Making Pondo with Frank Powers

 In this episode we talk with Frank Powers. Frank played various parts in Revenge of Zoe and The Love Song of William H. Shaw.

Garth Ennis

Mr. Scrooge & Cratchit’s Halloween EXTRA Special

The Comic Book Mobile

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to season two of Making Pondo and Talking Pondo. Talking Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty give each other a film to watch and talk about them in detail. Some episodes will include a special guest. Making Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty talk to people they have worked with and discuss their experiences on set.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Today on Making Pondo, we talk with Frank Powers, who was in Revenge of Zoe and the Love Song of William H. Shaw.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Alright, guys, we're back.

unknown 0:33

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Back for another one, Marty.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Another one.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Another making pondo? Wow.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Wow. That's the show where Cliff and I talk about how we made Pondo. Like out of nothingness.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

I can't believe we have this many people to talk to. Surprising. It's pretty surprising when we started, it was just you and me talking to each other.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah. And now we're talking to Frank Powers. Frank Powers finally here.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

That's me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah. Long awaited.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

I'm very excited. I appreciate the invitation. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Thank you for coming on the show. I was excited to have you. It's a big deal. You were uh in two of our films.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Um he played a uh kind of a uh he was like a tough guy, tough guy friend of uh of a of a uh well I guess it was like a mob boss, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Or yeah, or the guy who ran the casino anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Ran the back room cards. But uh so he played a played played a guy playing cards and he had a line and then he played himself in our last movie um and was deep good enough to put on a shitload of makeup to do it. And uh uh also had lines. It was a lot of fun. So thanks for coming on, and we it's good to see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Well, thanks for the invites for all that again. Playing poker, that was a good fun introduction. Pretend to be a tough guy, wisecracking, always appreciate that. And then, yes, being Space Face at Tuscon because you were at a science fiction convention. So uh that's one of the best things. I had only figured out the idea of like since I started shaving my head of doing like not just face paint, but full head makeup, and it is a riot. Paint my head all gold or silver, and this was like a full galaxy, and I have the suit to match, so it was hysterical.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

It was fantastic, it looks great on screen. I remember telling Mari, I was like, Can we get Frank to put the makeup on? Can we can, you know, well, let's talk to Eric. Eric will talk to him. You know, so it's like a it was a three-pronged approach to get him to put the makeup on. And uh, we watched you, I remember walking by you as you were getting it applied, and it was you were just like, because it's long.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

I was late. I was running late that day, I forget because that's what it was. You guys were shooting and doing things, and then I had some other gig because I host her MC things or do whatever I'm doing around town and was like running to that, you know, and getting there. Talia's already there because it's really my friend Natalia Lopez that does the makeup. I couldn't do any of that, she makes it look amazing. Looks great.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Talia did a great job.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

And you definitely you got some footage of the behind the scenes of getting it applied, which was fun. I it was more that I had anxiety about being late. That's like one of my things. I've I have more anxiety about like again, because it'll be whether it's on stage or or acting things or that stuff. No anxiety. My anxiety is about I need to be on time, like I'm more nervous about being late and ruining it. So that was like tapping into that fear. Even just as we started, I sent a a message to Marty. I'm like, hurry, I'm nervous enough right as the link came.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Right at the end of the link at that same second.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

So funny. It's like it's 306. What what I don't want to screw this up. Is it in my spam?

SPEAKER_00 3:59

And you're also in Revenge of Zoe as a second character. You're hiding in Isle of Games as one of the background extras.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

I was definitely an extra. Also, a fun thing was uh pissed off panda has a lot of big scenes, and even animated me has some stuff because I think the there's some zoom-ins where you even just cut to where they're reading a pissed off panda comic, or it's after hours of Frank Powers like a poster. Oh, that's amazing. Yep. And that was my animated thing that I did a talk show. So the the cameos of just like my artwork is one of the most I think I'm more proud of that some of that than anything.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

That was fun. We we we I remember us going to Jeff and saying, you know, these guys are comic book guys, they would have this stuff at their homes and kind of around, you know, in in you know, and in with in local stuff, not not necessarily, you know, most of the comic book um owners that I know champion a lot of books. You know what I mean? They don't just they don't just hand you the here's the new, they know you want the new Avengers, but they're also trying to push like this like you know, that's how I got into Garth Innis, you know, which it was like, have you read this? I'm like, no, and you're like you really should read this. I'm like, oh my god. And uh so we asked Jeff, can you go around? Can you collect this stuff? Can you find this stuff? And and sure enough, he came back with all kinds of options. And pissed off panda was like, Oh, we have to put that. That's that has to go up. Yeah, you built the comic book store. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Like it was wild. I believe Jeff still has my cardboard cut out of pissed off panda. It's true. He still has it somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

He's on the that's hilarious. He does abscond with uh uh props and collect props. I mean, he's got like a an original Tron cell, and he does he's got a gun from one of the Star Trek movies and a prop from one of the Star Trek movies. So you never know. It's probably in his collection.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Savage, that Jeff, that Jeff Notkin.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, so Frank is the creator of Pissed Off Panda, which you see in the background of two of our movies a lot, in case you're a wondering out there, listener. What was the inspiration for that character?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Did that just pop in your head one day, or was there's a real good true story about it, and it involves even how I moved to involves being an impulsive kid and love. And uh one morning uh my best friend had moved away, you know, and I love this gal. And it's a month later, you know, so you're down in the dumps, you're like, what am I gonna do? And she had moved to Arizona. So then I'm like, I should just fly there. Like, I should just fly there because we were talking on the phone the night before, and I said, Ah, it never gets easier to say goodbye. She says, Then just say I'll see you tomorrow. I'm like, Yeah, all right, I'll see you tomorrow. And then I'm just sitting there thinking about that. And a plane flies overhead, and I'm like, you know what? And I went and I jumped on a plane and surprised her and wound up in Arizona, hung out for a few weeks, and then uh my sister had moved away, and she moved to San Diego. So I'm there for a few weeks hanging out, and then get on a bus, go to San Diego to visit my sister. What do you do there? You go to the San Diego Zoo, and then you gotta find something in the gift shop to apologize to for your parents for freaking them out by jumping on a plane one day and just disappearing because you know you're going through some stuff. So I was in the gift shop, and there's all these panda bears because that's the thing at San Diego Zoo, and one of them looked like wrong, he looked like miss stitched, and I go, Oh, look at this one. He looks pissed off, it's pissed off panda. And then that kind of starts the thing. So I doodle it a couple times in my sketchbook. I go back to school, starts up in September, and you pass your sketchbooks around, and whether it was a class or in uh uh dorm room or something like that, everyone stopped on that page of hundreds of pages and said, What's this? What's pissed off panda? Oh, pissed off panda. Well, he hates hugs, he hates this, he hates dancing hippos and all these funny things. And does he hate this? Yep, and I would draw it, and then it became a thing, and then that's how pissed off panda got started, and that opened the floodgates for like my creative characters. Like, I then created like nine or ten other characters, like he's my bug's bunny, and then all of a sudden the rest of the two is like, what about this and this and this? And it started from there, and then and that's what happened. So that's how I got pissed off panda.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Fascinating. That's a really cool story.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I got a lot of them. That's why we're here.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Yeah, I liked I like that. I liked I like that we were able to put it in the movie, and I like the uh I especially like your your animation on it. I think the character itself looks pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

I appreciate that. It's uh it's very Looney Tunes kind of mixed with uh Japanese uh anime influences. Yeah, very much very expressive, very expressive, and Tex Avery was very expressive in our you know, American style of animation, but also then the anime over-the-top nonsense with the way you exp emote in anime. Like I just kind of mix it up with that, and it's really fun to get. I'm more of an illustrator than anything else, which is hard because you want to be a better cartoonist, right? And cartooning when you look at certain ways that people uh cartoon, and I mean traditionally think of cartoons like comic strips, right? Um it's almost like a handwriting sometimes, like Pogo and the way that uh Dave Fitzsimmons, who is an amazing cartoonist here in Tucson, it's like a handwriting. And for me, it's more of an illustration, which is why I can't crank out as much, and it's hard for me to like do it. But man, when I push through enough, I'm a heck of an illustrator, and I just illustrate in this very good cartoony graphic design kind of style. So it's you know, it's how I kind of found the way to make it work.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

And how did we meet you? How did we how did you get involved with our how did we put you in front of a camera?

