On the Bleeding Edge: AR, EdTech and Social Responsibility with Rustica Lamb

Rustica Lamb is the founder of Bloom Learning Technologies, an international award-winning learning technologies company that is bringing the cost of elearning way, way down.

In this episode, we chat about an amazing AR project Rustica is creating, the EdTech landscape of 2022 and the social responsibility that belongs to all of us in L&D.

You can find more from Rustica at the below links:
LinkedIn
Bloom Learning Technologies

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Support the podcast, videos and events
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe on YouTube. It's quick and free!
Join us on Discord
Become one of our awesome Patrons
Buy me a Beer
Get some ID swag at the IDT store

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

iSpring: Start creating eLearning today!
Design courses like a pro. Create interactive online courses and assessments.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

00:00:00:07 - 00:00:29:28
Tom
This is the Ideas podcast, the show where L and D professionals discuss ideas over a nice cup of tea warning other beverages may be consumed. In this episode, I chat with Rusty Calum about an amazing art project. She's currently working on the social responsibility of learning in development professionals and the bleeding edge of EdTech in 2022. Hi. Hello and welcome to another episode of The Ideas podcast.

00:00:29:29 - 00:00:47:01
Tom
Thank you for joining us. With me today is Rusty. Christina, thank you so much for joining on on our second attempt because I messed up the tech on our first time having tried to have this conversation today. So welcome. So thank you for coming back for round two.

00:00:47:24 - 00:00:53:21
Rustica
Well, you didn't actually see that. We had a really great chat and I think it's like most of the quarter of the podcast, the first one.

00:00:55:12 - 00:01:18:02
Tom
Yeah, absolutely. So. So whilst we don't rehearse and write scripts for the Ideas podcast, this is about as close as you're ever going to get to that really. So thank you so much for agreeing to come and talk to us as always. This we kind of masquerade as a learning and development and edtech themed podcast. In reality, people just tune in to see what people are drinking.

00:01:18:28 - 00:01:21:09
Tom
So word of warning. What are you drinking?

00:01:22:05 - 00:01:22:23
Rustica
Coffee.

00:01:23:00 - 00:01:24:27
Tom
Coffee? That particular title.

00:01:26:01 - 00:01:42:20
Rustica
So in that we would have been saying about 18 months ago and I also was pooing my husband saying that it's it's a waste of time, honestly, because we were drinking a coffee a day each from out. It's the best coffee, actually, of most coffee shops. So we're really happy with it.

00:01:43:13 - 00:02:02:05
Tom
Now I'm very much on on that. So things have isn't since when I start working at home. The first big company expense was a proper coffee machine. Well, the trouble is for me, about 5 minutes down the road, I've got a coffee shop. So now I'm at home all the time. Is that Rachel? If I've got 5 minutes, I could just.

00:02:02:13 - 00:02:20:12
Tom
I could just nip out and get a coffee and I can get expensive quick. So it's not spread out some variety as well. Well, I've got the same way. I've got exactly the same way. I've got a nice black coffee but from that, from a new coffee on tranquil dragon's nests, many worlds taverns. And it's very nice.

00:02:21:13 - 00:02:22:05
Rustica
Little it's.

00:02:22:05 - 00:02:40:01
Tom
A little bit of a lighter roast than I'm used to, which is interesting, which meant I spent like far too much time over the weekend boiling in the grind, which was I found it very fun and interesting. I'm not convinced my wife was as impressed when I used like half a bag of coffee to figure out what the setting needed to be.

00:02:41:09 - 00:02:44:28
Tom
So that's fine, though. That's fine. You're right.

00:02:44:28 - 00:02:46:03
Rustica
I see this.

00:02:46:03 - 00:03:06:10
Rustica
So on that, just before we go, I haven't been to America a few times. I could never find decent coffee, but I went to Atlanta a few times and I found the best coffee dancing coach in Atlanta. So if you're into a coffee dancing coach and I bought a cup, it's been my favorite cup for about four years and we just took a photo of it.

00:03:06:18 - 00:03:14:13
Rustica
We went up the mountain, up to the snow line on the way, came with my dancing goat cups I seen in the photo. So like nice coffee doesn't go. It's a good one too.

00:03:14:26 - 00:03:31:15
Tom
Awesome. Oh, we shall we shall pop a link in the description in the episode. There we go and go get yourself some good coffee, which I think is predominantly what the Lindy industry runs on anyway. It's extremely high levels of caffeine and then certainly in my business at the weekend very large quantities.

00:03:31:15 - 00:03:34:28
Rustica
One anyway.

00:03:36:04 - 00:04:03:04
Tom
Let's move on rapidly from that admission. So I'm really interested about some of the stuff we're going to we're going to talk about today, partially because I've been very vocal in my hearing. I'm not sure about this whole AR VR thing, and that's a big thing we're going to discuss. And but before we get into that properly, because I'm terrible at doing introductions, please do tell us a little bit about yourself.

00:04:03:04 - 00:04:23:00
Rustica
Like yourself. Okay. Well, as you can probably tell from my accent, I'm from New Zealand, which has been actually a quite good because the number of speakers we've had from overseas come down here just because it's a beautiful place. It's been phenomenal. So we've had Charles Jennings, Nigel Payne, we've had, you know, some of the suppliers. We represent come down as well.

