Talking Pondo: Ladyhawke and Big Night with Dylan J. Schlender

 In this episode, Dylan J. Schlender (from Reels of Justice) joins the podcast. He brings along the movie Ladyhawke. Marty and Clif give Dylan the movie Big Night to watch.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to season two of Making Pondo and Talking Pondo. Talking Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty give each other a film to watch and talk about them in detail. Some episodes will include a special guest. Making Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty talk to people they have worked with and discuss their experiences on set. Alright, Marty, we're back. And we're back. Talking Pondo.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

With a guest.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Talking Pondo with guests.

unknown 0:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

I don't know why I'm so excited. Well, I'm excited because this week's guest is going to be pretty good when I think.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

It's a lot to be excited about. It's overall episode number 69.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

I can't. I want to, but I can't.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

But what but really what that means is we're about to have a format switch. Some of you regular listeners might have noticed that we've uh moved away from the making pondo format where we talked to people we made movies with, and now we've kind of replaced it by expanding out the talking pondo where Cliff and I talk about movies and making it talking pondo with guests. Because it's we've been enjoying having a third or a fourth person come in and talk about movies with us as well. And so that moving forward will be replacing the making pondo format. So it should be something like uh talking with guests and then two weeks of Cliff and I just talking by ourselves and then another guest, so two to one ratio.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

So yeah, we'll see how that goes for a while. And yeah. Uh oh now, of course, we've got another movie on the way, so or in in the in the works. So when we get that done, we'll probably end up dragging those people back onto the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Exactly.

unknown 1:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

So who do we have this week, though?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Oh, so this week, uh at long last from Reals of Justice Podcast, it's Dylan Schlender.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Can I say something now? Okay, say hi. Or is it too soon?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Oh, by all means.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Oh, okay, cut that out. Okay, now uh so happy to be here. And I was gonna say, Marty and Cliff, you guys gotta make another movie. Keep the making Pondo going, you know? Oh, yeah, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen in the 14th. And you gotta have that guy in it, the guy that's in all your movies. I his name escapes you right now, but he's he's uh William Shaw, that actor. Oh, oh, Bradford. Bradford, god, that guy is funny. He is so good. Yeah, you guys yeah, he's great. I love him. If he's listening, I hope he knows how much I love him. He's good.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Nice. Oh my goodness. Well, man, thanks for so much for coming on. Um, we're excited uh to do this with you, and you brought a pretty good movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

I like to think so, yes. I believe that was the assignment was pretty good. It's like, hey, don't don't go for anything too crazy, okay. We're looking for okay to average, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Okay, look, I mean honestly, Marty and I have avoided any any five-star big, you know, like big serious movies because we just we don't feel like we're there yet to get to those things. So we're sort of dancing around the really big ones and avoiding them to sort of talk about the other stuff and and I guess sharp sharpen our shots.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

You have to be careful in this um in this climate, right? Because there's hundreds of movies podcasts out there. So you have to be able to bring something original to the table. And if you're just gonna talk about like the most popular movies all the time, I mean, like, who's gonna sit here and listen to that, really? You know? I mean, first of all, we're already asking people to listen to us talk about movies instead of watching them, which is a big ask, you know. But this is the life we've chosen.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

So, uh Marty, what what were the movies this week?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Okay, so the movies this week were uh the first one was Eclipse. Well, wait a minute. There was an eclipse in the movie. I'm sorry. It was uh Ladyhawk. Ladyhawk. I'm sorry, because I got confused for a second there.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

I know. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

It just had an eclipse in it. Spoilers, you know. And then the other movie that uh we gave this week was Big Night. Big night. A movie that I thought I had seen, but I don't think I ever had seen it until just now.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

I'm right there with you. Honestly, I've seen this. That is insane that you two say that because the re when when you suggested this movie, I had thought I had seen it because I had heard um our friend Simon Majumdar talk about on his podcast, Eat My Globe, when he was talking about movies that involved the uh food, and he mentioned Big Night. And when he was describing it, I'm like, oh yeah, I've seen that Stanley Tucci uh and uh Tony Shaloub there, and then I actually watched it and I was like, oh no, I don't think I have seen this.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

So I watched it twice in rapid succession to be ready for the show because I thought I knew more about it than I did. I have no idea what movie I was thinking of then, but uh it involved chefs, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

So uh let's let's start with Big Night.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

I like it.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, so Cliff, what is Big Night?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

All right, so let me give you the uh I'll give you the uh basically kind of the log line, then I'll give you the synopsis of the film here. So New Jersey, 1950s. Two brothers run an Italian restaurant. The business is not going well as a rival Italian restaurant is now competing in it. In a final effort to save the restaurant, the brothers plan to put on an evening of incredible food. And your storyline is Primo and Secundo are two brothers who have both immigrated from Italy to open an Italian restaurant in America. Primo is the irascible and gifted chef, brilliant in his culinary genius, but determined not to squander his talent on making the routine dishes that customers expect, like spaghetti with meatballs. Secundo is the smooth front man trying to keep the restaurant financially afloat, despite few patrons other than a poor artist who pays with his paintings. The owner of the nearby Pascals restaurant, enormously successful, despite its mediocre fare, offers a solution. He'll call his friend a big time jazz musician named Louis Prima to play a special benefit at their restaurant. Primo begins to prepare his masterpiece, A Feast of a Lifetime for the Brothers Big Knight. That's a perfect description.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Wait, did it really take place in the 50s? Yeah. Yeah. 1950 exactly, I think, right? Well, you know, because uh the the premium cars I thought was an interesting like choice, but if you when you're watching this movie, this movie could have been contemporary in 1996, really, if not for the cars. Uh right down to the smoking. It was funny. I was watching with my girlfriend, and I was like, I wish I could smoke at a bank. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Oh my god. I was one of my notes is uh smoking at restaurants. I both miss it and don't miss it.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Uh yeah. You do you really start doing it, and then you're like, oh, okay, you know what? Like the the smokes of the curtains is not getting out of clothes. Yeah, exactly. You know, so the dog smells like tobacco. It's disgusting. I I really like sitting on the deck when it comes to smoking. I like being inside to eat my fancy Italian food, though. So agreed.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Um, so first thing I want to say is that Ellen Lewis cast the fuck out of this movie. Oh, great. Holy shit. It's everywhere you the camera turns, it's somebody, it's like, oh my god, Mark Anthony's in this movie, and he has two lines. Right. He has two fucking lines in the entire movie.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

He says so much without saying anything. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. I mean, Ian Holm, right? That's his name, right? You never you never think for a second about Bilbo Baggins, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah, I actually had to point that out. I said, Oh, that's gonna be Bilbo Baggins, and like he has such big energy and that ridiculous little mustache. And you know, this isn't really that far off from like it's what is the first Lord of the Rings, like, what, 99? This is 93.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

It was right around the corner.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah, it was like right there. 96, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

And he's definitely the reason the movie's rated R because he says fuck so many times in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Oh my god, definitely, definitely. So, I mean, so written and produced by Tucci, uh, Campbell Scott and he both produce and uh co-produce and co-direct. Co-direct, which is unusual in the 90s. Very unusual.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Now that's something you two could speak to, which is why I picked this movie. That's the twist. It had nothing to do with Tony Shaloub. It had everything to do with two directors. What so you're watching this movie, right? You two, and you have the director's eye. Do you think you're able to tell who's behind the camera when or who makes what call? Do you think you could or maybe not knowing exactly who it was, but just knowing they switched, right? Like, okay, this was director A, this was director B, whether or not you knew it was Tucci or Campbell.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

I I feel like one of the for me, one of the things that felt like Campbell Scott directed was his first appearance, which was the car sale. And you know, when Tucci's walking and he, hey, how's it gonna get in the car, you know, and they go take off driving. I feel like for some reason, I feel like Campbell Scott directed that. I definitely feel like Tucci directed most of the stuff in the restaurant or the kitchen. For some reason. And I I feel like that may even be how they divided their work. I'm gonna shoot the stuff over at Pascal's, I'm gonna shoot the car stuff, I'm gonna shoot the beach fight, you're gonna shoot the restaurant and the kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

I could see that, yeah. And it is pretty seamless, but when you break it down like that, it does kind of make sense. Or maybe obviously.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Or maybe it's the opposite, coming from like a from a practical standpoint where Tucci's like, I'd prefer to be in front of the camera and not have to worry about what's going on behind it while I'm acting. You know, so like because he's in most, I mean, damn, he's in most of the movie anyways, but a lot of it takes place in the restaurant, so maybe Scott's like, I'll direct that part, you can focus on acting, and then direct the other parts. I don't know. But I if I had to guess, it feels like Tucci directed most of the stuff indoors or in the restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Oh, can you hear me? I think I might have been on mute for a second. Yeah, it doesn't feel like they're clashing at all either, which is nice, but it is funny the way you say it, Cliff. I think if you took those scenes in a vacuum, you probably would guess they were different directors, though. Now that I'm really especially like the beach fight, because it's like so wide compared to the rest of the movie and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's almost like just a master that holds the entire time. Like you can see in the background people leaving because they're tired, kind of tired of watching the fight. I don't want to do this.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, I know. No, no, that's a that's a good point. And then, yeah, there's almost like uh the car stuff, it almost does feel like a little different from the rest of the movie. But it at the same time, Stanley Tucci needed that break. You kind of needed that break because there's a lot of tension in the movie. And you know, that's one thing I want to say about this movie. It does a very good job of making you kind of feel what Stanley Tucci's feeling, feeling that tension, even though ostensibly, this is just about a restaurant that might go under. I mean, like 80% of restaurants go under, but they're able to bring a lot of emotional depth to it. And though I do have to say it took a little wind out of my sails where it turned out that uh oh, I suppose you guys have a spoiler warning for all this. Yeah, oh yeah, we've yeah, spoiler shit out of it. Absolutely. But when we find out that Stanley Tucci's actually cheating on Mini.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

