Making Pondo with David Lee Summers

 In this episode we talk with David Lee Summers. David played customer in Revenge of Zoe and also appeared in The Love Song of William H. Shaw.

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Heavy Metal Trailer

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The Museum of the Omniverse: Dragon Exhibit is live on Audible

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to season two of Making Pondo and Talking Pondo. Talking Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty give each other a film to watch and talk about them in detail. Some episodes will include a special guest. Making Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty talk to people they have worked with and discuss their experiences on set.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Today on Making Pondo, we talk with David Lee Summers, who appeared in two of our films.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Alright, we're back, Marty.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

We're back. It's another episode of uh Making Pondo. Making Pondo, where we talk to people we've made movies and things with, hence making, and we are Pondo, so making Pondo. Yes. I'm uh Marty Cotola. I'm Cliff Campbell. And who do we have with us? Today we have David Lee Summers.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Woo!

SPEAKER_02 0:55

He is uh David. Yeah, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

I'm glad to be here. Yeah, David worked with us on Revenge of Zoe and uh Love Song of William H. Shaw. He's a renowned sci-fi author. That's how we met him originally, right? How did we come across you? It was because of Eric, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:17

It was through Eric Schumacher. And uh yeah, he uh told me about that he had been uh he was in a a movie coming up called Revenge of Zoe, and uh pointed me to the the Indiegogo campaign that was running to to fund the movie at the time. And so I I checked it out, said, Oh, look, it's a movie about superheroes and comic books and writers and all the things I I absolutely love. So I uh I decided to jump on board. I put in a little bit of funding, and uh then, you know, whatever amount of time later it was, uh Eric came along and then asked me if I wanted to come and do a walk-on on uh on the movie itself uh when you were shooting at the comic book store. And so I came in and did a day there. And that's when I actually got to meet you two in person.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, that was um when was that, Marty? Was that early in the shoot? I want to say that was I want to say that was first week. I think I think it might have been, yeah. Yeah, I want to say it was first week. So we were still getting our feet under us a little bit, and and uh I remember I remember it being a lot of fun to shoot, but I also remember trying to figure the blocking out and trying to put you in it to where because we kind of wanted you in the background as things were going on, and then for you to sort of come in and do your line, and then you know, because your whole thing is about seeing three men hugging and being uncomfortable and you know slapping some money on the table and running out of the store, right? So exactly which uh you know, good good on you being a good sport to play that role. It's not uh not always the little it's kind of a weird role, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:54

But it was but it but when I saw it in in the final film, you know, not to not to put too much of a spoiler in it, but it's a great setup for something that happens later in the film. So true, yeah, it's true.

unknown 3:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Yeah, that was kind of uh not only is it an awkward scene, it was awkward to film because we were trying to match the two different sides of the stores together to make it look like you were shopping on the other end of the store while the three guys were tormenting Owen on the other end and then have them kind of connect. We went through a bunch of different edits on that until we finally found the sweet spot where it looks like everybody's interacting with each other.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, and I think I I remember I thought I think the key was actually, which unfort unfortunately for your part, but I think the key was actually removing a bit of him. He was there was just too much where it was like, oh, if we just pair some back, oh there you go, it works. Oh, like we were trying to put all the walking in the back. Yeah, we were trying to put all of the walking in all the footage we had shot of him in because again, he's an author, he's you know, we want him in the movie, he's a cameo and all this, but then we were like, you know, we're just gonna have to we're actually gonna have to take some of that out, and then then it then it finally worked.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

And so the whole yeah, when I saw the film, I was surprised I'd forgotten about filming the bit where I walked in, and and you do see me back in the back looking at the books and um on the rack. But uh yeah, there was more of that in the film than I I almost remembered filming because I do know we filmed a bunch of stuff around that, but uh you know, I I wasn't sure how much of that would really be visible and and all of that, and I was I was really pleased to see that it actually was pretty visible in the film, so that was neat.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

And you um and you popped up later in the second one, uh in in in Love Song, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:46

It's a it's a pretty brief cameo. It's pretty much as as uh um the two guys are are chasing through the uh dealer's room as as uh Eric and Nathan are are chasing each other, and um you know a copy of one of my books gets grabbed and tossed at the other.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

I think there was a real onset injury uh at the time that uh from yeah he yeah, well we we ran uh we ran a camera directly into Nate's forehead. I think right in front of you. I want to say right in front of your table.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

And Nate demanded we put up the grooper reel, so it's and then in addition to my my very brief cameo in the film, uh my uh my car appears in in Love Song, uh minus the smart car that appears briefly, and then uh I'm the giant bear being pulled out of it. The giant bear. And then my my child is in the scene where where they're doing the signing. So that's uh we have another now.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Is she is she the one that that says uh uh you know, is she the one that runs off?

SPEAKER_04 5:54

Or is it the other one? That was that was her partner. That's her friend, right? Yeah, yeah, her friend. And uh but yeah, the uh but yeah, Verity's the one who sits there and and nods when Scott has, you know, I love this con. And and yeah, just the look on her face is is just great. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

She was yeah, she was really kind of perfect for that role. It was very easy to put her in that because it was just like, oh, she's it's either she's acted before or she's very comfortable in front of a camera, but simple, uh very simple to work with, and and uh we got exactly what we needed, so it was fantastic. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

And the uh book that gets picked up from your table and thrown is we later uh for for whatever reason we ended up keeping that copy because it was damaged, and then you see uh Christina's character actually reading that book later on in the movie for more product placement of your novel.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

I saw that and that was great. And I I believe the comic book I wrote actually appears on on one of the racks in one of the comic shops, too.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We and one of the things that I've realized that that Marty and I, uh that we are not very good at product placement. Like we're just we are not, you know, because you really in product place, you want you want to feature it in a way that's sort of it's there, but it's not obtrusive, you know, and it's not in your face. And for us, it's either so far in the background that you really can't catch it, or it's right in your face. And you know, it's it's it's uh it's a it's actually I feel like it's a technique or it's a skill. I I don't it's not one I have. Or I've got to work on it at least.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