SPEAKER_01 9:50

How did that happen? Probably just extra through the networking of whoever else is in the first movie where I'm playing poker. Is like it was through that and through your friendship with Tuscan and probably putting a call out. And I am in that scene with a few people. I think Dale's in that scene, and I know Dale, and uh, you know, we have other other artists that are walking around in the other movies in the background with me that I'm friends with them. So I have a lot of people I was friends with. So however you put the general ask out to plenty of people, must have been it. It was definitely an invitation for sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm just trying to remember if it was through if it was Jeff or Eric that wrangled them. Oh, definitely Jeff. Definitely Jeff.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Because so Jeff, the thing about Jeff, Jeff Knockin, is that for everything he's done being in media with meteorite men and making all your stuff, he went to the school of visual arts, and that's my alma mater. That's where I went to the school of visual arts. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I went to SBA, and then um that's in New York City, right on uh third, twenty-third, right over there, something like that, somewhere around there. And that was the best because I did get to go to school in New York City for cartooning and illustration, and that's what he went to. He, I believe, I'm not sure if that's what he majored in, but he went to SBA as well uh in the 80s. So I did it, you know, a decade later. So we bumped into each other uh here in town. He was doing something at the R bar, putting on a kind of space-related art show. I'm down the street with my comp my like comic-themed art gallery that was trying to be an art gallery for like cartooning, because people call it low art. So I'm like, well, I'll make an art gallery for just this and independent comics. And that was the kind of the point. And we met there, and then I'm you know, over the top, being really fun, dressed up. We find out we went to the same college. He's a Ryan Jeff again, the nicest man, nice, like so funny, yeah, right. Yeah, so it was just natural everybody, yeah, yeah, and that's how it is. Well, because he's friendly, and that's what I got too. Networking here in Tucson, I always call Tucson the baby bear's porridge. It's just right, it's just right, and that's the thing is that this place really is good, and that can work for both sides because gossip can spread as well. So the thing is that you can really network here in town, but the other thing is that gossip can be a problem. So if you're a nice person, if you're a good guy who is genuine the way that Jeff is, the way that I am, I'm just this type of guy. I am a very just friendly, nice, very G-rated, family-friendly idiot like that. Just gets along with a lot of people and likes to be the class clown. When you live in a city that's kind of like a school, it's kind of easy to be the class clown, and everyone likes the class clown. So that's kind of my whole thing is that I'm your BFF, and that's not a joke. I'm your best friend forever because I am. I'm friends with everybody. That's my goal, is to be friends.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

I've heard you say best friend forever. I think you I think you said it the last time we were on set and we were like we were yep, yep, yep, I think you did. That's hilarious. That's my whole thing. I th I think you could stick Jeff in a cage with a polar bear and walk away and eight hours later, you know, they'd be chilling, you know. They'd be drinking Coca-Cola's. Would have would have exchanged numbers and you know, would be still have correspondence years later. That's just the type of guy Jeff is. Uh he's been a good he's been a godsend to us just as far as uh as a production partner. Yeah. Um he really, really has. So he's got the power. Okay. That makes sense, yeah. Because he well, I mean he just again, he knows everybody. You need a thing, I probably know somebody like oh, you need you need people who do artwork. Yeah, I know Frank Powers, I know this person. You know, you need people, oh yeah, you need some extras. Yeah, I'm sure they wouldn't mind being in a movie. You know, uh our last film has uh two two fucking astronauts in it. Yeah, because astronauts like fucking like fucking real astronauts. I'm not talking people in I'm not talking fake, I'm talking people who went up into space. You know, one guy who held held the record for being in space for like what was it a year or something like that? He was up in space in space lab. You know, and and they you know, because Jeff knows him, he was on the uh governor on some you know space board or something, he knows these people. And he's the president of space. He's the president and he should be. Right? He should be. Elon's the emperor and Jeff is the president because he's the dark emperor. The lightning from the fingertips, it's true. No, well, he's surrounded the place like a I mean, he's got like a it's I mean, have you seen the Starlink orbit thing? It looks like the damn, it looks like the Yavin 4 breakdown of the fucking Death Star in Star Wars.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Like that's what that's what planet Earth is now. It's weird. Not to like divert on and talk about you know all this sort of weird stuff, but yeah, uh, I saw John Oliver talk about the episode with Elon Musk, and like, oh, he's got this many satellites and controls the power of the internet. He could turn on the internet for a country, and it was fascinating to see that, like, oh, he's got a lot of power. These tech nerds really do have a lot of power that the old guard was not expecting with technology to just be like, uh, what just happened?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Yeah, oh what the fuck? You have access to space now? Oh, game changer. Anyway, we we we we diverge. Um what they don't have is Frank power. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

That's right. Don't forget, with Frank powers comes Frank responsibility. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

That's why that's why you're on this show.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

So I mean, this question's a little odd because I don't know how much acting you've actually done outside of being in our things, but I guess I should phrase it this way of uh you're interested in doing film and TV and stuff, I'm guessing, right? Is is there a uh aspect of it that inside excites you the most, whether it be producing, directing, writing, it's art directing?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Like it to a degree, it is it's the performing, but I have a tough time with the script. Like, my whole thing that I realized about me and doing the things that I've done, whether it's hosting game night, then I'm like, I don't really want to be a game show host anymore. And then I and then I had a talk show that I would do at a screening room or at a bar or whatever. And I'm like, okay, I kind of got this out of my system. I don't really want to do that. I preferred being kind of the wacky sidekick to being the talk show host because the talk show host is the straight man. I'd rather be Robin Williams as the guest on a talk show. I want to be the most fun guest.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

And you want to be you want to be sitting next to uh yeah, you want to be sitting next to the other guy on the couch riffing with Johnny, yeah with Carson.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah, yes, where I get to be over the top. So that was part of it. But I this is why people ask me, like, oh, you don't do stand-up. Like, I used to baffle some of the stand-up here in town for some reason where they would like confront me because they're a click. And they're like, I don't get it. What do you what do you do? I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, what do you do? Like I'm guilty of something because I'm the guy that counts down when the taco drops at Hotel Congress. I'm the guy that is celebrating and calling out the mayor for the 50th anniversary of the town of Oro Valley, and I MC all this stuff. And they're like, What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Master of ceremonies.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I love being the master of ceremonies, and that's not scripted.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Okay, so being an MC, being a radio DJ and a radio host, that's what I like because it's not being a stand-up comedian. A stand-up comedian makes a thing, polishes it, shines it, and repeats it and repeats it and repeats it like Divo play in Wibbet. Like where if you get into that, like that might be your one hit, is that material, and now you're that person. And I realized talking to another MC in town that I said, that's what I like. I like broadcasting, and that's what radio is, and that's what a talk show is. That's what MCing is. You're broadcasting. You're saying, hey, here we are. Hey, here's a funny thing I thought of just now, and now I'm gonna say it, and there it goes, forever. Like it's not some, oh, let me write that down. I put it in my material forever. You know, some of that shows up, but it's just about being able to be fun, be funny, literally, and for real, just on the fly and be an entertainer and not like a play like a scripted formatted tight thing. Now that said, I have done some of that and can do it, but it's just not as fun because it's more stressful, it's anxiety-ridden. I'm in um a sketch comedy group called Keep Tucson Sketchy. So that is another thing that came out of me and my friends just being silly, and and I'll even take a step back to how we got to that. So I had a one of my best friends moved away from Tucson, and then I'm like, I gotta go make some friends, right? Because there it was, like, all right. And I I had been kind of being codependent with let's go do stand up. And if he didn't want to do it, I was like, all right, and using him not want to do it for the reason I wouldn't go do an open mic or go do whatever. But he moves away, and then I go down to the TV studio. Down we had Creative Tucson Channel 20 back when we still had public access. Yeah, yeah, and I go to knock on the door, and it was so funny because I miss, because the door opens right right as I right as I go. And this guy answers, name's Jeff, and he goes, Oh, oh, were you coming to that thing? We actually canceled it because there was an event going on. Um, but and he was putting a sign up that they were rescheduling this like open TV thing, right? And I go, Oh, okay. And then he recognized me. He's like, Are you Frank Powers? And I'm like, Yeah, he goes, We were just talking about you in a meeting, and I'm like, No kidding, right? So that was kind of a good sign because they were on their thing where they're trying to think of some new things and do some stuff. And who in town could we do? Get fine, right? And I had started my business, the art gallery, like I was saying, which kind of worked as a billboard for me. For I'm an MC and I do this or I do this thing, me being wacky in town. I'm start wearing my fun suits just walking around downtown. So I start to become a character in the town, in this little high school. I'm the class clown. I'm literally dressed up, constantly wearing the funny outfits, the funny suits, painting my head, doing cosplay out on downtown and on second Saturdays, and becoming a known entity in the town. So as that's going on, some of them see me and they go, What about this guy? You know, because I'm throwing events at this venue and I'm starting to make some content because this is also I'm not trying I'm trying to think of when it is, but the funny thing is about me that entire time I had that store all the way till 2017, hadn't made a funny video. Didn't make a funny video, didn't make a commercial, and like you'd think, there was still a bit of stage fright. It was an odd thing. It wasn't until I got my radio show that I started doing live streams while I was on the radio. For me, it felt like an excuse because I'd always want to do podcasts and I would, but they were garbage, you know? And the thing about it is that doing the radio felt like it gave me permission to be like, hey, you're sitting side saddle while I do this fun thing. Don't you want to watch a guy be on the radio? It just gave a little hook to me to where it's it's not just me sitting in my bedroom going like, hey, here's what I think about stuff. It was me being like, hey, here's me trying to be entertaining. What do you think about this entertainment? Watch me try it live on a microphone. Hey, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and get done. I'm like, was that good? I don't know. Let's have fun. And then just talk about it. And it kind of became super motivational and it was growing and it was really fun. So doing that was good. And then going to the TV studio is where I get to this point. I realize this and I say this to everybody, it's the best advice you can ever get. And I tell it to everybody don't try to make your friends do the things you want to do. Make friends with people. Make friends, make friends with people doing the things you want to do. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

