How Close Are We All To The Edge?

A good job and a full life can look solid right up until the moment it isn’t. We’re in Stockton talking with Tony, who spent decades working in television graphics before a run of changes knocked everything sideways: technology reshaping the industry, the Greek financial crash draining savings, serious illness, and then a painful return to the UK marked by grief, instability and homelessness. It’s not a neat story, but it’s an honest one and it shows how quickly “doing fine” can become “starting again from the bottom”.

We dig into what helped Tony rebuild, and it isn’t just a pay packet. Volunteering becomes a turning point, giving him structure, skills, and a reason to get up when life feels thin. That leads into why community organisations matter when they treat people with dignity and make support feel normal rather than conditional. We also get into a bigger question that keeps coming up for us: if money gets easier through something like universal basic income, what about purpose, connection and mental wellbeing?

Food runs through it all. Tony talks about living on yellow label bargains, planning meals around what’s available, and how Bread and Butter’s affordable weekly shop changes the rhythm of a week. It’s practical, it’s personal, and it’s full of the kind of small moments that reveal what community really looks like. If you care about food insecurity, surplus food redistribution, the cost of living crisis, volunteering, and what homelessness can actually look like, you’ll find a lot to sit with here.

Subscribe for more stories from our hubs, share this with someone who needs a lift, and leave us a review so more people can find the podcast. What part of Tony’s journey hit closest to home for you?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello and welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with me, Vic and Mark. We're from the Bread and Butter Think.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

We run a network of mobile food clubs that take surface food from supermarkets, farms and factories. We take it straight into communities where families are struggling to get by.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yeah, for less than a tenner, our members get bags packed with fruit, veg, fridge food, and cupboard staples. It's a weekly shop that helps stretch the budget and hopefully take some of the pressure off.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Yeah, and our members are at the heart of everything we do. They turn food into friendship and neighbours into community, and that's what makes us tick.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

And today you've been chatting to Tony from Stockton.

Tony’s TV Career Begins

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Indeed, let's have a listen. And you just told me that you used to be in television.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yeah. Good old 30 years. Yeah, doing what? Um I've always done graphics since the 80s. I worked in a subsidiary of Central, which is in Birmingham. Yeah. And we did all the advertising. They decided that they had a lot of local adverts, so they said we'll make a production house. And it was great. It was it was a you know, it was fresh student, so every bit of money that was coming in was just millions. Uh they gave me a company car from the onslaught, which was amazing because I couldn't drive, yeah, and it was sat in the car park for about six months. It was amazing because you know I was 20, 24, 24. I'm from a very poor background, you know, working class. My mum worked in the Asda uh all her life, and my dad was uh taxi driver. So for me it was like um I'm working in television, mum and dad, and they loved it because they thought television's one building and it's Coronation Street at one end and East Enders at the other end. And uh they were loved it. I I used to work, we didn't do much, but my first thing was just putting the adverts between Beatles about in television.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

You remember that about I do. So you got 30 years out of a television career? Yeah. Good money, loads, yeah. Yeah. Now we're sat in Stockton, now we're sat in a community centre, and you're at bread and butter. What's gone on?

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Where could I start? I mean, um I'll say that uh I was sat reading a magazine back in 1990, Christmas 1989, and I saw that TV was uh booming in Greece. It just started there and just got colour television in '89. So I thought, right, I'm still young, let's go and do it.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Central to Greece.