00:04:23:00 - 00:04:49:13
Rustica
So it's just been great. So from New Zealand, part of that also in Bali for three years with our daughter at the Bali Green School really misses and hope she finishes school. At the end of next year we'll spend sort of 3 to 4 six months in Bali and the respect here. So that's our plan. I set up Bloom Learning Technologies ten years ago, so that was a bit of a milestone like like all business that can be, you know, have its great times, ups and downs.

00:04:50:04 - 00:05:17:15
Rustica
But essentially we're a learning technologies business and half our business is in the tech side. So and I'm personally interested in emerging tech and how that can happen and indeed, people can use emerging tech for great design and great learning experiences basically in other emerging tech Cairns. So I can't think of well drones I'm sure if you're in maybe manufacturing or you know, dairy or you know, aquaculture possibly that would be a great learning tool.

00:05:17:26 - 00:05:39:13
Rustica
So I'm always looking for ways to use that in tech and for our clients and the emerging field is the focus we're going to talk about. And then the other when 2020 came, a lot of of course digital transformation happened and probably like around the world, a lot of people got sucked up into these massive projects. So that actually created a shortage of R&D talent around.

00:05:39:13 - 00:05:56:11
Rustica
So, you know, obviously talent was short, but R&D talent in particular. So we set up learning as a service and learning as a service is a basically an outsource team of every expert you can think of for what you need, which scales up and down so it becomes less of your outsourced M&A team. So that's the other half of our business.

00:05:56:11 - 00:05:57:17
Rustica
So yeah, that's what we do.

00:05:58:16 - 00:06:24:05
Tom
Also not sounds really interesting. So I think we're going to got a lot of a lot of the tech sides talk about that. Before we dove into that, I'm really interested about the the outsourcing M&A thing because I think that's it's a really interesting I think a lot of organizations would never have considered not long ago. I think organizations and certainly I've seen organizations that would have said, oh, we just don't need M&A.

00:06:24:05 - 00:06:53:16
Tom
It's not a priority whilst we're and scaling down the business or protecting money or whatever it might be, or they build these massive, unwieldy departments of totally necessary groups of people. So what kind of clients specifically are you seeing in that kind of willing to outsource them rather than the you're interested in outsourcing? Or is it just like a complete mix and there's no kind of specific type of organization?

00:06:54:06 - 00:07:16:26
Rustica
It's it's a bit of a mix, to be honest. It really comes down to the mindset of the people. And generally the organization will believe in learning as a, as an enabler for business, but they won't necessarily have the head count that might be on a headcount freeze that you may be sort of a medium size 500, that they just can't afford to have an extra person.

00:07:16:29 - 00:07:40:28
Rustica
But then, of course, with the projects come along like they put in new technology or new whatever they might be doing, they actually need someone. And it's that whole in fact, we're having a conversation with our marketing, doing a rebrand and refresh at the moment, and it's like, Well, what actually is this? Learning is a service. And it's like, well, you could get one contractor to come and do a short term project, but that person's going to be a unicorn, basically.

00:07:40:28 - 00:08:01:19
Rustica
So we've just we're to have some unicorns on our site because you need someone who's senior enough to have, you know, robust business conversations with stakeholders, to do analysis, to be able to do good learning design, to actually know the tools and actually be able to use all the tools, animations, you know, authoring tools, video editing, just an evaluation.

00:08:01:19 - 00:08:23:29
Rustica
And it and it does a person even have all that time for a start. So it's it's you look for a unicorn and then therefore that denotes that the, the quality is not as high because they just haven't got the time or the skills. So yeah, it's interesting. We've had clients, you know, with us for two or three years and we've had two now with four long term they've now gone, Oh, we can actually do that ourselves.

00:08:24:07 - 00:08:41:06
Rustica
So we just from a product point of view or service point of view will lose the business, which is, you know, should be our goal is to make them self-sufficient and us not go. But it'll be interesting if they come back because the we've seen a sort of expectation of quality from a large team that also projects project manager that I can manage the team.

00:08:41:22 - 00:09:08:23
Rustica
So yeah so it is interesting. I saw a post on LinkedIn with from a Kiwi guy actually saying he just can't believe that organizations don't allow this flexible in and out and it's I think there's a movement of the people so there might be an uprising with it. We've had a lot of people come to us and say people in full time jobs, they say, I just got to the point where I'm thinking to someone with an article that they've written, they wanted they wanted a side hustle.

00:09:09:17 - 00:09:28:06
Rustica
So you've got full time people wanting a side hustle, someone while these people want a side hustle. And that's quite a particular word, right? That's quite a miracle. And I use it in New Zealand, so. Yeah, yeah. So I think this whole remote hybrid flexible, you know, if people are a bit more so almost it works grown up life you know what I mean.

00:09:28:29 - 00:09:52:19
Tom
Yeah I think it's such an interesting space because it's, it's a my business evolve offers that on a relatively small scale for a couple customers it's a really I found it to be a really interesting experience having worked on kind of in-house R&D teams where you're exactly right, you are expected to have this ridiculous skillset, which means you.

00:09:52:19 - 00:09:55:15
Rustica
Should never lend it.

