Making Pondo with Eric Schumacher

 In this episode we talk to Eric Schumacher. Eric played the character John Burns in three of our films: "Writing Fren-Zee," "Revenge of Zoe" and "The Love Song of William H. Shaw."

Writing Fren-Zee Trailer

Love Song Trailer

Zhon Trailer

Crewing Up

TusCon Link

An American in Paris Trailer

Brigadoon Trailer

St. Louis Blues (1958) Trailer

Tombstone Rashomon Trailer

Horse Camp Trailer

seeliestudios.com

ericschumacherfilm.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Making Pondo and Talking Pondo. Talking Pondo is a podcast where we pick out two movies each week and talk about them in detail. Making Pondo is a podcast where we talk to people we've made films with and we discuss all their experiences on set. Today on Making Pondo, we feature Eric Schumacher, who has acted in three of our feature films, and we even co-wrote the web series John the Alien Interviews for him. Alright, and welcome back.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Yes. Um today on Making Pondo, uh we have Eric Schumacher, the actor, producer, director, all around extraordinaire guy.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

I'm extraordinary? Cool. I've always wanted to be that. Can I can I put that in my bio from now on? You can extraordinary guy? We said it, so it must be true. Must be true. Yeah, this is media, so it has to be true.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

So we we've been working with Eric for uh oh well over a decade now. Multiple projects we've done with Eric. Eric, how how did you start working with us, or how how did you find Pondo? What was the first uh thing that brought you to us?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

You know, it's actually one of my favorite stories about how a great creative collaboration was formed, um, which I do consider our collaboration to be that. Um so I had just uh done a season of a very early, one of the first uh narrative streaming series uh called Crewing Up. And I played a character called Frank Mann, who was kind of a turd, really not a not a pleasant person, kind of a dumbass, uh, and a lot of fun. He was he was you know some of the best comedy in the series. I was fortunate that some of the best comedy in the series came from that character. And uh so I was starting to develop a little bit of a fan base uh for the first time. And uh I uh saw an audition notice at this point uh, you know, headquartered in Tucson, Arizona, and I saw an audition notice uh preface this by I'm a mega nerd. I you know spent many, many, many hours hanging out with my pals in a comic book store and late nights and in the back of the comic book store debating things. So I'm I'm I'm a nerd. I'm uh I'm a I'm nerd royalty, I'd like to think. If I I try to be. So uh uh anyway, I saw this this uh notice for an audition that was happening for a s a film set in a comic book store, and I had to get there.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

So do you remember what the audition, what the actual ad said? What do you remember?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I don't remember much except that there were that it had to do with a comic book store, and I needed to go to find out what it was uh because that's a rarity. You know, it's a rarity nerd culture films, as much as they are beloved by nerds like me, are rare. They just don't happen that often. And uh so it was I just had to check it out.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

And I Especially back in 08.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, yeah, true, true, true. I mean it's it's certainly grown because uh it's now acknowledged that uh you know nerds like us don't have don't have to be uh you know, are are less put upon, you know. Uh most more people acknowledge that they like fandom and and are uh and and nerd out about something. And so it's uh it's a lot easier to be a nerd these days. And of course the uh commercial power of nerdism is you know finely acknowledged. So um the commercial power of nerdism. It's well it's true. I mean, you know, what look when when we went from at one point decades ago, your standard uh science fiction or fantasy convention would maybe you know be a couple of hundred people and now and that still happens at some really great small conventions, uh, but also we have Comic Cons where 130,000 people show up. You know, and that's cool. So these are cool actually. I love the intimate experience as well. But anyway, so short story, uh, or shorter story, I I went to the audition and uh I was handed sides by someone, and uh and for those who don't know who aren't in the industry, sides are pieces of the script that are used to to read and to audition. So they're usually, you know, maybe one to three pages, they're usually very short, so you kind of get in and get out. And I was handed a small book. Uh it was a large chunk of the script, about three scenes, and and I read it, and I immediately fell in love with a particular character, John. Uh I I said to myself, this this guy is basically me, but you know, but a little bit a little bit more frenetic, a little bit more um uptight. Uh and I know this guy, I know this guy. I really, you know, rarely in an audition do I really want to roll as badly as I wanted it when I read that character. So I'm sitting there reading it and and really finding him quickly. And uh and now I start to get nervous. I mean, you know, now I really want this thing. Uh so I I'm I'm called into the audition room, I walk in, and this uh very nice fellow with uh very good energy um looks up at me and says, Oh my god, you're Frank Mann. And I went, and so I gave I gave I gave the read and fortunately didn't entirely screw it up and uh uh and was cast as uh as John, John Burns. Uh the role I was hoping for.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

And that and they used to show the crewing up web show on the access station, and and that's where I had discovered you from. So I was already watching that show because uh Jonathan Ziggler, who was one of the camera operators and sound operators on Writing Frenzy, he was involved in that show too, and I already knew him, and so just that small town let us between each other.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

It was a small homegrown thing, and I was just coming out of out of theater uh and and really pushing art into media, and it it was a really great opportunity to get out there in something that was relatively new in the world. And uh yeah, and so and so great. I mean, you know, that's uh it was just it was a it was a a a nice series of events, and uh and then of course uh we worked together on writing frenzy, and uh that's still, you know, as as small and and and and challenging as so many things were just by the nature of the massiveness of the project and the and the few hands to make it work, it still stands as one of my favorite filmmaking experiences. And uh and I think from that uh in particular uh Marty and I formed a solid uh um friendship and collaboration and uh as I did with a number of other people who worked on that, like uh uh Nate Campbell, of course, who played uh played Pete and still does. Um and and pretty much is Pete in real life, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Well, I mean to to that note, I mean the it's like uh I was Marty and I talked about this after we did all of our interview, you know, all of our auditions and stuff, and it was just there was really no I Marty, I really don't remember there being any any really thought of anybody else doing those two roles.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yeah, they were doing every role in the world.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Yeah. And they had never been anything before, and he's he was just so his comedic timing is just so natural.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah, really. Uh it it's uh yeah, I know that was I know that was a very early role for him, and uh we just you know, we clicked uh and and exactly that, yeah, his comedic timing was right on, and uh um, you know, and and we're not exactly those people off off screen. Uh and and in fact, you know, this is unusual for me because I'm best known for disappearing. I'm best known for playing people nothing like me, or very, very far away from me. Um so it was odd that I would, you know, find a role that was so close to uh large aspects of me and that I'd want it.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Uh yeah, I remember you saying something like, Yeah, I normally I play like tough guys and I do action stuff and and that in you know, yeah, I didn't know that you had a you know you had your kung fu and background martial arts background and had been studying for years, but I thought, this guy really? Like the only thing I've ever seen is John. It's John. And I'm like, that that's that's not a John doesn't beat people up.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Like where all the slapping skills come from.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Yeah, slapping skills come from. Yeah, you good point.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

It's it it that was fun, you know. In the in writing frenzy, there's that there's that scene where John and Pete have a slapping fight. And uh and you know, I've uh as much as I've trained in martial arts, I'm I'm no fight choreographer. Um and uh you know, so it's so that you have to actually when you've when you've trained in the science of of hand-to-hand combat, you you have you you have to very consciously not actually use it when you're doing a real you know fight scene. And and in the case of a slappy scene, it was it was actually kind of liberating to just, you know, do exactly the opposite of everything you're trained. Um and a and a great deal of uh great deal of fun. Um yeah. So it it's it's true. I mean, I often do play intimidating characters and uh uh either that or you know, really whack job oddballs. Um and so uh you know the uh Frank Mann was actually quite an exception to that rule as well. He was he was uh you know just uh kind of a doofus.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Um but it reminds me a lot of Andy from The Office.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Without the singing, but that sort of that that sort of energy and that sort of jackass ring. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Um interestingly enough, since then I've continued to play a lot of mostly, you know, kind of uh badass tough guy characters, or again, just sort of people who are you know just borderline insane or things like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah, I'd like to I'd like to delve into that a little bit more here. Uh you know, writing frenzy is always going to be a special project to me. It's it's the first Pondo project where everything really clicked into place and everything's kind of been solid since then. Of course, there's ups and downs, but that was the one where it was like, yes, we really can make something of quality that people are responding to. And then that led us into uh uh writing the uh web show uh John the Alien interviews with you, where you get to play another not similar character, but like you're saying, one of these I don't know, is is the is the agent Killjoy a badass Cliff? Uh I think he won he thinks he is in his mind.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

I think I think that I think he is. I think he I don't think that he thinks he is. Does that make sense? Right. Like I I think he's got the skills. I just don't think he that that's the first place he goes when he's dealing with situations.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Right. I think the I think yeah, David is uh a favorite character of mine, and you guys wrote him. Uh thanks. Um and uh and I was uh you know, of course, uh you know, did uh a lot of the producing on that show and and played David and and uh what was what I what I really appreciated about David or and the way that I felt that he needed to be played ex was exactly that, Cliff. He he was a character who um he didn't go to violence first or even second or third, but he had it. He you know behind him he you know he was you know, he was very tough, but would only use that as a last resort and instead would use psychological means or uh um and actually his main feature, I think, was that he really he felt he had a duty. You know, he was he was all about doing the right thing. And as he changed his understanding of circumstances, what the right thing was became clearer and changed.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Yeah, that's that's well said, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

