What drives someone to switch from a rugby league career to the world of recruitment?
Join us on Confessions of a Recruiter as we uncover the fascinating journey of Jack, co-founder of Yakka Solutions.
Jack narrates his unlikely transition from the rugby field to the recruitment desk, sharing the pivotal moments that shaped the last 12 months at his company.
The blue-collar labor hire industry is full of surprises, and Jack has no shortage of stories to tell. From dealing with digger operator mishaps to the sheer joy of receiving his first recruitment paycheck, Jack's experiences paint a vivid picture of the industry's highs and lows.
Starting a recruitment agency is no small feat, and Jack walks us through the critical decision-making processes he faced, like choosing between securing an investor or maintaining full ownership.
He candidly shares the emotional rollercoaster of financial highs and the subsequent stress of sustaining performance, all while juggling personal and professional growth.
The conversation wraps up with insights on running a business in a small town, highlighting the significance of community involvement and networking.
Tune in for an episode packed with valuable lessons, personal anecdotes, and a glimpse into the future ambitions of Yakka Solutions.
· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
What drives someone to switch from a rugby league career to the world of recruitment?
Join us on Confessions of a Recruiter as we uncover the fascinating journey of Jack, co-founder of Yakka Solutions.
Jack narrates his unlikely transition from the rugby field to the recruitment desk, sharing the pivotal moments that shaped the last 12 months at his company.
The blue-collar labor hire industry is full of surprises, and Jack has no shortage of stories to tell. From dealing with digger operator mishaps to the sheer joy of receiving his first recruitment paycheck, Jack's experiences paint a vivid picture of the industry's highs and lows.
Starting a recruitment agency is no small feat, and Jack walks us through the critical decision-making processes he faced, like choosing between securing an investor or maintaining full ownership.
He candidly shares the emotional rollercoaster of financial highs and the subsequent stress of sustaining performance, all while juggling personal and professional growth.
The conversation wraps up with insights on running a business in a small town, highlighting the significance of community involvement and networking.
Tune in for an episode packed with valuable lessons, personal anecdotes, and a glimpse into the future ambitions of Yakka Solutions.
· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
today I was on confessions of recruiter with blake and declan. We spoke about the last 12 months with yakka solutions and what it's been like, the highs and lows, and dropped some value bombs to deck.
Speaker 2:Thanks, guys, for having me thank you so much for your support of confessions so far. It's been an awesome journey. Today we go again and Big Jack, the king of parks, the better half or other half of Yakka Solutions and an XR partner, we are proud to have you on the pod, mate. Thanks for making the trip up.
Speaker 1:Thanks Declan, thanks Blake.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Confessions of a.
Speaker 3:Recruiter.
Speaker 1:Very exciting.
Speaker 3:We're excited that you're here, mate, because this has been a long time coming. It has. We've been wanting to get you on the pod for a while. Now you're here and you're going to share all of your insights, your value bombs. You're going to share your story Yep, because your story will probably resonate with a lot of recruiters. Yeah, okay, so I think maybe we start there.
Speaker 2:And inspire a lot of recruiters as well. But first things first mate. Look at these kits. We've got the Yakka Solution white pants and their trademark top.
Speaker 1:Thanks for putting them on, boys.
Speaker 2:Thanks for supplying mate.
Speaker 1:Mate, they look great.
Speaker 2:I'm not taking this off. We're all going to go to dinner the Savo and we're all going to be dressed the same Yep.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Work Locker and Park. They got them done in three days, did they?
Speaker 3:Yeah and mate, let's just have a special appreciation for the logo. Generally, we're in the business of making recruitment logos, but you've also got your better half. That's also actually in the business of making recruitment logos, because this is Tay, this is Tay's handy work.
Speaker 1:No, she did a really good job she absolutely nailed it yeah and really exciting news. Tay's been working at local council Like well. Obviously we have Eli as well, so she starts in the business properly at the end of this month, mate. So first year on my own really in that office to have Tay very exciting. Power couple. What's.
Speaker 3:Tay going to be doing.
Speaker 1:So Tay's going to start at the general recruitment 360.
Speaker 3:Oh, resourcing.
Speaker 1:And then she'll just I hope she deep dives into a desk one day, because I think she'd be really good at it. But it's obviously a partner you can't push too hard and you know she'll make her own decisions, but she'll do a really good job.
Speaker 3:I think she will too. She's got the personality for it. She's warming, she's easy to talk to, great conversationalist.
Speaker 1:A lot prettier face.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know she's probably better to look at than you mate. No offense, that's fair.
Speaker 1:Thank God, eli took after her.
Speaker 3:So, mate, I think that's going to be a huge success.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm really excited.
Speaker 2:Congrats, mate. So, mate, taking it back, I think, just to frame exactly, should we go back to how you fully got into recruitment the first time and then build from there, or the step of getting into your business?
Speaker 3:Yeah, why don't you give us like a two or three-minute rundown on I guess maybe even starting playing footy and then getting into recruitment, how you fell into recruitment and then what kind of motivated you to take that next step and start Yakka Solutions?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so left Parks when I was 18, played rugby league at a few different places up and down the east coast, ended up in Brisbane, was working as a teacher aid out at Woodridge State School In the school holidays, needed a bit of extra work and started doing some labour hire. And then was just lucky enough to meet one of the directors and someone else that worked in the business there and you know we were having a drive and they obviously saw something in me that I was a broken-down rugby league player, a little bit like they were, and said what do you want to do outside of it? And I had no idea. And on the way back Nige said to me he said you should ask Shane for a job. And I said don't you need a degree to be in recruitment? And he still gives me that to this day.
Speaker 1:So I asked Shane and maybe three weeks later someone left their civil and landscaping desk and threw me in the deep end. I said yes, actually they rang me while I was on site laboring for them and I left at midday because I was so excited to leave and they're like you kind of need to be on site for us all day, wow. So I let him down, so I kind of did a half a no-show for him. Started in the office and, mate, that was it. So I spent, yeah, a good five, six years there working on a few different desks, and then it was time to go out on our own.