00:09:55:24 - 00:09:56:27
Rustica
To you because you want what.

00:09:57:15 - 00:09:58:02
Rustica
They sit there.

00:09:58:02 - 00:10:21:02
Tom
Oh, you know, animation is like, I certainly have access to an animation tool. Let's go. They're not actually the same thing. You know, this I found it quite interesting. I think it's really say about setting that quality of standard because I think you are actually going from an outsourcing layer where you say it's project manage, you have a team of experts.

00:10:21:02 - 00:10:37:19
Tom
So it's not just an instructional designer playing being an animator and a voice actor and no, no, you've got a voice actor and you've got an animator. And that is a big skills difference in each of those jobs through someone trying to do everything.

00:10:37:19 - 00:10:42:25
Rustica
Absolutely. Absolutely. And the thing is for the same price. So why would you not?

00:10:43:09 - 00:11:07:01
Tom
Yes, I think it is very expensive to scale in-house to achieve that same that same thing. But but I like what you said about the goal being effectively to empower them to do that in the long term. So I have spoken about this form, this on this show. I feel like as vendors and as suppliers, part of our role should be not making our clients dependent on us.

00:11:07:01 - 00:11:23:05
Tom
I always feel like in the past some maybe have taken that approach and I feel like it is a bit of a sort of manipulation is the right word. But to make a business have to come back to you in future kind of indicates that you don't think they'll want to come back to you, which is worrying it a bit itself.

00:11:23:05 - 00:11:23:14
Tom
Right.

00:11:24:05 - 00:11:31:19
Rustica
Don't get me started like we have one quite major supplier. Like it's the supplier won't give them that won't give clients a source false.

00:11:31:26 - 00:11:32:05
Rustica
Yeah.

00:11:32:09 - 00:11:33:21
Tom
See that's just Yeah.

00:11:34:12 - 00:11:35:21
Rustica
That's like 20, 22.

00:11:35:21 - 00:11:37:00
Rustica
Right.

00:11:37:00 - 00:11:44:23
Tom
Yeah. That's, I mean that's there's a lot of things in the learning space where you want to scream, it's 20, 22, come on, first set. But that really is I mean.

00:11:44:23 - 00:11:45:22
Rustica
That rule.

00:11:45:22 - 00:12:05:14
Tom
You know, at that point, you could always go and come on, it's the 1990s having the source files over. They don't belong to you. You know, your service provider, not an owner of the content, but hey, let's not go down that track. I suppose we'd be there all day. But but it's really interesting. I think it's it's a really it's really interesting space.

00:12:05:14 - 00:12:25:10
Tom
I agree. Didn't exist not that long ago really. I'm certainly not on the scale it is now. So great to hear that. But learning tech and specifically the cutting edge stuff. So this is where so I quite often get comments that I'm anti tech and I'm really not I love technology. Oh I'm judging.

00:12:25:10 - 00:12:25:25
Rustica
You every.

00:12:26:22 - 00:12:26:29
Rustica
Month.

00:12:27:15 - 00:12:50:07
Tom
Well, yeah, this is it. I'm just always very hesitant with clients to go, Yeah, let's use the new shiny thing when I can't see, you know, a real need or a benefit of using it. And when we were chatting before, initially, I kind of said, you know, this is what makes me nervous, a little bit nervous around kind of the VR, VR space.

00:12:50:13 - 00:13:06:24
Tom
R Less so VR. I mean, very kind of I'm really not certain. But you've been working on obviously all the tech but a really interesting specifically are projects that you were telling me about. Could you tell us a little bit about that project kicks off?

00:13:07:24 - 00:13:31:03
Rustica
Hmm, absolutely. So I went to a tick tick conference last year in New Zealand and was quite blown away about the lack of technology that people were the speakers were talking about and fact. Yeah, it was, it was asked went, oh my goodness. And I, because I just finished my master's of future technologies, I knew, you know, all the, you know, what was out there in the world and the research we had to do around that.

00:13:31:03 - 00:13:51:15
Rustica
So I thought to myself, I need a story worth telling and I'm going on the speaking circuit next year. So and so that was sort of one part of it. So I knew the story was telling and it always wanted to do a tech project that that could actually be relevant back to corporates. But I didn't want to train myself or try that on a client and have my own.

00:13:51:15 - 00:14:14:09
Rustica
Might not work so I've have also had a very big internal drive to make a difference and I never really always got stuck with, you know, doing corporate work or consulting, etc.. So in a, in a strong interest in refugee and the refugee crisis and what's been happening. So I've read a lot of books and still don't watch movies and stuff.

00:14:14:09 - 00:14:38:27
Rustica
I'm reading one amazing moment about a people smuggler. So I thought, well, you know, the refugee camps are barren. And one of the the camps I read about when I was studying was a camp called Camp as a tier just outside of Jordan. Now, that was the refuge Syrian refugees had the going on there in 2015, and they had 70,000 people.

00:14:38:27 - 00:15:04:00
Rustica
There's now 100,000 people. And what bothers me, like just the other day, I was looking for some reason more research on that camp than to saying this is not a camp, that's their home. And there's now 100,000 there. And we've now got second generation being born and growing up there. And if you look at refugee camps, I just rows and rows and rows of camps and but if you look on Google Maps, they've got like a supermarket and they've got they've got all all the infrastructures there.