That's why when I went to the TV studio, if you're an artist, yeah, look at that. Yeah, it was built with people. Yeah, seek those like-minded people. Don't try to don't try to force the people around you to buy into your lunacy. Because you know what what we do is sort of like fucking trying to join the circus. Yes. You're looking to join the circus and you need to you need to find the other clowns.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

100%. That's 100% what it is. And that's why your parents can't have a tough time believing when you have lofty skills and lofty goals because you're climbing a mountain and you're saying, oh no, the apex is right there. Come on, guys. And you're pulling them along. And they're like, Why don't you just get a job as an accountant? Why don't you just get a job? And why aren't you just the way it's supposed to be? And it's like, ah, just trust me. Just trust me. I know. And that's why it'll be a couple years and there's no problem. And then all of a sudden one day your parents are like, When are you gonna stop? And it's like, oh, they've been quiet for two years. It's been building up again. And then it's like, now you're this age and we're this age. When is enough enough? And I'm like, no, I'm closer. You can't see it. I can see it. I'm sorry. Come on, a little. I know you didn't sign up for this. But we're climbing this mountain, this mountain of creativity to like try to achieve whatever we're trying to achieve. So finding those friends there is where this all starts, and that's where I get my first opportunities to be on camera, to start doing the news. First time I'm on the news, it's me literally reading it and I'm bouncing up and down because I'm so nervous. And I'm like bouncing on the on my heels that when I watch it, I'm bouncing the whole time. It's hysterical. The next day, second day, it's just it was as if I mean I was holding on so tight to my own like arms behind my back, like, don't move, right? Don't move at all. And it was right, that's how hard it was. And you gotta get all this out of your system, you gotta get in front of you gotta just do things. So then we start making funny content at the television studio. That leads us to having a sketch comedy group, all right. And but even in that, and this is goes back to my answer of like, do you like acting in the sketch comedy group? My joke is like, yeah, just give me one line. Because if it's me alone, I'm there. Um let's go. For some reason, when it's me and there's four other people like relying on me in a scene, I have so much anxiousness. I want two lines, I don't wanna, I don't know how they do it.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

I'm just worried you're gonna fuck the whole scene up by just telling me.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

I got anxiety, you know. I got anxiety, and there isn't art into trying to make the best out of like you know, that one line. You know, there's a guy, Rich Gary, and he's a local comedian. Sometimes he'll he'll end up just in a scale. We need a guy, and one time he's the waiter, and just he shows up and goes, Your soup, and that was it. That was the whole it doesn't matter. Anything else that happened that entire day, your soup was the he had one line and just he stole the show.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

So it was so it reminds me a bit of um Rollins talking about opening for Ozzy. He opens for Ozzy and then goes backstage to you know watch Ozzy come on stage, and there's Ozzy basically off in the corner, and he runs up aye Ozzy, it's you know that thanks for letting me open for you. And Ozzy goes, oh did people show up? And he goes, Yeah, it's fucking packed. It's like you know, it's the Florida, it's like the Florida State, you know, superdome, whatever the fuck it's packed. There's like you know, 30, 40,000 people. Yeah, you're good. He goes, Oh shit, I'm always worried they're never they're not gonna show up. And that's and this fucking Ozzy. You know, it's like everybody, I think everybody's got that anxiety of like I'm gonna fuck it up, they're not gonna show up, they're not gonna like me. You know, I'd I've never gotten on stage as a as a stand-up because of that. Like I did, I did acting, I got I got I'm not uh you know, I I did pretty well in in high school as an actor, and then Marty and I, that's kind of like you. We we went to public access and started doing, and that's how we we cut our teeth on public access for years, figuring out how to you know take phone calls live, figuring out how to deal with hecklers, figuring out what our comedy was, you know, and then we moved into writing scripts and it was like, oh, this is fucking a new, totally different world. Yeah, it's completely different. Yeah, because off the cuff, just go, go, go. It's when you have to stop and think about it and write it down, then you start, then you start going, oh, it doesn't sound right. Well, how that I'm fucking it up, I'm gonna I'm gonna fucking the rhythm of the speech up now because I wouldn't say it like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Anyway, yeah, yeah, but that's a actually what you just said there is correct. That's why sometimes you gotta be able to rewrite to just be able to say, like, that's not how I talk, no one talks like that. Right. When you write it, it's different. But that said, the best part about the sketch comedy group is that is when I that is the writing. Because I do love the writing. I love it because I'm really good at punching things up. I am really good at it, and that's the thing. I I have this ability to see a pattern. So when me and my buddy Joel, who I meet and I'm best friends with now, my writing partner Joel Foster, and he and me have made movies and shorts and all these different things. And the reason the sketch comedy group exists is because we did a funny thing at that television station where we wanted to put on a 24 and a half hour Christmas special just to show Ralphie what it's all about. So we did a parody of Scrooge, which then turns into my favorite thing that I do all the time. Where we have then done Scrooge Minis. We redid the Scrooge Christmas special in July, we do a stage version of it, we made a full-length feature film for the Halloween special, where I am just this version of Scrooge and he's Bob Cratchit, and it is a symphony, this Halloween movie. I love it, and it's on YouTube. You go see it right now. It's a two two two son Halloween extra special. They're all extra special because it's Scrooge. But that's the thing is that we'll link it in the footnotes, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Right. We'll link it in the show's footnotes for sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

That's where I really got like the acting chops and really realized this about acting, which some of you might appreciate. The idea of when everyone is so amazed at how Johnny Depp goes and becomes Captain Jack Sparrow and discovers and creates this character the way that perhaps Michael Keaton creates Beetlejuice, like where it is just like not everyone could have done that. Like he makes these choices and does these things and inflections and styles. And when Jack Sparrow shows up on set just a couple of days later and he is fully immersed in this character, he knows what Jack Sparrow had for breakfast, knows what Jack Sparrow did when he was 18 years old, knows what Jack Sparrow likes, dislikes, loves, hates, fears. All of that. That's what they mean when you become a character. And I did, I achieved that with Scrooge. Like with Scrooge, it becomes this thing that we've done it so much, and now I know I have so much about Scrooge where I just include him in all my stuff. And it's so fun because, yep, I know what Scrooge hates, likes, where he went to school, what he does, what he doesn't like, all this stuff, and it just keeps building on itself. And that is really fun. The thing with Scrooge is that we did do a full scripted movie, and then I and Joel would write it, and then I kind of go back and say, Well, what if we put this here and put this there so that way when we get to the end, it's referencing the first thing we said. And it's like I just see it, like you're like you're threading a shoelace through the, you know, to and then pulling it tight, and there's your movie. It's three acts, it came out really well. We accidentally do so many good things, but we do the thing that's the smartest, and it's really just play to your strengths, but just do the thing because there's so many things we didn't do or we're gonna do wrong, and we did them wrong. All right, now let's try again, let's edit it, edit it again, fix this, fix that. And one of the things we did was we made it kind of like Mel Brooks, where the boom mic can be in the shot, where I'm I'm obviously reading a teleprompter, right? And so Scrooge ends up at a point where he's in a situation reading a teleprompter and then obviously makes a joke and looks directly at the camera that's saying, as is my method, like just like that's what it is. Oh so if you've made it this far and you're like, he's obviously reading. Now Scrooge goes, I'm obvious, yes, I am obviously reading, and we continue on because I couldn't remember everything. So who cares? Scrooge is gonna read it and he's gonna make a joke that he's reading it because it's like space balls. So let's get freer to do that. As we've gotten better at making these movies, we go, yo, we can't make space balls anymore. We're good at it now.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

You can't, yeah. You gotta, yeah, you gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

You got better, yep, and that's where it's at. Where yeah, you just like how much have you grown when you really think about it? But how good is it, right? Like, how good is it that you did all that terrible stuff?

