A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
Navigating the digital divide with self-confessed technophobe Gill
As everyday life becomes more entwined with AI, Alex and Mark catch up with Salford pensioner and grandmother Gill (and her little dog Jesse), to chat about the feeling of being left behind in an increasingly online world. Not one to let these things get her down, Gill shares how she overcame cancer with the help of healthy food, her batch-cooking top tips and how much she looks forward to hub day.
Welcome back to A Slice of Bread and Butter with Alex and Mark from the Bread and Butter Thing. We're a charity that delivers affordable food to the heart of struggling neighbourhoods, to help nourish communities and act as a catalyst for change.
Speaker 2:We provide access to a nutritious, affordable range of food, which means our members can save money on their shopping, feed their families healthily, as well as access other support to right in the heart of their communities.
Speaker 1:And this is where we share a slice of life of somebody involved in bread and butter and hear about how they connect with us. And this is lovely, lovely Jill. I went to see Jill and her little pooch, jesse. It was the same snowy thursday afternoon that we went to see jill scene a few weeks ago. Okay, we had a good old chat by the light of her many, many led candles. It was lovely. For jill, bread and butter is very much a social thing. She's not great at the online stuff and often feels like she's the last to know the goss, so she loves getting down to the hub early to catch up with her friends and have a chinwag in the queue.
Speaker 2:Sounds like a traditional girl.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we hear that. So much don't we we do we do so here's Jill.
Speaker 3:Hello Jill.
Speaker 1:Hello, Thanks ever so much for having us in your home. You're welcome. It's lovely and cosy in here. And who's this in the corner? That is Jess a 15 year old patterdale oh, have you had her, since she was a pup?
Speaker 3:no, I got her 10 years ago. I'm on my own, so I thought right, let's have a dog is she good company? She is and she loves people normally.
Speaker 1:But as she's got older she's got grumpier yeah, haven't we all yes so can you tell me what led you to bread and butter?
Speaker 3:It's actually a friend of mine and another lady and he mentioned about it and we said we'd never heard of it and he registered both of us and said right, you'll get a text, use your text. So we got a text. So we immediately replied yes, and the next day we got the oh, you're in for tomorrow. You know, we're both like what we're gonna do, how do we? What do we do when we get there? But there's a lot of people that will help you out, a lot of people and we went down and we've been going ever since how have you found the whole bread and butter experience?
Speaker 3:it's brilliant. You're getting to talk to different people. You, you stand in the queue and you're talking away to people. You forget the time. We get there relatively early and we've got an hour, say, to chill and do nothing, but we end up talking with different people from all walks young, old, whatever you know churchgoers, non-churchgoers and it is brilliant.
Speaker 3:Tell me about the food because I know you're a batch cooker, aren't you? I do, I do. I like to batch cook Some of the things I've never heard of before. I actually share my bags with my mum and dad. We were still living. They're both 85. So my mum says, well, what she gets is what I don't like, which is very true. So anything with seafood or anything like your pig strotters. We got those one week and I was like what am I gonna do with these? So mum got them, um, and she ended up giving them to a neighbor for his dog. So they came in handy. But yeah, it was some nice stuff, some really nice things that you do get. What's the weirdest thing? The pig's trotters, although the other week we got ringed herring or something, mum got those Now.
Speaker 1:I know from previous chats that we've had that the fresh fruit and veg is a big thing for you.
Speaker 3:It is it is. I can make the jam, I can make pies, I can make anything. Soups are a big thing because you can make a big pot of it and you can freeze it. You know never goes to waste and it's just great because there's so much I can do. Well, anybody can do with it, not just me eat it up, cook it, get it in the freezer and it's brilliant. It sounds like you're a bit nifty in the kitchen. I do like cooking and baking, so everything that we get in that, certainly the fruit. I've made plum jam. I've made made carrot soup, which was a bit. Dad liked it, so we were fine, we knew where that was going.
Speaker 3:So waste not want not, oh no, never waste anything Never.
Speaker 1:Is that a big thing? Is that one of your motivations for using bread and?
Speaker 3:butter. It's fresh. You know that it's not all from the supermarkets.
Speaker 1:There are people that have their own allotments and you get some of that as well and you can tell it's fresh, it's totally different.
Speaker 3:There's still mud on the potatoes and you know things like that. And yeah, it's because it's fresh. Before coming to Bread and Butter, had you used any sort of food support services before? Before coming to Bread and Butter, had you used any sort of food support services before? Never, never. I didn't think I qualified for anything, even though I don't work, and you know I'm on my own and I never went to anything. I never. I never looked into anything. So, for what you get, you get three bags for £8.50. You've got your fresh, your frozen or fridge, and then you've got tin stuff and bits and and you know you can't say any fairer than that for what you get.