00:15:04:00 - 00:15:26:17
Rustica
They've got a gym, they've got a markets. It's so interesting. So it's become many homes that was I think surrounds the camp leave and I thought you know in 2015 there was around 60 million refugees. Now there's over 80. So in a short six or seven years, we've we've gone another 20 million forcibly displaced people with the to me, it's just a humanity like it's just a it's just a tragedy.

00:15:26:17 - 00:15:45:06
Rustica
I don't know. I do something and may drives now I do have a joke that I have come from and when I was doing my ancestry research personally we have come I've come from gypsies, so and the gypsies that got forced out of India, they actually went across Syria, Iraq, Iran and to the top of France and Sweden and England.

00:15:45:27 - 00:16:07:06
Rustica
So whether it's genetic imprint and memory, I don't know. But over half these took to the point that over half these children don't have education, they're not getting educated. So and I just think in such a barren environment, why not create something that can bring them some happiness and joy and and ultimately some hope? So. But it's thinking, what can I do?

00:16:07:06 - 00:16:25:22
Rustica
And tech? And then I thought, well, Pokemon Go is a pretty cool, you know, fun thing to do. You run around, get some active finding stuff, treasure hunt. And I thought actually we could teach them English and it using a type of mongo style mobile game. So then I went onto Kindle and I looked at some books and I thought, how do you I mean, I don't know.

00:16:25:22 - 00:16:48:27
Rustica
I'm a corporate, you know, facilitator, teacher, trainer, designer. How do you teach children to read? And the status of books is the 20 states. And it's really step by step. So I chose one book and it was for parents teaching the children English and it was really prescriptive. Do this then. They're so prescriptive, like just so it can easily go into a sequence for a game.

00:16:48:27 - 00:17:09:27
Rustica
So, so yeah. So that's sort of basically what I did. And then I started looking for developers and looking online and that that's of built a team, an emerging team around that. So yeah. And so that's sort of the idea. And then to raise awareness of it, I'll be walking from Auckland to Wellington, which is a 700 to 700 meter walk in April.

00:17:10:15 - 00:17:27:28
Rustica
So to raise awareness, but also to collect refurbish of all smartphones so we can give those away as well. And the reason for that is when you see these people walking and if you've watched enough movies, you'll start to see now they've run, they've had 2 hours. They may or may not have the papers or the passports. They've got trolley bags.

00:17:27:28 - 00:17:48:07
Rustica
I've got one pair of shoes I've been walking for 60 days carrying the two year old. So it's the least I can do is to walk 20 kilometers and sleep in a, you know, a caravan each night and and do some presentations along the way to raise awareness. So. So, yeah, that's the long story behind going to an exotic conference.

00:17:48:07 - 00:17:49:11
Rustica
No, I think it's.

00:17:49:11 - 00:17:50:13
Tom
Fascinating because.

00:17:51:01 - 00:17:51:24
Rustica
It's.

00:17:51:25 - 00:18:07:05
Tom
Interesting common on conferences just to go right back to the start of the thing that you've got your tech conference and you're leaving it thinking, huh, they're not talking about very modern tech, which I think is an interesting industry discussion point.

00:18:08:07 - 00:18:19:14
Rustica
Well, we're talking a lot about culture in hybrid working and I thought, well, that's not really technology. Yes, technology enables it, but where's where's the interesting take up that might be one or two speakers speaking on it.

00:18:19:14 - 00:18:38:25
Tom
So yeah, I, I kind of have the same experience that when you go to this thing, there's a lot of talk, as you say, around culture and hybrid working and communication and all these things. And they'll go, Oh, and the technology is what is going to support us. And this is like, Great, can we have that conversation? Because that's the bit we didn't know about when we signed up.

00:18:39:18 - 00:18:46:01
Tom
I knew that it was really important. I was kind of hoping you would go to that bit around and here's how to do it.

00:18:47:05 - 00:18:47:16
Rustica
Yeah.

00:18:48:03 - 00:18:49:21
Tom
So I think that's really interesting.

00:18:50:15 - 00:19:07:15
Rustica
I think Hulu does it really well. So Nikki Hoyland from Hoola, she talks a lot about hybrid and culture and that Hola is an amazing tool. So, you know, I think that that sort of, you know, speakers that the sort of speakers we want to hear from, you know, how does this actually relate to this whole culture hybrid that what's the tech.

00:19:08:03 - 00:19:08:26
Rustica
Mhm. Yeah.

00:19:09:09 - 00:19:25:29
Tom
It's interesting. That's exactly why I started doing stuff like this is to get people who are actually doing things together, come and talk about what you've done or what you're doing and specifically how as opposed to just a high level kind of, oh yeah, we did this and the culture is amazing now. So yeah, it's that, it's that next level.

00:19:25:29 - 00:19:49:01
Tom
It's the people that do that. I think it's so interesting to hear from. I think the flip side of that is finding that very human threads that I think is sometimes it's it's weirdly forgotten in the heat and the space. It's very easy to just go, oh, the learners, the users, the technology. And you kind of forget that, yes, in the workplace there's a human threads.