I fucking took the words out of my mouth. I know, and I was like, oh, I'm like, he's a scumbag, come on, you know, and it's just like but it just it made me, it made me, it made me if I was just kind of more like, well, you're kind of an ass. I mean, maybe deserve it. Like, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Well, I don't want to deserve it.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

A little bit of trouble rooting for you now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Yeah, exactly. But here's the thing, though.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I think you still want to root for the other brother, though. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

You want to vote root for Primo, but here's the other thing, though. It it's real though. Like, it I don't think it's played up to make him sympathetic. I don't think it's played up to make him look like a scumbag. I think it's played up to say, like, hey, this is just a real thing that happened. And then as we get to the end of the movie, the fact that they don't get the happy end, like the restaurant is gonna close, you know, like they're they're out of money. Like there's they literally only have each other, is basically what the ending in the movie is. It's pretty depressing. Uh, during my brief research, uh, I guess they wanted the that is to say the studio wanted Tucci and Campbell to change the ending, and they wouldn't do it. You can't do it. You change the ending, you lose that scene where he makes the fucking omelet and feeds his brother, and that's the best fucking scene in the entire movie. Well, I don't know if I'd go that far. I like the Tampini, but we'll get to that. But my uh because I'm hungry. This movie's still fucking good. Oh, yeah, no, no. See, that's that's what I kind of like about uh this movie. It kind of has almost like a like a uh a wistfulness to it, you know. It's it's that that is it it feels authentic. That's the thing. It's like sometimes dramas are too contrived, and you can and you can appreciate that because it's a movie, right? And you guys make movies, you know you gotta punch stuff up every once in a while. But this feels like everything in this, this could have happened. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like it does kind of feel like we're a fly on the wall for all of this stuff, you know? It's like it's so it had a sense of realism about it that didn't lose any of that kind of like tension or wonderment that you're having. So you're still enjoying it, even though it's very plain, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

No, I mean it's it's um having just watched a Sean Baker film, it it reminded me a little bit of that where it Sean Baker seems to just kind of capture people being people uh really well. And uh that felt like that's what they were doing here, and you know, just too and you know, with but with more of a little bit more of an elaborate story and and other things going on, but it just felt really like um like you said, genuine. Um like that annoying first dining couple, like oh yeah, you kept waiting with the cheese. Yeah, I yeah, I worked in restaurants for years, and it's just like, oh fuck, I've waited on those people, they suck, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

I know. Like not understanding. Well, yeah, actually, you know what's another it's a bit of a so at the time I didn't realize the movie was in the 50s. I had picked up on it later, of course, or that it wasn't contemporary rather, but when she was like complaining about the risotto, I was like, I was actually even thinking, like, you know, 96 risotto is not as big as it is even now. You know, Hell's Kitchen made risotto very popular. And but yeah, never mind in the 50s. Yeah, no, they weren't eating.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah, she's like, what am I eating? Can I get spaghetti with this? He's like, it's two starches later.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Two starches potato, you know. Oh man, let's let's pivot to just how amazing everything Tony Shaloub does in this movie. Like, I look, I don't want to say he's underappreciated because he won a lot of Emmys for Monk and he's been in everything he's done. I mean, uh, he had a very understated but great role in Gattaca as the German. But this movie, man, he gets to do his whole range. Like he's funny, he's intense, he's dramatic, you know. So, and he's doing all with a ridiculous Italian accent, too. But you totally buy it though. Like he's just got that kind of uh can we say swarthy in 2024 type of thing? Or is this coming out in 2025?

SPEAKER_02 15:11

I think swarthy is fine.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Okay, well, if it's coming out in 2025, I'm definitely saying swarthy. We can get away with it then. Yeah, absolutely. Trump's in office, we're good. I was gonna say, but 2024, I'm not chancing it. But no, but you know what I mean, though. He kind of he but like so I don't think Tony Shaloub is Italian per se, but I mean he might be, I don't know. But like he you totally buy it. And yeah, he's he I and he compliments everything Tucci does so well, like naming them like Primo, uh Primo and Segundo, you know, first and second, and them being like the same sides, uh the same sides, excuse me, different sides of the same coin. Uh it's amazing how well they worked to uh worked off each other. Did they did they ever work to again together?

SPEAKER_02 15:51

They really should have if they haven't, but I I mean I don't I'm not sure. I'd be willing to bet they may have.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Yeah, I mean like their chemistry was just too good. You think you would want to put them in another feature? Like I know this one was kind of limited with how it came out, but like once it got in front of the right people and they could see you know what Tucci could do, acting, directing, and writing, you know, like I wouldn't say he like destroys it in any one of those, but to do all three this well for his first time, I mean it's it does kind of make you wonder like what like what I mean because he's still a very accomplished character actor. He's like the character actor, I would say, you know, he can do pretty much anything, but the uh it's just kind of interesting that this that this didn't open up uh more for him, or if it did open up more for him, that he chose not to go that way.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Yeah, the internet says this is the only two movie that the two of them did together, but I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

That's a shame. Yeah, just such great chemistry. Like you really bought they were brothers. You know what I mean? Because like sometimes like the relationships are hard to believe in movies just because of casting, you know. And it's like, okay, do we want to like like if you had to do a movie, like imagine if you had to do a movie with like Brock Lesnar or something, you had to cast a guy who looked like his brother, you're probably not getting a good actor. You know what I mean? Because you're not gonna get a guy who looks like a giant beast like Brock Lesnar. You know what I mean? So you like when you have to make those decisions, like do we want them to look not that Brock Lesnar's a good actor. That's a terrible example. Arnold Schwarzenegger, imagine if you had to cast Arnold Schwarzenegger's brother. Where else are you gonna find a gigantic Austrian muscle-bound guy? It's just not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Oh, Danny DeVito, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah, yeah, there you go. You're right. They cracked the code. But no, but but they so you always have to wonder, it's like, do you go do you go for the chemistry? Do you go for the look? You know, do you just go for the sheer acting ability, you know? Like, because you've seen this in other movies where one actor just like completely blows the other away, and you just didn't have this in here. Like they had like the same kind of energy, the same kind of presence, and you really believed they were brothers. It was that that was just very well done. You know, I have two brothers myself, and you know, like having that kind of family energy on the screen. Like, we never like fight like Italians or anything like that, you know what I mean? But it was it was it was like that, like you know, you already said it, Cliff, you know, that scene at the end with the omelet where they put their arms around each other. That that anyone who has a brother that you've been through hard times with or you fought with, yeah, or anything like that, you've all had that moment, whether or not it was over breakfast or over, you know, over a pint or over something, you know, like it's it's been there. And for other guys out there, if you don't have brothers, you've almost certainly had a moment like that with like your best friend, you know. And that that was a that was a very real and you know what too, actually. So if we are looking at 2025, maybe we can't get a little controversial here. It's a very masculine moment in this movie. It's actually a very masculine movie in many respects, too, but we could probably talk about that a bit more later. But you wouldn't suspect that when a movie about that's ostensibly all about cooking. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah, and owning a restaurant, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yeah, exactly. You know, but like it does bring up that kind of those those issues of um masculinity vis-a-vis, like brothers, like his respect for his older brother and stuff like that. So a lot of that's steeped in more of the Italian ideals of it. I mean, because what's the one thing they're always asking Stanley Tucci, Mini Dry, like, oh, when are you gonna get married? When are you gonna get married? How are you gonna get engaged? Things like that, you know. So it's I thought those touches were nice for the world building, and it really helped underscore some some of the drama, you know. Like it just made it feel like we're really watching real people, you know. I mean, like we woke up on this day with them, they've had their whole life in Italy, they've already opened the restaurant, the restaurant's already struggling, you know, and this is we get plopped in right here, and it feels like it was very organic.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Um it's it's a it's it's it's a hard movie to hate on. Like it's just a hard movie to find something to, in my opinion, to dislike. I agree. It's just it's just like because it's just everything's done so well. Um, it hits on so many levels. Like it's a cooking movie, it's it's but it's also about brothers. It's it's also about really good actors just fucking chewing scenery around each other, which is a lot of fun to watch. You know, plus it's got a really great soundtrack. Um which you know, I mean, I I quite enjoyed the soundtrack. I thought it really put you in that movie and and put you where you needed to be right away and kept going.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah, and it remark in a remarkably limited fashion, too. Because like you said, I'd say like what Abe's in the movies in the restaurant, and you have a couple other minor locations, you know, but it does feel very, very contained. And that that's a that's a real strong suit, you know. It like a lot of people would look at that nowadays and say, Oh, it was to s when you see something that nowadays, you know, our cynical blockbuster buster mushed brains, we just think, oh, that's just to save money. Now, granted, this probably was to save money back then, but it also served the story better, too. You know, and I think that's that's something that we're losing in a lot of modern movies, you know, we're losing the best way to serve these otherwise simple stories. Because this is a very simple story. Two brothers who have restaurant, they have a failing restaurant and a bit of a strained relationship, and then this one thing could be the panacea to fix it all. Yep. And this one thing now for everyone who's at home. Sit down and watch what's happening. Sit down and watch what happens. You know, you don't need anything. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and you know, and you don't need a big set piece, you know, they didn't have to be like a like yeah, they have like the fight on the beach, but it's not like a big fight, you know, like there's nothing, there's no like profound moment of melodrama, you know, like the fight he has about, you know, the affair is very organic and believable. I would say the one thing that strains some of the credulity is like Ian Holm is trying to sabotage them that way, his brother has to go work for him. And it's just right okay, that's a little little much, but not terribly. But it's also too, but there's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