Speaker 3:So Blue Collar Labor Hire is kind of your bread and butter. Yep, you did a few desks. What industries?
Speaker 1:So Industries. So I started civil and landscaping and then the commercial construction bloke left and he had a booming desk like it was 10, 11k a week and that was mine. So then like it was thrown in the deep end margins-wise you're cheering, but you had to learn pretty quickly and it was a lot of long nights and early mornings. Just you're constantly getting let down. But a really good way to learn and I think it's held me in good stead to then move into the perm stuff because you've just got that urgency and speed from what you learnt.
Speaker 2:What was the biggest learning experience?
Speaker 1:Were you just lucky, you were around a bunch of guys that had that energy and pace, or yeah, some really good people in that business that I'm still pretty close with, some really good lessons, just because it was kind of like getting haze training in a boutique agency because three or four of them were ex-haze, so like you got that activity like brought in, if you're not. I think when I took over the civil landscaping desk it was all the way back to about 500 bucks a week wow, and then I was basically starting from scratch pretty much, and then I think it got back to about 200 bucks for the week.
Speaker 1:And I said, what do I do? And they said, right, this is how you do it, just get on the phone. The more time you're on the phone, you're going to find someone else to call after that and just keep following it and that has held me in really good stead. It's probably held me back from being able to be really structured and follow a calendar, but it's also when I make that first call. It could lead to anything the next 10, 50 calls, whatever it is, I've got pretty good at following that lead.
Speaker 3:So it was really the mentality was just make a call, because that call will develop into another call.
Speaker 1:Yep essentially.
Speaker 3:Ask a question.
Speaker 1:I asked plenty of questions, especially early on. I had no idea about civil landscape and so I was like I had no idea about machinery or anything. And the first day, I think, a job got called in for a digger operator Like no idea. So, trawling through the database, um and the bloke, I got him, I got him the gig. So first my first placement was a no-show uh labourer. And then my second placement he's turned up on site about 5 50, so you know, 40 minutes early.
Speaker 1:I thought, beauty, like, check my phone, text the client saying he's on site early, he'll be there soon. I thought I'll go back to sleep like it's all sorted. I woke up about an hour later to about three or four different messages and it was like mate, where is the site toilet? The gates are locked, I can't hold on any longer. Maybe like 10 minutes between the next message, mate, I've had to head home. I've shit all through the car. I'm going to be, I'm not going to be there for the day. And I said, all right. I didn't believe him obviously. I said will you be right for tomorrow? I said it depends how long it takes me to clean the car Wow.
Speaker 1:And then that was my introduction to recruitment.
Speaker 3:Mate, and you thought fuck, I love this, I'm going to do this forever.
Speaker 1:I just got so excited because, like for every year, I was playing footy, I was doing odd jobs, and then I remember the boys offering me $45,000 salary and, as they told me, it was $45,000 plus. So I went, yes, thanks. And then mum and dad were like you're supposed to, like, try and get a little bit more money, like you?
Speaker 2:can't like Mate, I was the same. Yeah, it was the best feeling. Yeah, and it's I don't know recruitment. You can just feel like you're yourself, like you can add your own flair to things. There's no like strict, like I imagine. If you're in like an engineering job or something that's got like standards and routines, then it's holy shit.
Speaker 2:Maybe another guy's just done himself on on site. What was that one? That was alarm going, yeah, but um, I I think that's that's why I felt like got the the buzz out of it and and being able to really make it, make it your own from the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, essentially you get practice at running your own business with no risk yeah, you know what I?
Speaker 3:I felt the exact same as you. Same as deck. I came from a comm only role for a year and a half and I started on a 55 salary and I thought you fucking beauty, I don't even give a shit if I make comms or not. Yeah, I'm fucking living pretty at 55. We're almost talking a thousand bucks a week here and, um, it was like I felt like I hit the big leagues. And you know, looking back now, I don't know how far 55K gets you these days, but looking back like I felt like I had all of the room and breathing space to be able to just do a really good job because I had a great salary at the time. And so I think people coming from a high salary role trying to drop back into an entry-level recruitment job, they don't get that gratitude, whereas if you're coming from like really I guess, far below that type of salary, you can really make recruitment your own, because you've just come from a lower standard and getting into recruitment is such a big step up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly yeah, and like we had the best workplace culture there, like lunchtime soccer. We'd always train at lunchtime and then it became soccer, Like we were out on site all morning and then you know you're just making calls all the time, but it was just like I couldn't believe it was a job. Yeah. Just felt very lucky to be doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, still feel the same. Yeah, I still feel the same, yeah, okay, so did you at least get your third deal locked in, or?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it went all right. Maybe built that desk up to $2,500, $3,000 a week. That was only from July to January. Then the other bloke left, so it was essentially here's your stuff, as well as you know $10,000 or $11,000 of his margin. So it all 11k of his mud and so it went straight to like 14, 15k a week, wow.
Speaker 1:And then it just became about maintaining that because there was a hundred you know 100 people out every week or 100 new placements, because in the commercial construction a lot it's like some bloke might go to like three different sites for the week. So it's not so much like the hit and stick with you know the boys, age people or something and they might go attempt a perm. Like that's pretty rare, yeah, a lot of the time it's just like mate, I just need the site clean.
Speaker 2:And you did this all yourself, so Did you have any like admin support?
Speaker 1:No, we never had resources but they got us really good at doing everything but also being pretty good with your like spreadsheets and you know getting them across to accounts and then you know the accounts only just sat. You know a desk over that she'd be shouting out and you'd you'd got a pretty good relationship with working, you know how it kind of works.
