Kia ora e te whānau. Running is often seen as a solitary endevour, however we are always buoyed up by those around us. For those of us who attempt feats that many would consider impossible, or at best improbable, family are essential. Which leads us to our tale about the Appalachian Trail and the Captain. The Captain, ably abetted by Gun Section and The Iceman set out to conquer the southbound FKT (or Fastest Known Time) and conquer it they did, travelling 2189 miles in 45 days, 4 hours, and 27 minutes to cinch the supported record. What follows is a fantastic conversation with Kristian Morgan, a British ultramarathon runner and coach and the only person to do both a north bound and south bound in under 90 days in two consecutive seasons. The lore of the trail is rich, and we talk about trail names, preparation, animals, and mindset in this week’s episode of Dirt Church Radio. Best Enjoyed Running.
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Dirt Church Radio on Instagram
Kia ora e te whānau. Running is often seen as a solitary endevour, however we are always buoyed up by those around us. For those of us who attempt feats that many would consider impossible, or at best improbable, family are essential. Which leads us to our tale about the Appalachian Trail and the Captain. The Captain, ably abetted by Gun Section and The Iceman set out to conquer the southbound FKT (or Fastest Known Time) and conquer it they did, travelling 2189 miles in 45 days, 4 hours, and 27 minutes to cinch the supported record. What follows is a fantastic conversation with Kristian Morgan, a British ultramarathon runner and coach and the only person to do both a north bound and south bound in under 90 days in two consecutive seasons. The lore of the trail is rich, and we talk about trail names, preparation, animals, and mindset in this week’s episode of Dirt Church Radio. Best Enjoyed Running.
Episode Links
Dirt Church Radio on Instagram
The big races over the summer continue to roll up, including Taraweta and Old Ghost. Then, awesome pack for your next big or small adventure, look no further than Ultra Spire. Bryce Thatcher has been making the very best in hydration vests for 41 years, and they just keep getting better. Head over to www. ultraspire. nz for more details. While you're surfing the web for great deals, head over to Wild Things, the OG online Aotearoa and Beyond Trail running community. VIP members get a discount code for three months to shop with credit. So DCR 2023 will now give an epic new VIP member 20 credit to drop in the Wild Things shop and obviously they get the VIP discounts with that too. Head over to wildthings. club to check that out. Now on this episode of Dirt Church Radio you catch our talk with Kristian Morgan who holds the southbound supported FKT on the Appalachian. Over the 45 days and change that Kristian was out there, he was smashing currants every day as part of his nutrition and recovery. We covered this last week, there were 83. 3333 black currants per capsule when Kristian consumed at least the equivalent of 7, 499 black currants on his trips. That's heaps! And no wonder he did well. Head to www. currants. co. nz to read up on the science and get behind these wondrous little purple capsules. And while you're there, you get 20 percent off. With your first order of Currents 30s with the code DIRTCHURCH FurtherFaster is the best independently owned outdoor store in the known universe Whether you're heading out on climbing, paddling, tramping or running adventures Look no further than FurtherFaster for all your gear and expertise needs Over the summer, if you're lucky enough, head over to 57 a Butin Street, CNIM, OTU, Tahi, Christchurch, or hit them up on the web at dub dub dub further faster.co nz. We've got something like further faster there in Christchurch. Rocky is hairy and so is badger. Jewels is nice and is delicious. Sko, further faster now. Oh, faster, further, faster now. Dirt Church Radio. Episode 256 of the Dirt Church Radio podcast. I'm Matt Raymond. And I am Eugene Bing. I'm Te Anau Koutou no Hoki Mai. We made it. We did. We made it. We're back in the car. It's raining again. We're at Riverhead, we went on a hike, not a walk. Yes. A hike. It was good. We even encountered some bit of technical trail. Yeah. It was good. It's no, we went on a walk, didn't we? Or was a hike. Okay, it was a hike. We went on a hike. I read the program. It said hike. Hmm. Anyway. Anyway. Hey, week down from Rage Against Riverhead. How are you feeling? Yeah. That didn't go as planned. Well, you went for a run. I went for a run. In the forest. I went for a run in the forest. That didn't go as planned to me. It was good. So. What a great event. Uh, essentially, Lactic Turkey had an event in the, probably a decade ago, called the Moro Madness. 24 Hours of Moro Madness. Oh, really? And for those who aren't from around here, a Moro bar is a type of chocolate confectionary. So Moro sponsored this relay event. And then it got folded into the Riverhead Relapse. So they had the I did not know that history. Backyard and the relay. And then, because some people were, in, in a country to the east of us, were pacing, or were found to be pacing their backyard runners. This, I didn't know this scandalous history. Yes, then Lazarus Lake, king of the backyard, said no, you can't have relays and backyards at the same time, so it got split off. Oh. So this was the first year that they had the relay, so it was, uh, eight. 12 or 24 hour relay, and teams are solo. I lined up to do the 24 solo. Made it about nine hours. Yep, and just had enough basically. Still, you ran for nine hours in the forest. It was good times. Yeah, super good course, technical, fun, heaps of people. Some of the teams events look, I mean, sorry, the team races, the eight 12 and 24 hour, was it? No, hang on. Yep, 12, 24 hour. Yeah, teams races look pretty fun. Yeah. People getting amongst it and getting into the spirit of it and some costumes. Yes, absolutely. Some, some, some costumes. There was all sorts of different people. We had a, we had a group of policemen. From Hamilton, next to us. Oh yes. Wandered up, came up, found their way up State Highway 1 for the event, and they had no idea what it was about. But, you know, got amongst it, and had fun, and Did they, were they tempted to deploy spikes on the trail to, to inhibit their Competition? There was no competition going on. These dudes were here for a good time. A good time, excellent. Good to hear, good to hear. But, no, it was great. It was, it's a really, it's a really interesting for me reflecting on the fact that You know, not, not doing this for, for years, and then doing two ultra marathons within eight weeks of each other, so doing just about 100k at Blue Lake, and then a 60k recently. It's been a really interesting process of You know, was I physically recovered? Yes, I was. Was I mentally recovered? I don't know if I was. Uh, you know, the recovery of going through that, that run. I mean, it's been a week later. I've had a couple of runs. I feel pretty good. Yeah. But still quite tired and just what that, what that looks like and, and then that thing of comparing yourself to other people. Mm. The, the thief of joy that is, that is comparison. Yeah. And actually giving yourself or giving myself a bit of a break and just going, hey. You had a good time? Yeah. Loved it. Hey they look like they had a good time down at Kepler as well, especially Dan Jones with his sixth win on the trot and Katie Morgan as well with the, that's her second win and third time on the podium. Yeah. She did the January 2020 edition, didn't she, where she got third Ruby Muir of course has got. Six wins as well, um, and so has Russell Haring, who won six in a row from 1990 to 95, and Ruby won six times between 2012 and 2019. Yeah, so Dan, he beat Daniel Belchin and David Houndschmidt it looked like there was going to be a bit of a race for a while by the sounds of it. Yeah, David was one minute back at Rainbow Reach. Yeah, then he had foot problems, I think. Have you seen His Instagram stories. No. No. Do I want to? Not really. Okay. Alright. The dude has a hole in the middle of his Yeah. Sort of just at the Back of his arch. Bottom of his heel. Ouch. He's got a hole. Yeesh. And, and, and talked about the fact that, you know, he, he, The shoes that he was wearing weren't the ideal one for the long run and destroyed his feet. He said it cost him a lot of time. So had all things been equal, it would have been amazing. And that's the way that it goes sometimes, right? It is. It is. That's racing. That's racing. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. But it'd be good to see a smackdown, wouldn't it? Well, I mean But, but then, you know, would Dan have been able to, you know, maybe, maybe that would have changed the way that he raced. Yeah. If, if David had got closer. Well, still, he was a minute. Yeah, good racing. And then in the women's two Nancy Zhang got up to Luxembourg first, uh, and then Katie came back and, and got, got ahead of her and, yeah, took the win. But you still win. Ding dong. And, I mean, Nancy Zhang, 547. 38, Robin Leach. Who, I had the pleasure of hanging out with a little bit last week, her and her husband Teddy were there just crewin and sittin up and helpin Sean. 5. 48. 