Confessions of a Recruiter
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Confessions of a Recruiter
Mastering BD: Healthcare and Pharmaceuticals | COAR S1-EP6
Ever wondered what separates average recruiters from million-dollar billers? Mollie Gunn, Director i-Pharm Consulting , pulls back the curtain on the strategies that transformed her from rookie recruiter to industry powerhouse.
Mollie’s approach to business development defies convention. Instead of chasing quick wins, she builds success through persistence, even calling prospects for years before landing them. "I'm relentless, I will not give up," she says, a mindset that has won her major accounts once thought unattainable.
The episode dives deep into practical techniques that any recruiter can implement immediately. From creating structured BD blocks in your calendar to insisting on proper job briefings (never just over the phone), Mollie reveals the disciplined habits that drive exceptional results. Her signature question—"Why?"—serves as both a powerful objection handler and a tool to uncover clients' true needs during discovery calls.
Perhaps most refreshingly, Molly challenges the transactional approach that plagues many recruitment businesses. She confidently articulates her value proposition to clients, standing firm on fees while offering creative alternatives like extended guarantees for retained work. "If the only thing you can negotiate on is price, I don't know if I really want to work with you," she states, embodying the confidence that has earned her trusted advisor status with clients.
Whether you're new to recruitment or looking to break through to the next level, this episode delivers actionable insights that will transform how you approach business development, take job briefs, and handle objections.
· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
Welcome back to Confessions On this episode. We're speaking to the million dollar biller, molly Gunn, a director at iFarm Consult. We go through business development strategies, objection handling strategies, how to take a good job brief and how to get to the why. This episode was full of energy and we're so grateful for Molly to be a part of it. So if you're looking to get better at BD, at building a desk, and you're all about high performance, this episode you will not want to miss.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to Confessions of a Recruiter, and today we are joined by Molly Gunn. That's actually the perfect name for recruitment, isn't?
Speaker 3:it the Gunn. What do they say? Gunn by name, Gunn by nature?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's perfect. I've been obviously looking through your background. There's a lot of cool stuff on there, but I'm probably going to give you the floor for five minutes just to open up and tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey and how you got to where you are today.
Speaker 3:Cool Five minutes. I don't want to take up that much of your time.
Speaker 2:Well, you might not Two minutes five minutes.
Speaker 1:That I was not right for working in a lab.
Speaker 3:I could not imagine myself being a lab rat ever, so made the move over to Australia in 2018 or 2017. I can't even remember now. So I've been here eight years, had this like master plan of coming to Australia, thinking it would be really easy to get into pharma over here and do medical sales, but it wasn't. So I ended up doing life insurance sales, which was, I guess, in some way related, but not really. But we're talking kind of like Boiler Room, which is like one of my favorite favorite movies ever by the way.
Speaker 3:Best movie ever Boiler Room vibes like you're on an automatic dialer. You're ringing just like literally people I'd say about 600 or 700 dials per day and I could not get the knack of it for the first few weeks and then eventually first got my very first sale and then pretty much flew from there onwards and that was my first like sales role that I'd ever actually done on the phone and I was like oh, I really like this, so was going to get sponsored there. Didn't ended up going to do farm work picking sweet potatoes for a few months in Bundaberg, which I actually loved Nice.
Speaker 3:Loved and then came back to Sydney, did a short stint in medical sales, but it was like a virtual sales role and I was like this is not overly exciting. So I wanted to marry off recruitment with pharma because that's what my background was in. I did the role for a short amount of time. I knew recruitment was an area that I could get into and actually like when I first got into Australia that's actually a story for another day about my very first recruitment interview when I first got here. Let's open up another can of worms.
Speaker 2:We won't do that now, we'll ask it later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll ask you about it later.
Speaker 3:But yeah, basically kind of had the idea that I wanted to get into recruitment but didn't really know anyone. Eventually, like back and forth as to whether or not she could put me forward, because I was on a visa at the time. Um ended up coming out of the interview with a message from the person my current director at the same time as basically I was in the interview with the girl. So it was like almost like serendipity and I walked out and I was like what that is so crazy. So then I've literally been at iFarm for over six and a half years now and truly feel like it was just like the perfect job, the perfect time. It's like literally changed my life. It's best job ever. But started off as a trainee like literally no recruitment experience whatsoever, so green Didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 2:And you've just gone rapidly through the ranks, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I think I've maybe had six or seven promotions since I started Awesome Epic, so I'm a director now with a team underneath me, so I specialize in commercial recruitment and medical affairs recruitment and that's across pharmaceuticals, biotech, consumer health and animal health.
Speaker 1:So that's a lot of niches. I'll tell you why, okay.
Speaker 3:So basically, when I came on board, there had been people that had tried to set up the commercial desk at iFarm before and couldn't get it off the ground, and I think if I were to just focus on pharma, like just big pharma they're obviously massive global corporate organizations with high barriers to entry, PSLs, HR, lots of like very rigid processes to get in.
Speaker 3:So, honestly, if I had just gone down pharma or biotech, it would have taken I don't know if I would have had the success that I would have had if I didn't like like I suppose what's the word I'm trying to say Like, expand it out. And so all of the industries that I recruit in are technically pharmaceuticals. But I wanted to do it with things that I was really like, passionate and aligned to. So obviously I love animals, I have a dog and a horse, so I was like well, it makes sense to me to recruit in animal health and it's all like animal pharmaceuticals products. So that was that Consumer health. I consumer health. I'm really into like health and wellness and running and fitness, so I was like that's also pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 2:I'll recruit in that space and then the other one is medical aesthetics, which I think most girls are interested in, so they mostly understand what that is exactly, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I was like well, I'm really interested in that too. So all of these like I call them like my four key pillars, but like a lot of the candidates and um clients can kind of like interact between each other got it so if you have someone in animal health, you could place them in consumer. You could even place them in human.
Speaker 1:So how did you know to choose those industries? Was that driven by you or your director, everything was me.
Speaker 3:I just came in and I was just like okay, this is what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1:Awesome, built it from there and you have a lot of good content on LinkedIn. Yep, I see the magic microphone all the time the mic drop.
Speaker 3:Do you want to talk to us? I definitely need a new one. It's bashed from dropping it on the floor all the time.
Speaker 1:Do you want to talk to us about the bit of context around why the microphone?
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Talk to us about the mini violin, yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, mic drop. So basically, I think I had this one video that I put up on LinkedIn at one point at the start of the year where I was like mic drop and it was like something that was a little bit controversial in the industry, like maybe it was something to I don't know, I love this one, but like hiring managers interviewing candidates and it's not a two-way street, like it might've been like a mic drop just as a reminder. You have to have a two-way process when you're interviewing candidates. I would expect it was something along the lines of that. But Maeve, who works alongside me, was like why don't we make a series out of that? And I was like yeah. She was like, okay, let's do it. So basically, the whole thing behind the mic drop was that we get a lot of inbound candidates coming to us asking us for help and asking us for advice and, honestly, like when I first started in recruitment, this is probably one of the things that I didn't really manage well, but I used to try and speak to everyone because I never wanted to be the recruiter that didn't get back to people. I always was like I don't want to be that person. I'm going to get back to absolutely everyone and then I'm like realistically, like that, there's not enough hours in the day for that.
