A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
What If The Problem Is Not Aspiration But The Pathway
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Diana joins us with her dog Gizmo in the background and tells the kind of story that sticks with you. what it’s like to live through a nervous breakdown, carry anxiety for years, and still keep turning up as a parent?
We talk about the fear and loss of control that comes with mental health trauma, how dyspraxia can make everyday life harder than people assume, and the quiet confidence it takes to say, “That was then, this is now”, while you’re still in the middle of recovery.
We also get practical about money and food. Diana explains the real maths of Universal Credit, rising bills, and the end-of-week fridge check, plus how a low-cost weekly shop through The Bread and Butter Thing helps her stretch the budget with fruit, veg, fridge food, frozen items, and cupboard staples.
We dig into dignity too and ask why members sometimes say they’ve been “given” food, why paying matters, and how community food support can feel like friendship as much as groceries. And yes, there is a surprisingly passionate debate about avocados.
From there we zoom out into the bigger questions... why people are judged for being on benefits, why so many want to work and regain routine, and why policy often confuses “low aspiration” with “no clear pathway”. We explore local heroes, careers guidance, apprenticeships versus university, and the unintended consequences that shape who takes which route. If you care about cost of living, food poverty, mental health, or social mobility, listen now, then subscribe, share with a mate, and leave us a review. What’s one clear pathway you wish you’d been shown earlier?
Welcome And What We Do
SPEAKER_00Hello and welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with me, Vic, and Mark. We're from the Bread and Butter Thing.
SPEAKER_01We run a network of mobile food clubs that take surplus food from supermarkets, farms, factories and pretty much anywhere else in the industry. And we take it straight into communities where families are struggling to get by.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for less than a tenner, our members get bags packed with fruit, veg, fridge food, some frozen and cupboard staples. It's a weekly shop that helps stretch the budget and take some of the pressure off.
SPEAKER_01Our members are at the heart of everything we do. They turn food into friendship and neighbours into community, and that's what makes us tick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and today it's Diana.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so Diana talks a little bit about suicide and mental health trauma, so just a bit of a warning before we have a listen.
Diana’s Breakdown And Early Struggles
SPEAKER_02I have a very energetic dog called Gizmo. Who we can hear in the background. He's very um yeah, he's very protective. At the moment, um trying to get my life back physically and mentally, and I've got anxiety and I've come a long way from the last 10 years from where I was. I had a nervous breakdown, personal relationship breakdown, all sorts of different things.
SPEAKER_01So do you do you mind if we go back then? So tell us what happened when it all went wrong.
SPEAKER_02Um ten years ago I met my son's dad, who's not obviously not, he's not here. Met him on a dating site, regrets, regrets now, but hey, had my son, his dad wasn't there for me when I was going through pregnancy, wasn't there for me when I was going through labour, had my mum and dad, which I'm grateful for, and they're getting on a bit now, but they've always been there for me. About two years later, I decided that I kind of wanted my son's dad in his life, so I decided to try and find him. He came and lived with me for two and a half years, uh, and then when my son was about four, noticed that he was drinking quite a lot more and found out I was an alcoholic. And then I ended up having a nervous breakdown one day, um walked out of the house, went to a lot, didn't do anything, but I came back, went to my neighbours, got my mum and dad to come over. So then then he left, so I got rid of him. Um then I had to have counselling, and then I was put on medication, which at the time probably was a good idea.
SPEAKER_01I didn't work for six years because I couldn't forgive my ignorance and you don't have to answer this, but can you explain what it feels like in a nervous breakdown?
SPEAKER_02You feel like you're not in control of yourself. You feel like you're not able to look after your child. That was back then. Yeah. Uh I had a lot of anxiety, so I I was worrying about anything. I was worrying whether his dad was gonna come back because when I was with his dad he used to say things, certain things that kind of stayed in my head.
Anxiety, Dyspraxia, And Finding Confidence
SPEAKER_02And I'm also dyspraxic as well. My brain is kind of different to other people's. Dyspraction is where your it's lack of coordination, so I can drop things, I can bump into tables. I'm really proud of myself because of what I've done, because I feel like I brought my son up, I've been through all that details. It's ten years later now, and I've come off my tablets. Brand button is it's kind of a lifesaver for me because I'm on universal credit, so it may seem a lot of money when you get it, but it's not when you pay your bills. Eventually, I'd like to get back to work, eventually I'd like to volunteer and give back because I used to volunteer years and years ago.