There's also a look like Ian Holmes catches the fact that they're having that that the two are sleeping together during dinner. He catches it. He catches her looking right at him with that look, and he knows. And he's all and you realize he's kind of always known. It's not just about the brother, it's about fucking over the other brother. Well, yeah, I think him a cuck older, whatever the hell you want to call it.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah, well, here's the thing. I'm guessing she was probably sleeping with more than just the Guido, too. Like I have a feeling this isn't the first time those two have had that. That's what their relationship struck me as. Like they kind of had to meet it's like they will like this happens all the time, but like him, you know, it's like I like that. It's like I I can forgive you know you sleeping with Lee Schreiber, my body man, but like my yeah, blinking you'll miss Leave Schreiber. Leave Schreiber, god dang stuff. I was like, even he's in this fucking movie. I know. Well, it wasn't uh so what what came first? This or mixed nuts, right? Because like I think Mixed Nuts is his very first movie.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

That's right around that same mixed nuts, same year, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, now hey, I'll come in, I'll come back for your Christmas episode.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

That's a good idea, and you could call it Figgy Pondo, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

I'm giving you guys great ideas. You still haven't done my Google Humphrey.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Why aren't you guys writing this down? Because I'm recording it.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Yeah, that's true. It's recorded. Oh my god, this is true. Actually, you might want to edit this out, but this was funny. We did an episode of Reels, and it was taking forever for the tracks to upload. And and our guess was fine, don't get me wrong, we were shooting the shit and everything. But it's like, why is this taking so long to upload? And uh Ben had changed the setting to do the transcript, so it wasn't uploading the episode, it was actually transcribing everything again. And as you know, that we've we have like four people on, all everyone's talking, so it it it was a great transcript, but it took forever for everything to load, and we were freaking out. Like, why is this not loading? You know, but it it all ended up working. It's great. Yeah, but the point is too, you can have a transcript here too if you want. I I it's one I love listening to the sound of my own voice, but reading it, that might even be better. Yeah, well, sometimes you sound a lot smarter when it's being read, too.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

I don't know why. I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

You can put it on the reels of just justice books, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Ooh, there we go. My fate one of my favorite lines in the movie is bite your teeth into the ass of life and drag it to you. Yes, that was a fucking great line. The other one that I loved is um where is it? To eat good food is to be close to God, which is uh I I sort of agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Um you know, I agree with that. I think there's two quote unquote secular ways that we can get closer to God, and I think it is very good food, and I think it's very good music. So if you have Tampini while listening to Sibelius's fifth, that's the next best thing to go into church.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Um But can we talk about the Tampini for a second? Yeah, I was gonna say, let's talk about the the big the big set piece in this is Yeah, that's basically the big moment, like you were saying.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

It wasn't a it they kind of just that's the dinner.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Yeah, the Louis so Louis Prima's supposed to show up, and here's the thing everybody's waiting for Louis Prima to show up, and the brothers won't serve until Louis Prima shows up. And Ian Holmes character doesn't really know. He keeps kind of going, Ah, he'll be here, he'll be here, he'll be here. And if of course the brothers have along with Louis Prima, have invited a bunch of other people to just kind of eat in the restaurant while Louis Prima and his people eat. So there's people there waiting to feed, and they're just a journalist too, which is yeah, and a journalist to report on it, and all the and so so they're just plying these people with alcohol and music, and so they're drunk and they're dancing, and then finally they're just fucking worn out and they're just ready to eat. And the uh Tatucci's character uh Sakundo gives up and says, Fuck it, let's eat. And there's this great shot of everybody sitting down and the camera's just over the table, pulling back, dollying back, as these people are sitting down with these smiles and expectant faces like oh god, I hope this is good, and then the meal starts, and it's it's it's just fucking fantastic cinema.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Now, have you ever had a tempano? No, no, no, I know I desperately want one though.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Did you see everything that was in there? They had eggs, meat, sauce. It was huge.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

The hard-boiled eggs stood out to me. Like this has a layer of hard boiled eggs. There was pasta in it.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

The pasta, yeah, dude. I I I Googled that man and like scrolling through Google images, that was better than porn for crying out loud, like seeing all the tempinies out there. It's like, oh my god, I want this so bad. Oh, it'd be so good. I mean, I love I love eating. Like when I go out to eat, too. Like, see, this is this is another reason I really like this movie and I wanted to pick it, is because I really do love going out to eat. I love going to a really nice restaurant. And I like eating big for this isn't a visual medium, but I'm a huge dude. I'm like 6'4, covered in muscles, very handsome, and I eat a lot. And like actually, just this morning I went out for breakfast. I couldn't decide if I wanted the steak and eggs or the eggs benedict, so I got steak and eggs benedict. And you know what? Best decision I ever made because the eggs benedict, they did a smoked salmon eggs benedict, it was delicious. But that's not my point. My point is I really like going out to restaurants, especially something like this. Is exactly the kind of restaurant I would love going to because if I'm gonna spend a lot of money, I like spending a lot of money at a nice Italian restaurant. And one of the hooks for this movie is that he's doing like super traditional Italian food, not like the Americanized Italian food. That's what that's what the asshole across the street that's burning about. Exactly, is doing the cra the crappy American spaghetti and meatballs. Exactly. So the I no pun intended, the appetite for that in '96 probably isn't where it is today. Like I think today, like if this movie took place in like the 2020s, I think it would be very hard to believe because we have all these foods. There's so many different kinds of restaurants. Yes, exactly. And it's so easy to look this kind of stuff up. You know, everyone would know what Rosotto is, like we already discussed. You know, so that is one thing I really liked about this movie, it's like how it really uses and showcases the food, you know, and it does it in a in a borderline exploitative way. Like, look how delicious this all looks. You know what I mean? And I think it was uh Ebert, hack that he is, you know, was talking about how like they use food as a language. I'm like, God, Ebert, it's like the most hack opinion you can have. The food looks good. That's what it's about. It's used as a language at the very end where he makes the omelet and splits it three ways. Yeah, you got it there. But I do think that big dinner scene, I think it was just about showcasing the food, showcasing their passion. You know, it was a release. It's you know, the whole porn.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

You know, it kind of is it's pre-Anthony Bourdain, early food porn type.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

It is, it is a little bit in in a in that very cathartic. In the best way of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In a not negative way at all, but in like there's a fine line between between like eroticism and pornography. This is more like food eroticism. I mean, we sound ridiculous right now, but you know, cultural critics I think would agree. If Roger Sprutton was still alive, he would be in my corner. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yes. Well, I mean, watch the movie and you'll see what we're talking about. It's uh it's fantastic, it's exquisite.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Oh god, I know. But you know what, too? This is before look think about this too, 96. Like this people aren't watching this in like 1080p on their home screens like the way like we all did. Well, maybe 4K now. Yeah, exactly. If you had to watch this on VHS or you caught it on, I don't know if he was either on HBO or where it would have been. You know, uh, right now though, for people who do want to watch this, because you know, people like to follow along at home, it is on Amazon Prime free. Not that stupid thing when you Google it and it's like, oh, it's on Prime, and you go there, it's like, well, technically it's Paramount Plus, so you gotta pay us. Like, oh no, I won't. Screw you, man. No, this is straight up Amazon Prime, which was good because I was you know, so it's really so you could just watch it, watch it there.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

And I love how the diners is so excellent. I love how the diners, like during that, during the whole dining experience, because of course it's it's courses, right? It's like a it's a this course, that course, so on and so forth, until finally we get to the tempini. And uh they the the diners go through these ranges of emotions while they're eating. They're they're laughing, they're rapturous, they're I think one of them even cries at one point. What you know at uh at one point one of them gets up and goes, You motherfucker, I should kill you. And that was the home food. Food is so good, I should kill you. Then they just go through these, I love it, and then tilt at the end where they're just spent, they couldn't eat another bite. All they want to do is lay down and go to sleep and think about the fact that they've had the best meal of their entire life.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

And then they whale out that uh that pig.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Yeah, and then they wheel out the pig, and everybody's like, oh my god. Now, have you guys uh now this is have you guys ever had a pig like that where it's like the whole yeah, you know what it is so good because like the skin is so thick and it's got that layer of fat when you eat that? Oh my god, man. Yeah, yeah. I I had that for the first time at a New Year's party. They had a pig's head and they cut it up and gave me some, and I was like, this is this is excellent.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Marty, how is this uh how is this for you being a vegetarian? I'm curious. What?

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Marty's a vegetarian?

