A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
When Life Changes Course: Navigating Benefits While Caring for a Loved One
When life throws a curveball, navigating support systems shouldn't feel like scaling a brick wall. Yet for John, whose partner's sudden health decline forced him to abandon his teaching career and become a full-time carer, that's exactly what happened.
"These numbers don't add up," became John's mantra as he juggled caring responsibilities with punishing 55-hour night shifts at a retail warehouse. Despite his education and determination, the benefits system proved nearly impenetrable. For over a year, crucial support remained hidden from view – energy company hardship schemes, council assistance programs, and debt management options that could have eased his burden considerably.
John's story exposes a fundamental flaw in our welfare system: it's not designed for time-poor people in crisis. When every waking moment is consumed by caring duties and working to keep a roof overhead, who has the energy to search for help they don't even know exists? His experience with Universal Credit – which he aptly describes as "throwing messages into the wind" – reveals how depersonalized and punishment-focused the system has become.
The breakthrough finally came through Durham and Darlington County Carers, who connected John with multiple support services including The Bread and Butter Thing. But this raises troubling questions: Why must essential support be discovered by chance rather than offered systematically? Why are those already carrying society's care burden forced to navigate labyrinthine processes just to survive?
John's powerful testimony demolishes the myth that living on benefits is "easy" or that recipients are "coasting." As he poignantly states, "You're not living – you're just surviving." His story represents countless others in our communities facing similar struggles while caring for loved ones.
What support services have you struggled to access? Have you experienced similar barriers when trying to navigate benefits or support systems? Share your experiences or reach out if you need guidance finding hidden help in your community.
Welcome back to A Slice of Bread and Butter with Vic and Mark from the Bread and Butter thing. We're a charity that delivers affordable food to the heart of struggling neighbourhoods to help nourish communities and act as a catalyst for change.
Speaker 2:We provide access to a nutritious, affordable range of food, which means that our members can save money on their shopping, feed their families healthily, as well as access other and this is where we share a slice of life of somebody involved in bread and butter and hear about how they connect with us. And this week it's John.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's have a listen to John hi, I'm uh, john little, not sure quite what to say about myself, but, um, I am a full-time carer living in the northeast of england. My partner, she's been uh, dealing with a long-term condition for about two years to the day almost. If we flash back to 2023. She was, um, going to the gym about three or four times a week, walking the dog for miles one of the most active people I'd ever met walked the legs off of me every day just started to develop a condition that I'm not going to go too far into, just for privacy and also just it's a little bit grim, but I've just not really been able to get over the doorstep for the past couple of years, so I sort of have fallen to a care position which I wasn't quite prepared for at the time. I've learned a lot along the way, but that's who I am today, so what?
Speaker 1:were you you doing before that, john?
Speaker 3:I was trained to be a teacher. I'd finished up at university and it was like, okay, I've made the mistake of going at the creative arts, so I need to now turn this into a real job.
Speaker 1:Hang on, let's just step back. What was the mistake with the creative arts? What did you do?
Speaker 3:well, writing's always been my passion. That was, uh, the thing. As I was growing up, I was like I'm gonna take this to university, it's gonna be great, I'm gonna come out of university as a writer and I like to think I've done that. But it does not pay a bill, not not a single one.
Speaker 1:So, um, it was time to, yeah, I I'm guessing it's the one or two percenters that make it.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, you really need to be very lucky and, as I've learned, generally have quite a comfortable cushion for when it doesn't work out.
Speaker 1:What sort of things did you?
Speaker 3:write. I still write to this day, to be honest, but it's usually things about the area I grew up in. Often quite grim little stories from the area I grew up in often quite grim little stories, uh, from the area I grew up in. I grew up in a town called concert in county durham. Hello, yep, not there now, but I'm at the other end of the county now, but it's a place I always thought was quite underrepresented, so I thought it'd be nice to sort of try and tell stories there. It's like there's 30 000 people living on one of the tallest places in the country. Why not talk about it? And I've had a lot of fun with it, but, my word, there is no market for it.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So then you thought well, if I can't make a career out of it, I could always teach it. That was the thinking. Yeah, a steadier income.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely, it's just teaching it as it turns out.
Speaker 1:And I'm saying that like it's surprising is one of the most intense jobs that you can possibly try and make a career in. It will come as a surprise to a lot of people, because so many people have that thing. Oh you know, look at all the holidays that teachers get.
