Confessions of a Recruiter
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Confessions of a Recruiter
Mastering Candidate Experience: Blue Collar Recruitment | COAR S2-E6
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We sit down with Theo Elliott from Rover Recruitment to unpack the real first-year story behind a fast-growing labour hire desk in Brisbane and the Gold Coast, including the ugly parts recruiters don’t post about: rejection, cashflow stress, and learning suburbs on the fly while still trying to win work.
We get practical about what moved the needle early. Theo shares why he doubled down on manufacturing, warehousing and logistics recruitment, how he approached market mapping, and what it took to do 1,000 business development calls in two weeks. We also dig into the quality versus quantity debate, why activity creates better outcomes over time, and how speed-to-market affects candidate attraction in blue-collar hiring where applicants disappear fast.
Then we go deeper into operations and risk. Theo breaks down how he runs a lean 360 model, when he hired support, and how remote recruitment professionals help with sourcing, screening and contractor flow while he stays focused on client acquisition and account management. We also talk bad debt and liquidation risk, the warning signs he wishes he acted on earlier, and the lesson he wants every recruiter to take away: get on site, understand the culture, and manage expectations with clients before you promise anything.
If you’re building a recruitment agency, scaling a labour hire desk, or trying to improve candidate attraction and temp-to-perm outcomes, this one will sharpen your thinking.
· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
Theo’s Move And Career Backstory
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to another episode of Confessions of a Recruiter. We are joined by Theo Elliott and he runs Rover Recruitment.
SPEAKER_01First two weeks, I think I made a thousand phone calls. My target was 500 calls a week. I guess I set a time limit on myself. If I can't get this right within six months, I've got to pull up in. We had 140k of bad debt come through. Super challenging for a brand new business. Didn't know the suburbs, didn't know the clients well enough. And I just thought, just have a crack and dive in and proof of concept was done in like 14 days. By three months, it was pretty clear that it was working.
SPEAKER_00430k GP in a one-man ban. In a blue-collar labour hire business in the first 12 months. Fucking awesome. So this season, it's all about candidate attraction in blue collar. What perfect person to speak to than yourself around that? What I want to do for anyone that's listening is give some context on who you were before starting Rover, the decision-making process was to start Rover, how your first 12 months came about, and give some people some like really meaty stuff around the realities of running a recruitment agency because I think online everyone's just saying how great they are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it can look good, it can look perfect.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but like the reality is far from the truth. Um, so I guess firstly, just walk us through you you said just before you came here two years ago, just walk us through that journey of like getting to Australia. What was your history like from a recruitment perspective? And like how how did you come to like today?
SPEAKER_01Pretty much two years ago, moved to Gold Coast from Auckland, made a typical New Zealander move and shifted to sunny Gold Coast. Um then started with a business in Brisbane working in a national role for a company called 360 Personnel. Um so traveled a lot, moved across every state. We're in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, um, Tasmania, Perth, Adelaide. So gave me a real full picture of Australia. Probably didn't give me a real close sort of view of Brisbane or Queensland, where I've ultimately ended up starting a business. Um but was there 10 months and I guess, you know, I I've always wanted to start, I'd always wanted to start my own business, but never really thought of when it would be. Um prior to coming to New Zealand was seven and a half years with one recruitment company. Sort of navigating through, starting as a resource recruiter into account manager. Um they were a very sort of flat structured business. Everyone was a 360 recruiter. So basically, rather than sort of navigating through different roles, you sort of just progressed your skill set from recruiter to account manager to BDM to regional manager, et cetera. Um and so I guess just I actually called um you guys um early on just to introduce myself and have a bit of a chat because I was new to Aussie, wanted to build a bit of a network, and thought I'd just give you guys a call and have a bit of a yarn. No intention of actually starting a recruitment company from the conversation, but sort of had a chat, and I think three, four months later ended up meeting you guys in Melbourne and and sort of was like, Yeah, let's go. I think you asked, you said when are you ready to go? And I was like, I reckon now or three months' time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I still remember that meeting actually when you walked through the door and you're like, Yeah, I'm from Gold Coast. I'm like, what are you doing here in Melbourne? You're like, oh, I'm just down here for work.
SPEAKER_01I think I was very unprepared. Like, look, it's it's ironic actually, because I've had the chance to talk to a few new ex-recruiter partners who are coming on in the next three months or have already or sort of are going through onboarding, you know, whether it's a reference or just sort of a uh, I guess a bit of a chat to give some advice. Um and the sort of ask, you know, what would you do differently and sort of how did you how'd your first year go? And I think like I realize now probably how unprepared I was going into it. Um especially, you know, of the 10 months I'd been here in Aussie, I'd probably spent two months in Brisbane and not on the tools per se. I was more people management, like I was in a national role, so I was dealing more with I guess, you know, team structure and performance reviews and managing a team, growing a team as opposed to recruiting and business development. And so, you know, didn't market map well enough, didn't know the suburbs, didn't know the clients well enough, I think. And so looking back, you know, there's a lot of learnings there around preparation. And I I mean I have a bit of a habit of probably chucking myself in the deep end. So, you know, that's not too surprising.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that was actually gonna be one of my questions. So if if I can like rewind a little bit, you you're 10 months in Australia, you're you're not on the tools, you're managing a team, um, but you have a random phone call to ex-recruiter, get a bit of a sense for it. Like, did you always think that you were gonna start an agency, you just didn't know when, where, or how? Or like, like, you're obviously in a great role, a national role. So, how did you kind of square up going from oh, I've got a good salary, I've got a good life, I haven't been here very long, I don't know the market very well, to fuck it, I'm just gonna have a crack and have a complete sea change and just get back on the tools, lose my salary in a place that I'm unfamiliar with.
