Discover the hyper-growth blueprint that catapulted Harwell Consulting from a startup dream to a seven-figure reality in a mere nine months, as founders Harvey and Adam recount the pivotal strategies and mindset shifts that fueled their ascent. This episode peels back the curtain on the entrepreneurial spirit, revealing how personal development, an obsession with improvement, and a fearless approach to business decisions can propel an agency to the top. From the tactical deployment of Virtual Assistants to forging authentic relationships, learn how Harwell's ethos has shaped a company culture that thrives on loyalty and a shared vision of success.
Witness the power of transformation as our guests Adam and Harvey discuss how mentoring and coaching have been instrumental in personal growth and building a robust business foundation. They emphasize the delicate balance of pushing boundaries and maintaining core family values amidst rapid expansion. This conversation is a treasure trove of insights for anyone in the recruitment industry, detailing how Harwell's unique strategies and dedication to continuous learning have set them apart as a leading agency. The path to entrepreneurship is laden with challenges, but it is the steadfast determination and nurturing of genuine connections that underpin Harwell's thriving enterprise.
Zoom out for a bird's-eye view of the recruitment landscape as we examine the intricacies of Harwell's hiring process and delve into their strategic decision-making, which emphasizes thorough discovery and transparent client relationships. Additionally, this episode is packed with candid reflections on fostering a team-centric environment, the excitement of planning a team retreat that encapsulates the business's rapid growth, and the anticipation for the next merchandise cycle. Join us for an invigorating discussion that not only celebrates Harwell's achievements but also serves as a masterclass in entrepreneurship, personal growth, and recruiting excellence.
· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
Discover the hyper-growth blueprint that catapulted Harwell Consulting from a startup dream to a seven-figure reality in a mere nine months, as founders Harvey and Adam recount the pivotal strategies and mindset shifts that fueled their ascent. This episode peels back the curtain on the entrepreneurial spirit, revealing how personal development, an obsession with improvement, and a fearless approach to business decisions can propel an agency to the top. From the tactical deployment of Virtual Assistants to forging authentic relationships, learn how Harwell's ethos has shaped a company culture that thrives on loyalty and a shared vision of success.
Witness the power of transformation as our guests Adam and Harvey discuss how mentoring and coaching have been instrumental in personal growth and building a robust business foundation. They emphasize the delicate balance of pushing boundaries and maintaining core family values amidst rapid expansion. This conversation is a treasure trove of insights for anyone in the recruitment industry, detailing how Harwell's unique strategies and dedication to continuous learning have set them apart as a leading agency. The path to entrepreneurship is laden with challenges, but it is the steadfast determination and nurturing of genuine connections that underpin Harwell's thriving enterprise.
Zoom out for a bird's-eye view of the recruitment landscape as we examine the intricacies of Harwell's hiring process and delve into their strategic decision-making, which emphasizes thorough discovery and transparent client relationships. Additionally, this episode is packed with candid reflections on fostering a team-centric environment, the excitement of planning a team retreat that encapsulates the business's rapid growth, and the anticipation for the next merchandise cycle. Join us for an invigorating discussion that not only celebrates Harwell's achievements but also serves as a masterclass in entrepreneurship, personal growth, and recruiting excellence.
· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
Hey guys, harvey and Adam here from Harwell Consulting. We've just jumped on the Confessions of a Recruiter podcast for episode two with Blake and Declan.
Speaker 2:Now, we've covered how we got from zero to seven figures within nine months, the kind of plans we've got for growing the team, the end of season trip to buy-in that's coming up, and then the bigger long-term goals for the business.
Speaker 1:If you're in the same position that we were 12 months ago and want to fire any questions our way, then make sure you message us on linkedin and we'd love to help welcome back to another episode of confessions of a recruiter.
Speaker 3:We're here with ravi hivers and jim white from harwell consulting. Welcome boys, we're back. Thanks, blake. Thanks for having us all. Right, should we do another intro now, just in case, like a proper?
Speaker 2:like a serious one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, okay okay, welcome back to another episode of confessions of a recruiter. We're here with adam and harvey from harwell consulting. Thanks for joining us on the pod boys it's good to be back, very good is this your third time on the pod? Second, second, second, volume two.
Speaker 1:I think number one. We were about six weeks in, so we felt like we couldn't really talk about anything too serious.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think the main topic of conversation was hide and go seek with the lights off.
Speaker 3:And that bat joke and a bat joke yeah, that bat joke got a little bit of traction actually, didn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah that didn't go down too well.
Speaker 4:Now we're running a seven-figure agency nine months in business staff On the.
Speaker 3:Goldie, living your best lives.
Speaker 4:In your own office. Everyone on the Gold Coast Highway can fucking see you every day. How does it feel? Have you even looked back at all?
Speaker 1:I think that's probably something we're bad at. We're just always looking forward. So, yeah, there's been times where we've just had to step back and go fuck like it's incredible what we've built. I think if you'd have told us we'd be sat here in this position when we started, I'd probably ask you to turn water to wine for your next trick as well. So we're we're pretty stoked with it yeah, it's just incredible.
Speaker 2:Like the journey it's been, it feels like a lifetime, but also so quick at the same time. It's just so much fun. We still absolutely love every day, and I think one thing we're quite passionate about is just increasing the goals all the time. When we started, this was that stupid, ridiculously faraway goal, but now we feel like we're getting close to that. We've got new goals which we're trying to achieve and new things which just keep us pretty pumped and running to the office every day.
Speaker 4:And how has it changed? What do you? I know we're talking about all the meaty stuff early on, but what is when you get into nine months, 12 months in business? What are these new goals that you're like planning for, that you envision now?
Speaker 1:Well building a team for a start which you're doing yeah, which we're doing and have more people two more confirmed for July 1, which is great. So that'll take us to, I think, six in total. Yeah, we're quite honest. When we launched this, it was going to be me and Adam till the very end. You know, build a good network, be very good at what we do in our certain areas, but probably turn it into more of a lifestyle business. But, but probably turn it into more of a lifestyle business. But I think some of the personal development we've done along the way just unlocked new goals, new challenges and probably has to see what was achievable and we're just obsessed. We're always kind of stepping forward and we don't like being comfortable. So, yeah, it's definitely been good to keep us kicking forward.
Speaker 3:You know, one of the posts actually that really resonated with me, I think, adam, I think you posted it oh, maybe three or four months ago, and your LinkedIn post was the biggest shift that you've had and just correct me if I'm wrong here, but it was the biggest shift that you've had is gone from a scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset, and how much more business and activity and like reward comes into your life when you give more and you change that mindset from employee to employer. Can you like expand on that?
Speaker 2:yeah, bang on. It's still true today as well. I think we try and collaborate with a lot of recruiters now, whether that's about actual jobs and candidates or it's just how things, what are you found? How you're doing stuff as well um, abundant in terms of the jobs and the clients as well, rather than ring fence my 10 15 clients and no one else can call them. Now I kind of back myself to. If you do want to speak to a recruiter, great, hopefully you're going to go. Actually, the experience of how well was way better, and then that just doubles down and the reason why they use us again, rather than have the fear and the anxiety of losing clients. If one did say we're not for them anymore, we did a bit of a shit job, I back us in to go and get the next one and the next one after that.