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah, I mean, it still makes me hungry though. I mean, I and you know there's there's so many uh vegetarian versions of pretty much everything that was served. I mean, I'm sure there's even a tapano that could be made with just largely vegetarian, but I mean I it still makes me hungry. I mean, because I I ate meat for many years and I still have the cravings. I just, you know, I've switched over so long ago, but yeah, it that didn't affect me at all. Didn't make me I I don't get like grossed out or anything. I'm like, no, it actually looks pretty good. It's you know, it's still especially the way it's all presented. Like the movie feels like a play in a way, kind of the way it's presented. I mean, you get all these standards different courses. Yeah, you get these standard water shots, but then you also get like the cinema verite mixed in, like during the the big dinner scene where it's a lot of the handheld cam and stuff. So we're going back and forth on that. But you guys keep talking about that omelet scene, and I really like that one a lot, but the one that that really stands out to me is the scene where the brother comes back earlier and then they fall into the cooking routine, and it's just this wonder of them cooking for like it feels like three or four minutes. Yeah, and everybody sits there up high and watches them. Yeah, and it's like it reminded me of filmmaking in a way, like the precision, the the uh the craft, the importance of it. You you want to get it all exactly uh you know perfecto. It has to be exacting if you it because you only get one shot at it, right? And there's there's an art form to it. And I mean the movie to me kind of shows that there's nothing quite like the feeling you get from feeding somebody a meal you've made. There's you just don't feel cooking out of the world, you know. And like back then they didn't have all the tech we have now, but they had the food. We've always had the food, and that's like the that bonding uh force. Like even at the end when he makes the big omelet, he knows he knows the brother's gonna come back, and it's kind of like earlier, and it's like, oh yeah, here's your food, and eat. And we eat, we make up because the food is always there, we're always there, and it continues. And yeah, I I just thought it was brilliant. I I really liked this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

I one of the things I can tell, I could tell by watching the movie was that Tucci knew how to fucking cook. Like he's been in he's been in kitchens, he knows what he's doing, and I feel like Shalub either got lessons or knew how to cook, also. But I mean, when Tucci makes that omelet at the end or the eggs at the end, you can tell he knows what the fuck he's doing. And and and especially like you said, that scene where they're working together for three or four minutes. I know it's pre-arranged and that type of thing, but they really they really sold the fact that they knew what they knew were doing in a kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah, they're like it, it's what is it, like an argument, and then it's like, no, we hey we the foods the food still needs to be made, so whatever you know, it's like I say it's like filmmaking, whatever bullshit, somebody's mad for a second, something went wrong. It's like, okay, but uh when when you're done, come on back and let's finish doing the thing, you know, because the the the film is always there and the film is important.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, the tape is still rolling. Well, it's not tape anymore, it's all digital. The the memory card is still filling, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah, brilliant, brilliant movie.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Fucking Louis Prima. Uh well, hey, it's not Louis Prima's fault. Ian Home didn't call him.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

I kind of knew he wasn't coming anyway. Like, didn't you get that feeling? Like I did. Oh, immediately.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

It sure felt like it was gonna be a setup, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah, yeah. I immediately thought. Now, whether or not it was because Ian was deliberately betraying him or the guy just wasn't gonna show up because he's a big shot. But regardless, I would like whichever angle it was, I I just had a feeling, yeah, he's not showing up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Um, well, what do you think, Dylan?

SPEAKER_01 35:30

What do you give this movie? That's a very good question, Cliff. Uh, because I enjoyed it immensely. I'm a big fan, I'm actually all the actors in this too. Like, I love Mini Driver, I love Stony Stanley Tucci.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Fucking Alice and Janney's in this motherfucker.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

I I love Tony Shaloob. And actually, I've recently been re-watching Frasier, you know, and when you watch like like Kelsey Grammar, David Hyde Pierce as brothers, and yeah, like how they work together, and like in Stanley Tucci and Tony Shaloob are pretty much like at that level, like, you know, like in the having not worked that long. And it's a movie that like you it doesn't make necessarily the best decision at every point, but it doesn't make a bad decision or a wrong decision. Right, absolutely. So I'm I'm gonna give it a f a 4.5. I can't give it a perfect five, you know, because I do think like there's just a just a few little things you know that are very, very minor. You know, five has got to be perfect. Like as good as it gets is a five. Right. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, and but like I tell you what though, like this is just this is excellent, and everyone definitely should watch it. So I'm doing I'm going 4.5.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Yeah. Um I am right there with you. Um I this movie is made for$4 million. It made$12 million in the theaters and then went to home. I mean, this is a this is a s a smash from every aspect artistically, commercially. It's just it's a it's a pr it's a great movie. Um I'm right there with you. I think four and a half is where I'm gonna go to. No, I I gotta go four, I think. I'm gonna go four. But I but I mean it's so close, it's so close to being perfect, it just needed a few more things. It it just had a couple of little things that went wrong here and there that just could have been tightened. It's like Dylan said, didn't make any wrong moves, but some of the moves that it made weren't as stellar as all the other moves it made.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Yes. Like I so this is like the top 4.5 movie, and then they you know what I mean? Yeah, first among equals for 4.5. I completely agree.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

It's such a good movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yeah, there's Marty, there's more than enough moments in it that easily get it to a four-star rating for me. I mean uh and it's just it's fun, it makes you feel happy when you're watching it, right? Yeah, I I kind of sat there with a smile on my face for the whole time, just like this is this is good. You know, this is kind of upbeat. So I'm I'm gonna say four, you know, maybe just a little too long, but not that I mean, that's hardly a criticism.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

Yeah, exactly how I feel about it. It's just a few things, a few minor things here and there that don't make it perfect, which is why I can't give it a four and a half or five. But man, strong, strong, strong four. Like you said, first among equals of fours. Yes, so good.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

You know what is a nice thing about this movie too, is it's going to stay this good. Like nothing, CBI that's gonna age, you know, like the acting's always going to it's never gonna be dated. It's yeah, no one's gonna watch this movie and say, Oh, people don't act like that anymore. You know what I mean? Like, like so. Yeah, this it is really good. You know, honestly, I think where it's really just lost me is like I don't think it need to be in the 50s. You know what I mean? Like, I just feel like it would have landed better if it was more contemporary, but you know, it's such a minor quibble.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Where where it lost for me was the choice to the choice to make him cheat on mini driver. Yes, yes, but not like that. It it drew away from me rooting for him a bit. Uh it did. It came at the worst moment, too. It was the worst time to reveal. Exactly, exactly. And so that's why, and and then I I think it was just a touch too long, and I think Ian Holm could have been a little they could have made him a little bit more um sneaky about how he was going about screwing. I I was gonna say maybe dial him back one not. Right, you know, again, not much, you know, like it it still would have played great if he was a little more calm, but he gets out of his chair and screams, you motherfucker, I should kill you.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

You're like, oh shit, he's serious. You know, like holy Christ, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yeah, but yeah, like those would actually be my that that I I really think that's what keeps it from being perfect, is the affair reveal is just it's it's a bit of a fumble. So maybe that is a full-on mistake, you know what I mean? But like I get why it's in the movie. I do too. I probably would have presented it a little, a little a little differently. But yeah, where it was in the movie, because like you're getting all the momentum, like, oh, they're getting ready for the big night. This is the big night, this is what the movie's all about. And then like, I gotta look at the alcohol, and it's like, oh, what kind of funny? Yeah, yeah. Like, what's that gonna be? And then it's like sleepy with her, but oh well, that was what you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah, what are you doing, guy? Come on, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

I know.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

She that the the the that that um style and fashion really suits her. The hairstyle and the fashion really suits her.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yes, very 100%. She looked very glamorous in a very good way, yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

I'm gonna say that about the next movie. I think Michelle Michelle Pfeiffer's short hair suits her better than any other hairstyle she's worn. I would say evil clothes in general. Yes. So that moves us to Ladyhawk.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Another movie that is it the 50s or is it the 80s, right? Because Ladyhawk, like is it the 80s or?

SPEAKER_01 40:39

That's my big problem with Ladyhawk. It could have been it taken place in 85.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

That's fine. I kind of like that anachronistic of it. It like reminds me of what they would do in a knight's tale many years later. But anyway, what is Ladyhawk?

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Alright, so Ladyhawk. So here's your here's your log line, and then I'll give you the the storyline. The thief Gaston escapes the dungeon of medieval Aquila through the latrine. Soldiers are about to kill him when Navarre saves him. Navarre, traveling with his spirited hawk, plans to kill the Bishop of Aquila with the help of Gaston. Uh, let's see, storyline. Philippe Gaston, played by Matthew Broderick, a thief, escapes from the dungeon at Aquila, sparking a manhunt. He is nearly captured when Captain Etienne Navarre, played by Rechterhauer, befriends him. Navarre has been hunted by the bishop's men for two years, ever since he escaped with the Lady Isabeau, played by Michelle Pfeiffer, after whom the bishop, John Wood, played by John Wood, had lusted. Navarre and Isabeau have a curse that the bishop has placed on them that causes Navarre to be a wolf during the night and Isabeau to be a hawk during the day. Thus they can never be together. Navarre insists that Philippe help him re-enter the city to help him kill the heavily guarded bishop who is cursing.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Well, you couldn't call the movie Wolf Man, because we already have that title. Ladyhawk it is.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Ladyhawk it is. Okay, Marty, that's an amazing joke. Don't sell yourself short.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Come on. The title's a little on the nose. This is true.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I know. Well, it's actually funny too, because in the movie, you know, Navarre played by Rucker Howard, even comments on, he's like, What are you calling her Ladyhawk? He looks like her ladyhawk, you know. Even he's like, it's true.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Yeah, he goes, Lady Hawk. Oh, okay, sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah, right. Oh my goodness, though.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Where to begin on this movie that I love so start at the very beginning, it's a very good place to start.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Those credits, those opening credits, the birds flopping around, the bass popping, and it got me moving, you know. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Let me tell you. That Alan Parsons project score just punches you in the face. Just right.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Hold on a second, because it's Alan Parsons and Andrew Powell. It's not technically the Alan Parsons Project because that would uh be Eric Wolfson. But Andrew Powell did all the scoring and orchestration for the Alan Parsons Project. And they actually had an album called uh Andrew, like Andrew Powell Powell's like Performs, the Alan Parsons Project, and like it's such a huge title, it's actually a Scrabble board, is the record cover, and it's all the orchestrated versions of like the Allen Parsons Project's greatest hits. And those two have been working together for years, and the soundtrack is immediately recognizable as an Alan Parsons uh song right at right at the gate. I was I was watching this movie again with my daughter, and uh my my kids they like the Alan Parsons Project a lot because I like them a lot. We like iRobot and stuff and all the albums. I have all the albums, I list to them all the time. And as soon as that music starts, she looks at me and goes, Is this Alan Parsons? I'm like, Yes, it is. Good ear. Good ear. The only 11 year old who knows who Alan Parsons is and cares.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Oh, I guarantee, I guarantee that. I guarantee that. I if I was in Vegas, I would put money on that. Yes, absolutely. Um so yeah, so the movie starts with what with Philippe escaping the big so you get the funky titles, the pretty hawk, the Alan Parsons soundtrack, and then we go. To uh Philippe escaping from prison, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we're kind of just me claustrophobia, by the way. Oh god, I can't watch him crawl out of that like that.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Yeah, no, I I'm I'm I'm not claustrophobic in general, like I could be in an elevator, but if I had to like crawl through a small opening, that's that's what would get me. Like put me in a coffin, even like you could bury me alive, I'm not gonna freak out. I mean, like, it sucks that I'm buried alive, but I'm not having a panic attack. But if I gotta crawl through something, nah, I'm done. Yeah, I can't. Like, there's there's there's people who go with like scuba gear in caves. No, and it's like, no, no, thank you. If I want to see what's above me, if I am underwater, the only thing above me should be water, not more rocks. What the hell is wrong with people? No, yeah. So anyway, Ladyhawk.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