Why Start Rover Without Preparation
SPEAKER_01That sounds like a smart decision. Yeah, how did you square that up to go, this is a good idea? It was mainly timing. Like I worked for this one business in New Zealand for seven and a half years, like I was extremely loyal to them. Uh, I could have never seen myself going away from that business and starting a competing company, just wouldn't have happened. And so them moving to Australia, you know, there's more opportunity. Uh, I sort of, it was a pivoting moment really with my past, you know, the previous company, where I was like, am I gonna stay with them and basically, you know, aim to be a director and stay with this business for the next 10, 15 years, or am I gonna go start with another company and grow with them? And I just thought, you know, do I go and grow a desk or grow a business for someone else here in Brisbane, or do I just actually have a crack and do it myself? And like I had the opportunity to start up a branch or sort of be in the early stages of branch of uh another business. And that was where I just thought, you know, even in four years' time, if I want to go start my business then, I've spent four years building someone else's. And so I thought, yeah, I've got the tools, I've worked in every role within recruitment. You know, there's always opportunity to grow and be better. And so now looking back, I'm like, I'm I was I'm nowhere near as as good then as I am now, and I still have so much more to learn. So I think that was probably the naivety that just was like, you know, let's give it a go.
SPEAKER_00A lot of the consideration for most people financial, um, because you need to put food on the table, you yourself, you've got young kids, like you've got to support your family, all this type of thing. So that that move to potentially lose a salary is is one of the most hardest challenges for most people to go from recruiter to business owner. Um what were your considerations around that? Like, did you like want to have a certain amount of savings? Did you you know give yourself a certain amount of runway? Like talk to me through like the financial considerations from going from a team leader trying to build a national business to kind of losing that salary and then Yeah, like I'll be fully transparent.
The Six-Month Deadline And Runway
SPEAKER_01Like I had some support, um, strong family support and backing in the sense of um yeah, I guess they trusted that I knew the industry and and had the capability to deliver. I guess I set a time limit on myself of sort of six months where I was like, if I can't get this right within six months, I gotta pull the pin. Because I think, you know, I knew within myself that I couldn't get it to a point where it was profitable and and you know, covering salary and covering all cost and actually working by that point, then it wasn't the right thing for me to do. Um and looking back, I think that was the right decision. Like by three months, you know, it was pretty clear that it was working and you know, proof of concept was done in like 14 days. I had a person on the ground, so I was cheering. And so I yeah, I think that was realistic. I think you've got to have a an a realistic timeline in place where you're like, look, if I don't hit this by then, this isn't the thing for me, you know?
SPEAKER_00So blue collar, labor hire, is notoriously challenging. Lots of moving parts, risky, high volume, fast-paced, like it has a lot of elements to it that are quite um challenging. So um how did you like how did you go from not really knowing Brisbane Gold Coast Queensland to then going, I'm gonna start a blue-collar labour hire business in Brisbane Gold Coast when I don't know the suburbs, I don't know the clients, I don't know the candidates. And I'm just putting myself in the shoes of like a blue-collar recruiter out there that is sitting in Brisbane, they've got a good desk, and they're like, I don't even know if I could like start a blue-collar agency myself right now when you've got people like you who have done it with no database, no clients, haven't been on the tools for a while in a location you've never been in. Like, walk me through what the strategy was for your first three months starting your blue-collar labor high business.
First Market Map And Niche Focus
SPEAKER_01I had the confidence that I've always been focused on manufacturing logistics, you know, food production. And so that's what I did for seven and a half years, uh, moving into the role in Australia. They were doing sort of more industries, covering more industries. So I learned a bit about construction and civil and and so on. Um, but still fundamentally they were doing warehousing, manufacturing, logistics. And so I was confident I knew the industries, you know, I needed to learn the cultural changes and the demographic within each suburb. And I guess you look at north, south, east, west Brisbane, and then you look at Gold Coast, what the tiring trends are, and and I guess the challenges in different areas. You look at, you know, East Brisbane is is drastically different to South Brisbane because of the you know, the I guess more industrial side of the space, and so it's harder to find people there. And so I knew I I knew I was confident within the manufacturing and logistics space, it was just learning the environment, and there was no other way to do it than just get on the tools and dive in. And so I think, you know, looking back, it would have been an advantage if I'd been doing it in that same space, but also it was a clean slate, and so I had no, you know, no baggage of non-competes and no sort of you know enemies per se. You know, it was just have a crack and dive in and do the work.
SPEAKER_00Just to clarify, so you got a map of Brisbane, you chopped it up north, east, south, west. What did you do next?
SPEAKER_01I had a specific plan when I started. Now looking back and and it was probably a good plan. I think it was right. I probably got distracted pretty early. And you know, the the plan was start in Gold Coast and systematically move my way down all the way to North Brisbane, essentially, and cover off manufacturing and logistics, every single client, target every single business from Gold Coast down or up. Always get the I'm still. I'm still mixing that up. I guess market mapping's super important, and over the last year and a half I've I've managed to, you know, I guess get there in the sense of cover it all, I think. Um, but I got a bit distracted early on, which is fair enough, where you know you get a win, you get an opportunity, you see a a lead and wake hole and you call them and you get a meeting and you go out there and and and get a win and so you you chase that as well. So I think it was easy to sort of do you know get the whole shiny object scenario where you see a bit of an opportunity and you go after it. And I'm probably made a few mistakes early on, you know, going after roles that weren't my niche just because it was sexy and you know there was money in it and and it was probably, you know, I guess necessary at the time. Um, but I I also think I I stayed pretty hard on my niche, and I also think that's really important because you know, I knew the space, I'd done it a long time. I think you know, if you back yourself heavily enough, if you stay in it and you know the space, then you shouldn't sort of divert into something else just because it presents itself. And I also think clients respect it. Like if you turn it down and go, look, it's actually not my space. You know, within the extracruiter community, we you know, we referred some roles really early on to different partners, which you know, you're referring a$17,000 perm role when you're three months into business seems pretty stupid. But you know, but also I think it was the it was the right move and and and I think ultimately, you know, it it proves that you know you're staying in your lane and you're good within your space, you know, rather than trying to do everything. So that's interesting. So where which location did you start with?