Speaker 4:But even like that's just one part. But now we're talking about you. Guys are getting offsite coaching. You're spending thousands of dollars a month on all that. A scarcity mindset to go. Oh fuck, I'm not going to do that. So this is like bleeding into all areas of your life in such a positive way. It could even be like, you know, I don't know how many hours you work each week, but even realizing that, hey, you can have a bit of time off, do things, keep the family you know together, and being a part of it Is that right.
Speaker 1:I think it's just looking at it as an investment. Yes, okay, we've spent x amount of thousand dollars on personal development for us and the team, but what revenue is that unlocked? Probably from a business perspective, but then also ourselves and our team from that personal perspective, like you said, I think our emotional intelligence as well as our business intelligence. As you know, we're 10x on where we were when we started this. So I think that kind of ties back into that abundance mentality of we now want to bring people along with this journey. We've experienced how amazing it was in those early stages. So now to be able to bring Andy into the business, who's a long-term friend of ours, and Chloe as well, who we've worked with before and absolutely love her, to bring these guys on this journey, we say that we're all going to the top and we want them there with us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mate, what would. If we just like rewind 12 months. 12 months ago you were working at Hayes. You were good billers, life was pretty good, fair, yeah, yeah. Looking at where you guys are now, did you ever envision, you know, could you ever envision that you guys would be where you are today? 12 months ago?
Speaker 2:It would be a ridiculous thing to say it would be nine months.
Speaker 3:Nine months ago Nine.
Speaker 2:I probably just couldn't see it because it wasn't a reality. It wasn't something that I knew was out there to go and chase. It's probably been well above and beyond the expectations and just the way we've done it as well, right, I think you can talk about the numbers and the growth is great, but we've had a bloody good time doing it every day. And we, you know the social media side of things with linkedin that's kind of something we've stumbled upon, not really a strategy that we had. You know, we kind of did a couple of videos, got decent engagement, did a few more, and then it got to a point where, if we stop doing the videos and stop getting that engagement, we're only hurting ourselves. And now it's kind of become a thing.
Speaker 3:So it's interesting that you say that. So if we could compare your fulfilment being recruiters 12 months ago and your fulfilment being a recruiter today, you're doing the same job. You're doing exactly the same thing as you were doing 12 months ago, but now you're like levels above from an emotional and a fulfillment standpoint. Why do you think that is? Why are you so much happier being a recruiter just sitting in this office than you were, you know, being somewhere else?
Speaker 1:I think there's a couple of reasons. I think 12 months ago it was just a job. I think now it's my life, probably the personal risk as well. You know, if we don't do well and we don't build an amazing brand and do the right thing by people, we can't pay our mortgages. You know, we can't feed our kids, so it's that it has to work. But I think doing it for yourself and building that own brand that's ours that you can really really be proud of, um, that's where the fulfillment has just been incredible for us. For someone to come in and say, okay, you're doing a good job within someone else's agency, that's brilliant. You get your pat on the back and then you kind of move forward. But now when someone goes hey, that business that you've built looks incredible and it's doing really well and people come, want to come and work for you, that's where it's just yeah, it's worlds apart.
Speaker 2:I think the feeling that just reminded me of um, a meeting I had when I was at hayes and it was the start of the last financial year when I was there, so it's a couple years ago the first four periods, so four week blocks, I'd done 100 grand out of three of the four of them, which is ridiculous, like stupidly good, couldn't believe it. I remember sitting there at the end of it with my boss or whatever, and I was going like it's, it's good, but I don't really care. I'm not trying to sound like a wanker because it was awesome, it's so good, but I didn't have that when I didn't ever do 100k a month. That was the mecca, same thing. And then, kind of when I achieved it, I was like, ah, what?
Speaker 2:Now I've got to go and do another 100k or more. I've got 150. When does it stop? And what is it? Just chasing dollars? It was just a bit of a hole and that was. I didn't say, oh, I better go, let's recruit and start my own business. It wasn't that clean cut, but I was definitely going.
Speaker 1:I can't do this for the next 10, 20 years yeah, I think life changes, like for me, I had a little girl, um, and there were probably things that recruitment industry as a whole sometimes gets a bad rap. There are bad operators. There were things we've witnessed firsthand. There's things that we've heard about, um, and I'm just like when something happens, you become a dad, you're like I just want to build something I can be really be proud of and go home to my family every day and just feel fulfilled and then flip back into the you know dad mode and that this has given us that yeah, it's interesting you say that because dad energy and soon you'll get there, mate Dad energy is a different energy where, like when you want to turn up to, I thought when I first heard about Elsie Kat being pregnant with Elsie, I thought, oh shit, my ambition is going to go down the toilet, my goals are down the toilet.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to be able to keep like reaching above my, um, my knowledge or skill level. But then when you've got like a kid on the way or you've got a new baby, it's almost like I want to be the best version of myself so I make my, my kids proud, and so when my kids grow up they can be like, yeah, dad was a killer, you know, be super proud of their dad. So that's just something that I find is a massive driver with young families, because a lot of people starting their agency, especially an ex-recruiter they're all like either really young, a kid on the way, or they've got a really young baby. It's this weird thing that we're attracting Maybe it's just the age group, yeah, that a lot of people are starting their own thing, but having that kid that you can go home to that child. So I shouldn't say kid having a baby to go home to is something special as well, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's a blessing in disguise as well. I'm sure you guys have conversations with people looking to start their own agency and it's not the right time. It's not the right time. In my opinion. That was the best time. We had no other option than for this to work when you actually start, that's when everything goes to shit.
Speaker 4:Yeah, what, like when you actually commit to starting? Usually there's a few hurdles and then you get by them and then it's fucking awesome. Yeah, but usually it's never really the right time to start a business.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:When I committed to starting. Then we found out about Sage and you know, everything wasn't ideal Same with you.
Speaker 3:I thought you meant everything goes to shit when you start a business. I was like, oh really, no, that wasn't very good.
Speaker 2:But what I meant was that, like, certain things pop up that test you at the time, and it's mainly it's like a lead way into business, because you get past those little things and then it's happy days and we've spoken a fair bit about the benefits and the fortune of having a business partner, having someone to bounce off as well, and one sentence that always sticks in my head when I speak about when we started the business is that the only way our well consulting fails is if a meteorite hits the earth. Right, there's nothing that we won't do to make this work. It's going to have to be someone out of our control, and I think just having that clear-mindedness goes shit. Yeah, you're right. What's the worst that can happen?
Speaker 3:When did you adopt this? Was this a weekend? Was this before you started? When did this kind start or grow?
Speaker 2:Before I say yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's something we've had for years.
Speaker 3:In Hayes. You had that in Hayes when you were starting. They're sportsmen.
Speaker 4:They've had it forever.
Speaker 1:Yeah when you're in the pro football game in England it's cutthroat, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So I think there's an element of that in our background. But I think there's an element of that in our background. But I think, probably in terms of this business, when we made the decision and you pay your deposit and we're on board and you start writing the content, building the website, you're like, okay, shit, we're in, we're not backing out now. So it's just like we've got to make this work. And the closer and closer you get to your resignation, I guess that feeling starts to really kind of come to the forefront.
