Confessions of a Recruiter
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Confessions of a Recruiter
Mastering Candidate Experience: Insurance industry | COAR S2-EP3
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Most recruiters treat candidate experience as an afterthought. Nathan and Jett from Impact Talent have made it their competitive advantage.
In this episode of Confessions of a Recruiter, the co-founders of Impact Talent break down exactly how they've mastered candidate experience in one of Australia's most relationship-driven industries — insurance.
From the moment they make first contact to the final offer, Nathan and Jett share the frameworks, conversations, and mindset shifts that have helped them build a reputation where candidates actively want to work with them. We cover why setting clear expectations from day one changes everything, how they deliver honest feedback without burning bridges, the "accept on your behalf" close that transformed their offer success rate, and why pulling a candidate from a process is sometimes the most powerful thing you can do.
If you've ever lost a placement at the offer stage, had a candidate ghost you, or struggled to stand out in a crowded market — this episode will change the way you operate.
Impact Talent specialises in placing insurance brokers, claims managers, underwriters, and loss adjusters across Australia.
Do not miss this episode!
· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
Welcome back to Confessions of a Recruiter. We are joined by the one and only Impact Talent.
SPEAKER_03:We're with Nathan and Jet. One of my colleagues at the real estate agent was like, you'd be really good in recruitment. I'd never heard of recruitment before. Called up Nathan and um he didn't answer. Typical recruiter.
SPEAKER_01:Last time I was on this potty, actually, I got the itch and I was like, ooh, what should I do next? Maybe I'll launch a business. Don't want to do it by myself. Feel like I just need someone to do this with and be on the journey with and maybe hold myself accountable a little bit as well. Tapp Dad on the shoulder. Thankfully he said, yep, let's do it. You made a comment before.
SPEAKER_05:You said, I feel like we don't do anything too special, but we just do it really well.
SPEAKER_01:Our strategy was put ourselves everywhere so that as many people know our names, our brand, through personal branding on LinkedIn. What that's done over time is, I guess, generated people and inbound leads.
SPEAKER_03:What are you actually posting? You know, you might be able to reach, you know, 10, 20, 30, 50,000 people with just one post. I think it would take me years to call 50,000 people.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, yeah, 100%. Now, before we leave, we've got a game. I can't wait. Thanks for coming on, boys. It's good to be here. Thanks to being here. Yeah. Now we actually did a LinkedIn Live only a couple of weeks ago, depending on when someone hears this, just about your journey on starting impact talent, that type of thing. But for those who weren't dialed into that LinkedIn live, why don't you guys give us a little bit of background on who you are, your business, and what you focus on?
SPEAKER_01:So I joined recruitment industry five years ago. Prior to that came from a sales background. Um prior to that came from a hospitality background and moved overseas for like seven years, came back, had the travel bug, did the travel thing, went into travel sales, sold some holidays, COVID happened, that went to shit. Can I say that on here? Of course. Well, confessions for a reason. So yeah, that that went awful. Left that, got into gym sales for like six months. Okay. Worst job of my life. Really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I feel like you look like a pretty good gym sales.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I love the gym, but don't like don't like sell it to gym people. Just awful, just like transactional. Get them across the line, don't speak to them again. So it's yeah, not fun. So then got into recruitment five years ago, um, started recruiting for the general insurance industry. Um, and over that time became a director of a team, had a team of 12 at one point. Um, Jet was one of those people at one point, so we worked together for a couple of years. And it was last time I was on this potty actually that I got the itch, and I was like, ooh, what should I do next? Maybe I'll launch a business. Don't want to do it by myself. Feel like I just need someone to do this with and be on the journey with and maybe hold myself accountable a little bit as well. Um, tapped Jet on the shoulder. Thankfully, he said, yep, let's do it. And uh, we've been, yeah, launched Impact Talent 12 months ago. Um, just had our first birthday, had a cracker of a first year that we're really proud of, and here we are in the potty seat.
SPEAKER_05:Hey, that was such a good chronology of nailed it. Yeah, where you're at and where you are today. Um Jet, what about you? Where were you before recruitment?
SPEAKER_03:Well, my career is not as extensive. Uh I've gone back all the years. Um, started Maccas, which was great. You get really good foundations in in fast food, I would say. And then hospitality, and then I got into real estate because I was like, I think I'm good at talking to people. I like the sort of salesy kind of role when I was in school. Um so studied that, got into real estate. Wasn't for me, um, just wasn't a very good industry. I just like sales, like selling property or yeah, I just feel like the whole process was very like both parties weren't really happy with the real estate agent because you've got the sellers and they're like, they're just trying to get all the money that they can. And you've got all the buyers who are like, they're just trying to get all my price up. And everyone throughout the whole transaction of real estate is just not happy with the real estate agent. So I was like, I just I just don't know that's me. A little bit toxic kind of you know, industry. So I was like, you know, having thoughts of going into something else, and then one of my colleagues at the real estate agent was like, um, you'd be really good in recruitment. And I was I'd never heard of recruitment before, and um called up Nathan on a Friday. They didn't work Fridays at the time, but called up Nathan and um he didn't answer.
SPEAKER_04:Typical recruiter.
SPEAKER_03:Because because they did he did he didn't answer on on the Friday, and then I I think I heard back from him on Monday, came in for the interview, um, and then he was like, You're gonna do it with me. And I'm like, if I'm working with the director of of the branch, I'm you know, I think I'll be doing pretty good. So I was pretty sold. Um and then did insurance with Nathan and then you know, had a long lunch, and then Nathan was like, You you know, you want to come out and do this by yourself. And even when I was a kid, I was like, you know, I always want to work for myself, you know, at the end of my career, I always want to be like doing my own thing. And so when Nathan said that, I was like, Oh, this is perfect. This is like, you know, the opportunity to go out and do it for yourself, um, you know, has come up, so why not do it? And then yeah, launch Up Talent. Yeah, January 2025, and yeah, 12 months.