Speaker 3:So I've never had uh, you know well, I think it's a benefit of having a resourcer, but it's been a good way to learn. Yeah, you know a lot of uh a lot of people when they first get into recruitment and they're either got a really strict, uh micromanagement type of boss they have to do the full 360 themselves and they get put into this like what you would traditionally call like the hardest parts of the job all at once. A lot of people get like this soft intro where they're a candidate manager, then they go to a consultant, then they get a resourcer for them and all this added support. Those people end up being less successful in the long run than the people that actually jump into a 360 role where they've just got to literally figure out how to do everything themselves and then all of a sudden they're equipped with the skills, the knowledge and the expertise to go oh great, I can actually run a business now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, essentially yeah, because I guess once you got out and you started running your own business, it didn't feel foreign as much as you got the support at the back end and that kind of stuff with you guys, that stuff that you never have any idea about, but the day-to-day running of the business, that didn't feel foreign.
Speaker 2:And mate, you were six years in temp labour hire so you built up all of that, but you'd never done a perm placement.
Speaker 1:No, I think I might have had a few go temp to perm, but like a genuine perm placement not really. So I did the commercial construction for four years and then I wanted to move back to parks around COVID. Me and Tay were going to head down and I actually went to finish up with the boys and another recruitment agency wanted to start an office down there through us, went to resign and one of the bosses said mate, we'll just set up an office for you and you can run the federal government desk. So I pretty much became like a client account manager for a really big government contract down in Melbourne and I was enjoying it, like you know. Essentially I think we went from five or six workers doing part-time work there to about 40 or 50 doing full-time hours. So like it was the dream little thing golden handcuffs, like good comms living in parks, it's not expensive and I probably could have done that forever.
Speaker 1:And then, like once we knew we were going to have Eli and I was a bit of a joke that you know I didn't work as hard as I should, which that didn't bother me. People you know were a bit envious of my job. But then, you know, once Eli was born, I was like I don't want to be that lazy dad. I just don't want him to grow up thinking that dad's lazy, at least he's having a crack. So Tay's like, yeah, righto, start the business after I get back from maternity leave, so we've got some money coming in. And I said, yeah, of course. Yep, just ticking over in my head for about a week I can't wait. So like I remember ringing the confessions of a recruiter hotline, leaving a voicemail and then hadn't heard from anyone for two days and you just were posting on LinkedIn, I said these blokes are full of shit, they don't ring you back.
Speaker 1:And then get a call from Blake saying actually Jack, you've run the hotline. No one actually rings this number.
Speaker 3:We only check it like every three days.
Speaker 1:And then that was the intro to you boys. Mate, that's so funny. How did you?
Speaker 1:find out about us, it was just linkedin posting. Yeah, I was like this is a pyramid scheme for sure, like it looks too good. And then, yeah, like you guys say every time, once you start having a yarn, work out how you make your money and how it works for us, the business is yours, like it was a no-brainer in the end. I think I probably sat on it for two or three weeks, yeah, and was pretty patient with me, like I remember even Blake, you reached out once and said like mate, if you want to ask me, like what I think as well you know if this other setup's good, because I think they both would have been good. There was another company that wanted to be like half owners, but it just didn't sit right with me thinking that I was giving half my business to someone just for them to pay me a bit of money. Like just go back to the wall and then if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but if it does, it's going to be the best thing we did.
Speaker 3:It's funny. We have this conversation with recruiters all the time that are thinking about setting up and usually the fork in the road when they've made the decision is do I get like an investor, to help me pay my salary for the first three months while I find my feet and then I'm up and running? Or do I just kind of go through ex-recruiter where I get to own 100% of my business, I get all the support, et cetera, and my general reaction most of the time is why would you give away 30, 40, 50% of your company that you're going to have for 10 plus years for the first three months?
Speaker 1:of income of your business. Just a little safety blanket, isn't it?
Speaker 3:It is man and like one, you would either just just save up a little bit more money If X recruiter isn't an option for you and just save up a bit more money than trying to get a loan out from someone and then half your business is gone and then all of a sudden you've got to report to that person. They're taking money off the top. There's so many new dimensions to running a business when you've got someone else involved that for the sake of the first three months of income, you may as well just like grit your teeth and get through it, and it's all yours, you know.
Speaker 1:I remember the other bloke saying to me like we'll pay you a really good salary and then you probably won't take any money out of business for, you know, the first three years. And I just thought what's the point? Like, yeah, to get the salary straight up, because then it's never really that fight or flight. I've got to make this work. Um, I think it's a no-brainer now for people to look at extracurricular and go to do it, because it's such a proven path. But we were pretty early. I think the only two people I could ring was Crystal and Jimmy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mate, what do we know? Like what number partner Jack is?
Speaker 1:Six. Yeah, I reckon I started working before a few because people were a little bit smarter than me and like actually took their time with it. You would Like everything, I like everything. I nearly resigned. And then I think it was like you boys were like we'll get it done as quick as we can, and I was like but can I start working on it? And you're like, yeah, if you want. So about a week later we had an office like a 12-month lease there.
Speaker 1:Just no patience that way. So Tay's been good for that because with the amount we've done, potentially could have done more if she didn't hold me back from some stuff. So I've got to be quite thankful that she does keep me patient sometimes, because I do get a bit excited.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what it's so funny. I remember hearing your voicemail and going like what was I doing? I was just prepping for the next um confessions podcast, yeah, and we've been pumping out this like call the hotline, blah, blah, blah, and we had a few people call the hotline but it kind of fizzled out. Yeah, no one really called it. And then then I just get this like this bloke like hey guys, yeah, just thinking about starting the agency, and I'm like, is this our first inbound phone inquiry for extra recruiter? And then I spoke to you and then I called deck straight after and I'm like, mate, just had a fucking conversation with this recruiter. He fucking called the confessions hotline and he's a fucking good bloke. And deck's like really I'm like, yeah, mate, he seems awesome, I think he's one of us. And he's like, oh well, let's fucking get him on a call.
