A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
Tackling debt for a brighter future with Carer Kiera
Kiera juggles the demands of being a young single mum and part-time care work but still finds time to volunteer with Bread and Butter at Broken Cross Primary School. Join Mark and Vic as they chat to Kiera about why community is so important to her, past struggles with debt and changing financial habits for a brighter future.
Hello and welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with Vic and Mark from the Bread and Butter Thing. We're a charity that delivers affordable food to the heart of deprived neighbourhoods, to help nourish communities and act as a catalyst for change.
Speaker 2:We provide access to a nutritious, affordable range of food, which means that our members save money on their shopping, feed their families healthily, as well as accessing other support too, right in the heart of their communities.
Speaker 1:So this is where we meet and share a slice of life of somebody involved in bread and butter and hear about how they connect with us. And this time I was very lucky to go to a primary school and meet Bob the dog, the school dog, but, more importantly, kira.
Speaker 3:I'm Kira and I have been volunteering with the Bread and Butter thing at my local hub for about three months now since we started. So we're quite a new hub, but we're growing quickly and I really enjoy coming every week to help out the community.
Speaker 1:What made you decide to come and volunteer?
Speaker 3:I have always been quite big on community anyway.
Speaker 3:So since I was a child I was always wanting to be involved, especially in the school, and then that really did come through into my adulthood with me.
Speaker 3:But because of work and things like that and having a child of my own, I found it quite difficult to find the time for that.
Speaker 3:So when bread and butter thing came to the school it's so local to me that it was easy to just put aside a couple of hours a week, and it happens to be on a day that I don't work, which is useful. It just aligned just right for me to be able to actually give something back, which is something that is important to me, and I felt like I was missing out on before, I think, because I've been in a situation myself where there's always sort of food on the table but you've not got the ability to go outside of that, put children in clubs, and it was sort of a food comes first before even some of the bills. At times in my life. This was a particularly close to my heart sort of charity to work with, because it just ensures that families can then put their energy and their money into other things that they want to be doing as a family and just bring them closer.
Speaker 1:We're in a school. We're next door to a class, which is super cute. Your school, you came here.
Speaker 3:I did. Yeah, this school is definitely a huge part of my life. I would not have wanted to send my son anywhere else. Everything that they do for their families, everything that the PTA does here it's really community focused and it does feel like exactly the right place to have something like this.
Speaker 1:Tell me why you use bread and butter.
Speaker 3:So at the moment I am working part time because I am a single parent and I have a young child who's in reception at the moment. I've been a single parent his whole life, so for the first couple of years I was unable to work because I didn't have the physical support around me for child care and things like that. I was claiming universal credit and I still am as a top up to my wages and although I wouldn't say that I have to prioritise budgeting food wise, it just takes the pressure off a little bit on those weeks where it is a little bit more difficult. Maybe towards the end of the month it's not quite payday yet and allows you to know that life is going to just continue as normal and, yeah, you're going to still have plenty of food on the table.
Speaker 1:I did a podcast recently with somebody called Claire and you remind me of Akira, but there's a difference, because she relied on her support around her. She had the bank, mum and dad and things around her, and it doesn't sound like you do.
Speaker 3:So I'm 26 now, but I was 21 when my son was born. I hadn't stayed in education for a long time, I'd gone right into work. But in terms of support, my parents are young, so they are still working full-time and they're also in a similar situation that a lot of people in the country are that they are getting by just fine, but they're, you know, they don't have a lot of disposable income. Yeah, and they also don't have the time either. They don't have the time and the resources, so there's no.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's sick today, so he can go with my mum because she's at work too I ask everybody about bread and butter and strange and wonderful things that you've had in your bags.
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, we've not had too much that I've not recognised which is useful, things that people don't expect to get and they're quite glad when they do, because it just adds a little bit of variety to otherwise their usual potatoes, carrots, peas.