SPEAKER_05:And had a cracking first 12 months.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, was it what you expected, more or less? I think the biggest thing is at the beginning, you you launch a business and you think something's gonna change. Like you just feel like there maybe there'll be some like, I don't know, aura around you, and you're like, I'm a business owner now, like something's gonna change, but actually nothing changes at all, and you're like, shit, it's just me now. It's all on me. I've got to regenerate everything. And I don't know. I think we we achieved what we wanted to achieve in our first year, so we're really proud of that. Was it a slog? 110% it was a slog. Um but yeah, I think it's I think it's turned out to what we were hoping it would.
SPEAKER_05:So it's it's funny you say that. I was having a chat to Lexi at Vendito, and uh I was like, how is it, you know, being an official business owner? She goes, it's just more fucking admin. Like, I'm not any more special than I ever was, I just got more shit to deal with some.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I was like, oh yeah, that's that sounds about right.
SPEAKER_05:Like when you when you put business owners on a pedestal, you're like, you've got some sort of secret source that I don't. And then you realize, oh mate, you're just doing a lot of admin after hours to try and catch up on shit. Um no, that's awesome. It's super impressive, Impact Talent. Um, so talk to us about what impact talent recruit. I know you mentioned you came from insurance. Is impact talent recruiting an insurance? And like what like what is that? Like what positions are we talking? Like, can you give us some context on this?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so we recruit for four things mainly, which is insurance brokers, claims managers, underwriters, and loss adjusters. Um, so those are the four things. So your insurance brokers is the one that's you know negotiating between um someone who's wanting to get something insured and the insurers and finding the best deal. Kind of like a mortgage broker. Claims managers are the ones who are, you know, handling the claims.
SPEAKER_05:They're the ones rejecting you.
SPEAKER_03:You've got to be a certain kind of person to do claims, but you've got to have thick skin because you're usually dealing with people in conversations where you know it's usually very difficult times, like um a lot of stuff comes home with you. So a claims manager is very different to an insurance broker. Um, underwriters are very technical and analytical, they're a bit more involved with obviously writing the the policies, so they're more technically minded, but they're all still kind of in a sales industry. I guess underwriters and and brokers and then loss adjusters are just claims people that are out in the road and um actually going to the high value claims and all of that. So that's that's what we recruit for. That's our bread and butter. And interesting.
SPEAKER_05:You you've actually defined it really well. Um, so sometimes when I ask that question, the I get varied responses from recruiters, recruiting agency owners is like, ah, well, you know, I'll just pick up a job and I'll get a referral and I'll do a bit of that. So was there any like deliberate focus around these four positions? Like what is there, what's the reason why you're only choosing those four positions or it's not really a focus, it's just mainly how the the industry is divided up.
SPEAKER_01:So you've got you've got these four, we'll call them pillars of different roles within the industry, but then you've got different levels that kind of fit within each each um pillar. So like your brokers could be an assistant, they could be a broker, they could be a senior, they could be a team leader, an account director. So there's different levels within there, and it's kind of just the main roles that we recruit for. That's probably the easiest way to describe it.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, gotcha. No, that makes a lot of sense. Um now this season is all about candidate attraction. Uh, and you made a comment before that we started airing, and you said, I feel like we don't do anything too special, but we just do it really well. So I I want to start there. So so so firstly, like what is candidate attraction to you? Is is do you have a deliberate focus to attract or get in front of candidates and maybe to give context, you know, sales recruiter? I don't really care that much about candidates. I'm trying to find clients. Um, and as soon as I've got a client, then I'll just smash as many candidates as I can and try and get the fee. Whereas some other industries are reverse, it's like, no, make sure you know all the candidates and you know float them in, that type of thing. But you know, as a transactional sales recruiter, candidate attraction or thinking about how to like engage good candidates was never really a thing. So what's that like for you guys? Nathan, I'll I'll give that to you first.
SPEAKER_01:I think when you think of candidates, clients as well, but candidates, so you've got the two sides. So you've got your your chase mentality, you've got your attract mental mentality. So chasing them is where you're constantly following them up, probably annoying them to some degree, and just can consistently trying to, I guess, get them to work with you. But I feel like if you continue to do that forever, you are just going to annoy people over a set amount of time. So you need to have some sort of um, I guess, tool that helps or generates people coming towards you. Um and so candidate attraction for us is what are we doing which makes people want to work with us or subconsciously when they are looking for a new role, they think Nathan and Jet or they think impact talent. And so when we launched, we were very deliberate because we we were in a period of where no one knew who we were outside of Queensland and looking at a new market. So uh our strategy was put ourselves everywhere so that as many people know our names, our brand, um, through personal branding on LinkedIn. And then what that's done over time is I guess generated people and inbound leads. So what is it that we specifically do? I guess we're very deliberate on. That's the yeah, the million dollar question. So I think we're just very deliberate with our LinkedIn presence, um, putting ourselves out there, and there's there's so many forms of content that you can do that in. Um, and I think over an extended period of time by doing the same thing repeatedly, when people are ready, you are hopefully the first point or first person they think of. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_03:I would say that I'd say that's definitely like the goal. Like you at the end of the day, if you like dumb down or like really bring it to a point on what we're trying to do, when either that's a candidate or a client thinking about recruitment, our goal is to be the first person they think about when that happens. So that really um presence on on LinkedIn um and being really out there and you know okay.
SPEAKER_05:So let's dive into that because you make a really good point, and you said before that um it's like a little bit um it's it's different where you you call someone and you say, Oh, it's Jet from Impact Talent, and they're like, Oh, I know who you are. Um so so for someone that's listening and they're going, I love the sound of that, like I want to be um the first person that my niche thinks of when they think of recruitment. Um, Jet, like what are you actually posting? Is there like some sort of like secret source around you know, a process, a structure, a topic? Like, what is it that you post specifically?