SPEAKER_01So, did you used to work?
SPEAKER_02I used to work in a retail for 12 years, and then I worked and I worked in an office before that. Two years ago, I did care work, but I had to give that up because of my anxiety. But eventually I want to I I really want to get back to work because I was so used to the routine, I was so used to and the person I was back then is not what I am now.
SPEAKER_01But you're obviously on a journey though, Diana, because let's face it, you sat here talking and we're recording, and this takes some confidence.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I'm at a stage where I want to move forward and I do, um, I'm starting to move forward. And you sound confident. I'm exercising more. Eventually, I would like to get maybe um there's Warrington Disability Partnership, which is in Warrington that I'm kind of looking at going to because they might be able to help me with my disabilities and doing volunteering so I can start the process.
SPEAKER_01And Gizmo's telling his own story in the background all the way through this.
How The Food Club Helps Weekly
SPEAKER_01Um so tell me about bread and butter then, because obviously you get food, I get that, and it's uh access to affordable and nutritious food and all that lovely stuff.
SPEAKER_02Right, yes. I go every Friday, it's on the like heart front at half past one. I'm just so grateful when I go there, you just feel like overwhelmed by what you're given. You don't expect that you're given given all that food.
SPEAKER_01And I feel like the price Well you say given, uh you buy it.
SPEAKER_02You buy it, but you say at the same time you you're buying it, but you're also giving it as well. But I I just feel like it's just waste. So many people got wasting food. So many people was wasting food nowadays, and the variety that you get they give you is amazing, you know. I got loads of bananas last last week and I ended up making some banana bread, so I feel like I'm making something out of the actual food.
SPEAKER_01Great. You talked about universal credit, it's just you and your lad.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01And gizmo, obviously. Yes. How much do you think you spend on a weekly basis on food?
SPEAKER_02Um it's now it's probably about 80 pounds, probably.
SPEAKER_0180 quid a week on food, and that's for all two, three of you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I go to the bread and butter and I go somewhere else as well because there's certain things I need.
SPEAKER_01Right, so you're a savvy shopper.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I go I got I get my meat from somewhere else, the cheapest place and go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and what is that?
SPEAKER_02Liddle. Lidl's close by for me. So what I tend to do is I go to the bread and butter thing. Yeah. And then after that, I go to Liddle.
Budgeting, Debt, And A Dark Moment
SPEAKER_02But years ago I had problems with debt. Right. Thank God for my dad, he helped me out. Yeah. He cleared my debts. Oh, it's been since last year now that I'm like, now I I only whatever I have, I have. It's a struggle. It's a real struggle. And we get to like s near the end of the week and it's like, oh god, what have we got left in the fridge?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What can we use in the fridge?
SPEAKER_01So what happened with the debt?
SPEAKER_02When I was with his dad, we got elect I had an electric debt.
SPEAKER_01Did you ever get any child support or anything?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I do. I do get child support, which I'm grateful to him for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but he doesn't have a choice, right?
SPEAKER_02No. But no, uh, I get child support. But back then it was like, yeah, I was in debts with like catalogues. All the things that you know you you you do and you see, and maybe I had a bit of an addictive personality, you know, like a personality where you're addicted, can a lot of people do.
SPEAKER_01Do you remember me asking how much?
SPEAKER_02I was in two thousand pounds. Now, compared to some people I've known that I know they're in tens of thousands. And but to me that was in the power. About two years ago, I was still in the debt then.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And I nearly took myself then. But that was because of the debt. I got so bad with me, and I was in the car with my dad. We were going for a meal somewhere. I was not gonna, I think it's just a cry for help because I was and my dad was like, what's wrong? There's something wrong, tell me what's wrong. And uh my dad was wasn't pleased, but he said to me, Right, we'll sort it out. So he sorted it out, he paid it off. And now I'm in such a better place, better place, thought of getting into debt because I've been through so much with that, the debts and then the other things. It makes you think about your life, plus I'm 50, so and then you're 50. And I feel like I feel like I'm it's a circ it's like a circle, you know what I mean? You you yeah, you ha half a century now, and you're thinking, what do we want for the next half of my life? What do I want the next 30 years or whatever?
