A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
How Loan Sharks Trap Ordinary People And What Actually Works To Escape
The most dangerous lender in your life might look like a friend. Catherine from Stop Loan Sharks joins us to reveal how illegal moneylenders hide in plain sight—at school gates, in workplace chats, and even on Social Media and why the first loan often feels like a favour before the terms twist into intimidation, shame, and spiralling costs. We unpack “double bubble” repayment traps, the confusion created by no paperwork, and how variable pricing punishes the most vulnerable.
We talk frankly about who gets targeted. It’s not just low-income households. Homeowners and workers get caught too, especially after life shocks like a job loss, a new baby, or a relationship breakdown. We compare safer options such as credit unions and CDFIs, and we’re honest about their limits when budgets are already negative. That’s where awareness and access matter: community conversations at our TBBT hubs help people spot red flags early, ask questions without judgement, and find real support before debt spirals.
Catherine shares powerful wins: a 98% prosecution success rate, over 400 loan sharks taken to court, more than £90 million of illegal debt written off, and tens of thousands of people helped. Most importantly, she explains a lifeline too few know: lending without authorisation is a criminal offence, and illegal debts can be wiped when reported. You can now contact Stop Loan Sharks by WhatsApp on 07700 102773 or call 0300 555 2222 for confidential help.
If you’ve ever wondered whether a “friendly loan” is safe, or you’re supporting someone under pressure, this is a must-listen. Share it with a neighbour, a colleague, or a family member who might need it. Subscribe, leave a review to help others find us, and tell us what support your community needs next.
Hello and welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with me, Vic, and Mark from the Bread and Butter Thing.
SPEAKER_01:We run a network of mobile food clubs that take surplus food from supermarkets, farms and factories and we take it straight into the communities where families are struggling to get by.
SPEAKER_02:So for less than a tenner, our members get bags packed with fruit, veg, fridge food, cupboard staples and a bit of frozen. It's a weekly shop that helps stretch the budget and takes some of the pressure off.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and our members are at the heart of everything we do. They turn food into friendship and neighbours into community, and that's what makes us tick.
SPEAKER_02:And today it's Catherine from Stop Lone Sharks.
SPEAKER_00:A government-funded trading standards team. We're hosted by Birmingham City Council, but we cover the whole country, and we are here to identify, investigate, and prosecute loan sharks or illegal moneylenders, depending on which phrase you prefer. We are very much a team of two halves. We have investigators who go out locking up the bad guys, looking for evidence, taking prosecutions through the courts. And then my team does all the sort of victim support. We look after people who've borrowed from loan sharks. We do lots of awareness raising to try and get people talking about this crime and therefore hopefully not falling foul of it. And lots of preventative work as well, with things like credit union, CDFI saying, you know, if you borrow here in a safe space, then hopefully you don't need the loan from the man at the pub, the woman at the school gates, the bloke at work.
SPEAKER_01:Give me a typical journey of somebody that you interact with and support.
SPEAKER_00:So is there such a thing as a typical journey?
SPEAKER_01:I think I bet there isn't, just like we don't.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I'll give you an example. So it's a weird one because I came into this job with certain preconceptions. I thought the loan sharks would all look like Phil Mitchell, be big burly blokes with both wax. And I thought the victims would all be single mums on benefits living in social housing, and it's just not true. Anyone can be a loan shark, and anyone can be a victim. So the Welsh team actually prosecuted somebody who was 83 and female, a grandma, and she was a loan shark. You know, we've arrested people in their 20s, we've arrested people in their 70s, we've arrested couples, men, women, it can literally be anybody. Sometimes the threat these people have isn't necessarily kind of physicality, it's more coercive control. The people that borrow from loan sharks, again, vary greatly. Men just as likely to borrow as women, old just as likely to borrow as young. And the thing they tend to have in common is they think this person is their friend. So they think this person they're borrowing money from is somebody who is helping them out.