SPEAKER_02 29:53

How bad it was to get systems, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yes, because that's the only way this all works. Every single creative thing is sculpture.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Mound in that clay. Yeah, you learn them, and you learn them by doing. Uh oh, there's a fascinating study I heard about where they took a group of students, 20 students, they separated and they took 10. I read I think this I read, I think this is the from Bravo from the B side. They were talking about this, but uh they said they told each each each class, you're gonna make clay pots. Uh you 10 are gonna be graded on how many you make, you 10 are gonna be graded on the quality of what you make. And what they found was guess who made the most, guess who made the better pots? The kids who were fucking going for quantity. Yeah, because not only did they not only did they figure out how to make a lot of them, but they figured out how to make them good quickly, right? And so they by the end they were just cranking them the fuck out. The other the other ones stalled in the process of getting it made. What kind of clay should we use? What's the perfect shape? What's the perfect vessel for this? How is this going to be quality, quality, quality? And they never got any hardly got any pots made, right? And so I found that very informative. Um, and to and to kind of jump onto what you were saying about writing, uh, we've been writing, we wrote the same characters for four scripts. And so, and and it was kind of beneficial because it helped us hone our writing skills, but it also it's to the point now where it's like if you want to, if you if you if we came up with a decent enough idea that we actually wanted to put it to paper, Marty and I could probably sit those characters down pretty quickly and churn out another fucking script because it's like you said, you know who Pete is, yeah, you know who John is.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Frenzy wouldn't do that. This is a good thing. Yeah, literally.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Yeah, it just makes complete sense. It's it's the we don't have a Bible, but we know the Bible, you know, that that that that character type of Bible. So yeah, I I completely agree there.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

No, it's it's super important, and I always say this too, because the thing about what you guys have, and that I found with Joel is that you need a team. That's even the the sketch comedy group. So go into art school, the best part of it, critique, it's also the worst. That's why we're so good. We beat the hell out of these scripts when we do the sketch comedy, right? That's that's a real group effort where the script is not yours. You're coming up with an idea to do a parody of Popeye and do all this stuff. Sure, let's do it. But then everyone weighs in. And by the end of it, it might be like, oh, this parody of Popeye turned into a commercial for a Popeye thing. And it's like, but this is hysterical, so now that's what it is, and you just beat it. And that's why some people that try to join they can't, they get too precious about these scripts, these ideas of writing is a fucking word right out of my mouth.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Precious. You can you cannot be precious with your fucking material. Comedy-wise, especially you you just gotta go with the best idea.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Yep, kill your darlings, as they say. Kill your darlings, yeah. That's not good. You gotta do that. You gotta always ask yourself how much you want that thing that's in there that you might even like the most.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

And sometimes am I just holding on to it because I like it? I mean, is it funny? Is it funny to me, maybe, but it doesn't work within the whole context of the scene or the or the bit that I'm doing. Right. You know, and and you're like, fuck, all right, take it out. Damn it, I really wanted to see that.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

But that's that's that's what's serving, that's the best choice, man. Yep, yeah. I say that any creative project is about getting help, working together. Think of anything you do, and anything is like, oh, well, the this short film I'm making, or this drawing, or this poster, this thing, it's just you know, 11,722 decisions. That's all it is from start to finish. And I'm good all the way up until decision 8,706. And then for some reason, I am like, why can't I make a this about that? And you just got to give it to somebody else. Yeah, don't get don't stop the project because you've already made 8,000 decisions and now you hit one roadblock and you got writer's block, art block, whatever it is. Get help, put it out there, figure out what it is to solve that decision. And then guess what? The other 5,000 decisions might come just oh, as easy as the first 8,000. And that's the point.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

And when you're working with a crew, you can delegate that shit to which is nice where you can say, look, I'm focused on this right now, but we here's this problem that's popped up. Can somebody take this? Yeah, and so he goes, Yeah, I got I'll take that. Thank you. And then and then they'll check, you know, you the if you trust your people and you know who you're working with, they'll check back in with you and say, Here's what I'm thinking. You go, yeah, give them a little feedback, and then they're off and running. Usually what you get back is it sometimes even better than what you expected. Maybe a little bit different, and you're like, Oh fuck, this is way better than what I had in mind. Let's do this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Some good advice that I've seen on some of these like podcasters and and stuff like that is at some point they go when as they're getting success. Remember, they need to spend time booking the guests or doing this editing. They go, you know what, at some point you have to let the editing go. You hire a freelancer to do the editing and you go, Ah, but I'm not and then you get it back. It turns out, oh, I like it, it's fine. And you have to let that part go because you can tear the tickets and take the pop the popcorn too, but uh, it's your job to make the film. And I'll never forget the first time that some some maniac I was working for was barking at me about something because he was just like Mr. Spacely. It's actually it's the person we base Scrooge on. So the it's so funny. So he was barking at me because I was hosting a thing and we were out on Fourth Avenue doing a thing. He's barking at me about some nonsense, and then someone pulls him aside that works for him that was not afraid of him, says, Hey, back away from him, leave the talent alone. I was like, the talent?

SPEAKER_03 35:14

It's the first time I got called the talent.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yeah, because it was my job to not be like and sweating. It's my job to be happy and full of just, oh, I rehearsed, I'm ready to go. Are we done? I don't have someone yelling at me about where are we going to lunch, you know, and that was kind of the thing. And you realize that that's what you have to do. You gotta ask for help, you gotta give up some authority, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

You gotta a lot of all of this stuff, and that's also trust. You gotta know the people you're working with, and what you know, you know, and of course, if you don't know them that well, then you gotta kind of, you know, not keep them on a short leash, but you gotta check in with them a lot. You gotta make sure they understand where everybody's, you know, are we all on the same page?

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Are we still on the same page? But yes, and that's important too, is being on the same page because when you're making a my favorite thing is when a ragtag group of kids get together and make a project, even in a movie, like Revenge of the Nerds, if we're here to save the orphanage, if we're here to do this and put on a play, it's my favorite theme of even fictional media.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Because then everybody's friends at the end of it. That's hilarious. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Yes, it's true, it's the best experience. No, it's I just love that that's your favorite trope in films. That's it. A hundred percent is like a really fun thing. And like, you know, road trip across the country is a good one too.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Goonie, the kids, the Goonie kids getting together to find one-eye Willie's treasure and the in a way, monster squad teaming up, the strength of the all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Well, those are adventures, they're often adventure. This is like let's make a thing.

unknown 36:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Oh, make a school of rock, even school of rock.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Right, oh, okay, school of rock.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

That's good. Yeah, yeah. Like that that's one of my favorite types of things, is just and also Hollywood making fun of Hollywood.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

So you bring up um School of Rock, and uh one of my questions that I like to ask people is do you have a film based on about music? Not necessarily a musical, but a film about music or a band that you enjoy. I I'm a big that's my favorite genre of film is movies that basically like the commitments or um that thing you do, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

So do you have a do you have a favorite movie like that? Sadly, I was gonna I noticed that one. I'm like, I am not the biggest musical guy. In fact, I've like disliked them. So I was like, my answer to this, I'll tell you, I couldn't come up with them, and now it just hit me. I'm like, if there's anything, it's the Muppets. If I can include the Muppets. That's fucking perfect. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

That's totally, yeah. Yeah, that's a great one. That first one, especially, is fucking magical. That's the one where he rides the bike, right? Yep. How the fuck did they get him to ride a bike?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

That's amazing. I just saw uh I saw a YouTube video that literally emphasized that, like, because the Muppets are real, and they are, that's the amazing thing about Muppets, right? They show up in Hollywood Squares, they're there on a talk show, they're real. We as a culture acknowledge the Muppets as celebrities playing parts in films. Even again, one of those movies is like Kermit starts the movie. Hi ho, in this movie, me and Bosie are reporters, and we're brothers. Like he just breaks the fourth wall, tells you the plot, we're playing brothers. That's what's up.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Get everybody up to speed so we can get moving here.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Because we're actors. We are just celebrities in your world, and that's the best part about Muppets.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

So did you see the uh did you see the Happy Time murders with Melissa McCarthy and the Muppets?

SPEAKER_01 38:20

I didn't, no.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Um, and so it's an ad it's basically it's like lethal weapon only if Muppets were yeah, it's like alien nation and lethal weapon together, but the aliens are just Muppets.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

That's hysterical.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

And like Melissa McCarthy Melissa McCarthy is hooked on like a Muppet drug. She has a she has a drug problem, she's a kind of a kind of a crooked cop.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

And yeah, anyway, uh worth of worth of view if you ever if you're if if you haven't seen it, the electric mayhem, which unfortunately last year season on Disney Plus was excellent and is good because it's a parody of kind of making a documentary. And there's an episode that is so funny and makes such good references, and like even uh like uh whoever directed I don't want to give away the joke, but I forget which one of them, but like famous directors show up in it, like looking to get involved with the electric mayhem, and it's just so great. So I recommend that.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

I'll have to check that out. I had a lot more hope for that um Muppets relaunch, but they that one camera Muppets comedy that they did, but it was just basically just too much office, too much the office.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Well, that was a theme.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

I mean, I liked that it was I was just hoping for it to really kind of catch a little bit more and take off, but it just you just uh sometimes it is just the fact that they didn't advertise the fact that it was for adults enough.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

That Fozzie's dating, they make these jokes that are hysterical. Talk about the bikes, right? From that first movie. One of the best things, and I can close my eyes and see it now, because the theme of that Muppets, where it's kind of like The Office, is that they work on Miss Piggy's talk show, which is a perfect natural progression for the Muppets. There is a full song and dance number that Miss Piggy does that I am like, how did they do this? And how did it not win an award? Oh, and that's what I was gonna say. There's some YouTuber that like kind of made an emphasis about like the Muppets kind of get looked over because we look at them as real, as like they are like they deserve special effects awards and are never nominated. The bike riding scene, all that stuff. It's like that's such a huge special effect, especially at the time. But because oh no, that's just Kermit. That's what he does, right? Like, it doesn't get looked at as a special effect as something special.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