01. Wow, that's close isn't it? What's that? 23 seconds. Yeah, so you're both on the gates aren't you? Yeah. You're running across the gate together. You're sprinting. What a thing. And then Jonno Jackson and Stephanie Wilson were winners of the, the grunt. You had FOMO? I did, I did. Yeah, we were talking about this when we were out for the walk, maybe not necessarily for the run. Sorry, hike. But just that vibe of being down at Kepler, it's such a special event. Yeah. And the people who organise it, the volunteers, you know, how the whole community gets in behind it. It is a special, special race on the calendar and, so I had, I had FOMO for that stuff. I had FOMO for that stuff too. You can keep your run. Six in a row. You know. Well, six starts in a row. It see how I feel in 12 months, but my god, I did want to go down there. But look, we will be on the airplane when this comes out. We will. We will. Yeah, heading over to Mount Kosciuszko, to the Ultra Trial Kosciuszko. It's going to be fun. And the snowy mountains. Yeah. Well, they may be snowy, or they may not be. Well, yeah. It was snow, it was snow last year. It was. And we're, we're keeping our eye on the weather report, and it just looks kind of warm. So, who knows, what if, who knows what will await us, but. Who knows, as, you know, could be 30 degrees, could be snowing, could be both. Uh, and the wild of course, so that starts the day, the, yeah, we're, we're on the plane the wild starts. So that's going to be, I mean, I'm looking forward to what promises to be a great festival of trail running. Yeah. In Arrowtown. And it's good to see Arrowtown getting a bit of, being the centre of it all, because it's such a great running venue in New Zealand, isn't it? Mmm. So good luck to everyone getting out in the hills for the wild this week, and we look forward to hearing how that all goes. We're 24 hour champs. Yeah. They didn't look too cold, did they? No, in Taiwan. No snow issues there. No, no snow issues there. Humids. Lots of Dirt Church Radio alumni there. Indeed. So, should we list them? We should. Let's try. Alright. Andrew McDowall. Dawn Tuffery. Fiona Hayvice. Jamie Stevenson. Jamie Stevenson. But yeah, look, congratulations to everyone over there. It looked like super tough conditions with the heat and I know, for instance, Andrew just came sliding in right at the last second, didn't he? It looked like he was lacing up his shoes on the way from the airport almost. Yeah. It still managed 202 kilometers, so, we will look for Well, no doubt. We'll have to grill him about it at our Christmas special this year. Yeah, we'll grill him about it. Christmas special. Stay tuned for details on that. Yeah, indeed. We'll be, we're just sort of flying live with things. How does he feel? Yeah, having a read this. Well, maybe this year might be a little bit different. Maybe. Watch out, watch out. Mmm, mmm. Hey, look, last week, or not last week, last episode, we mentioned, or in the greatest run ever, from Aaron. He talked about the Hammington. Yes. So we heard from Lisa Hammington after that episode and she's the daughter of Robb Hammington, who is the eponymous, is that the word? Yep. Ancestor of the Hammington. So Lisa writes, dad was a massive fan of the trails and loved Tarawera. It was his life. He wasn't. He wasn't fast by any means, just check out the time above, oh, she sent a photo, for the finishing, for finishing that 102. But that aside, he represented everything that is trial running. He was one of the two who formed 50 for 50, where they got 50 people to do the 50 at Tarawira Ultra. They succeeded this in 2023. Sadly, Dad didn't get to this. As he passed away, rather suddenly, in August 2021, from sepsis and COVID, he did get to see me do my first Ultra, not Tarawera, 2021, where I went out and did it anyway, without the aid stations, I'd done too much training, and in his honour, I am now training for the 102 at Tarawera, 2020 24. 2024. Under the guidance of Kerry and Ellie of Squadron, two people who he held in very high regard. Other than direct family, they were the only ones who spoke to him before his final moments. Kerry and Ellie even bought out a Squadron shirt in his memory, which, if you're at any events, you're bound to see. It's a blue and black squadron shirt. This was because Dad loved Kerry and Ellie so much he had the two shirts sewn together so he didn't have to just, didn't have to be dedicated to either the blue team or the black team. I now wear his old one to events. Pictured above. I'll, I'll put the picture in the, in, with us, in the show notes. At the wet Kinloch event, Aaron, my brother from another mother, spoke of, Okay, enough said, but now you know what a hammington is after all. Nice. Yeah. Thanks Lisa. What a legend. And thanks for reminding us of Rob. And, um, yeah, that's run at Talawera next year's gonna be pretty special. See you there. And that's the thing, isn't it? When you think about the sport, which can be incredibly solitary, it is also one that That does tie in family and does rely a lot on family support. And, and, and with that there is, as there is, you know, wonderful moments, there is moments of loss and there's moments of grief. And that ties us into our interview this week with the Captain Kristian Morgan, who's a British ultra runner, who recently set a new, fastest known time, supported southbound on the Appalachian trial, and he completed the 2,189 miles. It's 2, 189 miles. Miles, not kilometers. In 45 days, 4 hours and 27 minutes. And he's the only person to complete the Appalachian Trail in both north and south bound directions in under 90 days in two consecutive seasons. Wonderful conversation. Uh, very engaging man. Veteran of over a hundred ultras in 2020, he set the speed record for the Southwest Coast Path, Britain's longest national trial, completing 630 miles in 10 days. And yeah, he's fascinating. He's really deep thinking, very, very, very lovely dude. And you're going to love this chat. But he also asked that we make this interview in honor of his dad, Roger Morgan, who passed away recently. So it's our, our great honor and privilege to dedicate the show in this interview with Kristian too. Roger Morgan. Moimaerai, te rangatira. Moimaerai. Greatest run ever. Greatest run ever. Greatest run ever, which is the part of the show where we ask you to write into us and tell us your greatest run ever. It doesn't have to be a race or a mountain summit. It might just be a run around the block, something that's sung to you for some reason. Send them in to us. dochurchradioatgmail. com And this is from Caitlin Knox. So what makes a run the greatest one ever? The people? The place? The snacks? The trails? I'm not really sure, but I know that this one was pretty bloody special. I've never felt like I've had the life changing run that would class as my greatest run ever. I'm pretty young, so I still have hope that I have ages for another few epic runs to happen. Summer of 21 22 was a great one for myself in running as I was training towards my first 100k race. The adventure planning started with my peak long run for Tarawira coinciding with my family being away in the South Island. She puts here, I'm from Tauranga, so I did a bit of research. into possible day long adventures and then I realized that the Abel Tasman minutes from where we were staying near Takaka. I was going to try and run the full thing in a day, I wasn't racing it, I was just going to go for a steady solo day out on the trails, time on feet, and at that stage the furthest distance I'd ever covered, no biggie. So in New Years of 2021, I set up from Wainui car park just before 10am with a full pack and a big smile. I waved goodbye to mum and dad and set off for the first 22km before I crossed the Aweroa. And lit, and she said, my first ever water crossing in a run, hopefully at low tide if I got my timings right to meet my non run appearance for a supply drop. I took it easy and just enjoyed the beautiful views of Tasman beaches and stunning native bush peppered with friendly greetings. As I passed hikers, I got to the crossing, okay, and it was a bit taken aback by just how much water there was to cross. I took a surprisingly good path across meaning. Managing only to get up to my knees wet, which if you've done the Able Tasman, you'll know is pretty lucky. I got to the other side and I couldn't see mum and dad, so I decided to take a seat at the hut and have lunch. Fifteen minutes later, I see mum and dad walking towards the hut from the beach side. Opposite to the track they were meant to be coming down from the car park. Turns out the road to the car park was an unsealed four wheel drive track. Not quite ideal for our camper van. We all sat down for a bit and I got to hear about Campervan drifting adventures, then being unable to get to the crossing markers to get here, having to walk all the length of the inlet before their own water crossing, picking the worst and deepest spot, having to swim across because their feet couldn't touch the sand at the bottom, they were soaked in their normal clothes and jandals, but they were happy to see me and drop off my food top up. After a slightly soggy sandwich, some hugs and a repack, I was off and back running. It was an absolutely stunning day. The beaches were golden and the water was sparkling. I was truly on a runner's high for the next 30 kilometers. I had a bit of a dip in my mood and the final 10k was definitely a big effort and then before I knew it I was dropping down into Maraho to finish. I could see a hiker ahead of me and willed myself to finish strong with a sprint to get in front of him. I'm competitive as get out and it's something I like to try and do at the