Speaker 3:So explain why it's so intense, I think especially for a trainee, because you don't have a lot of resources, you don't have a lot of things to pull from. On its face, you work about eight o'clock to about four o'clock. In reality, you work about 7 30 to about nine o'clock at night every single day just preparing things, marking and so many PowerPoints. I was writing about 8,000 words a day making these lessons and on top of that my partner was just starting to decline in health. We had dogs and we had responsibilities and it was just kind of getting to be quite a lot, shall we say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had a lot of work pressure and then your partner's declining and you've got a lot of pressure at home as well. Someone's got to give right absolutely.
Speaker 3:And um january of 24 I went to the university and just said like I'll see you in september. Essentially I need to deal with this. At the time we were living apart and it was like we're going see you in September. Essentially I need to deal with this. At the time we were living apart and it was like we're going to get a house together, we're going to move in. I'm going to become a full-time carer for as long as it needs to be. I'll pick up a little bit of part-time work where I can to kind of keep things ticking over. But when September came around, things hadn't improved and I had to say I'm gonna go off and that's kind of where we are now.
Speaker 1:So you're moving from earning a wage, should we say, to getting benefits and understanding what supports out there. How did that go it?
Speaker 3:was a lot of trial and error. A lot of the stuff just isn't presented to you especially well. There were are definitely tools to go and find these things, but it's been a year and a bit long process to just find the resources that are available to us.
Speaker 1:Truthfully, so we say hidden help doesn't help, because actually what you want is a point of contact or a website or a reference to be able to go. You've got these problems. Here's the solution, because all of it's readily available through the government, right? So why is it not just there?
Speaker 3:no, that's exactly it. That's how it's felt, even as recently as like last week. I've been just finding schemes that are run by durham county council, that have apparently been there this whole time and no one has mentioned to me. It's like this is ideal for us. This is what we need, and the amount of times like we've had to come cap in hand to like energy providers and debtors and things, only to discover that there are whole schemes available and that we didn't have to be emptying the bank every week in the process of moving we racked up quite a bit of debt. I'm going to call and just say like hey, we can't do this this month, only to discover that, like, apparently they can just take the interest off and that we can just have it a month's grace, my jaws on the floor listening to all these things that I should have been doing or could have been doing for a whole calendar year and no one's told me.
Speaker 1:Where would be the reference points? What would be the best tool for people like yourself, John, to be able to actually go and get that one-stop resource?
Speaker 3:So the one that's been the best for us was Durham and Darton County Carers. They turned us on to so many different opportunities. In fact, they're the ones that told us about the bread and butter thing. They sent us a food voucher just for a particularly grim week. To get that, I had to just get a text from the nhs one day, completely out of the blue, like hey, are you a carer? This might be useful to you. I think a lot more of the support needs to come from universal credit and the job center itself, because they're sort of the first port of call.
Speaker 3:I understand why that's such a brick wall of a resource tell me what you mean by that the thing with universal credit is it's a lot of throwing messages out into the wind and hoping you get a reply and then receiving a message saying, hey, we need to see you on this day and then hoping that that can work with your life. The reality is they've actually not tried to talk to me the whole time we've had this claim because I'm a carer. They have tried to talk to my partner who's registered like unfit for work, like limited capability, so I have to keep trying to talk to them when they won't listen to the fact that I exist. It's little things like that's, like anything that doesn't quite fit.
Speaker 1:It's such a depersonalized system so you haven't got like a case worker, for example no, I don't seem to um, and you've been claiming benefits for how long now?
Speaker 3:A year and a half. So most recently I wrapped up a contract with Tesco. I was working nights just so like I could set the house up, do a lot and then just go off for a night and then I'll see you in the afternoon. It was sort of how we were working. They saw that my contract had ended and they asked to see my partner. Now she couldn't get to the job center to have the meeting. So I was like, okay, can we at least do this over the phone? And they wouldn't respond to that.
Speaker 1:I see why you're calling it a brick wall.
Speaker 3:Well, if you phone them, you can speak to the job center, but you can't speak to them about universal credit.
Speaker 1:And there's no other phone number just for universal credit or anything.
Speaker 3:There is, but it's a call center, so you're, they don't know.
Speaker 1:It's really fascinating because I'm recently learning about a government white paper that came out last year basically saying that they are looking to create, instead of enforcement, officers in the job center they would be more caseworkers, account managers, and trying to actually be the helpful resource rather than the enforcer.
Speaker 3:shall we say, yeah, they clearly know this is an issue they do like that's quite maddening, like it's positive to see someone has recognized this, but the fact that it's still like this. Yeah, last week I was on a training course with some folks who were just talking about the various sanctions they've had whilst trying to do everything right while being on training courses, like getting sanctioned and losing their income just because they can't get through to them. It's a very punishment-led system and to an extent, I understand why, but any sort of exceptional cases and people just get punished for no reason.
