A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
Food, Friendship, And Pam
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Pam answers the door at nearly 88 and instantly resets our expectations of ageing, resilience, and what it means to stay open to life. She’s sharp, funny, and still chasing new plans, from finding a fresh dance class to making the most of every week. As she tells it, the most powerful part of her story isn’t a grand speech, it’s the steady, practical choices that helped her cope when money was tight and life forced her to learn fast.
We talk about The Bread and Butter Thing and why a mobile food club matters right now. Pam breaks down the real-world difference between £8.50 at a supermarket and £8.50 at the hub, and she nails a truth we hear again and again around the country, it’s not just the items, it’s the volume, the flexibility, and the cooking confidence it unlocks.
“The food’s a bonus.” What she’s really describing is community. After 25 years in her home without knowing many neighbours, she finds friendship in the hub, warmth from volunteers, and the kind of regular connection that turns strangers into familiar faces. Along the way we get stories about fostering, thrift, old-school saving stamps, and a ballroom moment she wanted “before I die” that somehow becomes a lesson in dignity and joy.
If you enjoy honest conversations about affordable food, food insecurity in the UK, reducing food waste, and building community that actually feels human, subscribe, share the pod, and leave us a review.
Welcome And What We Do
SPEAKER_02Hello and welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with me, Nick and Mumma. We're from the Bread and Butter Thing.
SPEAKER_03We run a network of mobile food clubs that take surplus food from supermarkets, farms and factories, and we take it straight into communities where families are struggling to get by.
SPEAKER_01For less than a tenner, our members get bags packed with fruit, veg, fridge food, and cupboard staples. It's a weekly shop that helps stretch the budget and hopefully takes some of the pressure off.
SPEAKER_03Our members are at the heart of everything that we do and they turn food into friendship and neighbours into community, and that's what makes us tick.
SPEAKER_01And today it's Pam from Sunderland. Do you have a listen?
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00My name's Pam Cave. I'm nearly 88.
SPEAKER_03Wow. You don't look it.
SPEAKER_00Well everyone says that, but I don't know. What should you look like at 88?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I don't know, but physically you look stronger than somebody in the late 80s, I would say. I'm so active.
SPEAKER_00I've had a very active life. I had six children and always on the go. Even now. Lived on a farm. Did cows, milk cows, inseminated cows, had horses, my own goats, Angora goats.
SPEAKER_03Six kids, you were telling me you fostered as well.
SPEAKER_00Yes, um well of course the my children were grown up then. I think in uh 1985 I first approached the fostering agencies and that and uh got cracking the year after. Yeah, I really enjoyed that. Um I was in the cottage in Shadforth.
SPEAKER_03Where's Shadford?
SPEAKER_00Um just on the outskirts of Durham. It's a little village. That's where I moved to after Darlington. Big garden for them if there were little is that used to play in the garden.
SPEAKER_03Let's start with your six. What's the age differentials?
SPEAKER_00Now then. I had Paul when I was 21. Sixteen months later had his brother, two years later had Peter, and then had a rest.
SPEAKER_03A well-earned rest.
SPEAKER_00And I met my um second husband and I had um Sally and the twins, and that was a great finale. I think I'd had enough.
SPEAKER_03So I'm guessing you've got grandkids and they're all over the place. You've got great grandkids.
SPEAKER_0020 grandchildren and 14 grades.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, lovely. Remembering birthdays, it's difficult.
SPEAKER_03I'm surprised there isn't a wall planner up.
SPEAKER_00I've got measurements on the door as I've grown up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03My perception of fostering is that it's really hard work, but you just seem to smile every time you mention it.
SPEAKER_00I retired in 80 when I was 83.
SPEAKER_03Um You retired when you were 83.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I wish I hadn't.
SPEAKER_03I aspire to be as energetic as you at your age, Pam.
SPEAKER_00Oh, right, that's nice. But uh yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Discovering The Food Club
SPEAKER_03We've come together through bread and butter. So, how did you find bread and butter thing?
SPEAKER_00A friend put me in touch with it. And when I I went there, it was a real positive experience. The people were so nice, and the volunteers worked so hard. There seemed to be hundreds and hundreds of bags of food. And it was a revelation. I've never looked back to share what I don't want with my daughter or the friends, you know. But I make lots of my own soup. I've got a soup make, and I made apple crumbles and I put the strawberries in and bananas in because I had a load of those last time. I love the people and all of the community up there. And I we're in the queue and we're talking to each other.
SPEAKER_03Which one do you go to?
SPEAKER_00The Anfield Plain one. Yeah, lovely people, really nice. Hoogable.
SPEAKER_03It's a really nice way to describe them. That's kind of what we try and do as well. Make it very well.
SPEAKER_00I always send the volunteers a Christmas card. They're so good, and I think they work so hard. The foods is just a bonus. Sometimes I have cheapies like flash, bathroom flash, and cleaners like that. That's so good. One week I had all these daffodils five for a pound. Oh, I was over the moon.