So anyway, Ladyhawk, yeah. So gives me gives me claustrophobia. Philippe Gaston escapes, runs to an inn. He so here's the thing: this is how we know Philippe is not a very smart hero. He did get captured once before. He escapes, he gets captured, he escapes from a prison that's supposed to be in no one escapes the dungeons of Aquila, per the bishop. Uh and I guess nobody's just ever told him before that people have escaped or whatever. He's got a good feeding scale.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

If a bishop can put a curse on you, I'm not giving him any bad.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

That's a good call.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

That's a good call.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

So then that's a good call. Uh so so then he runs along the countryside, freezing his ass off with no food, hunted by wolves. He steals a bunch of clothes, steals some money, and the first thing he does is stop at an end to have a drink and brag about what he just did. That's so true. You're fucking moron. Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Well, but of course, you know you know, you know why they do it. It's because it is a bit ham-fisted, but it is to show his growth later on. You know what I mean? Like he does go from he basically has a progression of like stupid thief to earth's while assistant to squire, to then he's almost a knight at the end of it himself.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

He's getting experience points, yeah. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

That's one thing I like about this. It has a DD feel to it for sure. It has such a DD vibe, it's such a standard fantasy medieval setting, but like in the best way possible. You know what I mean? Like it's like if you told the kid to describe like a medieval fantasy world, they would describe Lady Hawk to you. But again, I'm not saying that as a demerit, like it's not a lack of imagination. No, not at all. It's working so well with something everyone can resonate with right out the gate. Like, there's not a lot of buy-in for this fantasy world, and sometimes that is a problem in the fantasy genre, is like they have to do so much exposition, but you don't really need it in Ladyhawk. It's like, no, no, this is standard fantasy 101. Like, have you seen Excalibur? Have you seen Crawl? Have you seen any of these other movies? You know, Dragon Slayer, Beastmaster, Beastmaster, yeah, they're all like that. Yeah, exactly. And but like in the best way, yeah. So it's it's not, and I mean, and then you have a bishop that could do real magic, as I talked about earlier. This is one thing that I always amazes me. And you you see this all the time when movies choose whether they're doing it intentionally or unintentionally to use Christian mythology, right? Like the reason in DD clerics can't use swords is because Jesus says if you live by the sword, die by the sword. So they found a loophole and clerics use mace, right? And you there's a so there's actually a lot of like fantasy stuff that comes from Christianity, and it's like straight up calling this guy a bishop.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Now they don't necessarily you know, it's so it's like oh, there's cross there's there's crosses, and there's crosses, and there's there's all what up. That's one of the things I love is that one of my favorite things about this movie is the production and the art design. The movie looks fucking great. It looks fucking great. I mean, it looks great. It's a great looking movie. It's beautiful. The the HD 1080, if you watch the Blu-ray, it's gorgeous. Um, it sounds great, and they did a lot of cool artistic things, like the the bishop's clothes are very cool, the visors on the knights are really sweet, and those staff have a visor similar to mine. The way those staffs are like big crosses, but they're also like spears. You take the bottom of it off and you kill somebody with it. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Yeah, and and again, it's actually kind of to tie it back to Big Knight. These are all choices that I think serve telling the story really well. Because, like, if you went too over the top with some of this production design, it becomes distracting. You know, if you go too over the top with like the mythology and the lore, it becomes distracting.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Yeah, we don't we don't need to know how the spell worked, we don't need to know what he cast.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

I know, but the but so that was getting back to that point, though, is when he confronts him at the end, it's like apparently you know real magic, shoot it with a fireball or something. Like, what is going on? You know? It's one thing that always bugged me. It's like, yeah, he's like, you know, I am such a powerful because presumably his pat his rank is what gives him the power, or the power is what led him to his rank, but for some reason he is feared and respected and knows real magic, but only ever did it once. What is going on? Very weird. It's very weird. I've seen this movie so many times, so many times, dozens of times. I I absolutely love this movie. I adore this movie, but it is the one thing that I'm constantly thinking about. It's like, yeah, what is the magic? You know what I mean? Like, how does magic work?

SPEAKER_00 49:32

He either didn't do his meditations for the day, or he keeps missing his saving throw, or something's going on with that spell.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

He doesn't have his ingredients on him because uh Richard Donner is a really strict DM and he won't let him cast out the components, you know.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Oh no, you know what it is, Marty? So so Marty and I are both DD fiends from back in the day. I I I introduced Marty to DD in like '88, I think, or 87. You guys have known each other that long? Jesus. I've known Marty 35 years. Yeah, it's crazy. That's like my entire life. Yeah, yeah. We might as well be blood related at this point. Um that's awesome. So uh it is. It really uh he's literally my best friend. But anyway, so when early on, um I I learned DD when I was 10. Uh I stumbled across it, so that would be 1983. So by the time this movie came out, I was heavy, heavy into Dungeons and Dragons. And this one was one of the ones, like Krull that you could watch and your parents wouldn't really bitch because all the DD shit's kind of buried under levels of good filmmaking, right? Yeah, where you know, like, you know, mazes and monsters with Tom Hanks are like, see, it's the devil's work.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

And I'm like, shut up. I love mazes and monsters. I recommended that in Reals of Justice once, and like Ryan cracked up. He's like the Dungeons and Dragons movie. I'm like, yeah, that's the one. Yeah, yeah. Hey, let me tell you something about Maises and Monsters, a brief aside. First of all, Tom Hanks, the young man in that movie, yes, does an amazing job. He's actually a really good actor in that movie. That movie did a lot of harm to Dungeons and Dragons of the game. Oh, maybe that's true too. Maybe we could blame the book more than the movie. But I want to say one of the things that Maises and Monsters does very well. It has the one of the best static characters, and that's his older brother who ran away. And you never we never see him, it's never resolved. All we know is that that with him running away is what traumatized Tom Hanks, and it's a very small, powerful thing that I think about all the time. And if I were to ever tell stories, no, it's almost like a mazes and monsters is like as good as like a Tennessee Williams play. I'm not even kidding. People shouldn't need to go out there and watch it. Go out there and watch it. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong. I'm serious.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Well, maybe when we I'll tell you what, sounds like you you agree to come back on next time again and you bring mazes and monsters as your movie. I'm gonna do it. I I I I've got things to say.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Got him. You got it. Uh so wait a minute. We got the uh the Figgy Pondo Christmas episode is going to be mazes and monsters. And what was the other one we said?

SPEAKER_02 52:02

The uh uh Christmas movie, you were gonna bring mixed nuts.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Mixed nuts. There we go. We got mixed nuts and mazes and monsters. Dude, this is excellent. We've got this. But you have to call it Figgy Pondo, even if I'm not on it, just please promise me you're gonna call it Figgy Pondo. Talking we can call it talking figgy pondo. Perfect. Okay, thank you. I can live with that. I'll die happy. Like I'm Casper that goes. My business is done, I can float away.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Um, this is a the fantasy movies like that. We're since we're talking about that period, and and again, I want to say I saw this. This is 86, right, Marty?

SPEAKER_03 52:33

85. 85.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

85. So I was 12 when I saw this. I saw this in the theater. I saw it two or three times in the theater. I can't remember how many, but I I saw it more than once. I demanded to see it more than once. So envious of you. That's excellent. Um the these fantasy movies, though, like Krull, this one, Beastmaster, uh Death Stalker, Excalibur. Um, the they vary in their period detail.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Manimal.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

Uh this one, the castles and the people are relatively clean. Like compared to an Excalibur or a Death Stalker where everything's muddy and kind of dirty. Um everything's much cleaner. It it reminds me of a Knight's Tale where everything in a night's tale is a lot cleaner than it would be at that period of time. Um and I think that lends to the movie. Like you don't need to be distracted by you know a bunch of mud and dirt and people, you know, I don't know, filthy people running around and kind of you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Well, you know, you know what it is too? I think when you do when you're doing a movie like this, the cleaner things are, you can buy into like it actually helps sell the fantasy. Like a fairy tale. Yeah, it's more like a fantasy. That's exactly what I was trying to say, Cliff. Yes, that's exactly what I mean. It has that fantasy fairy tale element to it, which you know, you buy that's again one of the strengths of this movie is it's very low bar of admission. You buy in immediately, you know exactly what's going on, and they don't swerve on you or do anything stupid, you know? And it's like, no, no, no, you're at point A, you see, that's point B, that's where we're going, and away we go, and it's excellent.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Um the first off, well, there is one thing I really want to say about this movie, and then uh Marty, and I I want to definitely want to hear what you think about it too. But uh I want to say that the horse hoof foley in this movie is fucking top tier. It's some of the best horse hoof foley I've ever heard in my entire fucking life. This shit should be Oscar-nominated horse hoof fully. There you go. Because look, these horses rode over hard land, soft land, cobblestone, uh slick stone, and every one of them sounded differently. Every fucking one of them. I mean, it's just a guy banging coconuts. Of course it was, but he banged the fuck out of those coconuts and did an amazing job.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Like I was gonna say, this movie and all those others, they don't exist without Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Well, maybe as far as that look goes, you know, even the foggy woods, and we're riding on the horse, and King Arthur, and the next thing you know, we got Excalibur, etc. I feel like it's an argument with the Pantheon anyway.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