Crash Illness And Coming Home

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Literally, I got I got on a flight March the third, 1990. Yeah. I had Stone Roses on my headphones, the the album that was out then. Uh don't ask me what it was. Um, and I got off the plane. I saw, oh, the funny thing is, on the plane, um, Ian Paisley was sat next to me. You know the The Rev. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and I I won't use the words on the podcast, but uh he said this is awful meat, and he gave me a Milky Way, and I kept it for ages, and then I had a lodger in Greece and he ate it, and I said, That's Ian Paisley's Kit Kat there he got. But he has a famous quote when he uh when he came through customs, you know, his famous quote, No surrender. The security guard just took him and said, hands up, please, and everyone in the horizontal shout, No surrender! That was funny, but yeah, I knew it was going to be an adventure when I first got off the plane. But yeah, um, unfortunately, technology changes, big companies, what what you could do with a computer that was as big as a fridge became on your phone. I can do the same, not exactly, I can do the same on my phone now, yeah. But um things changed. So what what brought you back then? A lot of things. The big huge crash of 2009 that hit Greece really badly. Greece was in debt, and things uh just got really bad. And I'd I'd mastered quite a bit of savings, but it just disappeared. You know, school I had the school for my daughter 500 quid a month, euros a month. The money just flew flew away and all my savings went. And is that what brought you home? No, well, uh Greece never got better. Now they've got AI. A lot of the jobs were taken, now AI's taken all the past production jobs. Um, but I don't think it's recovered, and I'm 60 now, so it's it's I'm just too old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I came home. Um a couple of reasons. I was ill in hospital for six weeks in Greece, and because things were tough, I wasn't eating enough. So I lost I lost five stone and um my legs gave in. I couldn't walk. I was walking around with friends, I just kept on falling over, and they were going, What am I? I no idea. My legs just kept on giving in. And the doctor just said, we can't find out what's wrong with her. We've given you every test we can think of, from syphilis through T we've done a HIV, um, we can't work out why you can't walk. And I went, I just had enough, and I said, Can you sign me out, please? At the same time, simultaneously, my father-in-law died, even though I was I was married and divorced, by the way, I haven't mentioned that. And my dad called and said, Son, I've got cancer. So I went, Oh, things are getting pretty weird here. That's it. And so I uh managed to get to England and then um things weren't much better here. Then my dad died, and I was the sort of head of the house, being the eldest, but and it was only a rented house. But my sister, we never got on, so my sister just said, Right, get out of the house. And um, so I ended up on the streets. How old were you at that point? How old? Yeah. Fifty-two. Savings and everything gone by everything's gone, yeah. Everything's gone. It's it's quite a few years ago. The savings were gone in Greece. I had to sell my DVD player to get a ticket to home.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Right, so now you're on the streets with no money and no job.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

What do you do? Uh I went to a place in Stockton. I was told to go to the council. Uh the one thing that put me there, I I'd only spent four days on the streets. It's not a lot. But um to educate you. I it was horrible. And they put me in hell on earth. It's the people that come out of jail, the drugs abusers, the drug dealers, the murderers, everyone's in the street. And I just dreaded it having to go up there. I was in there a year. I uh it changed my life. Yeah, it's a homeless hostel. Yeah. So it's not nice. Uh the things that happened in there were nightmares. But this is where I remember being inspired by Porridge and Gobba. Do you remember?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

I do I remember 2767 Gobbra, was it?

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yeah, and do you remember he he wanted to get on in the prison so uh you learn to cook? I went down to sign up and fill my papers out that I'm homeless, blah blah blah. And they said, we have a cookery course land ran by a charity called Little Sprouts, and you can sign up for that if you want. And I went in. The lady there was great, she said, we'll have to do your food hygiene. Did a food hygiene and um started doing little sprouts so I was homeless, but this is where the volunteering thing came in into my life, if you want to know the roots of volunteering. And uh, we had to feed about a hundred people that were coming to a cafe. I l I loved the fact that you know you're helping somebody out. Yeah. I never looked down on these people, and uh and uh you you were one of them, you know, that's the main thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Well you got a t-shirt for sure, Tony.

Volunteering Builds A New Life

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah, so I I just had respected what was going on in their life.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

So how did you get a house?