SPEAKER_03:I think it's just adding value. It's it's you know, you can post about you know what I do, the jobs I'm recruiting for, the reviews I'm getting, whatever, but you can really tell the difference, the value adding and the you know impressions you can get and and the people you know that will see your content when you're just adding value and it has nothing to do with what you do as a recruiter. So a lot of our content is very focused on the insurance industry. It could be about like recruitment tips or whatnot, but there's nothing usually at the end of you know our posts or whatever we're putting out there saying, if you're looking for a new job, call me on this number or whatever. Like we will still post our roles, you know, if we get a review and stuff like that as well, um, and stuff about our business, but it's mainly just you know adding value because you're really building like a parasocial relationship with these people because they're they're seeing you content every morning because we're posting in the morning and you know, before work, they'll they'll see what we're posting, and then you know, over time they'll just naturally be thinking of our names, and then when the time comes and you know, we actually end up calling them. Most of the time, like a lot of the time now, it's very much oh, I see yourself all the time on on LinkedIn and all your content. And it's um it's something that's quite new for us because that didn't used to be the case. Um, but like pro 70% of the calls we make these days to maybe new people that we haven't engaged with already know our name, which it's just a weird feeling. Um, and you know, you might be able to reach you know 10, 20, 30, 50,000 people with just one post. Um I think it would take me years to call 50,000 people.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, yeah, 100%. I don't know, mate. You're pretty good. Don't save yourself short. So um I I'm just putting myself into a recruiter's shoes right now, and what I'm hearing is uh post uh valuable content, um, follow it up with the outbound activity so it doesn't replace it, but it like it almost um is accompanied with the outbound activity. When you say adding value, what is that? Like what do you how are you adding value? Especially if I'm a recruiter and I'm sitting here and I'm like, I've got no value to add. I'm a little bit, I've got a bit of creative, you know, um writer's block. Um how how do you how do you find value to to share? Like what is is that a process? Is that a what is that?
SPEAKER_01:I think the hardest part for us, because neither of us have uh industry knowledge from working in insurance before, that was the hardest part. So we had to think of a way of how do we, I guess, get what we're hearing from clients and candidates into our content so that then it resonates with people. And so one of the things we did last year was we we thought, how can we how can we reach mass people with any one post? And so we started uh an inspiring insurance podcast. And what we started doing was um interviewing candidates and clients or people that we knew within the industry or people who are well kind of uh known on on social media and getting them in front of the camera. You interview them, they share their top tips and tricks, therefore it's us still in front of the camera, they're giving the free value, but then you go and post the content, everyone who knows them sees the content, they then share the content, and next thing you've got 40 to 50,000 people who've seen the content. And so when we call someone and someone goes, Oh, I know who you are, it kind of makes sense now. Um, that was one of the things for creating free value and just re-replicating the conversations that you're having on a day-to-day with your clients and candidates. Like if you hear something about a pain point or a problem, you know that that's an instant post that you can recreate for to speak to your target audience of insurance broken clients. Or if you hear something from a candidate and they say, I've learnt this in the industry recently, repurpose that, and that's gonna speak to your target audience of candidates. So it's just yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It's it's an awesome uh framing because um I think a lot of recruiters have a lot of conversations every day with clients and candidates, they do get a lot of market insights, but they don't attach that to value. Um, and and so like I see I kind of I know what you guys share from a value piece, but it was it's interesting asking your perspective of what you share too, and for people to go through that discovery in in this podcast, because when I see you guys post, like, oh, I spoke to a claims manager today, and he said this, this, and this, and he was like really shitty about this, this, and this. Like, it doesn't have to be value, as in like, oh, this is worth 50 bucks, and I'm gonna give you a free tool or resource. Like, sometimes you know, people think value, it's like, oh, what what are you building or creating for someone to get lean in with value? And it could simply be like the conversations that you're having that help other people have these like micro learnings, and they go, Oh, fuck yeah, I've I experienced that in my role too, actually. And then that's really the value piece is sharing that those con that context and perspective of these conversations. So um, yeah, I think you guys do a really good job of it, and I've always wanted to do more of it myself. I'm just gonna be a bit selfish here and talk about me. Sometimes what I fail with and what I admire about you two boys is you've got this really good connection between knowing you need to do it and then doing it. It's like it's like really impressive because like I sit there and I have these conversations, I'm like, oh, that's a great post, I need to talk about that. But then there's a fallover in the execution. So, do you have any strategies or ways that you've tried to reconfigure your brain to go, that's a post, write that down, come back that to that later. This is the day that I write my post. Like, is there any process that helps just move the needle in posting about your conversations?
SPEAKER_01:I think the most important thing is when you hear something, like your brain just triggers it and you're like, that would be really, really good. People will people will gravitate to that sort of information. So you've got to you've got to write it down at the time so that you remember to regenerate something around it. But the hardest part of it is literally finding the time because if you've got to craft something, so the best thing to do is like on a Friday afternoon reschedule everything um for the following week. So you just take an hour, you write all your content, you pervert you um schedule it for the next week. Like that's that's probably the biggest tip I can give anyone, otherwise it's so hard.
SPEAKER_05:You know what? It doesn't need to be like some crazy unique thing that no one can do, but it's it's literally just the little simple things that sometimes fall away. You're about to say something?