end of races too. Mom and dad were there cheering me on. It was an awesome finish to a truly epic and special day. 60 odd K in about seven and a half hours, no blisters or injuries, and I felt pretty great. Definitely was made even greater by the fact that my parents got to share in the fun by having such a big adventure. Well, they did nearly drown, Kaitlin, uh, in the middle having not prepared to swim, but it makes us run. So much more special for me because they put so much effort into helping me finish and surviving drifting in the camper van and near drowning, oh she did put that, and near drowning, and it's left lasting hilarious memories that we can all look back on and laugh about. So yes, it was a solo run and not really because I couldn't have done it without them. I'm so appreciative. Tata Weta ended up getting cancelled because of our good mate old Rona this year, and then I caught it two weeks before I was meant to race, so I'm hoping 2024 can be finally the year I get to do 100k. Oh, Caitlin, yes, yes, that will be your year, absolutely. Campervan drifting, I reckon that could be a sport. I'd sign up for that. Watching that. Caitlin, thank you. And there's a bit of a theme there, isn't there, that running is not just about running, is it? It's those family moments, as you spoke about earlier. Yeah. It's interesting the way that Greatest Friend Ever often ties into the theme of the show, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Even though we don't read them before we put them up. But look! Let's get into it all the way from Spain. Yeah. So we're at the end of our days. He was at the start of his enjoy this fantastic chat with the legendary Kristian Morgan. Kristian Morgan, welcome to Dirt Church Radio. How are you doing? I'm good, Matt. I'm good. It's early, but you know what? It's just nice to be chatting to you guys in New Zealand finally. And I mean, this is, this is a, a, a real international affair. Where are you beaming in from? Actually, I was in London just about two days ago, and now I'm in Spain, on the east coast of Spain. Uh, so everyone knows, I guess, you know Ibiza? You guys heard of Ibiza? Yeah, so I'm just, uh, if you were to draw a straight line from Ibiza to the mainland, I'm in a place called Denia. It's got some nice mountains out the back, yeah. Goodness me, and not tempted to pop across? Oh yeah, I'll take a trip with my girlfriend one day. Um, I haven't been there yet. I've been there before a couple of times. Not for partying. Just, uh, to take in some nice tapas in the old town there. You're probably the only British person ever to go, Yeah, no, I've been to Ibiza, but not for partying. Yeah, I hate to break the mould. Actually, I love to break the mould. Look, I mean, we're not here to, uh, to talk about, you know, Deep House, although we probably could if you wanted to. Um, but we're here to talk about your Appalachian Trail feat. Congratulations. Thanks. It's been a while. It seems like it's, uh, it's just my life now, you know. This 2018 helping set the record, um, yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. You know, have you, having had some time away and have some time to sort of decomp, or, or, maybe not decompress, what was the, what's it like undertaking something as vast as, you know, 2, 189 miles? Yeah, I mean it starts with so first of all, like, you know, when you enter a race you pay 150 bucks maybe a bit more something around that then you start training and then you do the race and that's it But with this it's like twenty to thirty thousand dollars US dollars So the first thing is right, okay, and then you've got to try and like get the product support So it all starts with Can I get the product support? Can I raise the cash? Um, and then you also taper in your, put it, weave in, sorry is the word I'm looking for, weave in your training and try not to get too stressed out by everyone just saying no, no, no all the time because you, you got to accept, you got to have thick skin and accept a lot of no's with, uh, product support requests and financial, uh, support requests before you get a yes. And that's just, yeah. That's normal. Otherwise it would be too easy. So then you do your training, try not to get too stressed. And then finally, when you get to the start of that 2, 198 mile trail, even though that's Kind of the tough, you know, that's the tough challenge. It's a bit of a relief actually to just think, Oh, all I got to do now is run every day, all day, which is just less stressful than the other stuff. It's an, I mean, that's the thing, isn't it? It's you can't even compare it to a race. It's, it's an undertaking. It's a lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is like, I, I don't know. I just with ultra marathon running, I started in 2009, uh, started marathon running in 2000, did my first ultra in 2009. And I just remember the goal with marathon was to get faster, but the goal with ultra was to get longer, you know, and I guess I finally got over 2000 miles. I mean, I started at 50 K 50 miles. I skipped the 100K, I don't know, just went straight to 100 miles. Then I did a 200 miler in, um, Italy, Tour of Giants, or Tour du Gion, which was pretty cool, finished that. Uh, and then, the next year after that, I helped Karel Sabe on the, on the Appalachian Trail. And then I was like doing 35 miles a day with him for just over two weeks. And then I went back the next year, and I, I had my own attempt, so. Yeah, it's been a journey of distance, for sure. Hmm. When was the first time you heard about the Appalachian? Yeah, uh, there's a podcast which was run by an English fellow called Ian Corliss. Yeah. Uh, tall culture. In fact, do you guys know that, uh, Ian Charman also used to started that off with him? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that, that, that was really cool. So I listened to that podcast and I think, um, Carl Meltzer, Carl Meltzer, speedboat Carl was, uh, is a co-host or was when it used to run, and Carl would come on and he would talk about Scott's up. Um. Yeah, it's Scott's attempt on the Appalachian Trail in 2015. So that's the kind of first time I heard about the trail about eight years ago. Mmm. And, yeah, because it was, he, he was pacing Scott, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah. And then when he had his own crack, yeah. Yeah, yeah, he was pacing it. I mean, Scott, uh, sorry, Karl Meltzer actually had two tries on the Appalachian Trail before Scott even had his first attempt. So, so, so Karl Meltzer's a, you know, a, um, a veteran. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean you've now done it four times haven't you? Yeah, I've had four attempts I mean if you actually count the fact that I started once this year already and Called it quits on day two because the weather was so bad and then thought okay It's all over and then went back to the trail after we waited for the weather to pass I mean really but you can call it my fourth attempt. I think What you just before we get into the diving deep on this particular um Expedition, I'm going to call it. Um, what was it like pacing Karel Sabe? How did, how did that come about? And, and tell us about running with that legend. Yeah. Desert, Morocco, Sahara Desert, 2016. I'm running Marathon to Sables. Most of the guys who run that are probably kind of corporate finance guys in the city going through a midlife crisis. No, I'm there. Cause I'm a, I'm a runner, a passionate runner, you know, and, uh, most of my tent mates are just all. Having something in common that I don't have, which is, I guess, money, you know, money. And I'm just in the tent thinking, ah, I don't know. I don't want to talk about spreadsheets, you know, I'm going to take a walk. So I took a walk and, uh, ended up in the, uh, like a kind of a reception area where you can sit and hang out. There's no, no, no one there, really, you know, just people passing through and Carol Sabe sitting there. It's pretty sweet, really, to think about that, think back to it. And, and we, and I was sitting there and he was sitting there and we just started chatting and he, you know, he said he wanted some fresh air from his tent mates. And it was the same with me. And, and he started talking about the Pacific Crest trail and how he was going to hike it, never told me he was going to go for the speed records and, uh, and then. Yeah, it really just got along well with him. Just a nice, quiet, peaceful individual. Uh, and then I saw on Strava that he set the Pacific Crest Trail record on a Strava post. So I said, hey, congrats. And then he invited me to come and pace him on the Appalachian Trail. And that's how I got to know him at Marathon de Sables. Wow. Wow. Thanks. Thanks. Uh, investment bankers for that. Uh, forcing two passionate runners out of the tent into the darkness. Uh, talk. One of the things that I'm really, we all have a first introduction to the Appalachian Trail. Mine was, I don't know if you've ever read the Bill Bryson novel, A Walk in the Woods. Yeah. But hold on, Bryson's novel? Bill Bryson. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and he ends up sort of on a, essentially on a whim walking the Appalachian trail with his friend. What was it like? I mean, it's not just something for people to see the fastest known time on it. It's, it's a, it is a real. culture around it. There's, there's law and there's, there's a society almost built around this trial. What was it like immersing yourself in such a richness? So let's go back to 21 and his friend's cat, his friend's name is cats by the way. