then they're like, Oh, you're worth it. Stupid thinking right there, like just dumb thinking right there. But again, if you're in Ohio, please buy the crap out of this.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Yeah, I mean, I've seen it on the shelf, so have you? Yeah, I like it. I can't remember what the label was like. It was not this one, clearly, but it's a blue label, but blue and red or blue and gold almost. Yeah, it is. I'm sure it's probably like a Kroger thing. I mean, not anywhere fancy.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

It just like it just showed up within the last couple of months.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

You mentioned that, and I was like, okay, that I have seen it then because it it rang a bell.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

What's this selling at? It's like 40 bucks, I think. Because yeah, it's it's like a 40 bottle. That's reasonable.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

I think this one was about 70, maybe 80.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yeah, which for a single barrel, yeah, private stock with a toy, that makes sense, and it's 130 proof versus their 90 proof, which is their regular stuff, and so so yeah. So that's the reason I picked this is because oh, I've seen this label on the shelves, it's kind of new. I was curious if it was worth picking up or not, so I'm gonna give it a shot. And I will tell you with this bottle, it is like you said, it doesn't taste 130 proof to me. It's it's a proof down a little bit, it still tastes hot, like like 115 uh or so, like, but definitely not where it resides.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

It reminds me of uh Jack Daniels, like Jack Daniels bear-proof or like bear-proof rye almost, where it's it's sweet, still has somewhat of a proof, like in the back, but it's not extreme, it is not in your face.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Yeah, that's where the proof is is on the back end, like it definitely comes back and like burns you on the back end of it, and so like it it may be like for me. I would want to prove down a little bit from this because it doesn't like a lot of things that I have that are a high proof that I really enjoy have a long finish. I like that long, hot finish, but this one it all it does have that, but it kind of stings, it has that like kind of acid, it it it burns in the back. Whereas instead of having just like some warmth going down, it has a bit of a burn in the back end just because it's a little bit higher, it's just it just kind of hot. But flavor-wise, I like it, it's nice and deep, which has kind of become one of my bigger concerns when it comes to stuff, is that it's not very watery or or like here it is and then it's gone, it lasts for a while, it has a good finish, and it's kind of it is sweet. You're right on that. I I I if I were guessing the mash bill, I wouldn't have thought it was 30% rye. I would have thought there were more wheat or barley or something, which there is a high malted barley, which that's maybe where that sweet kind of creaminess is. But being 30% rye surprises me because it doesn't it doesn't really have a spice kick like a rye does.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

No, definitely not. One thing that also was interesting is like I uh this doesn't drink like a six-year for me. Like this is six years, right? Right, yeah. What's it drink like? It's not it doesn't taste young. So this would have been maybe like pre-COVID, where I'd go to you know, Worthington Hills Market on Saturday morning, and you know, this was before the Burmot boon, but like people would be in line, but it's like six guys, you know, waiting. And I would uh, you know, I'd get in line, but I had I had gone to the store earlier in the week and grabbed like bet way back in the day, you know, no no offense, Steve, but like a watershed bottle, which was like a five-year, four, four years, five year or four-year. Four years with the advertising, yeah. And which, which I, by the way, the four years now drink way different than the four years back then. They were really young back then. And we wear it special. I would stand in line, and some guy goes, Hey, what do you guys think of this um you know, watershed four-year? And the guy in front of me, he's like, Yeah, it's a little bit young, it needs a few more years on it and stuff like that. And that was young to me. And what it what it really tasted like was like lower flavor and and higher hotter for me, at least. Like it, that's how it came off initially. Now, these days when I drink a four-year watershed, not the same, completely different experience. Now, with a six-year, before I took a sip of it, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is gonna be kind of young. And in that same vein, I did not get that from this.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Yeah, so to use like bottled and bond as an example, bottle and bond has to be at least four years. Bourbons usually are between four and six years. That's kind of the normal range, and it's under four years, that's when it's really young. But like you said, watershed before, like in 2020, was a MGP product. It was it was four years old, but it was just kind of it was kind of thin. It was it tasted young. It wasn't necessarily young, but it did taste young. Whereas today's four-year of watersheds, as an example, is a combination of their stuff and MGP stuff. And so their stuff kind of carries the load and makes it so it doesn't taste near as young. Six years in terms of just bourbon in general, is is a pretty I don't know what it's not old, but certainly not young anymore in terms of years. But there are people that do like four to six years, if it's if it's made, depending on how it's made, can taste kind of acetony and kind of thin and young. So you're right in that. This one, it's it definitely you can tell that there's been some work done to it, that it's it definitely doesn't taste very acetony or young or thin or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This was uh this was really good. And I did actually like the aftertaste. You know, I have a lot of trouble describing the taste that I'm tasting, which was one of the reasons why I wanted to join the club to try to help with some of that vocabulary and stuff like that. But I also don't want to steal from what other people are saying and be art of generic. Exactly. So, you know, for me, I actually really enjoyed the flavor, but you know, a lot of the end of the flavor for me was what a lot of people typically describe as like caramel or whatever, but it was like distinct for for me. So that's what I got from it. I actually really I did enjoy this.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