And that was really what motivated him was a sense of duty to to protect people, really. That's what he was about.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Well, and it seemed like in the beginning of the show he was like, yeah, you know, because he works with his dad and he works for the government. So he's like, these are the things I trust. I trust my dad and the government. And then by the end of it, he's like, I don't trust either of those things.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

You know, and instead I trust the people that I know.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

You trust yeah, that was it. You know, it ended up that that he he found a different family, um, which is actually kind of a pondo theme.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Um when you work with that's kind of why we're making this, I think it's because when you for us, I I feel like it's almost like a historical document. Um the people that we've worked with and talking about the films that we've made, and also I mean, we've said it a million times. Once you work with us, you're sort of in the family. You're you're you're you're Pondo-esque. So you know, we you and you you've seen it. We use a lot of the same people in our films over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, definitely. And that's a that's a it's a good thing to do when when when all of the chemistry works and when everyone works well together and meshes well together, um you know, you know what you get. And uh there's a certain level of familiarity and trust that comes with that relationship that's very hard to um you know, it's nice when you're not starting from zero. Yes. Plus you get to see everybody, man.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Like I mean, yeah. I mean, I I I I that's one of my favorite things, is writing Julie into a part in a movie because I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get to see how she, you know, I'm gonna get to see her on set and see how she's doing.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Right, yeah. I know. I think I I think when I met her on Writing Frenzy, she was she was 16 at the time, if I recall. Now she's a doctor. Now she's a doctor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Like just yesterday, it was like, I have to leave. I'm a minor, I can't stay here past a certain time. Oh yeah, you do have to leave. Okay, see you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

She's got her mom on set watching us the whole deal. It was and now it's you know, I'll just fly over there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

No problem, guys. So with Jean, uh, was that the first time you did a producing uh role, Eric?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Not at all. No. I've I I had uh I'd done much smaller stuff. I'd mostly done uh things like uh commercials and uh um smaller smaller video pieces. I'd also done a lot of other stuff behind the scenes. I I uh um I was the uh floor director for a political talk show that we shot a lot of and never actually got off the ground, uh bunch of other stuff like that. Um and uh but this was the first time that I'd you know said let's do something completely insane and long and large. Um and so it was certainly the first time I'd produce anything on that size.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Uh so is acting is acting your main field in film? Is that the main thing you would like to pursue? Is is the acting part? It's evolved.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Uh, you know, I mean actually.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Because I noticed you you produce, you write, you do a bunch of other things. But what would the main things be if you had your druthers, what would you like to do in film?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

You know, I I think I at this point, um, I think, you know, if you'd asked me that Mac that question four years ago, I would say that that if I could just act, that would be great. Um now, if you ask me that question, the answer is that I would I I like the idea of dividing my time between uh between acting, producing, and directing. Um I I there are a lot of aspects of each that are very hard, as you guys very well know, um, and that are sometimes not a lot of fun. And there are a lot of aspects of each that are extremely rewarding. And uh so I do I do like the idea. I mean, as an act acting is still my first love and it's where my first training came. Uh I was raised by actors and uh and and they and some of their colleagues taught me up very well and uh gave me a lot of hard to come by knowledge and and then I sought it elsewhere and I've I've always had a strong passion for for that process and that art and for what can you know be made out of it. Um but as but I'd always in the back of my mind I'd always wanted to also create things. And as I learned more and more and studied, um I realized that there is an opportunity as an artist to create the stage and then sometimes perform on it as well. And that there's a gr a lot of value in creating the stage too. Um and sometimes and there's also a lot of joy in working with other artists. So, you know, as a producer you you you know, you uh if you're the the for lack of better words, the creating producer, you know, you you you d design the product, you design the world that that people are gonna play in and you work with others to do that if you can. And then as a director you mold the world. And you mold and you work with actors and techni technical folks to uh you know, and and other other arts folks to to make the world into a particular vision that often evolves into something that that's something that the group puts together. Um and you know, so there's really a lot of value in each. Um there are I I I I like telling certain kinds of stories, and I think what really got me into producing is that uh you know, there aren't always opportunities. And uh so so I realized that I had the aptitude and the skill sets to create the those opportunities for me and for others. And I'm also quite passionate about creating opportunity for others, creating uh business models that will, you know, hopefully lead to um greater careers for worthy people who are willing to work hard. And uh and also as a just as a general, you know, nerd, uh it's like oftentimes uh depending upon trends and and geographic locations and a variety of other things, you you or or even just your own reputation as a performer, what you've done before, like you know, if somebody had only seen me as John Burns, I would never have played Doc Holliday, right? If somebody had only seen me as Doc Holliday, I'd never played John Burns. Um but there's a lot more in me and a lot and a lot more that I want to do. So, you know, if to be quite frank, while there was a greater vision to John, um for for for me alone, aside from the you know, the the goals that I have had had for everyone's careers related to that, um I wasn't getting cast in enough sci-fi nerd stuff. And uh and I and I wanted that. Um and so you know, that for me that that was part of the goal was to create the opportunity. And in the process it also created some opportunities for others, which is you know, which was really quite a quite an equal goal for me. I I wanted everyone to have more opportunity, and since then I've continued to pursue that and and occasionally been able to create some opportunities for for folks. Well, you know, I think one thing though that is important for me as a producer if I'm casting myself, and I don't always do that. And I think that's important for me to say for me. I, you know, I'm conscious of wanting certain roles and occasionally creating those opportunities. But I don't cast myself unless I believe I'm the right fit. And there have been multiple times where I've run a project and in and run the project with the idea of, oh yeah, I'll cast myself in that role. That's great for me. And then someone else will audition and I'll go, okay, Eric, you're out. Sorry. You know that speaks to your character because if I don't know if I can do that. I don't care. When the the di you know, there ultimately I think this is critical for everyone on every aspect of a production actor, director, producer, you know, cinematographer, audio, um uh uh audio folks, etc. I'm gonna slaughter the correct titles, but basically, you know, you serve the project. Yeah. You serve you serve the narrative. You serve what's ultimately your piece of art that is intended to create community with your audience. Right. And if anything you do doesn't serve that, you're wrong.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

So what was it like to play the same character three times? Because you've you've you've you've played John Burns now in three sep well, uh I mean, we created a trilogy out of that first writing frenzy film. So what what was that like? I don't I mean, I I don't I I don't think a lot of actors get to play the same character three different times.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

You're right, and especially with so many with you know years in separation, that's quite interesting. I've played characters in series and that's one thing, and it's quite interesting. Um I've played characters in plays that had a long, you know, story arc, I've played characters in movies that had a, you know, that had a a story arc, but to step away and come back and step away and come back is almost BBC style, you know. Um so it was it's really interesting, and it's been in particular particularly interesting with John because again, there's so many personality similarities. Um what is uh you know, uh to some degree it's the same thing that you get when you're playing a character in a series, which is that you learn about them over time. And it also happens actually when you're in a s a theater show in particular, because there's a run, right? And so you start with your f your opening night, and uh it well of course your rehearsals and all that, and then you get into opening night, and then once you're implementing on stage, you start to discover new things. And if there's a long run, you discover a lot of things over time. You're saying the same lines doing functionally the same things, but your understanding of the character is evolving, and if you're really alive in the role, then every performance is a growth from the last. With John. Yeah, exactly. And so with John, it's been similar in that, you know, when I first met John, uh, as I like to put it, you know, when I first met John, I understood certain things about him. And then throughout the course of playing him and writing Frenzy, I learned about him and evolved my understanding of who he was as a person and what what he cares about, what motivates him. Uh and so then stepping away for a while, but still having that that wonderful experience firmly set in my mind, when we did writing Frenzy, at this point, my knowledge of him grew quite a lot. And of course, the script and the other characters and the other performers, and of course our directors and so on, further informed me about who he was in relation to other people, which is a lot of how people evolve. You know, they they change and grow depending upon the stimulus given to them mostly by other people. And so uh understanding what was happening in his in his world at the time brought brought yet greater clarity of who he is as a person and made me respond, I think, in a mu in a much more nuanced way, despite that, you know, this is still this is kind of uh you know, it's still goofy comedy, but there's comedy doesn't work if there isn't any reality in it. And so you still have to search your soul and respond truthfully um and maybe use some comedic techniques to make it a little extra funny, but ultimately if you're not responding from a place of feeling something, it's flat and it just isn't funny. Um so, you know, so it's always so it was always that matter as as uh, you know, now there's some time in between, and that was also the way the script was written, although, you know, less time in the real world than was in the script, um, from Writing Frenzy to uh uh Revenge of Zoe, uh I gained a lot of new perspective and it was comfortable, you know. I I could walk into John and still be challenged to find how he felt about certain things and then to to to feel that and let it come out. Uh, and then of course do all the technical stuff you have to do as an actor as well. But uh, you know, but that process was less of a struggle because he never left me. You know, he continued to grow, as do all the characters that I play, they kind of live in me somewhere. And I see I even kind of check in with them sometimes. And every once in a while they kind of come out. You know, I'll be I'll be, you know, doing something and you know, they'll come out. I'll have a skill set I don't actually have suddenly, or I'll or I'll uh you know, I'll I'll approach something from a completely different perspective because I had to be that person for a while. And so uh so John comes out every once in a while still. So that was really interesting, and then playing him again in um uh Love Song, um, you know, it it the script itself again is you know was was a was a was a a completely different phase of his life and Pete's life and and the other characters in that world. And and things were I think a lot more on edge for him than they were in the other scripts. They were I would yeah, I'd agree with you. Things were much more urgent and he didn't have his one safety zone for a lot of the film, which was Pete. And uh so I I I I learned a lot more about him again playing him in Love Song, especially as he wasn't with his basically his soulmate, you know. Um and uh and he had to fly alone and he realized that uh you know, as much as he liked to think that he knew everything, boy, he really didn't. And uh he had to kind of unfortunately acknowledge that Pete knew a lot of things he didn't. And uh you know, as is I think quite brilliantly and and in very funny ways evidenced by what happens in John's store versus Pete's. Um and I won't drop any spoilers, but there's some really funny stuff. Um so, you know, and then as as we uh towards the end of the film, uh as as there's uh um well it's I I don't want to spoil anything again, but you know, let's just say that John and Pete do talk. Um, you know, it it who he is as a person becomes that much more clarified. And uh so it's just been a very interesting evolution of uh of character um and it's been nice to not just let a character evolve in my own psyche, but actually then work that with other performers uh over a period of time. And it's also been quite nice that some of them are really, you know, are the same people. Um so you know, you're you're all kind of checking in, not just with each other, but you're checking in with your characters as as they've grown.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