You know what? I have no problem throwing in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I mean, you guys want to talk about a big movie you should avoid talking about. That might be it, because that one is Oh god, dude. Not only is it a perfect movie, like if someone said it's the best movie, not even like the best comedy, if someone just said that's the best movie, I probably wouldn't fight them very hard on it. I'd be like, Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. You've got an argument. Like, you're not crazy. You're not gonna get committed for saying that Monty Python, the Holy Grail is the best movie. So I love how we've been talking about so many other movies than lady.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

That happens. This one, this one in particular reminds me, it echoes, it so echoes a night's tale. The anachronistic music, um cleanliness of it, the artistic design.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Uh it's just it was. And you had real stars too. These other movies that we talked about, they these guys. I mean, Matthew Brodrick was on the come up. Uh, Rugger Hauer, he usually played bad guys. Actually, he was originally going to be the bad guy in this, and he said he wouldn't do it unless he could be uh Never, you know, and it but of course they still put him as the Black Knight anyway. But yeah, and um and then actually Rugger Howard would later go on to play uh in the Merlin series, I believe. He played uh Uther, uh Arthur's father. You know what I mean? So like he yeah, so he like which I definitely think is a callback uh to Ladyhawk if you look at some like I think he's playing Navarre in that. Like, I don't know when the last time you guys watched the Merlin miniseries, it's really good. Like, man, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

The one with Sam Sam with Sam Neil, yeah. Sam Neal? Okay, yeah, been a minute.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Yeah, um I remember well, you know what? I remember there was such they made such a big deal of it when it was coming out on TV. I wanted to watch it so bad. Uh so anyway, back to Ladyhawk though. Uh and then you have like Michelle Pfeiffer, you know, and so you actually have like really recognizable stars, and I don't think you really had uh a movie like that, a fantasy movie like this that that had that kind of star power. Or at least then the people that would go on to be with bigger stars from this too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

To me, it was also kid accessible. Like I mean, you you had Excalibur, which had some big stars in it, but that's not fucking kid accessible. That's right, no. This is PG 13. This is PG-13 and and and a and a pretty mellow PG-13 in my opinion. What do I know?

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Yeah, there's something about like I think kids get like someone being stabbed with a sword on a movie more than like getting blown away by like a shotgun. Exactly. You know what I mean? You know, it's like like their action figures have swords and things like that. You know what I mean? Like, because I uh God, I don't know how old I was the first time I saw this. I was probably maybe about 10 or so. And that's about the right time to catch up on that. Yeah, and yeah, it is, and it just it just resonates with you right after that, and you just realize like, you know, in fact, oh it's Michelle Pniper's like the most beautiful woman for the next 10 years of your life. Uh then like well, you've all seen those memes where it's like uh every every boy turns forward and picks one of these as his personality types, you know, and it's like dinosaurs, trucks, and everything. But I think you need knights. Yes, I think you need like knights in fantasy combat in there. Oh, because especially in the 80s. That was a oh yeah, exactly. Because that that was like me as a kid, it's just like I loved I loved all that fantasy stuff, even though I never really liked reading fantasy books, with the notable exception of Sanderson's Mistborn that I would read much, much, much later in my life. Yeah, no, see, like I just never got into fantasy uh as as books, but as far as TV shows, uh action figures, toys, Dungeons and Dragons, video games, I mean anything else that takes place like in the fantasy show, like playing Boulders Gate 3. I mean that's just so much fun. You know, and a lot of that uh, you know, like that vision and what it means to me came from like uh being exposed to Ladyhawk at such a young age and just realizing like how much uh fun and cool and action and you could just blend all these things together. I kind of wish Ladyhawk had more magic in it, even though the whole premise is like the shape shifting. You know, so it is a very low magic, kind of like Conan, actually, which is like I think as a double feature, Conan and Ladyhawk actually work really well together because I think Conan does have a lot of that low magic vibe, even though magic's clearly in there. But everyone is clean, but they kind of live in a in a in a more uh desolate like like like Conan really feels like a world that's moved on, and Ladyhawk feels like a world that's thriving, you know what I mean? So but I feel like aesthetically they would complement each other and they accomplish those same goals of again low buy-in fantasy where you're really just along to enjoy the ride. And you know, you got Arnie and Conan, you know, you got Rugger Hower and Ladyhawk. I mean, that's a good one-two punch.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

Yeah, I I I can agree with that. Um Rutger Hower's two-shot crossbow. Um, sick! I I I I created my own homebrew rules in DD for that. Oh, hell yeah, man. Oh, you get it yeah, you can have a two-shot crossbow. It takes you twice as long to reload. But yeah, you can have a two-shot crossbow.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

But you can take a feat to make reloading take just as long as reloading one crossbow now.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Oh, well, there were no feats in in two, in one in first edition.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Uh, you see, I uh I I cut my teeth on third edition of 3.5. Oh, okay. And you know what, too? Those are good editions. I uh you know, I am an apologist for fourth edition as well. I understand. No, hold on. Let me let me talk. I know it's your show, but let me talk.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

Power card nonsense.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

No, no, stop that. That was before Overwatch and all that. Oh, the power cards were in 3.5, man. There was like the the like the book of Martial, it was not Martial Power. There was a book out there where there were three prestige classes that had power cards, and that was in 3.5.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Yeah, but that was three prestige classes out of like, I mean, this is power cards for everything in four. Go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

My point is for fourth edition, look, when it first came out, yes, it was it came out woefully incomplete.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

Kids, I'm just glad you're playing DD.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

That's all I want to say. Yeah, well, see, thank you. Actually, I started a fourth edition game for my kids because I've systematically started collecting every fourth edition book, and I almost have them all. It's a pretty impressive collection because no one wants them anymore. And it was funny, I was at a comic shop. And I was this is true, this is true. I was at a comic shop before uh I was actually I was taking my date, we were going to the uh orchestra, but there was a comic book shop across from. I said, Oh, we have to go there because they might have DD books. You know, so we go in there, we're dressed up really nice, and they have the one compilation that I didn't have, and they want like 60 bucks for it. And I said, You couldn't give this away when fourth edition was popular, but now you have a bunch of nerds out there like me trying to be completionists, and you're jacking up the price. This is robbery. So he sold it to me for 40.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

Have you heard of uh Knights of the Dinner Table, the comic book? Uh no, I haven't. So Knights of the Dinner Table, it's it's I think it's into its Oh Knights of the Dinner Table.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

Yes, I thought you said Knights at yeah, no, no, no. My son, I think, has read that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

It's fantastic. So they they play they play DD, but of course, due to copyright issues, they can't call it that. So they call it Hackmaster.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

And it's got these wild rules, like it's it's always got these wild rules, like, oh, roundhouse groin kick. If you're a dwarf, you have the special ability and you can do a roundhouse groin kick plus five to anything bigger than you, right? Kick them right in the nuts, and then of course they roll to incapacitate and all this stuff. And uh they finally released that as an actual rule set, and it's it's fucking hilarious because it's just it's rules upon rules, it's one of those rules upon rules upon rules, kind of like a Joe game, but it's actually playable. Uh and it's hilarious. Anyway, sorry, again, deviating. Marty, what do you what about you? We've we've been we've been hogging this.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

Call us back on track for Ladyhaw.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Please. Talking about the dinner table. I thought we were talking about the big knight again.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

No, we're talking about the other big night, but this time with the K.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

See, that they that's what I was gonna say. They could have called this movie Big Knight with the K, like you said.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

I don't know why that got me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Okay, so what does this movie have in common with Big Knight? Random people on fire. Both movies featured a random person on fire. True.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

I would have gone with economy of storytelling, but let's go with two guys on fire.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

That is bizarre, right? Wasn't the one cook as there is Stanley Tucci's driving by, and then the guy's on fire, and then they suddenly see him and they act like nothing's happening and they wave at him.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

Yeah, well, and you know what? Actually, you know what? That that scene also reinforces my 4.5 rating because I don't think he needed it. I think we understood that Ian Holmes was already smarmy and not necessarily a good guy. But like the thing is they didn't commit to him being like mobbed up either, though. You know, so like I feel like they they stretched that a bit too far. Now it because he's Italian, they could have said he was part of the mob, you know. That would have been and we would have bought it, right? Like, that's not hard to believe. Like Italian restaurant that's a front for the mob. Uh yeah, I'd never seen that before.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:07

Yeah, I'm glad they didn't do that stereotype, though. That was that was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

They have yeah, I know, but they they tried to go as close to it as they could, and I think it was a reach, a reach too far, their reach exceeded their grasp. Not unlike in Ladyhawk. Ladyhawk. I got nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

Ladyhawk, which features a proto-Ferris Bueller.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Is this before Ferris Bueller?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Yeah, so we get Roger walking around, kind of talking to himself, making his little remarks in his faces, and I'm like, oh, this is like an audition tape for Ferris. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

That's a good that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

He doesn't break the fourth wall, but it's still kind of there.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Uh apparently he does talk to himself a lot in this movie, which is pretty actually it's pretty great. Like, and who knew that was one of Matthew Broderick's strengths before this, too. Like, I you know, because now that that is kind of like his thing and really typified by Ferris Bueller, naturally.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

Yeah, War Games doesn't really give us a hint of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