What what did you like the most about this? What what did you get off of the front, back well, you know, so it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

So I sat here, you know, like nosing it for a while, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Because I love you still get more off of the glass. I mean, there's oh my gosh, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

I mean, it it is all over. Yeah, I finished it, but I but I I really enjoyed it as but the other piece for me that I the way that I like to enjoy whiskies is to just let it sit on my tongue for a minute in my mouth before I swallow it. So for me, I was expecting it to be really, really hot because of the proof, because you we talked about the proof before we took a drink, and it it certainly wasn't, so I was confused. My tongue was confused. I was sitting there, okay, and then taking the drink, it was really hot, and I tried really hard not to cough, and I didn't. Good job.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

Good for you. I felt like that was a win for me.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Whatever the flavor profiles that were going on, again, I'm not good at describing this stuff, not as it as good as others, but they it certainly changed over the course of time as the heat went down and I was able to breathe out a little bit a couple of times, and then when that when the higher the proof, or at least for me, is like the more that uh your mouth waters after the fact. And so every single swallow of that changed how it tasted to me. It brought the proof down, the heat of the proof down quite a bit, and then it just was like different from from each swallow for me. That's what I really enjoyed about it most, rather than describing like a specific taste.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

So and you're not a rye guy, no, not a rye guy. Did you get a lot of rye off of this?

SPEAKER_00 41:40

No, not no, no, okay, yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Yeah, that's a yeah, absolutely. Yeah, see, this is why I love this stuff because we don't know the the true mash bill on this, but we're like guesstimating.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

And if you don't get a whole lot of rye, if it's a rye, high rye mash bill, that says something about all this, like not any rye.

Learning Great Whiskey From Good

SPEAKER_00 42:02

I I'm yeah, I'm not a rye guy.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Micah, like you, when I joined the club and when we started the podcast, like how I described myself when it came to whiskey is I said, I can tell what's a bad whiskey, and I can tell what's a good whiskey. And I can I knew that like I could I could taste a whiskey and be like, oh, this is this is good or this is bad. I could not tell the difference between a good whiskey and a great whiskey. I couldn't piece together those differences of like what makes this if I'm buying an $80 bottle versus a $40 bottle, why is this for $80 bottle worth it? Yeah, or is it worth it? And like that was what I was trying to figure out. And it took a long time of trying stuff to like get to a point where I can be like, oh, this is the flavor that I like, or this is the grain that I like, or whatever. And it still doesn't hold true, but it took trying a lot of different things to be able to like figure that out. And that is the beautiful thing about the club, is that you know, even though we get together once a month and there is a bottle that is part of the club, all of us bring bottles. So when you're you know, I'm I'm trying at a club meeting like five or six different bottles that I've never had before, or different mash bills or different things, and and because there's a little bit of knowledge behind it, then you know, people can say, Oh, here's a bottle, but also this is a high rye bottle, or this is a high wheat bottle, or this is this old, or this is Bond the Bond, or whatever. And so, because there's some language behind it, then you can be like, Oh, I like this, and it's a high rhyme. I should look for other high rise or whatever. So, like, for me, I decide I really like the American single malt, which is so weird, I know, right? I know, but I did find a fellow uh American single malt person up in Delaware. So we have been we have been exchanging bottles here recently with a friend of mine up in Up in Delaware, but because of that, I'm like, oh, I probably like barley. So because of that, like now I'm looking at stuff and I'm looking at the barley content, which is usually an afterthought afterthought grain. Usually things are corn, wheat, or rye, and then a little bit of barley. And so it's you, you know, usually there's not a lot of barley and stuff. So, like this bottle, I really enjoy it. It also happens to be 14% malted barley. Maybe there's a connection there. Like, maybe that's the reason that that kind of creaminess or fruitiness almost from it is maybe because of that, and that's maybe why I enjoy it. So you can think about things like that as you talk about it and get more in the whiskey world and kind of add a little bit of science to the art.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Which uh supposedly has added an American single malt that's not normal to their lineup.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