It's been it's been fun to watch for sure. Um from I I mean, from my you know, I sit behind the camera and watch everything that goes on. So it's it's been fun to watch you evolve as you know, watch you have not I wouldn't say evolve as an actor, I mean that in that in that sense of like. Sure, sure. Yeah, as you as you practice your craft, you get better. But uh I mean you were already good when we hired you. I I didn't mean to imply that, but what I meant was to to watch you grow with the character as an actor. It was very, very interesting. You know, and we when we got on the set of revenge, it was you in those early days, you were it was I remember you being very locked in very early. Yeah. Right. Where it was like you weren't you weren't searching for anything. We weren't doing extra takes because you couldn't find where John was. It was there he is, right there. Go. It was it was really fun to watch.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Thank you. Yeah, it's you know, and actually I do want to speak to that one thing, which is evolution, um, because it's not just a character evolution. I mean, you know, uh acting like any other really profound art form is an evolution of the mind, the soul, the spirit, the body, everything, and and the art form. You know, I mean, uh, you know, if if you're a pretty good painter and ten years later you paint exactly the same way with the same level of skill, what is wrong with you? You know, you're not doing art anymore, you're just copying. Um and so uh, you know, as an actor, every character also teaches me more about acting. And every film teaches me more about acting. It's an interesting process, I gotta say, in that, at least for me, I uh and I should say for me, everyone has a really a different experience. And I shouldn't, you know, say that anyone's process is less valid than any others. They are not, you know, everyone has their own their own story arc and their own growth arc and their own who they are as a performer. Everybody arrives there a different way. Yeah, and you know what if somebody plays the same thing the same way all the time, it maybe that's their joy. And so I don't want to take away from that. But for me, because I'm always I always I push myself very, very hard. Um very, very, very, very hard. Uh because I want to be at my apex every second I'm on the screen, which is which I don't always accomplish. In fact, I from from in my opinion, I rarely accomplish, but but by pushing that hard, I have moments that I wouldn't have otherwise and sometimes they're pure magic. And so what is I find that with it's quite it's a little bit different with John because I play I played him for so long. A little bit different. But generally speaking, with each role that I take on, especially since again I often take on roles that are not me and and are far away from who I am as a person, um I almost have to relearn acting. I I I have to take all of the process that I have and all the skills that I have and all the tools that I have and adapt them to something very new. And oftentimes it's terrifying because I've taken a role. I know I'm capable of playing the role from past experience of playing lots of roles that are challenging, but I the one golden rule for me, again, you serve the project, and so that is if I'm walking on set for my part, I will not fail my team. I will not fail them. So I will do everything in my power to not fail them. And when there are those moments where it's like the lines aren't coming, the emotion isn't coming, something isn't working, it's absolutely terrifying. And those are the worst moments for me as an actor. When I find it and when it's all working, after going through that process, it's like climbing a mountain, climb climbing an emotional and spiritual mountain, and I've reached the top. And then I do it again. Hey, it's it's Everest, but taller with different crags, you know. So really it is an evolution. And so all the other stuff that I've done in between John and all of the times that I've played John were also, they were an evolution of John, but it was an evolution of me as an actor and as a person. Uh, because I think that's also important to the art, is that you grow as a person and grow your understanding of, you know, the world's people, spirit, everything. And so that also informs how well I can interpret what I've learned about John and how well I can put that out on the screen.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

It's interesting when you talk about evolution. Um William Goldman's book, uh, Which Lie Did I Tell, he talks about actors and he doesn't talk very fondly about them at times. Um and he specifically talks about a certain type of actor that doesn't ever grow, doesn't ever evolve because they they find that one. They find that one character that the audience responds to, and then he said no matter what movie they're in, they're always trying to get that character back into the film, right? So if you watch a Clint Eastwood movie, it's Clint, it's it's the same sort of no knock on Clintwood like a but it's the same kind of guy. If you watch from Dirty Harry to Anywhich Wave It Lose to Hell Million Dollar Baby. It's the same guy. Like he's playing somebody else, obviously, but there's still that gruffle tough guy thing, right? Um, which is very interesting. That's why I like Tom Cruise. You know, he you know, I action event movies. That's what I do. I'm Tom Cruise, and great on him. I mean, Top Gun, the last Top Gun was fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Um Well, I I think it's I I would like to, you know, and I want to address that also. I think there are different types of actors. And so uh, you know, I do I would kind of want to retract one of the statements I made earlier in one remote. Damn it. But you know, but I do think it's I think it's important to know that there are different kinds of actors and that there and there are two sides to performance as an actor. You know, there's the art and there's the business. And uh and and there's also you know, there's different layers of actors. I mean, some some actors, their whole art is evolving that one character through decades. And that's an art.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

It you know, it is perfect, perfect example of Eastwood.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, Eastwood, or even, you know, and in fact, uh Tom Cruise gets a lot of shade, but I have I have a I have a lot of respect for him as a performer. Yeah, I'm not shading him at all. I do too.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

I and he found that character and he went he went for it.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yeah, and you know, and and you've seen that evolve over time. And and yet it's functionally the same person, uh functionally the same character, just as it has been for a lot of other people, Jack Nicholson, etc. And here's the thing about that kind of actor is that one, maybe that's artistically fulfilling for that person. I certainly hope it is, and they certainly do seem to put a lot out on screen when they're playing that same person over and over again. But audiences also, you know, particularly within certain genres or within certain personalities that they click with, l often do like to see that character portrayed over and over again. It's kind of like fan fiction in a way. It's like, well, how would okay, so now what if I took the character from Die Hard and I put him in a sitcom?

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

That's interesting to them. And and and I admit I find that interesting as well. That's fancy. As an artist myself, as an artist myself, I I that's not me. You know, as an artist myself, I feel the call to stretch my boundaries as far as I can stretch them within reason. And and that's what lights me on fire is is getting over that Mount Everest and going, ha, climbed another, yay, climbed another really difficult, confusing, almost insurmountable mountain, and actually, you know, and and and actually was somewhat believable. That's great. I did that. That's good. And that's what that's the kind of art where, you know, but there's a there's also a downside to that from a career perspective, which is that um, you know, people don't know how to cast you a lot of the time, except in the last year.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Hollywood wants a repeatable, you know, Hollywood wants a repeatable, bankable thing, which is why you see Tom Cruise in a bunch of movies.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

You know, I've been told by casting directors and various other people in in the in the sh in the Hollywood world, you know, create a create a personality card. I forget the name that they use for it, but you know, create a card and it basically tells people this is the kind of character you play, and this, you know, and here's, you know, we're gonna orient you to look this way. And and I say, no, sorry. I mean, you know, I get it. I understand. If you see, you know, if if I always play the best friend character, then it's really easy to cast me as the best friend character. Um, and I understand that that could be really beneficial to my career. But again, you know, if no b if everyone had only seen me as as John Burns or as Frank Mann, who would have who would have cast me as Doc Holiday? Who would have cast me as White Herp? Who would have cast me as as uh and you know Bill in Horse Camp or any of these other really unusual characters that I've had the opportunity to play? And uh and what and for me, you know, again as an art, it's like I, you know, basically I gotta I gotta I got a slab of stone and I need to find I need to find the st I need to find the statue in it. And that's and I and I personally nerd out on that. I mean I I I do love the work of some of those actors who play the same character over and over again. But on the other hand, the ones who I really click with are, you know, those actors who disappear like like I try to do.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Well, as far as evolving as as uh from each project, what was it like stepping into a producer role in Revenge of Zoe with us, as well as acting again in the project?