Speaker 1:So, going back a bit, I asked everybody recently about COVID and cost of living crisis. How do you feel you're faring compared to pre-COVID?
Speaker 3:I think everybody's, of course, worse off. I have been quite fortunate in that I've been able to see a positive difference in my income, because it's just recently.
Speaker 3:In the last couple of years that I started working Just before Covid, so he was a newborn when we went into lockdown. I was lucky that I didn't have to give birth alone. I do really count my lucky stars for that. But I think financially we had that really awful energy crisis. That was really difficult. I'm on a prepayment meter, which I know you've spoken about before with people, and I could be spending £280 a month on energy for two people in a house because it's just us that live there and I wasn't working then.
Speaker 1:Do you mind me asking how you managed to pay such an energy bill?
Speaker 3:Oh, beg, borrow and steal from other, even priority, bills. And again, that's where the food insecurity comes in, because well, if you know you've put off half of your rent from last month, well, that's going to eat into this month's food budget because you're going to have to catch up.
Speaker 1:It is always playing catch up are you in a social rented, private rented?
Speaker 3:yeah, so I'm in a housing association property, so there is a little bit more leeway there and it's more affordable, which I'm definitely grateful for, but I think it doesn't draw away from the fact that you've still got that pressure. It was really difficult just after COVID. I also had been in some debt prior to that and I'd worked with Christians Against Poverty to achieve a debt relief order. But that does, of course, then mean that now there is no option of credit for me, which I'm glad of, because I'm not sure I would trust myself with it anyway.
Speaker 1:Do you think it forces choices though that debt relief order wasn't in place. Do you think you would seriously consider it?
Speaker 3:I think I probably would have got back into debt, yeah, and so I am quite thankful that it is there, just because it has made me have to budget more thoroughly. It's not as much of a black mark against you as bankruptcy, but it is an insolvency and you flag up straight away on any credit score now and it does feel almost a bit personal. It does feel like no, this person is not responsible with money and, like you say, I think now it does feel a little bit like, oh, I did get myself into that situation, but I am glad that I'm out of it.
Speaker 1:Do you think a lot of people take it because it's too easy?
Speaker 3:I was very young when I began spiralling into debt. I was 18 when I had my first loan with a bank. I wanted to move out and I did move out, but a lot of the money did not end up going on the things that the loan was for.
Speaker 1:A lot of it. A lot of it just happens. Yeah, that's it it was.
Speaker 3:I've got this money in the bank, so I suppose I'll just splash the cash. I will buy these more luxury items that I wouldn't usually buy, but just prioritising the wrong things, and I have never been great at saving. I very much am a. If there's money there, I'm quite likely to find something to spend it on and convince myself that that is what I should be spending it on.
Speaker 1:Now you're talking to me and saying how you budget better, etc. So this is a different Kira that I'm talking to.
Speaker 3:Yes, well, hopefully, for now, the necessity to budget has been eye opening and useful. Not being able to get into more debt has been, I think, a good thing, but personally I do have quite strong beliefs about the age at which people are able to get themselves into that situation. I don't think I ever should have been able to get a loan. I was newly 18 as well. The loan I had was two and a half thousand pounds, which at that age is a lot of money to then not really consider the fact that you've got to pay that back and how are you going to do that? I think there should be a little bit more emphasis on education in terms of money management. It took a couple of years before I had the courage to go to Christians Against Poverty and ask for help.
Speaker 1:We're looking at new responsible Keira, which is great.
Speaker 3:I just really wanted to be in charge of my own life. I wanted that responsibility perhaps before I was quite ready for it and I hadn't quite seen that yet. I wish I'd spent a little bit more time getting to know what it's like to budget, to run a household, to be in charge of those important things in life. That once you're out on your own, you're very much dropped in the deep end. You get used life. That once you're out on your own, you're very much dropped in the deep end. You get used to it and you do maybe grow up a little bit more quickly than others that don't move out of home so early. And I think we're seeing a lot now of people who don't move out of home so early because of the cost of living. As much as that's so hard for so many people, it's probably got its benefits as well, it's's somewhere in the mid-twenties.