SPEAKER_02 7:32

How did you There was a point you sort of overstayed, and one of the owners just said to me, They used to come into the cafe and and to have a chat and get a meal and said, Are you looking for a place? We've got a place just opened up in Portrach, which is where I live now. They showed me it. I thought this is great. Very simple one bedroom flat, but uh and it was redone with carpeting and things, and I said. Yeah, I haven't moved, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

How long have you been there?

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Well since then, 2019. I was a year homeless, 18 to 19, yeah, until now. It was tough though. So, how'd you find bread and butter? How did I find it? Um so while I was homeless, I started, I opened up the paperwork and then I got the flat in 19. So I became a graphic designer, self-employed, and I did that until boom, we had the big pandemic. I became unin unemployed again. And I went on a training course, this is 2022, and the guy in charge of it just said, Do you want to run a cafe for us? We've got this new concept called Pay as you feel, where it's for the community, and it was just like the cafe at the Hartington Road where I was, so I said, Yeah, sure. And it's a community cafe, you know, you could pay 50p if you wanted a full English, it doesn't matter. It's all discreet, we didn't see what you were putting in. And we did that, um, I became unemployed again. And by the way, throughout all of this, I was working at a place called Catalyst as a volunteer. A Catalyst, they're a charity that helped charities. And uh a lady at uh Catalyst just said, There's a new thing started up in uh Newtown, which is near you. Do you want to go and do it? And I went, Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

And that was Bread and Butter.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Bread and butter, yeah. It was a bit of a what's going on, because like you see this truck coming in and all the vegas through and you got a sort of that, and it was a bit of a panic the first day, but I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

It takes a few weeks to get a rhythm, right?

Bread And Butter And Yellow Labels

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Yeah. It was quite a a shock the first uh the first few weeks. So I was volunteering there, and only last summer I was walking past the Ark, which is in Stockton, it's a big art centre, it's brilliant. But they were just looking for volunteers, so I I thought I'm in the kitchen again. I don't see if they've got any need for volunteers. And I met the guys there and they said, Yeah, sure, come along. I've been there ever since, and I absolutely love that as well. I do that three days a week. Tell me what you like about bread and butter. Because I've had a rough quite a few years, I was always yellow label in the in Asda. So I I base all my menu, my week's food, I base it all on what I get. But I've got practice with that from working at the cafe. That was based on that.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

For the seasoned listener, they'll know what a yellow label is.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

The stuff that's uh got to go quickly, what do you call it? Uh sell by reduced to clear, yeah. I I've been living off that for I like a good yellow label. Yeah, the the the way I plan with um this place is just it's just dictates where I'm gonna eat. And in the year I've been doing this, I haven't went to the normal counters. I don't need to. I don't go shopping anymore for like I used to. This is my shop for the week. I just get top-up things like I might need rice, I might need this, I might need that. But I'll uh when I'm packing, especially the fridge one, I I pack in it and go, yep, there's a meal.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Yeah, you're busy planning while you're packing. Yeah, yeah. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

And I and I I can say I've never had a bad week ever. I'm not big enough because it's sat there. But the good thing is, I I'm not living in a wealthy place, and there's a lot of people on benefits where I live. So I just take extra stuff for them.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

And um share the love. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And uh they love it. I know where they're gonna be knocking on my door at five o'clock today when I get home. What have you got today?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

What a dude.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Yeah, what a story.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah, it's weird to begin with Tony's story, really, isn't it? It's like he had it all and lost it all.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah, like a really rich but roller coaster of life, really.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

I did love when he said that his mum and dad were really chuffed that he'd got Antelly because he thought it was like one big thing and Cory was at one end and East Anders was at the other. And I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

But it just goes to show how fragile things are, right? You know, then the people that say you're three salaries away from homelessness and all the rest of it. Well, that's Tony.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah, and it sounds like he'd been digging deep while he was in Greece.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

And then everything, it was kind of like, I don't know why they call it a perfect storm, because it's like a terrible storm, isn't it, when everything just happened.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