00:19:49:08 - 00:20:19:24
Tom
But in the broader kind of learning world, there's this very human thread where learning is so central to getting anywhere. Yes, different levels of learning, granted. But I think often, certainly in the corporate space, we overlook things like language learning as, oh, it's not part of what we need to deal with, but as you point out, 20 what an increase of 20 million refugees in a relatively short period of time.

00:20:20:05 - 00:20:23:14
Tom
I suspect some of them at some point will want jobs somewhere.

00:20:24:10 - 00:20:24:24
Rustica
Correct.

00:20:25:04 - 00:20:42:28
Tom
So I think language learning is probably going to become a very large part of of our jobs in the future and basic technology training. So so kind of zooming in on the specific project that I'm really keen to dove into it.

00:20:42:28 - 00:20:43:13
Rustica
What.

00:20:44:04 - 00:21:02:04
Tom
Where did you start? And as you decided you would like the Pokemon Go idea, you want to do English? I mean, that's about as far as I would get and then go, Well, I've got no idea how to do that. So next idea. So for you, what was the next step there?

00:21:02:04 - 00:21:21:28
Rustica
Teach myself. So I am a bit of a lifelong learner. So I basically went online, went on Coursera, found a game design course and course. There was brilliant course. It's got the peer review. So you actually upload your work and you have to to pass actually. Right and review through other people's work just is brilliant. I love that part of it.

00:21:21:28 - 00:21:44:24
Rustica
But yeah, so I did a game design course and that gave me the understanding of game design, not this story, the tech side, but then as a business, we've we've often used Upwork as a freelance pool of freelancers, executive assistant serve of from Upwork. You know, we've had all sorts of people over the years from there. So I knew I could find, you know, someone good to be able to talk to about that.

00:21:45:13 - 00:22:08:06
Rustica
So did the game design. And then I know the person had to do was because with an augmented reality obviously needs a characters to about three characters and then it's got to move and it's fun to 3D modeler. So I found that person on Upwork, she's brilliant. And then I thought, well, because I'm actually going to another conference was actually a training incubator in Bali in October.

00:22:08:06 - 00:22:24:13
Rustica
I wanted to take a prototype with me, so I knew I had to do a product, get a prototype done. So she made some 3D models and then I interviewed a few augmented reality type people and also to some some basic research. So I was looking at like, what? What tools do you actually use to make augmented reality?

00:22:24:13 - 00:22:49:15
Rustica
I had no idea. So it was a tool mostly called unity, which is a game game design engine. Yeah. But then I came across this and this is interesting with tech and emerging tech, so came across this video from then Nintendo Tech, which actually made Pokémon go in the first place. And they've put out this plugins that unity called Light Chip and it was amazing this like you could actually you could actually put your phone.

00:22:49:15 - 00:23:07:12
Rustica
It would recognize water and buildings and sky and trees and stuff. So I'm an excellent worker, this like cold conference. And I want this because I have got these mascots of fish. So they're right because I know the venue. Right. Once this fish, their fish to jump out of the pool. But this is what this tool can do.

00:23:07:12 - 00:23:21:29
Rustica
And then the developers came back and said, well, we've spent a few hours trying to get get it to do that, but it doesn't do that because the text is not there yet. That. Right. Okay. What? Okay. Well, on the video, they hit the armies of butterfly coming from behind the building. Can you make me there? Because I can.

00:23:21:29 - 00:23:38:14
Rustica
I can do that. So. And then I came back and said, no, it's a 3D model. Like, we can't do that. So it's just it was like trial error, trial era, you know, I just don't like that. So, yeah, so, so essentially this is what I ended up doing.

00:23:39:11 - 00:24:01:08
Tom
About something that really interesting because I think that's, that's one of the things that makes me the just because of how my brain works. I guess it makes me nervous about being on the bleeding edge of technology. Is that unsure? And it's about what is or isn't possible with any particular bit of technology. And that's that's a really interesting experience.

00:24:02:06 - 00:24:33:13
Tom
So in, in terms of working with what I would describe as proper developers, because we often have like e-learning developers and I count myself among this sorry learning developers were not proper developers. We do cool stuff, but storyline is not quite the same. Level of development is what we're talking about. Yeah. So the relationship that you build up with those developers and your ways of working with them, how do you find that differs to working with and what we might call traditional indie people?

00:24:34:08 - 00:24:57:29
Rustica
Yeah, exactly. Well, I guess, first of all, I've had 30 years talking to developers. That's easier to do. But it was interesting because I talked to a few developers, one as the one we were using moments from Pakistan, which I just love because they are hugely talented and they were supporting an emerging economy and families out there. So I just love that aspect of it.

00:24:58:19 - 00:25:15:07
Rustica
Then I also spoke to a crowd out of the U. S and they were a minority group. So that minority group company but highly talented like they were doing some really cool stuff. So they were like, no, the prices, this thing, you're not interested to see it later. And it's like and it was like what you'd pay in New Zealand.

00:25:15:07 - 00:25:38:18
Rustica
It's like, okay, good for you, that's great. But I want to do a prototype and you know, this may or may not work. So yeah, so and but I it depends on the developer really is and it's probably like any techie person if they've got good communication skills and luckily with them I have good communication skills and we've got a project manager who sits in between us and the developers so they can basically translate.