Speaker 1:Now for people to leave home.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that's a nice age. There is a bit of a stigma and a bit of a oh, you're being mollycoddled until you're in your twenties, and I don't think that's true. People who leave home later are able to prioritise other things before having all of that responsibility on their shoulders. Do I want to further my education? Do I want to further my education? Do I want to go to university? Do I want to take an apprenticeship and have not quite so much financial pressure? As you know, you're out in the world on your own and you've got to make it work, so you have to go to work and are you thinking about doing anything like that?
Speaker 1:are you thinking of becoming a student?
Speaker 3:I did go back into education a few years back. When you're 16, there's a lot of pressure to know what you want to do and I didn't know. I had no idea. I started my A-levels and didn't enjoy it at all because I had no motivation. I had no end goal. So then, going back into education, I did a healthcare professionals course. I achieved a distinction in that. It was great and I did consider going to university. But I decided that because of that lack of physical support with child care and things, it just isn't for me right now. I was accepted onto a midwifery course at the University of Manchester. That feels like a great achievement, but it's just not for me right now. That necessity is always there and it's just not something that I can do right now. But never say never. Hopefully one day.
Speaker 2:Did you meet Bob's friend? Who's Bob's friend?
Speaker 1:There's two dogs at the school? Oh no, I only met Bob. Oh, I don't know the name for the other friend. There's two dogs at the school. Oh no, I only met Bob.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't know the name for the other one, but there's two of them. They're officially school legit because they're in the Ofsted report as being a good influence on all the children.
Speaker 1:Fantastic and you could definitely see that. So as we were coming out of the room, that we recorded in all the kids coming out of a class and every single one of them was patting bob and giving him a hug, etc. And you could just feel the good vibes for bob yeah, bob's amazing, but so is kira.
Speaker 2:Should we talk about her?
Speaker 1:yes, and whilst I was setting up with kira, it was quite funny because there was a classroom next door and and they started playing the Tidy Up song and I genuinely feel that I'm going to use that at home.
Speaker 3:Let's get busy.
Speaker 2:Let's get busy. It's time to tidy up. I think we could use it in the office.
Speaker 1:I think you're right. But yeah, more importantly, kira, she had so much to say. Some of the stuff that she talked about is really, really interesting, you know, leaving home at 18 and solidly independent, but at the same time, so complicated when it comes to the fact that she got really easy access to loans and it pushed her down a dark route.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but probably quite common.
Speaker 1:And that's the difficulty with it, isn't it? It's that balance between having credit available for people in the right way, but also in a responsible way, and that feels really officious, doesn't it? Or nanny state or something, and it's not. It's just so difficult for people to be able to understand the affordability when they just can see what they want that money for. Kira said it herself. She admitted it openly, didn't she? She said I got a bank loan and then I didn't spend it on what it was meant for, I just had a good time on it.
Speaker 2:And the interest rates are higher too, because there's no credit history, so the bank's not going to take a risk on you, so it's going to make it harder to pay it back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's feeling like a common thread this now Vic. So here is the second one I've talked to recently that's done a debt relief order. We know that there's so many of our members that are borrowing for all the wrong reasons, but for them are clearly necessary reasons so buying food or buying household bills on loan or on a credit card.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's where we're at now, isn't it? Nobody's got anything behind them, and when the money runs out, there's no other options.
Speaker 2:No, nobody's borrowing for a big thing or a treat or a holiday. They're borrowing for the everyday.
Speaker 1:now, I suppose it's really interesting thinking about Kira, because she left home really early, as I did. I don't know what age you left at 18. 18 again. So there you go. Yeah, but nowadays it's much more common for them to be in the mid to high 20s kids before they leave home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mine suggested he's going to move back. I don't know how I feel about this.