You see, we're going back to post-code lottery, you're challenging all of these metaphors, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Well, they just don't make sense in my weird head. Anyway, it was a perfect storm, wasn't it? Like financial crash in Greece, and then really struggling, and then lots going on back in the UK. But like to start again in you know what probably doesn't feel like your own country or is like really quite alien, and to do that from the bottom is um yeah, some undertaking.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah, he clearly had a tough journey, and it is a coming together, isn't it, of so many things going wrong for Tony all at once. Yeah, it just made me think time and again when I saw him, because he he's a lovely bloke, and it just felt like life had given a good kicking at times.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

But what amazes me about our members, and you hear it in many of the podcasts, life's kicking them and they can still smile.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Like they can still see a positive or you know, dig even deeper to cope with it. And that's yeah, that's phenomenal, really.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah, well, you're you're triggering me now, because I was going to say something similar to the yay and naysayers, particularly the naysayers that talk to us and say, Well, it's a selected group, you're a lot, and you know, they're a minority, and not everybody's like that. It's just like how many times have you got to meet people of different walks and different backgrounds and different geographies before people start recognising that actually this podcast is about normal people in normal circumstances, and life is just tough.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, we are not finding needles in haystacks, are we? I mean, like we'd be doing a bloody brilliant job if we were. We actually don't try that hard. You just go and chat to people.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

I'm taking issue with that.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

We're not so into the story, are we? We're not into anybody.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Everybody's got a story, and everybody will talk to us. And as you say, they're not Neils in haystacks. If anybody wanted to come to any one of our giving hubs on any day of the week, you will get a dozen stories like this every day.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah, yeah. Which is, you know, that's what makes our hubs so inclusive and welcoming and like have such a brilliant kind of buzz around them, really. Yeah, because they're full of Tony's and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

So I'd never had a TV do before, and he was fun, and he did have some celebrity stories that I can't share, I'm afraid.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

But that's just a teaser.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah, I know. Sorry, I shouldn't have done that, but hey. But it feels to me like it Tony found his way through volunteering.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah, and actually not volunteering because it gave him something to do. It wasn't like, oh, I need to do something to fill my time. It wasn't like that. It was about no having a reason to get up and and do something positive. I think it genuinely felt like it was coming from a really great place where obviously we benefit from Tony's volunteering, other organizations do, but he equally benefits from doing that activity too. Yeah, that's when it works the best, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So can I can I twist a curveball in here?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Oh, go on then.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Well, this is one of my issues around universal basic income, right? Because Tony found purpose through volunteering. If you just give everybody a basic income and don't give them something to do, isn't there a load of mental pressure behind that?

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Well, I don't think you need to worry about universal basic income because it ain't happening anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

So it's a total hypothetical, but I think that looks different for everybody. So if we look across, you know, all of our volunteers and all of our members, they've all got different things that make them tick. Some people are caring for other people. I think I'd be worried that saying if you get UBI, you've got to volunteer or work still feels quite narrow.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

I I get that. I I do get that. I just I've I've heard so many people talk about UBI on different levels, and particularly talking about it for people that have got arts or creativity that they can actually then lean into. And it I it just felt like you know, that was really middle class way of looking at it versus that just feels like hobby money. Yeah, exactly. You know, because I don't know, I could learn to ride a unicycle if somebody gave me UBI sort of thing. It was just a bit Vic, I've heard it too many times, too many times. This is why I'm saying it's not just finance, it's purpose.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And friendship and connection and all of that. That's totally correct. But I don't think UBI is gonna happen, so I don't think we need to really worry about that. I'm sure the Treasury have got other things to worry about right now, as well as uh I'm sure they do what's happening in the UK.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

So Yeah, I in fact I'm not sure. I'm a hundred percent certain they do.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah, but you're right, in terms of volunteering, we massively benefit from volunteers, but I really love the fact that we've got that reciprocal arrangement with our volunteers. So we know they're helping us, yeah, but actually they're getting something genuinely brilliant out of being part of the bread and butter family because that's what they are.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Symbiotic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

So Did you just say the word symbiotic?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Such a poncy word.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

I've got word a day, Lou, what can I tell you?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Wow. I mean, I think reciprocal is bad enough, but symbiotic's like extra.