Speaker 1:It felt like that early on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it felt easy yeah, that's and that's the best way to do it like it's got to feel easy, you know, and um, and it was just, it was an awesome moment because I think, even though maybe you were number six, I think you would have been, I think there would have been only two trading yeah, I reckon it was yeah, yeah because lisa started at the same time yep and um, I reckon there was yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because Lisa started at the same time Yep, and then there was already Jimmy and Crystal.
Speaker 1:Yep, and then it was pretty much like Because Nicole didn't start Harwell. Hp people.
Speaker 2:Fraser, they all started in July.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, it was like that, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you're actually like a full, proper OG. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, proper, og yeah, yeah, feel old now, yeah, and then you're like I remember it, he goes mate, dec, am I crazy for doing this, like this perm thing, like I've never done perm, I've only done labour hire.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh well, mate, if you're crazy enough to do it, we're crazy enough to do it with you and I think that was when we said let's give it a crack and bit of crack. And then originally we were going to be an it recruitment business. Yeah, because with the last two months my old company I said let's start a it recruitment desk in sydney. Give me a crack at it. I probably spent like two weeks on the phones and picked up a couple jobs. Didn't make any placements, but because I picked up a couple jobs real quick in a brand new industry, I thought, oh, this is time, like I can do it, so much money in it. And then I remember talking to you boys and they're like might be suited a bit more to that. Go back to construction and manufacturing. It's a bit easier. Like I would have had to change my approach with IT and I think it would have been a bit of a slow burn where you should jump on the phone and have a yarn.
Speaker 3:I think personality fit in what industry you're recruiting is really crucial to long-term success, and if you've got a mismatched personality to the desk that you're on, it's just not natural yeah.
Speaker 1:And not saying that you don't embody an IT person to me that's fair.
Speaker 3:So I thought you know what absolutely. You know construction Manufacturing, Manufacturing, Mining. You know construction Manufacturing, Manufacturing, Mining, Trades, mining, Like I think that you would be a duck to water to speaking to those candidates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it made sense, like in our area where we live in parks for those who don't know Central West New South Wales, it's like I think there's about 11 or 12 mines within three hours of us. We've only really scratched the surface there. The majority of minds within three hours of us. We've only really scratched the surface there. Majority of our work has actually been up here in Brisbane and we're just starting to get some good trust from some local businesses and that which is, it took probably nine to 10 months for people to think you know like they're still going to be around. Let's give them a go. There's been one other recruitment agency in parks forever. Let's just, you know, stick with them and then we're just slowly picking away at it.
Speaker 3:Walk me through that because that's a really good segue into starting Yakka. You started Yakka as a perm agency. You'd never done perm before in a regional town that I guess. Recruiters aren't plentiful, so there was a lot of recruitment that was actually interstate or out of town. So walk me through how you were able to build your desk, get new clients. What was that like for your first couple of months?
Speaker 1:They were pretty hairy. I remember being on the phone to yourselves a lot and just keeping consistent and just keep picking up the phone and ringing. I always go back to it and I think it happens with habits when you start going well as well as going bad, you can jump on emails and messages, but you can't make magic happen over an email. A phone call can lead to anything, so I just stuck to that. I remember saying to Dec a couple of times Dec actually gave me my first lead. Oh, really. So yeah, what did you give him?
Speaker 2:On track as an estimator Yep.
Speaker 3:Mate, you're still doing deals with them today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that was our first deal 12 months ago.
Speaker 2:They'll likely just come back to him though.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, that's what I saw, yeah, he only rang in the last couple of weeks and said he's got some stuff coming up and like I was going to catch up with these New South Wales sales rep and try and get him a couple of meetings with the minds around our area. So like he actually rang and said happy 12 months in business.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome. Never forget your first client.
Speaker 1:Nah, so it was pretty special, yeah. And then the next month, oh so that was two, two and a bit months before we did a deal. So that was pretty tough, Like not having the. The big thing for me was not having those instant wins like an instant win of a placement in labour, hire or temp.
Speaker 1:You can do it so quickly with perm. It's like to actually then build up the jobs and then have the candidate pool Like. It does take time and if I probably went in to not know and hey, you might not make a placement for a few months because you haven't been in this industry.
Speaker 1:You don't have any contacts you haven't done perm, like be a little bit patient, where, like mum and dad and Tay were like you know you're doing really well, you're always busy, you're always on the phone so it's going to come around and then we, yeah, did a deal, so we're pumped. I remember ringing deck and I think like it was like jory and sam in the background, jimmy lawn, like I never knew that the confetti went off when you went hired on our and then I mean how do I fill this out?
Speaker 1:and then the next month we did another deal, and then the next month we did three and I.
Speaker 1:then the next month we did three and I was like here we go, you're on, so we went up on a little trip up to the coast, little family holiday and you know, going out to dinner and lunch and really enjoying it. And then the three-month block hit black. And that was a really good lesson early on. Didn't build anything for the next two months, yep, and then essentially started it. It was like starting from scratch again, just getting that momentum. And then, yeah, we've been really consistent since November. So I certainly prefer those consistent months than those big peaks and troughs.
Speaker 3:Mate, I love the rawness of that first six-month journey. And to give some context on the three-month slump that you just spoke about, a lot of recruiters go through this three-month slump where, because they've got the hunger, the passion, the energy to make it work, they fucking light it up and then they get all these deals and you're like I'm fucking rich baby. And then you take yeah.
Speaker 3:You forget you've got a 10% income bass coming through that you've got to like pay out. But you know you make all this money and it's like mind-boggling, like what was it like having I don't know, was it 30, 40, 50 grand slapped into your account.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we did in the. So like officially we launched in maybe June, July, website-wise, but like I was working from the end of April and that I think it was August or something, we did like 50. So that was my best month ever in recruitment it was the third or fourth month. And it's for yourself. I know it's like how easy is this?
Speaker 2:I just walk into this office.
Speaker 1:I remember you saying You're not going back to work for maternity Baby.