Speaker 3:Was there any moment that you thought, fuck, we've made the wrong decision here. Maybe we should have stayed at Hayes?
Speaker 2:No, it was the opposite as soon as we decided we are doing it. It was three months away and it was maybe two, and it was a month. And then the days, Because obviously at the time, as you might remember and the podcast listeners might remember, it was rock hard recruitment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, rock hard recruitment. Yeah, rock hard recruitment for a long time.
Speaker 2:So we'd be running around the kitchen at a's going. Oh, imagine when we're at rock hard. You know we could do this. Do that really that's so good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that that's awesome. So it took three months was that like the longest three months of your life to try and get together and get it launched and start working for yourself? What was like when you made the decision? Psychologically, you paid your deposit. Was it like time slowed down and every deal that you did at Hayes started to become a bit of a struggle, because you're like, oh, I wish I could just do this for myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the mindset changes. I think once you decide you're doing it, you almost become the business owner then, because then all of a sudden, the work you are doing with your agency, it has to mean so much more because you're like, okay, if these are guys that you know I want to service in the future, I need to be doing you know 100 such a good service by them now for them to make the jump and you're doing that. So trying to be successful in your full-time role as well as then jumping on the calls after hours to write all the content we're constantly talking about it. So it was full on for three months. So it probably, yeah, in my opinion, I think it went quite quickly.
Speaker 2:It's probably a good little apprenticeship, it's a little level of work. You've got to get through doing your job and the business as well.
Speaker 4:So when you do start, you're not blown away by the workouts ahead of you and then you see how committed Andy and Chloe are and that just fires you up. It fires me up just to have them fired. They are up and how passionate they are about Harwell. I think when you're seeing, like you know, we experienced that with Serge and the team we'd actually recruited it's like when you start, everyone's on a mission and it's like let's fucking go, it's win at all costs and everyone's on the bus together. That's one of the best feelings.
Speaker 2:I know we give a lot of shout-outs to Tucky, as we all do from Swish, but seeing where Andy and Chloe as well started to, then going on the boot camp and now listening to them, they're five times better ten times better than they were before, that the way they talk to people, the approach they try and get, the outcomes they try and get from people aren't hey, mate, do you want a laborer? It's okay, let me understand your business.
Speaker 3:so then, if I can help, I can definitely show you how we can do that it's just such a cleaner conversation and it feels way better in terms of doing your job yeah, if you've got more certainty, you've got more faith in your own ability when you you know how to ask those more important questions rather than being transactional. So so have you guys always thought prior to starting harwell, learning and development and coaching and mentoring is, was that always at the top of your priority list? Because it feels like the harwell boys are just they bleed. Like coaching, mentoring, leveling up, you know, like if there's anything that gives them an edge, they're into it and they're adopting it and they're implementing it. Has that always been the case? Or did that just happen when you started your business and you thought now let's start investing in ourselves?
Speaker 1:I think it's probably just goes back to an obsession with wanting to be the best, best version of ourselves, but also the best at what we do. Yeah, we're, yeah, we're just obsessed with always trying to think where can we improve. And I think we're quite honest and we know our weaknesses, so that's probably areas that we've decided to get mentorship and training and development. Um, and to see that now filter down into the guys and the way they've embraced it. Well, even you know we talk about culture.
Speaker 1:It's hard to say, you know, put your finger on what is a good culture, but we sat down with the guys and did a kind of quarterly review individually a few days ago and to read some of the comments that they wrote and that they said about the business, it genuinely gave me goosebumps To sit down there with Chloe and Andy, who have been dream employees as our first two hires, and they both said look, I see myself here forever. You know, I literally envision I'm here with Harwell till the end. That's just like where you sit down and go right, okay, all the work, all the hard work, the extra development, it just all means something then.
Speaker 3:So for a recruiter listening, and they perhaps maybe they're at an agency, maybe they've got their own business, and they've always toyed with the idea of personal development, training, coaching, all that kind of stuff. What would your advice be to them? Um, what did you feel it was the biggest improvement, either mentally, sales wise, physically, whatever it might be? What do you, what kind of advice would you give them? If someone goes all right, I want to level up, what do I do? Um, cool.
Speaker 2:Swish is probably the first one to be fair.
Speaker 1:No, shout out um we're not on comms, by the way, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:They've got a referral partnership right now. Just use hashtag Harwell at the checkout.
Speaker 2:But I think we did a two-day immersion, which was intense, kind of two days. There's five business owners there and he was like, okay, what is your sales process? And I go, I just call a client, get a job on, send a candidate, and that's crap. So we mapped out a proper sales process when to send a content to value. You know what that might be top three ways to choose your next project manager. You're not direct selling, it's just I'm here, I'm frequent in mind, I can add value to you in different ways. Um, so the structure that gives you and then having the process to follow it takes a lot of the guessing, work out the way you know what you need to be doing and then it's just down to you to do it.
Speaker 2:And I think a big thing about if someone's in an agency and I say this now because I was kind of in that point myself there was a bit of resistance from getting external training because it was like, oh, but we're the biggest agency, you know we've got the best training. So there was a bit of hesitation for them to kind of not allow me to do it but to encourage me to do it. So probably when I shit, you're right. Yeah, training's really good. Here I'll just keep doing that which everyone else is doing. So if you're serious about being better than everyone else or doing things differently to everyone else as well, I think an external training's probably a foolproof way to to make it happen for sure it's to make us scalable as well.
Speaker 1:When we decided, okay, we do want to grow, build a team, and you sit down and go well, what is your sales process and all? We don't know, because we just do what we've always done, like we just know how to recruit, that's brilliant. But how can you apply that for someone new coming into the business, whether they're from a recruitment background or not? You need a blueprint or a framework which allows you to expand. Um, so that was a massive one for us and it was. It was hectic, it was full-on when we were implementing all of that. But then, once it's done, to then bring the guys in and go okay, here's our framework. This is how we do things. We still pay the guys at swish on a week, a weekly basis, to do three live sessions with our team. So it's like it's just what can we outsource to free up our time as well hey, that pays massive dividends, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:and like, obviously, your success on the from a numbers standpoint, uh is is proof of that. You know, I don't know what the roi is, you know dollar in, dollar out for the coaching and the training, but it's got to be a massive roi, huge but even the way we're doing it.
Speaker 2:I think that's most important to me. When you reach that certain point where you go, great, we've done well there, it's how you're doing it. If we were slaving here 90 hours a week and just beating people up to hire people from us, it wouldn't feel anything like it does. You wouldn't?
Speaker 4:be posting the videos you are. You wouldn't be doing this Mate.
Speaker 3:It's hard to get in front of the camera and post videos online when you don't feel like your best version of yourself. I'm sure if you have like a down week and you like have no energy, no momentum and you're kicking stones, you're not jumping on a video like, hey, we're recruiting, let's go. So just seeing the sheer volume of activity that you guys have online really goes to show that you guys are in good flow, you've got good momentum and things are really starting to build quite significantly. So you've got four people, four full-timers now at the moment. Have you got any VAs or what's like the structure of the business at the moment?