Speaker 1:Did you?
Speaker 3:struggle before or ever I wouldn't get fresh things. I would bypass it because the price is just, it's extortionate. You know when you're on a pension and you know you can't always get fresh With this. You do, you know, and if you've got any allergies or anything that you're not too keen on, tell them and they'll say, right, not a problem, you know, and they'll change it. Or if you just carry on with it, like I say, I'll give it my mum.
Speaker 1:I love that and you mentioned to me previously about your health issues and I'm sure fresh fruit and veg is very important. It is.
Speaker 3:I had cancer for 10 years and with that you are very, very lethargic, you are tired, you don't want to do anything and you shut yourself away. Basically, your family are always there to see you get outside. Tired, you don't want to do anything and you shut yourself away. Basically, your family are always there to see you get outside, but you don't. I've got angina. I am diabetic. I'm lucky because it's only grade two diabetes it's not the one. My dad's diabetic and he's one For me to be able to go out and socialise. You know when I go and get the things. This is why we go early to socialise with people, to come back to do what I need to do cooking-wise, with it being fresh produce. It's a no-brainer.
Speaker 1:So the social side of things and the community side of things, is that important to you?
Speaker 3:It always has been. I used to be a church warden many years ago and we used to set up things for the community. We did car boots, we did bingo, we did all kinds of things and it was always a social thing. When I stopped doing that and I moved to where I am now, it all stopped and I didn't moved to where I am now. It all stopped and I didn't go out. I never went anywhere and I know for an hour and a half or whatever on a Thursday afternoon I can actually socialise with other people If you can hear any snoring, snuffling sound in the background.
Speaker 1:That's little Jess having an afternoon nap, quite jealous of a siesta. Yes, she looks very comfy there she is. She is warm and cozy so, just going back to your point about socializing being quite important to you, are you able to get online now and keep in touch with people?
Speaker 3:now? Yes, because the appliances that we were given from the city of Salford, salford Council. They came to one of our groups on a Thursday at TBBT and they were giving away appliances with passwords and everything. And the number of people that say I can't wait to get home. I can't wait to get home. It is a lifeline. I used to be on a computer a few years back but I couldn't afford it. I couldn't afford it, so this has been brilliant to get back in there and on everything's online, online banking.
Speaker 3:I don't even know how to do online banking. I wouldn't know how it's when you get a text through I've had one through from my GPs and it's go to this link or do that and you think but I can't look at your GP notes, I can't. It's not only just with that, it's anything like my glasses. There's always a link and anything with a link. I put my phone down so well. I throw it down sometimes because I can't do it. I must admit I am a little bit nervous about going on it. I'm not really computer savvy but I'll learn. You know, I'm willing to learn as long as somebody sits with me and says oh you know, this is what you do. You try it, I'll do it.
Speaker 1:Do you have broadband?
Speaker 3:Not at the moment. Here you say, the cheapest one is still £30 a month, if not more.
Speaker 1:Have you got an email address? No, We'll sort you out. Jill, We'll sort you out.
Speaker 3:I did have one but I could never remember it. So I'm one of these people. I have to write it down. Yeah, you know it's.
Speaker 1:My brain doesn't operate like that either.
Speaker 3:No, not at all. I rang up somewhere yesterday and they said this will be the last time you'll be hearing this message, we will go to our AI and I'm like what it's all going to change and blah blah, and I'm thinking, oh, I'm not, I can't be dealing with a normal person sometimes. How am I going to deal with an AI?
Speaker 1:I am very, very technophobe, as you can tell. Oh, we'll get you there, we'll get you there.
Speaker 2:Jill's not good with tech, is she?
Speaker 1:No, she definitely wouldn't mind me saying she's rubbish yeah but it's only like our parents right?
Speaker 2:I remember the days when I used to have to program the video recorder for my parents, and I was about 12 at the time. It's a similar thing. It's this fear of technology and getting it wrong.
Speaker 1:But the fact that more and more essential services like the GP, like the dentist, are all moving online. Where does that leave people like Jill?
Speaker 2:In the cold. Yeah, left behind.
Speaker 1:Follow the link. Follow the link.
Speaker 2:You can't and it's important stuff. Yeah, my GP. I can't ring them anymore. I have to go online and they send me text messages. If I want to do something, I have to go in face to face and talk to them, and they're very grumpy when I do that.
Speaker 1:You must be very grumpy to do that, because you're a busy, busy man.
Speaker 2:Yes, I feel quite principled when I go in and do that.
Speaker 1:Yes, ai Jill mentioned.
Speaker 2:Are you just trying to get my attention now in a very northern way? Ai, ai.