SPEAKER_01So,
Parenting, Pride, And Future Plans
SPEAKER_01how old's your lad now?
SPEAKER_0213. I would like him to get an apprenticeship. Ideally, I wouldn't really want him to go in to go to university. I went and uh I went for like the social side to meet people and never came back. I came out with a degree, but I didn't actually do anything with it.
SPEAKER_01What was your degree?
SPEAKER_02History, and I just went and worked at Asda. So it's not just a work, it's not just working at Asda. But at the time it was like, I don't think I had the confidence to maybe do anything else. For Leo, I want him to get an apprenticeship, um, maybe get me a granny flat, I'll live next door. He said to oh no, I'll put you in a Kenya home.
SPEAKER_01Nice.
SPEAKER_02Um but I'm so proud of him as well because he's he's grown up into a really adjusted young man. He's gonna be a handful because he's a teenager, but you know that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we're gonna take you back to
Avocados, Food Waste, And Choice
SPEAKER_01bread and butter. Yeah. What's the weirdest thing you've had in one of our bags?
SPEAKER_02Avocado.
SPEAKER_01Avocado. Why is that weird?
SPEAKER_02I just don't like avocado. I don't like the slushiness of an avocado. And the hands of it. It's a texture thing. It's a texture, I don't like that.
SPEAKER_01I have a friend that's uh got a lovely diagram of the seven stages of avocado. It's not ripe, it's not ripe, it's not ripe, it's not ripe, it's not ripe, it's not ripe, it's gone off.
SPEAKER_02See, that's what I mean. I find that it's just um what puts me off it is the time it takes for me to remember. I think it's a dyspeptio thing, when I can eat it. Yeah. So when is it ripe enough?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Tricky things.
SPEAKER_00Can we start with avocados? I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_01Is that on the list of have I brutalized another vegetable and fruit? Yeah, I have, I think.
SPEAKER_00As a vegetarian, this is shocking behaviour.
SPEAKER_01I do like a bit of guac.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean that t-shirt did make me laugh. But then in comparison, I was chatting to some people in a hub in Old League, and they were saying that their adult kids had had avocados for the first time, and it was on their bucket list to try an avocado, and we made it happen. So, you know, they work for some people, Diana.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they do, they do, uh, and I'm sure they're more versatile, but there's something about the fragility of them, and there's something about the texture of avocados. Uh, and I'm gonna say something quite provocative, I feel, because I don't think there's much taste to an avocado. I think they're overrated.
SPEAKER_00Wow, wow.
SPEAKER_01And it's really interesting, isn't it? Because every time I talk to the kids and do food waste assemblies and stuff, they're I I talk to them all about picky eaters, but the more I go on here, the more I sound like a picky eater, right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00You're not coming around my house for tea, no cagettes, no avocados.
SPEAKER_01I do eat them. I do eat them. Uh it's like, is it a preferred dish? And that's why I've said I like I like a bit of guac because I I do love Mexican food.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, I'm glad we've got this sorted.
Dignity In Paying For Food
SPEAKER_00So I thought the other thing that was interesting about Diana was when she said I've been given bread and butter food. Yeah. And it's really funny, isn't it, when you listen to members, you hear odd turns of phrase that just don't quite sit with how we see it. And you did do the, you know, a gentle yellow card to say, but you've bought that, and that's hugely important because it is a canny shop.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But then she went, Yeah, I bought it, but you give it me.
SPEAKER_00I think it was just a turn of phrase, wasn't it? Like we hand over the food type thing. It's not a donation, is it? It's not food for free. Um, and that's important because lots of people don't want that donation, they want to be providing for the family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they can still do that when they shop at bread
Volunteering As A First Step
SPEAKER_00and butter.
SPEAKER_01I think one of the biggest things for me with Diana was definitely that ambition to get back to routine and work is going to give me routine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, she did make me giggle with a history degree going to work for Asda.