Speaker 3:So the whole mic drop series was basically set up in a way to like give people tips and tricks and kind of, in a way, call some things out that maybe aren't best practice in the industry too. It gives candidates like a voice, I suppose, in a way if they've gone through similar things that we're talking about. But it was kind of like an education piece where we don't have enough time to speak to everyone. So, like as an example, we've made one like last week it was six minutes long. It was way too long, or maybe it was a couple of weeks ago about aspiring MSLs looking to get into the industry and what you can do, because we don't have the time to speak to them all.
Speaker 3:So that's kind of how it started. It was meant to be Mondays every week and that was really very consistent for the first like probably two or three months, and now it's just whatever day we can during the week, because recruitment is recruitment, right. And some days me and Maeve go in and we're like ready to box each other because we're like we can't get the video today, we can't record it. You're talking crap, you're talking crap and it just is like right, let's just park it for now. If we can't do it today, we'll do it another day during the week, but as long as we're still consistently dropping the mic and, honestly, the amount of people that come, I got stopped in the city like a couple months ago are you, molly Gunn?
Speaker 3:and I was like, yes, he's like follow you on LinkedIn. And this was just after I'd put up a post of me and Maeve with our tattoos out, basically saying we're like forming together. He was like, yeah, I noticed your tattoos and then I know you from the mic drops and like a lot of the places that we go, like industry events. Now, people always talk about mic drops, so it's worked quite well so you're a pioneer in the mic dropping space.
Speaker 3:Pioneer in the mic drop nobody like Like we should have actually got. What do you call it? Like we should have painted it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a bit of trademark, A bit of copywriting.
Speaker 3:So the tiny violin then is basically a little addition, because we were like, right, can we make a second series? And trying to, realistically, we're probably not going to do that, but we'll get the tiny violin when we can.
Speaker 1:We were like well, we do wins and they do, yeah, yeah so basically the tiny violin is.
Speaker 3:I always say like one of the hardest things in recruitment is like managing your emotions and like when things go wrong. I've personally seen a lot of recruiters like spin out when things don't go right and you know they'll not do the most healthiest of things. When deals fall through or I don't know, clients don't sign whatever, um, and I've always had a mindset of like okay, grand, like you're annoyed about it for a second, but then get your tiny violin, have a five second funeral and then get back on the phone and ring somebody else like that's it like bring someone else five second funeral.
Speaker 3:Yeah, love it literally like it's okay, just go. And I always say like there's been a bit stressful and I'm like my best advice to you is okay, have your second and then just honestly call someone else, Call someone that you like, have a good chat with them, move on. And that's where the tiny violin comes from.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. That's awesome. We can start using that. Yeah, I'm going to start using that myself. I'll be sitting on the violin all day.
Speaker 3:I. Maybe I'll actually get the full-blown violin out. I'm coming into the office. I'm already loud as it is, so can you imagine, we also wanted a trombone for when things go well, but I'm like this is too much I need to relax.
Speaker 1:I need to relax, I love that. So, yeah, no, that's good. So this Confessions season is all about business development, yep. So we're trying to get a little bit more deliberate with our Confessions episodes, and so who better to? Speak to, than I hear you're a million dollar biller. Yes, and so you started as a rookie recruiter six years ago. Now you've reached the holy land of million dollars.
Speaker 3:I am the recruiting. God, it's me.
Speaker 1:So talk us through perhaps maybe the last three years of your BD strategy, because I'm assuming three years ago you weren't billing a million.
Speaker 3:No, I wish. That's literally what I said my first week in iFarm. I was like how can I become a million dollar biller? I was like, okay, well, we're probably a few years off. But it was always in the mindset of like how can I get there? Totally.
Speaker 1:And so what have you been doing differently, specifically around business development, prospecting for new business? What's the number one thing that has made a big shift for you? To get new clients.
Speaker 3:I think. First off, I'll say I think people really overcomplicate business development and my strategy is extremely straightforward and it's not complicated. It's like identify a client, map out that client, have a couple of different people in that one business that you want to reach out to on a consistent call basis, which is usually if you have a phone call with them. For me it'd be anything from 10 to 12 weeks and literally calling them every three months and it's like years and years and years of work. So, like a couple of examples we've brought, like I can think of two right now, two accounts that we've just probably signed up this year, that I've been ringing for five years. Really, yeah, wow, and I'm relentless, I will not give up. And that's the difference. I think, like my industry that I recruit in, is very relationship driven. So people do remember the consistency of, like you calling them once a quarter. And the two accounts now that I've just brought on would have been a combination of consistently calling them every quarter, even when they were in previous roles, right, so they would have gone into new roles since, which is even better for me sometimes I'll explain that why in a minute. But it's the consistency and it's like they're reaching out to a bunch of different people within a single business and then having them as like advocacy. Again, another phone call today for a blue chip farmer and she was like, don't worry, I'm the one pushing for you, for you with HR, so is X, so is this other person, and that's what you need. You need like four or five people. I've probably got more in that one business. But like pushing for you to get in, my approach is is long term, though right. So I think that's maybe where it might be different.
Speaker 3:You know, for other industries, obviously, when I came on board and I had no candidates or no clients, like of course I was going to be looking for, you know shorter term wins, just getting anyone and anyone on until I could literally build myself up, but I always had the long. I kind of have like two um kind of approaches, I guess, like you have your short, short, quick wins and then you've got a all of the longer term stuff in the background. So basically, what I do is I'll analyze business. So for me, I recruit ins. I spend a lot of time like researching companies that are planning to set up in Australia.
Speaker 3:I do that by looking at, like our TGA, which is our regulatory body in Australia, looking at what products are under evaluation and with who, looking at products that have just recently been approved, because these are all trigger points for hiring right For me personally. I'm like, okay, so somebody who's just got a product product on the TGA, then they're probably going to have to build out a team. Um, or they've just lost, they've just actually put a product under evaluation, or they're probably going to build out an Australian entity. So I'm always trying to find either of those two.
Speaker 2:So companies that are growing or companies setting up shop do you carve up um how much time you spend on, you know short-term win versus your long-term plays? Or is it just?
Speaker 3:Now it's kind of like all combined into one because all of the long-term stuff is starting to come to fruition, if that makes sense because, it's like six years, but I think my strategy when I first looked at it would always have been like the classic, like going through the job boards, looking at who's hiring, trying to get jobs on from some of the teams that have clients that wouldn't have been in my space as in commercial or medical and kind of going down that route. So that was like your short or what, your low hanging fruit, right, and then everything else was pretty much medium to long-term recruitment. I'm very much on that mindset of like I obviously want to have wins now, but I also have a big picture of what I think this is going to look like in the future and I have to really focus on that, especially in the markets that I recruit in.