Yeah, and I you know, I mean, I I think it's a skill that it's a tricky one in film in general, because I've seen, you know, I've seen things from the major studios where the product placement is either way too obvious or you really wonder, was there was there any, you know, you see people, you know, everyone has Pepsi or some product, you know, in every scene, but it's so subtle, you know, do you wonder, you know, was it was Starbucks sponsoring Game of Thrones? You know? Right.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Um the I remember one of the egregious ones from the eight late eighties was Total Recall, I think, was the one where it was just in your face product placement over and over again. It was wild. Um yeah. Anyway, it's a I think it's a it's it's a skill to kind of and and plus it it some of that stuff being indie guys, we we get it dropped in it dropped on us in the last minute where we're like, hey, we're gonna have a cameo of this person, we're gonna drop them in here, and it's like, oh shit, okay, well, let's figure that out. How are we gonna do that? We'll have them buy their own book. We'll have them buy their own book, that's what we'll do.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

God, we're smart. And an author, you know, authors always buy their own books.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I read that um who was it? It was somebody said uh it was Game Neil Gaiman and somebody else that they had a book signing, Terry Pratchett maybe, that they had a book signing in New York back when they weren't really well known, and they were the only nobody came to so they basically bought one of each other's books and signed them. So that they could at least have a signing, which I thought was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Yeah, I I've I've you know, I I've been there a few times and I I've certainly known that that kind of story uh from from other instances. So yeah, it it definitely happens. I mean, you know, the the the sort of film cliche of the of the long line of people out the door for the author pretty much only happens if you're you know, if you're JK Rowling or Ann Rice or you know, someone, Stephen King, someone of of that kind of caliber. And uh even then sometimes those guys, if you're at the if you catch them you know in the right audience where a lot of people know them, you don't always see um, you know, I've I've sat next to George R.R. Martin when he had like two or three people come up to him for an hour signing. And it was just that he was at a convention where everyone knew him, everyone had his sign books, so it was just pe you know the two or three people at the event who who hadn't met him before, so or hadn't gotten him to sign a particular book.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

It seemed like that with Lansdale, the year that we went. Yeah, was that the was that the one, was that 2019, the one with Joe Lansdale? But he's he had a table with he had a table with books, and he was just he was just kind of sitting there behind a table on his phone, nobody bugging him, nobody's there's not a line to get anything. So I bought a book from him and had it sign, but I didn't know. TestCon's pretty chill about that usually. Yeah, it was very chill.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

They're not like I I bought a book from him that year too, and it was like, you know, we got to sit and talk for maybe 15, 20 minutes or so, you know, yeah, with no one really coming up and and bugging us during the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

That's a nice thing about Tuscon too, is it's smaller like that, and I I kind of appreciate it because I I enjoy the big cons too, but your time's limited. Like one that me and Cliff go to every year, is that proper English? Me and Cliff, Cliff and I go to every call Mad Monster Party and Phoenix. It used to be kind of small and intimate, maybe about twice the size of Tusc of Tuscon. Now it's so huge that it's kind of getting to the point where sign your stuff, okay, thank you. Next, not quite to that, but you used to be able to at least have a good five-minute conversation with people or whatnot. So yeah, but I do appreciate the smaller cons. Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

Yeah, well, and I do a little mix of both, the larger ones and the smaller ones, but it always feels like I have the best interactions at the small cons. I can meet those those authors I like that I can work with, uh, and and have those kinds of meetings, and you know, I can I can really sit down and interact with the fans. Um just a really great time. So I really do like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Well, and so you're you're an you're an indie guy like us, so you know indie artists. I mean, that's you know the pain. I mean, you know, you know that you know how hard that stuff is, and you know, like you said, you sit for an hour, you know, maybe you don't sign anything, or you know, nobody buys anything, you know, you go to the con for the day, and you're like, oh okay, maybe that was a waste of time. All right, well, you know, that's a it's a it's a different thing. A lot of people don't understand that, like how how tough that is. Because it's not only like, okay, you've made it, you made your art, but now what are you gonna do with it? Right. How are you gonna get people to buy it? How are you gonna get people to be interested? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

Yeah, you don't have a marketing department, you don't have a big publisher's marketing department getting things out to all the bookstores, you know, any of that we do ourselves, you know, whether it's to bookstores, video, video streaming platforms, whatever whatever you want to talk about. Yep. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yeah, it's a it's uh it's a whole it's a weird thing, it's a whole different kind of grind because it's like, you know, I don't know, for me it's like I just want to make movies and be an artist, but then it's like, well, to make movies and be an artist, you have to be a businessman to a certain certain extent.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Oh, exactly. You have to you have to be able to fund your art. And and that's the thing is I um I am pleased that I've been able to get to a point where it's pretty much my my art pays for making more of the of the art. And that's fantastic. You know, and and you know, I make maybe just a little bit more beyond. I've been able to to fund some larger projects, be able to pay for some some you know bigger scale artwork, like I say, the comic book project, um, and I'm hoping to to get another one of those off the ground. And comic books are not a not a cheap business, you know, talking about, you know, since we're on a film talking, you know, that's about comic books and such, and you realize, yeah, it's I I know how much I pay for a cover, but you know, you think about every page in the comic book is is that much again, basically.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Comic books are not cheap. Uh uh, I mean, Jesus, we I mean, just getting posters made for our stuff is i it's expensive, not super expensive, but I mean, one poster is not, you know, I mean, if we paid that for every page of a comic book, you know, 28 pages, or how many pages are in a comic book now? Is it 22?