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Interesting question, yeah. Um, you know, so it's there's producing and there's producing, and and you know, for again for the layman, for those who are just aren't familiar with the industry, when you say you're a producer, nobody actually knows what the hell that is. Um because there's a lot of different kinds of producers. And and it's actually gotten more confusing lately because uh just by the nature of you know the necessity of of funding things, oftentimes people get a producer title for contributing some money to crowdfunding or something. And it that's not invalid, you know. When you put money into a project, you're that's part of producing. That's what it's a type of producing. Um, you know, but then there's the on the ground getting it done producers, and there's lots of different kinds of those depending upon the project. It has become a rather nebulous term for those who are involved at a higher level, um, a decision-making type level typically, or a lar, you know, or a larger team running level on a project that isn't something as specific as assistant director. Um so uh so it's a lot of the stuff that I produced were things where I was the producer, you know, the one who got it going and basically made the the main decisions and handled all the business end and everything else, and then maybe there were other people working under me in that process, but I was the I was the final call. So in this case, this is you know, this was uh this was uh and and I've and I've been hired as a producer as well on projects where it was very clear this is this is your only role, and you know, here's your check, go do this, you know. And uh um and and in our world, it it's a little different in that, you know, on the one hand, uh it's always a ultimately you guys, Marty and Cliff, are the are the are the primary decision makers, it's your baby. On the other hand, there's such a familiarity built that I can consult a lot more than I would on some of those other hired producer projects. And and of course, between all of us. Yeah, and and our general agreement was you know handle what handle what you're best at, and maybe a couple other things too, because you know, we don't have a large team. Because everybody's wearing nine hats. Yeah, it's just the necessity of a small indie film. So um it's uh I it it's been a pretty overall, I mean there's certainly been challenges and and you know, there's always uh um you know, just by the nature of making a movie, there's always uh especially when you're on the prime the the you know the top level decision-making team are close to it, you see a lot more of the the scary stuff and the challenges than you allow the cast and the crew to see. But um you know, overall it's been really a very uh mostly a very smooth collaboration. And uh um and it wasn't I mean it was different for me in that I had more duties. So on the one hand, as it always is when I do any producing stuff and act, it's a challenge because there's a lot to do and I'm still working as an actor. It's been nice that I was playing John because even though I'm still growing in that character, um, I knew him so well that I wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like trying to find a character that I had no familiarity with at all and going through that for me extremely challenging and time-consuming process while also producing, which I have done before. Um but uh, you know, so at least there was there was that, and I didn't have to do quite as much prep work for John uh the second time around and the third time around. But uh but it was also I mean it was one of the more comfortable producing experiences in general because uh you know it was also I've like I produced I've I've been hired I've been hired gun as a producer in some cases where I would work with someone who did not necessarily have a lot of producing skill sets previously. And so, you know, it's it's sometimes hard to make your point when someone doesn't have experience. Um and in this, you know, in the case in this case, it's like, you know, I have something to say, I'm gonna say it, you'll understand it, and then you'll make a decision, and most of the time it works, you know, and uh and that's uh that's a lot easier. It's it's it's been uh you know, it's so I I I guess I'm not I don't I don't know if I'm answering the question well because it's been a lot of things. Overall, though, um, you know, because we again we had this trust and this friendship and this collaboration built over years, and over the years, of course, you know, I mean, like any creative collaboration, we've also had some some arguments and stuff, and that's and and and then come through that and grown as you know as people and gotten closer as a result of it, a lot of that stuff was out of the way. So, you know, um and and so as a result uh it was I think one of overall one of one of the more pleasant uh producer collaboration experiences where I wasn't top dog, um, because you know, uh I knew that there were basically I I felt like we all had each other's backs and there wasn't uh you know um we weren't gonna we weren't going to have child arguments that you might have when you're first working with somebody that are you know about you know figuring out territory or boundaries and all those other things. It's we know that stuff very well and respect each other. And so, you know, it's really going to be more about if there is an argument, it's only going to be about you know about serving the project. And because we set those boundaries at the beginning, even if I disagreed with something, which I must say was quite rare. Um quite rare, but even if I did disagree with something, you know, we'd we decided what the hierarchy ultimately was because it's necessary to have one. And okay, there it is. Decision made, I've said my piece. And and, you know, again, like proofs in the pudding. It worked, you know. Um, and uh, and that's nice. You know, it's also been quite nice. There have been times where I've um produced in a partnership and you know and ended up doing more than I had bargained for, um, and uh wasn't always sure if everyone could do their part. And uh um, and that uh, you know, it's been uh what it's also nice w to know that like if Marty's planning the shoot, I don't have to worry about that. I don't have to worry about it. If you guys are collaborating on directing, you don't need me to say anything. You know, except, hey, I don't know if you noticed this, but there's, you know, there's he has a black eye. Didn't have it yesterday, you know. And you know, I mean, stuff that just might have gotten missed with too many things, but generally speaking, uh, you know, so it's really nice to know that when there's a handoff, it's handed off.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Well, we believe, and I think we've said this a bunch, and I know Marty and I we would talk about it all the time, but film is collaborative. And you're you know, the whole point of making a film and bringing all that talent together is to draw the best out of them and get them to contribute to the project, right? So if you're stifling that or if you're ignoring it, you're really doing you're well hurting yourself.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yeah. One one also one thing about that hierarchy issue, too, it's like, you know, going into this knowing, look, you guys wrote the script, you're directing it, you have a c you have a specific vision for the project. And so, you know, uh I've seen situations where somebody's been hired as a director or producer or whatever else, or or where, you know, on very small sets there isn't real a real hierarchy that's clear, or maybe the director or producer isn't very strong in their leadership skills. And so uh there ends up it the You know, you end up with a lot of creative arguments that come from places they have no business coming from, you know, like an actor arguing over a shot, um, which is not their purview to argue over. Um and uh you know or trying to direct from from the acting place. And uh and so also because that hierarchy has been well set and there's you know, and there's a respect build, um certainly there were a few times where there'd be an edit decision or uh take decision or uh some other decision that I was just like, I d simply don't agree with that. I don't think that's going to play well. And you know what? Other capable people have a creative vision that I can't see because I'm not looking at this from the same perspective. So okay. And and that's uh, you know, so it's not something that that I stew on afterwards because again, generally speaking, the result is in what's all put together. And and uh, you know, so just knowing having worked with you guys before, I know that there's not a lot of stones left unturned. So even if I disagree with something in that moment, um I also know from experience that you typically have actually thought this through. And the reason perhaps that I'm disagreeing it is either I'm just a different artist, which is absolutely valid, but it's not but you know, but it's not my script. Um or uh you know, or that I don't see the same picture that you see because, you know, you started writing the words. And I'm reading that.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

It's the great thing about working with a lot of the same people over and over again is because we've developed a level of trust with them and it goes back to what you're saying about you can realize, like, oh, I trust that they know what they're doing and they have the vision that serves the film in mind as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

So yeah. And you know, even and even if the rare occasion happens where it doesn't all quite work, and maybe, you know, maybe you've you saw it coming, um, welcome to film. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. Yeah, no, and uh, you know, and that's the other thing also, like one of the tough things that I think for anyone who isn't familiar with making film, and especially making film on a lower budget level, is that and it's true also on a higher budget level, I should add, uh, you know, is that true there are times where you as a creator you have to pick your battles, and there's times where you go, Yes, I'm aware of that flaw, and we're moving on because we're out of time, we're out of money, we you know, we have these other circumstances to consider, and somebody might complain about that, but they don't know that you have 10 more minutes on that set, period.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Movies aren't finished, they escape.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Yeah, or yeah, really, or whatever the case might be. Uh, you know, uh, there's often I mean, another whole aspect that some people don't realize is that as a director and a producer, there are things you have to keep confidential about your cast and your crew for for their emotional safety and and and other reasons. And so, you know, somebody may complain about something and you simply cannot explain why you're doing what you're doing. And that's so again, when there's a level of trust, you know, you don't you don't have to tell me that. I I there's a reason. That's all I need to know.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

It reminds me of um, you know, in in revenge, we had uh God, I I I I I have to go through and count it, but I there's over 20 slaps in that movie. Oh easily. I mean, I'm I'm and I'm talking full-on facial slaps. Poor Nate. Poor Nate. And there's that one, we've it's a great out take, but there's that one scene where you're you're smacking him over and over again, and I'm just like, hit him again. And he's just standing there with his cheek out, like, go ahead, dude. And he keeps telling me, you know, go ahead, keep going. And then at one point he looks at me and he goes, at one point you're not kidding. And I I think my response was hit him again. Um we got the take, and uh, you know, he he trusted us and he understood what we were doing. He he knew we weren't up there just having you smack him because it was fun. Well, it was that without some reason, it's one it was hilarious, but we weren't doing it to you know to ridicule him or to make arguments. We needed that perfect slap.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