SPEAKER_00Oh, she made herself giggle with that though. That was very funny.
SPEAKER_01But it it it it's that rhythm and wanting to work, and I I think this is the stuff that so many times gets overlooked. People just look at an individual like Dana and say they're on universal credit, they've had a rough time with their mental health and all the rest of it. And so many times it's overlooked that they want to get back to work, they want rhythm, they want to stand on their own two feet. And I think it's such a shame that there are so many people in our membership that are like that that just people cast aspersions at instead because we're on benefits.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was kind of listening to Diana going, come and volunteer with us, come and volunteer with us. You can have a right laugh with our volunteers, it's like a really good starting point. So I was kind of like willing to make the first step. And we've seen loads of our volunteers that have been in a similar situation to Diana.
SPEAKER_01We we've we've had them on the pod, right? So we we've had them on the pod where they've got anxiety, they're barely leaving the house.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it's always that little bit of, well, you're here early, and we could do with a hand, rather than because the commitment to volunteer sometimes I think feels if you're not like Diana's clearly growing her confidence and is dead proud of where she's kind of come from, which is was you know really beautiful to hear. But then to then go, right, I'm now gonna volunteer, I'm gonna do it every week. Sometimes the thought of it feels more of a commitment than you prepared to give, but you're probably able to do it every week, and you can just do it by stealth, and I think that's where volunteering with us is really good.
SPEAKER_01That's always like the special thing about our members at times, right? They just so casually tell you about trauma, they just hit rock bottom and say, That was then, this is now, and I'm moving in a different direction. It just touches you because you just think, Bloody hell, you've been through so much, and yet you hear you know, and you're g giggling about your lad saying he's gonna put you in a home.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you were a little bit like, oh yeah, no, I agree with that, and I think Diana's done an amazing job and is really so open and honest about how the times have got tricky and hitting rock bottom, but then also I've genuinely loved how proud she is and should be about where she is now and actually looking towards the future and not thinking about the past.
Aspiration, Pathways, And Local Heroes
SPEAKER_01There's almost something as a policy question there, isn't there, to say how do we actually address people like Diana that have got aspirations that are slowly on the way to recovery? And again, we've had so many of people like that on the pod already, but I just don't feel somehow policy fits them.
SPEAKER_00I can nerd out on this.
SPEAKER_01Go for it with your working skills background, go for it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we did a lot of work about aspiration and expectation, and there's a belief that people don't have aspirations, especially when they're kids, that they don't aspire to be the rocket scientist or any of this kind of stuff. And it's not that they don't aspire to it, it's that life knocks that out of them. So they stop believing it because they know that they're never gonna deliver it because they don't know what the route is to get there. So the route feels too complicated. That dream of being a rocket scientist, I'm just gonna let myself down if I don't because I don't know how to do it.
SPEAKER_01Almost like a fear of failure.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely. So then policy says, Oh, these people don't have aspirations. We need to make kids aspire to be this. It's like, no, they aspire to that. You need really clear pathways, really clear clear route ways that you can make it really obvious. So that to become a rocket scientist, you need to do this, do that, do the other, and it's three steps that they could do, and they probably need to know someone from their community or that they associate with that's done that to prove that it's possible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think policy looks like So local heroes are important, sort of absolutely, but you think about that.
SPEAKER_00I'm thinking, well, all of our members are local heroes, right? Absolutely, um, but in a different way, so it's that finding someone that's done it. So we've had members get together and someone's saying, Well, I was in your shoes and I've done X, Y, and Z, and it gives the next person the confidence or the feeling like they can do it, and you need a little bit of I can achieve this to start that first baby step, don't you? Yeah, and so that's the thing that policy talks about people not aspiring, like they didn't people don't have dreams, people don't want to do it. It's not that, it's just that life's too complicated and they turn it off and they turn it down because they don't know how to get there.
SPEAKER_01My head was screaming all the way through you saying that, Vic, about schooling, and is that something that you ever see in schooling? Because it's not something I'm acutely aware of in schooling.
SPEAKER_00So, again, Nerdville, there's a thing called careers information advice and guidance, which is mandatory for 14 to 19 in school. Quite often it's outsourced to a local careers organisation. Is it really effective? Is it really mainstream through stuff? Probably not, but everyone should get like a one-to-one appointment around GCSE time. It's probably about 15 minutes.