SPEAKER_04 14:01

Depends a little bit on the company and everything, but yeah, anywhere from eight to you know, fifty I've seen 48. Um, it's usually a multiple of eight, but uh yeah, it's uh but yeah, it's sort of 28 is kind of the industry standard, I think, these days for the big guys for Marvel DC.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah, yeah, but I mean I mean so I can't imagine yeah, 28 pages paying for the all the art on that. That's gonna get expensive real quick. Plus then you gotta print them all up, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yada yada yada, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:34

What we did for a lot of our props was uh Jeff or or someone else would just design a fake cover that we would then tape onto a pre-existing comic to make it look like there was a whole issue, but there was really just one piece of art. Sometimes we just do the top half of the book, so you just see the logo. So if you made a stack, it looked you know give the illusion like a like a wad of a hundred dollar bills that's really only got two of them on it or something. But most of filmmaking is magic tricks in a way. Yeah, we cheated that all the way through.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

We sure did, everywhere we could.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

Exactly. Yeah, you you kinda do what you have to do because it's uh yeah, getting things to to look right on film. You know, sometimes what looks right on film isn't the same as what looks right in in person, so very much so.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah, that's very true.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

It is funny that in the impetus of all this in the uh proof of concept version of the trilogy, a movie we made called Comic Book Diaries, uh, a former famous comic book artist has a failed signing in the store, and then he chokes on the pages of his book and then crazed rage, and that ends up being Nick Levine as becomes the ghost in the later movies. But then in the later movies, we actually pull in people like you who are actually established writers, and so this is kind of interesting how that all worked out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah, we had we had several other um a lot of the people that were in Revenge of Zoe that were basically just customers in the store were either comic book artists or some sort of art artist that Jeff knew or was you know a writer like you. Um so we tried to tried to place those people in there to make it to I don't know, make it a little more interesting.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Yeah, I tend to find myself watching uh watching Revenge of Zoe, and and when I was watching a love song, it's like looking at doing the who's who, you know, who do I recognize here? And of course, uh with Love Song, so much of that filmed at Tuscon. I I definitely just recognized a lot of the people from the convention. But uh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

It it got especially like the you get that one great scene where everybody's cheering for the big release of the new of the news uh uh frenzy movie. And I mean that's that's the cast of characters right there. When we cut to them all cheering, it's like, yep, there they are, one, two, three, you know.

unknown 16:59

It's hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

That's why the uh in the end credits of the movie Tuscon attendees is this giant paragraph of names that just fills the whole screen because we weren't positive who was on screen and who wasn't, but we knew everybody had signed the release, so we said, you know what? We're putting all the names on there. You're all gonna pays.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Reminds me of the wall of credits for Kevin's Kevin Smith's clerks too, the one he did the uh somebody one of the one of the movies he did where he he put everybody's name who did the Kickstarter.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Oh, right the other Kickstarter actors like a Lord of the Rings where the credits go for like 10 minutes of names.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Just wall of names, just wall of names anyway.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

Yeah, I've seen a few of those, and I I I've even seen some of the ones where they don't put everyone in and but they put in, you know, just people above a certain tier or something. And even those can kind of be the wall of ongoing names. And it's just you know incredible how many people, pretty much to get their name in that, you know, for that five seconds of of scroll across the screen.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yeah, it takes if you're uh well it's like that the they did we they did that with the what was it, Mystery Science Theater on the new season, right? They did all the back listed all the backwards and everybody in the credits, yeah, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

Yeah, I I did end up uh supporting that one as well, and uh, but but I was a low enough tier that I didn't get my name in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

I think I went, I think uh yeah, I think we the wife and I got our names in. I think that was the tier we went for.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Yeah, you're in uh the time travelers, I believe, and I am in Yongeri. Ah. Yeah, there you go. It it's like when you see uh movies nowadays, and there's like ten different company logos at the beginning of the movie, and it's it's just kind of a different example of how many different forces have to come together in order to make a film nowadays, because you know it ain't cheap, as they say, but you you know, you just need to pull more and more resources. And I've heard people be like, Why are there so many logos? And it's like, well, you know, because you gotta work with a lot of money to make a movie.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, it takes a lot of money to make a movie, especially if you want to make a big Hollywood movie when you're spending 50, 60 million dollars. You know, I mean it takes a lot. That's of course you're gonna have you know a bunch of something. Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, we have three, you know, our small film, yeah. Um questions. What do we uh let's see. We asked you about how how you met us, but how did you meet Eric? Out of curiosity.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

So I would have met Eric through Tuscon. So it was uh would have been just uh I think we we probably were on a panel together. I know I had seen him around, of course. He goes around Tuscan, he's got his uh he's got his fancy suit and hat and everything. And you know, it's pretty hard to miss him when he's going around there. Uh, but I think we ended up on a panel together and and we just ended up finding that we we really just kind of grooved and connected on on some things and uh have just kept up a friendship ever since then. And you know, we've I've been fortunate enough to work with him on a couple other projects also. Um we've also uh we we also did right around the same time that uh we were doing Revenge of Zoe, we did a a little book trailer for The Astronomer's Crypt, the book that that appears in in the film. And uh so I actually did the the screenplay for that, and uh Eric acts in it and and directed it and you know a little cinematic basically scene out of the book that we did.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

So interesting. Huh. Okay, well that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

I remember you guys working on that around then. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Eric's one of those guys he's a really good, he's like Jeff. He's a really good networker. He really's really good at he's you know, I'm I'm a very I don't know, I don't do small talk very well. Like I can talk about a subject I can talk a subject to death, but you know, I getting getting to the subject for me sometimes is the is the problem, right? You know what I mean? Like I just have trouble getting Eric and Jeff are both very good at that sort of easy pattern to kind of get the get the conversation going. You know, uh it's also nice to have them around those kind of social situations because they're they're very good at kind of you know social lubrication, right? You know, exactly, exactly. I I admire that. That's definitely a skill I don't have.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

I don't think I really have it much either. So I I I feel that same I I feel you in what you're saying, because I feel like I'm I'm the kind of guy who, you know, if if we have something to talk about, I'm I'm perfectly happy to leap into it and you know talk to you about it. But you know, if I'm if I'm just sort of sitting there uh you know, and two people are talking about something, unless it's it's a topic I know something about, I tend to be the kind of wallflower sitting there just listening. And of course, that's one of The things that writers do is we listen and we take in things and then that that comes back out on the paper.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

So yeah, no, that's very true. I have people watching and that type of thing. I think that's maybe part of it too, is I you know, I tend to be more of a people watcher, so I kind of would almost rather stand back and watch it happen than I would to interact with it at times. Because that again, like you said, observation.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

So I mean one of the questions is everybody has secondary career uh interests outside of film. What's your other creative outlet? Well, we know that you're not filmmaker primarily, but your your main thing is you're a writer, as we were just discussing, right? Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

So that that's my big that's my big creative side is is I'm a novelist and a short story writer. Uh recently just sold my 100th short short story. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. And uh 13 novels and two novellas and a handful of other odds and ends out there. So um yeah, that's that's my big creative side. I I've done some book editing as well, and uh I've also um and then I uh on top of that at night I operate telescopes over at the National Observatory in Tucson at Kit Peak. So that's my wow, that's one of the things that sort of pays for me to have the have the fun that I do. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Okay, yeah. Jeff, Jeff, we so we we've got a script concept and we were talking about possibly trying to ask you about maybe getting some access to Kit Peak to shoot around it or near it or something um sometime in the future, but who knows?