00:25:39:09 - 00:25:55:01
Rustica
But it's been a really good experience because I'm right upfront with them and say, Look, I've got no idea about your team. This is what I want to do. I can't do this. But like the session is sort of like the big butterfly, like Grenadier Rustic. I can't do it yet. Tech is not there yet, so and that can be frustrating.

00:25:55:01 - 00:26:01:06
Rustica
So you've got to be quite resilient in terms of, of that. So yeah, I don't know this answer question.

00:26:01:24 - 00:26:30:13
Tom
Yeah, I, I ask because I've kind of discussed it with people before so evolved currently currently working on a couple of technology things that we're going to launch next year hopefully. And it was a real experience for me because I used to work in way back and kind of network infrastructure system administration stuff. So I, so I've got a fairly decent tech head on and I spoke to these people.

00:26:30:13 - 00:26:35:00
Tom
I'm just like, yep, I'm an idiot. That's I have no idea what these people are talking about.

00:26:35:21 - 00:26:38:12
Rustica
40 seconds and stuff.

00:26:38:14 - 00:26:59:09
Tom
Yet the sentence was the sentence. Imagine I'm a five year old and now trying to explain that to me has been used many times, but to great effect. I must admit it's been very interesting. And when I speak to people, there's often a lot of nerves about I can't I can't do that. My business can't do that because I don't understand the technology enough.

00:27:00:21 - 00:27:06:28
Tom
So have you found that that has been a problem for you?

00:27:06:28 - 00:27:31:13
Rustica
But but I think that is a pure mindset thing because people say to me, how do you get so much done? That's like, well, and how do you know these people? You just reach out to them like one of the organizations I've just reached out to eventually recently, Humanity Crew, they were right in 2015 right there when those boats came in off Syria and list was all about mental health for refugees and in particular refugee children.

00:27:31:28 - 00:27:50:12
Rustica
So I just reached out and I said, Hey, I see on your website you are looking for innovative ideas. I've got the scheme, had a talk. He goes, I love this. And I said, Well, anyway, he says, and we're going to be actually rolling web content out to other health. I, you know, first aid, mental health, suicide providers across the world.

00:27:50:12 - 00:28:10:14
Rustica
I said, how you doing that I wasn't doing on a platform. I said, Well, actually, I will donate my time to actually help you choose the right one because it's part of what we don't blow. We help people of the myriad of eight, 100 plus thousand plus, how do you pick the right one of my time? He said, you need to talk to our CEO like 120 minute conversation.

00:28:10:14 - 00:28:25:28
Rustica
And it's just but I think people I talk to people and I go, how do you do that? So we just do some research and email. But people, I think it's a mindset thing 100% and a confidence thing maybe. And maybe that's driving the mindset. Don't know.

00:28:25:28 - 00:28:47:20
Tom
Yeah, I think it's I think it's interesting. For a long time I kind of feel like Ellen has been a little bit insular, maybe certainly within a lot of organizations. That was my first experience. No, A&E was an industry that was very much a case of, well, we weren't Ellen, we were trainee, which I think says an awful lot in of itself.

00:28:48:07 - 00:29:05:12
Tom
If your department departments called the Training Department, not the Ellen Department of the Learning Department, whatever, it's going to be the show, will we name it next year? We're good at that. But yeah, I think it was very much focused on task, the task ahead to train as many people as possible, get the job done and get out the door kind of thing.

00:29:06:01 - 00:29:35:19
Tom
Whereas I think a lot a lot of these openings now are expecting more. And I think that's where sometimes my apparent mistrust of these technologies comes in, is when because these companies are expecting more from these teams, the teams are perhaps being sort of led down the path of grab the latest, newest shiny thing and implement it, because then the team will look like it's cutting edge, like it's a world class team.

00:29:35:19 - 00:29:58:04
Tom
So obviously you're using R with a brilliant project that sounds like it's going to have a real big impact. I'm sure it will. So how do you spot the maybe they're just wrong with the technology, but how do you spot those situations where the technology isn't the right solution or it's the wrong technology for the solution?

00:29:58:04 - 00:30:20:20
Rustica
Because I thought, well, of course, I'd always be looking at what's the business impact or organizational impact we're making and what's the most what's the most engaging way to do that, that we're going to get the biggest learning outcome to make the biggest impact? You know, we've just rejigged our what we actually completely rewrote our vision as part of this marketing we've been doing, which is actually to help.

00:30:20:20 - 00:30:46:12
Rustica
We're going to actually amplify organizations ability to make an impact. So if that's our vision that we are here to amplify that impact, you make this that comes you think about that in terms of learning. We actually need to amplify the impact your business is making. How do we do that? So that can be through people, processes, tools, training, resources, courses, development, secondments, so many ways.

00:30:46:12 - 00:31:17:28
Rustica
So how do I spotlight it? Just it just has to fit the brief, for example. So I'm just saying, for example, I went to a UK event quite a few years ago now and it was a VR, VR headset and it was how do you use the how to use a fire extinguisher? Now if you couldn't get the thing off the fire extinguisher quick enough, this fire was actually coming round, but it was crackling and you could actually see it the corner of your eye that my heart rate was physically gone.