Speaker 1:So these guys were getting sanctioned for being on a training course which I'm guessing the job center have put them on Oftentimes. Yes, getting sanctioned for being on a training course which I'm guessing the job center have put them on oftentimes?
Speaker 3:yes, yeah, this is why we do exactly what we do, john, with the podcast, because so many people think, oh, they're on benefits, it's easy, the coasting yeah. For a lot of years before we ended up in this situation, I always felt a sort of a similar way at times, like it's easy to sort of get caught up in in that sort of way of thinking, but it's not enough to live on, you're not living like, you're just surviving. Last Christmas, I was working at 1.55 hour weeks on top of this at um I'm gonna say quite a large uh, retail and warehousing chain, just to get by, and we were still having to rely on different schemes, different things. The numbers weren't adding up, and that's quickly become the reality of our situation, and a phrase that I've said a lot for the past two years is just, these numbers don't add up.
Speaker 1:These numbers don't add up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's really frustrating though.
Speaker 1:So many times, vic, I keep thinking about hidden help. There's a backlash from the people that don't claim benefits, and even john was saying it himself like I would have thought about this as well to say, well, actually you're getting something for nothing, get over it, sort of thing, but it's bloody hard.
Speaker 2:and this guy's educated and still can't navigate the benefit system yeah, and I think you know he's got a lot going on. They've got a lot going on, and then to try and find the energy and the time to put into searching for something that you don't know is there yeah feels almost like why would anybody want to do that?
Speaker 2:why would you go searching for something if you don't know it exists? And then, when you find it and it looks really tricky and you've not got time or energy, if you don't know you're going to get accepted, then do you find it and it looks really tricky and you've not got time or energy. If you don't know you're going to get accepted, then do you waste however long filling out a 20-page form or do you just go? Actually, I need to care for someone and that's going to take priority.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's got to, but at the same time you've got to be able to live and fund yourself, right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so hard and there's so many things that I wanted to pick apart, but obviously it's just a conversation. He's like the people that john knows that are getting sanctioned even though they were going on courses and the way universal credit won't even talk to him. When they're talking to his partner, he's the primary carer, clearly. So there's so many frustrations there. I could just feel it in him and I felt so bad when I told him about that white paper, about how they're trying to soften should we say the approach of the benefits agency or whatever you call it nowadays jobs and supplies it's still a benefits agent.
Speaker 1:It was palpable. Yeah, the of. I'm so annoyed at that because he's struggling still with what he describes as this punishment-led system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like him kind of having the concept that it's a brick wall, even that's like the barriers up, isn't it? So it just makes it really hard for him to go in with fresh eyes and say, you know, and why should he have to? The system should be leaning in towards him, not him having to jump through all the hoops. Yeah, especially in this situation, in his situation.
Speaker 1:And we've heard it from Hayley, from Cab and others and many members talking like this. So I'm just wondering challenge to Vic Harper can you maybe get somebody, one of your civil service friends, to come on the podcast and maybe defend the position of Jobcentre Plus?
Speaker 2:OK, I've got a few ideas on who that could be, whether they're allowed to. Maybe it'd be a different thing.
Speaker 1:That in itself is interesting, isn't it? So let's at least ask listeners can get feedback on as to whether or not we just get like the today program would an official statement, or nobody was available to attend the podcast, even though we'll do it whenever they want us to yeah, okay, and I think you know flipping it and this is absolutely no excuse for for dwp or for the job center pluses, but the members of staff that work there tend to do want to make a difference.
Speaker 1:But then there's a big system and there's a machine behind it okay, so could we, could we get a job centre plus employee then, rather than a civil servant?
Speaker 2:well, maybe we try and get both. But there's a big machine out there, isn't there? That kind of is set up that's got all of these rules and regulations, and it's like what we do at bread and butter. We don't do the rules and regulations because it means that then people lose out or we penalize people and stuff. So we talk about principles, don't we to say, let's have some guiding principles and then we can do the right thing in the middle of those?
Speaker 2:yeah job center plus and dwp are so rigid with the set of rules that then what happens is people like John lose out because they're like a square peg round hole type thing, or their case just doesn't marry up with exactly what that decision tree says, and that's you know.
Speaker 1:It's a structural problem the system is designed and the difficulty with it is it will deal with 80. They. They've gone Pareto, 80% of the people.
Speaker 2:Are you going to explain Pareto principles to everyone?