SPEAKER_04 23:40

Yeah, it is it is that one is a tricky one because they've had some uh um there are some issues with it because it's on on tribal land. And uh when when we were doing the even the astronomer's crypt trailer, which was just a small kind of you know very low-key kind of thing, people were very concerned about, you know, we're we're we have DoE on one of the sites I work at, and we have NASA on other sites I work at, and they they get a little picky about anything that's not filmed specifically for academics. You know, if it's if it's a PB, if you're a PBS or a National Geographic special or something like that, they'll they'll welcome you in with open arms. But um there even was a movie. Um, I I can't, it was one of these asteroid, you know, apocalyptic films filmed a number of years ago, and they filmed part of it. Uh, they got permission from Stewart Observatory to film at their site up on up inside the dome in one of the buildings there. But when they went outside, they actually had to cut away to a different observatory. So it's actually they used a different observatory for the external shots because uh again, it it it's part of the issue is that the um the Tohono Oatum uh nation is very picky about having um people film the land, the landscape, and and using it in films, and and that's uh it's a little bit of a taboo uh culturally to do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

So you learn learn all kinds of things by asking questions.

SPEAKER_04 25:19

So that might be, you know, the uh so it's one of those of I would be more than happy to ask uh when when you get to the time, but I I have a feeling there might be I I have a feeling I know the answer. That's all right. We'll go to Arecibo, it's fine. We'll just use it.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

Just kidding.

unknown 25:35

Just kidding.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

There's always there's always uh the VLA in Socoro where they filmed contact. I worked there too for a while.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

I was I was gonna ask about that actually, because I because the they do shoot in that big array, I that was kind of in the back of my mind was they do shoot in that big array for contact, where she's out there with the big array and everything. That's is that that's Socorro?

SPEAKER_04 25:56

That's outside of Socorro. And uh yeah, that's actually mostly ranch land out there, so it's uh it's kind of a different dynamic. Um most of the land surrounding it is are are ranchers, and then the government actually owns the land that the the tracks and the the uh dishes are on, so it's not quite the same thing where it's leased from leased from a Native American uh nation. And that one's still operating too? That's still operating. Um it's uh I think it's going through some management uh changes last I had heard, but yeah, it's still still it's the National Radio Astronomy Observatory and still over there. It's uh I have a friend of mine who's uh one of the who's I've had several friends because I went to school in Socorro who uh work over there.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

So does everybody in that field love the movie contact? I just have to ask.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

You know, I I think most people do, right? I think yeah, it's kind of near and dear to our heart, and those of us who are from around Socorro, of course, love it. And that in 2010, which uh also, you know, with Roy Scheider at the VLA, that was uh that was a big moment there. Neat. That's fantastic. And interestingly, it was when I was in grad school there was when I actually got my first uh my first actual film experience. I I was uh I got hired as an extra on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries while I was in grad school.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

That's great. Robert Stack, oh man. Yep, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

So I have footage of myself walking around in a hard hat and a suit being a securities and exchange commissioner, you know, with Robert Stack narrating everything.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

That's fantastic. Wow. That's so great. Well, see, now we know. No Kit Pete, but maybe Socorro, Marty, see? Oh, let's see. What else? Um so I this I yeah, this question's kind of not really it's one of the questions that we asked, but it's not really I don't know. Well well, actually no, it is because you were you worked with Unsolved Mysteries, you worked with us. So do you um did you get any direction from the director in Unsolved Mysteries? Was there any kind of interaction with the director? Um, what was that like? What kind of feedback did you get? You know, did you enjoy your experience? You know, do you join working with directors and that type of thing?

SPEAKER_04 28:29

Yeah, I mean I enjoyed my experience. Uh, you know, and even before that, I actually did some some musical theater, you know, on uh in college. That was kind of how I got the in with the unsolved mystery. Was my director for that saw the ad, the casting ad and called me up and said you should go down and and check this out. And so I went in. Now for for unsolved mysteries, because I was pretty much you know, background guy walking around, um, you know, the whole direction was basically stand here, do this, you know, do that. Right. And you know, like in the one scene where I really kind of got to do anything, it was more dial it back. So I mean it was it was it was okay. I mean, I you know, I got paid, you know, got paid uh my salary for doing it and got to see myself on on national TV afterwards. So I I have no complaints whatsoever about it, but it was you know, I didn't exactly learn a whole lot from that particular director. Um I I think you know that my my stage experience and and you know what what we did on uh uh on uh Revenge of Zoe, I think, you know, I kind of felt like I got a little bit more of that kind of you know lean in, you know, lean into the emotions a little bit, you know, lean into, you know, like on Zoe, lean into the awkwardness of the situation. You know, of course I'm feeling a little awkward because this isn't my my first career, so it was actually really kind of easy just to be like, I don't know what the heck I'm doing, you know, and just just use that as the energy that I use. So um, but I but again, you know, I've been you know, beyond that, even I've been doing some uh audio work with Eric and you know doing some uh doing some audio drama and some voiceover uh type work. Excuse me. And uh, you know, he's really again, it's that same sort of thing. It's kind of that lean into the lean into the role, you know, find the emotions, you know, and in voice acting, you there you really because can't no one can see what you're doing, you know, you really want to make sure that emotion's coming out in the voice and everything. And that's that's been very helpful because I actually have narrated a few of my own audiobooks uh before. And there those those editions are now down because the editions have been rewritten, but and I need to re-record them. But it it's advice I find would be very helpful were I to go back and and redo those. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, just remembering that yeah, people can't see you when when you're doing uh vocal work, so you really do have to make sure that that uh that comes out in the voice.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