SPEAKER_03It's really interesting that you said that. You know, the the food is a bonus.
SPEAKER_00I've had this house 25 years now. Yeah. I hardly know my neighbours.
SPEAKER_03Really?
SPEAKER_00And I've met more lovely people up there.
Community Beyond The Shopping Bags
SPEAKER_03I always say that the food's like the hook, it brings people in, and then they go, Oh, there's the community feel as well.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I've made more friends there, and I've also been going dancing a lot, and the people there are lovely, you know. And oh, and one dancer's finished at afternoon dances on a Friday afternoon. So nice. But the person taking it, him and his husband want to go touring around Italy and places like that. So I'm looking for somewhere else to go as that dancing.
SPEAKER_03So, what sort of dancing do you do?
SPEAKER_00Well, anything ballroom dancing. I put a load of medals dancing. I really enjoy it, it's been a big part of my life.
SPEAKER_03So, when did you start dancing then?
SPEAKER_00When I was about 48, I believe. I had private lessons. But it's something I wanted to do since I was in my late teens, when it's always been my ambition to dance. I used to dance with my kids in my arms as babies and sing to them around the kitchen.
SPEAKER_03Nice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was lovely.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so what is it about bread and butter then? When somebody introduced you to it, was it the access to affordable food or what?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, three bags full for£8.50. I mean, I go to Asta when I'm desperate or need the papers and things like that. You know, if you spend£8.50 in Asta, you'd get nothing. You probably get about three things or four things, you know. And there's always loads of veg. If you want more. Or bananas, you know. You go bananas over bananas. Oh yes, I so enjoy going on that.
SPEAKER_03Have you always been thrifty?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Life makes you like that when you haven't got a lot of money, and you know, but three boys were born a pittance, really. About£10 a month from a husband, you know, not very much.
SPEAKER_03First husband left you. He left you with two kids, three kids? Three. Three. How did you cope?
SPEAKER_00I'd never had to pay a bill. I had to start from the beginning and thinking for myself, and I think that toughened me up for the rest of my life. I didn't even know how much he sold the house. We've always had a house, fortunately. But I never knew he wouldn't discuss anything like that with me. I used to get saving stamps, I think of about five pounds. And I used to save those up to pay my bills, like electricity bills, things like that.
SPEAKER_03So, what's next for Pam then?
SPEAKER_00Oh, who knows?
SPEAKER_03I clearly need to find a new dance instructor.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yes. I've got my memories with the other dance anyway, because uh I asked him, I said, Do you think I could have a waltz, not sequins, but a proper waltz? You know, he says, Yeah, yeah. And he put this waltz on and had this dance. Because I said, I just want one waltz before I die. We had this lovely wall all to myself, the whole floor to myself, and this dude dancing around with me, you know, it's brilliant. And uh when I went back to sit with the ladies, they said, Well you can die now, Pam.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00But no, I can't, I shall die happily.
SPEAKER_03I have never met a feistier 88-year-old in my life. What a fantastic person, full of energy, so fun as well. And I'm sure if I'd ever invited her, she'd have started dancing there and then with me.
SPEAKER_01Well, you missed an opportunity there. I loved your double take when she said that she retired at 83.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. That was that was comical and just brilliant. Do you know? Honestly, when we arranged it, the background information I got to go and meet Pam was that she was 88. When she opened the door, I was gonna say is your mum in, sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01That's a proper compliment. That's great. But she's like so on message for bread and butter, though. Yeah. I say on message, and I kind of don't really mean that. I think she can just articulate us really well, which you know it's brill to hear.
SPEAKER_03Take the on message bit out of it because it sounds corporate y, doesn't it? And it's the truth that so many of the people that we talk to on this podcast and we meet every day as members just get it, know what it's all about, and it's what they wanted and what they were looking for, sort of thing. And we just built something and it works for them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think for me, Pam really brilliantly described what we see in our hubs all the time. And she described it better than we do, which is great. We need to get her on the podcast more. She can come and uh come and co-host.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, definitely. And she would.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But also, I think it's really interesting for her to kind of compare, you know, she doesn't often go to the shops, but if she does to get the papers and, you know, if she's thinking about£8.50, what's she getting in a basket for£8.50 nowadays? And recognising that the volume of food that people get for£8.50. So it's not just about what items it is, it's actually the volume. And if you're creative, and which many of our members are, you can make that go a really long way. Uh so it was nice to hear that supermarket comparison, I guess, in a different way.
Savings Stamps And Old School Loyalty
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I do see that, but she's clearly been thrifty all her life and and had to with the volume of kids going through that household. So I think there are decades of education and experience there, right, that she's learnt on.
SPEAKER_01Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean, what's a savings stamp?
SPEAKER_03Sometimes you ask me stuff that and I can I can tell that there's like a a bit of a generation gap between us because I remember saving stamps.
SPEAKER_01Feels like a ration book thing.