Speaker 2:We did. We had a VA for a while. We were probably too early on in our journey to bring someone on. We didn't have the time or probably the knowledge of how to utilize one best.
Speaker 2:So then we kind of decided to part ways, I guess, and go next. High is going to be someone here who we can really train, keep an eye on, understand what they're doing as well. Um, we're not natural people managers. Well, I'm definitely not half, probably half in half out, so it's, it's an energy for me to spend, to do that on someone. So, without knowing the return, I think that dominant personality. So I'm knowing, okay, I'm going to do this two hours here because you're going to do this, this and this. I need to see the results from them, learning it and getting it and putting it into practice to keep more energy to go again.
Speaker 4:Yeah nice, which I think is the struggle with the VA. Yeah, I've experienced that.
Speaker 3:So you've got four now, including you two. You've got another two coming on 1 July.
Speaker 2:So one and a half. Well, I say one. We've got another meeting later today which we can hopefully get contracts done, so that'll be cool. That'll be the second one, really. So, as in like one's locked in for July, she'll be the second.
Speaker 3:Oh, nice as well, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're bulking out the areas. We've got, obviously, andy and join me in the finance space, so we'll be able to give us more coverage with roles, resources, geographical locations as well, and then we've got one that will join Adam in the construction space as well. So at the moment, just really bulking up what we're already good at. And then the next step is probably and it's person dependent, it's okay do we look at doing another specialism like a hr or an it um, where, again, it's person dependent because we don't have expertise in that area. So we need to be completely sure that we're bringing someone in that has that network um and can effectively build it out themselves within the framework that we've created right.
Speaker 4:That's awesome, and you traditionally started off as perm recruiters, both of you, and now you've got a temp labor hire business that's building quite solidly in the construction market across southeast queensland. What's um? What have you learned from that? Are you involved in much or is that just probably quite lucky and he's an?
Speaker 2:absolute freak. He's so good at his job.
Speaker 2:But I'm happy to I say it to him all the time and he's the best labor hire recruiter I know I've ever met and I see out there as well. For sure, he's so good at what he does, so I've probably been quite lucky where he's come in and just hit the ground running. He's like this is what I need to do, I need this, this and this from you guys and me and Harv's like yep, here you go, mate, on you go, and him and Chloe having worked together so closely as well.
Speaker 3:Okay. So if there are any recruiters out there that are interested to find out what it's like to have a VA, support them in their role whether that be to bill more, reduce tasks that they don't enjoy doing or be a more effective recruiter in their niche then we definitely recommend reaching out to the outsource people or top. Reach out to them, inquire on how they can implement a VA in your agency and to support you. And if you mention ex-recruiter or confessions of a recruiter, they will give you a 13% discount off your bill per month on this VA. That will allow you to scale your business, scale your desk and to bill more and make more money. So go, reach out to the outsourced people, say Confession, sent you, get your discount and see what is possible.
Speaker 3:What gave you the green light to hire? Because a lot of conversations we have with recruiters is they don't know what signals to look at to justify putting someone on. So you've obviously started your business. It was just going to be you two. Then, all of a sudden, you've got staff that you weren't intending to put on. Like what is your framework around hiring people? Is it money in the bank? Is it once you've done a good quarter Is it, once you've got enough running expenses in your business. What are you guys looking? Oh, you're just opportunistic and you go fuck. There's someone really good here. Let's just, you know, bite the bullet. What's the method to the madness and the scale Bit of everything, mate.
Speaker 1:Obviously we had a great start, so we had the money there to be able to go and do it. I don't think you want to early on as a business. You've got to be very careful there, person dependent. We know that they're both great operators in the space. They've worked together before and that was probably a massive part of the decision to bring them in, because again, we go, okay, these guys can come in, come into the framework, give them everything they need, and then they don't really use up much of our time. Um, so that was, that was a massive one as well opportunity cost as well.
Speaker 2:I know we've just been me and harv and standalone in our desks. There's jobs that potentially come in or clients, and we're trying to move to a different kind of model, to put it in that way, where we do all the recruitment for certain clients. So we've obviously got a foot in the door by doing really well at finance, really well at construction, and then they've gone oh hey, can you try this? And we go yeah, we can, we'll do that, we've done a good job. So now we're sitting down and saying, okay, you know, we can fill jobs across multiple areas of your business. Let's become your go-to. And if there's an it job that we don't do, obviously we can refer that out and pass that on. But then seeing the jobs that potentially we could have filled but purely time me or house didn't have the capability to fill, imagine if we had someone else with us.
Speaker 2:Imagine if we had two in finance.
Speaker 3:We could absolutely so you're just getting jobs on galore and you're like, jeez, if we had another person sitting here, we'd be able to actually capitalize on all this inflow of business yeah absolutely I've been approached about hr roles, which we've done and we filled.
Speaker 1:So I think when you get a few we've done sales roles so when you get a few runs on the board in that space, it just unlocks your mind and you're thinking, okay, what else is out there?
Speaker 4:but I remember in your bedroom that was not the case you guys were fucking almost in silos. He was upstairs adam was downstairs.
Speaker 2:I'm like why don't you guys were fucking almost in silos he was upstairs, adam was downstairs.
Speaker 4:I'm like, why don't you guys do all these roles? Oh no, you guys construction. I do accounting and finance. So it's awesome, that's fucking switched.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That's really good, because then-.
Speaker 3:Hang on a second. Can you give me some context on that mate? So they were so you're at their place.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I remember it vividly. You're three months in and there wasn't so much cross-collaboration.
Speaker 3:Oh, you were sitting in different rooms so I'd be in the downstairs office in the lounge.
Speaker 2:Harv's would be in my spare room with the Harlow Whiteboardies looking out the window with a double bed behind him. Murphy's running around.
Speaker 3:What's the point in working in the same location if you're not sitting together? Probably focus. Hey mate, you want to come over here and sit at the other end of the room?
Speaker 1:yeah I'm one of those weird people that can't work from home, so you know, driving to adams was me, driving to the office is that me in that mindset, okay, I'm off to work. Um, but again it's good because we say we're sat in different rooms, but you're only upstairs or downstairs mate.
Speaker 4:It was like they were sitting next to each other with how loud they'd be.
Speaker 2:That was. Oh, hopefully in 10 years time we're still kicking and we're massive and we're huge. I'll never forget that six months working at mine just having an absolute crack, proper kitchen table. That is so good Filling huge jobs, speaking to general managers, directors of huge companies, and I'm sat in the kitchen with my dog running around my feet.
Speaker 1:We're honest with that. We tell our clients that and I think that's part of why they love it as well. Just because we're quite vulnerable. We're quite honest. Um, people just want to work with good people. Take off this robotic salesperson, just be yourself, and that's when you enjoy it and you feel more fulfilled authenticity amazing, yeah yeah, see, that's another thing I think you guys posted about that I really resonated with was around.
Speaker 3:you're working at your previous agency. You've got to put a mask on because you're representing another business and you probably don't build a relation. I think it was I can't remember who posted it but you weren't building authentic relationships because it was just a job. But now you've got your own business, you're actually able to be who you really are a bit of tongue-in-cheek, a bit of fun, some smiles and build those authentic relationships and it's obviously paying massive dividends now.