Speaker 1:Pareto is an 11th century economist who basically realised that if you get 20% of the people had 80% of the wealth, and it's generally an 80-20 rule. So it is the 80-20 rule that he came up with, basically, and there's a lot of history to it, but it's tried and tested and seems to work in most circumstances, so it's definitely a Pareto system. Universal credit yeah. Let's just loop back to John, though, because there were two things really. I mean, what a massive change in his life. They were looking to the future, and then they're hit by this diagnosis and life is changed. He's no longer able to commit to being the university lecturer. He is a full-time carer and then trying to do 50 hours a week doing nights yeah, I mean nights is a killer for anybody in terms of body clock and stuff.
Speaker 2:And then to do that, mixed with caring responsibilities, just feels a lot, a real lot. And you know, going back to my point before, no wonder he doesn't have time to look on the internet for things that he doesn't know that exists in terms of support, because you're just running to make ends meet, aren't you?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the fact that it's taken him a year to find a bit of support.
Speaker 1:That's a long time yeah, I think it's twofold, isn't it? It's like you were saying, because actually he's got to get money to get by. He's working and also being a full-time carer. When has he got a second to actually try and do some proper research to find that help?
Speaker 2:never, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then it's coupled with hidden help, right yeah. So it's a perfect storm for John. Again, we talk about this time and again somebody having to navigate the benefit system for the very first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, john's clearly really clever, super capable, and it just feels like it's an impossibility for people.
Speaker 1:But that's the point really, isn't it? Every time we talk about this, we have found a lot of really bright people that simply can't navigate the life admin that is needed to get buy-on benefits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think life admin is like a skill in itself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And even you've got to get in the right mindset to even start doing it. Well, I do anyway. You're just like right, right, I've got to do all of these jobs today. I've got to speak to the bank, I've got to do this, and you're like big sigh extra coffee right, let's go, but when you're running everywhere, yeah it's tough, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:and then he also had that other issue of debt, because he had existing debt that you know. Whilst he and his partner were working, they could have afforded, but then when your work runs out, your repayments don't stop. And then he had to learn about how to consolidate his debts and all the rest of it. And that wasn't just there for him. And again, because he's running too fast at everything else, yeah, totally. Just gets you in trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you think about John, while his situation's unique to him and his partner, it's not really across our membership base in terms of we've got very busy time poor people that are juggling a lot, caring for lots of different people, and the system isn't set up for time poor.
Speaker 1:It isn't, which is why, fortunately, he found Durham and Darlington County Carers. What a brilliant thing. When he told me about that, I was in two minds because I thought that's fantastic and then at the same time, my head was raging we shouldn't need them. This is going back to if it was easy and accessible and there would support workers with the right attitude.
Speaker 2:But there isn't no, and it shouldn't be that you're penalized if that's the right word in terms of you can't follow your dreams because life's giving you a blow, and then, on top of that, you penalized because it's just really hard yeah it's like a double whammy, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, so why? Why is universal credit and all the benefits wrapped around jobcentre Plus? Why is that?
Speaker 2:What do you mean?
Speaker 1:Well, should that be the central port of call? Is it the central port of call? Where do you actually go?
Speaker 2:So Jobcentre Plus.
Speaker 1:So if I lost, my job tomorrow, if you sacked me tomorrow, Vic, where would I go?
Speaker 2:Jobcentre Plus Mark Right, and they should be able to give you benefits advice. Okay, right and they should be able to give you benefits advice.
Speaker 2:Okay, it used to be called the benefit agency, as you referred to, because you're old clearly older than many of our listeners, and then they changed the name because there was a more focus on work and economic outcomes. But then they should still be providing that holistic support service and it feels like either the work coaches are just too busy I mean mean clue in the title work coach, they're just too busy or it's all on the telephone. How people access the benefits depends anyway. Some of it is just done on the phone through the helpline and you don't really need to go into the centre, but then you don't necessarily get the support and I think that there's a misconception that people that are claiming benefits just want to claim benefits forever and don't want the support. And actually we hear more and more from our listeners that they would love some support but they just don't know how to access it.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 2:But, yes, the Jobcentre Plus should be able to provide that. Yeah, so if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us at Team TBBT on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, LinkedIn or online at breadandbutterthingorg.
Speaker 1:And if you have any feedback or thoughts on the podcast or just want to come and have a natter or be a guest, drop us an email at podcast at breadandbutterthingorg lastly, we're always open to new members at all of our hubs.
Speaker 2:If you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can access your nearest hub on the member section of our website wow, you did, because I've just updated that I know I had a quick squeeze, then to check.
Speaker 1:Please do all the things that podcasts ask you to do Like us, subscribe, leave us a review, share us with your friends, tell everybody about us, not just socials. Tell everyone that was slightly beggy I know, I know Desperate times. See you next time.
Speaker 2:See you next time. See you.