So well and you've you know, I've you see those um behind the scenes of like the uh the Disney voiceover actors and stuff, and they they're very into their parts and they're very animated. And uh I mean a few of them will stand there just behind the mic and just do the voices, but usually if it's a big piece or a big part of the movie or something that's intense, they're usually acting that out or emoting it in some way to give them like you just said, to give that edge so that you you know it transfers.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

Right. And some of those those animation guys are just really incredible. I I got to earlier this year, I got to meet Scott Innes, who is both Scooby-Doo and Shaggy in uh some of the direct-to-video movies of the 90s, and he could just turn it on, turn turn those voices on and off, have have the two characters have dialogue with each other, you know, just just sitting, you know, he would just pop out of his voice and go into that. And you know, his his day job was that he was uh a DJ, uh, or he is still a DJ in Baton Rouge, but he he went over and you know, it was sort of his dream come true to actually get to be Scooby-Doo and Shaggy, and it was just fun to fun to watch him and and kind of compare notes from my little bit of voice acting to what he did. And I just I I think it'd be great fun to go, you know, do an voice for an animation or something. Yeah, I think that might be pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

It's funny. Uh Cliff and I just met uh another Shaggy just a few weeks ago, Matthew Lillard was at the end too. So he's also doing some of the cartoons as well, I've noticed. It's funny because Casey Kasum, the old school Shaggy, he was notorious DJ as well. So I guess all the audio medium. I often wonder in a different universe if Cliff and I had gone on the radio instead, you know. Instead of film, yeah.

unknown 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Well that's why I'm behind the camera. I have a face for radio.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

That's the funny thing about podcasts, is you know, I don't have to see it. You can chop it up.

SPEAKER_04 33:09

Exactly. I'm nodding because I definitely have the face for radio.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

So what's the what's the Gallifinakus jokes? My mother once told me that you have a face, you have a face for the closet or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

What else do we have already? Well, let's see here. Uh some of these are you know, I have to adapt the question a little bit. Uh well, you said you you you were doing some theater work before you got the unsolved mysteries.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

Yeah, it was I mean it was college theater sort of stuff, so it was you know university project. So I did like Brigadoon. I I was one of the background characters doing the singing and dancing and all of that. I I you know I was I was sort of super chorus. I had you know, I was Angus, who's actually one of the named characters who has like about five lines in the in the piece, and uh is that uh is that Rogers and Hammerstein, Brigadoon? That is uh Learner and Lowe. Okay, learner and low, okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Okay, light opera though, right.

SPEAKER_04 34:17

Yeah. And it was it was sort of I did actually have a part where where me and and one of the other actors were had a uh the singing role, but it was this this solo role that was you know, the music was just very, very difficult. It's in in the chase. I don't know how well you remember Brigadoon, but there's the whole bit where Harry Beaton is is the villain who's going to escape Brigadoon and and stick it in time, and everyone's trying to stop him, and you know, and I'm one of the people who's chasing after him to stop him. And you know, there's just this weird lilty musical bit that I had to do. And we, you know, my our director, even though we were at the small technical college in the middle of uh New Mexico, actually was a Broadway guy and really knew his stuff. And he, you know, we we kept trying to get it and get it and just couldn't get it. And basically what he had had me and the other guy do is he basically had us wrap the lines. So yeah, we did it as almost almost like a like a wrapped recitation, and it really just came out, uh really came out eerie and and fun and you know, worked for for that part. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

That kind of segues into one of Cliff's favorite questions, it which is what's do you have a favorite film based on music or musical?

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Which is a good uh uh I I saw the the question, the preview questions, and I it got me just going down all my films that I love the music for. I'm I'm you know, as a writer, I'm a soundtrack collector, because that's what I do when I need to, when I need to kind of get in the zone. And you know, the kids have been playing in the house, of course they're they're grown and out of the house now, but you know, 10 years ago, you know, everyone's being loud, doing their thing. You know, I need to just get in the zone, put on the noise-cancelling earphones and listen to something. It's like soundtrack music from movies is like the perfect thing. So I have a huge collection of that. Um, and but I love you know some of the movies where where it's just like the the soundtrack almost becomes like an integral part of the movie. And I think of one of the first ones I really encountered like that was heavy metal. Oh the the animated film, and just the way that that really you know came in with the rock soundtrack, and yeah, and that came out right as about the right about the point where I was sort of getting into that music anyway, so it was like just uh a really great kind of thing. But um I also look at uh at something like Cowboy Bebop, the series, where it's like the mu the jazz music is just such an integral.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

It's so good. Yeah. Uh-huh. So those are kind of yeah, I can't imagine either of those movies with different music. Yeah. Or, you know, or serious you know, I guess cowboy bebop's a series. I can't imagine either one with different music. I like you're right. Like they absolutely make it.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

And uh, you know, I can I could probably geek out on on other other musicals and things like that. Of course, you know, probably my one of the first, you know, I I'm I grew up as a science fiction nerd, you know, watching Star Trek, Star Wars, things like that when I was a kid. And you know, it's like my parents were were, you know, they would turn on the Western, you know, in the afternoon, you know, and I I would it would just bore me, send me out of the room. But you know, the first Western, one of the first westerns that really grabbed my attention and held me was um another learner in Lowe, which was Paint Your Wagon with Lee Marvin and uh Clint Eastwood. And again, it's just one of those of uh it's uh you know, it it actually is very surprising. You know, it's like he he's so gruff, but Lee Marvin actually has a pretty good voice in that film.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

That's um yeah, that's a weird one. I remember as a kid coming across that and thinking, what the hell? Why are they singing? Right, you know, this is what this is supposed to be a Western, why are they singing, you know? And but it was actually, yeah, that was a weird one.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