SPEAKER_03:I was gonna say we have a pretty unique position in the industry, like as recruiters. We're kind of like in the industry, but we're not we're kind of on the outside. So we hear all these tidbits that I feel like a lot of people in the industry are very not in their like little bubble, but there's just so many things that we know that we like we would assume they would know, but they're all you know in their own little bubble, whatever part of the industry that is that they're in. So when we're speaking with candidates and knowing what they're looking for and speaking with clients and what you know what they want, um, these conversations aren't being had most of the time with them. So we get all this information that you know is kind of hard for people in the industry to get. Um so I think the the content that we um are able to put out is a bit more unique in perspective. So we'll be meeting with a client or a candidate and they'll say something like, oh, we've got a post about that. So that's why it's pretty targeted stuff towards the insurance industry because yeah, we get these perspectives that these conversations don't normally come up between you know candidates and and clients as well.
SPEAKER_05:Um so yeah, that we get a lot of information that yeah, they don't typically it's the one thing that I don't think recruiters do well enough is share the stories of the clients and candidate conversations that they have, and you guys have really nailed that. Um, what about um like a topic to talk about that attracts candidates? Have you seen any themes or or um patterns that every time I share something to do with this topic, this scenario, this circumstance, we start to get a lot of engagement and activity. Is there anything in particular that stands out?
SPEAKER_01:You know what the one thing that probably stands out at the moment is when you really, really switch things up so you can be like insurance, insurance, insurance, insurance, insurance for two weeks, and then the one day you do a personal post, it blows up. Because people resonate with the personal post, and then next minute you've got, I mean, you shouldn't focus on vanity metrics because likes are dislikes, but that's not how you really measure it. You need to focus on the impressions. But the moment you do that, the likes go up, therefore the impressions go up. And I've really noticed that throwing one of those in every now and then it just keeps you human and people love that shit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you've always got to be mixing it up. You you can't be posting the same stuff, you'll just see like the impressions or the engagements from people, it'll just start to decline. So you've got to throw in obviously like a personal post, you know, maybe stuff about the business that's not related to like jobs or whatever. So you you do have to mix it up. It's definitely a part of the job they don't sort of advertise about recruitment that is a massive thing. Um, that sort of marketing part that you know most people coming into recruitment don't come from a marketing background, but it's I think it's yeah, something that we have really focused on over the last 12 months.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Like it doesn't all have to be strictly business. Um so I don't know if you guys have noticed this, but um when someone when you view someone's profile, generally their posts start coming up in your feed more just because you've viewed their profile. So if you get a profile viewer and then all of a sudden they see all your other stuff, so however you got them there is irrelevant, but now they're actually seeing the stuff that you want them to see. And rightly or wrongly, I had a pretty like um, you know, not a straight um way of growing my followers, you know, early days ex-recruiter. What I what my general idea was was value, value, value, sharing stories, and then I'd put some polarizing, crazy ass the chicken wings, the half-eaten chicken wings. I still remember that. You know, you'd just post something that would rage bait people basically, yeah, and you would you know post a plate of like half-eaten chicken wings and be like, I've just demolished these wings. I'm feeling good on seek talents. But people be like, You didn't demolish those wings, and that'd be so offended. Yeah, you know, yeah. And so, like just being business, business, business, a little bit crazy, a little bit funny, it really started to like build an audience where people would like follow along for the journey.
SPEAKER_01:So I really resonated with that. Something else that has worked really, really well is polls. So I think what some people do is they put up a poll and it'd be like, what's most important to you this year? Is it salary or career progression or better manager, whatever that looks like? And I think most people will put that post up and all they'll get is people voting on it, and then you've got your voting stats and they reshare that. But what we do, which I think is really smart, is you take that one step further. Everyone that votes on your poll, you then send them a message saying, Thank you for voting on my poll. You said that salary. Is important to you this year. Let's have a conversation. And then they the next minute you've got them on the phone and you're converting them into a lead. Like those those polls are very, very, very powerful. And I think most people miss that you can actually generate that off them.
SPEAKER_05:Dude, the biggest lead generation from those polls. Hey, are you going to clip that up, Sergi? Because that that that is a strong, like, that's a strong little story there. Um, 100%. The polls are interesting because people don't often relate to polls as revealing something that they actually are revealing. Yeah. Um, so I love the polls. That was actually gonna be my next channel, uh, my next question around the gun. What other what other ways do you attract candidates? And um, one of it was around obviously LinkedIn posts, polls. Is there any other like channels that you use or any any strategies that you take to be able to try and find or attract candidates?
SPEAKER_01:We've just become a sponsor of uh like a gold yeah, gold sponsor of women insurance Queensland. Um there's nothing kind of put out there about that yet, but that's just you know, it's a great cause, it's a not-for-profit, so we'll be sponsoring them for the 2026 year. Um, but at all of their industry events that they run, our branding is now gonna be on everything. Um, we get invited to all those events now as well. So it means that we'll be at those events, people will see us, means we can speak with people who are at these events. So that's something that we're gonna trial this year. We haven't done it yet, but yeah.
SPEAKER_05:You know, that's one thing that's missing a lot is the face-to-face interactions with meeting new people in an industry. Um, is that is that a strategy that you just thought of last year? Like what was the driver behind thinking, all right, let's go sponsor an event, turn up, get our brand everywhere, have these conversations? What was what was the thought process behind doing something like that?
SPEAKER_03:I know you mentioned, you know, I was you were quite a transactional recruiter. The the good thing with insurance is it's very much a relationship-driven industry. So it's very much like the people in insurance, the relationship you'll build with your candidates and your clients, if you're meeting with them, you can just see like the difference if you're you know, just on the phone with them. But if you take the time to meet with them, go to the events, go to all the networking um stuff and and the conferences, like it just builds a really strong relationship because they have to go out there, go be in the market, meet with all the different um agencies and insurers and all of that. So they really appreciate when we do the same thing. So it's a very, very relationship. Is it like a small market insurance?
SPEAKER_01:No, it's it's a massive market. Like is it? Yeah. I feel like it's a like a really interesting niche. It's an interesting niche. I think I don't know if I should say give our secret source away on the podcast, but like there's not a lot of recruiters. Um, if you compare it to like accounting and finance as a a niche, like there's not as many people doing insurance, so I think that's beneficial.