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. And he's a real character man in that book. Anyone who hasn't read it, go and give it a go. I like that. It's full of factual stuff about trees catching diseases and you know, like, uh, yeah, very cool. So yeah, the community, like typically I guess you could call them the thru hiking community and a thru hiker is Someone who does the entire 2, 000 miles in one year, right? So, um, so in 21, I had my second attempt at the Appalachian Trail and the two first attempts in 19 and 21. Finished at Hot Springs, so that's 250 miles or so. So that's just five days worth of running 50 miles a day. And I was really disappointed. But we had the higher vehicle, we were over in America and I really wasn't ready to just fly back to the uk. So in fact, I think that year I wanted to be a through hiker more than a a, a trail runner.'cause I had this big, long beard. My hair was down to my shoulders, and I was watching Darwin on the trail. YouTube videos about what gear to take on your hike and I think deep down. I just wanted to hike the trail that yeah So anyway, I came off the trail in hot Springs and I got, um, my mom, who's also my crew done section to drive me up to Hanover, which is about 500 miles from the finish dropped me off with. I even had a through hiking backpack with me. So I don't know if that was a coincidence or just subconscious kind of stuff, you know, and I put all my stuff in a backpack, my tent, sleeping bag, and I actually joined and it coincided with The, the, like, the through hike, a lot of the through hikers were in Hanover and, and, and about to finish the trail the last 500 miles. And I joined the guys, I mean, I started off by myself, uh, hiking alone. And eventually you, you talk to someone, uh, you, you set your tent up near some other people and you end up, I start, I, I joined a crew called the Dirty Bubble. And, um, yeah, like these guys were awesome and I just hiked with these true hikers who had hiked the previous 1, 700 miles and, you know, and, and they embraced me and I became a section hiker. Like if you don't do the full, you're a section, but it was a big section and yeah, I mean, it's a great community and there's all sorts of interesting words like trail family becomes tramily. Um, you know, uh, yeah, I can't think of any other stuff. It'll come to me, but yeah, it's, it's an amazing community. It's not just about trail running. Yeah. Is there any, um, standoffishness between the thru hikers and the, and the trail runners? Well, yeah, because I guess they're all looking at me in a strange kind of way when I said, Oh, I got injured down in Hot Springs and now I'm back on the trail hiking. So there was lots of curiosity questions, uh, a guy called Road Soda. Um, I think actually it's quite interesting because a lot of these through hikers by now are really in great shape. Um, they're super lightweight with their packs and actually the through hikers are jogging the flat sections, jogging the downhills, you know, with their packs because they're pretty light and, you know, I just said to the, um, the guys, it's not much different from what you guys are doing. Obviously we're hiking the really steep parts, we're climbing the rocks and then we're jogging everything else. So, but we do it obviously for 50 miles a day. So I tried to build this bridge between what a FKT setter and a thru hiker is. And I think the fact that I was camping with these guys every night with Like tons of scraggly long hair and a big scraggly beard. I think these guys like just took me and it's like, oh, this guy's actually just one of us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What what about the The community beyond those who are actually walking or hiking or running? You know, do you, do you encounter others, you know, the people who live in that area? I know it's a remote part of the world, but you know, are there, are there encounters with those who live there? Yeah, I guess you're, so the trail, um, it used to have immigrants living like those mountains, the Appalachian mountains used to have people living all along. Where the trail is. In fact, you run past old buildings, um, really old style, you know, stone buildings and stuff and stone walls. Um, and, and I think what happened with when the Appalachian trial was built, a lot of these people, the land was bought around the Appalachian trial to protect it and these people had to move out. So, so actually no one really. Lives on the Appalachian Trail. Um, you do run across some farmland, I guess. Uh, and then you run through some towns, but as for the trail itself, it's protected by the. ATC, Appalachian Trail Conservancy. So, but yeah, I mean, there are, there are hostile owners as well. Um, but yeah, I still like people living on the trail. It's kind of maybe they used to, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I said, had this romantic image of the, well, I don't know, romantic's the right word, but the people of the Appalachian mountains. Um. And that sort of storied history of their own, um, yeah, being, being somehow connected to it. But, but no, and I think they're doing, there's a whole load of Appalachian music around it, folk music. So I actually delved into this and I started cause I wanted to really study the Appalachian tribe before I get there. So I listened to the music and you know, there's these Irish immigrants who are coming over living in the Appalachian mountains, um, and, and singing and dancing and writing poetry. So there's, it is. So that, that was once, but unfortunately no longer, which is quite sad, really. Yeah. Mm. So, to this year, and what turned out to be the successful, um, crack at it, you know, as you've mentioned, it, the weather was not playing ball to start with. Yeah. It sounds, sounded atrocious. Yeah. I mean. I think when Scott Jurek did it, that was the most rainfall ever that year. And I think that's been surpassed. All records have been broken from this year now. And it was, I mean, it was devastating. You know, I, I was, so, you know, you guys are ultra runners, I guess. Do you run ultras? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, sorry. I didn't do my research with very average. Oh man. Anyone who finishes a marathon and beyond is not average. Superhuman. So, so, uh, yeah, like this year, the weather was, uh, enough to take hikers. Like hikers were getting off trail. A lot of hikers didn't finish their hike this year. I mean, the trail actually was, there was diversions in place. My, so what I was going to say and asking if you guys were ultra runners is, so when you're training for an ultra, most people have a training plan and they have, you know, a base building phase, they have, um, like a peaking phase and then a taper phase. So I got to the end of my taper phase and then I had another six weeks of waiting to start. So my fitness is, yeah, by the time I got to Katahdin actually, uh, cause I'd already run, I started in the north and came down south. By the time I started, I'd already run from the top of Katahdin down to Abel Bridge about three other times, you know, in training, and one of them on that full start day, and when I started on the actual attempt, I felt the worst ever. I felt so bad. My hips were tight. Uh, my, I just felt terrible. You know, my left adductor muscle wasn't Feeling good. It was dark that morning as well, whereas the other mornings it was light. So, yeah, it was, I mean, okay, these are really, um, annoying things, but I mean, a hiker died on trail, you know, so I mean, whatever annoying things happened to me, you know, that's just part of attempting a through hike. I mean, the fastest known time attempt, but yeah, a lot of condolences go out to the hiker who lost his life and That, you know, obviously his family, that's, that's a lot worse than what I had to go through. And that's the thing with such an Endeavor expedition, like the Appalachian trail, there is, uh, there's real. The potential for danger is there. It's, it's an inhospitable environment in many parts, you know, you think about people where so the photos of the rocks that you're clambering over and and Anything like that was there any moments for you during that time that you you had any sort of close calls or two? Did you know is yeah two times in particular a guy called Matt Hart Who is a, um, a writer was with me along with actually, um, uh, some other runners in the white mountains. And we were going up, we were all under tree line and the weather wasn't great. Uh, we've, none of us had our rain jackets on or windproofs or anything. And as soon as we got above tree line, I mean, as soon as we approached above tree line, I actually was first in the. little crew of people. I stopped to put my jacket on because I could see it was whipping, you know, of wind. And we all got up. I stopped, put our jackets on and then carried on over these wet, slick kind of rocks. And, um, uh, I saw a flash of lightning and I counted to nine seconds and, you know, then we heard the thunder. And then I think that the next one was a little bit closer. And then I, I, then there was this kind of weird kind of, um, um, like, it was static, like a vibrating sound, like a buzzing sound. And I just turned around to Matt with like wide eyes and I said, what is that? And he just said static because he's from Colorado, I think. So I turned around and I end up running