SPEAKER_00Did you start with Gold Coast? Started Gold Coast, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That was the the the starting block, like Molandiner.
1,000 Calls And Volume Mindset
SPEAKER_00And were you just like calling them on the phone, dropping in? Like how did you just sit at the desk, jumping in the car, going to see some? Like, what's what was day one?
SPEAKER_01The timing wasn't great again with me. I have a habit of it. Um like I had two weeks and then I went to America for three weeks and then I came back. Um but that two first two weeks, I think I made a thousand phone calls. Like I just I had a list, so like I'd I I'd done some market mapping, I wasn't starting from scratch. Um, but I think I had a you know a list and and call a thousand people. My target was 500 calls a week. How many calls a day were you doing? The target was a hundred a day and pretty much hit that bang on the head, a thousand in the first two weeks. How many connects would you get? Oh, the connects probably weren't too sexy, but um probably 200 connects in the first week. Yeah, like it was it was pretty good. I mean, different to actually going through the hiring manager, but you know, it was you know, easily 200 speaking to someone within the business because I'd either target direct hiring manager, but more so it was actually just reception. Hey, Theo here from rover recruitment, just wanted to see who the best person to to chat to was and and go from there. Uh which felt a bit weird because you know, Theo here from Rover Recruitment never worked for the business before. Um, so that was confronting. And it was a super confronting first two weeks because I hadn't been on the tools for BD in actually probably five years. Wow. You know, and I'd never done the volume of B D because the first company I was I was with, we had a thousand plus candidates, and so majority of it was, I guess you'd say, account management with you know growth within those accounts and business development would be more targeted, not you know, 500 calls in a week. That was unheard of.
SPEAKER_00How did you do that? Like I I I feel like if I was in the recruiter shoes right now, going f look at staring down the barrel of having to do 500 dials for a week, there'd be a lot of recruiters that would just wouldn't do it.
SPEAKER_01It's actually funny. I had I had a conversation with someone in the industry yesterday about metrics that matter and outcomes that matter and stuff. And and that obviously comes from from Matt and you know, learnt a huge amount over the last year and a half around I guess what data you should track. Yeah. Um and he was talking about the same thing, and we were talking about, I guess, calls and and it being, you know, one of the key metrics that you should track because it ties into your outcomes, you know, for business development and for candidate, you know, capturing as well. Um and I think, you know, the reality is you just my my mentality was the more no's I get, the closer I get to a yes. Because eventually you're gonna get through to someone at the right time, at the right scenario, and you're gonna be the right business for them. Um because sometimes you just you'll call the right business, they'll need people, they'll need your services, but it'll be the wrong time. You know, the guy will be on lunch break, or um, you know, they'll be unavailable or something.
SPEAKER_00I feel, and I I get flack for my mindset on this all the time. I feel like if you've got enough volume, you can trip over a deal. It doesn't matter how shit you are, yeah, if your volume is sky high, you will at least trip over a couple of deals and be able to pay the bills. Yeah. Um I was giving a um uh uh an example to um someone at Execrutor recently, and we were talking about the difference between quality and quantity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you know, do you want quantity or do you want quality? Like what's the what's the go? And I have you ever heard of the um the story around um the university where there was a professor and there was a hundred students and they split the students in two, and there was 50 students on one side, 50 students on the other side. Yeah, and um on the left side of the 50 students, they had to make as many clay pots as they f physically possibly could all day. Um and they had to go for volume, as many clay pots as they could make. And then on the other side, this group of students they had to make the best quality clay pot they could possibly make. Yeah, and so they had all day to make the best quality clay pot. This side had the best that all day to make as many pots as possible, and the outcome was the group that was tasked to do as many as possible made higher quality pots than the than the group that was tasked to make a high quality pot. Because they had vol exactly, they had volume, they made like 145 clay pots, and by the end of it, they were just absolutely awesome pots. And then the the people focusing on quality made like six pots, and they were all dog shit.
SPEAKER_01I think it's it's funny, like I think the quality versus quantity pieces, like I mean, it's the typical objection you also get from your team when you ask, hey, can you make a hundred calls or can you do this? It's sort of, oh well, I'd rather make 10 really good phone calls than a hundred poor calls. And like I agree, I mean, you know, from you know, labor high can often seem like a very volume-based transactional industry. Uh, but I think you know, two things can be the same. You know, you don't have to have a high volume of calls and those calls be poor quality. You know, ultimately a lot of the time you're not getting through to people. Uh, it's about you know timing. And so, you know, but it's it's typical. That's the typical objection you get. Oh, well, actually, I don't want to do that because I think my quality will drop. But you know, the reality is the more volume and activity you do in recruitment, the better the results you will get. You know, quality I think comes further down the line as well. You know, it's not just you know, I want to do less calls because I'll make better calls.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think it is it is like this weird perception that if you go for volume, you can't go for quality. And I've always been under the impression that if you're making if you're making 20 calls, the max quality conversations you can have is 20. Yeah. If you're making 100 calls, you could do more than 20 quality conversations. Yeah. So it's about the overall volume um ties into the quality at the same time.
SPEAKER_01No, I agree. Well, I mean, like I I was it was funny, I was just talking to someone about it around like he was actually challenging, I think, the stigma around KPIs and from a different perspective where he was sort of getting a huge amount of KPIs pushed on him, you know, a dozen different KPIs and metrics. And I was sort of challenging him around like simplify it. You know, the reality is you want one outcome, probably one key outcome, which is placements for recruiters, and and one key outcome for you know BDMs, which is jobs on, and then you flow it down. Um, but the reality is most of it comes back to to activities and calls or submissions and and so on, not 12 different metrics that you're trying to track, you know? And then actually giving the team those metrics to use as a tool rather than like a policing mechanism, you know? Then you always get better buy-in, I think, as well.