SPEAKER_05:To be honest, I reckon I know not even a handful of insurance recruiters. Um, I know one from Fuse, he's a good bloke. I think you guys have met with him before. Yeah, yeah. Uh you guys, and that's pretty much it, hey. That's gonna be some more popping up.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, all of a sudden there's all these other markets, honestly.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, especially from accounting and finance, mate. There's thousands of those recruiters. It's probably a good little uh good little niche to get into. Um, what about outreach? How how is outreach for you guys? Um, what is like the personalization? I know everyone with AI and technology, it's like everyone's trying to personalize outreach. Is there anything in particular that you guys are doing differently? Like, how do you actually approach a candidate you've never spoken to before?
SPEAKER_01:The first thing is don't make it sound like AI. That that instantly loses you credibility because you can read straight through that. Um but I think because we're quite well known just because of the personal branding side of things, when we call someone now and they already know who we are, that instantly takes away that that cold call element to it. If they don't know who we are, it's a personalized intro. Um and just building a little bit of rapport with them to start off with, I guess.
SPEAKER_04:Like there's nothing Do you go in for the kill straight away, or are you No?
SPEAKER_03:I would say like we don't really try to sell on our first approach. It's like I think we're just more so trying to say to them, um, you know, it'd be great to have a conversation, see where you sort of sit in the market. We're not gonna try and obviously sell you anything, it's just like have a chat, you know, see where um you stand. If you've got any questions, we'll probably know and give you a bit of guidance on that. So it's more so again, adding value to them. Um, but we're typically not going in for like the kill shot of I've got XYZ role. Um like obviously we will approach people about roles, but most of the time it's let's have a conversation now because I if I have the perfect role that's going to be a great fit for you in you know 12 months, 24 months. I want to know exactly what that is so I can come to you and tell you this is your dream role, this is why, because we've had that conversation um specifically. So not always going in for the kill shot, it's more just having just a chat, a casual chat.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's understanding of where they're at and what they would be open to and then moving them through the sales cycle that way.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, gotcha. So so your industry specifically, is it driven by clients or driven by candidates primarily? A bit of both, I think.
SPEAKER_01:There's a bit of both. It's one of those weird like 50-50, and it kind of comes in ebbs and flows. Sometimes you'll be really job heavy, there's no candidates, sometimes you'll have all these candidates and no jobs. It's yeah, it's a bit of a balancing task. How do you balance that? Uh chaos. Organized candidates chaos.
SPEAKER_00:Don't go into that. I'm not gonna go down that route today.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, really? That was literally my name's Tell me about our structured days.
SPEAKER_05:Is it do you have any like um SLAs or or like internal requirements around like getting back to every candidate, getting back to them in a time frame, getting back to them with a certain amount of feedback or something? Like what's kind of what what's your approach to like candidate care when it comes to, you know, a bunch of people apply, bunch of people reach out, are you getting back to them? Like, what does that look like?
SPEAKER_01:We always say what the two candidates, when we're interviewing a candidate, we will always that one of the biggest complaints that recruiters get is around they never heard back from my recruiter. So we always set expectation with the candidate.
unknown:What did you say?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I was saying Yeah, I just I was playing that because you he called you on a my name. I don't know. Are you saying because he didn't call back to it?
SPEAKER_01:But one of the biggest complaints that candidates have is never heard back from my recruiter. So saying to them when we interview them, the f this is what you can expect from working with me. If you ever call me, I promise I will always call you back. And something that Matt has like drilled into us over the over the last year. Um and it's just so important. And so setting expectations with them up front around what the timeline on. Do they appreciate that? They love it. Do they get a call back? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you have you've got nothing to tell them? Then they love it even more.
SPEAKER_03:No news news is better than no news at all. I think saying to them, like, if you haven't heard from me, it's only because I haven't got XYZ information from them. Like we we're just very clear, like if we're gonna do something, I think that's the biggest thing to be a good recruiter, is just if you say you're gonna do something, just do it. I think that's it's it's super simple, but it's you can see the difference in the relationship you build over going through the process with with candidates or clients. If you say you're gonna call them back at this time or you know, this is when I'm gonna speak with person, and then you don't call them back a day later. Like we hear that all the time about yeah, I've never heard back from them, so I'm never gonna work with them or you know, that recruiters.
SPEAKER_05:Do you find that um often where you'll you'll try and approach a candidate about a role and they've just been absolutely taken through the ringer with another recruiter and they're like, I'm totally off it, I don't even want to consider it. And you've got to try and like massage them, get them back in. Absolutely. How often does that happen? It probably happens more often than anyone would like it to. What do you do to build like the trust with the candidates after that? Is it just like a trust me bro thing, like this won't happen again, or do you just kind of like ease off a little bit?
SPEAKER_01:It's more of a like a firstly, it's a validation. Appreciate that's the experience you had. I'm really sorry to hear that. Um, let me walk you through what our process looks like and how we can provide support from a different angle for you, and just being really transparent with them around what the process looks like. Wow, that sounded scripted.
SPEAKER_04:You have said that a lot of times.
SPEAKER_05:Whoa okay, yeah, yeah. I think that like I'm just putting myself in the shoes of a candidate. If you said that to me, I'd be like, oh, this guy seems all right. Yeah, give me a crack. Yeah, yeah, cool, cool. Um, and so like what about um timeline of interview processes, getting interviews locked in, that type of thing? How much of the the speed to a candidate submitted, interviewed, offered, how much do you influence either clients or candidates to make sure that that timeline meets the needs of everybody? Do you influence that? Yeah? Yeah. What's what's that like for you guys? Is it is there a bit of pushback from you know I I when I think of insurance, I think of big companies. Um and big companies, as we all know, are slow, they've you know, they'll say that a role's been pulled one minute, then there's internal changes the next, and there's I've got to go check with this guy the next. Like how how do you influence these big companies to like get a wriggle on, basically?