Speaker 2:And I think it just means the type of people who wouldn't want to work with us, don't? So then we're only working with people who are either like us or at least understand what we're about and that we think we can do a decent job. So the conversations you're having are just speaking like this. You're not putting on the salesy voice or the receptionist voice. Do you say?
Speaker 3:no to jobs much, yeah, are you saying no to people? I don't know what it was like at Hayes.
Speaker 4:You're saying no to people in your first 12 months. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, within reason. I had people in your first 12 months. That's awesome. Yeah, Within within reason. Um had an example probably a month ago. Someone I'd known for a long time came to me. You know, wanted me to help with a, with a finance role. They'd already gone to a couple of local recruiters in the area Um, I think they were offering them 10%. So, okay, Do you know what? If they'll go and offer you the entire service and the level of quality that we can for 10, I don't think you need us and, just being honest, and I think that what was the response?
Speaker 1:yeah, fair enough, mate, really appreciate your honesty. Um, I think that goes down. That goes so far with these guys. And I even said to him look, if you've had no luck in a couple of weeks, circle back round. That's absolutely fine. But we've got to value what we do, because we do live, we breathe it like it means so much to us.
Speaker 4:We've got to make sure that we're working in the right context do you know you saying that as a first-time business owner, nine months in business, not many people in this country could ever do having self-worth in your first 12 months to say everything you just said? Most people would be mate. Even you know people 20 years in business that are still scrapping one-man bands wouldn't have the self-confidence or self-value to be able to say that. I know you probably don't appreciate that right now or know the weight of that, but I'm getting goosebumps talking about it because if you're starting at this level now, five, ten years is really do you?
Speaker 3:agree. Yeah, 100. Like generally, the first 12 months of any business owner is definitely a scarcity mindset. It's whatever job I get, I'm just going to fill it for a 2K flat, for a 5K flat, whatever it is. Don't knock back any business because we need the money coming in the door. But to see you guys essentially at a maturity level of maybe a five or a six-year business owner, having those conversations in your first 12 months is super, super impressive. I don't know if you guys have thought about that.
Speaker 2:You're impressive, and then the other day when you're not feeling too confident.
Speaker 2:are we naive, you know, because you never know what's around the corner. But I think the overarching feeling is we know what we want to be about and, as much as it might be great to have an extra bit of money in the bank, would that opportunity cost at the time? Spent filling a tough job or a job that's not going to work out better, spent chasing the kind of people you want to work with or filling jobs with the good clients who that's what I mean, mate.
Speaker 1:You guys have skipped like 10 steps yeah, I think, doing the right thing by the client and the people as well. Like, if you're Business Owner and you've got a recruitment company offering you a 10% fee for the same service and same level of candidate that I can only offer you 15% for, go and take the cheaper rate, mate. Like, if they genuinely will give you the exact same outcome, why would you go and pay an extra four, five, 6%.
Speaker 4:No, but if it was me, I would have gone. Yeah, matt, I'll fill it for 8%. You know, what I mean. They're 10, I'm 9. I'm 9.
Speaker 1:The little fish are as good as the big ones.
Speaker 4:That's what Jimmy says but, mate, that is genuinely most people's approach to business. So, yeah, that's what I'm excited to see and that's why you've got the team following you, the team growing the presence. Tell us about the end. Is that a surprise or is that a no? It's all good.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I don't know where it kind of came from, but we've booked a big 12, better down in Byron, kind of in the hinterland, and the idea was at the end of financial year we're turning one. It's a great little way to sneak that in a bit of an event. But also we've got a team of six. Then how do we set the year up to really kick on? Now we'll be a year in. We've done a lot of the business setup, so that's out the way we can focus a bit more and get the team you know build a bit of chemistry, get one together. We've got a half day workshop in the morning on the monday for a bit of kind of performance coaching and then hopefully we can get the chief growth officer from mexico down for the afternoon again to help with that strategy side of it. You know we'll have kind of family dinners together at night and really just go. This is a business you can be proud to work for, like we give a shit.
Speaker 3:Fucking love that.
Speaker 2:We want to see you do well. It's not about maximizing, getting every last cent out of everything we do. You know there's a certain level where and actually a little bit of money doesn't make any difference. So what if we actually use that to make the people a bit happier, feel like they're as much in it as we are? You know that's going to be ROI and that's, right on the bottom, huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we'll get the partners there, so it will feel like a big you know a big community, a big family. I'm keen, as the place is sick, oh mate.
Speaker 2:We're not these high-mighty people doing to doing this for everyone, we will do it for ourselves as well.
Speaker 3:We want to be in byron. Yeah, yeah and that's, that's the beauty of being a business owner and loving what you do that's the beauty of being a successful business owner yes, a successful business owner.
Speaker 3:Sorry I forgot to add that in um, but you know you. You can then like, like, mix your personal desires in with business and kind of wrap it all up together and get even more excitement and fulfillment. Like what's better than going? I want to go to Byron for a little bit. Let's just take the whole team, make it productive, make it inclusive for everyone to get some value out of it, and it'll further accelerate and double down on the success of the business. It's just a bit of a no-brainer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we're quite generous as well. Neither of us came from money. We both came from a working-class background in poorer areas of England. So I think now, when we can help people and kind of bring them along for the journey, that's what we really want to do.
Speaker 4:And you're sponsoring your football team Brody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's this? So I've got a lovely advertising board up at Broadbeach, which for me is a massive full circle moment. Like I rocked up to Australia I was 19. All I ever done was play football. I was a bit of an idiot. That is awesome. Have you got any pickies on this, I can get some sort of yeah. So, now I'm kind of coming back. I've played for a couple of different clubs in between, now coming back, sponsor the club and get our name there, that is awesome.
Speaker 4:That was a goosebump moment. The king is back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was mental how good.
Speaker 1:We've got a charity partner as well, called SOP, serving our people. Great charity here on the Gold Coast they're Australia's fastest growing charity, so we've got them aboard as well which is sat right next to the Harwell one. So again, that's just that reflection moment of doing good for the club and then also trying to do a bit of good for the community as well, the local people.
Speaker 4:Boys nine months.
Speaker 3:So how far in the future are you guys thinking right now? Are you thinking one year ahead, one quarter ahead, five years ahead? What's the actual time horizons? Now, you know, stepping into your own, what are the time horizons you're starting to consider?
Speaker 2:For me Christmas, because I think we know we've got the team coming in in July. Then we want six months of button down, get everyone pumping up and running and then I'm sure we'll sit down again and go great, hopefully that's working. Do we stay as we are? Do we get more in? Do we do new sectors? That's probably the business, short term, I'd say. And then the longer term one is you know, great, we want Harwell Consulting to be, you know, the leader for the next 10 decades, whatever it might be. What other areas can we expand into, develop into, whether that's commercial property, whether that's the Harwell Foundation, which kind of links back into the 7-Up, nice, yeah, the World's Ever Oyster.
Speaker 3:Mate big plans.