Yellow Label Bargains And A Peas Fiasco

SPEAKER_01 17:40

I know you've got a story about yellow labels as well. Because what's your favourite thing on a Friday Vic?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

To go and do a yellow label shop on my way home. What's wrong with that?

SPEAKER_01 17:49

There's nothing wrong with it. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's a great thing. I'll do exactly the same thing. I just I'm just not as routine as you with it.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Well, the other thing is, it's not just me, I've got the fam doing it. So the other day, I went, I didn't have any tea in and I'd worked late and I stopped at the little Sainsbury's near me, which isn't a convenience store, but it's not a full shop. And thought, right, what yellow labels can I get? And then Jacob came in later and went, look at my yellow label that I got in the Sainsbows, and we'd bought the exact same yellow label for Attie.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

So competitive yellow labelling.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Oh no, yeah, we do that. And if you get one that's a really good one, it goes in the like the family group chat, the WhatsApp chat, like look at my yellow. Oh, yeah, we're proud of this. So before you do it from a waste perspective, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:39

No, no, no, no, no, no. You're clearly an experienced yellow shopper. So where's the best yellow shop?

SPEAKER_00 18:44

It all depends on time, and every shop's got its own different time. So really, and this is very niche, but the best yellow shop is on Christmas Eve in Marks and Spencer's Impresswitch. It's very niche.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Well, yeah, and not only is it once a year, but it's one shop.

unknown 19:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

You are I did warn you. But I think you know, like the yellow labels, we used to do it from a waste perspective. Save them, you can put them in your fridge, whatever. But now there's products that I get on a yellow label that I think actually it's on a yellow label, but that is only what it's worth. You know, I wouldn't buy it if it was more.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

So do you think it's devalued it then?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

I think the cost of food is so great that now the yellow label just makes it feel like, oh, I feel like I've not been ripped off by this item.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

So what's your best ever bargain? It's clearly going to be tattooed in your brain, this one.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

No, it's not actually, but it's from ages ago. You know, when you go into maybe Morrison's discounted something ridiculously and it was like, you know, 25p or something. And then you just buy all 10 of the things that are in there, even though you then got to struggle to eat them, and you've got to eat the same thing a lot of times or freeze it, the wrong behaviour generated.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

It's relative as well, though, Vic. Because when I used to run Company Sharp, it was back in the days, and it's coming back. It was when Tesco had the cheap brand that was just the uh Tesco value range, and it looked like blue and white pajamas, yeah, the stripes, and we bought something like a hundred pallets of Tesco value processed peas.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Oh god, what were you thinking?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

I I I don't know what we were thinking, but essentially, just to go through the math, we bought them at a penny a tin and they retailed at 10p a tin. So they massive bargain, right? But we tried to sell them at 2p each, and everybody just walked past them, and eventually we just stuck them behind the checkout and please take some cans of peas and went for free.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

So if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us at Team TBBT on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, LinkedIn, or online at breadandbutterthing.org.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

And Vic, we've had somebody write in and ask to come in. So somebody has actually emailed us to podcast at breadandbutthing.org and we'll be coming on to the podcast. So if you'd also yeah, I know. And if anybody else would like to, drop us a line. Email us at podcast at breadandbutthing.org.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah, we're always open to new members at all of our hubs. So if you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member page of the website. And we are genuinely open to everyone, and you don't have to be proving that you need us.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

We're not means tested.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

No, there's no criteria or eligibility.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

And please do all those things that podcast asks you to do. Like us, subscribe to us, and leave us a review or share us with your mates and chat about us. I'm sure we've got that be good. We'll see you next time.