So was War Games before this? Yeah. You know, can I say War Games is another movie I love? And the reason I probably didn't fall in love with Michelle Pfeiffer is because I was in love with Matthew Broderick's girlfriend from War Games, probably. I had a huge crush on her. Oh, Alice. The Bradley Sheedy. Yeah, okay, there it is.

unknown 1:05:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:23

Anyway. Again, that's another movie I saw in the theater as a kid. Oh man. Yeah, I would I see Ladyhawk is, you know, sometimes like you have these like snobs out there, like maybe even snobs who might even be on my podcast, but I I won't name their names. You know, let's just call them B. Haslar. I know that's too obvious. Let's say Ben H. Ben H. There you go. You know, they they they they go to the theaters like, oh, you gotta see this in the theater if you can and do that. And nine times out of ten, I'm like at pass. You know, though I have seen a couple Miyazaki movies when they've returned to the theaters, but I would go see Lady Hawk in the theater. Oh, I would go see Lady In a Heartbeat, I would. I mean, actually, if I could if I may, I just Of pivot a bit. Uh, one of the reasons I picked this movie uh is because it's very personal to me. Because it was actually one of my grandmother's favorite movies. She loved watching Lady Hawk. So, like I've said I've seen this movie like a dozen times. At least four of them were with my Nana. Nana Hawk. Yeah, I know. And she she really helped shape a lot of my taste in movies because she had an eclectic taste in movies. And she loved watching movies and she loved talking about movies. And actually, she took us. So I mentioned As Goods It Gets earlier. This is a great story. She actually, she and my aunt took my older brother and I to see As Good as It Gets in the Theater. And for those of you keeping track at home with the math, I'm not as old as Cliff and Marty. So, like that was As Goods It Gets came out in like 96 or 97. I was like 10. Could you imagine being a 10-year? And it was late too. It was like a nine o'clock showing like on a Wednesday. It was like a school night.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

And and she told us that it was one of the best movies she's ever saw. And like we're kids, and we're like, what? And then when you're older, then when you're older and you're watching, you could appreciate the humor, the drama, just the phenomenal acting in that movie. It's like, oh my god, Nana was right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

You know, I saw my Titanic at the drive-in. Oh wow. That was the long night.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

That's a double feature. Holy cow.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

Yeah, my mom took me to a lot of a lot of movies I shouldn't have been in when I was a kid. She took me to see Kramer versus Kramer. Wow, okay. I think I was six or seven.

unknown 1:07:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

And I was just like, I like I was just like, what is this? What is going on? What is this kid? You know, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:28

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, but Nana really loved Ladyhawk. She had a soft spot for like kind of like fantasy movies and like horror movies and stuff. And like, but her real favorite genre is probably more like those suspense thriller kind of movies as well. But you know, but whenever this was on, or like the they she oh, we gotta watch uh Ladyhawk, you know, and that was that's like some of my best best memories is watching Ladyhawk with my nana. The last time we did it too memory. Actually, you know what? Tying it back to uh big night with eating good food. The last time we watched it together, she made this gigantic like Italian sub sandwich, right? It was this huge loaf of bread that she hollowed out and filled with meat and cheese and baked it. And that's what we ate when we watched it. And that was oh, it was I remember that day very fondly. It was a good day, you know. And you never you never know like when they these awesome memories. Yeah, the memories that are gonna stick in real life. Yeah, that it's gonna stick. You know, if you ask me back then, it's like, oh, I'll be I'll watch a million more movies with Nana after this one, you know. And of course, obviously we watched a handful here and there, but that was like the last really amazing time. And of course, it's watching Lady Hawk, a movie that we had already seen like three or four times before. You know, so that's really why I picked this, you know, to really honor my Nana and her love and her love of movies, because I mean my whole family does love movies, don't get me wrong. Like my mom, like she intro introduced us to uh Alfred Hitchcock at a very young age. My father loves hackers, you know what I mean? So like I come from a family that just absolutely loves watching movies, and everyone has like their own tastes and own styles that they bring to it. So this so I want to take this opportunity to honor my nana's amazing taste in movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:09

And we are happy to have you on to honor your nana's amazing taste.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

Now let's talk about what's wrong with this piece of shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

No, oh god, there's so much wrong though. There are it's not it's not perfect. Look, I hey cards on the table. I'm giving this a perfect five. I know it's not a perfect five. I just refuse to be objective about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

I hear you. I hear you. No, I hear you. Um for me, for me, that it's in getting into that just for a second. That there's there's several uh day-for-night scenes that don't work very well. Um there's there's several mat shots that are very dated. Uh, in particular, where uh uh guest uh Philippe is trying to pull her up from the the ledge on the tower, and you look and you see the bag, it's like, oh, it's not good, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:53

Um it's the opposite problem that Big Knight had. Like, like unfortunately, Ladyhawk is really starting to show its. And it's not better served. And whereas Big Knight is better served with the HD transfer. Ladyhawk is not. Ladyhawk is pretty much meant to be watched at 3 p.m. on HBO on like Saturday. You know, that's like prime way to watch it. That said, though, like I said, I'd go see it in the theater in a heartbeat, don't get me wrong, but like it is showing its age.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:21

Well, that screen, I mean, that you know, I if you know about filmmaking and and I mean filmmakers back. Which I don't, especially in the 80s or the 70s or the 60s, when you're doing those kind of effects, you're relying because the screen absorbs a certain amount of light thrown at it before it bounces it back. And and so you're relying on some of that bounce to give you a bit of a fuzziness or at least make the image sort of sell to the audience, which is why a lot of times when you get these digital transfers, VHS kind of worked, but when you get these digital transfers and they're super clean, they really start to show their age and pop. You're like, oh, it doesn't look as you know, it's like watching the mummy, right? You watch the mummy on the screen when it first came out, you're like, oh, those effects are fucking great. Now you watch it on blue, you're like, ooh, yikes.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Yeah, I know. Well, and I think Richard Donner was in a better position to understand some of this because he had that really good TV background moving into movies, which if I'm speaking out of turn because you guys are actual directors, but like that that wasn't like he was the one who made it that like that was like the biggest leap, right? Like him going from TV to movies, like no one had really done it as effectively as he did, right? Maybe I'm again maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but that's my understanding of it having listened to fellow co-host Ryan Luis Rodriguez talk about Richard Donner so much and how much he loves him. And yeah, he's very he's very talented, so I think he had an idea of the thing. Well, oh god, Lethal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it is kind of funny too. Like, you look, like you could take three movies that he did. You could look at Superman, Ladyhawk, Lethal Weapon. I I would challenge you to point out how that's the same director. You know, I'm sure there's little clues and things here or there, but like the man had a talent for composition and pulling together and serving the story really, really well, even if it's weak. Like, I don't know if you guys have watched Scrooge recently. Scrooge is freaking out.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:10

Oh, we did an episode on it. Oh man. Yeah, we did a whole episode on Scrooge.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

I don't know, I don't know how much of that was Donner's fault. Like, I think he needs good material. Like, I think he, you know what I mean? Like he rises from the level of the material.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

You're a Scrooge hater? That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

Oh, dude, I I couldn't stand it because we watched it for reels. We had our very good friend Vern from Cinema Recall podcast. And you guys should have the Vern on, Cinema Recall. He's great, he loves movies, super nice guy, and he doesn't talk nearly as much as me, so you actually might get a word in, Marty, instead of me talking over you this whole time. But no, we did Scrooge on the show, and it's just like like this might be I mean, it's like sometimes we when the four of us are talking, I used to say uh Maynard Bangs, Ben Hasl, Ryan Louise Rodriguez, myself are talking like what's the worst movie we've ever done on Reels? Uh Scrooge gets floated up there sometimes, and it's hard to disagree. Yeah. We've done a lot of bad movies, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

I mean, come on, Money brought you neighbors. Wow. I mean, okay, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:06

Oh man, a neighbors was really bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

It all comes from Saturday Night Live, people.

unknown 1:13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

Oh, that's a good point, too. It is a good point. Well, you know, I think we just need to understand as a culture that Bill Murray is really, really good in Ghostbusters and not much else. And I'm sorry, I'm gonna be the one to say it. And I love Bill Murray. Ghostbusters is my favorite movie of all time. No, Caddyshack is overrated. You don't understand because you're a proto boomer. You're too old now. You're like, I know how that was really funny back in the day, but you have to understand it's aged like dog shit, man. Like, I'm sorry, Caddyshack is just not what people think it is. Okay, now that we're not friends anymore and I'm in trouble.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:47

Um how dare you, sir? And secondly, let me move on to why this movie is. Now I'm really gonna dig into why this movie is. Yeah, please. Okay, here we go. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

Uh Caddyshack, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

Yeah, no shit, right? In all seriousness, it it does seem to kind of take a left turn about, I don't know, about 60% into the movie. It kind of go it kind of turns Philippe into this sort of uh go-between for the romance, but also suddenly we're at the drunk monk and we're trying to figure out how to break the curse, but Navarre doesn't want anything to do with it, and all and but then suddenly, you know, it just it sort of gets a little muddy there.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

Uh yeah, it does, it gets a little busy because even though I was saying like you don't need a lot of exposition to believe the world we're in, you do have to explain the curse, right? You do have to explain the curse. Right, yeah. Yeah, yes, exactly. Like, so you do need those things for the story, and that's where the drunk monk comes in, though realistically, I think it would have been better served having uh Navarre just talk to um I'm gonna say Matthew Roger, his name just escaped me in the movie. Uh Philippe, or Philippe rather, and like like having him talk and having him explain it, you know, and then you know, then Michelle Pfeiffer explaining it, you know, like so he gets like the story from two different perspectives. It would have been very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