Speaker 1:Especially in the markets that I recruit in Interesting. So I've got a couple of questions on that. So the first thing is so you identify a hiring manager.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:And then you also identify three or four other people that are close to that hiring manager that you want to build a relationship with too.
Speaker 3:They're probably also hiring managers.
Speaker 1:Okay, yep, are they in the same divisions that you recruit in, though? Yeah, so.
Speaker 3:I'll give you an example right. Typically I'll look at like MD or CEO as one contact. Of course I have HR as well. I wouldn't necessarily actively business development or BD to HR, but they have to be involved in the process at some point. So having a connection with them is important. But then everything else would be for me. If I look at my different markets so commercial and medical I'm looking at medical directors, sales directors, marketing directors, head of commercial.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So you can see how in a big company there would be four or five people all within that space.
Speaker 1:Perfect Okay. So what is your approach to them when you've never spoken to them before?
Speaker 3:This is my number one top trick I shouldn't say trick, but anyway. I love speaking with senior candidates because that's the area that I really want to focus on. So I often would engage people as a candidate first and go through a process of really getting them on board as a candidate and flip to BD at the end and then consistently speak to them over the next few years about opportunities and business development. So that would be my first point of call with, say, someone who's like a medical director or sales director, marketing director um, sometimes I will just ring them up out of the blue like well, actually often I'll ring them up out of the blue, um, and ask them are you looking for work? Okay, you're not. How about recruitment? How does that look? What's your team like? What's the structure? How do you recruit? And that's a whole other conversation, right? So that's if I'm calling them up out of the blue.
Speaker 3:I've not sent them a LinkedIn message, for example. Or I'll go and see if somebody's got funding recently, or I'll go and see if somebody's put in a new product for evaluation with the TGA. Oh, I've just seen this. Like what does that mean for your business? Are you going to be recruiting and they might say, oh, not now, but in six months, and then it's okay, working toward that six month schedule. So there's a few different things. I'm not the type of recruiter that's going to ring you about vacancy though Not now, maybe I would have in the past. But I just don't want to be that one that's ringing you up being like hey, I've seen you've got a role advertised. Can I work it? That's never really been.
Speaker 1:Why are you going away from that now?
Speaker 3:Well, I just think every recruiter is doing that right. Every single recruiter is scouring job boards, ringing up hiring managers. How are you going to do something that's going to stand out? That's different to the to then just being the person calling them? I'd like how many recruiters are in life sciences? Oh, heaps, and I'd say all of them are ringing these managers all the time about roles they see on seek. So I need to try and do something that's different okay, no, I like that.
Speaker 1:So so to follow through with that, let's say you've, you've. You've called four hiring managers in one company. Um, are you calling them all on the same day? Are? Are you staggering it out? No, I'm not staggered. Okay, staggered out.
Speaker 3:They talk right. I text two of my candidates yesterday to check in. The hiring manager is like texting me, being like oh, have you just checked in with the candidates? I'm like yes. And she's like, oh, they're talking about you in the office. I'm like, great, so everybody actually talks in our industry. Who's been sat beside another hiring manager that knows me? And it's like, oh, it's Molly Gunring me. And I'm like so I try my best to not do that on the same day.
Speaker 3:But it's unavoidable right If they're all working in the same companies, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So if you've got, let's say you've got four hiring managers and you're trying, to Probably every week. Okay, every week, you'll just call a different one.
Speaker 3:So I would do that if they connect. So if somebody picks up the phone and I have a meaningful conversation, ie, I've actually had a conversation with them, I've asked them questions. I'm really rigid about that with BD, because I know a lot of people kind of mask BD calls. It's like, oh, I've given them a pitch and then I've gotten the phone thrown down on me Like no, you have to have a meaningful conversation where you've had a couple of minutes on the phone Hopefully I've had a call to action from that as well where you would then lock them in for the next call. Obviously, if it's like a call with, say, a team build or something that's actually happening in the next few months, I will call them when they tell me to call them. But if it's nothing and it's just a check-in, it would be every three months. And then if somebody doesn't pick up the phone, I have a multi-channel. Probably sent you a few over the years LinkedIn, video, um memes. I actually don't send memes. Maybe I should.
Speaker 1:I've been sending you memes. Yeah, you have. I remember the cow.
Speaker 3:What was it the Highland cow?
Speaker 2:you didn't send me memes. Yeah, what's this about? Huh, you didn't send me memes ever it's not that important.
Speaker 1:No, I sent you a gun as well. I was was like where's some gun memes? And it's just like this dude with a gun pointing at her.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so yeah, I'll find a way to follow up email text or some sort of engagement on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:One big question that is always at the front of recruiters' minds, who are trying to go from transactional to value-driven, insight-driven, you-driven. You've just kind of put it really well that you're researching, you're trying to figure out what's going on so you can have more meaningful conversations. So how does someone go from a transactional BD approach to try and get a meaningful conversation to then providing insights Like what would you recommend a recruiter do if they were sitting with you today and going, hey, I'm really transactional, I'm trying to lead with more value. What do I need to do?
Speaker 3:It's definitely a mindset thing, right? It's like 100%, is that what you're aligned to like? Because if you're a transactional recruiter, you have to really shift your mindset around that. I've never been one and I actually a lot of the time when I'm speaking to clients I'll kind of almost like say it from the very get-go, just so you know, I'm not a transactional recruiter and if that's the way that you like to work, we're not going to be able to partner together. So I want to make it really clear that this is a partnership for me. So from the client perspective, that's kind of how I weed out the type of clients that I want to work with.
Speaker 3:I think if you're finding yourself you're being transactional, it's the easiest thing to do, right? Because it's like if you've got pressure from your boss, you're not hitting your targets. You've got KPIs. You can find yourself doing things that are like sending out mass mail, spec CVs to 50 clients and doing that sort of stuff, which I have never, ever done. I don't actually think I've ever sent a mass mail of spec CVs in my whole entire life.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 3:No, I've always like. I like to think of it as like my approach is luxury, right, I like the nicer things in life, so I would appreciate that on the client side if somebody treated me in that way. So you have to mirror how you want to be perceived. And so doing transactional things is only going to lead to transactional ways of working. You have to do things that are different in my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's say there was a recruiter, that they're transactional, there's just a bit of a gap in their mind on how do I move from transactional to relationship driven? Because I want to be relationship driven. I want to be Molly, I want to bill a million bucks.
Speaker 3:I want to have my own horse one day.
Speaker 1:How do I become a relationship recruiter? Do you subscribe to industry news?