Speaker 1:AI is AI, ai is AI If you haven't had a play around on ChatGPT. Ai is a scary thing, especially if you watch the news, which is scaremongering about the powers.
Speaker 2:how it's taking over the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what Jill hears on the news. And then he is her GP saying next time you call us you will be dealing with AI. There's no middle ground.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:It's one extreme to the other and I feel like there needs to be an education piece around AI for the people who aren't great online. So you don't need to be fearful of it and it can be your friend and help, but also to have a little bit of fear because robots might take over the world one day.
Speaker 2:Well, you heard last time I'm a bit of a prepper anyway, so I'll be ready. And no, I'm not sharing, just for the record.
Speaker 1:Have you got a bridge? You're meeting the rest of your family under at a certain time.
Speaker 2:I've been digging for years.
Speaker 1:There's tunnels, there's tunnels, people, there's tunnels. I'm with you when the apocalypse comes.
Speaker 2:So I think the compelling thing that Jill says really is she just feels like she's the last to hear because she's not online.
Speaker 1:That's heartbreaking, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my mum used to say similar things because she had like eight sisters and they were all online on Facebook sharing stuff. Do you remember that kind of tradition of everybody calling each other Sunday tea time?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:See how you are, sort of thing. That was a proper thing. When I was a kid, my mum's sisters all still used to do it and they'd be all updating her on stuff that each of them had been doing and the families had been doing. And she'd be like, how do you know all this stuff? And they'd be hey, kathy, it's Facebook, get on, get on. And I'm sure Jill feels the same. It's sad when it's like that because there's so much out there and it's so rich. But this is why I feel that people left behind digitally is really tough, because we've seen it time and again where it's three components. It's kit Well, she could probably get kit because she got the council kit right but then it's connectivity. So she kind of needs the broadband at a decent price and it's interesting how she said it's still 30 quid. It's not for somebody like you, jill. You can get it cheaper because there are social tariffs out there, but isn't it funny how few people actually know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But then the most expensive bit is confidence, because Jill needs the confidence and the training and experience to be able to actually go off and do it and she needs a handholding for a while to do that For a while yeah.
Speaker 2:And you can't handhold to teach somebody digital online because they don't know how to do online. It has to be face-to-face. Yeah, I do like word of mouth. It's something that helps us a lot and it's almost like a community barometer to me. If there's a good word of mouth, it's a more connected community somehow.
Speaker 1:I like that community barometer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to use that and steal it. Heard it here first.
Speaker 1:Well, they say it's the best source of advertising, don't they? They do they do.
Speaker 2:We see it time and again, right? So what happens is when we first open a hub, people come along and we get the volunteers to do like a trial day. 10 volunteers or 15 volunteers all go home after the first trial day with bags and bags of food and everybody just goes where'd you get that food from? And it just ripples through the community. And we always give assets like flyers or digital things to put on Facebook pages for the communities that we work in and the hubs that we work with. But it's always that ripple effect of people going home with the bags of food and the conversations that they start, and that word of mouth is always the best way.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And then the first visits. This is something that we hear quite a few times, that apprehensiveness to go to a food club feeling like you shouldn't go, almost a little bit guilty about it. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you know what? I've got a theory on this right. So I think this is because there's nowhere near enough food clubs yet. So everybody knows what a food bank is, but hardly anybody knows what a food club is and everybody sees anything that's community based, that's food, as some sort of food bank, and food banks don't have the best reputation for that community feel, etc. Everybody feels kind of stressed when they go because they're typically in crisis etc.
Speaker 1:Now you know, alex, you go to any one of our hubs and the fun places and everybody's up for a chat and engaging and there's always cake and brews doing the rounds, indeed, and the sharing, the sharing all your goodies with neighbors, jill shares with her elderly mum and dad, who are in their 80s. Basically, anything that Jill doesn't like gets palmed off on her mum and dad, and I think I'd be just the same to be, honest. The pig trotters went that way. Talk to me about pig trotters.
Speaker 2:They're a proper thing. You can get them in any butchers pig trotters. They're good, proper thing. You can get them in any butcher's pig trotters. They're good for a stock. So, instead of a ham hock, it's like a cheap alternative and you've still got this same sort of flavour and consistency coming through from a trotter instead. So if you want a proper kind of old school lentil soup, chuck a couple of pig trotters in it rather than a ham hock.
Speaker 1:We had actually somebody on twitter recently. They were doing pig trotter stir fry. Do you get much meat on them?
Speaker 2:no, not a lot, but, as I say, they make good stocks and things, yeah, so you do get quite a bit of gelatin and stuff out of them, so they are a good ingredient. Can you make a meal out of it on its own? No, you can't just sit there and eat a pig trotter.