SPEAKER_01:So does this look normally like a new friend?
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes. Not always. Sometimes it's an overheard conversation. You know, you're you're at the school gates and you're moaning about little Jimmy going through the third pair of shoes this term, or the cost of Christmas. You know, you're you're at work and you're saying about the tire that blew up last night, and you know, you've got to find 60 quid to buy a new tyre. It can be someone who's known in the community, as that's who you go to if you need money. It can be a friend of a friend who you're introduced to as somebody that can help you out because your washing machine uh isn't working and you've got three kids and you need to be able to keep clothes clean. It can be as simple as that. We've had loan sharks meet victims online on things like Reddit, but also Snapchat, where they've they've actually sort of touted themselves as someone who's there to help. And you know, I've I've got a bit of spare cash and I'd like to help someone out. So if anyone out there needs a loan, then then I'm I'm your person. And I think that that's what makes them so nefarious. It's this friendly veil that they put over it at the start of somebody who is there to help. Yeah. And it's only further down the line people realise these people are not my friends. Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_01:Obviously, it starts with, I don't know, 65 quid and it's got to be a weekly quid, two quid a week or whatever. But what makes it look like a loan shark? How does it get so difficult and horrific, frankly?
SPEAKER_00:I think a lot of loan sharks will say it's double bubble. So if you ask them about what you've got to pay back, it's double bubble. So you borrow£100, you pay back£200. The problem is that will be so quick that you probably won't have the£200 when it comes to pay it back. So a lady I'm working with at the moment, she borrowed£50 off someone who was her sister's mate, female. And the deal was she paid back£100 at the end of the week, which she did. Because of that, that left her short the next week. So she borrowed£100 the next week, had to pay£200 at the end of that week. She didn't have that. She only had£150, so the loan shark doubled it and said, you now owe me£400. Even though you've paid me£150, you now owe me£400 on that loan. And at that point, Kelly scuppered, she's never gonna have£400 to pay it back. So it spirals and it spirals. And a lot of people have multiple loans with the same loan shark because they have to. Because the interest rate is so high and you're paying back so quickly, it means you have absolutely nothing left. So if you want to put food on the table the week after, you've got to borrow again. And that's how they kind of trap people in this cycle of borrowing, and people have no idea how much they've paid back and how much they owe. So we worked out in really small loans, she'd borrowed£2,600 over a long period of time. She'd pay back at the point at which she came to us£26,000, and the loan shark said she still owed£16,000, so she would have paid£42,000 on just over two and a half grand.
SPEAKER_01:And this is all without paperwork, right?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, no paperwork, no paperwork. And I think that's how it spirals out of control. You know, no one goes into a loan of two and a half grand expecting to pay£42 back. Or the that first loan, that's just a hook. And then they extort money. So another another girl borrowed£50 for school shoes and she agreed to pay back£250. She agreed she'd pay back five times the loan, but she was desperate. She paid back the£250, the loan shark knocks on her door asking for more money, and she refused. She said, We agreed$250. You've had five times what I borrowed. He put on Facebook that she owed him money for drugs. And her mum saw that, her auntie Betty saw that, her employer saw that because they were all Facebook friends with her. And she's gone around and told everybody what's happened. It's a loan in this, this, and the situation. But she said, There's no smoke without fire. There'll be people who believe that. There'll be people who believe I owe money for drugs. I've never touched drugs in my life. And that had such a big impact on her. And she paid back what was agreed.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm lost for words. I I I really am.
SPEAKER_00:And we I mean we've had loan sharks as well who've charged different interests to different people depending on your vulnerability. So we had a lad who came to us, he was in the army, and he he'd borrowed for a laptop and he'd paid back sort of 50% interest. He thought that was fair enough. You know, he'd borrowed two grand, paid back three grand. That was he was fine with that. Then he found out the same bloke was lending to his mum and charging her three times what she borrowed, and lending to his gran and charging her eight times. So the young lad reported this loan shot to us, but not on behalf of himself. He was quite happy with his experience in a way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But on behalf of his gran, who had all these loans and the lines were all blurred and it was all, oh, you owe me this much this week and everything else. That was what sort of pushed his button to make him actually report.