And here's a secret about that too, for just for for me, you know. So again, I'm not a fight choreographer. Um, and you know, when I work with a fight choreographer, I follow their instructions to the letter because they know what's gonna look good, they know what's gonna sell, and they know what's gonna be safe. Um and there are times though, where you actually have to slap someone to slap someone. And hopefully they hopefully they roll with it and you've timed it right, and it's not gonna be a hard slap, but every once in a while there's an error. And, you know, now now add to this that I spent many years studying as a martial artist. So if I really slap someone, I can slap very, very, very, very hard and very fast. And so there's a little piece of me in in the back that's always going, if I'm connecting here, you know, and and this is actually an area that I have trouble with as an actor because, you know, you have to let go and play the scene so that it seems real. And on the other hand, there's this little thing in the back of my head going, don't kill him. Don't kill him. Don't let full don't put your hip into this, don't go full force, don't do all the stuff that would do a really solid hit. Um and and so sometimes that plays with your head a little bit, and you can't, you know, it gets it's really hard. That's one of the hardest things for me to do as an actor is actually strike someone and make it look real with and pull it. Um, you know, uh and and I and I usually get there, and uh, but you know, there's just that worry that you slip and do it right, not wrong, you know.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

The ironic part is you were the one who actually got uh hurt doing the slap scene because you fell and you missed the uh safety. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

And we got right back up and did another take.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Well, yeah, and I and and uh and I did fall wrong too, and so I was I was in pain. Um, but you know, that's what you do, right? It's uh if if you're still if you're as an actor, if you're capable of continuing, you continue. Right. Um, you know, and uh unless you know it's like something that seriously needs to be looked at right away medically. But I I've also, you know, uh as someone I've I have done some, you know I've I obviously I've done fight scenes and there and there have been accidents occasionally and I've gotten hurt. And of course again as a longtime martial artist, I have a pretty good gauge as as to what's a bad hit. And so, you know, I knew I knew from that moment, hmm, that's gonna smart and I'm gonna need ice. And I can wait a few minutes. Okay, let's get this done.

SPEAKER_03 50:31

Yep, we all take our lumps. Yeah, oh yeah, oh dude. Um so Eric, I just out of curiosity, I don't think I ever asked you this before, but um, you know, in writing frenzy, you're you know, you're John is he meets Jen, right? The beginning of the relationship. And we we kind of hint towards the strange things that you two are going to be into later with the whipped cream that's you know to me.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

I didn't see that coming at all, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Well, and Marty and I, as you know, I I've got to be honest. I mean, Marty and I took that and then cranked it up to 11 and put it in a script. And I've I've just always been curious, and I don't think I've I don't think you know, we we don't get to talk a lot about this type of stuff when we're on set because we're just so busy. But I you know, I'm just really curious what your thought path process was when you got those those two degrees, you know, the first one and then the second one. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

Well, okay, so first off, inside info here. Um after, especially after working on John the Alien interviews, uh Cliff, in particular, audience, um, has a thing. And that thing is that when we work together, he likes to he likes to write something that he knows I'm really going to be uncomfortable with, but that as a performer, I will find so good that I have to that I personally have to agree to do anyway, or I can't do with myself. And come on, Cliff, you particularly like torturing me. Let's get real. And don't get me wrong, I appreciate that about you. I i it in in context, you know. I know what I mean. You're actually coming from a good place with it. Oh, God, yes. I know that. I know that's beyond a shadow of a doubt. I know you're coming from a good place with it.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

It's like it's like Lyndon having to eat pickle relish, you know, an apple pie.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Yes. Which he, you know, got really like, you know, sick to his stomach over afterwards. And he was so glad he did it.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Um at the same time, I knew it was gonna be hilarious to play.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

Who played John and John the Alien interviews, a dear friend and a wonderful performer. Uh but uh so yeah, so basically, you know, uh so I got the script for um for Revenge of Zoe, and it has all these scenes where John and Jen are basically cosplaying in their sex life and uh exploring themselves. Yeah, and it's just well it's how they it's how they do it, you know, and it's how they enjoy themselves together. And it seemed uh, you know, at first it was like, boy, that actually really clarifies something about John, because he's really uptight most of the time. And it's like at home with Jen, he's a different he's a little bit different. You know, he he could he actually you know with with this person who he trusts in this way, he he's he's he's freer, yeah. You know, he doesn't have to be the boss, he doesn't have to be the guy who's keeping it all together as Pete's causing chaos, right? And uh and so uh and also there's this layer of trust between he and Jen, uh which is which uh um you know uh Sarah Jackson who played uh um who played Jen in the in the second two films did a just a wonderful job, a wonderful on-screen chemistry, uh just uh really great to work with her. So um, you know, so there's so that was my first thought, and then I got to the mermaid scene. And the mermaid scene, you know, we're on a mermaid costume, and my first thought was Cliff, fuck.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

You're you're messing with me again. It's it's a mermaid suit from the waist down. So he's got he's got a he's got a mermaid outfit on that's got the it's you know made out of um what is that, like uh rhinestones, not rhinestones, but it's a it was just shiny fabric basically put into a fishtail type thing, you know. Yeah, a fish tail and then he's got a seashell bra on.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

And a don't forget the seashell brown and seashell tiara. Yes. Um yes. And uh and oh, and and it was cuffed to the bed. And you're handcuffed. While Jen is on top of John in a pirate outfit. So um, you know, that was so my first thought was cliff, cliff, cliff. And my second thought was, oh my god, this is funny. There's no way I can't do this. So I was very nervous about shooting the scene. I was really nervous about it. And I was nervous about what people would think about it, but ultimately it was, you know, and what it would do to my image and all that, you know, actor, you know, branding stuff. But at the end of the day, you know, every time I have been in a place where that film was screening, that is the one scene that people laugh the hardest and the longest at, and which is score, you know. So once again, it was like I mean, I'd like to think despite the fact that, you know, Cliff does has this slight have this slightly sadistic thing with me going on that he likes to torture me. And and you know, as my wife says, I react so well. Um that's why she does it. Um but you know, uh but but there's also you know, but ultimately I think I'd also like to think that part of this is because you know that I'll see the comedy in it, I'll know it has to be done, and that I'll appreciate that uh for what it is because ultimately, again, I serve the film, I serve the project. And my goal with a comedy, I mean, with with a comedy like this, my goal is, you know, my my artistic goal overall is one to give the audience an experience that they will walk away from feeling really uh love, feeling love for the characters in the story. Um feeling like they've like they've been uplifted through it. And the other part is I want them to laugh hard. And so if that means a mermaid outfit, let's get the fishtail, man. Yeah, gotta be fearless. Gotta be fearless. One of the best actors I've ever worked with, um uh um who oh my god, his name's escaping me right now, which is awful. Um, but a wonderful uh actor I've worked with in California. Oh my gosh, I hate when that happens. Um uh but uh you know, once said to me, I hate when that happens, but one, you know, once said to me that uh if you want to be a good actor, you have to have no shame. And that's what goes through my mind in that thought process when I get the next mermaid costume is you know, okay, I gotta do this. Well, wait a minute, as an actor I have to have no shame. And this is actually it is important. It is important as an actor, I think, both as a you know, overall in your growth as an actor and spiritually as a performer, is that you've got to continuously remind yourself you are not that person. That's really what acting is, is to become someone else. And what is real for that person is real for that person, not what's real for you. So, you know, certainly you have to have boundaries and you know, and they're and that's that is important, and everyone has to be in agreement about what is going to happen on a scene, particularly when there's, you know, a bed and people on top of each other involved. That's extremely important. And when there's fight scenes or anything dangerous, all that stuff, you've got to really make sure everyone's on the same page and okay with it and not being coerced. Um that being said, you know, once you're past all that, you commit to the moment, you do it the right way, you are careful and thoughtful in the process, but but what the the audience needs to see something real. And because again, if you know, if I if I was letting my any of my re my personal reservations come out and I wasn't letting go in that moment and just being John, it wouldn't have been funny. It would have just been a guy in a mermaid suit, not a guy freaking out in a mermaid suit. That's what's funny, you know. Yeah, a guy in a mermaid suit is obviously Uptight John in a mermaid suit. That's funny, you know. And and I should add, you know, Uptight John in a mermaid suit is a lot less funny without, you know, without um uh casual Jen in a pirate suit taunting him. Um making fun of him. Yeah, I mean some wonderful bits.