Speaker 1:You've got to do something with it we're sorry to all the veggies and vegans listening at the moment.
Speaker 2:I'm a veggie I'm a veggie, celebrate it for me as a veggie. I would see it and say do you know? It's a bloody good thing that we're actually using the pig trotters, because I would much rather see that, if we're going to kill an animal to eat it, that we eat all of it, every single of it, every single bit of it, every single bit of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a proper Northern thing, pig trotters. I remember it as a kid but it is funny because they've been cropping up recently in the bags and I don't know. Is there a Northern resurgence of them? Is everybody going a bit old school with pig trotters?
Speaker 1:Oh, I reckon it's a MasterChef thing. They'll bring back the cauliflower and make that trendy. Maybe pig trotters are going to be the next cauliflower. It's always great to hear that people come to Bread and Butter when they've had health issues, and it's the sheer abundance of fruit and veg from our bags that have helped them heal and get back on their feet. And that's exactly what Jill did. She's had a real tough time going through cancer and, thanks to the fruit and veg from our bags and batch cooking and Jill being wily with it, it's been a big part of her recovery.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to tell you something a bit freaky now. I heard Henry Dimbleby speaking recently and you know how in America they use private medical insurance. There's no NHS, it's all through insurance sort of thing and Medicare and all the rest. The insurance companies are all being challenged to get those weight loss drugs, but they're so, so expensive. They've actually started to turn towards prescribing healthy fruit and veg to people instead, because for them to buy fruit and veg for people is significantly cheaper than them to prescribe these pills. Now isn't it ridiculous that people are going to the doctor to say I need a pill, when actually all they're going to say, well, you don't need a pill, you have this fruit and veg. I think that's really controversial. But I think it's also really interesting to think that it's only the economics of the drugs that have made them think, oh, I know, we'll prescribe them fruit and veg and a healthy diet instead and it's no secret that slimming world and weight watchers recommend that people join bread and butter to lose weight and to start eating healthy.
Speaker 1:They've been known to send people our way too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's fascinating because I think we play at it in this country. We talk, a good talk about something called social prescribing right, but we don't do it. The GPs and the NHS aren't necessarily all joined up to say, yes, we should really promote this. And if somebody presents with health issues that we think a good diet would support, they don't strongly say you should go to bread and butter if you can't afford the food or any other food club. It's not just us. In a very bbc fashion he says so I do think they tickle at it. It's another thing where everybody complains about the nhs and the size of it and it's like one and a half million people employed by it nowadays and yet we still don't seem to be able to go upstream and everything's reactive and it's just hitting them everything all day long. But if they just started moving the dial a bit on trying to get people to eat healthier etc and I'm sure there were people listening to this that will be screaming at me saying we do, we, do we do it's not enough.
Speaker 2:It's not enough and the GPs need to do it better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and start them young. Get your kids loving the veg, although sometimes it's easier said than done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but over 80% of our members say they cook better and eat healthier and eat more fruit and veg because of bread and butter thing. Right, that's a killer stat. You can't argue with that, and that just tells us time and time again that access to affordable, nutritious food is a must if we want to try and sort out all of these health issues that so many people have.
Speaker 1:You heard it here first, in fact, no, you heard it here.
Speaker 2:You will hear it here time and again, and again, and again.
Speaker 1:Long live fruit and veg.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway, I've got a bone to pick with you, because how on earth are you going somewhere and seeing somebody as lovely as Jill but, more importantly, with a dog, without me?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I'm sorry, although Jessie wasn't quite as pleased to see us as we were pleased to see her she was getting on a bit she was getting on a bit and she had a little siesta. She was snoring in the corner yep, that's what they do. She wouldn't have been snoring if I was there blue is about probably 37 times bigger than jesse, yeah, and probably 37 times as much trouble bigger than Jesse yeah, and probably 37 times as much trouble.
Speaker 1:Jesse's trouble days were over. She was all for the quiet life. So if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, find us at team tbbt, on instagram, twitter, linkedin or at our website on breadandbutterthingorg and if you have any feedback or thoughts on the podcast, come and chat to us.
Speaker 2:If you want to, you could be our guest. Drop us an email at podcast at breadandbutterthingorg.
Speaker 1:Lastly, we're always open to new members at all of our hubs. If you or anyone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member page on our website.
Speaker 2:I know I always struggle with that as well. I always think joining, but it's Become a Member right, I need to change it. I need to change it and please do all those things that podcasts ask you to do. You know, like us, subscribe to us, leave us a really good review or share us with your friends and chat about us on social. So we will leave the lovely Jill and Jess behind and we will see you next time.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening Bye.