a 5k PB over these wet rocks to get to, I think it was Madison Hut. And Matt just said he tried to follow me and end up slipping and falling a bit and I was gone, you know. Um, and so that was one occasion. I didn't want to get struck by, by lightning. The other occasion was actually the next day. It was part of the same storm. Um, I stopped at Madison Hut and I had to get up and over Washington, which is a notoriously dangerous place for through hikers, whatever you are, day hikers, people. And, uh, and the wind on, they have a wind, um, forecast on the, on the boards and it said 96 miles an hour winds. And, uh, I, I really just wasn't sure whether it was a good idea to get outside. So I did, I dressed up in all my clothes and. I ran, uh, hiked mostly up over Washington. And when I got to Washington, there's a weather station there and it was like 96 mile an hour winds. So, uh, I just questioned whether to go on. I waited there about two hours and I thought, I'm not sure if this is going to be safe. So yeah, you're right. There were two particular occasions where I, I genuinely questioned whether actually I was in a dangerous situation. It's funny with wind, isn't it? Eugene and I, a couple of years ago, we're in a race in, in Wellington. It's called the Wellington Urban Ultra. Um, it's not much, not, not too much urban about it, but the, the wind, I mean, that would have been well up over a hundred kilometers. I'm not sure if it got up to a hundred miles, but that was, I remember thinking. Oh dear. You know, we're running downhill being pushed back up. Yeah. The hood of the jacket does nothing, you know, whipping like a sail. You just, it's, it's so interesting, isn't it? People talk about, um, lightning water, but it's wind that can be just so very, very concerning. Yeah, totally. I mean, I was actually. Obviously, when you're in the mountains, there's, you've got to climb down boulders and stuff and step down four foot sections from one rock to the floor. I was able to lean forward into the wind and the wind would hold me down, like support me as I was coming down. You know, I mean, it was that, it was that crazy. And then at one point when I was going up, cause I changed the trail continuously changes directions. One time you're heading Southwest, another time you're heading Southeast. And when I was going up to Washington, the wind was behind me. I could almost lean back and just walk up over these, um, rocks. So yeah, winds pretty, yeah. I mean, it's a bit scary, you know, in terms of, I mean, and I guess that's the thing, isn't it, sort of keep drawing these, an ultra marathon, even something like tour de jambe, you know, you've got life bases, you've got, you've got crew, you've got stuff like that, and it's 200 miles and that's a long way and it's very difficult terrain. Um, Ten times that how did you what were you what were your considerations regarding like gear and nutrition and stuff like that? How did you prepare your physical? I guess you your body and what you had on foot for such a task Yeah, I guess I start obviously in the planning, you know when you're chasing after the product support and the funding, you know First of all, you got to make sure that you're wearing the right equipment So, uh, can I shout out a couple of people? Cool. Yeah, shout out to Hoka for the past like three years for supporting me, you know, um, with my shoes. Um, and they were my main kind of t shirt, shoes and all that kind of stuff. So I had to get familiar with all my gear. You know, I didn't want anything chafing. Um, I ripped the insides of the shorts out. Well, I didn't rip them out. I cut them out and I wore like Ronda wear cause they work really well. And I never chafed, never had any chafing. And then when it was raining, I wore exoskin, um, which I like a bicycle short and then that stops any wet materials. So again, I didn't shave. So I had everything down, you know, no chafing, comfortable with my kit and then there's nutrition. So I started in the months fortifying myself months before with my favorite supplements. Gotta shout out Currents as well. Actually, Currents are from New Zealand. So yeah, cool thing about these guys is actually, it's not really a. It's, it's just dried currants, you know, so I was already a fan of every morning I have my smoothie and it's not just got currants, it's got currants and berries and stuff like that. And these guys have formulated this kind of pill where a handful of currants. is in one of these pills. So it just makes it a lot easier. And I actually not only did that, like in the months leading up all the way during the attempt, I had two in the morning, afternoon and two in the evening. So there's fortifying yourself, you know, with the nutrition and the supplements and stuff. And then I guess there's getting out there, you know, so you're like calories every day. What is that? Like 6000 minimum calories a day. Okay. You know, so you've, you've got to have food because if you don't have food, you can't move forwards like you, like you've got to have the energy and you've got to be able to digest that. So my watch bleeped every 30 minutes and I ate 150 calories every 30 minutes, which I think was impressive, you know, to do that 45 days, you know, I thought when I came off trail, I would be, you know, like needing to eat every 30 minutes, but it wasn't the case. I was kind of sick of eating by that point. So. So yeah, there's a, there's a lot. What would you take on board? Oh, so everything, you know. Um, in the morning, I would have a smoothie. I still stuck with my, as well as the current supplements, I still had my, uh, berry smoothie. In fact, I had, it was wild blueberries from Maine. Uh, so I was having about a pound a day of these things. You were like 90 percent beery by the end of the trail. I guess I'm like, One of those things though, like you used to have the gummy berry juice, right? And then they'd bounce. Yeah, gummy beers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I used to watch that when I was a kid, so maybe subconsciously, like, you know, I just, I'm a gummy bear, you know. I just bounce down the trail. No, but I really believed that. The more of this stuff you put inside, you know, the better you're gonna feel. And, uh, yeah, I mean it got me the Southbound record, so. I ate McDonald's, I ate ice cream, I ate, uh, bacon and egg sandwiches, I ate blueberry, uh, sorry, uh, smooth, berry smoothies, you know, I ate, uh, trail mix, I, I'm kind of everything you can imagine that you can carry as well. And did you, did you, with that everything, I mean, and I guess that's the thing at this point, your body's a furnace, right? You are, you're probably not keeping up with your, as hard as you try, you're going to burn, there's always more calories to burn. Would you, with that variety, was there a routine or it's just, you sort of kept it really easy and whatever you felt like? No, I started off as a routine. So start off, uh, so I was waking up at 4am in the morning and I was usually on the trail by 4. 20. And within that time, I'd had a black coffee and one of these berry smoothies and all my supplements again. Um, and then, uh, I would eat a few snacks, like every 30 minutes, you know, just trail snacks. And then when I saw the crew for the first time that day, it was typically after three or four hours, sometimes five hours, six hours, depending on the next road crossing. And then I would have my first kind of hot food, which would be a bacon and egg sandwich. Uh, which was good. Uh, and I'd have a monster drink as well. I got into those monster drinks. Uh, yeah, they give you a boost. And, um, and then I went back to the every 30 minute snacks again and just ate a 30 minute snack all day, uh, until the nighttime and I had a camping meal. Uh, and then some ice cream and went to bed. That was it. Yeah. Eat, sleep, run. Um, you, I mean, you can't do this alone and you mentioned your mom, but, you know, tell us about that whole crew logistics and, and how all that worked for you. Cause you, it's, it's a, it's a mission in and of itself. Yeah. It was a two person team. There was a three person team, including me, you know, I'm the runner. Then there was two, uh, crew. One, my mom, who, like I said, she's, uh, her trail name is gun section. And there's a funny story how she got that. We're in Walmart back in 2019. And every time I phoned her up, but, you know, I'd ask her, cause they're big stores. Have you been over in one of those Walmart? Yeah, yeah, massive. Okay. They're huge. Like you can't, you know, so I'd phone her up and I'd say, Hey mom, like I can't see you. I mean, where are you? And she, I'm in the gun section. You know, I think after three times she said that, okay, let's just say that your trail name's gun section. It might stick. It might not. And it did. And then the next crew member is a 73 year old, uh, man called ice man, David Martin ice man. And he got his trail name from giving ice to a young seven year olds, or I think she sprained her ankle or something like that. And he's a trail angel in a. Someone who goes out to the trail every year, he section heights the entire Appalachian trail. So I had like two um, amazing people with me to help me, you know, achieve my goal. And it's not easy. I mean, these guys have to be up in the morning the same time as me and go to bed after I go to bed on the nighttime. So if I'm only getting five hours sleep, those guys are getting less. Uh, then they have to navigate forest