Speaker 1:And it's just making sure that we've got the medium, short, long-term goals, but I think making sure that the short-term goals are kind of manufactured to get us towards those long-term goals. So, like I said, the long-term goal is Harwell being, you know, leading recruitment agency on the Gold Coast or Queensland. But until we get this team bedded in in the next six months and pumping, that long-term goal is not going to happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and it's. It's a bit of an art to trying to trying to get staff in, get them pumped up, do your own billings. Like that's pretty tough, you know, being a billing manager, which you both are essentially on top of being a business owner, it's not an easy gig. So you need a lot of energy and a lot of art to make sure that everyone is feeling good and it's not too robotic, as you say, with your end-of-year events, all that kind of stuff. I think that's going to go a long way. I'm interested to know about your next merch cycle. What's the next? Obviously, if anyone can see right now I'm I'm looking like this for a reason, because I'm representing the boys with this bucket heart, harwell bucket hat but what's the next? Like what do you call it in fashion Season Season? What's the next Harwell season of merch? Yeah, winter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's coming soon. So Ringers Western are kind of main, well key, supplier who we do a lot of work with that. They've been awesome, massive help for us in terms of ideas and what to do. So we're kind of working through what the next one looks like. I'm just going to have to get more in now with more stuff. The dollars are stacking up, but Harwell tracksuit.
Speaker 4:Harwell trackies. Goldie, I don't think you need a tracksuit.
Speaker 2:I think gym shirts is one you definitely want to get some kind of gym shirts. You know, like the I don't know how to word it, so you have to kind of Harwell and then consult when you find one and it'll be established 2023, you know that kind of style. Yeah, nice, that's what we see new logos. I think we've developed now from the stiff h slash c. Now we can actually do cool logos which at the time we didn't know we could do.
Speaker 3:You can do anything, mate.
Speaker 1:That's the thing, hey, maybe the next pod, we'll just be selling t-shirts and the recruitment will be done okay.
Speaker 3:So, um, you've got an end of financial year uh event with the team and then you're just head down, bum up. For the rest of the year there's no more hires.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so after July, hopefully that'll be us. Oh, saying that Potentially is one more. That'll be more of a support role, working across three different businesses. She wants to learn to be a consultant, so for her it would be an awesome kind of apprenticeship to learn lab hire, learn construction, learn finance and then wherever the business kind of takes her and wherever she wants to go, we can look to put her through down the track as well. So that'll be it. Seven is the magic number. Get to Christmas, take stock.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you've got to make sure you reflect on what you've achieved too, because when you're in the thick of building a business, going hard, trying to grow something of yours Like Declan and I sometimes sit back and like we don't take stock very often. But then we look back at where we were 12 months ago, two years ago, five years ago. We go, holy shit, we've actually done a little bit more than we. You know, you always feel like you can do a little bit more, but taking stock is really, really important. And looking back and going, holy shit, look at our first 12 months in business.
Speaker 3:If Taking stock is really, really important. And looking back and going holy shit, look at our first 12 months in business. If this is our first 12 months, imagine where we're going to be in 10 years.
Speaker 2:You'll be on the. Is it Palmy on the beach? Is it Palm Beach? Oh yeah, Well, it's everywhere, isn't it Miami? The big houses.
Speaker 3:What are those big houses right on the beach that you can just walk off your house and Edges?
Speaker 4:house and in edges like hedges have. Yeah, that's where you'll be. Boys need a bigger office.
Speaker 3:That'll be the office. That'll be it. Yeah, well, that'll be the real work from home we're scared to think about.
Speaker 2:But I think the way we're both wired is we don't want to get caught up in that too much. We don't want to lose the hunger yeah, there's a fight, lose the passion because look, we've, it's been nine months being humble you can all disappear, disappear so quick, you never know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2:So I think we just want to keep kicking and keep pushing and use the success to drive more hard work, more growth and just hopefully like you boys say all the time just that compounding effect of just doing more you haven't experienced it.
Speaker 4:You do know that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you don't know a compounding yet. Give it like year two and year three and you guys will be like holy fuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know what those dickheads were talking about. Yeah, I think one of the best decisions we made was to pay ourselves, I guess, a salary that was within probably 10% of the salary we earned in our previous agency, because, for me, that's just kept us so hungry. It's very easy to step into your own agency. You could potentially 4X your income. The invoices start flying through the door. Um, you know you're throwing money here, there and everywhere, but I think doing that has kept us humble, kept us hungry, to kind of keep working hard and keep the volume high, which has then allowed us to kind of go on this growth journey. Um, I think that's something we're both quite keen to to keep true for the next few years at least and can we break, break down.
Speaker 4:I know you guys spoke about, like the Harwell way, your sales process. You know there's a lot of recruiters that listen to this that would love to be able to even think of the idea of emulating what you guys have done. What would you say had been the critical drivers that you guys have implemented in your sales process, your client acquisition strategy or just overall how it all works? That's sort of the the harwell way. That's been different, as opposed to just ripping the phones and you know, I still remember that photo of you guys standing there on the balcony with crystals.
Speaker 4:Look, scared shitless yeah, so now look at yours now. But well, okay, how is what's changed from you know those two guys back then to to how you know this whole picture gets painted now?
Speaker 1:I think it's the level and the depth that you do with your initial discovery, whether that's with a client or whether that's with a candidate, and it's probably the you know the risk of actually saying to people. You know what. You probably don't need our help. Do you actually need to be, you know, be moving roles? If salary is your only motivator, why don't you go and have that conversation with your current employer? That's been a massive one. I think is just finding the real why that someone needs help.
Speaker 4:How do you get that? Like what probing questions are you asking?
Speaker 1:What are their pain points? What have they done before? I'm just really trying to unearth the real objection.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess what I'm hearing is you're all taking out your own personal interests and you're going.
Speaker 3:You know what doesn't matter about me, I'm just going to figure out what the goal is with this guy and see if I can genuinely help him and provide a good service. And by taking out your own personal interest you're not like sitting there going, oh, where am I going to place this guy, or if I can convince him this or convince him that, or tell him that he's employer shit for you know, underpaying him and and getting disgruntled, and so I can take him. You're more just like hey, mate, look, yeah, if, if it's just money, mate, just go have a conversation and yeah, there's nothing in it for you short term, but long term, that's where you guys are going to build your credibility. Um, and your authority on the gold coast is like oh no, go speak to harwell. Like they're not going to sit there and try and jam you into a role. They're going to actually help unblock your mind and clear your mind on what your next best step actually is, rather than just trying to get a deal out of you.
Speaker 2:I think, going back to Dec's point about some of the top tips we've had is probably ask a fair bit of people, ask them for their time, ask them for information, because then if they're not going to give you that, why are we going to go and spend 20, 30 hours finding them a job, recruiting the role for them, if you can't give me an hour or two to sit down, have a good meeting, work out the company culture, documenting that, what are the role responsibilities, what are the challenges? What success in 12 months for this person if you can't get that level of detail from them? How serious are they? And if someone can go and fill the job with the perfect person at eight percent, ten percent, without doing that, great. But we believe even if we lose out on that one client or that one job, the next one who we do get that detail from there'll be a client for life. And we've had a massive um bit of feedback from the job briefs that we put together. So we put a two, three page document. Okay, you need a project manager for bob the builder.