SPEAKER_03 58:09

I had a big argument with um, you know, of course we had that documentary crew following us around for that film. And um and listeners, it's the documentary's not coming out, it didn't didn't happen. But they followed us around quite a bit here and there. And and I remember that night that we shot that scene, um, you know, Jens uh Sarah put it playing Jens got some, I mean not risque, but there's enough skin revealed and kissing going on that I I've never shot that stuff before. So I was kind of uncomfortable trying to figure it out. And I wanted to talk to her and say, you know, where's your level of comfort here? Right? Like how what I just let's let's get on the same page. And I remember the documentary crew being adamant that they'd be involved in that conversation and that they'd be in the room when it happened. And I said, you know, absolutely not. You're gonna be out of the room while she and I align with where our comfort levels are. I don't I don't want that on camera.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Um That's a tricky situation. That's it, I didn't know that part. And that's a tricky situation because on the one hand, you know, you it's documentary crew, they want to get real stuff. They're looking for good meat for a documentary that people will enjoy. And on the other hand, we're also very protective of everyone, too. Oh, I know it. And and that's and I have to say that as aside from my teasing you about, you know, your sadistic haunting of me, um, I I I actually really respect that about about both of you guys. And in in particular, Cliff, uh, you know, when when you feel that someone on uh uh particularly in your cast uh could have possibly been mistreated by someone that's like the hammer of God. It's just gonna bam. You know, and and I and and that's uh that's a good that's a good thing. You know, it's uh we all have heard stories and I've experienced some stuff, you know, everyone has uh where where there's also directors who are so committed purely to what goes on screen that they leave a lot of um you know damage in their wake with with the artists they're working with. And I do think that as a as a director and a producer myself, um one of the things that I particularly respect about uh your process is that you know, uh when I when I am producing and directing, again, I don't always get it right. I try really hard. I try really hard with everything to get it right. But my goal, aside from making sure that the project is at its best, is I I have to I understand that as if I'm in a leadership position, part of my job is to look out for everybody else and try to make them okay too, so that they can give their best and they walk away as unscathed as possible. And uh so I, you know, uh when I hear some of some of the some of the worst stories, I haven't been involved in anything truly awful, fortunately, um, but when I hear some of the worst stories about performers who've just gone through hell and like were emotionally scarred for life because of something a director had them do and the way that it was done, um I just that's unconscionable to me. It's entirely unconscionable. And and so I've seen you I've seen you, you know, generally speaking, the people that are brought onto sets as well are pretty decent people, so it's very rare, but I've seen a couple occasions where you thought that somebody was possibly being um you know spoken to the wrong way or something and just, you know, hey, stop everything, knock it off. We're come here, we're gonna talk. And that's and that's a cliff impersonation. Except they use less cussing.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

Yes, yeah, I was gonna say you need more vulgarity.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Yeah, we tend to uh be fairly serious and get our job done on on set, but we also like to have a lot of fun. I think that's what what brings people back time and time again. They hear we're making another project and they're like, hey, I want to be there. When are you doing it? So Eric, what were some of your like favorite moments on the set with us?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Oh gosh. I know that's a big one.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Yeah, just pick pick one or two.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

We don't we don't have all day here, buddy.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

I I know you love us. I know you love us.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Yeah, yeah. True. That's well, I I mean, okay, I'll uh so one thing it turned into a favorite moment in in the uh in in uh in the film as well, but I'll start with on uh um writing frenzy. Um so Julie's character, Sarah, is uh, you know, there's a scene where a guy um, you know, kind of tries to make the moves on her in the comic book store, and she grabs a valuable comic book and beats the crap out of him with it and then hands it to John. And we played that a number of times, and I just remember as an actor that was a lovely moment where, you know, I I I watched that occur and then she hands me the comic book. I have this visceral beaten-up comic book in my hand, and we had a moment together, and that was a that was a that was a really nice moment. Of course, you know, all of getting to know folks on the set moments and the other um times there. Um Revenge of Zoe, let me uh let me see if I can come up with a one out of so many. Well, you know, ultimately I think it really was yeah, I mean it was the whole shoot, but I think it really was um for me the probably the best moment was actually uh overall executing that that mermaid scene. Um because it was so bloody absurd and yet there was uh um you know, but it but it was uh um it was a it was a good crew basically operating together well. And uh and then it was um as an actor moment. Again, it's a lot of these are people moments and and you know uh it was a compromising, tricky position for both of us as as actors, and yet you know it was it was it was just another really nice moment of just pure professionalism where it worked very well and there was no Yeah, that night that night really went well.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

It was I mean overall. It was it was a lot to shoot and there was a god, I think there were six people in that room, seven people in that room while you guys were doing that scene. A lot of people in that it was a tiny bedroom with a big big bed, and it was but it was uh I remember it being also being a lot of fun. Like it was it was tough to shoot, but we got it done and it was actually a lot of fun, a lot of laughing during that shoot.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

There was, there was, and uh so that was that was really those were some nice moments there and some nice character moments uh which were especially uh good for for me, just you know, just uh um because you know to do c a scene like that, I mean I I hardly I don't I d you know I'm I'm not close with Sarah or anything and I d and I didn't I hardly knew her at all at the time, but just the chemistry that we had in those moments as actors was ro rock solid. It really worked and it felt good and it felt, you know, not awkward once we started working. Um and uh um let's see, I'm trying I mean there's just so many. I think yeah, I certainly the moment where we did the uh uh where Bradford, wonderful Bradford Trojan, um is tossed out of the um the the the bar and towards the beginning of the film. And there was so much swept that you know we didn't there was no proper budget to bring on a a a true stunt coordinator and uh but you know but a lot of thought went into making that safe and a lot of research and and you know consulting people and uh and it and it and I might add that uh I called in a favor from my from Rob Linden, who's an expert fight choreographer and stunt guy, and he and that helped, and then we all kind of worked together and came up with pieces, and so all of this sweat for weeks of trying to figure out how to do that safely and well, and uh and Jeff Notkin, of course, you know, working on getting the newspaper to fly out of the out of the uh trash bags in just exactly the right way. And one take, one take, Bradford, you know, and all the you know, of course the work prepping him for the fall because he had to do it, and one take, he lands perfectly safely. The newspapers fly up in the air, and it's a perfect shot. That was a wonderful moment. Absolutely perfect shot, and it's funny as hell. Um so that was a great moment. Um uh I'm trying to I mean I I and I have to say also, unfortunately, Charlie's comics no longer exists, uh, but uh Charlie was so wonderful to us and and just the the moments of being in a real live comic book store in between shots, um both on writing frenzy and on uh on revenge and in particular on revenge because you know I bought some stuff in in between takes. Um but but just you know when you know when when you're uh you're in the middle of the real thing and you're actually in the live environment it was it was quite an interesting process and I think it helped me stay in character. Um and then uh God on on Love Song um geez I mean uh you know again a lot of the a lot of the a lot of the best moments were also the hardest. I was not in great shape um when we were shooting the weird costume scenes um for uh for Love Song. Basically I just managed to be an idiot and get myself really dehydrated. Um nothing else was particularly wrong. And also we were you know the pan the the um uh COVID nineteen pandemic was really just kind of becoming something we were aware of. Yeah that was that would be my follow-up question was how you felt about that very frightening at and uh so between those two things and managing to get extremely dehydrated which you know put me in really danger but we had one day to shoot all this stuff um it was what I found to be profound about that. So now I'm again working with uh with Sarah and you know and we really hadn't talked since uh since Revenge but the there goes that chemistry as performers again. And I was n I mean I was dizzy. I was pale as a ghost I was I was not doing well um hydrating as much as I could once I realized I'd gotten dehydrated. And it doesn't show in the performance yeah exactly you know the camera's role and these are this is these are the moments as an actor that you really remember is like the camera's role nothing else exists. You're just it's John and Jen. And then occasionally some some buzzing thing says hey look over there a little bit and you go you step out of the role for just a second to take the direction you check in make sure you're technically doing things right and then it's John and Jen again. And that's what came out on screen and yeah the audience I believe will never know if they didn't hear this that that I was pretty much afraid I was just going to drop. But as soon as John and Jen happened I didn't even feel it you know um and I've had other experiences like that as an actor where I was in awful shape for one reason or another and when I'm working with the right people it just all goes away while you're performing and you you're like you're in a completely different dimension. And that was really lovely. Um the other I have to say that I had my other I mean I had some wonderful moments with with Bradford. I had some uh you know it was uh uh I have a lot of friends on the set Olivia's a a great friend and it was wonderful to see her again even though I didn't get a lot of time to work with her. Um and uh you know but but the because because uh Nate and I have played these characters in three films over a period of years um the moments I'm not gonna spoil towards the end of the film that we shot, much of which were actually shot in between waves of the pandemic a year and a half later, a little year and a half after the other stuff was shot, um were we had some really profound moments as the characters um that were the result of the personal relationship that's been built over time and a result of our mutual growth into these characters. And I think that will I think that'll I I think it carries through on screen and but I have to say that it was you know really just they were profound moments for me as a performer as and as a person. The other stuff I gotta say out of out of love song though I just I gotta give props to uh you know so so I mean we had some amazing performers and I wasn't there for much of it because of the way that the shoot had to be organized in the pandemic and all those other things. But the comic book store stuff that we ended up shooting where Jeff Notkenra who's also our art director designed the comic book store and made it look and feel just like a real comic book store so much so that you would forget. And uh I mean it's someplace I'd want to shop and uh just I mean aside from the employees that never go in that store with those employees. Not me either you know uh Jeff and Gia amazing job playing playing um the most annoying yeah most annoying comic book store ever known um beautiful job such funny stuff I mean if you watch the film and you don't laugh at that uh check to make sure you have a pulse um but uh um uh so there were some really amazing stu amazing comedy scenes being done right there with people I'd worked with before and have a terrific friendship and rapport with and and then uh gosh man you know the opportunity to shoot for three days at a live science fiction convention one of which one which I has has meant a lot to me over the years the Tuscon Science Fiction Convention and the way that you know the small production crew was allowed to come into this convention and about 200 fans signed up to be a part of our film and uh and you know and all the guests wanted to be part of the film and we got to you know just basically kind of ride on the side of this whole convention and and the just the joy that people took in working with us on that film in the middle of a live convention which you know if there are two places where I'm happiest in a public setting it's a it's a a nerd convention or a film set. And I was in both. How cool is that you know I wasn't in a film set that that was a film set of a nerd convention I was in a live operating film nerd nerd convention and a film set at the same time with a lot of people I cared about. That was cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