service roads, you know, uh, then they get to a road and a trees fall and across the roads, what do they do? I mean, you know, there's all these scenarios that happen out behind what I'm doing, you know, running and stuff. And then there's, I guess, support, you know, they can't be negative and it can't be, you know, fed up and just, I come in and I don't know, staring at their phones, like, Hey guys, give me some attention here. So yeah, um, they've got to be strong, mentally strong and emotionally strong to help one of these things take place. So I reckon, you know, to run a world record attempt on the 80, you've got to be a world class runner, but you've got to have a world class crew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And you went for experience over, over youth. I love it. I mean, I'll be honest, man. I went with what I had, you know, like if you look at most people, Scott Jurek had his wife, Karl Malz's dad and Bell, his friend Bells went along, you know, Jen Farr Davis had her husband. I mean, for someone to dedicate this amount of time for Each day for these amount of weeks and months, I mean, my mom was like, yeah, Kristian, I'm in, I'll do it. And then Iceman contacted me. So I was lucky with that. So yeah, these, it's just, just fortunate that someone wanted to be part of it really. Yeah. Yeah. And your mom was doing your socials as well. Is that right? Yeah, she was doing the social media. So she was like taking, and she enjoys that as well. She was writing a bit, interacting with people. Yeah, the comments and meeting some of the people coming out on the trailer and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. What, um, the, you've got a strange role, haven't you, in that, in that dynamic and that you probably can't afford to worry about what they're doing or, um, be concerned about what they're up to. You, you've got a job to do. Um, so that must make a strange. You know, it's a, it's an odd relationship, isn't it? You, I mean, as a human being, obviously you're worried about them, you know, when you do hear that things are happening, but, but you've just got to get on with it. Yeah. So I, I mean, I evolved over the years, not 2019. In fact, My mom has crewed me from 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23, so five years of crewing, and in 20, I couldn't get over to America, and we set the record on Britain's longest national trail, so I have experience with her, but back to 2019, um, like, we were doing a lot of arguing with each other, you know. Um, I was getting triggered by her. I guess she was getting triggered by me and she's a, I mean, the name gun section suits are pretty well, you know, she's very, I mean, fiery, she's fiery, you know, she's and so that's why her and Iceman worked really well because he's a very laid back, peaceful person. So the fire of, you know, My mom and then, um, the, the relaxed approach of Iceman really works, but yeah, I guess where the main worry is, are they going to be able to get to the next road crossing to meet me? And as the years went by, they just proved that they could. So I tried not to worry about these guys. And in fact, I think as, as. I learned not to worry about these guys. Oh, you guys are getting dark over there. I was waiting for us, Matt, but actually it's sunset. Yeah. Yes. It's, it's, it's dark outside and it's, um, yeah, what, what, what a beautiful day it's been, but did, did speaking of weather, I mean, it started terribly, you said, you know, you, you, you there it's dark. The, the weather's so bad that someone unfortunately lost their life on the trail. Did it get better throughout? And it, yes. Yeah, the rain stopped. So we left Vermont. And in fact, it affected all the way down to Massachusetts. But I remember once we got into like Virginia, there was actually a bit of a drought. All the river crossings where on the waters where I could collect water, all the water sources were dried out. So it was kind of the opposite. So I went from running through mud for like, you know, 16 hours a day, days upon ends and, and water and crossing rivers that should have been ankle deep, which we're now chest deep in, in places to, uh. You know, not being able to get any water on the trail. So it went the opposite, but I mean, I enjoyed the sun, you know? And I like, I get, if you had to choose between a dry water crossing or like just running through mud all day, I'll just carry a bit of extra water. Give me that any day of the week. Yeah. There's something so, I mean, being hot or being, you know, in the sun is one thing, but there's something so encroaching about spending. I mean, I can't imagine spending multiple, multiple, multiple long days in mud, but even spending a long day. Running in mud is just so, it can become so problematic in terms of, you know, even the friction on the soles of your feet or all that sort of stuff. Did you have any problems related to that? Yeah, I did. So that's why I got off trail on, I forget what day it was now, I think it was day seven. With an overuse injury just above my right ankle. So I don't know if you guys or anyone out there has ever run on sand or on the beach, you'll find that your, um, the muscles around your lower legs actually ache because you haven't used them before. So when you're running through mud, it's the same thing. Uh, the ground doesn't stop when your foot hits it. It actually goes down a few more inches. So then your, uh, muscles are acting as stabilizers that they wouldn't normally need to do on firm ground. So what happened was after about three days, by the time I got into Vermont, I just had a pain, uh, which got so bad, I was on my hands and knees, and I was crawling, and I was crying. And, uh, I just got to the point where I made a decision to separate my mind and my body. And I just said to my body, listen, I'm sorry. I really apologize for trying to just push you through this. I'm going to give you a day in a motel and see what we've got tomorrow. And I'm excited and I have faith in you, you know? So 16 miles in that day, I got off trail. I saw, I walked in to see the crew, barely, you know, I could barely even walk. And I just told them what had happened and, uh, we got off trail, went to a motel, stayed there, next day got back on trail, uh, and my pain in my calf, like above my ankle, sorry, went from like 10 out of 10 to 4 out of 10, and then eventually went down to 3 and then disappeared. So that worked. So you made a deal with yourself. Wow. Yeah, I did. I, I just, like I say, it's weird. Most people are like, okay. I am me. You know, this is one thing, you know, but what I did was I realized my mind was pushing my body and these are two separate things. So I like, yeah, I just had to separate. Okay, Kristian, your mind is wants this and your body wants this. So you need to listen to your body because your mind is driving you. To the point where you're on your hands and knees now. Wow. So it was, uh, these kinds of things happen on trail. Yeah. At that point, you're almost like a negotiator between your body and your mind. Yeah. It's like, it's like there's three different entities. Yeah. It's amazing. It was, it was cool. I mean, like then this. I remember this hiker came because I was going against all the South, the Northbounders, sorry. I was going South wasn't I? Yeah, I was coming, all the Northbounders were coming up, finishing their hikes. And this one guy came around the corner, he just looked at me and my, my eyes must've been bloodshot red, my cheeks full of tears. And he just said, dude, are you okay? And I just said, I'm good, man. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I carried on. And by that point I'd negotiated. I knew what I had to do. So I was good. Yeah, yeah. What other, I mean, that's an extreme version, but you must have to employ a ton of mental Um, strategies and tools to be able to undertake something like this, especially four times, you know, like you got to get out there and do it again. It's, it's quite the mental gymnastic routine you must have to go through. Yeah. Shout out to Scott and Don at trail running nation. I heard them use that phrase, mental gymnastics, actually I was, yeah, I don't know if you've heard that. From those guys, but yeah, it's cool. Mental gymnastics burns energy as well. So we had this whole conversation about the more mental gymnastics you're doing, the more tired you're going to be. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, as soon as like the alarm went off at 4 AM in the morning, mental, the mental game started. So I didn't allow myself a millisecond to contemplate what I had to do because. If I would have laid there and listened to my alarm for 60 seconds or just turned it off or just lay there, like, the way you feel when you wake up, you're groggy, you know? And actually, an hour later or 20 minutes later, that grogginess has disappeared. So you can't lie there because the way you feel at that very moment is temporary. So the first thing I did every single morning, my alarm would go off. And I would sit up, my clothes would be in the roof tent, I was on a roof tent on the Toyota Tacoma, and I would just start getting dressed, and I would sometimes have to say out loud, the way I feel now is not the way I will feel in one hour, and I would just get dressed. So that, yeah, as soon as your day starts, as soon as you wake up, you start with a mental process of how do I make this work? How can I get through this? Mm, amazing. Amazing. Um, you also had some incredible animal encounters, I understand. Yeah. We love a good animal encounter story. So, so, yeah, one of my favorites, I'll tell you, like, that was this, uh, this is Like I said, a lot of hikers are coming north and often they've got dogs and stuff, you know, a lot of hikers, not a lot, but some hikers take their dogs. And, uh, yeah, this dog is coming down the trail, a big open slab area in Maine. Uh, so I'm a couple of days in and I just. I'm a bit curious as to why the dog doesn't have an owner, you know, a hiker. Sorry. I was listening to, I forget which, uh, podcast or something. Is it a podcast? I forget. I was listening to something. I think I was listening to Dershowitz radio. Yeah, that's right. And, um, Matt was telling this cool story. Yeah, just kidding. So, uh, yeah. And then the dog kind of turned around and went 180 back. And I thought, that's a really nervous dog because my peripheral vision is getting, you know, I'm not really staring at the dog. I'm just taking it in heart heartedly. And then I look at the back of its neck and its ears and its tail. And I'm like, holy crap, that's a bobcat, man. That's a bobcat. And it growled at me. And then it went into the bushes. And I was stoked because. You don't see bobcats. You just don't see them. They're like mythical, quiet, private animals who just don't come out. I think they're even nocturnal and you ask 2, 500 hikers and maybe I think you'll get like One or two or so bobcats. So I was, I was one of those guys. I was really lucky. Tons of bears. One bobcat. One bobcat. I guess it's a thing, isn't it? Like you don't see them. They see you. Yeah. Yeah. I was aware when I was going through the trail that I was probably being watched. You know, by stuff I couldn't see, you'd be glad of that. I, it's something that we ask a lot, especially people who've, uh, had, you know, um, a lot of running experience in the Northern hemisphere, because down here, I mean, we've got birds and that's it, you know, our native species, we've got. Pigs and goats and stuff, but nothing, nothing large and carnivorous and in the woods, which, um, which is pretty cool. Actually, it does make for going over. It ramps up the three level if you go on overseas, but Well, yeah, I mean, I, I know I can empathize with you there, Matt, because like back in England. Yeah, true. We got, we got birds and squirrels, you know, and squirrels are just not really super impressive either, you know. But the first time I was on the trail with Carol Sabe, um, my first bear encounter, we were running and you don't like necessarily see them as much as you hear them, because when they stand on, uh, branches, the branches break. So we both heard some branches break to our right and we look over and there's a bear. And, uh, it hadn't seen us at that point because it was still walking and just to see something two times the weight and size of myself is, uh, like exciting and scary at the same time, you know, and then after it's gone, you kind of want to see another one, you know, you're like, wow, that was just, it kind of makes it, it, it sends feelings, it releases feelings inside of you that are real human feelings. fear, excitement, um, or, you know, or, and you don't necessarily feel these. Things when you're walking down the street. So to have these amazing human emotions come out, like these ancient human emotions or prehistoric, Neanderthal or whatever, like these amazing human feelings. Yeah, it's part of being out in nature. I guess that's why some people love being out there. That's why I love being out there as well. And what, how do you deal with errant beer? Errant. What's errant? Well, you know, it's just, it's there, it's, it's, it's wandering around. You're wandering around. Uh, it's a chance encounter. How do you deal with it? Well, I think, yeah, I got to tell the story. It's a true story as well, man. Like, yeah, if Carol listens to this, I hope his memory's as good as mine, but like, I think the second or third bear we saw, it was to our left this time. I just remember, cause I was running behind Carol and the bear was slightly to our left. It meant that I was in between the bear and Carol. And, and Carol accentuated that by taking a sidestep to get further behind me. So I thought to myself, dude, you're hiding behind me. It's just there in front of me. I didn't say it out loud, but yeah, I guess, uh, and then, and then it just left us, you know, left us alone. It wasn't really close either, but yeah, Carol actually stood behind me. So. That's how he reacted. Did you check the terms and conditions of your pacer agreement? I hope he doesn't, um, not remember that and think I'm just being an ass, but that's about it. And I guess it's that thing is then that comes down to the very human, uh, you know, the human conundrum that has probably lasted millennia is you don't have to be faster than the bear. You just have to be faster than Karel, you know, like, you got to be faster than the slowest person in the group or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. There's, there's the wildlife out there is amazing and snakes. I saw tons of snakes, Cobra, not Cobras, rattlesnakes, sorry. You know, uh, like, uh, copperhead, copperhead snake, I was filming it as like getting right. I didn't run in, I show someone like, Oh yeah, by the way, you're just filming like one of the most dangerous snakes on the trail that can kill you. It's a copperhead dude. But I did have my phone on zoom, I wasn't that close, 0. 5. How do you make sense? And I guess, are you still, how do you make sense of such an achievement? What's been the, what's been the processing afterwards? Like, you know, like I had. Elliot Kipchoge, you know, when everyone, I think, had to give a talk in the, um, uh, this documentary I was watching, The Runners, or I have to give some advice that day. I think Elliot Kipchoge's was, you know, let's not turn around and look back over our shoulders and, and, and stagnate in our success. I don't think he used those words, but in his English, you know, uh, let's not just like marinate in our success. Let's always look forwards. So, to be honest, actually. Um, most of my time I'm always looking forwards because I'm always, yeah, okay, I've got the southbound record, but I went out there to get the overall or the Appalachian Trail record the fastest time and I didn't get it. So already I'm still looking forwards, you know, so I don't think I've got to the stage in my life yet where I can fully. Absorb what I've done, but to me, I'm normalizing it as part of the mental strategy that in order to be able to do this, it has to be normal to me. Um, challenging. Yes. Uh, but, um, it has to be normal. So I didn't view it the same way as everyone else would view it because. I wouldn't be able to do it. So I've kind of just come to terms with, yeah, that's, that's what I'm doing. And, uh, and, and, and I keep my head looking forwards and, and the only time I look back is to see what mistakes I made and how, and I can change that for next time. What is, that's the dreaded question, isn't it? With, with any runner, you know, with any kind of runner, especially someone who's done something, uh, which is of significance, not that any. Like you said, anyone lacing up their shoes is doing something of significance. What is the next thing that you have on the cart? So the Appalachian trail, I mean, like I'm, I'm 46 years old. I I'm the second fastest in the world last year, you know, overall. This year I come back, I set the southbound record, you know, I'm in my prime, um, next year I go back, I go for the record, but what I do is I go northbound next year, and I'll be the first person, there's only two people in the world, right now, who could possibly attempt what I'm going to attempt, I'm one of them, and the other one is Carol Sabay, so I'm going to attempt to hold the record in both directions on the Appalachian Trail, Carol has the northbound, so if he went south next year, He could attempt what I'm going to call the double 80 record. So I'm going to go, I went southbound this year. I've got the record, so I'm going to go north and attempt to hold the north bound, which is the overall record. And then I also have the southbound and I'll be the only person to attempt that in history. And if I pull it off, I'll be the only person to. I have ever have done that. So I'm going back to the 80. That's what I'm doing. Yep. So right now I'm doing the normal thing I do, which is, you know, chase after funding, see if my product support is still there. And I guess that's the thing, isn't it for potential sponsors or people who producted, uh, you know, I'm sure that companies like Hoka get inundated with, you know, Hey, you should give me money and shoes and what have you, but you you've really now, you know, you, you, you're reaching for that. Brass ring. And it's a legitimate and very real possibility bearing, you know, uh, nothing untoward happening. What, yeah. Like what gives me the right to think that I can go in and, and, and, and set the record on the Appalachian trail. I'm the second fastest in the world, you know, Uh, and I have the southbound record as well. So, you know, I mean, I'm pretty legit two years in a row and I've failed a bunch. I didn't just get it lucky first shot. You know, I came back year after year after year and yeah. So I'm, I'm legitimate guys. You know, a lot of people say stuff, they say they're going to do it. I was, I'm one of these people