00:31:17:28 - 00:31:43:02
Rustica
Quick, quick, the fire's coming. But it's an hour and a non in a virtual reality environment so that if you really, really want to train people to do that, engage the physiology that Tik probably is another one I saw was you know, have a conversation, a performance conversation. Would you spend that much money on a performance conversation? It's not a life or death type scenario.

00:31:43:15 - 00:31:55:23
Rustica
So yeah, it's is a tricky one because I think there's absolutely times when you would use it and then times which maybe the costs, it's just not worth it.

00:31:56:20 - 00:32:24:12
Tom
Yeah, that's interesting. Sort of the kind of approach you described, I guess kind of prevents you ever ending up in the position where you have to stop tech being used in the wrong thing, cause you should never get to that point. I suppose, if that's all. I suppose if you maintain that question of where's adding value, where's it, you know, increasing the impact, you know, it kind of becomes an easy and easy question to answer.

00:32:24:18 - 00:32:38:25
Tom
As long as, you know, both sides of expertize, you have to know what the tech's roughly capable of to be able to make that suggestion. So it's sort of those easy to answer so long as you have significant experience and understanding that you fill up over many years.

00:32:38:25 - 00:33:01:06
Rustica
And and if you think about it, like one of the use cases is complex machinery and maintain maintenance of complex machinery, you can either you can have that overlay so you know, stick one stick to stick three conflicts with you with glasses on or probably with glasses on because you need your hands. Obviously or support, you know, someone's out in the field and turn.

00:33:01:16 - 00:33:19:15
Rustica
They've gone to a broken water meter and someone the officers actually can actually see what they're seeing and seeing what they're doing. That could use cases because you could technically say, well, actually now instead of having two people on the job, we've only got one. So there's actually a benefit there in terms of productivity, there's a benefit there in terms of cost savings.

00:33:19:29 - 00:33:37:06
Rustica
So so yeah, that technology would work seamlessly inside LTD Learning Management system, working with the client at the moment, everything was done manually that the person that was at that side of it was massive. So it becomes a cost neutral type scenario. Plus the learning is going to be their expert learning experience that they feel better on their job.

00:33:37:06 - 00:33:50:22
Rustica
So that's the sort of way to use a tech. Now, if that company was doing it really well on a CRM and they were happy with it with cost benefit was least don't bother keep, you know status quo. So yeah.

00:33:51:14 - 00:34:25:09
Tom
Yeah, I find that really interesting because I think that whole approach and the way you talk about tech I think is very different to a lot of people who are talking about cutting edge tech, especially online and online is always a funny space because a lot gets said to grab attention, right? But there does seem to be this real buzz about tech, almost technology for its own sake and whether it's, you know, the metaverse, all those kinds of things, and how every meeting will be in the metaverse in a couple of years time, I won't be there, but apparently every meeting will be in the metaverse.

00:34:25:09 - 00:34:30:27
Tom
It's will no longer have any real offices, just virtual off virtual cubicles. That's what we'll have. It'll be amazing.

00:34:32:11 - 00:34:59:18
Rustica
I, I did think of one good use case with and so for me it's because it's interesting that I see that they've going to get very much the, you know, workplace has gone down that metaverse route. I was mentored for a very long time by a social entrepreneur and they taught when you structure your weight, you have certain energies doing certain things, for example, and that was around the different eating frequencies.

00:35:00:02 - 00:35:21:20
Rustica
So you'd have to steal data stealers about data and focus and spreadsheets, and then you would have a blaze day, which is around people and engaging and being out there tempo day, where you'd actually work with partnerships and your teams at different spaces. And I actually saved not only the work you're doing is in these different frequencies, you should have different work environments.

00:35:21:20 - 00:35:46:01
Rustica
So if you're doing the spreadsheets, go to a space either in your office or wherever. That is just a plain desk and one guy actually even hit a steel this all there to do that turn off your blah blah blah. Yeah. So I was actually thinking you could actually to get yourself in that space in zone like work zone, you could go in some university, here's my steel space and here's my this thing.

00:35:46:08 - 00:35:57:17
Rustica
I think that'd be brilliant use case. Right. You know, walking around and having a meeting in a conference. Yeah, maybe. But I think for me, day to day, that would be a brilliant use of the main office.

00:35:58:12 - 00:36:25:03
Tom
I think that that's interesting. More kind of personal. Well, personalization, I guess as opposed to everything being on there just kind of because I kind of feel like that that is often what he's doing. So it's really interesting to hear you talk about these technologies. A in a more I guess you know using them when they adds value way she's really nice to hear we're rapidly coming up on on the end of time.

00:36:26:08 - 00:36:28:09
Rustica
Which is what.

00:36:28:22 - 00:36:58:22
Tom
You write is very dangerous these conversations they can run on one which I don't particularly mind, but other people have lives. So sadly we need to wrap up. But I always like to ask a couple of key questions right at the end. First and foremost, when you look out now at the kind of land, the edtech space, what are you really excited about and what are you maybe a little bit either nervous or wish you weren't seeing so much of?

00:36:58:22 - 00:37:36:11
Rustica
Well, let's start with the second question first. Since the pandemic, there has been a massive slide into the market in tech. And I some stats about six months ago that from 2020 I think a lot of this last year so it's in the space of about 18 months. There was over I think it was 314 you funded alums in tech platforms and over 300 like how on earth do you keep up with with that volume and do we really need all that and anyway it is interesting site.