Running 360 And First Hire Pressure
SPEAKER_00So I want to talk about um another really interesting um part that I'm I'm interested in. Um, and that is how you juggle doing BD and then filling jobs. Because a one-person operation starting their blue-collar labor hire business, generally what we find in the market is someone will always partner up with a like a delivery person. They won't just jump in and go, I'll do the full 360 blue-collar labor hire as a one-man band. Like it just doesn't happen. Obviously, with X Recruiter, it's possible, but um but walk me through your mindset around how if you get a job on, how you also had the time to be able to context switch into being a delivery person and then trying to fill the jobs as well. Like, how did you manage that?
SPEAKER_01I'll answer in a couple of different ways. Like, I I've always enjoyed the 360 model. Like I think, you know, having the ability to work directly with candidates, directly with clients as well, gives you a stronger ability to deliver, you know, a quality service because you understand the client's needs better, you understand the market better. And so that's why I, you know, I'm I'm a strong believer of a 360 um structured business. I think you know there's there's positives to it and there's there's challenges in it as well. But I think what I found really challenging really early on was getting a role on in an in a new suburb or new area, and you didn't have the volume or I guess the reach that I did with a previous business. You know, in the first company I was working with, we were in one designated area. And so all the candidates you attracted, you could tend to sort of pitch multiple opportunities to them. Or if they didn't suit one role, you could push them forward towards another client. But when you're starting brand new and you have one job in Waco, you know, you're you're basically diving into that market, advertising, all the candidates you're screening can only go towards that that one business. And so, I mean, you know, you get an advantage with size. And so that was one thing I found really challenging. Trying to do business development across all these different areas and regions. Um while also trying to place people at the same time, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but what was like the day-to-day like? Did you do like, I don't know, in the first half of the day BD, second half of the day filling jobs? Like how did you do that?
SPEAKER_01The I mean the first the first month or two was pretty different because it was business development, client acquisition, like that was the absolute focus. And then I think within a month I had 14 people out working across different businesses. Most of them were were sort of focused within the Gold Coast area. So it made it a little bit easier. But then I found out pretty early that it in order to grow, I did need someone else on board. So within two months, I hired someone. Uh, because it just I realized like if I wanted to grow at the pace I had wanted to when I'd started, it just wasn't possible to do, you know, 500 BD calls while also trying to fill, you know, five, 10, 15 roles at the same time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So there's a few things that I wanted to dive into there. The first thing is um how how did you justify putting someone on in month two? Was it because you started getting a bit of money in the door and um you were able to then pay them? And um, like what what was that decision-making process like for you to go, oh, I'm seven weeks in now. Um, it's time for me to hire someone.
SPEAKER_01Again, probably some naivety. But I I guess like a just a I was I was really driven to grow and I re I backed myself heavily that I would get the work on. And you know, I guess your mindset probably shifts at times through business. You know, when you're starting out, you're probably pretty risk, risk averse and or sort of risk tolerant when you're starting out. And so I think I was just really confident that I would make it work. And I I I also saw some wins pretty early on from sure a lot of work, but also, you know, if I could do 500 calls in week one and get, you know, five discovery meetings, my quality would improve and you know, uh, my ability to get better meetings would improve, and and then you get one client on that leads to another, and you to refer and so on. So I think I saw some wins early on, saw the possibility and and opportunity, and I thought, you know, if I keep doing this, it'll keep growing, you know. So back myself. But again, probably pretty naive looking back at it, like hiring someone seven weeks in, eight weeks out.
SPEAKER_00But it puts the pressure on, you know? It does. One of the one of the beautiful things about hiring someone is that you are now no longer just accountable to yourself, you're accountable to somebody else. And if you don't have the pipeline coming in to support them being busy enough to fill the jobs, one, you are burning cash like no tomorrow. But two, if you can't get enough jobs coming in that they can't be busy enough and to justify their job, then you're actually just like putting their career on the line and putting their quality of life at risk. So it's it gives you like this double whammy of pressure to make sure that you show up every day, you're getting the jobs in, that kind of stuff. But the the challenge that we see heaps of recruiters is um when you get a new person on, you can't do as much BD because you've got to train them up. Your costs go up, your revenue drops a little bit because you're focused on the person instead of like revenue generating activities. And then there's this weird inflection point where it's like I'm going backwards. What am I doing this for? This is actually brain damage.
SPEAKER_01Did you ever feel like that? I probably took my foot off the gas a little bit when I hired someone, or or I adjusted, you know, where I should focus, where actually what I was doing to start with was the right thing. Um and yeah, sure, I should have diverted a little bit to training and development and so on, but I probably should have stayed stuck to my guns a little more and done you know pretty much exactly what I was doing for the first two months.
SPEAKER_00Do you regret hiring someone or do you still think it was like in hindsight, now that you're all knowing and wise? All knowing and wise, yeah, sure. Would you have still hired someone knowing what you know now, or would you have just waited and and got a few more runs on the board?
SPEAKER_01Looking back, I probably would have waited a month or two, but I still would have dived in. Yeah. You know, like even if I say now sensibly, you know, maybe I would have waited six months or nine months or so on, I'd be lying. I I think, you know, I would probably have only waited a month or two so that I was a little bit more prepped and there was a little bit more going on. But also I think you don't hire for the current situation, you're wanting to hire for the next 12 months, next 18 months, and so on. You know, so I backed that within the next 12 months there'd be the work there. And so I think if you're ever hiring because of what's currently going on within the business, it's the wrong decision anyway. And so, you know, that's what I mean. It would have been a month or or two months later, I would have gone, I need someone. Yeah. Uh because it's just it's it's extremely hard also to service clients that you're bringing on uh at the same pace. You know, if you're trying to bring on 20 clients a month and you're one person, and then you're also trying to do business development, you've just got a leaky bucket. You know, you're not servicing the clients, you're bringing on well enough, you'll then lose business. You know, Queensland's smaller than it probably looks. And so at a certain point, if you're in business long enough, it'll come back around and you'll want to work with those businesses again or that person again, and your first impression's been horrible, you won't win the business again. And so, you know, that's where I think the growth approach is important and everyone has it, but also I think, you know, maintaining a realistic level of growth that you can keep clients happy is probably more important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, what about what I'm always fascinated with on someone's first hire is like why did someone want to come and work for you being a one-man band? Yeah, I don't know. Like Ax business. Like, I obviously I say that as respectfully as possible. No, no, I agree. Yeah, it's um it's always a a bit of an insecurity moment for new business owners when it's just you, you're trying to find your first hire, and you're convincing someone like, hey, you want to come work with me?