I think you're absolutely right. I mean, it it I mean the dark crystal kind of kind of was kind of quietly poo-pooed, you know. I mean, there was a you know, the the yoga. He finds its audience later, like the labyrinth does too, because it's just a bit too. Well, and one of one of the things that always my my uh one of my friends has two twins. They're they're two years old, and she said that the two things that they constantly watch are Mystery Science Theater and the Muppets. That's that's their those, and I'm just like, you're raising your kids are gonna be fine. You you're you know, but just the fact that but that but the Muppet still grabs kids, even with all the pat the electronics and all that shit. There's the Muppets, and kids still go boom, I'll sit down and watch the Muppets. That's funny. Funny's funny. It tells me that it tells me that the future's gonna be okay. And you're right, funny's funny.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Funny's funny, and the Muppets are timeless. Again, put on the Muppet Show. It's from the early 80s, late 70s, and it's hysterical. Some of these celebrity guests are mind-blowing. All right, there's a run where I watched it, it's Mark Hamill, then it's Christopher Reeves, then it's Linda Carter. Like these are the episodes day out. I'm like, what? Well, it's like it's like Star Trek Next Generation.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Everybody wanted to be on it. It's so everybody wanted to be on it.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

I mean, it was just you know that might be one of my favorite, it might be my favorite show of all time, maybe it's Star Trek Next Generation. It's really good. It's really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

It's it's it's and and amongst most of those show sci-fi shows, it's such a standout because it's pacing and its uh tone is so different than than the rest of them. It's just singular. Yeah, did you watch Picard? Did you watch Picard?

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Did you finish? Did you love season three so much? Like I finished it.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

I've finished it.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Okay. Well, finish Picard because season three is like he says in the interviews, he says, I didn't want it to just be a reunion. I didn't want it just be that. By the time they get season three, he's like, No, we should give everyone what we what they want. And and that's what happens because we get everyone back to have one last ride, and that's what you want, and it is phenomenal. Like they did such a great job. I love Picard. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I take it you're probably a fan of Muppet Christmas Carol.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yeah, you have the whole Scrooge thing going, and that's Scrooge, he's just some imposter. Bah! A bunch of propaganda, that's what I call it. But yeah, again, Muppet Christmas Carol, they're all just so funny and great.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Uh so is there a dream role? I mean, Scrooge has turned into one in a way. That's been like the thing that you like to do every year. But is there like if you got cast in any kind of movie or TV show or even radio, what what would be the ideal thing that you were looking for?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

So it's really fun that I think that there are certain like people that it's almost like a checklist that you want to play. Like you want to play, maybe you want to play Jesus at a point or God, right? You want to play the president at a point in a thing, perhaps. Okay. But maybe um, I don't know. Like when it when it comes to some of these, you know, like what right? Like what character to be, like in a thing. Like how fun and how fun is that? So I I don't know. I'm not sure if there is a specific dream like role or character, but uh, but that just like the idea of being like one of those, you know, like maybe you're way in charge of it, and I definitely should not be. You know, like it's that kind of thing. Like being the maybe playing the president in something would be absolutely hysterical, you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

Oh, like Dave. Yeah, just that.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Or even again, just like even a Small part, like even if it's just, you know, like President Camacho in Idiocracy, he's not in an attack.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

That's the other one I was thinking.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yeah, but yeah, like like what like I shouldn't be playing like a distinguished president. No, it should be in some ridiculous world where it's like, and this is the president. Like it's just absurd. That makes sense. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

You're the president in space balls. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Could you imagine? Or even I'll say if there's one thing, maybe it is like to be on Star Trek. That could be a thing. Any Star Trek. Like that would be amazing. That I'm like, and there's me. Even if I walk by on the bridge. You know, that would be insane.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Yeah, we saw QA with Rain Wilson, and he was he was uh glowing with the fact that he got to play Mud. He got to say he was ecstatic that he got to play Henry Mudd. It was a big deal for him. That's what I'm saying. Everybody wanted to be on fucking Star Trek. Everybody. Yeah, anyway. Well, Marty, you had a question.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

So it's much like you're uh wanting to be the talk show guest who's the uh Robin Williams S thing. It's kind of like being the I'm that character that comes in and says the line about the soup, and that's what you take away from it, right? So that makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Less is more. That's the idea. I think don't forget Picasso, all right, he could paint photorealistic, but then it just becomes that. Wow, where can I go from here to try to do the most with the absolute least? Yeah, and that is even uh good advice for anybody making any film. So Scrooge, I'm we made that movie and we did the 24 and a half hour you know marathon thing for Christmas, like I'm saying. But then the goal of like, I want to make a holiday special for every holiday, that's what it became. But the goal was to make them as short as possible. Like the daylight savings one is 32 seconds long. Like that's how long it is. But it was to make them about three minutes, you know, shooting for about three to four tops. If we're going in four and change, no, too long. Like, just get it done. It's a comic strip, you know, not a comic book. Think of it like that. Even as an illustrator, as I was saying before, I realized I'd have a lot more success doing comic strips than comic books. Because oh, drawing to me, so challenging. I'm here to draw Garfield and John Arbuckle. I don't want to draw Superman flying over an entire city that's in perspective, cars and buildings and spaceships and all this stuff, and none of that matters. Oh, that's the background. I can't handle backgrounds. That's always what stopped me from being successful at illustration. That idea of what we were talking about before, where it's like make something bad just to get it made. It's hard to do that in illustration because it's hard to be like, hey, I drew a great superhero and now look at the city in the back. It is undoable. Like I couldn't I couldn't do it. You know, you can you record and have bad audio, you can perform and have bad acting. Drawing, it's like you can't, it's like it's you just can't have it drawn so poorly, you know. So it's beyond your ability because it's that. So making backgrounds is beyond my ability, and that's what stopped me from making more comics, and should just make comic strips where the background of a Garfield comic strip is a gradient that changes a shape a little sometimes, and that's it. You don't got to worry about the backgrounds as much.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

So it was it was always my favorite part of Waterson's uh uh work was you get to the Sunday page, and he especially when he when Calvin and Hobbes was in its height and he got a a quarter of the fucking front of the Sunday page. That's because always watercolored. It was it was just him kind of flexing his muscle a bit, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 47:25

He was the only one that had that permission. He was the only one that had that permission. It was in his contracts.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

And because if you look at comics, they're all they all had to be delivered in a panel format because every newspaper is formatted differently. And even if your newspaper has Garfield on Sunday, six across with a banner, every comic strip delivered a banner and six across, and they also delivered six vertical. Every single one of them has to deliver bolts for every newspaper.

unknown 47:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Bill Waterson is the only one that's like, nope, this is how it is, because it's a painting. Yeah, that and he was so good. And that's what I loved.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

He was just, yeah, he just, you know, he'd show up on Sundays with those fuck, man. Some of those spaceman spiffs were just gorgeous. I mean, absolutely gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

I mean, that's and that's that's where again you gotta let the talent be the talent, where the artist is the artist, he has a manager. Do you think he's negotiating that? No, because he is an artist's artist, he's out there, right? That's why it is the way it is. It's the curse and the gift, it's the agony and the ecstasy.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

That's what it is. You don't edit light my fire, you put it out two sides of a 45, and you fucking flip the record, and that's how it's gonna be. Kiss my ass.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Did they let Charles Schultz have his consistent panels as well? Did he have that power?

SPEAKER_01 48:46

His was in four, his was formatted. His was in square format. Yep. He wasn't trying to break panels. No, okay. Nope. Not really trying to do it. It was really only Bill Watterson's, like really trying to achieve that sort of thing, you know, and then you have your distinct shapes of the single panels, whether it's family circus and a circle or far side and square. You know, like that, you still have those single panel comics that fill in the blanks, but traditionally it's almost everybody is just squares and rectangles, and then Bill Watterson's the one that breaks the mold just a smidge.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Now, who knew we were gonna learn so much about fucking comic strips and how they're laid out on this? See, don't forget when you when you when you when you listen, when you bring on good guests, you learn shit.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