That was that was a Marty and I talked a lot about that. That was risky I could have gone very wrong. Well not just filming the Tuscon but I mean we have some hard and fast rules for shooting movies, right? We don't we don't allow our actors to leave sets during shoots. You are to stay on set at all times because if we leave bad things happen and I are thinking about the same thing. Protect it when you're here.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

Yeah we have we you know another rule would be um oh gosh there's so many of them already help me out but I I think you're saying like uh don't break the shoot up over several months of breaks in between you know it all in its a year and a half it was different two and a half years it was two years two and a half we shot we shot Tuscon first before we shot anything else about Tuscon just before just before anyone heard about the pandemic.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:41

Yep and that was six months before the pandemic and then the pandemic I mean I'm flying in in March of 20 yeah march march of twenty nineteen and oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:51

And we finished in June of uh 21 so it's a it's and and and you watch the movie and you really can't I I don't even notice anymore what's what I couldn't tell you what scenes were shot when it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:04

Yeah yeah well let's talk briefly about the elephant in the room I know we've been avoiding it a lot but we we have to talk about oh sorry uh there's an elephant in my room I Jeff Notkin I don't know how do you do that come on the man the myth you know our fourth producer not get in the shotgun in the shotgun this guy came aboard uh through through Eric through uh during Revenge of Zoe and wow we have totally clicked as a four-person team since then yeah yeah really it's it's really astounding Jeff is uh an immensely multi-talented uh person and uh one of my closest friends in the world and uh we'd become quite fast friends uh and had worked together on things by the time uh that uh Revenge of Zoe was happening and uh and you know we were at the point where we were starting to invite each other into our projects um even if it was just you know like hey you want to do a quick thing on this sure let's do it for you sure um or uh I mean you know uh I'd been I directed him he'd hired me to do things we'd uh I'd hired him to do things we've collaborated on things um we actually met at the Tuscon science fiction convention which is you know uh in fact um and uh um really really hit it off fast there so at that point uh and Jeff you know for anyone who doesn't know and you should you know he's uh uh he's uh I guess you could call him a science celebrity he uh spent uh three uh seasons as uh one of the hosts of the two hosts of Meteorite men on Discovery Network um former president of the uh National Space Society published author uh on and on and on he's he's a highly accomplished person and uh definitely thank you for bringing a Marshall wow it it is it's it was the game changer I mean the three of us we had already you know you could feel the switch but when Jeff clicked in it was like the oh we got the band now you know yeah and and it was you know and I didn't know that it was going to be that what happened was basically you know I I reached out to Jeff and said hey I'm in this film it's with people I know and have worked well with over the years and it's nerd stuff and you're a big nerd I mean you know you you used to create comics. Um uh side note uh he was on the team that created the um Pulitzer Prize winning comic book Mouse I mean that's like comic legendary right there um so he uh anyway I said you know hey would you like to do a cameo I'm sure the guys would be okay with that and we've got some rules that are open. Quick scene, you know, a couple lines you're on and off it'll be fun. He said yeah I do that sure I'd do that for you Eric sure you know and I and I told him a little bit more about the project. Oh comic book okay yeah I'm this is this is interesting. So he decided he was gonna, you know he even we were doing the cast and crew read at the comic book store on the set and uh he said uh you know that he'd uh like to come in and observe the cast and crew read and do his two lines and he did it and then afterwards he pulled me into the parking lot and uh said hey um do you think Marty and Cliff would let me come on board as a producer because I really need to be involved in this. This is an amazing script and that cast is awesome. And I said I don't think they'd say no to that but I mean if you're sure I mean I really don't want to you know I don't want to insert myself where I'm not welcome. I said I'm pretty sure they'd be happy to have you but let's talk to them and you know the rest is history became the art director he became the music director um and uh of course as we got into Love Song took an even more uh expanded role and just nailed every bit of it I mean he took he I mean the reason that we have that great soundtrack is completely is I mean that's completely him if he hadn't been there we that soundtrack wouldn't be there he he had every contact and every he knew I mean good lord that much a lot of also some of many of our guest stars and a lot of our uh a lot of our um uh placements of of things like comic books and so on came from his his his network of friends and and colleagues but honestly I my personal opinion I think his two greatest contributions to the project aside from just all of the camaraderie that we've had which is a very important thing the music is incredible yeah and and I and I have to say an audiences haven't seen this yet but Adam is so unbelievably funny. I mean as a character I find him far more interesting than John I find him far more I mean you know the dynamic that that happened with him with he and Gia and I and the and our various guest cast in the comic book store scene is just so unbelievably funny and so engaging that uh just that with all of the other incredibly significant creative contributions and business contributions he's made to these projects I actually hold those two in about equal level. Right. That's my opinion as a perfor as a performer and someone who's been around the block a couple times I re I mean I really think audiences are going to love Adam and Tanya more than anything else in the film to be quite honest. And there's a lot to love in this film, don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:07

Yeah I can't wait for him to see it soon soon either soon enough. So we have uh just a handful of more questions for you uh today.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:16

Uh how big is the hand?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:17

Well you know it depends on where you're standing in the I'm in producer mode. So a few of them are more uh directly film related and we're gonna spread out a little bit more I I think the a good next one would be uh what what's the best piece of of uh direction you've ever gotten on set from a director is is that the right phrasing of the question there Cliff Yeah I think so like what's the best you know yeah what's the best um you know piece of direction or uh you know what best best advice you ever got from a director or best you know direction basically gosh that's so hard that's so it's it's hard to pick one thing um however I I will there's a moment that stands out um because it was particularly transformative for me although I could go down a long list um but if I've got to pick one my mind keeps racing back to this I was doing a theater show um quite some time ago and I and it was a murder mystery in a small theater and uh a wonderful fellow named Doug Mitchell was directing uh who's also a fairly uh you know quite a quite an experienced actor and it was one of those moments where I'd worked the character and work the character and work the character.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:29

I just couldn't find him. I just couldn't find him. I'm on you know we we're we're running in just like two, three days and I'm just not that guy and it's driving me nuts. I'm having trouble sleeping. I can't think straight. I need to find this guy and I can't find him and he's a tough guy. He's a womanizer he's a ha he's a an abusive asshole basically and and and just all of the different pieces of him were not meshing into what I believed was a believable character and the director agreed with me. Um and and he had this insight he kind of cocked his head to the side and he said to the stage manager hey get me a toothpick and the stage manager got him a toothpick he grabbed the toothpick and he said put it in your mouth and I put it in my mouth this never comes out of your mouth during the show. And suddenly it all came together just click. It was that one prop that helped me to figure out who this guy was in that exact instant and suddenly I had a performance that audiences they hated me as they should.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:28

He was a Was that because you had something to like focus and center yourself on or was it just the thing that sort of like that last puzzle piece that dropped in and made the picture?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:37

It was the last puzzle piece and it and it helped me to learn something which is that while you know the process of finding a character for me that who is so far away from you involves going through a list of tools which I'm very blessed to have been given by a lot of great teachers and by then personal experience after that and during that, you know, you go through a list of tools and you try to see what it what tool brings you to find this next level of understanding about the character. You go through your physicality, you go through your breathing, you go through you know your your your voice and your history and all these other things. And what I realized one thing that I hadn't been focused enough on was what something actually in the physical world. And so the next show that I did um I was I was doing another show at that same theater. I was one of the kind of regular leading actors uh at that theater for a while and um and I and I and it was another very different character from me and I said excuse me does this character have a hat? And they said yeah he has a hat. Can I have that right now first rehearsal? I need the hat. And I had the character right then that was it. I had the hat. So it so really what it is is that uh that's very interesting. Yeah so as an actor I learned that there are you each character has certain catalysts that take you further into the knowledge of who the person is but don't ignore as you're doing all your internal work which I do a lot of don't ignore the physical don't ignore the real world and don't ignore that people are tactile and they they like things and so how they relate to people is almost it is how they relate to things is not quite as important but is almost as important as how they relate to people interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:25