SPEAKER_01:Do you have a handle of scale of this problem?
SPEAKER_00:The honest answer is no. So there is a mathematical model out there which was done by the Centre for Social Justice a couple of years ago, and their figure was 1.08 million people in England using loan sharks, which is 2% of the adult population-ish.
SPEAKER_01:So about 2% of the adult population are using them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Did they put a figure on it as well?
SPEAKER_00:The amount of money, no, they didn't have a clue. The average loan we see does vary. Some years it's sort of£500, some years it's a couple of thousand pounds. And we've had loan sharks doing£20 loans, you know,£40 loans at that end of the scale as well. And we've had loan sharks doing£18,000 loans,£19,000 loans. So it does vary.
SPEAKER_01:So we've done some work together. Can you tell us a bit about that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we've been along to loads, I think we're nearly all now. Brilliant. Of the the Bread and Mother Thing project. And we have been doing leaflets, we have been chatting to people in the queue and just trying to raise awareness. It's really interesting. The biggest reason people don't report loan sharks isn't fear or shame or embarrassment. It's that they have no idea we exist. And they have no idea there's a criminal offence here, which is lending money without authorization. That's the that's the actual criminal offence they commit. So they don't know they're the victim of a crime, they're not going to report the crime.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it's been brilliant. We've been really well received. We've got a shark suit as well, which has been to some other projects which people quite like. It's massive. It's really good in November to wear it because it's really warm. If you wear it for too long in June, you can be at risk of passing out because the mouth's not that big either. So you're breathing in your own carbon dioxide sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:Are we going to see a photo of Kath in a shark suit then?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I have got those. They do exist. They do exist. The point of the shark suit is it's, you know, it's trying to get people talking about it. People do not like talking about money. And we do not like talking about debt. And we know this is the last debt people tend to admit to. So if the shark suit can help break some of those taboos, because you're talking about a stupid person in the shark suit who's liable to faint at any moment, then you know that can only be a good thing.
SPEAKER_01:I'm guessing this must be the lower social demographics as well that are preyed on, shall we say?
SPEAKER_00:Mainly, but not exclusively, I would say. So, you know, I think we had a start last year, one in five of the people we supported was a homeowner. So it can be a kind of asset-rich, cash-poor situation going on.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we also see a lot of working poor, right, nowadays.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Because of the interest rates and because of the way things have fallen recently in the past couple of years, that we're we're seeing a lot more of them.
SPEAKER_00:It's a thing as well about life events, isn't it? You know, quite often we see people have had something happen recently. So that might be, you know, relationship breakdown or a new baby, losing a job redundancy, and suddenly you're living to a level, as we all do, and something changes and you can't live to that level anymore.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. We've looked at this at bread and butter several times. Small loans are really expensive.
SPEAKER_00:So we we promote credit unions and CDFIs, and part of the reason we do is they will lend smaller amounts of money.
SPEAKER_01:What's a CDFI?
SPEAKER_00:Sorry, it is a community development finance institution. So they're a bit like credit unions, but they're not cooperatives, and their interest rate they can charge is higher than the credit unions can charge. So the credit union's interest rates capped by legislation, they can only charge a certain amount. CDFIs can charge more than that, but they tend that tends to mean that they will lend smaller amounts to more high-risk in inverted commerce people. So the aim is, I think, someone should start with a loan with a CDFI, build up enough credit history and credit rating, progress up the ladder almost to a credit union, and then from there go back to mainstream credit, is the idea.
SPEAKER_01:But again, the interest rates that both credit unions and CDFI put on these loans, there's still 40-50%, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, credit unions is cat, I can't remember the exact amount, it's 40-something percent. But they don't all charge.