Speaker 1:I can feel your pain because I can see mine doing that too. I find it really hard when somebody is trying their best to be independent on their own. And Kira is a single mum trying to do the right things and you just see those traps. She sees the debt relief order as a good thing nowadays because it helped her and stopped her and made a look at some of this stuff that she did. Looking back at younger Kira and taking that loan. But you do wonder where that responsibility lies about what age people should be able to take a loan out. More importantly, what measures are people, the banks, the credit companies, etc. What safeguards are they putting in place to make sure that people are actually taking it, can genuinely afford it, rather than just loosely looking at it?
Speaker 2:It's really hard. There's no right answer, is there? Because without those loans, people wouldn't be able to cope right now. You take them away from people, and what's the situation then?
Speaker 1:And look at what Kira did. Kira went to a faith-based Christian charity to help her with her debt and they got her through the debt relief order because she had that faith-based community around her. What happens if you don't?
Speaker 2:and lots of people leave it too late. So from chatting to other services that we try to engage our members with, like citizens advice, they say they can help up to a point and then after a point it's really tricky but people tend to hide the bills in the drawer, not not want to face the bad news, and then by the time they feel like, oh my goodness, this is something that I can't ignore anymore. They've left it too late to get the best help that they can.
Speaker 1:Speaking of citizen advice, they've got fascinating facts nowadays where they talk about negative budgets. Budgets and the majority of people that they see now are in a place that they describe as negative budget, which just goes to show you that this cost of living crisis is nowhere near over. A negative budget basically means, after housing and energy costs and food bills actually it's not that there's nothing left. People frankly can't afford those costs, so they're having to borrow money to get by.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's where Keira was saying coming and shopping with us and volunteering has a massive impact on taking away a bit of a stress level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? There's so many people out there in this negative budget situation and in Citizen Vice themselves, they say, even after we've done everything we can do to maximize their income, they're still in negative budget. There is nothing else that we can actually do, which is why they're saying to government you need to step in and see this.
Speaker 2:This is the current state of affairs yeah, it's people that are in work, people that are in zero hour contracts or precarious work, people that are on benefits. It's affecting everybody, isn't it? It's not one singular group of people. There's a lot of our members that are doing exactly the right thing, making some difficult, responsible choices, like Kira, to make their lives as best as they can, and it's still not good enough. It's still not doing what they would hope it would achieve.
Speaker 1:But this is exactly why we do what we do, right, totally. The whole point of the podcast really is to show people that actually these aren't people that are taking the mickey, these aren't people slacking it off. These are individuals that are genuinely trying their very, very best to get by. Yeah, and it's still not enough, and they're struggling and they're stretched and they're just simply amazing at coping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super resilient and really friendly and chirpy too, actually, when you go to the hubs you wouldn't think that any of our members have got things like this going on in the background. They come, they seem to forget about it. Have a great time really, so that's lovely to see.
Speaker 1:Isn't it? Yeah, really. So that's lovely to see, isn't it yeah? Speaking of which, if you'd like to know more about bread and butter and our hubs and what we get up to you, you can find us at team tbbt, on instagram and twitter, or on linkedin, or online at breadandbutterthingorg, or even on tiktok, I believe, nowadays yeah, we'll see about that.
Speaker 2:In fact we are.
Speaker 1:We've got 200 followers okay, well, maybe we'll get it up to 201. If yeah, you tell somebody about it okay, and if you've got any feedback or thoughts on the podcast, you can get in touch with us by email at podcast at breadandbutterthingorg we're always open to new members at all of our hubs, so if you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the members page of the website. Big become a member. Become a member, I Become a member. I'm so rubbish at that, apologies.
Speaker 2:It's okay, and please do all the things that podcasts ask you to Like us, subscribe, leave us a review, share us with your friends, chat about us on social.
Speaker 1:Perfect, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2:We will Bye.