Speaker 3:I just love it. I just love researching. I invest in the industry too, right, so I'm often like researching about these companies for a personal thing anyway. So I have a natural interest in the industry. So I think, like for you to be passionate, maybe you might need to change industry if you're really transactional, because maybe you just don't actually like the industry that you're recruiting in. Like I don't think I could ever be transactional because I genuinely interest. I'm genuinely interested in what I do. I come from a science background so I can have technical conversations with candidates and clients find that really easy and enjoyable. So I guess it's probably around that I don't really have anything to answer because I'm not a transactional recruiter.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, well, what are you doing? What are you doing over and above recruitment? Do you wake?
Speaker 3:up in the morning have a coffee and then read the pharmaceutical digest. No, no, no, I think I'm no Chat GPT duh.
Speaker 1:That's all for me.
Speaker 3:Give me some value-led recruitment PD pitches we actually do have an industry newsletter, which is really cool. So we've got one that's called Farm and Focus and actually, would you believe iFarm has been mentioned on it a few times where they take our content from mic drop and put it in there, so that's great exposure for us by the way.
Speaker 3:So we love that. But yeah, we're always checking in on that, like checking that every single day you get an email through that comes through and honestly, it's me it really interesting. I'll tell you what I do with my team but I've put in like a research team or research time, just a block of just specific activities for BD, and I would spend all of that time like researching new companies in this space, trying to understand who's who and really absolutely understand the market. So I think a lot of it was just me and like genuinely being interested in finding new companies, finding new science, that sort of stuff. Yeah, I don't know if that really answers the question does.
Speaker 1:No, I like that. Um so so. So you've got a bd block where you're on the phone, yeah, and do you also block out research time? So, okay, so or is that the same thing for you?
Speaker 3:back in the day it was the same thing. Okay, so it would be that three hour. Is that three or three hours?
Speaker 3:yes, it is yeah, yeah but often it would go a lot longer than that because I was relentless about getting to a certain number of calls per day. So yeah, it would be, as an absolute minimum, come in and do business development activities from 10 till 1. And this was back in the day where if you're even one minute late back to your desk in recruitment, like it would be the worst thing ever. So it was like the timing. Everything was like literally blocked off. So I'd come in in the morning sometimes it would be half seven and I'd record Hintro videos. Do you remember Hintro?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I would send videos to companies being like hey, I hope everything's going well at Pfizer Again, really personalized approach. I would actually record me talking about them and their company and you know what I've heard in the industry and send that across. So again, I probably did a bit more BD.
Speaker 1:Is this a LinkedIn DM video?
Speaker 3:Email.
Speaker 1:Email Yep.
Speaker 3:Email so you'd send them a link with a thumbnail to the little video that you made them attached with our brochure. So that was something that I used to do when no one was in the office because I couldn't record myself in front of people. Back then it was so cringe. I was like half seven. Is anyone coming in?
Speaker 2:like I'd be like recording myself. Did you get good cut through with that? I've never done.
Speaker 1:No, no no, sorry, Useless. I was about to say this is awesome. No, no, no, wait, wait.
Speaker 3:Let me explain. Let me explain With Hintro no, because it was sending a link.
Speaker 3:So, people were really unsure about clicking on the link even though we had the thumbnail and we're like this is not fraud. I think people naturally I would be though Actually, I've still gotten a few where I'm going to click this link, even though I really shouldn't, because I really want to see what's on there, but the videos definitely work. So, instead of doing the intro side of things, I just do LinkedIn. It's free now as well, right, and I can actually directly send them a video on LinkedIn. So that's what I do. But yeah, I think that's definitely worked.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Okay, so just to wrap up the prospecting side of things, do you have KPIs system, numbers, some sort of measurable that you go? I need to do this amount of cold calls, cold videos, voice notes per week and what does that look like?
Speaker 3:The only thing that I actually actively track is BD calls and meetings, obviously. But we as a business we're not like really really hard and fast on KPIs, not like some of the bigger players, but we have our own individual ones that we want to work toward. When I first started at iFarm, I used to aim for literally five business development and five candidate calls every single day. I took a screenshot of my activity for my first like four years in recruitment and you can see like I used to do nearly 700 BD calls every single year, which ideally, I mean, that's not obviously five a day, but it was aiming for five every single day. Some months I'd had like over a hundred and something BD calls and I'd just be on the phone to absolutely everyone that would listen to me.
Speaker 1:So what is your KPI now?
Speaker 3:So I don't really have a solid KPI now, other than I want to have at least two business development calls now per day for just for me, because I'm not building anymore, right? So the block that I I have, which used to be 10 till 1, depends on, obviously, what I'm doing. I've a team now that I'm managing. I still do business development every day and you are silly if you don't. Like I shoot myself in the foot if I ever do a week or two where I don't because I'm like why I know every single time I don't do it, I know I'm going to be annoyed at myself for not doing it. So what I have as an absolute minimum with my team and this is actually just to keep myself accountable as well is a block of between 10 and 11 every single day that you do BD as an absolute minimum. Obviously, the guys on my team that are building need to be doing more, but because I'm managing, I'm account managing, bding yeah, I'd say like for me at the moment.
Speaker 3:My goal for this week was 25. I'm a little bit behind. Where are you at now? My goal for this week was 25.
Speaker 1:I'm a little bit behind.
Speaker 3:Where are you at now, 10, I think 10?
Speaker 1:You've still got two days. I've still got two days.
Speaker 3:And I can bash out like 10 BD calls in a day. I mean probably even more, so I'm not concerned.
Speaker 2:Still got it in the locker. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:I mean, I've always enjoyed it and I hate admin on doing BD is just a way to avoid it. I'm like just let me ring everyone.
Speaker 1:Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of Confessions of a Recruiter brought to you by XRecruiter. Xrecruiter helps ambitious recruiters like you start, run and grow their own recruitment agency. Whether you're in blue collar, white collar, permanent or temporary recruitment, we help recruiters go from where they are today to where they want to be. So if you want to start your own agency, reach out and we'd love to help so moving to like the discovery phase, the initial meetings.
Speaker 2:Have you seen like a framework that works for you, or any things that particularly work well in your space or for you particularly?
Speaker 3:For sure. I think initially when I started, I was very much like a job taker, right, I'd get like phone calls and I'd take the brief on the phone. I'd get like phone calls and I'd take the brief on the phone, do 10 minutes, not really understand too much about the company or the culture or whatever, and it would be very much just like this is what I need. Go find it. So actually I was transactional. There you go, I was transactional. I'm a fricking liar.
Speaker 2:I'm a liar, I just cut myself out on live podcast. Yes, okay.
Speaker 3:So that was a shift that wasn't very long. I will say that I did that for there was a better way to do it.
Speaker 2:You figured it out For sure.
Speaker 3:I think it was probably just around the clients that we were working with at that time. But now we really position ourselves as absolute partners to the clients that we work with. Every single job that we get on, we qualify. It has to be on a meeting. So whether it's on Teams or whether it's in person, like it doesn't matter if I've recruited the role before, it's actually just a commitment thing.