SPEAKER_01I didn't find it that hard to be fair, because I was I was super jacked up in the in the early few months. And my year and a half, it's been a rocky road, I think. Like my mentality shifted in different ways over the last year and a half, like had a lot of personal challenges in the early days. Um and so I think like, you know, I know in the first three months I was just super jacked up. And so I think bringing someone into that energy was easy, you know, because I I backed that we were gonna do something great and build something great and and still do. I think, you know, as long as you back yourself and you're passionate, like people see the passion with you know, with a with a hire, and like I think it's pretty easy to tell um on both sides, like from the candidate if they're passionate about getting involved, and from a leader if they're passionate about the business, you know, you'll attract good people.
Remote Support Model And Candidate Flow
SPEAKER_00100%. Passion is generally what gets people over the line. Yeah. Um when they can feel your energy, they go, you know what, I'm gonna have a crack at this too. Um and you've done that so well. So like where are you at today? So you're are you 14 months, 15 months? Like, what's how long have you been in business for?
SPEAKER_01About 16 months.
SPEAKER_0016 months. Yeah, I probably should know that. And so what do your metrics look like today? So um, is it just yourself? Do you have like an outsource person? Do you have a team?
SPEAKER_01I got me and two remote professionals through Wingman Recruitment, Sam and Jory, plug them in. Um and so I've been working with Mark, one of my RPs for a year, and then I've just hired another RP in the last month and a half, Michael. And so he's just come on board. I had someone in Brisbane, Sky, who was amazing. Shout out to Skye. Um, and so she she was with me a year, yeah, just over a year. Um and ultimately moved on. And so, yeah, there's three of us currently. My plan for the next six months is to keep it with the three of us, then probably hire another IP, then look to bring someone in to Queensland as well.
SPEAKER_00What if, with a click of a finger, you could start your own recruitment agency? Well, now you can. With XRecruiter, launching your own agency has never been easier. In less than three weeks, you could be taking home 85% more of your billings with everything handled for you. You recruit, we take care of the rest. Click the link in the description to see if you are ready to take that next step. I'm just gonna give you my two cents. I know you haven't asked for it. For anyone that has blue-collar labor hire experience, the fact that you can essentially run a kick-ass blue-collar labor hire business with yourself and two outsourced professionals is fucking awesome.
SPEAKER_01I think I didn't realize that, you know, in the in the early days, I I had this real, you know, attitude where I had to grow a teen to 20, you know, and that had to be it, and that was the only sign of success. Um it's interesting, Daniel from Vendito. I had a really good chat with him when I was in Sydney, like it was last year, I think, when we went to Sydney, and he gave me a really good perspective on, I guess, you know, different measurements of success within recruitment. And obviously he's in a perm space and very different to Labor Hire. Um and I think there are, you know, there are some fundamental differences in in running a perm desk and running a labor hire desk. But it just it opened my my mind up, I guess, to what is possible and and probably what you want out of a business and how you can grow it and and that timeline and so on and so forth. But you're right, like you know, we've we've got a kick-ass business, there's three of us, um, and there's clear lines to grow it. You know, we just hit PB last month, or last period, which is cool. It's exciting. Yeah. What's your PB? 70,000, 69,000 for the period. A period's four weeks? Yeah, period's four weeks. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which is fucking awesome. What are your average? First 12 months was about 430. So a blue-collar labor hire business, someone who hasn't not been on the tools for five years, doesn't know the area, doesn't know the clients, still gets confused between up the coast or down the coast, comes in and then builds 430k GP in a blue-collar labor hire business in the first 12 months. I think's fucking awesome.
SPEAKER_01I look back at it and I think it's a it's an awesome start. Like I had different goals, but again, I think, you know, coming into it, I just I wasn't probably prepared as to what that actually looked like. I hadn't broken down the numbers. And, you know, I I probably didn't. I say this time and time again, like I worked harder in in my first company than I did in the first year of Rover, which is probably not what I should have done. Um, but again, like priorities come up, like, you know, and and I guess that's where mindsets shifted a little bit, where you know, my focus of the next 12 months is growing the business super sustainably, you know, keeping clients happy, um, you know, acquiring new clients, the right clients that pay well, you know, that are that are partnerships as opposed to you know just solely service focused. Like we had 140k of debt, you know, bad debt come through that you know is like is super challenging for a brand new business, you know. Not all of that's you know straight gross profit, that's revenue and and it wasn't a complete loss. You know, we we worked through it um with ex-recruiters out, to be fair. Um, but I guess those are the challenges with labor hire as well. It is a very, you know, tumultuous business.
SPEAKER_00I get the read that you're running lean, you're running, you you've got the rhythm, you're trying to focus on sustainable growth, not like shooting the lights out as hard and kind of almost burning out in a sense.
Growth Targets And Running Lean
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is a bit of a shift from probably the first year. And you know, even whether that was probably the the goal in the first year, whether I did actually, you know, focus on just blasting it and and and putting everything into it. Um like this year, target baseline target 700 plus and you know, on target to do that. And yeah, I I'm a I'm a firm believer of running lean to a certain extent. Like I get that attitude probably from from Greg who was my first GM with the first business. I think you know, running lean, I think is is good for um a lot of reasons. I think team morale, I think it's actually a smarter move for growth than just sort of plugging people in and hoping they succeed, you know. Um but again, you know, we'll we'll see how we go the next three to six months.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I I again like going from 400 to 700 on track for it. Obviously did a PB almost 70k. Um last was that last month?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, last period, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, how many contractors is that? Like how many temps?