We're talking about the past. Let's talk about the present because I got a gift for you. It's the comic book mobile. That's what I actually do around town these days, where I drive around in a 1969 VW bus teaching kids how to draw cartoons and how to believe in themselves. And that's like what a lot of what I'm trying to do is is really that's like my small business. I have a great uh contract with the libraries where I go teach kids at the libraries and perform on stage. Now, this is it. I do it kind of the same every time, but different. Because much like I was saying about those Scrooge things, I didn't script them. Scrooge was bullet points. That's how we would do Scrooge. Uh, similar to professional wrestling, one of my favorite things. The thing that melds everything I like is professional wrestling because they are on a script, but they're also improving. They go to promo land. You go to promo land, it's called, where it's just all right, I just need to get them into Madison Square Garden Sunday for this event, and I gotta make sure that I mention that his ankles hurt. Here we go. Three minutes of tugging on your hard strings and making sure that I'm gonna gnaw on that ankle because I and just getting the beats in and you create something, and that is an ability that's in a way lost in some professional wrestling, but is also coming back these days. It's a bit of improv mixed with script, which I like because it allows you to go somewhere, you know, and that takes away the anxiety of messing up a line, you know, like that whole thing. And it's just got a lot of that creative freedom. So that's what I really love about that, the broadcasting and the performing for the kids. Kids, by the way, easiest audience on earth, which is the other part of it. All these stand-up comedians crying on stage about all their psychological problems. I'll tell you what, just make a few fart sounds and come up with some good knockoff jokes, and you'll feel great because I entertain up to 140 kids at a point. I had them for 90 minutes. That's not so you can't easy. It actually is not as hard as you think. Okay, it's not because you just 90 minutes. That sounds that sounds doesn't sound easy. I'm drawing cartoons, so it's kind of like being a magician. I I am genuinely funny.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Okay, yeah. My family knew a cartoonist, and I and we would go to dinner and I would sit next to him and he would just doodle shit out, and I would just watch him talk to him for hours. Okay, I see you.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Yep. Let them shout out their favorite character, teach them a lesson along the way. You give out free stickers, stickers work like cash for kids. So that's the thing. I give them stickers all the time, and that's one of the best things ever. And even have events where it's like a sticker swap. So bring your stickers. There's nothing cuter than a bunch of kids showing up with their various lunchboxes, briefcases, whatever they keep their stickers in, and then they want to trade you a sticker. Oh, that's a great sticker. That's worth at least 10 of my stickers. Oh, they can't believe it. And that's what it is, where I go and it's really fun to get kids to just believe in themselves because that's what I would have loved growing up. And let me tell you, I record all these things so I can watch them back and get better at it, right? And see, oh, maybe this part fits better there. Oh, maybe I could talk about being honest here and link it into Superman and then being bullyproof. Ah, there's a rhythm now. So, see what I mean about you look back and you make find the pattern. So that's what I do. I look back, find that pattern, make this a true performance that's a bit repetitive, but not. Use my bullet points so I don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

And you don't script it so it's kind of stays fresh, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Right, you know, 100%. You know, different examples every time, because you never know what character they're gonna shout out. Sure, sure. If you have some you can guarantee, but I'll tell you, here's a here's a hysterical story, and then I'm gonna tell well, let me tell you like really like I watched it back, and two times this happened once. Two times in in two weeks span. Once a week is what I meant to say. Is that I'm watching it back and I I touched on something and I was like, oh, and that's why I do this. Because I almost cried in front of this room full of kids. Because I'm telling them about believing in themselves, they don't believe in bullies. I stopped lying at the age of 26, and I say this whole thing about hey kids, who do you hang out with the most? And I ask adults too, who do you hang with the most? And they all, they're mom, their dad. No, you hang out with you the most right in here. So who do you think you lie to the most? You're lying to yourself, right? So you can't be sitting there saying you stink I'm the worst, believing the bullies that are gonna lie to you because they're jealous. You have to be bullyproof, you have to believe in yourself because I don't want you to feel the way I felt growing up, and then my voice cracks because that's what it is. And I got upset in front of this group of kids and was just like, because you can do it, you can do anything, you just gotta really try. I was the quietest kid in school. I shut down in like second grade because I got made fun of so bad that it like broke my heart because it was by a girl, and I really like became so introverted, which by the way, that's why I can draw. That's a lot of hours in a kid's room by himself. That's that's a kid by himself, you know. That's why we like comics. That's a nerd growing up, where every single bit of media is telling me, you're a loser, Millhouse. You're the worst Ducky, you're never gonna make it. Ducky. And you love I thought Ducky fucking ruled. He's not the worst that kind of fucking ruled. You can you can think that, but I'm sorry, watch that movie.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

No, it's it's it's true, buddy. But I was I was an outcast kid too. To me, Ducky was fucking dope as hell.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Nah, not when you're trying to get a date. Absolutely. If you don't want the girls telling you you're ducky, there's nothing wrong with being a good, outgoing, fun green hair, I had green hair, whatever I'm gonna do, right? And green hair wasn't until later, you know. So the thing about nothing wrong being alternative and fun, punk rock, all that stuff. I was all that, but I'm talking about second grade, third grade, fourth, fifth. That's beyond the teenage years of 16 candles, where again I had to stand up for myself, and it was Jim Carrey, it was him being the best guest on David Letterman, it was Ace Venture coming out, and me finally starting to be like, I want to be the guy that I am at home in public. I'm funny, I can do this. So I get contact lenses, I get a haircut, because back then glasses meant you're the worst, you know. I get a new blue jacket, you know, and again, not like my family was broke, but we didn't have Nikes, I didn't have pumps, I didn't have uh anything, you know, I didn't have anything, but I got a new starter jacket, right? Right, I didn't have a starter jacket, it was but I had a blue jacket, and it made me feel confident. And I go back in eighth grade, and because I had I had 50 absences in seventh grade from anxiety and from getting bullied and picked on that I would avoid at any chance I got. I make a bet with my parents in eighth grade to get perfect attendance. I get it. I have that that medal is right over there, and I'm proud of it because it showed what I was able to do to fight all of this and become one of the most popular kids in school, to then have the ability to I'm gonna be in the play, and then people make fun of you because by the way, it's the 90s, so what do you think they're calling you? Oh, because you want to be in a play, right? The thing that everyone's calling me because I can't get a date, and I'm like, leave me alone, all right? Like, not like this is the thing, all right. Some of my best friends, obviously, gay friends, all this stuff. But when you're trying to get a date and the world's like, no, you have to be gay, you are, because you're nice, and it's New York and it's Long Island, which to this day, Long Island's a bit of a gay witch hunt. For some reason, these people are obsessed with it. They're just no, you think I don't know, he has to be. And I still meet friends, it's a certain mentality. I'm yep, and I'm so I'm I'm the way that I am that even to this day, I have people they are they will corner me in a room and say, You could tell me you are though, right? And I'm like, could you leave me alone? Why is it so important to you anyway? You know, and I again like it's just so ridiculous. But when you're young and it's the 90s, and you want to just be in a play, and everyone is then gonna beat you up and say, You're gay. That used to be the word for bad. That's gay. This is gay. Like, that's what people used to do growing up. And I'm like, yeah, bring it. I said, I'm gonna be in the play, bring it, because I realized I'm six foot now and I was bigger than all these bullies, and I started to just stand up for myself. And then, of course, when the play happens, and it was the Wizard of Oz, and I was Uncle Henry, it's not even like I was a big role, right? But I did the set and did my first MCing that year, get made fun of for that, and then after it was all done, all these people privately in a hallway in a class like, by the way, you did a really good job at that thing the other day. I'm like, why were you making fun of me? Because I was jealous. Because he's the athlete that right. He doesn't, I don't want people to think I'm gay. I'm like, wow, what a world! So I'm glad that things like high school musical and like musical theater, because going back to you liking musicals and things like that, became so popular for the youth and for kids that you would see the high schools, and it's like the play is tonight and the street is full, the parking lot's full. Everyone came to see the musical on the play in high school again because acceptance happens, you're allowed to do these things, and no matter what I do, because by the way, I'll wear a rainbow suit in town doing my fun things, dressing how I want. I don't care what I'm doing. Because by the way, if I was gay, wouldn't I be in front of the parade?

SPEAKER_02 58:57

Like I'd be the best at it. Yeah, I'd be the best at it, right? Yeah, you'd be the best. Yeah, you'd be you'd be very colorful for sure.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

Yeah, but that's the thing, like no one likes to be like just like you must like leave me be.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Because you know, anything I do is just what I'm doing. And if you need to put a weird label on it, fine, but you don't gotta try to slap that label on me, corner me, bother me about it.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

So it's it's really weird. Your early talk about you know being an introvert and that leading that to learning to teach you to draw, you know, learning how to draw and everything. There's a bit that Patton Oswald does where he talks about uh Great Adventure Park, the California Great Adventure, which is owned by Disney, and there's a spirit cave, right? And the kids so you go in the, you know, you go across Great Adventure and they're oh kids, let's go into the spirit cave. And you go into the spirit cave and you put your hand on the wall, and a video appears of the animal and tells you what your spirit animal is, right? And you can be an eagle and you can be a wolf and you can be an otter or or you could be a fucking skunk. And he's like, and it happened to a kid while I was there with my kid. There was a group that came in, and the kid put his hand on the wall, and oh, you're a smelly skunk. And he said, and I could see the fucking goth makeup, you know, like forming on the kid's face. He's seven years old. And he said, and he said, I could he said, I imagine this is how Disney creates animators, you know, these fucking outcast kids, that fucking skunk, and he's just learning to draw in his room, you know, because he can't get a date, and you know, he's the sticky skunk.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

You know, I really look at some of these uh the shows that have come out in the cartoon network over the past decade, and me and my friend goes, Man, those cal art kids, they really got those parent issues, don't they? These kids at CalArts, oh man, they gotta work on their daddy issues because you could see it in the theme of so many things.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