Do you have like a dream role or are you just more of a journeyman actor where you're you know just you you're looking for the challenge or is there something in specific you're looking for?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:34

Oh I certainly have dream roles and I have more than one you know that's the thing as as a performer I'm you know I my my scope is as big as I can manage and still be believable. So um I you know I have uh I have rarely I I really love romance films a lot and uh and what I love about them and I've done a fair number of those things on stage what I love about them from a creator standpoint is that you you you know if if it's a good script and you've got good performers working with you, there's a lot of raw emotion that can happen. There's a lot of really deep emotion and a lot of you know to to play a love relationship well on screen it's it's you gotta s you gotta dig deep and you've got to have at least a kind of on screen chemistry with another performer that where you're truly relating to each other which is you know a lot of the the the true good stuff in acting is a relationship between two characters. And uh and I hardly ever get those roles. Again I've you know even even now even now that I've played John a number of times typically you know what I'm cast as is usually some you know complete really oddball character or somebody who's you know kind of dangerous. And uh so that's I I that's always a dream role for me. Um and then um I you know I've I've played a superhero exactly once um and uh and it was in a short film when I was just getting making that transition from theater to film and it was a lot of fun but I'd really like to do that again and I'd like to do that you know in a in a more profound way um as a big nerd obviously um so you know I I play a lot of badass characters but it would be nice to you know nice to take a turn as a Batman type or something um uh you know it it's it's interesting that uh even though I play a lot of badasses I've hardly ever been in a role where I'm actually able to use the martial arts side of things um in the past here for future ideas so those are those are a couple of big big interests uh for me um and then you know aside from that uh it's hard to say well I okay there is one other one other thing that I rarely get to do which I have had a small amount of experience in musical theater um and enjoyed it um and um uh and so I'd I'd love to do like a sort of a musical thing at some point. I I I've certainly raised enjoying a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:08

Um so what's your what's your favorite uh film based on music or like a musical do you have one?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

I have I have a list actually um I I first off I was as a kid I was a huge my dad as part of my training used to take me to a a theater in uh Los Angeles where we lived that uh only played classic movies and uh I saw a lot of Gene Kelly movies and became a huge fan. Um and so I really really love American in Paris and I r and I really love Brigadoon. Um and I as an aside I very briefly met Gene Kelly um at one point um in in the Beverly Hills Public Library and got to have a quick chat with him. And that was pretty you know pretty cool for me. So I'm also a huge fan of uh St. Louis Blues um which is a it's an amazing film that oddly not many people know about and I think it's because of the time that it was made in um but it it was um it it was it was about a famous blues musician and the cast of players included Nat King Cole, Earth of Kitt, Cab Callaway I mean uh you know a a a laundry list of some of the most amazing blues and uh performers and and and jazz performers of the era and they're all over this film and there's a bunch of music scenes. Uh it's an incredible piece of work. I'll have to check that one out it's really worth a watch I mean you know there's legends on screen and and again it's like it's even hard to find information about it. Purple Rain. Oh yeah the end basically music video where Prince sings Purple Rain is just a gut punch. It's amazing. The Wizard amazing film. The Whiz yeah I I I'm a huge fan of that as a kid I mean Diana Ross and Michael Jackson doing musical scenes together come on that's insane.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:06

Um so uh uh those are a few of my favorites um and there's a big long list of others awesome well uh in conclusion for today we got one more big one for you here big one this is the this is the big one everybody's got you know everybody has secondary career interest and outside of film what's your other creative outlet or what would it be if you had time for another creative outlet?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:37

Um I I think it would be film. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:40

Film is your ultimate film?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:42

You know so back up anybody doing film Eric what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:46

Yeah like some people would would have been a painter or some people would have been a journalist or is there anything I I mean fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:52

I mean I guess uh um I mean first off martial arts is an art form and that's been a deep interest for really long time. So uh, you know, I don't um and it's a it's a personal adventure for me, uh a personal art. Um so there is that. Um if we're talking career-wise, however, um it's it's really all quite related. I mean, I've been a I'm just kind of a devout m media making nerd and I have been since as long as I can remember. Um, but I would say that one area that I have not really explored, and you know, I've I've I've got training and experience, but I'm not the best of the best. Um, you know, but it is actually uh music, singing. Um that's uh it is something that I have some some some joy for. And uh so that would be interesting to explore. Um, you know, it's uh there was a point where I questioned uh, you know, okay, if I'm going really hardcore on something, should I veer in this direction? And I dabbled with it a bit and then realized I I love this, um, but you know, uh but ultimately the art of acting and and and filmmaking is is the greater passion. Um so you know, again, if they meld, that would be cool. Um but uh aside from that, I mean, I I mean this is this is me. I'm a big I'm a big movie making media nerd and it and and uh I eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff. I it's my passion. It's my uh you know, and it's my calling. Right. Um I mean, uh other than ruling the world. I I could do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:28

Well that's that's probably why we click, why all of us click. We're all, you know, Jeff, you, me, we're all mildly obsessed with this stuff. Right. Mildly Yeah, mildly is putting it mildly. Mildly is putting it mildly. Well, I don't want people to worry about us.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:46

Well let them let them worry. It you know, we're we're we're artists. Uh we have to be slightly unhinged in order to uh in order to in order to get a better perspective on things and and and deliver that, you know. You you've you've got to be what others would consider slightly unhinged to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:05

Well, it was good talking to you today, Eric. I'm I'm looking forward to getting back on a set with you in the near future. Thanks for joining us on our podcast journey here.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:14

Yep, absolutely. Thanks for thanks for being on and and we appreciate you talking to us about everything. And and um it's like I said, it's nice to have some sort of um oral history about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:25

Yeah, no, it is. That's really it's cool and it's rare, and I appreciate I appreciate you guys doing this. And I'm uh and I I guess uh am I correct that I'm your inaugural interview?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:36

Maybe the first interview, we don't know if it's the first code released, but right.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:41

You're our game. You're the first one, yeah. You're the first woman that we've interviewed. We were uh I mean jeez, other than Julie, I mean you're the longevity. You're you're I mean Paul. What do they call what do they call that in college? You're the um legacy.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:57

Wow, that's something. Well I I'm honored, guys. Thank you. I I I appreciate you asking me on and I'm glad to be part of the oral history of this and I hope uh I hope that uh any who have been following the films and hopefully will, you know, and the new folks who come on board excuse me, will uh um I hope that any who are following the the the films and and any who come on board will uh um will appre will find interesting some of the behind the scenes talk and uh you know and and and maybe uh perhaps it'll it'll give a little more insight into just the deep passion that goes into these projects and uh because I think I I hope that that comes across on screen, that there's a there's a deep passion for um you know, for these characters, for these stories um and for this art form. And and I have to say that it's been my great joy to be part of the world of CBDs, part of the world of John Pete and their and their uh insane um adopted family. Um you know it's uh I've always uh and I've heard other people I've heard fans say this and I've said it myself, is like these are these are people who you really would want to hang out with. And uh and it's really beautiful to be part of making art that that makes people want to hang out with your characters.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:19

Fantastic. Um well, um if anybody is interested, you can see Eric in our movie, Revenge of Zoe, on Tubi Now. So go over there and check it out and uh see what Eric was talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:32

Yeah, and Eric, do you have anything you want to promote or plug here?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:36

Oh, sure. When when don't I? Um well uh you there's other films that I've uh that I've performed in or or produced or whatnot that you can find on mo on on various online networks. Uh uh, you know, um one of the more favorite ones is uh Tombstone Roshimon, directed by Alex Cox, in which I played Doc Holiday. That's both on Amazon and and Tubi and a few other networks. Um there's uh uh the new streaming series Horse Camp by Patrick Ball Media, um which was a lot of fun. Um uh you can of course look for Jean the Alien Interviews, Z-H-O-N. Um, and uh and generally um there's my uh my production company, Seeley Studios, that's S-E-E-L-I-E, which you can find at Sealestudios.com. There's some uh uh in addition to the the next in the Revenge of Zoe movie series, which uh which I can't wait for the release of, there's some other really exciting projects uh soon to come out um through uh through that um through through Seely Studios. And so uh you know, take a look there or you can go to Eric Schumacher Actor.com and uh I'm all over social media too. Glad to connect with people.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:44

Nice. And we should uh hopefully have links to all those in our show notes, make it easier for all the listeners.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:50

Yep. Check our show notes, you'll see links for Eric's stuff and how to get in contact with him. All right. Well, Eric, thanks so much for showing up for making pondo, buddy. We really appreciate it. Great pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:02

Did I did I actually did I say Eric Schumacheracting.com? You you said ericshoumacher.actor.com. Oh god, no, it's eric schumacherfilm.com. Eric Schumacherfilm.com. That was brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:14

You heard it here first.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:16

Heard it here first. Anyway, no, great pleasure to be here. Thank you so much, guys. And uh uh it's uh I'm glad to know you, I'm glad to work with you, and uh very pleased to be part of the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:26

Likewise. Yep, it's a pleasure, Eric. All right, guys. We'll see you later.