Speaker 2:This is the company overview. This is the projects they do, systems, team structure for the projects, role, duties, responsibilities, the package on offer, the benefits, and that comes in a nice branded hardware document. So it's not just a hey mate, do you want a pm job? And he goes yeah, chuck me across it's now. Have a look at the pd. Is there anything in there you're not too sure on we can help with? And this is ideally over a coffee as well. So the level of detail we get at the front end then shows the candidate shit. These guys are serious, they're not mucking about. There's no grey area here. I can't go. Oh, but I thought it was in Brisbane. No, mate, the document quite clearly states it's on the Gold Coast or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1:And then the commitment you get from the candidate because they feel you're more committed to them, then makes it way easier at the back end as well. Like it's been a bit of a cheat code. Yeah, it's, it's just a non-negotiable. Do not cut corners. It's so easy in recruitment when, like ad said, you got the perfect guy for the perfect role, that says, chuck me across. Now he's still got to run a full process with him because, again, you don't want to risk wasting your time, their time, the client's time, because it's great, it's amazing, I've got this perfect guy but you waste a week, whereas if you'd have done your full discovery and your full process on day one.
Speaker 1:You'd have realised it wasn't going to work, and then you've just got six days back within that process, which sometimes a day can be the difference between in the job or not.
Speaker 2:And we've all done it. We've all done that little quick week. You haven't got a full CV or haven't met them. I'll just send them across. Every single time they let you down, whether it's their fault or not. They either take a counter offer, they take a different job that you didn't know they had coming because you hadn't done a proper discovery. They start the job and fall out in a couple of weeks. Or on the flip side, you know, the client pulls a job, fills it internally, does something else. Whenever you try and take the piss and cut the corner recruitment, gods just go. Yeah, got you, mate, got you you fucked up here.
Speaker 3:So walk me through how that happens. So let's say, for example, you've got a brief from the client. You've done a big discovery. You know exactly what they're looking for their projects For Bob the Builder the example you just gave and you find the perfect guy and he goes yeah, just chuck me across. What do you say? You go whoa, whoa, whoa, he's up, let's go for a coffee. I want to sit down, I want to have a proper conversation with you. And then we go through the brief together and he goes oh mate, I've already read it, I'm them down a little bit, or?
Speaker 3:yeah, for sure, and that's very counterintuitive in recruitment because, like, if you're ready to send someone off speed to market, you send them off. Like that's what a lot of people get taught not to slow it down and go meet someone before sending them across we do a bit of work in brisbane now so it's not easy to go for coffee everyone.
Speaker 2:So a lot of teams calls and I think a team's call, honestly, even if it's 20 minutes and they're on their phone in the car, I still take that and hold a lot of weight to that, because they've gone into the car, they've gone off site, they've clicked on the link. Sounds pretty straightforward, right, but if you're busy, people don't want to do it and then you can go. Okay, I've got you on the phone now on a FaceTime call or whatever it might be. On the brief, actually, a couple of curly ones here. Mate, you were there for six months and six months I had a sickness I need to sort out. Great, now I understand. I can deal with that when I'm speaking to the client. Just that commitment.
Speaker 2:The whole time 20 minutes on a Teams call or FaceTime. If you're serious, it's not hard.
Speaker 1:And it's just discovering the real why. Because it's easy to match your experience to the job description. People don't pay you a 20K fee to do that. For me it's kind of unearthing the real drivers of why they're looking for a new move, whether that's culture, whatever it might be and it's impossible to do that from a quick hey mate, this is the job. Brief, what your thoughts? Yeah, throw me across. No, we need to speak about what do you look for in management styles, cultures, and make sure that we're aligning that with the company. That's where we feel the real magic is. Um, it's easy to fire people around the market. It's okay, let's find you a real fit that hopefully you don't speak to me for another five years unless you want to recruit in your team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a golden nugget as well. A lot of people we place if they're not in that direct role, they're going into hiring managers. They're only kind of one away. So in a couple of years if they stay there, I hope they stay there and they step up. Hopefully they understand the level of detail we've gone into with them and go well, I want that detail with my next hire Compounding.
Speaker 3:So you didn't used to do this at Hayes. This is a new thing for Harwell.
Speaker 2:The job brief 100%.
Speaker 3:The level of detail.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, the questions you're asking as well.
Speaker 3:So if we compare the last nine months of harwell to the last nine months of hayes is are you noticing much more buy-in from candidates, much less drop-offs, like what is the actual outcomes of doing this in-depth analysis with these candidates?
Speaker 2:the replacement rate. I don't know what the actual stat is at the moment, but it's very, very good. A lot of the placements we've made are still there and going really well and the ones that haven't or the one that hasn't, so far we've kind of gone great. Understand why, got a great result sorted. So it's not been a negative kind of outcome.
Speaker 3:Are you getting less like fallovers in offer stage?
Speaker 2:For the most part. Yes, it still happens. Right, it's the way it is, especially at the moment. But, um, we understand why it happens. Put it that way. If it does, it's something that they would have spoke about early doors. Potentially, this could happen.
Speaker 3:It's not a surprise yeah, it's not a surprise gotcha. Yeah, so okay. So everything makes a lot more sense. It's not like you're sitting there and a fall over happens and you're like, why the fuck did that? How did this happen? It's like, oh, this is the one thing that I thought could happen, did happen and then they mentioned it right, or we've got it out of them.
Speaker 2:They said actually my husband might get a job in sydney, whatever it might be. If that happens, I've got to pull out. And then we shout out to the client as well, and even in the probably another top trip, when we're sending email calendar invites to set up an interview. So, so, bob the Builder's interviewing a project manager, we do a joint calendar invite which is from Loxo, to be fair, and that blew our minds, didn't it?
Speaker 2:Because then, say, the person wants to not show up for the interview, they're not letting us down well, they are, but they're letting Bob the Builder down as well, because they're all accepted on the same invite. Just that little 1% is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's no like oh, I thought it was this time. It's like no, no, no, Everyone had the same time in the diary. So, yeah, that's one thing that I thought was a game changer. When I started doing it, too, my initial reaction was like oh, we're going to get the key into these details. Scarcity, right, yeah, yeah yeah, but now it's just like, no, like let's just all try and make this work together and have the abundancy mindset and it just pays massive dividends.
Speaker 1:And it goes back to that relationship right, if that's a client that you genuinely have got an in-depth, solid relationship with, they're not going to go behind your back and get this guy in three months they're going to tell you they give you the name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey, go get this guy, yeah I thought of one when I was driving in this morning. Going back to your question about kind of, I guess, that level of commitment or relationship with clients, we hardly ever get asked to discount our fees. Now it's almost like they feel like when it's coming into our pockets. As a small business, local business on the coast, you send through fees. We've got, obviously, a couple of different package options exclusive, retained, non-exclusive.
Speaker 3:And they'll just pick the package rather than go mate. Can I have a?
Speaker 2:big discount on this. Yeah, that's the one massive shift I've seen. In particular, it's the harwell way. Do you think it's?