So many things. Yeah, so funny. Did you uh did you have a um a one of the questions we ask is if you had a like a favorite moment while you were working with us on set or if you have a favorite memory from from working with us?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Well, just like terrible memory. No, it was it was fun to be on a professional set. A it was fun to watch you guys ram like run all over Tuscon. So just seeing you guys doing it. Um, and who's star is it Bradford? Yeah, Bradford. He was just awesome talking to him. I just saw him in a different short film that I was uh going somewhere in the screening room, and I was like, ah, there he is, I know him. So really funny to see him, and just like he was just great to talk to. Uh, but yeah, it was just really fun to watch you guys doing it because again, there's this whole thing that I I know exists because it it just happens too much, and it's keeping up with the Johnsons, where when you do something, all of a sudden you do see other people in your periphery that are like, oh, they maybe start to do that thing, or they maybe ask about the thing or do the thing. And there's the negative stuff that people are like, my neighbor bought a boat, so now it unlocks the idea. Like, why don't I have a boat? And that's the idea where it's almost competitive and negative, like where it's the Johnsons, it's the two neighbors that don't like each other. But at the same time, when you see people doing exactly what you're doing, and I'm like, I kind of do that. We do that, we can do that. That's what we do, that's what I do. They're doing it, I can do it too. Look what they're doing. Look at you guys winning awards. Like, you're taking the film around, and then you're winning awards. And that's the important thing that I think people got to realize too. I'm sure in a way, you're sick of your film because you've been staring at it for years, or you've been editing it for too long, or doing this, but you gotta realize but this room has seen zero of it, and this room has seen zero of it, and this room has seen zero of it, but it's five years old, doesn't matter. This room has seen zero of it, and and that's the idea is that you taking that around and getting some accolades for this stuff and not just being like, Well, we did it, it's done. On to the next, you know, like giving a work of art the treatment it deserves by framing it and bringing it to galleries, uh i.e., these festivals, so people can see it. Yeah, that's such a big part of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:58

It did lead to uh it did lead to some good things. I mean, we've got an announcement coming up pretty soon. We we're not exactly sure when, but we but uh hopefully be announcing some good things with it. Um with the actually all three of them, it's because it's a trilogy. So um we're super excited about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

So we just can't say just yet what's going on, but we're right there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

So yeah, but to to but to yeah, to to cover your uh to comment, yeah. I'm tired of the film.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

I I I love I love the films that I've made, but it's all it's almost like uh get out of the house, go get your own life, go also we're hiring an editor from here on out, like we were discussing earlier, because we you know we had such limited resources and we were doing all the jobs ourselves, but going further, maybe getting larger budgets, we can start delegating some of this stuff. So we're just worrying about making the film and let other people do the editing, and yeah, it's now we're letting Jeff do the set decoration and we're bringing in you know costumers, and it used to be we'd wear all those hats, so it's kind of nice to spread it out to have that trust and people and delegate, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

It's a big part of success, it's about teams. You gotta find your team. That's the real thing. Find the people that motivate you and you motivate. And then my thing with this about it is it is about getting outside. That's why I feel like I have a creative garden. Like I have several things I'm working on that can also like Scrooge gets like I I move the needle on Scrooge only twice a year, probably. I do it in December and I do it in July. That's it. Like, and then you think you're gonna keep doing it, but no, it's done. Now I'm on to this thing now because now it's a different thing, but then it's always there for you. So it's fun to have different creative projects where as a break, and I mean, maybe this is also a mindset. I can say you have the similar mindset, I could tell how as a way for creativity is like, oh, I've been working so hard, now I can take a break by working on this. Yeah, like that's a funny thing, right? You the way you take a break is by working. But yeah, I can't just sit, it's very difficult. I'll say my best advice for maybe when you are like, let me just do nothing. Because of so much new stuff, revisit the things that you say are your favorite. Because I used to watch Predator once a year, but now it's like, wow, I haven't seen Predator in like six years, have I? I used to watch the Muppet movie once a year. Certain things where you like they're your tent poles of kind of your Anchorman. I put on Anchorman the other day for the first time in so long, me and my sister. Every scene is a quotable scene. It's insane like how good it is. And you're like, yeah, I've been saying it, like it's good to revisit it and remind yourself of who you are because we are our favorite thing. So revisit your favorite thing because it fuels your creative energy, because that's why you're the way you are. It's gonna remind you.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:42

That's a good reason and partially why we do the podcast. Not the making part is so we can talk to the people, our creatives, and keep the creative juices flowing and keep contact with people and talk to talk to great people like you. But then the other part is talking about films and like, hey, have you seen this? You need to watch this. Like, I I want to talk to you about this. To watch this and then or hey, right, we haven't seen this in a while. Let's watch this and talk about it. And and you watch stuff and you go, Oh, that didn't hold up. That no. Like I'm I've had a false memory or some shit. Or it was just I was 12 and it was great, right? And then other stuff you go, and other stuff you go, I didn't like that, but now I totally get it. I like it even more. Yeah. Like it even more. I think it's even more brilliant now. You know, holy shit, I where has this been for the my entire life? You know, Marty, Marty, Marty came across the Jacques Tati films, and I know they've had kind of an impact on him as far as where the fuck how the fuck did I not stumble across this? I get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

Yeah. You know what's a good example of that? Star Trek The Next Generation, because you're growing up, and who do you like? Oh, Data's the best. And then you get to a certain age, and then it's like, you know, that Riker, he's such a riot. Then you get to another age, and I'm like, It's Warfard, always been Picard. To me, there was a pinnacle moment in my life where it's like, oh my God, it was all about Wharf because I was getting too much disrespect. I was getting too much of a lack of honor. Okay. And I needed some of this good Klingon vibe where he is the most stoic. It's all about respect, it's all about honor. And I'm like, Wharf is it. And some of those episodes about Klingons that I was just like, blah blah blah, are now like this is important. Like, and and I was going to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Klingon episodes are pretty good. The ones where he goes back to the Klingon homeworld, those are pretty good episodes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:23

Yeah. What he sacrifices. Like, Wharf is just going through it, you know, and you don't realize that when you're a kid. Like you you see that as a father, as an adult, as an as an older person, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

I love it when he shows up with the with the fucking uh with the ship in uh deep space nine. Defiant because it needs it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

Deep space nine needed some wharf. Get him in there. He did. Thank goodness. Did and he and he crushed it in Picard. He did. Passive Wharf. Passive Wharf is amazing. See? Oh, it's all about growing up. And that was again, like I say, going back to that stuff about growing up before. It was because also I love Star Trek. So in eighth grade, one of my yearbook photos is me like this. I hold up that Star Trek sign like gangsta, like backwards. Because I'm like, yeah, I like Star Trek, and so what you should too. And I started to be what I call one of the very first nerds that started to pioneer being this accepted culture of nerddom, not being an outcast, not being a loser because you love something so much, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

And that was I think that nerd culture still exists, but I think for the most part, like the things that we loved and were so weird and so fringe are so normal now. Yep. So known. And they have IPs based on them, and there are series based on them. And and I mean, I and but you know, there's new stuff that that the nerd culture still kind of exists around, but the stigmata of it is just not to me, the stigma of it is just not the same as it used to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

I don't I don't I mean I know kids still get bullied and things like that, but right because it's not about just pop culture, it's because again, right the nerd thing, yeah. People selling you nerd is something I hate too, because nerd isn't nerd, it's being weird, it's being on the fringe, it's being socially awkward, it's anxiety, it's it's not fitting in. Like I did not fit in. This is a story of me getting myself to fit in.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

I did have to change nerd has definitely changed, yeah. Because like what our our pop culture of nerd is now normal pop culture. A lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

You know, most of it. I mean, here's the funniest thing on earth. I had to send away for a Spider-Man t-shirt in the mail. Think of that. Think of how far we've come.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

That was a while ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

No, just a bit. Just a bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

So ridiculous. I wore underoos. That's the kind of nerd I was.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

That's right, but still.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

And Captain America, goddamn.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:53

And a handsome Iron Man. I'll tell you, those are those are some those are some rare underoos, I think. Those aren't the main characters right there. That's some Avenger Underoos.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:02

Mark, you got any other questions?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

Like, I used to wear a Texas Chainsaw shirt when I was like 14 in the 80s, and people were like, What? And now horror is another one of those things where it's like Trinity is horror. Today it was like you're a weirdo, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Yeah, I'd wear a Misfit's t-shirt, get the weirdest looks. Yeah. It was also a way that you could tell where your group was, though. Yeah, you're like, I'll talk to you. You go over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

Yeah, well, that's all we used to have. I mean, again, some people complain a bit too much about online dating, and I'm like, you know, it's not all that different. You're just getting a little more than a t-shirt. It used to be there's a there's someone at a bar. Oh, I like that t-shirt. I like the thing that they're into. That's about all you know when you're at a concert, right? What band tea do they have? But now it's like, oh, they like this, they like that, they like the Avengers, we'll get along on a date. Like after that, everything's the same. You're still meeting and having conversation, and fingers crossed it all works out.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

Yeah, see if it works out.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:00

Yeah, that's true. Easier than video dating.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

Which is before my time, but I remember hearing about you go and you'd watch the video tapes of the different people.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