Speaker 3:I just want to make sure that they're going to give me half an hour of their time to sit on a call with me and go through everything, even if we've recruited for them before. Because if they can't, how do I know they're going to be committed to the process? How do I know they're going to lock in interviews? So every single brief has to be done on teams or in person. Um, and I think the difference in like how I probably, how I probably go about a discovery call now, versus, like I just told you, taking a job order, was very much just like what are the requirements of the role and what kind of experience you need, whereas now, like I spend a lot of time and actually I'll just say discovery calls are not just important just for the sake of discovering the role. It's an opportunity for you to sell, like for you to understand what your pitch needs to be to client, to candidates, um, and then for interviews. So you're going to obviously get all the I shouldn't say buzz, buzz, buzzwords but, realistically, like all the things that you know that candidates, candidates, need to say in the interview, you're going to be able to feed that back to them if you have a really, really good discovery call. So we spend a lot of our time with our candidates doing interview prep calls as well and really helping them get in the mindset. So discovery call for me is not just about what the role is, it's like.
Speaker 3:Okay, so why did you join the business? So I've known this person for x years. You've just come to this company like why, what did you? What made you join? Why do you like it? Why have you stayed? How is it different to your previous company that you've worked in? Because this is, let's let's say, for example, a smaller company. So tell me a bit more about that. What sort of mindset works in that kind of environment? How do you think people would transition from this like larger corporation into this business? So I can kind of mitigate the challenges that might come up in the process. So it's very much about understanding who the hiring manager is and why they've joined and how I can basically flesh out a way to like give the candidates a full picture of everything, but also like asking them why would a candidate want to join you? And if they can't really articulate that, then I'm like hmm, give a red flag Right.
Speaker 3:So I need to have like a, something that I can go out to the candidates and say, like this is the EVP Right. So it's more than just taking the requirements Cause right now. I've been doing the job for six and a half years. I'm pretty confident that I know what this person will do and what kind of skill set they have, but I'd also want to understand, like who the company is now and where they're trying to get to. So for me it's obviously a lot of stuff is around pipeline, future products and how I can find people that might be able to add value to their business on the longer term. So I think the discovery calls for me are very much like I'm not really talking, which is a shock probably.
Speaker 2:I love that. I used to work in exactly the same way. If they wouldn't meet you. It's not a job. No, nice to say that, because it's that, going back to what you said before about the mic drop, it's got to be a two-way street.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:What are some common mistakes you see in this phase or things that people should be thinking about avoiding?
Speaker 3:Not asking enough questions. Okay, asking enough questions, like. My favourite question is why? It's probably because a lot of the time I don't know the answer to something, so I'm like, why, so I can get more information, and it buys me some time. So not asking enough questions, Like I spend so much time just letting them talk. And we have Quill, which is a note taker now, which is amazing.
Speaker 3:So I possibly can to get the person speaking as much as possible and asking them a lot of open-ended questions to really get a feel for the company who the hiring manager is, what kind of person is going to fit in. And I think like if you're not doing that, then you're missing out on things that might allow you to open up the brief more in your head. My director always says one of my best qualities is that I connect the dots really well. So often if I'm going through a process where I'm taking a brief, I'll start to think about like oh, maybe this type of person could work based on what they just said, and then that opens up another conversation and it opens up the flexibility of certain things. So I think not asking enough questions and just taking the job as an order.
Speaker 2:And is there any kind of super question that you use? I remember when I used to do it why. I just asked what is the one thing that's not on the job description that you wish for, things like that. Is there anything that you have potentially used? It can be why. Why can be the answer? I think why. Yeah, that's a great one who?
Speaker 3:what, where, when, why that's all I do. That's it. No, what there is a good question? Ah no, actually never mind. This is a different, really good question what?
Speaker 1:is it.
Speaker 3:Say it anyway so this is my favorite question in all of recruitment has anything changed since we last spoke? Yeah, the best question in the whole entire world, in my opinion, to candidates and clients and, honestly, just the way that it opens up a conversation is insane.
Speaker 1:So sorry, when do you ask that question?
Speaker 3:At every call.
Speaker 1:At the start of every call.
Speaker 3:Every call yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to ask that all the time.
Speaker 2:The recruitment process changes all the time. Yeah, you know, ask every phase.
Speaker 3:But candidate, I'm like okay, so I spoke to you 10 minutes ago, but has anything changed since you asked me 10 minutes ago?
Speaker 2:Honestly, I say to the girl've been talking to me for 10 minutes, so not really.
Speaker 3:Exactly Well, yeah, but like that's my best question in recruitment. Maybe it's not into discovery, but best question 100%.
Speaker 1:It's really good, especially if you're going through first, second, third interviews and you don't ask that You're in the third interview. You haven't spoken to them about any detail since the first and then all of a sudden, oh yeah, I've had three opportunities come up and gone and it's only about hang on a second, I spoke to you two weeks ago and you had nothing.
Speaker 3:I have actually a workflow that I've like given to my team. I like a workflow, basically. So I'm like this is what you do. So when you're getting to like, let's say, for example, I'll get her to try and close a candidate maybe four or five times before we even get to the offer and we have a process in place for like that.
Speaker 3:But literally at the top is like has anything changed since we last spoke? What's going on with your other opportunities? You said you're interviewing here. What's going on? What's going on internally? Has anything changed with your current role? That is likely for you to change your mind and maybe you might stay, get a counter offer, blah, blah, blah. So you're literally it, with even more to a point where I actually tell my candidates I'm really sorry, I know I ask you this all the time, but I just need to know, and it builds trust because I'm like I've never I very rarely would get to the end of a process where, touch wood, I couldn't get a verbal acceptance before a candidate has even actually got offered the role.
Speaker 2:So we always try to get verbal acceptance salary expectations used to change all the time because someone's going back another job.
Speaker 3:So if you're not asking about your expectations changing, yeah, checking in with the salary every time yeah, checking in with like even start date has any holidays popped up?
Speaker 2:so we, yeah, we ask a lot of questions so we've kind of jumped out of discovery a little bit, but like just to kind of put a bow on discovery, like what's the one piece of advice you'd give somebody to really nail that that phase?
Speaker 3:uh, I definitely think it's like try to understand more about the actual business and the hiring manager, um, and who they are as a person and what's going to fit in within their mold of what, what they like. So I think it's just around the questions and the probing. So if you're not asking lots of questions in a discovery call, you probably don't really know what you're actually looking for. You think you do, but you probably don't, and you're not going to get as much flexibility with certain processes if you don't.
Speaker 1:So I think just asking questions, asking why, as many times as possible in the discovery call, so the next part of this was around taking a job brief, and we've covered a fair bit of it. What I want to probably dive a little bit more deeper into is the questions that you ask outside of taking the job brief to get a bit of a needs analysis on what's actually the state of play at the company. You alluded to a couple of things before around why did you start at this company? What's the transition between a bigger business to a smaller business, this type of thing? So is this a proactive approach that you have around asking questions outside of the job brief, or where does that kind of fit in with?