Speaker 2:We made it. Yes, you're like heck, mate. If anyone knew what I was making in this little office, fucking hell, they'd be worried about town, or?
Speaker 1:something like that. I seriously felt like that. Yeah, like because you know a lot of my mates are tradies and running their own businesses, but they're like they're earning every dollar, which we still are, but it's just in a different way, and and the lump sums I guess was such a big difference to think that kind of money you could, but they're earning every dollar, which we still are, but it's just in a different way, and the lump sums I guess was such a big difference to think that kind of money you could make quickly. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you get 50K slapped in your account, you're high, you got the dopamine hit. You're like fucking, yes, this is what life is now. And then you take your foot off the gas and you're not as proactive and hungry as you was, because you know you've got all this, you're comfortable, you know you've finally done a few deals and then the three months lump kicks in and you fucking do donuts. Yeah, everyone not everyone, but like most people go through that psychological wave of ripping it, lighten it up, getting heaps of cash, taking the foot off the pedal and then having to start from scratch again because they just didn't anticipate the rollercoaster that happens when you first start an agency.
Speaker 1:And then even starting again, like for the ones that we built in November, say if any payments were late, like you're stressing, because Christmas is coming up and we were billing good money in November and December but you might not see a dollar to the other side of Christmas. So I can remember that being really hairy and being pretty stressed about that. Like you said, you just had I don't know years worth of lessons in six months and you felt like you.
Speaker 2:You learn more about yourself. You can't read any book. No, exactly right no book will tell you this Until you're in there, in the cauldron yourself, of business, there's nothing else that you'll learn more about yourself.
Speaker 3:It's a great humbler, isn't it Okay? So if there are any recruiters out there that are interested to find out what it's like to have a VA support them in their role whether that be to bill more, reduce tasks that they don't enjoy doing or be a more effective recruiter in their niche then we definitely recommend reaching out to the outsource people or top. Reach out to them, inquire on how they can implement a VA in your agency and to support you. And if you mention ex-recruiter or confessions of a recruiter, they will give you a 13% discount off your bill per month on this VA. That will allow you to scale your business, scale your desk and to bill more and make more money. So go reach out to the outsource people, say, confession, sent you, get your discount and see what is possible.
Speaker 3:We experience five, 10, 15 year recruiters that think they fucking know everything about recruitment and how it all works and they're at the top of their game. And then when they start an agency, they get humbled really hard and they've got to relearn. Yeah, it's like you're back at the starting blocks and um, and you've got. You go through this massive shift in your mindset and how you present yourself and you know what's important and what's not, and you learn more about recruitment and yourself, yeah, in your first 12 months than you did in your 10 years of recruitment prior, and a lot of people don't anticipate that moment, that shift in personality and identity in the first 12 months of business. That's super exciting, like the Jack that's here today is a completely different Jack who was up here 12 months ago. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3:And you can be super proud about that and go geez. Just 12 months ago I was a completely different person. And now, 12 months on, look at me today and another 12 months from now. I wonder who I'll be, because that business journey is constantly evolving you as an individual, far beyond just being a recruiter and that's what you know. I think a lot of recruiters don't anticipate is how exciting that personal growth, that personal journey that you get to go on when you're in business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it completely consumes you, Like you're not going home and you know and not thinking about what am I going to bill. You know when's that one coming in, Like it doesn't stop. So you try and slow yourself down a little bit, but I think when you love it you don't really care. Like you see your mates working really hard for every dollar they earn and you think you do a little sum sometimes and work out like what your average call makes you and it's just bizarre, yeah.
Speaker 3:What is it, Mate? What is it? Did you work it out?
Speaker 1:Like I might have done it once there after maybe six, seven months. Did you work it out Like I might have done it once there after maybe six, seven months? And you know it's like $20, $30.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like an average call. Yeah, yeah, what. You're on the phone for an average of five minutes, yeah, what about?
Speaker 2:when you do a really quick deal, like you're at dual reverse market and they accept the first candidate, you're like, oh shit, my hourly rate's about four or five grand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You just get 15, 20 G slapped in your account for a couple of emails. That's the thing. I've had to slow down a little bit because I learned in labour hire it was like don't let the sun go down on a job, Like if you've got a job, fill it. And I probably took that was probably slowed us up earlier because I was trying to fill everything so quickly, Like even with that first job I was sending candidates to him that day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, it was wild. I was like wow, this is a super proactive, fast recruiter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where it's like well, in perm, unless you've got that existing relationship with the client where they know you've got a candidate pool, like you can't go to market present someone straight away without kind of coming across that you know you're just stinging them for a fee and it's not work involved. Like it happens, sometimes we're filled a couple jobs in a day that will brand new markets and and that, but it's just a bit of, I guess, being a little bit more time in the seat you can. You don't feel as bad doing it, but early on you're like I can't send this to them after one day and charge them 20 grand.
Speaker 2:Like it's just not fair yeah, it depends on the um expectation of the conversation beforehand. So if they know you've got, you know, seven years experience doing this, you're running, you're the director, you've got candidate pools, then they can understand that. But if there's no one around and all of a sudden they get a CV and they're like wow, this is going to cost me $17,000 if I employ this person. That was way too fast Like how am I not making $17,000?
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, and that's when everyone thinks recruiters are flying and you know well it's. A lot of them are like six months worth of work where you know the candidate for a while, but then it's a one call, one email and you get them out, but you behind be my like working behind the scenes for a fair while on it yeah, you know what.
Speaker 3:It reminds me of this quote. I'm just trying to get it up now and you probably have heard of it, but I don't want to butcher it, it's just not working for me. It's the quote where this boat ship engine broke down and they've been trying to fix it for ages. They can't fix it and then some guy comes in and taps it with a hammer and he sticks him with a $200,000 bill and they go. Mate, it took you 10 minutes and you're billing me $200,000 to fix this boat and he goes. Yeah, but the reason why I was able to do it in 10 minutes is because of the 15 years of experience I've got before that yeah so you're actually paying for the 15 years of experience I've got to be able to fix this engine.