SPEAKER_01The biggest week was 98. 98? Yeah. Out like 98 on payroll.
SPEAKER_00And so it's you and two remote professionals doing BD and managing 98 temps.
SPEAKER_01That was me and one remote professional, to be fair, when we got to 98. That's crazy. That was just before Christmas, it was busy.
SPEAKER_00If there's any blue-collar labor hire recruiters out there, I feel like they should be fucking jacked up listening to this right now around what the potential is. So just explain to me what the day-to-day life is like between you. Are they from the Philippines? Like where are they from? Okay. So we've got two, you've scaled up to two people from the Philippines and just yourself. What does the day in the life look like for rover recruitment for you and your two remote professionals? How does that work like in practice?
SPEAKER_01The like the two two remote professionals, Michael and Mark, their focus is resourcing, screening, recruiting. And so I guess to funnel candidates through to me, so I'm not having to do, I guess, the volume of calls and the volume of screens. And so I can then I guess get in in front of a candidate at probably a further stage and then push them directly through to client for an interview or start and so on. Um and so their focus is recruiting screening. My focus is more towards client acquisition and and account management and so on.
SPEAKER_00You go out, you get a job, you put in the CRM. Michael and Mark see this new job in the CRM warehouse operator in Burp and Garry. They source candidates post a job ad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like we're we're permanently in the market and seek. One of the biggest channels is referrals, like candidate referrals. Um I think that's invaluable. Like, you know, we look I look at a success story last year with one of our larger um freight handling businesses. Um, young kid out of school, um, referred sort of almost 15 candidates through to us that started, worked over 40 hours. Wow, some of which went perm. Um and you know, I guess you're never gonna get a better quality of candidate than than a referral from someone who's going really well, who knows your business, who trusts you, you know, who wants to refer their friends and their family to you. So, you know, that's a that's a a large source of candidates. As I said, we're permanently, you know, advertising the market and seek. Uh Facebook, I think, is underutilized. You know, um, I don't spend a huge amount of time on LinkedIn. I I think I'm seasonal in social media in LinkedIn. I spend a lot of time sometimes and then dial out, but it's also not our candidate demographic.
SPEAKER_00So you put a job in, they um shortlist how many people would they shortlist?
SPEAKER_01We're making around 80 to 100 calls a day.
SPEAKER_00Oh, so Mark and Michael, they will make 80 to 100 calls between them, so 50 each? No, 80 each. 80 each? Yeah. How do you go around like accents? Like, are you we do we have a concern that like, I don't know, you're calling these people and it they've got a a Filipino accent and it like putting these people off or anything?
SPEAKER_01We're working with candidates from all different walks of life and all nationalities, and so I guess you don't know no challenge with accents and and and and so on. Uh no issue at all.
SPEAKER_00Do you ever have challenges with like quality from using a remote professional?
SPEAKER_01We always have challenges with quality in general in blue-collar recruitment. Or recruitment in general, but also blue-collar. Like I think, you know, I've seen like I think you have quality challenges no matter what recruiter you're working with. Like I've worked in recruitment almost 10 years and I've I've sat in interviews where I'm like, I back this person to a hilt, they are a rock star, and call the client, hey, I've got someone for you, I think they're perfect. You know, set up an interview. You'll like sometimes I'm waiting there at 5 a.m. to meet them, to walk them in, to introduce them to the client, no show. You know, and so I think no matter what, that's also I think, you know, an expectation that you have to manage with clients in blue-collar, you know, extensively, because no matter how good you know you think a candidate might be or how suitable the match might be, you know, I've been let down thousands and thousands of times probably, you know, where you're confident it's right, but it's it just doesn't end up working. And so that quality piece, I think you know, people new into recruitment I think will find it more challenging. I say that people who worked through the COVID era in recruitment um have an edge because uh the market changed completely, you know. Yeah. Uh and also I think you know, the candidate market changed dramatically through COVID, work ethic changed dramatically through COVID, uh, and coming out of it, especially in the blue-collar space, the demographic of of hiring good people for long-term roles changed dramatically as well. Um and like my focus has always been tempted perm. I think labor hire, super casual, labor hire has a function, and we do a bit of it for especially for food production companies and packing businesses and so on, but I think the value is is in the temp-to-perm space. Yeah, totally. Yeah, rather than just a short-term solution, it's actually a full hiring strategy. 100%.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So yeah, I I just find it really inspiring. Uh, like if I could have my time again, rewind 10 years, I would be going straight labor hire, me and a couple of remote professionals ripping it like you are. I feel like it's awesome. So, so they're booking in interviews for you to interview them, just to tick and flick, basically, just to go, you do all the ground grunt work, you make your 80 calls, you go, here's five people that I think are good. You only have to spend your time calling the five people and go, yep, they're pretty good. I'm gonna send them to my client.
SPEAKER_01To a certain extent, Mark, Mark's been with me a year, you know, he's he's brilliant, you know, to a certain extent. He's he's managing certain clients day to day. He's managing clients. Well, in terms of rosters and and and and scheduling and and so on. Do they speak on the phone to your clients? Not often, because I guess you know that's my main function where I guess I want to be client-facing, build that relationship, um, and I guess I'm also on site and and can get to site and and and should be spending a lot more time, you know, in the presence of clients face to face. And and so um so yeah, their focus really is on on candidate sourcing and screening. I mean, it's a super challenging market, labor hire. You know, each candidate applies for 40 different jobs at the same time, you know. And so if you're not fast to market to speak into these candidates, then you're losing them to the next job, to the next next role. And I think that's also a sort of teaching requirement to clients as well. Like I had a had a business I worked with a few weeks back. Um, this was for a perm role, actually, but put a candidate forward or put a couple candidates forward to to interview, all three ended up going well. Um, but it was a two-week, three-week cycle to actually hear back um to confirm that the candidates were suitable and they wanted to start by that time the candidates were gone. And that's that's in perma space. Labor high is even faster. Like I think if you're not in front of the candidate within a day of them applying to an ad, then you're probably gonna lose them.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so you got two, you got two remote professionals supporting you with your BD function at the moment. They help you with delivery. It's obviously going well. I mean, what are the what are the next steps from here though? Like, do you just keep getting more jobs on? Are you satisfied with you know 80 to 100 temps out? Is that like cruise mode, living a good life, building 700? You got two remote professionals. I shouldn't say that.