00:37:36:11 - 00:37:53:10
Rustica
Yeah so I'm not I just think that makes it really hard for people trying to select tech because there's just so much out there and then you get to overlay of the kept is in the finances online which is a pay to play model and they go there and they select something they and they haven't done. They don't even get on that anyway.

00:37:53:22 - 00:38:23:21
Rustica
So I think that's one that's the one thing of it that in terms of what I'm most excited about, as I said at the beginning, I feel like work has grown up like we're being treated as well. We, you know, employers are now treating their people as adults. Like that whole presentation thing. I never got come to the office in here for 40 hours and do your work where I was just to say, well, if my work for this month is these deliverables and I want to, I can do it in a week.

00:38:23:29 - 00:38:43:29
Rustica
Why? Why do I have to sit here for 40 and sit in traffic for an hour each way and miss my children? And, you know, so that's what I'm excited about. I think the pandemic is just a hopefully a although, you know, you've got these people that do. So their work life balance has got worse because they are working from home and now they sleep in the office and all the the flip side of that.

00:38:44:04 - 00:38:44:12
Rustica
Yeah.

00:38:44:21 - 00:39:12:24
Rustica
But I think it's people are just grown ups about it, employers are grown ups about it. I think this is a great opportunity. I think the rise of entrepreneurship is that's quite exciting. I say this, I sense to these people with side hustle and I think the rise of female leadership as well is really interesting. Like you look back and that way into the past hundreds of years ago and senior leadership was really strong and we've had, you know, a period of time where it's not so strong.

00:39:13:09 - 00:39:32:07
Rustica
And I think that's exciting. So I think that entrepreneurship works growing up. I think, you know, bringing the female so energies into the leadership positions and I see that on the refuge, maybe all of the all of the leaders are talking up all women. So that's interesting as well. So that's what I'm excited about.

00:39:32:27 - 00:39:54:08
Tom
Also, not some really good mix of stuff, actually. It's it's interesting. I love these episodes where we we more visibly see that connection between the industry that we work in and the wider world, the social aspects of what we do. Because again, I think sometimes we get blinkers on about, Oh, isn't brain science so interesting? And isn't learning such an amazing process?

00:39:54:08 - 00:40:01:18
Tom
And forget the people. People are quite amazing as well. Some of them anyway, some of them we could do without. But what can you do?

00:40:03:25 - 00:40:20:14
Tom
And finally? I mean, there's so much, so much cool stuff we've spoken about. Where can people, if they've got questions or want to get in touch with you, where can they find you online? And if they want to support what you're doing with your with the air project, I mean, what can they do to support you and help make that success?

00:40:21:20 - 00:40:43:25
Rustica
Oh, that's lovely. Thank you. I guess before I would share that with just say just I guess one call to action for everybody who is listening, which is to really think about how you can use your talents and skills to make a difference. I think that's so important. And I think the other thing is actually really being quiet and listening to what your soul is saying.

00:40:43:25 - 00:41:01:15
Rustica
And what is it that through your whole life has been the thread we talk about that thread to actually use those talents and skills you've been given them for a reason, and how can you make a difference? I've been asking myself this question for like ten, 15 years and I've never found a way to do that. And I used to frustrate the hell out of me in my go for interviews.

00:41:01:27 - 00:41:17:01
Rustica
It just said to me, What is with it with you? It's just in you, it's driving you. But it's like, what? How can you make a difference? So I'd love it if people had that sort of same vision and what they'd want to support this way is on LinkedIn. I love that. That's the best way to catch me.

00:41:17:12 - 00:41:37:06
Rustica
In terms of the project, there will be a website coming up but I am just posting about that on on LinkedIn. If people want to stay in contact, I have got a list of people that once it comes live I'll let them know that the website's live. As I'm walking, there'll be a wee using my fitness, my fitness planner or something I haven't said about someone else's.

00:41:38:01 - 00:41:50:13
Rustica
They can actually track me live walking and there'll be a givealittle page as well because the walk actually allow 3000 refugees to gain access to the app. So that's through sponsorship. So it's going to be a very cool thing.

00:41:51:00 - 00:42:10:27
Tom
Amazing. Well, best of luck with that whole project. We will definitely be keeping a very close eye on it at some point in the future. We'd love to hear how it's gone and obviously how successful it's been, but also any challenges that crop up because you all know there will be some, right? That's what makes these things so much fun to do.

00:42:10:27 - 00:42:16:01
Rustica
Are we video blogging it? Maybe we have, yeah. Maybe I'll walk and talk to you at the same time. And again.

00:42:17:03 - 00:42:20:06
Rustica
Fantastic. I couldn't tell you what we're doing.

00:42:20:06 - 00:42:52:01
Tom
No, no, it's been pretty amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come and talk to us. We really, really appreciate it. And thank you to everyone in the audience for joining us for another episode of the podcast. All the links for getting in touch or finding out about more discussed about will be in the description of the episode before you go please to leave a comment saying you know what you found interesting, what questions you've got and what you're taking away from this conversation to go into action in your own life.