SPEAKER_01:It's about 47%, I think. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Fundamentally, though, that the problem is there are always going to be people to whom even credit unions and CDFIs cannot lend because you have to have affordability. And if you don't have affordability, you're falling foul of your own regulation and financial ombudsman's beckon and so on. But a lot of the loan shark victims we help, they haven't tried to get credit elsewhere. It's been a conversation, like I say, at the water cooler, an overheard thing in the pub. And this offer of instant cash by someone is too good to be true. But people take it and think it's a friend helping them out and only realise further down the line it's not.
SPEAKER_01:Does the community approach work for you then coming down to hubs like ours?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely it does. I think there's nothing better than speaking to real people. I think you know, you want to get to the heart of what's happening on the state, you've got to go and talk to the people that live there because they know. And it's about trying to get those relationships going and everything else.
SPEAKER_01:You've obviously been around most of ours then. So what's left and what's next?
SPEAKER_00:So we've just launched a service where people can WhatsApp information to us, which we've never had before. So I think we'll probably be coming back with, oh, we've got a different leaflet. Can you put those in packs for us, please? And can you stick post us up at your venues and things like that?
SPEAKER_01:We can definitely do that.
SPEAKER_00:We've always got new things going on.
SPEAKER_01:Do you have any stats on what you've managed to achieve?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, we have. So one of the things we're super proud of, we have a 98% success rate in prosecuting people at court. We've prosecuted over 400 loan sharks, over 600 years in prison sentences, written off over 90 million pounds of illegal debt because the debt disappears when the loan shark is charged, and helped over 36,000 people, I think, something like that. But I think for me, it's always more the stories. It's more that you know, Kelly that I was telling you about. She got to a point where she was going to call social services and say she couldn't look after her own children because she earned something like£1,088 a month, and the loan shark was taking£900 of it. And she broke down to the housing officer. We trained the housing officer a couple of months before. He rang us, and she's such a different woman now. She literally looks 10 years younger, you know, and she's looking after her kids, she's happy in her life, she's got her money that she earns, and she can spend it how she wants to spend it. And that to me is worth the whole, you know. Don't get me wrong, 90 million pounds of illegal debt written off is impressive, but I'd rather talk about Kelly in a way because it's more meaningful, I think.
SPEAKER_01:I was proper gobsmacked at the nefarious ways that people become loan sharks and how they operate. I was like Catherine. I I definitely had like a Phil Mitchell in my head that'd turn up in his old school bobber boots and want his weekly payments sort of thing. It was really shocking how there's so much coercion that goes on.
SPEAKER_02:Like proper shady.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. No, I agree. And I think I think in some respects people have that image because that's probably how it's been portrayed on the TV, on like, yeah, I don't know, let's go with East Enders if we're keeping with the Phil Mitchell thing. And it doesn't help, does it? Because it it doesn't teach you to be more cynical about people that are offering you money. Because you think that it's only going to be that guy, it's only going to be, you know, someone that looks like that image in your head. Yeah. And so when it's that 83-year-old grandma that's mind-blowing.
SPEAKER_01:It's just it was shocking, wasn't it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Like life tells you to trust your elders and all of that kind of stuff, doesn't it? And then or the friend of a friend that you've been, you know, you've been whinging at the school gates, and then suddenly this friend of a friend, well, they've been referred to me almost. It's trusted.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And yet it's so not.