SPEAKER_01I kind of hope it's better than it was in my day.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what it was like in your day. That was a long time ago.
SPEAKER_01So it was, it was, and I I I I was a bit upset when Diana was saying, you know, I'm nearly 50 now, and I'll there's nothing wrong with 50.
SPEAKER_00Is 50 the new 30?
SPEAKER_0150 is definitely the new 30.
SPEAKER_00There you go.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Let me tell you the uh aspirational funny story from my childhood then. So I didn't go to the best of schools, and uh in my secondary comp in Preston, the uh mayor of Preston was doing the rounds, and we were in double maths with the headmaster who was fierce, and everybody was trying to be on the best behaviour.
SPEAKER_00And I was sat next to Chris Atkinson and Chris Sorry Chris if you didn't want to be name checked, it just happened.
SPEAKER_01Chris won't be listening to this. Chris was the funniest guy I knew, and so deadpan. And the mer came over to him and said, Um in that aspirational fashion, said, and what would you like to do when you grow up? And Chris just said, Well, I've been thinking about this and I think I want to be a window cleaner. He said, Well, why do you want to be a window cleaner? He said, Well, my dad's got a ladder, and that that was it.
SPEAKER_00That's that's the best illustration of the point. Yeah. If you don't know how you can get there, you can't let yourself believe you can.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There we go. We've solved aspiration and expectation.
SPEAKER_01Local heroes and pathways, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I guess
Apprenticeships, University, And Unintended Consequences
SPEAKER_01the final point on Diana's as well is apprenticeship. It's a really topical relevant thing. And you know my feelings on everybody in university. Thank you, Blair and Brown. I don't think there are degrees out there that are worth the effort because they don't actually do the right things for people that are practical and learn practical things. So there's so many people that are shoved into a university environment rather than an apprenticeship environment that just don't fit and come out confused more than anything. I think there's a significant lack of apprenticeships, and I don't know where they've gone or why we got rid of them, because both of those should be fixed. Apprenticeships should be a really good practical pathway for so many people.
SPEAKER_00I think there's probably quite a lot of apprenticeships, but you've just not looked for them yet. I think that they're different now. I think that they used to be more of a you were the apprentice and it was the title and they were all real trades, but you can do them in lots of different things now.
SPEAKER_01I think we have deconstructed what an apprenticeship should be.
SPEAKER_00Wow, this is this is going deep. I mean I mean they've also brought out different qualifications so you can do and they call V-levels, like vocational levels, it's like got a hundred hours a year of work in there. So there's lots of different things, and I think sometimes it makes it quite complicated back to the easy pathways. Yeah. But then another slight tangent is I did a piece of work on apprenticeships a long time ago. We were looking at legal apprenticeships, which is a thing, and there was a guy from Huddersfield called Bradley that did a legal apprenticeship and was so chuffed because he'd say he worked out how much he'd earned and what he'd saved himself, and he was absolutely quids in. And they brought in legal apprenticeships to try and make it a better route way to kind of break the class ceiling to think that that would be more affordable than going to uni. But actually, all of the people that wanted to do law that came from low-income backgrounds and didn't necessarily have the parental black book of connections all thought the degree route way was the only proven route way and couldn't take the risk with the apprenticeships. So you'd got the I don't know, let's go, middle class people doing the apprenticeship because they've got mum and dad and people to help them make the decision and they've got these connections. The psychology around it just didn't work.
SPEAKER_01It's the unintended consequences, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
Where To Find Us And Final Ask
SPEAKER_00So if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us at TeamTBBT on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, or online at breadandbutterthing.org.
SPEAKER_01And if you have any feedback or thoughts on the podcast or you want to come and have an atta with us or be a guest, drop us an email at podcast at breadandbutterthing.org.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and we're always open to new members at all of our hubs. So if you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme or wants to take a first step into volunteering, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member page of the website.
SPEAKER_01And lastly, do all those things please that podcast asks you to do. Like us, subscribe to us, leave us a review, chat about us with your mates, and share us on social. See you next time.
SPEAKER_02See ya.