Oh, you gotta there's festivals, there's found footage festivals.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:14

That just show these poor folks. You know, that's all fashion did not exist. And people were 30 and they looked like Wilfrid Brimley.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:29

Well, you got anything you want to plug? I mean, I know you were talking about your bookmobile earlier.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

Yeah, the comic book mobile uh is existing here in Tucson, Arizona. I'm doing a lot with it as far as things are concerned, where I'm going around to all these public events, libraries, and fun things. But it's not just about the bookmobile, it's about your BFF, your best Frank Forever. So the thing that I am doing right now when it comes to performing and moving forward with stuff is it's finally time where I am really going to create a children's television show. And not just a children's television show, but a different genre of an educational children's television show, which is a completely different genre. Plenty of children's TV, educational television is not as rampant. And I think we need Mr. Rogers back. There's not a lot of real human beings, adults, talking to kids on television about heavy stuff. And that's the idea, because even blues clues, they didn't talk about divorce on blues clues, they didn't talk about heavy topics as much. And nowadays everything's animated. You got baby everything and all this sort of stuff that I really do feel that we could use a voice for that. And I have just put it in this phrase of I want to raise a generation. Like that's what I want to do. I really see it when I go teach these kids in person and get them to believe in themselves because of just trying to unlock it in them because of the idea. Like I say, I don't want them to feel the way I felt growing up. And here's the thing, and it's it's tough. All right, this is a so now here's a tough topic real quick, so just be warned. But the reason that I really got into what I'm doing that it fueled it, and that I I did a pitch competition with the idea of the comic bookmobile, and then to win a pitch competition, it's that you're telling a story. Well, every good story has to have some hurt in it. So, what's gonna be the hurt that makes of the class clown shows up and I'm gonna win I'm gonna win this competition? I found a statistic in children that there's a suicide rate in 10-year-olds and it's rising. And that is where I then said, and that's where I draw the line, no pun intended, because I didn't think that that could happen. I couldn't fathom it. And I know how I felt growing up. So I don't want any kid to be so fooled at 10 years old that they feel that bad. And I know that I can help a lot of kids because I do it person to person, place to place here in town. So if I can get to the next step using media, I know I can affect the nation. And I really do. You can hear the tone of my voice, I believe in myself, and that's what I'm trying to tell these kids, and that's the real thing is like it's a very odd thing. So I just I just went to Vegas to the licensing show. I'm saving up money to go to kids screen. I've got my pitch, I've got what it is. The show is Best Frank Forever, that's what it's called. It's a little bit of Mr. Rogers and a little bit of Bob Ross, because we're gonna solve a problem like Mr. Rogers, and then we're gonna draw a little cartoon about it at the end, like Bob Ross.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:37

That's fantastic, right? And then some days two of the two of the Trinity, two of the holy of the of the uh the non-Christian holy trinity is uh who's the third? Well, it's it's Steve Irwin.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:49

Okay. Steve is exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:51

Be good be good to be good to other people, which is Mr. Rogers, be good to yourself, which is Bob, and then be good to analysts, which is there you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:58

I love that because it's got obviously a little bit of reading rainbow in there too. LeVar Burton, Star Trek.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:02

So yeah, well, he's he should he's definitely in there too, I'm sure. I'm yeah, I'm sure we'll get people yelling at us.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:08

Steve Irwin, Steve Irwin is huge because he was an adult, grown man teaching children. That's what we're talking about. LeVar Burton's there. Again, Bill Nye, but Bill Nye's for adults now, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

He had the same thing you have, which is passion. I mean, we can you can hear the passion in your voice, you can hear the belief. And that's that that carries in things like this quite a quite a quite a ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

And it's been a part of growing up, even again, that's why I'm not using I don't do pissed off panda as much. I'm never gonna let him go. But he's my example that I almost wanted to come up with a while ago. Like we all have a pissed-off panda inside, and I used to be after being so bullied and a kid and all that stuff, then there's the the age where it's later and you're filled with rage. I had so much anger, and I'm a New Yorker, so moving out to Tucson was one of the best things that did happen to me because I realized that that is not the way the world feels. There's a documentary about it, you've probably seen it. It's called Ghostbusters 2.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

The River of Slime is real, and that's the thing is that school in New Jersey for two years, and yeah, I think I yeah, it's a it's a culture shock when you live in another.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:12

It's a culture shock, and Long Island is totally different. Long Island is even its own bubble because they've got wealth. Yeah, the Hamptons exist out there, it's you got poverty, but you got a lot of wealth, and Long Island is just its own little place, like I said, about the gay witch hunt, which by the way, I don't want it to sound like I'm homophobic or anything like that when I was speaking about that, but nobody wants to be told, no, you must be this. And I'm like, well, sorry, I'm not right, leave me be, right? Like it's just this thing, but that place, because you could tell it comes with a weird fear and a weird hatred of it. You know, I I can't imagine what it must have been like in Texas if you're going through this as well. Certain places where people get killed for this sort of thing, right? So it's scary when you're growing up and you you read those stories and you're like, oh, right, because it's scary, especially when you have the world beating you up. So later on, when you get mad at the world or you're mad at the way things are, I'm glad that I was able to process that, and that's what I want to teach kids because it goes back to that thing. It's it's believing in your heroes and the fact that I haven't told a lie since I'm 26 because of some heartbreak, because of that girl that I flew out to that I loved, it didn't work out. So there's heartbreak there, right? And because of that heartbreak, I go through some feelings with her and this and that, and I think about my heroes, and there's a joke that says if I grow up to be half the man my dad is, I'm three foot two. But the other thing is that I want to be like Superman, I believe in Superman, I hate the negativity Superman gets that he's just what too good. People have a tough time believing in that, and that's the problem with people is that man, you want to elevate the Joker and give him an Oscar and redeem him, and redeem Darth Vader and redeem every villain, but just believing in someone being the best at being a good guy, oh F him. And I'm like, no, actually. So that's when it was I'm never gonna tell a lie, and then that's what helped me get past the way I felt and get all these barnacles off the hull of this ship and and see who I am and figure it out and realize I didn't deserve a damn thing. I hadn't worked hard yet, you know, and and holding myself accountable for all the lies I've been telling myself, holding myself accountable for my lack of action, my laziness when it comes to creative projects, because you know what it takes to make a movie, right? It's the same amount of effort that it takes to make a comic book. That is a six-person job. 24 to 30 pages, how many illustrations per page, and you write it. You got to be good at inking and coloring and lettering and editing. Ah, find a team. Don't do it all yourself. Find a team and work on these creative projects by making friends, by being a good, friendly, fun person, not a negative, angry person. And be honest with yourself about the lack of work that you've done, because that's what's gonna really get you to the next step. And and it's gonna get you over being afraid to try.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:17

Don't be afraid to try, don't be lazy, and you'll find don't be afraid to fail because it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

Right. Uh, because it's gonna happen. Who cares? It's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:24

Who cares? Because there's joy in failure. Yeah, learn learn from it, move, move on, do the next thing. Yeah, what's the best part of any movie?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:32

That's yeah. The bloopers. What's the best part of any any sports? The bloopers, you'll get the best funniest moments of your life just by trying to do something great when it goes wrong. It's the funniest thing that'll ever happen to me. I mean, I mean the cannonball run should have gotten the Oscar just for the credits, just for the credits alone. Right. But yeah, I don't know. You see, you see how I am. I get a little too, you know. You ask me, oh, if I had one more thing and we went for 20 minutes, I hate long. Best Frank, best Frank forever. That's what I'm all about. So I'm gonna make a TV show. Hopefully, you'll see me do it or be a part of it at some point. I want to help a bunch of kids stay here and be here so that they can grow up to be the creative maniacs that we are, because they know that they survive the agony and the ecstasy of making art.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:17

That's one of the great projects, man. I I I I admire the passion in it. I hope I hope you succeed. And if there's anything we can do to help you, reach out. Don't hesitate.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:25

Well, I'll tell you what, I'm the type of guy that when someone says that to me, I'll go. So you can expect it. All right, fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:33

All right. Well, Frank, thanks so much, buddy. It was great talking to you. Um, thanks for being so open and honest with us about what you what you had to say. It was great to hear to hear. And uh again, I'm really pulling for you. Like, like I said, with the I I desperately would love to see a new Mr. Rogers. I think that would be I think that would be the greatest thing for for kids. No problem. I mean, I think it would just be awesome. So I appreciate it. Best of luck to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:56

And best of luck to you with everything you're doing, because again, watching you tour around and do what you're doing, you you never you you don't you don't hear when people see you, you know, you see with their eyes. Not everyone's gonna send you a message. So just again, like I'm always watching and always appreciate seeing your success. It fuels me to see it and makes me feel confident that, and you know what, one day I'll be able to call those two guys. Like, and that's the thing, and I know that because that is the point of doing all this stuff. It's about making friends, making fun things together, and a ragtag group of kids getting together and making a project.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:34

Same the orphanage.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:35

That's right, you gotta save that orphanage. You gotta save that orphanage. I love it. All right, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:41

Until next time, we'll see you. Bye.