Speaker 3:I'm just really curious. I think I just really like to know a lot about everyone as much as possible. But yeah, I think it's just really trying to understand a lot more about just the role and it's about understanding who that hiring manager and the team and the company is. So yeah, I've always just proactively done that. I'm quite nosy.
Speaker 1:If you didn't do that, how would that affect your recruitment process? If you only asked about the job brief and then you went away and then you had to talk to a candidate, screen them on the role, sell them the role, et cetera. Where do you think you would fall short from not asking those?
Speaker 3:questions, probably every part of the process, particularly when we're working with a smaller company, right? Because, like to give you an example, one of the guys that we're working with at the moment is a very small full-time headcount here in Australia and the candidates that I'm engaging have seen the adverts posted, because they posted it a couple of months ago, trying to go internally first, and they're like well, let me tell you why you should apply and then I'll give them. Honestly, I'll say I'm going to talk at you for like five minutes or so, but I want to give you as much information as possible about the role, about the hiring manager, about the company, who they are now, where they're going to and what they're trying to achieve and why this role is so important. And I'm getting like A grade candidates.
Speaker 3:The hiring manager was like we have four that we've not seen through the job advert and I'm like, yeah, because they know everything that they need to, they're prepped, ready to go in the interview, they know exactly what they're getting themselves into and they know kind of what to say and how to position themselves. So I think if I didn't ask some questions about like oh God, I nearly said her name about the hiring manager and why she like, for example, she worked in quite a large organization before she's like, oh, this is so much work but I've never felt so much value in my whole entire life. And I say to candidates she said, you know, she's never worked so hard in her life but she's feeling so much value and they might be in a similar situation like that's tick right. So it's these little extra bits that probably a lot of people maybe don't do, but I try to find as many like points as to why somebody would want to join a business outside of it just being the role.
Speaker 2:It just brings it to life more, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's a story right, yeah, yeah, that was going to be my next question. Like where do you feel the average recruiter falls away when taking a job? Brief, like what are the-.
Speaker 3:That exact point. The detail Like I'm extremely detailed about everything, like I could probably reel off that pitch to you right now because I remember everything about-.
Speaker 1:Go for it. Role play I know you said you love role play.
Speaker 3:Not doing it. No, if anyone-.
Speaker 3:But yeah basically, I could tell you how many headcount, I could tell you everything about that company and I could do it from anywhere, off my horse, sometimes on a pitch, and roll genuinely, genuinely, um. So I think it's the, that's the detail piece. Um, people don't like, they don't have any question marks when I speak to them. If they do, I'm like that's a great question, let's get you in for an interview and you can ask a hiring manager directly. So I think that's probably one piece is, if you don't know all the information, there's no way that you can sell the opportunity to all the candidates that you do because, like some candidates would just see that role or hear about that company. I don't know who they are, they don't have much of a presence. No, I'm not interested.
Speaker 3:But I can tell you okay, well, that's fine, but let me tell you this full picture. So I think having the whole picture definitely helps.
Speaker 2:Do you think it helps when they've got an opinion about the company? Oh I can't remember They've. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 3:I'm like come on Okay, so often I'll get where. They're like oh no, they don't have a good name in the industry. I'm like, okay, why? Who have you heard that? From? What have you been told in the industry? I'm like, okay, well, I'm just going to tell you to like, keep an open mind and remember that there's a lot of people that will go through different companies and have a bad experience and then you're taking that information. But that's not. They might just have not got on with the hiring manager. So, like a lot of people and I've had candidates turn around where they've gone through the process and then they've got the job, and if I didn't call them and explain or be able to answer some of the questions or objections they had because I know a lot about the company I can push back and say, no, no, that's not true. Let me tell you why.
Speaker 1:I've placed 21 people with them now, the culture is not bad, so it's stuff like that that, I think, definitely helps as well yeah, totally, and just the last. Thing around job briefs? Yep, are you okay doing them over the phone? Do you have to meet the client? I mean do you do it in person, over video call, like what's what's generally the video or in person okay. Would you push for in person first, or would you just go yeah, push for in person where possible.
Speaker 3:If they're based in sydney, we want to try and meet them in person as much as possible. But we meet our clients a lot. We'll take them out for lunches and stuff when we can, so I love getting out of the office Nice.
Speaker 2:Love that when possible. We kind of got into objections a little bit there, yeah, and I can probably guess what you're going to say with. You asked why, but do you have a set kind of framework you follow when there are objections or why?
Speaker 3:yeah, um, I welcome them. I don't mind an objection. I'm like, give it to me. I like when I said to you, when I first started in that life insurance job, my manager used to tap into our phones and so he would listen to the conversation, that the person on the other end of the phone was saying whatever, and I would just mimic what he would say and I was like so I actually learned in that way how to objection handle and he was just in the background like why, why?
Speaker 3:why? Um, I welcome them, I'm not afraid of them at all, I sit with them. I think the biggest thing is that people always just try to sell to them and I'm like, no, don't sell probe, find it more. Because like, for example, somebody, somebody would tell you I have a psl. Well, you could very easily just be like, okay, cool, you got a psl. But I'm like okay, great cool. Tell me more, how's it going why did you choose those?
Speaker 2:yeah, why, how long does that?
Speaker 3:last for like has process been like, what happens when you can't fill it via your PSL? Oh, what do you do then?
Speaker 2:me, yeah, yeah, so I, I'm, yeah, I love it, I love an objection have you got a story where it's hard no in the initial few calls and you've turned that into uh all of the clients that I've signed up for the last, pretty much all of them have all been like no, like I said to you, there's a massive account that we're working with.
Speaker 3:well, hopefully that we're going to sign on this week. That's been a no for six years.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And now we'll hopefully get them on board. I pitched for the business God how many times Probably four or five times, and now we're starting to work on them, which is going to be quite big for us. It's a big, big account. Two of the accounts I've signed up, like I said to you this year that were six years worth of no's Six years worth of no's, it's all good, don't worry about it. And then probably my one of my biggest accounts, which is the one I mentioned people with initially. When I started working with them, it was the first company that I'd come into iFarm and said I want to work with them. I didn't really know why. I think because my friend worked there and it sounded really cool.
Speaker 3:I was like yeah, I want to work with them, um, but we were given the opportunity but not very good roles and it was like the roles basically that none of the other recruiters could fill. This is like when we would work on a PSL of six or other agencies and now we've placed 21 people with them because there was like a pivotal moment in that relationship. I placed a like a regional sales manager and from there on it opened it up completely because they understood that, okay, I can actually get really good talent into the business quick and they're briefed, they're assessed, they're qualified, they're interested and they got the job and then, pretty much from there onwards, we've placed like 21 people so yeah, like getting no is fine and obviously you're relentless, which we can kind of pick up.