SPEAKER_01:No, uh so hard. And the and the social media shaming was outrageous.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. And to your employer as well. So, you know, it goes back to that thing that we're always saying, we've all got lots of members that are trying to keep their head above water and they're working and they're doing everything that everyone would want. And they're probably thinking, Oh god, if it can just get over this one little hurdle, yeah, and this is my answer. And then the woman that had two thousand pounds worth of debt that was like 42.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just crazy. But it but this this is how it works, isn't it? It's all done on a handshake, no paperwork, you don't know where you are, you're not getting statements. How do you keep up with it?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you don't, and I think you'd be really like if there's some dude knocking at your door of an evening going, well, no, you still owe me more, I mean, yeah, you'd be quite intimidated.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I touched on this with Catherine, but there's two things that I still want to do in life, Vic, and one of them is this access to affordable debt for low-income homes in a way that is affordable, right? So this is this is why I was still doing this thing to Catherine as well, saying even credit unions are still expensive because you know 40 odd percent APR is not what the standard Joe on the street is paying for anything nowadays.
SPEAKER_02:I totally agree, and you're making a really serious point. But when you said there's this thing that I really want to do, I thought you were gonna say wear the shark suit.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you didn't let me finish to come to my second point, did you?
SPEAKER_02:So, yeah, sorry for interrupting.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no, I I get it, I get it. You're clearly in a flippant mood today, no problem. Happy New Year to you too, Vic. Um, but it also makes me reflect on it, right? Because I know we don't say cash first and we don't support cash first, but it's clear that people haven't got a pot to pee in, and this is what drives people to this. And even with affordable debt, it wouldn't be enough, right? Because what we've actually got with with let's say you legitimise something that's an affordable loan for people. So let's live in this utopian world where loan sharks could be replaced by people that actually are doing something legit, they still have to go through the affordability process. And I would imagine the vast majority of people that are getting money from loan sharks would fail that affordability piece where they go, Oh, can you afford to actually repay this debt? Let's have a look at your outgoings income. No, you can't.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because we talk all the time about negative budgets, and if you've got a negative budget, you're never going to pass the affordability test. But then there's also that thing about is it easier to get the money from the loan shark? Because they'll meet you in the playground and it'll be, you know, or at your front door, because you've not got this form and you've not got to go into this building that looks like a bank and feels scary. And so it's a double whammy, isn't it? It's it's the ease of getting it, the convenience of a loan shark.
SPEAKER_01:Dare I say that it's access and affordability, Vic.
SPEAKER_02:Ooh, I'll led you to that, Mark. Well, it's not though, it's access, but it's absolutely not affordability. Because okay, you can't pass the affordability test up front, but you equally can't afford to pay it back. So that's like two thirds of a coin.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but it reminds me of the old catalogue days, right? I remember in the 70s that the um catalogues that used to come out that were like a couple of inches thick, and I used to love flicking through the toy section of it, you know, the the analogue version of the internet.
SPEAKER_02:Like the Argos catalogue when that was a big one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but it was Great Universal, was it was the one, and it was like solid, it was like uh a tome on its own. But everything that was in there was priced on a weekly pence per week sort of thing. It it there was no price on it, it was just like 10p a week. You can see it, and he's just like, you know, that's affordable because I can do that. But but you know, when you get several of them, it soon adds up, and suddenly when you're paying a fiver a week and you go, Oh my god, where's all that money gone?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think that that's mad that a catalogue wouldn't have an actual price. Like essentially, you've got to have it on the drip, that's the only option. It feels mind-blowing, but then it's not it's not a new problem, is it?