I remember that that one struck me as a just a sh the strangest western I'd ever seen as a kid, because again, what and then soon after that I discovered the wild, wild west, which of course also has a great soundtrack behind it, not not in the same sense. Uh it's not a musical, but you know that you know, sometimes I'll just find myself, you know, doing those little bass beats, you know, that they kind of thinking it to myself, especially when I'm writing my steampunk, you know, you kind of get that dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun you know that ran through all the uh episodes. And it's like sometimes that's just the right thing for you know, your characters who are sneaking around in the dark. So do you have a do you have like a very favorite soundtrack that you like like is there is there one that you just that you think is you know the one that knocks you over that you go to whatever it it really kind of depends on you know on probably the day of the week and and my particular mood. Um there there's one it's uh it's a uh Jess Franco film that has just a really mind-blowing soundtrack, and uh it you know uh it's uh Vampuros Lesbos, which you know uh uh it just sounds like you know, it's it's it's almost as cheesy a movie as it sounds, but you know, the soundtrack is like imagine the the jam session with Pink Floyd, Burt Baccarac, and Ravi Shankar playing together, and that's what this music sounds like, and it worked. What what was the film called again? Vampiros Lesbos.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Oh, Vampyros Lesbos. Yeah, okay, yeah. I've heard of it, I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

It's probably you know, Franco was one of those directors who just yeah, I guess what did he make? Something like two, three hundred films, something like that over his career. You know, he just went from one, you know, he just made them fast and cheap, and it's like this is one of the few that like kind of stands out amongst his uh his body of work.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

But uh it's well I guess I guess it's one of those things where if you make enough, eventually one of them will hit, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:39

And then another one that I actually really love the uh soundtrack of, and this is actually a movie I I really highly recommend is uh the the um is Werner Herzog's 1979 Nosferatu, where uh it was the electronic score to that, I think is just very haunting. And you know, if I'm writing horror, that that almost gets me right into the mood for it.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah, we we went through uh we've been kind of going through a Werner phase lately because he's been popping up a lot because we we watched uh a documentary and reviewed it for our podcast called My Best Fiend. Oh yeah, which is about him and Klaus. And so, you know, we we kind of we kind of got in touch with White Voyczyk and Fitzgaraldo and these others that he had done, uh these Peruvian movies that he had done. Um I think was also with he was in that stretch. Right. Um but yeah, it's uh yeah, that one keeps popping up, and I I've haven't seen it in a while. They're remaking it, you know, that uh Robert Eggers is Robert Eggers is about to release that.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

So yeah, I think it comes out this Halloween roughly. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yeah, it's gonna I'm I'm interested because it's yeah, he's got Defoe in it, so you know it's gonna be good.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

And of course Dafoe was in the uh Shadow of the Vampire as the vampire. So it's kind of fun to see him now doing uh I guess he's basically the Van Helsen character in uh in the new one. And uh so that's gonna be fun. And uh but yeah, I in fact I actually just wrote and turned in a short story uh that was inspired by uh the opening of Nosferatu. If you remember, there's that that scene where you see all the mummies at the beginning of Nosferatu, and it's uh I I find I actually use the real mummies that those are those are based on as my inspiration for the story, actually with them in the context of where they're from in Mexico. Wow. And uh uh Herzog, I I heard Herzog interviewed about it, and he said, you know, they're they're these are mummies that are only really a couple hundred years old, and and they were in this this uh Guanajuato, Mexico, uh, in this town. And uh they were basically uh people who whose families couldn't pay the the cemetery fee, and so they got disinterred and they were mummified. And so Herzog talks about, you know, he went to he he he had heard about them and thought he would just go in the museum and film. And they said, Oh yeah, you can take them outside, put them wherever you want, do whatever you want with them. It's just just wild, you know, that they were just sort of so they they just let him do that. And I mean it's powerful at the beginning, but it it's creepy as anything, you know, those uh that is creepy.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Jeez. I heard that the fact they did a bunch of rats and released them for that movie too. Like because he didn't white rats.

SPEAKER_04 43:32

Apparently, in the town that they had, they they couldn't get permission to do anything but but uh white rats in it, so they actually had to dye all the rats that you see in there are dyed gray. So it's like Herzog apparently was like dying rats in in a vat of grey dye and letting them go and just running around.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

I mean, this is the guy who drug a boat over a mountain and Fitzcaraldo. So and and then what he and then goes back onto a drowning boat, a capsizing boat to continue filming for another film. I mean, he's he's insane. I think I think he's a special, special sort of insane filmmaker. And also, I don't think he'll get away with that now. Like there's nobody who will there's nobody who will ensure that or underwrite that or let you do that anymore.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

Like you I mean I even wonder if back then I'm not even I even wonder if he had much in the way of that kind of uh Well, yeah, I guess when they're in the middle of Peru dealing with tribal peoples and that type of thing, and there's no really insurance company around or corporations around to tell you what to do.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

I don't know. I I guess I like I said, I guess maybe you could I could see you getting away with it on some small you know handheld movie that you were doing, small budget thing, but anything with a real budget where people are putting money in.

SPEAKER_04 44:56

I don't know. Yeah, it's really hard. It would be really hard to imagine Herzog doing the kinds of filmmaking he'd uh he he did back in those days today. Yeah, I just can't imagine him getting away with it.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Like maybe I'm wrong, maybe you could, but yeah. But otherwise you shut your shut down halfway through day one. First time Klaus Kinski starts screaming at somebody, you know, or shooting into random tents. Yeah, yeah. People are nuts. But it's okay, let's shoot keep shooting the next day. It's fine. I lost my fingertip, it's okay. I'm like, were these people like I I as we mentioned on on the uh that that episode, Cliff, I think that it was more like going to war with them making movies. Like getting injured was like a proud battle star if you got hurt making the Herzog film, it's like, well, yeah, that was supposed to happen. While as what we do is like safety first, like the complete opposite. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

I guess I could. I mean, uh, yeah, like I guess that's it's it's wild.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

I know it's a weird, it's a crazy mindset. It's like the Apocalypse Now or something like that, where you just go into the jungle and lose your mind.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Yeah, you go in the jungle for three years and lose your mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Instead, you go to the desert for a weekend and make a movie. I prefer first we're not drive all the actors crazy.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Oh my goodness. Um so do you have a do you have a favorite um like a favorite film that's based on music?