Speaker 3:But are there any objections that you quite like hearing, because you know, yeah, you like that one, just for those kind of how you asked that before. Yeah, and I also be like, but I don't want to be on your psl. And they're like, oh like, yeah, we operate outside it for niche roles difficult to fill, like obviously we're on a couple of PSL, which is fine, um, but it's not like a PSL with six or seven agencies, it's usually just two. So the PSL one's good, I like that one, we're happy with the process. Oh, that's amazing why what's going so well?
Speaker 2:like again, it's a lot of questions, but I, yeah, I don't mind them at all and biggest piece of advice you give to a recruiter who because I know when you you're say just live with it. Just sit with the objections and you'll get past it.
Speaker 1:Just have the vial in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, call another person Because it's you know, when you're fairly early in your career, you're like oh, it's no. Unless you can think on the spot for the answer, it's quite hard, which is why you ask why.
Speaker 3:Yeah on. It's like sit with them, welcome them. They're potentially buying sign. I'd rather somebody object then hang up the phone, yeah, or I'd rather actually get somebody on the phone and have a few objections and then just keep calling for six years and then eventually the very first objections are now clients. Yeah, so that's my mindset what about fees?
Speaker 1:what about fees? How do you handle objections with fees?
Speaker 3:oh, we get them all the time so what's your average fee rate?
Speaker 3:so it's really interesting. When I first started ifarm um, we used ask what do you work out with other agencies? Big no, no, big no, no. But that was always what we did right. So I was like what do you work out with other agencies? That obviously always gave them the opportunity to say the lowest frigging price whatsoever, but we were always very firm and we had a certain number that we wouldn't go below um. And then I think it was a couple of years ago I read was it never split the difference?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, I think. And then I had this light bulb moment. I was like why am I asking them what they work at with other agencies? That is so stupid. And then I basically was like we work at 20 and wait for them to object.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pretty much and it's so hard because I'm like I can imagine for you, like you got even that.
Speaker 3:I was like I hate the silence, I hate it, but I'm learning okay, so.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you're doing a discovery, taking a job brief, you're getting excited about this role. You say we work at 20. They say we work with other agencies at 12 yep how do you kind of?
Speaker 3:I just say no sorry, I'm never going to work at that level, so just keep going with what you've got.
Speaker 1:But what if you're desperate and you need to hit your threshold? I don't care how desperate I am.
Speaker 3:I will never, in a million years, work at 12% in a million years, no way 12%.
Speaker 1:That's awful. 12% of something is better than 100% of others.
Speaker 3:I'd rather else I could be doing business development too. That's going to pay me for the value that I bring, which is absolutely not worth 12% new.
Speaker 2:Thank you that was the answer right there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so so 20% kind of where you work we can be flexible.
Speaker 3:We obviously take into consideration things like what potential is within the business from a volume perspective.
Speaker 3:I love to cross sell, so there is there opportunities for other guys within my team to get an opportunity to work roles, because we pretty much cover every area in life sciences that you can um.
Speaker 3:So it's like a whole holistic picture and I'll never make a decision on the spot. I'm like, okay, I need to go off and think about this and see what I could do. I'll speak to one of the other directors and come back to you and like, yes, I can be flexible, but like I really value the service that I bring and I truly believe that it's worth what we, what we charge. And if a client sees that value, they just they can understand it. And a lot of the clients that we work with like they're also in sales, right, so they're going to have similar challenges to us around their competitors coming in. And if the only thing that you can negotiate on or get a client over the line on is price, well I don't know if I really want to work with you and and if you've outlined the level of the service you're going to deliver, it's like.
Speaker 3:Well, which part of this service do you want, what's important to you and actually, that was something that I started to do as well in an initial call about terms. Rather than asking them like about price or whatever I'm like, what is important to you when it comes to recruiting Is it to get top quality candidates.
Speaker 2:Is it to pay a really cheap fee, and no one wants to be the cheap arse that says pay a really cheap fee.
Speaker 3:because then I'm like okay, so quality candidate's not important to you, so you're kind of like you make them think about what they're saying, and then it's you know.
Speaker 1:That was actually going to be my next question. Aside from fees, are there any other ways that you try and negotiate and get deals over the line?
Speaker 3:That exact part. Yeah, so like extended. Well, okay, so standard guarantee period in Australia is what? 10 weeks for most of the roles. I really don't want to say this, but I'm like we have started to extend.
Speaker 1:It's confessions of a recruiter Molly, let's go.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah.
Speaker 1:I used to do that as well.
Speaker 3:We used to do that, but for retained work where I'm absolutely confident, like obviously you don't want to be offering out six month guarantees to absolutely everyone. I mean, you shouldn't be working with clients that it won't last for six months anyway. But when we started to want to try and do more retained work, I was like, oh okay, well, why don't I offer an extended guarantee period? Because I'm so confident in the candidates that I'm bringing across. I'm completely mapping out the whole market. That six-month guarantee is not really going to impact me, but it's going to help the client feel more comfortable with working with us.
Speaker 2:And they're going to see.
Speaker 3:okay, I actually think she really cares about finding the right people for the business. So, to work with me on a retained basis, we offer a six-month guarantee period. I'm letting all my secrets out now.
Speaker 1:I hope none of my competitors listen to me everyone hearing this molly does six month guarantee periods, that's what you can go for straight up 12 percent. Yeah, they'll be like two year guarantees okay, you know, I actually offered someone a one-year guarantee period once, because I was so confident really this is for anz bank and it was for a mobile lender and the guy lasted 340 left and they hit me up for the replacement and I thought you're kidding me. I can't believe this.
Speaker 3:Well, Maeve on my team used to do a lot of execs or stuff in Ireland in the manufacturing space of Life Sciences and I mean generally speaking for a senior hire. They would do like nine to 12 month guarantee periods. I mean it really gives the client from a client perspective like okay. So if somebody said to me, do you want to buy this really crap cheap dishwasher for 10 bucks but you get no guarantee, or do you want to pay $100 and if it breaks in a year we'll replace it for free?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I definitely know what I'd choose because, how often do you take that $10, what do you call it? Wash machine away and it's broken as soon as you get it out.
Speaker 1:Totally so.
Speaker 3:I know what I would value as a client. Yeah, so I know what.
Speaker 2:I would value as a client. Yeah, and if you ask them what's the most valuable thing to them at that time, then yeah, it does make sense.
Speaker 1:And lastly, on the fees. What's the number one piece of advice for a recruiter to get their fees higher?
Speaker 3:I think stop asking questions about what other agencies are working at and if they are telling you that other agencies are working at lower rates than you then that's actually fine, I don't want to work with you if that's the case. Like I said, I'm flexible in some ways, depending on the size of the company and like what their revenue is, and I understand from a perspective of not everybody can pay 40K for a placement. But you know, I would just be firm.
Speaker 1:It's just such an easy thing to say when someone's looking at your terms and going, oh geez, 20%. And then it's just such a easy thing to fall in the trap of oh well, you know what are you used to paying? And then all of a sudden, you've just cut your fees in half.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always just say we do reduce our fees, but it's for multiple roles, retained work yeah, that's it. Which one is it?