who does it. Yeah, we, we, we got that impression early into our conversation is, um, is our gun is coming with you. Gun section is coming with me, you know, she is like, she's in it for the long call. Unfortunately, Iceman said he won't be able to commit to next year. So yeah, we're exploring some avenues cause there's no way I could expect just her to be out there by herself. You know, you actually need a crew to do these things. It's a supported record attempt. Otherwise it wouldn't happen. So yeah, at the moment looking at, um, some other, uh, potential. People who might be able to fit that role. Actually, no, one's ever going to fit the role of Iceman. There's someone else who can, you know, bring themselves and their personality and their strengths to the expedition. And a trail name. Yeah, and a trail name. Yeah, of course. On that, now this is the thing that, you know, and people might not know this with the Appalachian Trail, you know, you, you spoke about Road Soda, there's the best name ever, Gun Section, uh, and, you know, Iceman, and, um, there's Stringbean, Anish, all these famous names. Would you mind sharing, do you have a trail name? So like, when I was with the Thru Hikers in 21, those guys, uh, called me Downover. That's because I lived in England, but I used to live in Australia. So instead of down under, it's down over. So every, everyone who hikes the trail in 21 calls me down over and they still do. Hey, what's up down over. When I hear that down over, it's just, I feel like I'm back on the trail. Uh, but actually a guy called Scott Grierson who raced David Horton in 1991, um, and became the fastest hiker ever. Uh, Scott Gron came up with a trail named Captain. He made a post on the Facebook, uh, 2022, uh, through hiking page, uh, about, there's this guy and he put a photo up of me. His name's Captain, captain Morgan, and he's gonna go for the record attempt. So then everything through Hiker I ran past last year is, hey. Hey, uh, it came out in three versions, Hey Captain Morgan, or Hey Captain, or Captain Oh My Captain, I think, which was from Dead Poets Society. So there was a few variations, but I guess just Captain, you know, was the thing there. Which is a bit goofy really, I mean, it's not that cool. It's pretty cool getting someone else. If you gave yourself the name captain, it'd be like, that would be uncool, but someone legit gave you that name. And that's, that's, that's pretty excellent. When does the, um, when's the next, uh, window and sort of you'd be trained and like, what does the buildup look like? Yeah. So like, uh, it should have been this year, uh, June 1st. Uh, but yeah, finance and then the weather delayed us. So June 1st will give me. The 41 days with the most amount of daylight hours. So the earliest sunrises, the latest sunsets. So based off a summer solstice, which would be around the 20th of June, that that's the perfect window for me. Uh, and then. Preparation will be to still recover. I'm still recovering. I got off the trail eight weeks and two days ago or something like that. So I'm still recovering right now. Um, so I'm doing lots of swimming in the ocean. Uh, I'm doing lots of cycling on the bike. Uh, in fact, I did park run the other day. So I was running some six minute miles, which my body was not ready for that. Yeah. It was kind of a, so, uh, yeah, just a lot of, uh, preparation and, uh, recovery, sorry. And then I'm going to go to Thailand. I'll arrive on my birthday, the 3rd of January. And just go back to my old training ground in the north, the mountains of North Thailand. There's a trail there called the Caffeine Trail because it goes up to a coffee plantation. And I just go, I run up the trail or hike up the trail, get to the top, drink a coffee, go to the big mountain, run down, just do this, repeat, and then spend a month in America. Um, got a friend called Veronica Leeds who lives in New Hampshire. And uh, shout out to her and her family. And, uh, probably spend some time on the trail, you know, and get acclimatized and then start June 5th. That sounds amazing. Look, Kristian, you've, it's been such a joy to, you know, we brought this together quickly. Uh, you know, you're on the other side of the world that, that like you're starting your day. I'd like to thank you for how generous you've been and just insightful. On Dirt Church Radio, we ask every single person who comes on the same question. To, to, to wrap things up and that's Kristian Morgan. What's been your greatest run ever? Yeah. Um, wow. Give us a minute to think my greatest run. You know, obviously you can run a long way and that's your longest run. You can run fast marathon. That's your fastest run. Or you can be somewhere in your mind and your heart as you're running. And that may be what you could call your greatest run. And I've happened to be in a really nice place many times in life, in my mind, in my heart. And those have been my greatest runs. One in particular one, I guess, which was more focused in my mind, I guess I could speak to. I was doing parkrun. Does any of you guys know what parkrun is? We know what parkrun is. Yep. Big fan of parkrun. It's parkrun's. It's great. It gets good. It gets people out there. Yeah. It's the community. And I think love the whole idea. Yeah. And I was doing a park run. I wanted three, four weeks prior. I do it every Saturday when I'm in the UK, like I wanted to get a personal vest, not for me, it's like I wanted to go on the 17 minutes, you know? And so the, the weeks leading up to it, I'd set a pace and I knew what split I had to run the first mile in and the second mile, and it just. And I was going a hundred percent of my effort and it was always a struggle. And then I got to the start line and I, and I made a decision. I actually decided I would run 90 percent of my max rather than a hundred. Forget about my watch. Didn't look at the time. Um, and, and just run with my mind at 90%. And I did the 5k and I was really, it was the fastest I'd run in the past four weeks. I didn't get the PV, but it was the fastest I'd run. And I didn't have that. really terrible engulfing sensation of I can't handle this. I can't handle this because I still had 10 percent left. Yeah. I use this with my coaching clients, you know, don't give it a hundred percent and I still had 10 percent left and I got to the finish line and I looked at my splits and it was, there were, I think they were exactly the same or within one second of each other, you know, for the laps and, and I felt it easier than I'd run last week, even though I'd run. Slower last week. So yeah, anyway, the greatest runs for me, that was an example of ones where I'm at peace in my mind and my heart and that's my greatest runs. Beautiful. Yeah, just being in that zone, right? Yeah. You know, people talk about it and as runners, we often, we often overshoot it, don't we? And overthink it and, you know, stress out when it's just, like you say, just back off, let it happen. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Thanks guys. Congratulations, and um, yeah, thank you so, so much for making the time for us, we really appreciate it, and we look forward to seeing you have a crack at that overall record next year. Yeah, yeah, please do follow along, uh, if anyone does want to follow it, just go to my Instagram page, and have a look at, you know, My crazy dances that I was doing this year, I had to dance to keep my sanity. They are crazy. So yeah, you guys can share my, uh, Instagram. Will do. And we will do it on the show notes. Thanks man, appreciate it so much. I like the concept of a lion day. Yeah, I thought he said a lion day. So did I. And I was like, oh, I can't see the name of a lion. Oh no, a lion day. Yeah. That's the kind of wildlife encounters we like, we approve of, on DCR. Hey, sorry, did you see somebody get attacked by a falcon? Yes. At Whakarewarewa Forest? Yes. Yeah, it terrified me, but I also did wonder if it was really that Pukekohe. In drag. Yes. I was doing the Tarawira 50 one year, and they were like, okay, here we go, 10, 9, 8, And then they went, stop, we've just actually had an announcement that there are some very, very aggressive kāreria nesting up in one of the blocks and they will attack you if um, you go past. So just, just be careful. Seven, six, five. I was like, Oh, what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, look, Kristian also is up for FKT of the year and you can vote on that. We'll put the link in our show notes. Yep. Definitely. So check that out. And after having listened to him and you feel. He is deserving of that honor. Give him a, give him a tick or whatever it is that they do for that voting system. Right. Thank you very much for tuning in as always. And thank you to Kristian. We're on social media at Dirt Church Radio. You can email us at dirtchurchradio. com. You can find us on all the podcast platforms, like and follow if you fancy, and you can download direct from the website, which is dirtchurchradio. com. Don't forget to write them with your greatest run ever. That time you nearly drowned your parents or you went, uh, campervan drifting. We'd love to hear from you. You can have a read of them on the website. Site get inspired, and then send us your One Dirt Church radio@gmail.com. Thanks to our sponsors, Scott, running for the Faster ENSs and Sierra. And thank you to our patron patrons and wild things. Stay tuned for our show in two weeks, we have another great guest lined up. Hey Corne. Hey Corn. Thanks Rugby.