SPEAKER_04 46:39

Yeah, that's uh you know, as far as the where the music's kind of the center of the film. Um yeah, I have to think about that for a little bit because uh um there there's certainly you know, I mean, you know, certainly musicals come to mind. I mean, you know, like I I think you know, Jesus Christ Superstar has always been kind of one of those that that's always had a soft spot for me. And I've I've actually gotten to do uh you know the same director that I did the plays for. I was also in his choral group, and we did some of the songs from that. So that's uh that's a big part of that. And uh and pretty much anything, you know, as far as music being kind of the the principal theme, there there's a can't really think of anything right off the top of my head other than the musicals.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Yeah, I mean some people some people are like, no, I like yeah, here's my musical, and then other people's like, yeah, you know, just depends. Just depends.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

And of course, I I always love it when people find a way to make the musical work into the the narrative arc somehow. So you know, it's like uh a great example is the is the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode where they did the musical, where it was the demon basically possessed them all to to start singing everything. Yes and uh yeah, then then of course in last season Star Trek uh Strange New Worlds got to, you know, did their musical episode, although I think that was a little that felt a little little uh more contrived as to why everyone was singing, but it it the songs were good, but it was a little bit of a strange episode.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Yeah, yeah. Uh Dr. Horror will sing along.

SPEAKER_04 48:22

Yes, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

That's a good one. Yeah, that reminds me, that kind of falls in that vein too, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:31

And like I say, I've had a I have a soft spot for Star Trek because I grew up with that and you know, grew up with the original series, and then uh right before uh Star Trek Strange New Worlds uh started filming, um Ethan Peck, who plays Spock in in the new series, uh actually came up to Kit Peak and outed himself to to the visitor center. And he he came up and and spent about half a night with us at one of the telescopes and just hung out and you know, got to kind of see what was going on. And you know, he was very coy because I'm thinking he was on the NDA at that point for Strange New Worlds coming on. He had he had been Spock in Discovery and Strange New Worlds hadn't yet been announced, and so he said, you know, I'm I I'm up for this part where I'm a scientist, was basically what he said about it. But it was very cool. It was I and and it was even the cool part about that was it was my birthday the day he came up. He was really cool about you know taking pictures and and things like that. He even actually brought a Polaroid camera with him. He said, you know, it's people recognize me and you know want to take pictures and don't have their phone or their camera, so I I have this with me so we can send them away with a picture if they want.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Wow. Wow, that's a good idea. Yeah, that's actually a good idea. Sounds good. Cool guy. Um yeah, the only telescope I think or observatory I've ever looked out uh been to is the one at the and I guess it's not really observatory, but they've got a telescope at the U of A. Right that you can you can like public the public can go in and look through. Um and uh I I I remember going to that as a in my twenties. Um because it's kind of fascinating. Plus it's just a fun, fun time to go to the campus at night and see that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

Yeah, th those kinds of telescopes can be a lot of fun. I I used to manage uh a campus observatory over here at uh New Mexico State University in in Las Cruces, and uh um one of the telescopes there was that was in that but was actually a telescope uh built by Clyde Tombaugh, the guy who discovered Pluto. And so I actually had gotten to to meet and and know Clyde Tombaugh before he passed away. And actually that was another uh interesting little acting gig I got was uh back around uh 1998 was the the 150th anniversary of the city of Las Cruces, and so they wanted someone from the astronomy department to to be Clyde Tombaugh because he had just passed away. They were having different actors basically play famous people from the city's history. So you had someone playing uh Pat Garrett, you had someone playing uh Hiram Hadley, who founded the university. So so I was the guy that because I was the only guy with any kind of acting experience in the department, I I got pegged as Clyde Tombah. And uh my that was actually where I got one of my my favorite uh compliments on my acting skill was when uh Clyde's daughter came up to me and uh said, you know, you remind me so much of my dad when he was in his 30s. Because that that was that's nice, yeah. Yeah, and it was just just that was sweet. Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

So how do you feel about Neil deGrasse Tyson and all this downgrading Pluto from a planet horse nonsense? I mean, come on. You knew too, Bob.

SPEAKER_04 51:51

I I am I am in the camp that you know dwarf dwarf planets are planets too. You know, we shouldn't be uh discriminating against them for their size. So, you know, we we orbit a dwarf star, you know, and we don't make a big deal about it being a dwarf star. You know, it's like, you know, the dwarf planets, it's it's just another planet. I but you know, of course, then you have to, you know, if you're gonna learn all the planet names, you have to learn all the planet names, you know, all 13, 14 of them now.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

13 or 14, geez. Okay, so it's been a while since I've been to school, Marty. How about you?

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Last I knew there were nine.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

Yep. Yeah, there's you gotta have Ceres in the asteroid belt, which is as big as Pluto, and then which are which was the first one downgraded, actually, because that was originally a planet in the in the original conception, and then it got downgraded back even almost in the Victorian age or in the early 20th century, somewhere around there. And then, but then we found dwarf planets out beyond Pluto, so those have all come in as uh uh planets to be named planets that you can uh have out there. There's there's planets like uh um Make Make and uh Haumea Mea, named for the Hawaiian uh uh observatories where they they were uh found or the Hawaiian gods.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

See folks, you listen to this podcast, you learn things.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

Right?

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Exactly. We have learned people come on this show. I don't know why, but I mean we're you know we're not smart. But anyways, you learn something, see? 13, 14 planets, guys. Not eight, not nine, thirteen or fourteen. Unbelievable. What else you got, Marty?

SPEAKER_02 53:47

Well, I know you were only on our sets for uh a couple of days, but are there any standout moments from your time on the set?

SPEAKER_01 53:56

That's a great question. Yeah, we always like to hear about it if you know if you had a you know if you had a good time or anything you remember about uh you know your your time on set with us.