SPEAKER_01:The first thing is that we don't really work with the really big companies. That's step one. So our bread and butter is more the small boutique size um firms. Um, but it's just setting really clear expectations from the the get-go. So I'm gonna submit you to these companies. Um, firstly, you get your their authority to represent them to those companies, and then you say, I anticipate to have an outcome from the client within this many hours based on what the client's told you that's gonna be from your initial job brief. Um, and if you don't have that outcome, it's just giving them another call and letting them know where things are at. They're still making a decision. This is when they're anticipating setting up interviews. Um, this is what you can expect in terms of a next step. So it's just really, really clear communication the whole way through, even if you're not getting what you want.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. D does that come naturally to you or is that kind of forced through the process?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's pretty natural. It's just it's just being upfront with people. I think most people will appreciate if you're really, really honest with them. Um and if it's taken a month and you haven't heard back from someone at the end of the day, you've got to cover your own ass and say, sorry, this isn't a me now, let's withdraw you from that process anyway.
SPEAKER_03:Don't think it's going anywhere. But I I think the biggest thing is just trying not to waste either party's time in the sense of, you know, if we've got multiple people interviewing, letting the candidates know where they sort of rank in the process, especially with the clients as well. Like if we have multiple candidates interviewing or, you know, candidates from an adult or other recruiters, where ours would sort of rank from the interview process. So if it gets to a first interview and the client comes back and says, you know, they're number two or number three or number four, well, we might as well just say to them, well, should we just with withdraw them from the process if you know if they're not even in the front running for this role? Um, and the same thing goes for candidates in the sense of, you know, if they're interviewing for four or five roles, where does my role rank against the other roles you're interviewing for? If it's if it's not one or two, we're usually like, well, do you think it's best we withdraw you? And usually they'll say yes. Um, and that's not an ideal outcome for both right then, but it might be the best outcome because we don't want to lose them at the end of the process when they've just taken something else. So we'll pull candidates and clients out of the process if we're if we're not confident it's going in a positive way. So we just want to don't want to be wasting anyone's time.
SPEAKER_05:That's interesting because uh naturally, as any salesperson or recruiter would be, is they just want as many dogs in the fight as they can. And uh and it sounds like by taking that approach, it's probably doing more damage and harm than it's doing good. Like maybe for the short term, you might feel good that you've got four candidates in the mix, but realistically you've got one or two. So do do you how how do you manage like a mismatch between uh a client and a candidate and their like interest in each other? Like, so if a if a candidate's going forward for the role and they think they're amazing and you know, clients saying no and and then that type of thing, from a uh candidate experience standpoint, are you like up front with like, hey, you've really bombed this for these reasons? Or is it a little bit more of a like a politically correct approach, or what's that like for you guys?
SPEAKER_01:Every candidate, if they are unsuccessful or if it's a wrong match, then the client is not gonna bring them on board. They they deserve, it's their right to understand why they were unsuccessful. So if the client says they rocked up in a t-shirt, they're not professional enough, we're gonna tell them, hey, you rocked up in a t-shirt. Hopefully we've prepped them.
SPEAKER_02:Prep them well enough. I don't know what you're doing, but I'm definitely prepping them. Example. Button up, button up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just being really, really upfront with with um, I guess, the honest feedback so they can improve for next time. And then if there's still someone that you you want to represent, just saying, hey, I understand this wasn't the the most uh wasn't the right role for you, but we're still really, really happy to support you and let's see what else we can help you with. Has it ever backfired? Don't think so.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's backfired for me once. Yeah, so I had the uh human rights association um call and like want to interview me and stuff. Um I didn't do this myself specifically. This is a someone that I employed at the time. I just started Bendito, and um the role was selling security systems to schools, and uh it was a sales role uh in northern Queensland. This guy um went forward for the role, like he was awesome. Um, but then you Google him and he has uh like um allegations of like um um being with minors, basically, like a 16-year-old or a 17-year-old. Basically, he was in the media, um, and then like a 16 or 17-year-old girl on set said that he was like making advances on him and he's done all this stuff and all this craziness. And so clearly, like you Google him, and that's you know a bit of a red flag. Anyway, um the consultant I had at the time calls him and goes, mate, oh you know, it's just a school, you know, you've got an issue with kids and underage people, and this guy blew up. And um, and this is at the time where there was like my the recruiter that was working for me didn't understand the difference between uh like charged and convicted. And so this guy was charged with all of these things, and then it turns out that the mum overheard her talking to her friend saying it was all fake and he never actually did anything. The mums then told the police, police have dropped all charges, but all the news articles are still out there and it's like it's killing him. And and so he was he called up the Human Rights Association, said that they've you know rejected me for a role from a uh a past offense that never happened, blah blah blah, we had to do this formal apology, etc. So that was I don't know this is a bit of a like a crazy story, and hopefully this never happened.
SPEAKER_03:Hopefully this is an outlier.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, this is definitely an outlier. Um, but you know, if there's any like you know issues around you know children and stuff like that, maybe just stay away from that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, usually it's like they've underdressed, or you know, they didn't know how to answer our quest or something.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, this guy's getting charged for like you know, interactions with minors or something. Yeah, it was it was a crazy time. So ever since that, I mean, hopefully most recruiters have the intuition, no, not to like open up a you know can of worms. Yeah, can of worms around that. But um, what about offers? So we've talked about attracting candidates, posting, building a reputation, you you calling them, they kind of know who you are, adding value, this type of thing, setting their expectations to the interview process. But when it comes to like offers, what are the strategies that you guys put forward? And I know there's definitely some before giving someone an offer, then managing the offer, and then really just making sure that it's a hundred percent accepted and it's not like wishy-washy. I'm gonna start with Jet.