SPEAKER_01I should I shouldn't say cruise mode. Um like I think I'm sure it's not cruise mode, obviously.
SPEAKER_00Anyone in blue collar label high is never in cruise mode. But um, like what is the next steps now being where you are?
SPEAKER_01The focus is, I guess, over the next three to six months, getting this team working really well. And so then I will probably look to bring someone else on board to work directly with Mark and Michael hopefully we're looking at an onshore like someone in Brisbane.
SPEAKER_00No, someone offshore with with Michael and Mark first. So three offshores in you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then at the same time bring someone else within Brisbane that I can work with directly, so I can offload, yeah, I guess, a lot of the account management requirements to that person and then focus on building out another desk or building out a separate, you know, sector, I guess.
SPEAKER_00I think what um Sam and Jory did well is when they built up their desk like you have, they hired someone to take over their desk and started from scratch again.
SPEAKER_01Has that ever crossed your mind? Yeah, and like that that that will probably be the process where, you know, I'll get someone in north, west, south, east Brisbane um to essentially run those areas. You know, it it's been it's actually been challenging the Brisbane market compared to, I guess, the the seven years in New Zealand, because it was very faux hyper focused in a certain area. And Brisbane's huge, you know, and trying to navigate client management and business development and and recruitment across such a wide area. Does have its challenges. And so I think, you know, getting someone into focus on those individual areas will be the natural progression in next year. But that'll probably be this year.
Bad Debt Lessons And Risk Controls
SPEAKER_00Talk to me about some of the challenges, the unexpected challenges that you've you've gone through over the last 16 months. You brought up one around 120K bad debt. How what happened there? How'd you navigate that? Because that's a really big fear for anyone getting into blue collar. Is like, how am I going to afford when a client falls over? It's going to bankrupt me.
SPEAKER_01I mean, there were there were those are two different businesses. One was one went into liquidation, which was an unfortunate scenario. And when it was sort of, I guess no one was to blame. That was 40 grand. And that was unfortunate, could have been, couldn't have really been foreseen. The next one was 100 in warehousing and logistics. I mean still working through it, but I guess we've got um liquidation insurance, which is brilliant, through X recruiter, which is something that is super challenging for a small business to get, to be fair. Um, so that covers the I guess the chunk of it if it's eligible. But that's probably a learning there where I didn't jump on it early enough. Uh you know, I probably let it run a little bit too long.
SPEAKER_00I think like there was red flags and you thought, I it'll be right, it'll be right. Is that like they just weren't paying on time?
SPEAKER_01Like how like what they just weren't paying consistently enough and on time, and it was through the Christmas period, it was ramping up at the same time. You know, I probably should have pulled the trigger on the Christmas side when it was a critical supply of labor, so I had a bit more leverage. But honestly, in the 10 years I've I've worked in recruitment, I've never had this scenario come up either. Never. Like we've had you know, we've had bad debt and challenges, but never a client of that scale that's just failed to pay and basically just failed to communicate. You know, normally normally you can at a certain point jump in and go, hey, look, how's it going? I know there's some challenges, you know, is it cash flow challenges, you know, and and you can sort of work through it. But this one, just no comms, nothing. It's crazy, hey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Talk to me like how you were feeling through that moment. I was probably feeling calmer than I should have. Again, like, you know, the the liquidation insurance piece is reassuring, but again, it doesn't cover it all. Yeah. But again, I just I think I made the right decision. You know, I I guess I probab I probably overtrusted that we were gonna be able to work through it, and you know, someone doesn't just not pay the money they owe. But you know, that's probably naivety as well. Yeah, that's probably new business ownership naivety. Yeah. Um, and also like I didn't, you know, I didn't want to pull staff off from ongoing assignments just before Christmas. You know, we pay weekly, and this was a critical time of year for them as well. And so there was a multitude of factors where I was like, I don't want to pull these guys off. You know, I had 10 to 12 people on site, you know, they were earning good money leading up to Christmas, we're paying them weekly, you know, to pull them off site would have been was a massive decision for them, for me, and for the client. And I was just hoping to work through it. But again, probably slightly naive.
SPEAKER_00What's something that like you really didn't expect or was unforeseen or because if I'm a blue-collar recruiter and I'm like, I'm shitting myself about growing a team. So the fact that you've just touched on like outsource uh professionals is awesome. Um, bad debts is another really big scary part of that. Knowing your knowing knowing your market, knowing your geographies that you didn't know is another really interesting part. I think we're like we've got the trifactor at the moment.
Temp-To-Perm Wins And Real Impact
SPEAKER_01I mean that that's that's honestly what I would say is the most challenging. I think, you know, I I I backed myself in terms of my business development capability, but the volume of business development that you have to do when starting and growing a business is confronting, you know, and the amount of rejections you're getting that probably aren't even fair and warranted. Like a lot of them are probably just like reflexes, you know, another recruitment company calling, boom, go on, move on. You don't get the chance to actually have a proper conversation. Um so that that was probably the most confronting, challenging thing. But again, also like throughout all the rejections, you're getting wins, you know, you're getting cool stories. Um, you know, there's success stories all along as well. So what are some success stories? The biggest success stories are all the candidates we've had go permanent, you know, and and like a big focus I've had since starting the business is is that temp-to-perm process. And I guess, you know, that shows the client that we're getting something right. It shows the candidate and everyone, they know that we're not just focusing on, I guess, like an endless revenue stream for labor hire. And also like a lot of the clients we speak with, that's something they're finding really frustrating, that it's sort of just this endless wagon wheel of labor higher cost as opposed to focusing on a solution, you know? Um so that that like seeing all the candidates that are going perm, you know, starting with no job and heading into a permanent role. Like I've you know, over the years seeing people start in a you know pickpacking role and move into senior management roles. Like there's a guy, Sid, who runs one of the biggest ECs in in New Zealand for foodstuffs, he started as a pickpacker. Um, yeah, and I think you know, labor high can probably get a bit of a bad rap, um, especially in terms of candidate reliability and all this kind of thing. But but actually there's some huge success stories that come through from people getting an opportunity and a shot and a chance, you know, which they probably wouldn't if they were applying direct to you know the big corporations of the world. They'd just be C V tossed out, not looked at.