SPEAKER_04 54:03

I mean, I had a great time, you know, kind of on on all of it, but I I think especially when I was at when I was there at the comic book store, because that that really was, you know, it kind of marked really my my first actual, you know, aside from the commercial I did where I got to say, hi, I'm Clyde Tombaugh, come see me at events uh throughout Las Cruces. That that was uh that that was pretty much my my first actual acting gig with a with a speaking line. So it was uh it was just a lot of fun to kind of come in, see how the whole process was done, um, you know, hang out with with Eric and Nathan and and uh you know, and of course, like I say, I'm I'm a longtime comic book geek. I I you know when when I kind when everyone else was busy, I was kind of back there, you know, looking through the comic books and and keeping myself pretty entertained that way, too. Um even actually found uh one of the standouts and one of my souvenirs from the shoot that I bought from the store that day was uh a comic book written by a uh fellow who went to high school with my brother, actually. And ended up uh getting you know doing doing some work for Marvel, and this was actually one of his indie titles that he had done. But uh yeah, he he, among other things, was uh for a time was executive producer on the uh 90s uh X-Men animated series. Oh wow. So wow. But yeah, so my so my brother uh yeah, my brother went to high school with him, and and we have s several mutual friends from uh back in my California days.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Wow, it's a small world, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Yeah, it's amazing the number the amount of people that you run into or that know people that you know and so on. I it's really strange.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

Well, you know, just every but yeah, it was just fun, I think, hanging out on the set and and you know, getting to getting to meet you all and and kind of seeing you know the the whole process of blocking things out and figuring out the camera angles. And you know, that was kind of like I say, it was kind of the first time I really was was at the center of that. You know, when I did the commercial, it was pretty much stand here, say your line. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

Right, right, right, yeah. Well, it's it's like like Marty had alluded to, we were we were shooting something that day, we were attempting something that was a little tricky because we're shooting two conversations going on two separate sides of a room, and we're shooting behind so you can see, you know, basically we're shooting uh, you know, a conversation between two people while we're seeing two people in the background having a conversation, then we're flip-flopping that and going to the other side of the room and seeing the same, you know, the the other conversation while we see the other. So it's uh it's hard to explain you'll see in the movie for people if you've ever seen the movie, but um that was not easy. And so getting you blocked into that was uh was tricky, at least trying to it well it it made sense once we figured out where to put you, right? It was like, okay, shoot this, shoot this, shoot this, okay, put him here. Okay, now shoot. Okay, okay, keep going. Okay, yeah, great. But it took it took him, I remember it taking a minute to figure out how are we gonna, you know, because we want to do this. I I wanted to do this kind of cool idea of seeing these two conversations going on kind of back and forth and all that. But where are we gonna fit David in? So we see him in the background, so when this whole thing starts, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:29

Yeah, so that was really the first time I'd kind of gotten to see that process because even on Unsolved Mysteries, when you know, even though I was doing a lot of moving around, basically we were filming out in an old uh gravel quarry kind of place. And uh, you know, they had us walking around and interacting with with the guy who is the you know the actor playing the the guy they were after. And uh, but you know, pretty much uh pretty much you know what happened was when we were not filming, it's like okay, go over to the uh to the RV where we've got the snacks for you, and you know, so all of that was happening while we were kind of hidden away and out from underfoot. And so I didn't really get to see a lot of that on that particular set. You know, I of course I was a grad student in those days, and so you know, free food was was very welcome. So I I was perfectly happy to eat on their dime that day.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

But oh, that's every actor. That's every actor. Oh, sure, free food, you got it, yeah. Awesome. Well, David, thanks for um joining us today. I mean, we appreciate you uh coming on board um and uh talking to us about this stuff. Um and it and again, thanks for being in the film and and thanks for letting us kind of kind of put you in the background. Thanks for working with us on this on the second one, letting us throw throw your book around and you know, all that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 58:51

So Well, thanks for for letting me have the opportunity for some product placement and getting to see some behind the scenes uh filmmaking and and getting to have fun uh you know watching the whole process of movies getting made. That that's uh it's definitely a highlight working uh working with you guys.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Well, good. I mean it was again, it was a lot of fun having you on. So um yeah. Hopefully we'll uh be able to stick in something else that we're doing.

SPEAKER_04 59:20

Right. Sounds good. I I hope so. Hope we get another project soon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

Yeah, we're um I mean, as soon as this again, we probably can't talk much about it right now, but as soon as this thing that's going on kind of clears the hurdle, there's there is a project coming up that the four of us are talking about and sort of um baking right now, kind of you know, preparing to bake. Um so hopefully we'll have script, you know, a new script, you know, what, end of the year or something like that. Yeah, be looking to start shopping it around. Throw throw it your way and see what you think. Give us some feedback. Yeah. I'd love to read it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:58

You got anything you want to plug? Well, um, I mean, the big thing, the my newest novel that's out right now is called Ordeal of the Scarlet Order. That's actually the sequel to the one that was uh Vampire of the Scarlet Order, right? Yes. Yeah, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:13

And uh that that one is is brand new and and out on the out on the market right now. And uh also just as far as something to just mention is that uh Eric and I have been working on uh on an this uh audiobook project that we call Museum of the Omniverse, and that's just about to release. So we we've again we're kind of in a we're we're uh working out the final uh details on on getting it out there, but uh you know people can watch museumoftheomniverse.com uh to get more info.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

Museum of the omniverse.com, folks. You heard it here first. It's gonna be huge.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:57

And some exciting stuff. We have some some of the writer, you know, Tim Zahn, who is in uh both uh Zoe and uh he he's got a story in there, so I got to I actually got to act in a Tim Zon story, so that was kind of wow, awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Um we'll have to have you back on as a guest for um Talking Pondo, um, which is Talking Pondo is where Marty gives me a movie to watch, I give him a movie to watch, and we just kind of discuss what we watched. And so uh what what we're gonna do is start bringing on guests and we're gonna give them a movie, they give us a movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

We'll discuss it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

So maybe maybe back on, you give us a movie, we'll give you a movie, and we'll just we'll go back and forth over them.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:39

Yeah, sounds like fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Yeah. All right. Well then guys, it's uh anything else? I think so. Again, David, thanks thanks for having us on. Or thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me on. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:58

We'll talk we'll talk to you soon. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye, guys.