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_02:So everybody, you know, so I think life's got worse. The way that people access this kind of stuff has changed, but you'd also kind of think we know it's there, and there seems to be loads of people that do they trust that the that the loan chart's gonna be okay, or is it past that? And either they know that it's dodgy, but they feel like they've got no other option.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I d I don't know. It just it just makes me feel that we're we're still in this space where I guess going back to your point, the the negative budgets is the big thing, and people realising that actually, even when you're desperate, it's just not the right thing. A loan shark. And I I suppose Catherine's key takeaway, particularly at this time of year, right? We're coming into the new year, all the bills are racking up now, and everybody's hungry to get repayments. Now is the time to recognise that this organization is out there. Stop loan sharks is somebody that could actually help you with your debts. Because if you've got informal debts from a loan shark as well, just remember that the reward for dobbing them in, you your debts get cancelled because they're not formal debts.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so we know that all of our members aren't digital.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So, and they were talking about the WhatsApp.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it's probably worth us telling people what their WhatsApp number is. Because if you're listening to this and you you don't have like the internet or you've not, how'd you find out about them? And that's part of Catherine's point, isn't it? That people just don't know that they exist. And You know, by going to our hubs, they're breaking down those barriers and people are going, you know, oh, and that people don't know that a loan shark's illegal and that they could get the support and then it would write off the debts, like you say.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And 90 million today is a stunning number.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then, you know, also the the fact that 2% of the adult population of the UK are using loan sharks.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's scary volumes that are doing it. And what what surprised me as well was when Catherine said, well, it's not just kind of the lower demographics and there's homeowners. Well, we know that the ones that are being pinched the most, and and our recent surveys telling us again that actually the people that are just above the thresholds for certain benefits, etc., are the ones that are being hit hardest by all of these interest rises, inflation, etc., etc., that and can't get that government support, they're the ones that will be preyed on most, I guess, by loan sharks.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it was the story of the guy got his laptop and he'd got like he got a grand and paid back or two grand and he paid back three. So, and then but grandma's got like three times to pay back.
SPEAKER_01:Eight times grandma.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Mum was three times and eight times grandma, and that's what you can do when you're not regulated, right? The more vulnerable somebody is, the higher the rate. Because all they're doing is how much can I get away with?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And it's not okay, but I'm, you know, I was chatting about this phrase loan shark. And I reckon that there's a load of people, and you know, we touched on it a little bit before, but like what does a loan shark look like? You know, they don't have it on their jumper, like they could look like they're the nicest person ever, and you feel like they're actually your friend. Yeah. And even if you knew about loan sharks, you'd be like, oh well, so-and-so's not a loan shark. They can't be. They're helping me out. Yeah. Yeah. And so that makes it really hard because not all loan sharks look the same, is uh, I guess, what we're saying.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I suppose if we look at it, and Catherine kept talking about blurred lines, right? There are really blurred lines here because we know that we have so many members that rely on friends and family for helping them out when it hits the fan. Well, how many of these call so-called friends are actually these loan sharks?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Just don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's so complicated. And you can understand why you know, if you've trusted someone to give you this money, and then you've gone from two grand to you're heading towards your 42 grand, at what point does it get that you think, oh my god, I think this is a problem? Yeah. And then at what point does it get like, actually, I'm really embarrassed, I can't do anything about this because I feel stupid. And people shouldn't feel stupid, and they should just like raise the flag as soon as possible to check it out. And it's brilliant that you know, we have people like Catherine on the podcast, and they're they're not judging, they just want to help, they know it's a problem.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So the moral of the story again is you know, I guess look at it yourself if you're in a situation and if you think you're compromised, shout out. Tell Stop Loan Sharks about it, and and they'll do something about it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So the WhatsApp number is oh double seven double zero one zero two seven seven three.
SPEAKER_01:Do it again.
SPEAKER_02:O double seven double zero one zero two seven seven three. Or the catchier number is an O three hundred number, which is O three hundred five five five double two double two.
SPEAKER_01:Cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And it says on their website there are 108 million people in debt to a loan chart in England. You are not alone. Great that the support's there for people, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:So if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us at Team TBBT on Instagram and Twitter, TikTok, LinkedIn, or online at breadandbutthing.org.
SPEAKER_01:And if you have any feedback or thoughts on the podcast or would like to come and be our guest, come in a manata. Drop us an email at podcast at breadandbutterthing.org.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and we're always open to new members at all of our hubs. If you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member pages of the website.
SPEAKER_01:And please do all of those things that podcasts ask you to. Like us, subscribe to us, make it a new year's resolution to bring a new listener to our podcast. See you next time.
SPEAKER_02:See ya.