Speaker 3:Yep, and have you heard of that?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's like when you meet a real estate agent, they sell your house off market and you're like, oh shit, you just got paid like 45 grand and I'm like, yeah, but you've door knocked this suburb for the last 15 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every Saturday, sunday. Yeah you've got to appreciate what's behind it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. And sometimes clients when you go too quickly and you don't build that value of like oh look, this is why I've like exactly what Dex said is kind of framing it, setting expectations early. They do feel like it's just, you know, and I said it before, and probably not in the right way, but like they do feel like you send an email and you make all this money and it's a little bit.
Speaker 3:It's a bit rich to do that, but it is. It's right. It's the 50 calls a day that you've been making for the last 12 months that actually generated that result, not the email and the resume, so to speak.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And what about your self-talk Like Not the email and the resume, so to speak? Yeah, exactly. And what about your self-talk Like you know? I know you're working with one other bloke in parks before you kick this off, but you know we've had our chats about. You know working in the office alone and what that looks like. What's your self-talk like daily? What's your routine? How do you?
Speaker 1:because a lot of recruiters I found that the hardest part- A lot of recruiters still find it the hardest part about going out on their own and having to work from home. Yeah, for genuinely the first time, I think. Just I think you dwell on the losses for too long when you're on your own at the start and it takes like you said, it is self-talk because you're essentially whinging to yourself about how that didn't work out. But the quicker you can move on, the better, and I reckon in 12 months there's a huge difference, like if something went, went wrong in that first couple of months, because you're just under like financial stress. It's the biggest problem in the world.
Speaker 1:I'm probably on the phone and one of you boys is like, what do I do? But now it's just like, yeah, I'm used to working on my own at the moment, but I've had Tay's help over the time, but just even having her in the office is just going to be hey, this has happened. She's filled like two or three jobs just from over here and stuff and said like, oh, that candidate would be good for that client. Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Behind the scenes. She's filled a couple. Yeah, with just here and stuff.
Speaker 2:Even some of her friends.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, we've got a couple of friends, a couple of starts up here.
Speaker 1:That's right, yeah, yeah yeah, how good so it's been. Yeah, it's not easy on your own, but at the same time, people are doing a lot harder jobs on their own. So, yeah, you can't dwell on them for too long.
Speaker 2:And mate, you're sponsoring Park's number one female netball team.
Speaker 1:They got beat in the grand final last week. Yeah, pretty upset. We hadn't been to the last three or four weeks. It was getting a bit cold, put Eli to bed a bit early, but we made the trek and yeah unfortunately girls went down, but great first season.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd say we might try and sponsor a few more teams next year.
Speaker 3:So did they have Yakker on their uniform.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was pretty much like this blue with a nice logo on that.
Speaker 3:Mate, that is awesome. Yeah, it was good. Is it a surreal moment that you like turn up to a game and you see your logo on a sports team?
Speaker 1:outfit, even just like looking at you blacks wearing the shirts and doing this. Is it just, yeah you think 12 months ago? Yeah, it's not. It's not even something you're thinking of.
Speaker 3:It's funny, like a lot of recruiters don't anticipate the level of success, they underestimate the level of success that they'll make in their first 12 months. And exactly like what you've just explained before, you went into a new market doing perm you've never done before, working for yourself on no salary, like you had basically all odds stacked against you and you did a deal in what your second month.
Speaker 1:Yeah, end of the second month.
Speaker 3:yeah, End of the second month. Most perm recruiters high billing perm recruiters are anticipating hopefully doing their first deal in the second or third month and they are staying in the same industry doing the same recruitment. And so to hear you going from labor hire to um labor hire in a different state to then do them perm in a different industry, like all these, all these like crazy anomalies that would just make things so much harder and then you're still able to pull a deal in your second month is really. It's actually really good and not many even really good recruiters are like that. They guess that they will do a deal in their second month.
Speaker 1:It didn't feel like that, though, cause I was so used to quick wins in labor and temp work um, like calls, and that didn't feel like a call, or a client meeting didn't feel like a win, so it essentially felt like two months without a win and like I remember my family saying to me, like it'll take three or four months before you know, start things start to kick off, and I couldn't believe that.
Speaker 3:So maybe that's why it was a bit earlier, because by the end of two months you're like thank god, god, yeah, you've got the fast feedback loop of temp. But, you know what that's probably made you a good perm recruiter? Because if you keep the temp intensity in a perm environment, you end up being a gun.
Speaker 1:I don't think you could go the other way as well. Nah, nah, like rugby league players to rugby union. Rugby union can't come back to rugby league, oh you can't go back to temp. No like. I don't think you could be a perm recruiter for six years and then go oh, I'm going to go sit on a labour hire.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's no chance it could be a resignation next day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. So does that mean perm's easier than temp?
Speaker 1:In a way Like essentially you've got to after 12 months. Like you've got a candidate pool in your head of like well, I remember the big thing at our old agency was try and kill and fill jobs on the same phone call. Like hey mate, I need this chippy tomorrow or I need a labourer tomorrow. Like if you were doing your job properly, you were filling the job before you got off the phone. You're like, yeah, actually, what suburb? Yeah, no, I've got a bloke that only lives two suburbs. Over what time? And to have that a little bit in perm of just knowing where people are based, what they're looking for, what's going to be a good fit, like I've done it a couple of times in my head filled perm jobs while I'm on the phone. But obviously you need to do the process.
Speaker 1:It is good, but then at the same time when, like you fill a job in two weeks, you feel like, ah geez, like that probably took a bit longer than it should have.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I love that and so. So now your your first year anniversary in business. Yep is, is it?
Speaker 1:this month or last month. Well, official launch, like I think was still the start of july, like when you guys came down, probably before even all kind of happening we came down in may yeah, like we were just kind of working behind the scenes and that was another thing that I thought would. That probably held me back thinking wait till the website launches, wait till this, it meant nothing yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just a mentality in your head, it is.