So next time you're there, Micah, because you're Micah, you're the one that goes to Germany the most often. Nick was just there, I was just there.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

And they talked about it. I was like, I can't find this, and they're like, Yeah, it's coming out. And it's like, why did you tell me?

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Well, I mean, I'll be there, I'll be there in December.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

I'm gonna tell you right now, if you see one of those bottles, go ahead and pick it up and I'll buy it.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

So all right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Any any of those places that do that, you you were just at Indiana Whiskey Co. Right, and you said that they have one. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

So Indiana Whiskey Company, I was just there two weeks ago, right? Yeah, so I tried their American single malt. I hate American single malt because it's not bourbon, it doesn't have that like depth, it doesn't have what I want. It's a whiskey, but it drinks like a gin.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Is that fair? Yeah, I think so. Uh I I equate American single malt to like a spaceide scotch. It's like uh it's not very smedy or whatever, but it has a little bit of smoke. It's a single malt, so it's like a mixture. I equate it to a mixture of a spacide scotch and an Irish, is kind of where I put it in flavor.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

This was the best American single malt I've ever had. This was out of where? Uh Indiana. South Bend. It is in South Bend. All right, guys. Indiana Whiskey Co. And this is South Bend. Yeah, okay. It so uh it's in the part of South Bend that you drive by and go, There it goes. There's a workhouse. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

It's in the middle of nowhere. So, like, where is this in juxtaposition to Notre Dame? I was gonna I mean maybe 15 minutes, okay. North, south, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Uh South. Oh, okay. Notre Dame? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, it is a tiny little outfit. So it's a little tiny place. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So I gotta believe that Jay Rieger is a little bit bigger.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. They have I mean, I could be wrong. They've got uh and they're they're like they're like I said, their hospitality center is what they call it, where their distillery is, has like multiple bars, then they have some.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

Oh, so this might be the side of their whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

It kind of sounds like what Journeyman is trying to do with their new location, which is beautiful, but like has a lot more restaurants and kind of a more like other people are invited in, kind of a almost mall-like a little bit, but so uh Rieger bourbon, yay or nay? What's it would uh Micah? What are your thoughts on on Rieger? Yeah, I would 100% um buy a bottle of this. What did you say the price point was on the that one is a single barrel that's not available, but just their regular bourbon in Ohio is 40 bucks.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Oh, okay. 100%. Next time I see this in um the store, I will get a bottle of it because I think this is a good go-to, quite frankly. And I mean, if this isn't an indication as to what the what the you know, what it will taste like, then yeah, I'm I'm I I actually really did enjoy it. So yeah, I'm a I'm a yay for me.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Feeding off of that, I think that their regular stuff in 90 proof, I might like a little bit better than this one at 130. Okay, like I think 100, like 90 might be too low, I don't know. But I think 130 is a touch too high. I think if you brought it down, like maybe a bond version or something, I'd be really game. 90, I haven't tried yet, so I can't say that for sure. But I'm guessing that I'm I'm probably gonna like it.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

If you see this, buy it because I guarantee you the rest of their offerings are worth every penny. If we can get them into Ohio, they're worth every penny.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

All right, well, next uh next week when I'm doing doing tastings for watershed, I'll I'll pick up a bottle. Since I'll be in I'll be in I'm I'm always in liquor stores, so I'll I'll pick up a bottle and we'll we'll add one more to their list. Yeah, love it. And so we can all try what their 90 fruit version is.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

Yeah, that'd be sound great. That sounds great, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Interesting to taste that one. I've been thinking about anyway, just because it's different. But now I've tried something of theirs, and I can say I at least like their idea. Sounds great. Awesome. Till next time. Until next time. Thanks, guys.

Final Toast And Support The Show

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes. We can be reached on our website, whiskey tasterspa.com, with any ideas for the show. Thanks again.