SPEAKER_00What about some of the things that you might be procrastinating on?
SPEAKER_01There's a lot I procrastinate a lot, so there's probably a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00What's like something that is on your plate and you're procrastinating on making a decision? Do you have something like that at the moment?
Working In Versus On The Business
SPEAKER_01The biggest thing I was thinking about actually coming into in here today was around the working on the business and in the business. I'm in this sort of period where not big enough to spend more time or a huge amount of time working on the business. Um, I need to be in the business, but I see opportunity for growth where if I had more time to probably step back and more of a team to run things, then I'd I'd probably be able to grow faster and and do more. You know, but is that what you want? Yeah, like it is in in time, but again, as I said, like you know, grow sustainably. But I think that's the the you know, you always hit that point where you get to a point of of you know volume and you need someone else, and there's always sort of that like yin and yang point. It's probably one of the hardest transitions to make. Yeah, when to trigger to pull someone and you know, bring someone in and that kind of thing. Yeah. And so that's probably the neck, you know, the next challenge I'm gonna face. When do I bring someone in and what position do I bring them in? Who what does that person look like? Um but I guess that's just part of it.
SPEAKER_00It's the journey of starting and running and growing a business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00So I think we've had an awesome discussion. We're 55 minutes in. No way, geez. Which it feels like has been fun. That's funny.
SPEAKER_01I talk a lot, so I shouldn't be.
SPEAKER_00No, no, this has been awesome. Like I I I genuinely feel excited when I hear about you running rover recruitment. And I'm not sure if you can feel it through how I talk about it, but it's actually really cool. The fact that you can start a business, you can win purely on grit, yeah, you can get some remote professionals which de-risk like the the really challenging part of like growing a little blue-collar labor hire business. Yeah, you obviously you're with ex-recruiter, so a lot of your back office stuff gets um uh handled as well. There's still, you know, you still got to do a lot yourself, but um, it just getting the right support, yeah, allowing someone to be a one-man operation essentially here in Brisbane to run a blue-collar labor hire, like that's just I find that awesome.
SPEAKER_01I know I'm a bit of a procrastinator on certain things as well. And so I think if I'd started, if I'd if I'd gone to try and start the business solely on my own, in a garage, yeah, it would have been significantly challenging for me. And I and I think yeah, that's probably what I'm missing the most. I think someone, yeah, a partner or someone to consistently bounce ideas off. You know, that's that's something I've been thinking of lately as well. Around, you know, I think I worked exceptionally well in a team and with people and and so on. So that's something that I think you miss, but also that comes with the the growth and and so on with starting a business as well. That's just part of the part of some of the challenges, you know.
SPEAKER_00Now, if recruiters could only take away one key lesson from this episode, what should it be?
One Lesson And How To Reach Theo
SPEAKER_01Understanding your client and managing expectations is the most important thing. Uh like a lot of a lot of clients I speak with, and probably the most common piece of feedback I get is, you know, recruiters overpromising, underdelivering, not knowing what we're needing. And I, you know, I see that burning out the market significantly. So, you know, spending proper adequate time actually getting to know your client, you know, getting on site, understanding the team, the culture, the personas, you know, what the right person is for that role. I think that's what recruiters should probably take out of it, especially in blue collar. And I th it'll have a benefit for every single recruiter in the industry as well. It's spending the right adequate amount of time understanding if you're the right business for, you know, if you're the right recruiter for that business, getting out to site, understanding what exactly they do, what exactly your team members are going to do, you know, who the team leader is that they're gonna report report to, who they're working with, all the small things that probably don't come through in a job brief that, you know, are more important probably than just the skill set that's required of a candidate. Because I say it all the time, every single business is really different. Whether you're working with a food manufacturing company that makes, you know, protein bars and another one that makes protein bars, they'll be drastically different due to leadership, culture, and so on. And so there's no other way to fit, you know, understand that properly than get in to site and then also manage expectations on what the market looks like.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Theo, a huge thank you for coming on confessions, sharing your journey. It's inspiring. If anyone wants to learn more about what you do, how you do it, I'm really confident there's going to be a bunch of blue-collar labor hire recruiters being like, wow, what is Theo getting up to? Like, would you mind if people reach out to you? Like how do people get a hold of you?
SPEAKER_01My LinkedIn, as I said, I'm a bit seasonal on LinkedIn, I sort of pop in and out. Um LinkedIn, my website, but I'm always happy for a chat. Like, I've really enjoyed having some of the conversations with new ex-recruiter partners coming on board and how they're finding it, you know, what my thoughts are. I think you know, the ex-recruiter community has been awesome. Um and and something new, you know, stepping into it from New Zealand, recruitment's always been a hyper competitive space where it's not too friendly. But what I've learned over the last you know year and a half is actually probably some of the best pieces of information I've got from you know, is as ex-recruiter partners and your competitors. Yeah. So yeah, love to have a chat. Reach out, give me a call, text, you know, we'll love to grab a coffee and go from there. Let's go.
SPEAKER_00Well, thanks for tuning in to this episode of Confessions of a Recruiter with Theo from Rover Recruitment, and we'll see you next time. Love it. Cheers, guys.