Speaker 3:actually yes, so we've also um increased our contingent rates as well, so that you can see that if you go retained, it is slightly cheaper as well. Yeah, yeah, I love that, so that might help.
Speaker 1:Love that.
Speaker 3:Make your other fees higher and then makes the other stuff look better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. The one thing, the one key takeaway from this podcast. What do you reckon it is?
Speaker 3:Ask why that's the theme of the podcast.
Speaker 1:I knew it was going to be that BD machine. Why I?
Speaker 3:get a bit fixated with things, as you can probably tell Something weird going on in there. Yeah, it's probably just around like knowing your worth, knowing your value, being able to step away from things and saying no to companies that are not aligned to you anymore and actually that just fundamentally don't respect you. Don't work with no commitment clients, because that's just wasting your time. Try and do retained where possible, because I've seen retained this year as a big mindset shift for me. We possible because I've seen retained this year as a big mindset shift for me. We didn't do anything really in retained over the last years and I've had multiple frustrations over it over the last years, when things exclusive roles just happen to fall through. So try and go retain where possible and once you get a few over the line, you'll understand why they're so much better. What else do BD every day, even if it's for an hour? That's it.
Speaker 2:Love it. Perfect, that was awesome. Yeah, love that.
Speaker 1:All right, are you ready for our game? I'm nervous.
Speaker 2:I've had a bit of a bad run recently. I don't know what the overall speed is.
Speaker 3:What's the theme? What's the theme?
Speaker 1:I don't know. It's recruitment.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Recruitment. They're not super technical, don't ask me questions.
Speaker 1:Molly, I don't know anything, so the rules are it's best of five. I will ask the question. It's multiple choice A, b, c or D. If you think you know the answer before I'm finished, you can just go, molly.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:And then answer it.
Speaker 2:I reckon you're going to do that? Why, yeah, how.
Speaker 1:Which firm was founded in the UK in 1968 as a construction company? A Hayes, B Michael Page, C. Korn Ferry, D Manpower Group, Ed.
Speaker 3:I forgot my name. I forgot my name, I was going to say A Shit. Okay, go on. Hayes, correct. Yes, I was going to say Hayes.
Speaker 2:Oh, you should on Hayes, correct, yes.
Speaker 3:I was going to say Hayes.
Speaker 1:Oh, you should have remembered your name, Molly.
Speaker 3:I remember my name.
Speaker 1:Okay, question two Are we ready?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Molly Practice, which company was originally founded to serve the US legal staffing market. A Robert Half.
Speaker 2:Ed Robert Half.
Speaker 1:Robert Half is right.
Speaker 3:That's who I. That was my first recruitment interview.
Speaker 1:Really. Oh, there you go.
Speaker 3:I'm feeling this quiz might be a bit ageist.
Speaker 1:Thank you, All right, I got this one. I got this one. Are you saying, ed's all? Yeah, robert.
Speaker 2:Half was in from the 1940s or something.
Speaker 1:Which one of these is not a recruitment KPI A Time to fill, b Cost per hire. C Bounce rate, d Offer to acceptance ratio. Molly Molly.
Speaker 3:Oh, I forgot the Molly Wait, Molly Bounce rate Correct.
Speaker 1:I would have gone for that as well.
Speaker 3:What is bounce rate? Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's definitely not a KPI what. I'd have gone for that as well. What was the bounce rate? Yeah, I don't know, it's definitely not a.
Speaker 1:KPI. What does CRM stand for?
Speaker 3:Oh Molly, Customer Relationship Management.
Speaker 1:Bullshit. Good job, we're out of the 1960s questions and we're into the 2000s.
Speaker 2:We didn't have CRMs when I was on the tools.
Speaker 1:In which of the following films does Gerard Butler play a recruiter? A Law-abiding citizen? B Olympus has fallen. C A family man.
Speaker 2:Ed a family man? I don't know A family man. The reason I know that is I was at Michael Page in New York and he was walking around the office learning about recruitment.
Speaker 3:No no.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, what's that other film where she's a headhunter and I can't remember what it is?
Speaker 1:That's um, and it was with Justin Timberlake.
Speaker 3:Was it? Yeah, she was headhunting.
Speaker 1:Justin Timberlake? Oh, mila Kunis or something. Yeah, bonus point Glover. All right, congratulations, ed. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Wow-ee, I'm a 1-1. Molly's got to do a shot of whiskey.
Speaker 1:A shot of whiskey, no yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm not drinking at the moment. I did one at 10 am.
Speaker 2:Can't do it. I'll tell you what Because you're not drinking. You can do it on her behalf, that's fair.
Speaker 3:What sauce?
Speaker 1:we don't have hot sauce here. That's why it's been, that's why it's been whiskey, so, so why don't we do this? You've got to send us in a video okay you've got to go somewhere and buy it the hottest sauce you can find and you've and you've got to film yourself taking a shot of it, okay, and you've got to send it to us so we can stitch it in the video yeah, that's an after that's better deal, fine, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the guys in the office will get a great laugh out of that as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the last thing we're going to do is diary of a recruiter. So every recruiter that jumps on the pod writes down a question for the next guest to answer.
Speaker 3:Oh, I do this all the time.
Speaker 1:You've got to read it out loud so everyone knows what the question is that you're? Answering.
Speaker 2:I do it all the time. I do it all the time. That's it, you don't need.
Speaker 3:Recruiters have an unfair reputation for simply wanting to make money. What is the best example you can share where you have truly helped someone in your career? Actually, I have a real life example right today. I will always have. Like, I spend a lot of time, obviously, like I said, looking at like what's going on in the market, who's hiring, etc.
Speaker 3:And if I know fundamentally I cannot get in with a company, I will send leads to candidates and say go and apply here's, who you could call here's, who you could call here's, who I know in the industry. If I speak to them I'll put in a good word. I always do. I always think that like okay, so at one point, if they get in there in that role, then they could be hiring manager and help me get into that company in the future. So that's where the mindset piece comes. But there was a candidate who's literally started in a new job today with one of the clients. That took me six years to get on. Um, both Maeve and I were recruiting the role. We had a bunch of CVs and I knew that he had applied directly and I literally was like to the hiring manager.
Speaker 3:I know he's got in the mix, I know who's number one and he's yeah perfect, he's unbelievable, and I had other candidates as well that were also really good. But, um, I knew he was very, very strong and, like I had no problem with saying that to hiring manager and he, he actually texted me. What did he text me about? Let me read out to you, applying directly I know was shitty for you, but I won't forget you putting in a good word for me, thank you.
Speaker 1:That's good. I do that all the time. That's good, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's a long game. Right there it is yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love it. Exciting talking about BD, prospecting job briefs we've covered it all yep, so thank you.
Speaker 2:Molly the gun. Thank you, good to meet you, yes.