SPEAKER_03:I think what I touched on before around like withdrawing them, you know, if there's any unease throughout the process, or if you know, we're sort of feeling like it's not going in a positive direction, we're gonna be constantly asking them, you know, should we withdraw you from the process? Where does it rank? Stuff like that. So hopefully by the time we usually get to the office.
SPEAKER_05:Is that a bluff? Are you saying that to just like bluff it out? And if they go, no, no, I get me in, you're like, we need to know. We need to know.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. And you know, it it always stings a little bit when they say, Yeah, just withdraw me. Because obviously we we've gone through a process, but I I'd say 99% of the time it's for the right reason why we're withdrawing them. Um, so usually, like at this point, um, and we've definitely changed our strategy, and we we've worked quite closely with Matt around this and the offer process. Um, but we typically will not lose a candidate in the offer stage because we've gone through all these motions of finding exactly how they feel about everything, withdrawing them if they're not the right candidate, and then when we get to the offer stage, usually it's mostly aligned. Um, there might be something, and you know, we're always going through the pre-close process, both with the candidate and the client to make sure it's all aligned because you know there's always going to be things, whether it's like a local offer or you know, they're gonna match the hybrid working or so like what is that?
SPEAKER_05:Like, how do you make sure that something's rock solid? Is it just small little parts of the process that you implement that by the end it should be pretty pretty watertight? Or is there, I don't know, a pre-qualifying question that generally flushes out any issues that haven't been resolved? Like what do you say to them specifically that gives you the confidence to know, oh, this guy's rock solid?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so we we'll talk like hypotheticals. Like if I was to get you this offer, this role with the start date of this, with whatever benefits that they want, um maybe car allowance or car whatever, if I can get you that, would you be happy for me to accept this role on your behalf? Is the main question that we'll ask once we get to the office stage, or if we know you know we're getting close and it's all progressing quite well, um, you know, having those conversations with the client after references and whatnot, we'll we'll talk the hypotheticals of if I get you that, would you be happy for me to accept the role on your behalf?
SPEAKER_05:That's an interesting framing because like most recruiters would say, if I do this, is will you accept? And you're saying, Can I accept on your lost a few deals, so we we reworked it, yeah. Okay, why? Why did you why what changed? Like that's an interesting approach. It's a bit different, seems pretty reasonable. Um like from a psychological standpoint, how did you think of reframing it to I'll just accept on your behalf? No, Matt Cossons have 100% accepted.
SPEAKER_01:So what we started to understand was the whole yes or no answer. You you can't control that part of the closing process. So you need to maintain control the whole way through the close. So what do you do? Client tells you this is what it's going to look like. So to the candidate, um, it's giving them a call and saying, This is what I think it's going to look like. It could be 100k plus super starting on this date in this role. If all of those things align and um I get that offer for you, can I accept it on your behalf? That way you're controlling the process. And if they say to you no, the salary's off or the title's off or both, which I had at one instance, which is a nightmare.
SPEAKER_05:Salary and title. Yeah. Are we going for the same role here?
SPEAKER_01:And then um going back and just workshopping what that would look like. So if you have to go back to the client, you can try and change the salary if you need to, or the title, or both. Um, and then it's going back to the candidate and just workshopping with them what you've done and trying to get the outcome. At the end of the day, the client's going to pay you for the outcome. So you need to make sure that you can deliver on that when it gets to that stage.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's really interesting. It's almost like it completely stops someone from going, I'll have a think about it. Cheers. And then you're losing all leverage and power if you're saying I'll accept on your behalf. What if, with a click of a finger, you could start your own recruitment agency? Well, now you can. With XRecruiter, launching your own agency has never been easier. In less than three weeks, you could be taking home 85% more of your billings with everything handled for you. You recruit, we take care of the rest. Click the link in the description to see if you are ready to take that next step. How do you how do you balance doing the right thing by your client, getting someone over the line and influencing the process, but then also uh trying to balance the candidate's desires, wants, and needs? Because there's obviously you know, the client wants to pay as little as possible, candidate wants to get paid as much as possible, and there's probably somewhere in the in between that everyone's kind of happy with. Um how do you kind of balance the difference between what the candidate wants and what the client wants? Is it just to straight up trying to meet in the middle negotiation, or is there any strategies that you've got that kind of help anchor people either higher or lower?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's having that conversation initially at that stage. So if I'm catching up with the client in 15 minutes to to see what the outcome of this is, if I get you this 100K with this start date with this title, can I accept on your behalf? It's the yeah buts. And so you're like, okay, talk me through on what basis would you move forward now? And if they say I was looking for 110, okay, great, appreciate that you're looking for 110. Let me go back to the client and see if there's any wiggle room with the salary, and then it's going back and having that conversation. And based on what they said, you can then go back to the candidate and you just you have the same conversation again. I've caught up with the client. This is what I'm anticipating it will be. Um, if they've gone up to 105, it's looking like it might be a 105, plus, etc. etc. Can I accept on your behalf? And it's just continuing going back and forth until you get to whatever that final number is on both sides.
SPEAKER_03:And then when we're at the pointing process, if they say no, I don't want 105, and then you pretty much say to them, Look, if that's all I can get, if I can only get an offer that's 105, do you want me to withdraw you from the process? You take it off them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That is the secret, honestly.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, um, and usually we're hoping them to not say no, um, but there will be ones that that'll say no. So you talk the hypotheticals um even after you've had those conversations with the client, and then you know, if you tell them I'm feeling like they're gonna be firm on this number, if it is just that number, would you be happy for me to accept on your behalf, or would you want me to withdraw you from the process?