SPEAKER_03Well, kind of, yes and no. There were stamps that you would buy and you'd put them in a book, and it was almost like Christmas club-y type saving. So you could save up that way, you could buy a quid or a fiver, etc. Okay. And then you could buy stuff with them, which sounds daft because it's like Christmas Club. But it if you bought all of the same type of saving stamp, sometimes you get bonus with them as well. So if you if you bought enough co-op stamps, they give you an incentive to buy their saving stamps rather than anybody else's, for example.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Why did they stop?
SPEAKER_03Well, I guess because things like Christmas clubs came in more. 70s and 80s, they were big, weren't they? And then some of them went bust.
SPEAKER_01And I'm gonna do some research on this. Feels like we would have heard about it more from our members if it was Yeah, true. I'm gonna find out. That's my homework. Do it. I've set my own this week.
SPEAKER_03Do, do, do. I mean, the other ones, I guess, predate kind of loyalty cards like your club card and stuff, because there was things. Do you remember? Let's see, green shield stamps?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_03No. So you used to get those from petrol stations and things, and then if you had enough green shield stamps, there was like a catalogue which was thrilling that you could look through them with a certain number.
SPEAKER_01No, but I do remember SO tokens.
SPEAKER_03Tiger tokens, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you could get your glasses. We got like all of the glasses in our cupboard were from the SO.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so here we go. This is my acid test on Airbnbs and holiday cottages. I always go in the kitchen and open the glasses cupboard and get out the decanter, and I'll just say, right, tiger tokens.
SPEAKER_01If it's a decanter, you go to an Airbnb.
SPEAKER_03Sorry, not decanters, um, tumblers.
SPEAKER_01Right, okay. I was thinking wow.
SPEAKER_03It'd be nice to have a decanter, something with uh some scotch in it, maybe, but no, it's never happened to me a bit.
Dignity And Joy In Small Treats
SPEAKER_01Wow. We were going down a different track then. We were so back to Pam. She's a bit like me, really, that she doesn't know her neighbours very well. But what I loved is you don't know your neighbours, but you've lived with them for 25 years, or well, not with them next door to them. Yeah. But yeah, you come to bread and butter and you've found your community. That's priceless.
SPEAKER_03It is. They're huggable, I quote, which is lovely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But I think quite a lot of our members will relate to that more than you'd expect.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_01Because you're finding people that are like you that have got a common interest. It's not that you just live next door to them, it's like you've got things in common and you can chat. And the fact that our bags are like a surprise, it creates a conversation, and then before you know it, oh, you're chatting to so-and-so, and then you see them next week. So I really liked that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. And the way she talked about the joy and the dignity of it, you know, forget the food. It was like daffodils, you know. I I don't buy daffodils, and and suddenly I was getting daffodils, etc., and it just writing to them with a Christmas card, etc. It was touching.
Cooking Confidence And Finding Hobbies
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, quick question. Have you ever put banana in a crumble?
SPEAKER_03Okay, I don't do cook fruit. I just don't eat it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Fruit's not for cooking.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so the answer is no then.
SPEAKER_03The answer's no.
SPEAKER_01Have you heard of anyone putting banana in a crumble?
SPEAKER_03Well, I have now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That kind of blew my mind a little bit. I'm not a fan of a hot banana. I can do I'm not as weird as you, but a hot banana isn't a thing for me.
SPEAKER_03Can you just stop saying hot banana?
SPEAKER_01I don't know what's wrong with that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Uh cooking confidence, yeah, again, demonstrated, massive tick. They know what to do with food.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure that Pam's cooked quite a lot of meals in her life. So um, there's gonna be a lot of kitchen wisdom, isn't there?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So um there's still time for you, Vic, as well, because obviously Pam took up her hobby at 48.
SPEAKER_01Great, thanks. So what hobby have you got in mind?
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I mean my hobby is work.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say talking to the workaholic. I'm gonna have to find you a hobby.
SPEAKER_01Amazing. Great, thanks for this top tip.
SPEAKER_03Well, she won awards. It was lovely the way she talked about dancing around with the kids in her arms and stuff as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, in fact, she made me think when she was talking about that waltz and how she wanted to have the waltz and it was just her. And I was just like, you know, for lots of our members, it's the small things that mean the most.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's a good thing.
SPEAKER_03I think I we forget those small things at times, and the way she lights up when she talks about just going to the hub as well. Not the bags, just going there and having a bit of fun and brightening a day. Yeah. But genuinely, for me, she'd brighten anyone's day. She was a proper superstar.
SPEAKER_01If you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us at TMTVBT on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, or online at breadandbutterthing.org. I did those so out of order I confused.
SPEAKER_03And if you have any feedback or thoughts on the podcast or you'd like to come and have an at her or be a guest, drop us an email at podcast at breadandbutterthing.org.
SPEAKER_01We're always open to new members of all of our hubs, so if you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member page of the website.
SPEAKER_03And please do all those things that the podcast asks you to do. Like us, subscribe, leave us a review, and we'll share us with your friends and chat about us on social. And we'll see you see you next time. What she said.