Speaker 1:And it's a little. It's that like it's the opposite of a salary for three months. It's that little safety blanket thinking well, after three months it's going to work out because I've on the phone. I say it's Jack from Yakka, because it's just so much easier. You go into your story and yeah. So I think maybe end of June, we'll say officially 12 months.
Speaker 3:Okay, so 12 months. Let's just call it 12 months. Was it what you expected?
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe after 12 months better than I expected.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 1:But I remember three or four months hinting yeah, I don't know. I guess it went pretty up and down. You rode the waves. I don't know how many times you've been in the shower and you're writing on the shower screen Like the figures that you need to hit for different months.
Speaker 1:All the time like just massive thinker in there and then only like, with the minimum revenue that we had to hit for 12 months. That must have just been in my subconscious so much because, like pretty much of you know, last week we've hit it and like I remember writing it on the shower screen, thinking like that was not a number that we're even close to seven months ago, six months ago. So I really did feel proud last week when it was kind of that was all happening and it was probably the first time where you can actually be like, yeah, this is a business to really be proud of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not often do you stop and smell the roses, hey.
Speaker 1:No, you don't.
Speaker 3:Yeah, You're in there, you're smashing it out. It's just one thing after the next, and sometimes it's really good to just take a step back and go fuck. I've done a pretty good job here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and feel like I haven't missed out on too much in like home life as well, like Eli's only 17, 18 months now and I feel like I've been really present, like I haven't done four days a week, but I've done probably four and a half days a week. I'll have him half a day on a Thursday, but then it ends up that's huge Mate.
Speaker 3:but then it ends up Mate, that's huge Mate. So you're crushing it in business. Successful first year. Better than you expected. More family time at home, doing four and a half days a week.
Speaker 1:Essentially what a?
Speaker 3:fucking win.
Speaker 1:that is I'd like to drop it back to four. I'd like to have him a day a week, but at the same time like if your phone's ringing and I'm still going to be making calls, like Eli's in the back seat now, and when you get on the phone he starts going no, no, no, He'll pick up a remote and everything's a phone. So he's obviously seeing what I'm doing. So if he wasn't doing that, maybe I can be concerned that I wasn't doing enough activity.
Speaker 3:You know what I reckon clients and candidates. If they hear Eli in the background, they'd probably be like oh, that's so cute.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they love that and the interpersonal relationships you get when you're the director. It's different hey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I probably didn't see it much until maybe the last month I did a deal with a bloke that probably used to see a little bit and never had much success with having always have a chat and friendly. And then I reached out and he saw my signature on my email. So he saw my face and saw that it was our company and it was like it was a completely different conversation. It was pumped for us. He thought like well done. So yeah, I think we're starting to see that. I know you boys talk about the compounding effect. I just knew whatever we could do in this first year was just going to be like the start of it, yep, and if we can get through then, yeah, we'll see what happens next.
Speaker 3:Okay, so talk us through the next 12 months. Is there any kind of vision for expectations? Obviously, we know Tay is going to be coming into the business pretty shortly, yeah, so what are we thinking the next 12 months we have in store for us?
Speaker 1:Like revenue-wise. I think you're mad not to think you want to try and double what you did, because I guess you got twice the people working on it. Yeah, no, huge.
Speaker 3:Are you staying in?
Speaker 1:parks. Yeah, we'll be in parks, I reckon, for a few years. Yeah, keep the. Probably 60% of our work's been up in Brisbane. Yeah, you keep doing that quarterly trip up. And then there's huge opportunities in parks with, like, renewable energy manufacturing. I met a bloke last week at the coffee shop on a rainy day getting a takeaway coffee, who's a developer for a solar farm, and I only just started having a yarn to him about the weather. Like there's people starting to come out to those regional areas and think I think parks is eight hours away. Oh, sorry, not eight hours away, it's a day away from every capital city, except probably Perth, I think, like transport-wise, oh, okay, so a lot of people are setting up like manufacturing businesses because instead of having them in Sydney and then having to come down south or go north, it's pretty much in the middle.
Speaker 3:Oh gotcha.
Speaker 1:So it's like a really big… Logistics hub. And it's called. There's a few in regional towns. It's called a special activation precinct. There's this beautiful road out there that looks like the M5 in Sydney and there's like two or three buildings on that street and it's got another 7Ks worth of spot to build there Interesting. I think we'd be mad not to think we'll forever have a base there.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And also like if mum and dad stay there, well then there's a base to go back and visit. Yeah, but yeah, I don't have huge aspirations of thinking I want to conquer every city or, you know, every state. We love it up here in Queensland, so it's natural to be here. And then, yeah, obviously, service your kind of home area is always nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Keep growing personally, professionally, get tamed in the business, keep enjoying family life because ultimately, you know, I'd say nine out of ten recruiters I speak to they're not trying to build the next Hayes or Randstad. They're using recruitment as a vehicle to have the life that they've always wanted, and that's more time, freedom, flexibility to spend with their loved ones. A little bit of extra money in the bank doesn't go too bad either and to do the things that they're passionate about on the side as well.
Speaker 3:So are you doing anything outside of recruitment? Now that you're a bit of an entrepreneur? You're 12 months in have you got your eyes on something else that sparks your interest?
Speaker 1:Not so much yet. Blake Mate, just I think, just I'm not even like excited about increasing head count, like I really want to see what me and Tay can do and then go from there. I can't wait for like to start going to Eli's sport.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because me and Tay are all done with sport. Now she plays netball, I just do a bit of training and that now that I'm done with footy. So it's a small little town, there's not a heap to do, but you get a lot of really good family time and I don't think you ever get that back 100%.
Speaker 3:You can't yeah.
Speaker 2:Sponsoring some more footy teams.
Speaker 1:Sponsoring some more footy teams? Yeah, I reckon, maybe the rugby league team Rugby league yeah, a couple others. There's a little billboard outside of town that we want to put our faces on.