SPEAKER_05:I think there's a lot of magic in what you guys are saying, right? And I you might not realize, you might not realize, yeah, so most people have two different ways of making decisions. One's through uh like positivity and one's through negativity. And so by reframing both, would you can I accept on your behalf or can I withdraw you from the process if it's not this, you kind of hit both. Personality traits of like how people make decisions. So if you were to say to someone, oh mate, it's 100k, I think it's going to be 100k plus super plus car, would you accept? Um, can I accept on your behalf? And they're like, uh, I don't know, but okay, well, um, if it's 99k, if you're not going to accept 100, you know, you you're a maybe. So if it was 100k, I'll just reject it for you. Um, and they go, Well, no, no, no, no, no, don't reject. Like, oh, okay. So there is some merit in this 100k that you are considering. Oh, maybe can I get a little bit more? You know, can I get 110? You know, this type of thing. I think um, I think that's actually super powerful is um going through the the positives and the negatives of the decision-making process because um it's it's not too crafty in in a in a in a like in a manipulation sense, but it really helps get to how people frame things in their own mind. And if you say positive or negative and you're given both options, I think usually you'll get probably a pretty clear answer. Have you found that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, definitely. It's changed it changed, changed the way we did business last year. So like changed everything. Yeah. Awesome. I love that.
SPEAKER_05:All right, now we're gonna move on into the one thing. If recruiters could take away only one key lesson in this episode, what should it be? And I'm gonna ask the question of both of you because you both might have different answers. I'll go first. Oh he always does, always does this.
SPEAKER_01:Sorry, mate, he's he's quick on the buzzer. Have a personal brand that speaks to a targeted audience. If you are recruiting for the insurance industry, make sure your audience is insurance people and get rid of all the recruiters that you have connections with on LinkedIn because that's messing with your algorithm. What do you mean? So if you've got lots and lots of recruiters on your as your connections on LinkedIn, the more you put out content, the more recruiters view your post, the more recruiters are going to see your post. But if that's not your target audience, then your insurance people are missing out on seeing your content. So it's all about having a targeted audience.
SPEAKER_05:Love that. Okay, I like that. That's a good one. All right, Jet. Hopefully Nathan hasn't stolen that from me.
SPEAKER_03:No, mine's kind of a compound to that answer in the sense of even if you don't see the immediate effects from it straight away, if you're not getting a hundred likes and you only get a couple, it is having an effect. It's compounding, and then you'll start to notice it. And we're at the point now where all that compounding is is really adding up, and we're getting lots of inbound um inquiries from both candidates and and clients. So it's it's definitely a compounding effect. It's like going to the gym. Yeah, it's the same thing. And most people, you know, in our industry don't feel I mean, most industries, they wouldn't feel comfortable liking a recruiter stuff. Usually on the candidate side, they they wouldn't feel as comfortable because if you know if their employer sees that they're liking all this stuff, it's it's not a good look. So, you know, you may only get a couple likes or or less than 10 likes. But the amount of people that are actually seeing it and actually engaging with it and actually really liking it, even though they're not literally engaging on it or commenting or sharing it, it makes a difference. But you won't notice the effects straight away. Or you might, you might as well blow up, but usually it's a compounding thing. So yeah, personal branding, but it's a it's a slow grind. Love that.
SPEAKER_05:Awesome. That's some really good key takeaways. Now, before we leave, we've got a game, we've got a trivia game, and typically it's called Are You Smarter Than Ed. Instead, it's Are You Smarter Than Each Other? It's gonna be you two versing each other, so it's gonna be Jet versus Nathan. I'm gonna fire off some trivia questions. It's gonna be best out of ten. Winner takes all while the loser faces a mystery challenge. Oh come ahead. LinkedIn was launched in what year? A 1999. B 2003, C 2008, D. 2012.
SPEAKER_01:Major.
SPEAKER_05:Correct! Can you just make sure you keep in school? Because my memory's not that great. The term war for talent was popularized by A. Harvard Business Review. B McKinsey. C LinkedIn. D.
SPEAKER_03:Shurem. Jet? What was that last one? I'm gonna go A.
SPEAKER_06:I don't even know.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, Jet, that's bubble. That's incorrect. I'll just go B.
SPEAKER_04:B is correct!
SPEAKER_01:Oh my. What was B? It wasn't the last one.
SPEAKER_05:Sh Shurum. What is employer reputation influenced by most? A. Office furniture. B. Candidate reviews. C job titles. D. Recruiter salaries.
SPEAKER_03:Jet. B. J. Let's go. You didn't think it was office furniture.
SPEAKER_05:Which body regulates general insurers in Australia? A. ASIC. Jet A.
SPEAKER_01:Incorrect. Nathan Afgha. Incorrect.
SPEAKER_05:Should we circle back around? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go try again. Let's start again. Abra. APRA. You didn't buzz.
SPEAKER_01:B. Sure.
SPEAKER_05:B, you're cheating. Alright. Alright, let's do all. Let's go, boys. CTP insurance stands for Nathan. I was gonna fall through that party.
SPEAKER_04:Let's go!
SPEAKER_02:You didn't know which one it was.
SPEAKER_05:Which of the following is a major Australian insurer? A. Nab. B. QBE. C Macquarie Group. Nathan. QBE. 4-2. Jetman. It's looking good. Jetman, are you live over there? An actuary's main role is to A. Sell insurance. B. Approve claims. C conduct audits. Jet C.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no.
SPEAKER_05:What's D? D. Model financial risk. Nathan. D. Damn. Too quick on the buzzer, mate. Congratulations, Nathan. You are smarter than Jet, officially. We hope so. Thumbnail and put that on the wall. That was an awesome catch-up, boys, talking about impact talent, where you've come from, where you are today. It's super inspiring. And it's super interesting, especially learning insurance and your process with candidates. And I know at the start you said, I don't think we're doing anything special, but there was a fair few special moments in there that hopefully people are going to listen to and reflect on and be able to implement too, just as long as they stay out of insurance. Correct. No, there's plenty of people out there to work. So thanks for joining us on Confessions.