Speaker 3:we're just clipping full tickets on the way through, baby. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, no, but like, do you think that is that? There's two? There could be two things there. You're, you're, you're framing it from a clients want to support you, um kind of position, and so they're not like trying to screw down the little guy, which is definitely part of it. But the second part of it is probably you're just operating at such a high level that demands, um, that type of fee structure like they go. No, I understand, I'm working with the director of an agency. They've got a tight process. They're spending the time. I'm not dealing with some you know 12 month rookie recruiter who you know is just trying to get a deal on the board. So I think there's two, two aspects of that which um give you that authority to be like. No, these are the fees like and, and to be fair, it's probably extremely good value at the fees that you're already charging.
Speaker 1:Uh, to begin with, yeah, we, we know where the market's at and we're not trying to screw people over and ask for ridiculously high fees and we don't have a sliding scale. It's, these are the three packages. This is a flat fee for that package. Um, you know we're not going to go trial. You're a new client. I'm going to go and try and get you three or four percent higher than some of my other guys. It's just presenting and being honest. These are the packages. You know which one would you like to run with?
Speaker 2:and the numbers that we've. We know there's value in them, you know. So it's not like we've asked for 20 and they've asked for a discount we've got. Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably not worth 20 is it.
Speaker 1:You know the numbers we've got on there we go now the work we do.
Speaker 2:This is a while.
Speaker 1:We put the numbers on there, yeah, um, so that probably gives you another level of confidence to handle those kind of issues and objections as well but it's the belief as well when someone you know on the times where someone does ask for a discount or something too low, it's the belief to go actually, no, sorry yeah, what was the change like with chloe and and andy?
Speaker 4:because the the change now will happen again in. I think it's really important, for when new people join businesses, it's not like, oh, this is how I've always done it. It's like, no mate, that's got to go out the window. This is the Harwell way, the XR way, the blended way. Did they just have automatic buy-in or were they like, oh shit, this is such a big process to go through.
Speaker 3:Any resistance yeah.
Speaker 2:Opposite. To be honest, I think think they've seen, because obviously we work with them, hey as well. So they saw what we were like there, and then they've come into how well see what we're like now and gone shit. I'd actually rather be like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, we're lucky, quite lucky, with those two. I think, yeah, we're quite interactive with our processes as well. Again, we're quite honest. We've been in business less than a year. We don't know everything. We've probably scratched the surface. So we try and it's behind. You know their strategy as well. We try and write the future together with their buy-in Cause. I think then the accountability is on those guys as well. But then we know that they're running a process that they believe in as well, and that's a good thing. When we were able to write our own sales process, it's so much easier to stick to it, not to cut corners, because you genuinely believe in it. You go this is something I've created, so genuinely believe in it. You know this is something I've created. Um, so yeah, by getting those guys involved in it.
Speaker 4:It's massive for them as well. Bloody oath. And what would you say to yourself 12 months ago, nine months ago, if you saw yourself on the road? Strap in?
Speaker 2:strap in any advice. If you saw us on the actual road, you mean, or?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah, if you saw yourself you're chatting to, yeah, you bumped into yourselves from 12 months ago, what, what, and.
Speaker 3:And you're sitting on the fence and you're chatting to. Yeah, you bumped into yourselves from 12 months ago what, what, and.
Speaker 4:And you're sitting on the fence and you're like ah, not even sitting on the fence, like just someone. And what would you say to yourself? Just start how much your life could change yeah, I know it's so.
Speaker 2:People who haven't started yet they feel like everyone tells them to just start and we're the exact same, I think have people from influence are telling you that that's when it sticks, like we've had a couple of people who we really look up to in business go. Yeah, this is our plans, what we're going to do. What the fuck are you waiting for?
Speaker 1:all right, yeah yeah, I just what is the worst that can happen? You start. It doesn't work out. There's hundreds of other recruitment agencies that are all looking for staff. Yeah, you've tried it. Go back. It didn't work. It might work, but you don't like it. So you go back to agency like that's absolutely fine, but at least you can go. I tried it it's a fear of failure, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I think fear of failure is a big one of people looking at you as a failure I think, yeah, I'd struggle with that, for sure. Um, but then you think I flipped that by going well, if I give it absolutely everything and then it fails, it is what it is. What can you do?
Speaker 1:What did Jess Cameron say at the boot camp? It was when you're on your deathbed, you're not lying there going. Oh, thank God, I didn't take that risk there, Thank God.
Speaker 2:I didn't take that risk there.
Speaker 1:You're lying there kicking yourself going. Fuck what if yeah?
Speaker 3:yeah, and that's that's the biggest thing. Is um not taking those opportunities when they present themselves and going, fuck, I wish I just backed myself. I reckon that's a lot of um, that's a lot of the um animosity people have with themselves in 10 years, 15 years, when they look back and go, holy shit, like it's such a small decision, but at the time it felt really big. But if I just did it, my life could be completely different now and you two are embodying that change of just nine months ago you were recruiters at Hayes. Now you run your own business, you've got staff, you're kicking goals, you're going through these personal development journeys and you can just see the enthusiasm and the passion and the fun that you guys are having it. You can just see the enthusiasm and the passion and the fun that you guys are having. It's really, it's energetic.
Speaker 1:And you've got to get comfortable with making those decisions because, like you said, that's the smallest one. When you go into business and it does work and the stakes are high, you're going to have to make so many more of those difficult decisions. So if you're worried about making that one, maybe it's not for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally Well, mate, this has been an awesome potty. We appreciate volume two. Looking forward to volume three, though, in 12 months' time, the compounding effect of Well, we might get you an.
Speaker 2:R yes.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, let's talk about that. You guys are getting in the game. You can't say it yet.
Speaker 1:You can't say it yet. There's something coming.
Speaker 4:There's something coming.
Speaker 3:All right, well coming. All right, well, we'll. We'll do a media release with something coming when that comes. Thank you for joining us today, boys. It was awesome to seeing uh hearing sorry about uh everything you've been getting up to over the last nine months. What you've achieved, it's super uh super exciting and we can't wait to follow the journey for another 12 and look, just finishing, on the support from you both as well.
Speaker 2:Um, we definitely don't take it lightly. The level of interest and enthusiasm and I guess, the the mentorship we've had from the both of you. Um, we started out proper green in terms of business owners, didn't really have a clue and even the littlest questions. I might can have a copy of your terms of business, because I haven't got one great, whatever it might have been, or to the bigger questions.
Speaker 2:We're thinking about hiring this person. What do you think? And the 12 week investment that we, you know we speak through and even today, like the, the questions don't stop. They just change and get bigger and better, hopefully, and the two of you are always well good mates. Now put it that way right when we started, it was you were helping us set up a business, and now we're we're the best of mates and we're all on the journey together.
Speaker 3:That's what I love about it. That's it, yeah awesome, well done. Better together. Appreciate it, boys.
Speaker 4:It means a lot, you guys saying that. So thanks heaps La bosh. Love you, boys Bosh.
Speaker 3:Thanks for tuning in to another Confessions of a Recruiter podcast with Blake and Declan. We hope you enjoyed and got a lot of value and insights out of this episode. If you do have any questions or you would like to recommend someone to come on the Confessions podcast, we would love any introductions and remember the rule of the podcast, like share and recommend it to a friend. Until next time.