Speaker 2:Hey, how do you even contact those billboards? Is there a number? There's a number on it, really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just got call and I remember telling Dad because Mum and Dad had a furniture shop in town. Dad's like I called that number. Like you know, 10 years back I was going to do the same thing. It was ridiculously expensive, but you know who knows It'd be pretty cool.
Speaker 2:It's been over 12 months since we were there and they still don't have anyone on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you'd think you'd rather just get the money, wouldn't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe it's just to promote the dude's number and someone pays for it. Yeah, it might be a hotline. What about like of them here, like government panels, local state?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'd say we'll get into all the stuff that we know how to do eventually, like a bit of temp work and contracts with government and that. But yeah, this first 12 months has been really good to learn something completely new. While it's your own business, and well, you're working hard but you reap all the rewards instead of, you know, just doing it for someone else's business.
Speaker 2:And you're going to double just by having Tay. I think so, more than double.
Speaker 1:I just think like you've had to be really good at like compartmentalising and you know you're the resourcer and then you've got to pump up and get on the phone and go back and forward, especially like so early on in business. You're not just filling the same roles, like sometimes you are going to market fresh and you're finding people, and like a good day for me in recruitment would be to not be in the office, to spend the whole day in the car or out and about on the phone and just have a list of people to call and then just follow that. Yeah, that's when I have a lot of success, like those days you sit in the office and you do too much. You just know you need to get out. Especially when you're on, when you're on your own, you can get a lot done in a pretty short amount of time. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I think in recruitment, one plus one actually equals three. It doesn't equal two. I think you should be able to over double your billings, because it's just the extra dynamic and energy of someone else being there plus their effort. I mean you both increase dramatically. I find Whenever I'm around someone else while I'm recruiting I always do better, just by osmosis. Maybe it's because I want to stick it to them and I'm on the phones more than them subconsciously, you get competitive.
Speaker 1:It's just in you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Love that.
Speaker 2:How much do you reckon sport contributed to your success as a recruiter?
Speaker 1:I think it helped with. I think the best one for being playing sport is just that you can cop really harsh feedback and move on and take the best part out of it. Like you don't sit and dwell on much that would be the best thing. Like I know that there's a bloke in Sydney that's made his business of putting athletes into sales roles because you get competitive, especially in like environments.
Speaker 1:I remember the first coming year when, like H, people were just kicking off and that was just like you're pumped. And then you listen for a half hour and you're like, well, like I've got to get on the phone and, like you know, jump into a few meetings here and like everyone's listening to each other. So I just knew like if I was doing these kind of billings on my own, like wait till someone else is around and you can start feeding off each other, yeah, that's when it changes.
Speaker 2:There's a seven figure desk.
Speaker 1:Be nice, yeah, just keep poking away in parks and two offices at the moment.
Speaker 3:Two offices.
Speaker 1:Had a leak in one, but I put a sign on both and had a few people asking me what was going on, but it was good for the look. Yeah, it was good for the look yeah.
Speaker 2:Mate, it's a great space. What a great way to start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been good. I wouldn't have been able to do it out of the home office and wouldn't have enjoyed it. I love getting out and then, like you said, you meet people at the coffee shop that turn into clients and having a space for you. Well, I think we spoke about once having a space for your family to come and you see like they're running the door and they're excited to see you and it's your office, like that's as good as it gets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% mate. It's bloody awesome.
Speaker 3:All right, I've got a question before we wrap this up and this is going to be my question. I think I took a leaf out of Diary of a CEO's book. Have you seen Diary?
Speaker 1:of a CEO. Yeah, I read his book. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And what he likes to do, and this is super ad hoc right now, having spoken to Declan about this.
Speaker 1:So this wasn't in the email that you teed me up.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, this wasn't in the email. I want to ask you a question and grab your answer, and then you've got to ask a question for our next guest. Oh yeah. And then we're going to ask our next guest the question that you pose. All right, so I'm going to start it off. What would you tell Jack from Yakka?
Speaker 1:12 months ago now. Oh, you could get very soppy and say like it's going to be all right. But like, yeah, I think the more situation the situation where your back's to the wall and you've got to make it work is the better. Like, if you've got any safety blanket of thinking, oh, I don't have to go as hard here as I need to, it's probably no good. Yeah, like, make the situation. It's got to be a risk and that's how it's all kind of worked for us, so just back yourself and it'll work out.
Speaker 3:Back yourself and it'll work out. Love that.
Speaker 1:What question do you think we need to ask our next guest?
Speaker 3:Do you have the guest?
Speaker 1:name no, okay.
Speaker 3:So they're going to have no idea? Well, you're going to have no idea who you're asking, but they're going to know it came from you.
Speaker 1:Okay, what's the best advice you've ever received in recruitment?
Speaker 3:Love that Writing that down. It's a new tradition just starting here, yeah yeah, yeah, just completely ad hoc Say that again.
Speaker 1:What's the best advice you've received for recruitment?
Speaker 3:What's the best advice you've received in recruitment? Awesome, love that. On that note, jack from Yakka, thank you for coming and sharing your story.
Speaker 1:Blake from Yakka, Declan from Yakka. We love your merch. Thank you, boys. The trio.
Speaker 3:Now let's get some pickies and celebrate the day and enjoy our dinner tonight.
Speaker 1:Mate quickly thank you for all your help over the last 12 months. It's been a fun journey and to see how far you guys have now gone like it's yeah, it's really exciting.
Speaker 3:Thanks, mate, appreciate that. Let's keep going, Absolutely, let's go.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. Thanks brother.
Speaker 3:Thanks for tuning in to another Confessions of a Recruiter podcast with Blake and Declan. We hope you enjoyed and got a lot of value and insights out of this episode. If you do have any questions or you would like to recommend someone to come on the Confessions podcast, we would love any introductions and remember the rule of the podcast, like share and recommend it to a friend. Until next time.