Yeah, I also I also had the idea of just of just inserting the monk into the movie as the as the second of Navarre or somebody else. Yeah, he's already there, so he's explaining to the kid what's going on, and we're getting it, or at least they're having these arguments about you can't fix it, you know, whatever. It would have changed a little bit of him betraying Navarre. I don't think Navarre would hang out with him after he betrayed him like that, but that's a small loss, I think, to kind of insert somebody who can sort of expositionize the movie without having to do what it did.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:34

Yeah, it kind of keeps things moving and sprightly. Exactly. Yeah, it because it's it's two hours, it's a little too long. It is just a smidge too long, and it just becomes like very obvious where things are going. Like, I don't feel the eclipse reveal lands particularly strongly as like the twist, you know, like a day without a night, a night without a day, and it's like, eh, okay, I guess, you know. I think it's like it works. I think 12, it works great. Like, oh yeah, when I was in kid pop, I was like, oh my god, a solar eclipse, of course. Of course, you know, but like yeah, but like I would I would see maybe a more sophisticated viewer being like, eh, yeah, I get it. You know, it's like it's not bad. It works, it's not an ass pull or anything like that, so I respect that. But it it if it just doesn't feel it feels like soft. I don't know. I there's I can't I don't have the right words to describe it, though. You know, it's just like, oh, okay, that's nice. You know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:27

Marty, what about you? So I really liked the HD transfer of it. I thought it really was crisp and it popped. I know there's a few moments like you're talking about, like towards the end where I was like, oh, they didn't undercrank that footage, so they get this weird stroby slow motion thing where they're rolling around towards the end. Just little little technical things like that. But by and large, I thought it looked really sharp for a 39-year-old movie or 40 by the time you're looking at this. Wow. Um let's see.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:59

I mean, hey, maybe 60, who knows? That's true. Marty still looks 23. Cliff and I are oldly cranky and arguing about DD somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:08

Tell the story in great pictures of the old TV shows. It almost was Kurt Russell in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:19

He would have been great. I agree, he would have been fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:26

So then it became a only problem is like I Kurt Russell couldn't carry the pain that Rugger Hauer has. Like Rugger Hauer, you could tell he's wounded this whole time. You know, like he does because he does feel like he failed. Do you think I don't think he would have gotten like a more snake pliskin' type of of character for the thing? He would have been more wolf-like. He couldn't help himself. He couldn't help himself. Like he just looks too clean-cut like the hero. He looks too sharp. You know, it's like it would have been like Val Kilmer. You know what I mean? Like those those kind of guys, it's just hard for them to play the wounded man. You know, like Mel Gibson could have done it. Well, I'm not gonna bring up Willow. But but here's the thing. Like I like Mel Gibson might have been able to do it, except like he just he wouldn't have had like the presence because he's kind of short. You know what I mean? So I think you needed Rudger Hauer because he had the one-two punch of he was he had the presence, you know, he had the blonde hair, the piercing eyes, but he did look like he was he was burdened by it. And that would have been very hard for a lot of contemporary leading men of that time to catch. Like Tom Cruise couldn't have done that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

No, Tom Cruise was not the right pick, but you're you bring up an interesting point with uh bringing in Mel Gibson as well, because both Mel Gibson and Kurt Russell had that poofy 80s hair, and they would have felt more wolf-like. We wouldn't have been as compassionate. That's true. Yeah, it's a great guy's blonde, and so is Michelle. So you end up with two wands, and instead you would have had like the wolfy and the I don't know. I still like the choice, but thinking about it, it's like a different movie, but that would be interesting to see anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:03

Yeah, that's true. And like they wouldn't have been bad, but I just I think it wouldn't have hit the same, yeah. And I well, and I think the character's just different. I think Navarre is so much Rudger Hauer, like you would we would we would be watching a different Navarre if it was a different actor.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:18

Yeah, you don't care about him as much as the other is a different movie if you change the actor.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

It's a different it's a different movie, and it would still work, don't get me wrong, like you could make Navarre like a really cocky cockshore kind of guy, like Mel Gibson would have played that perfectly. Like he was really angry, like Mel Gibson could play a very angry Navarre, but like Navarre wasn't angry though, like he was kind of borderline defeated, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:39

You could you could bring in hand Harrison Ford and have him do his hand solo. Oh god, cocky, but kind of you know, arrogant, but sort of, you know. Harrison Ford should have played the bishop and shot fireballs.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

Oh, that would be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:52

Tom Cruise could have played the bird. There you go. Anyway, so one of my uh closing thoughts here for this is uh this movie is to me, it's just very comfortable and breezy feeling. And I think the reason it has that is because it was shot in 1984, and there's just something about they captured that really light essence of that time period in this movie. Uh a few weeks ago, months ago, actually, by now, we talked about another 80s movie called Fantasy.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:28

Maybe years ago by now.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

It could be years. I'm just referring to the release date, of course. But uh, naturally. Uh I'm only speaking to people listening this week, but you're absolutely right. It could be years from now. When Lady Hawk was remade, but who knows? Uh so Shut up. Don't put it out there, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:45

Don't put it out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:46

So there was this other movie called Fandango from the 80s that I had to watch for the show. And that one, to me, it gave me all the vibes of the 80s of waiting in a doctor's waiting room, kind of, oh my god, this is everything I loathed about that decade. But then you get this movie, and this is like playing with your toys outside in the 80s kind of vibe. Oh, that's a good way to see. It's very light. Did somebody bust out the E-Man toys or something? Because I feel like we're in that vibe of it. And I think it's because '84 was kind of like the pinnacle year of the 80s, and this movie just soaked up that vibe like a sponge, and that's why I have to give it a three instead of a two and a half, because it really does more than anything capture that kind of innocent feeling of that mid-80s time period.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

I I I love it. Um, I I absolutely love the love the movie. Um it's it's not super aging super well. Um it's got some pacing problems and some technical problems. Again, the day for night. I've seen recently on some stuff we watched, I've seen some really good day for night done. And so I just come to this and like, it's just it's a little bit too bright. Um but I again it's you know, the 12-year-old to me is like, this is the greatest thing ever. Um it's one of those. So for nostalgia, if I'm if I'm grading it on nostalgia, it's a five. It's a nostalgia five all the way. But if I'm grading it on like, you know, technical, all this type of stuff, and and and really kind of being critical about it, it's a it's a three. Um, but it's a it's a very strong three and almost a three and a half.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:35

You know, I mean, Cliff, if I I'll just jump right in there with my rating because everything you said is almost verbatim, what I would say. I said earlier, like, look, I'm not gonna be objective. This is a five-star movie for me. Right. And in many ways, in many ways it is, but being objective, this is like a quintessential three-star movie, though. You know, because when you think three-star, you think like enjoyable, good stays in its lane. You know, all those. We'll watch it again.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:00

Looks good, yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

Exactly. You know, and actually, usually when we get to two and a half stars is where it's like, I won't re-watch again. You know what I mean? So anything you're re-watching again at least has a shot at being three-stars. That's exactly it. You know, like so that's kind of that's where I am for star ratings. You know, so I think, yes, objectively, this is a very solid three-star. Like, like you could show this in like what's a f three-star movie in film school, you could put on Ladyhawk, and I think everyone would get it. Yep. You know what I mean? Where it's like, what's a five-star movie, and you put on like Hunt for Three October, and everyone would get that too. Yeah, you know what I mean? But yeah, so nostalgia five for me because I love my Nana. I I just enjoy watching this movie so much, and kind of like Big Night, you know, it it has that comfy vibe and aesthetic from that time period. It came out. And these are both good movies. Like, you're the you don't make a movie night around these, but like you put them on like at three o'clock, you know. You put the like the like there's like the these are like the warm-up movies before your big movie night, you know. So again, nostalgia five for me, which isn't a real rating, but yes, objectively, you gotta you gotta give it a three. Gotta give it a three. You know, but in the in the for the for the best reasons possible. So that's so I I I'm I like this. I I love that Cliff and I basically agree on everything, but we still find things to argue about. This is fantastic. It's at the beginning of a beautiful friendship. And if they ever do remake Lady Hawk, Cliff, I'm flying out to wherever you live. We're going into the theater together, holding hands, taking a big breath, walking in, and we'll bear it together if they ever do it. Because you know it's gonna be terrible. Jesus, it's gonna be sick. It's gonna be awful. And then we'll do a whole podcast about it. It'll be great.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:39

Yeah, and the podcast will be called Thank You for Ruining My Childhood.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:43

Yeah, right. You know, and I I usually don't like those arguments where it's like, oh, my childhood, this time, the other thing. But like I'm hopping on that bandwagon if they touch Ladyhawk. It's like I'm going full doom and gloom. We're I'm on board. Exactly. You you guys take Star Wars. I don't care about that. But if you're taking Ladyhawk, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:00

Next week on Talking Ladyhawk.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:05

Dylan, man, thanks so much for coming on. It was a it was an absolute blast to have me on. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:12

And I I love listening to your guys' show. I love because you guys bring such a technical eye to things being directors. I love the movies you guys have made. You know, like everyone needs to go out and watch those. And I want to Cliff, I love you, but I'm gonna give a little extra love to Marty. When Reels of Justice started, Marty was such an early adapter, an early fan of ours, like right out the gate, and was always very supportive, always commenting and retweeting. And that support counted for a lot, Marty. Oh, when we were really getting started. And you're definitely one of our favorite people. We love having you on the show. And Cliff, we love having you on now as well. We love it, like the both of you working together, you know. It's just it's fantastic. And you guys, you guys are great dudes.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:55

That Twilight teardown was so much fun. Oh, that was excellent. I have not had that much fun in so long. And uh, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:04

I I you know what I had that much fun just now. I had that much fun just now talking with you because like Cliff and I were like, we we line up, like we get it. Yeah, you know what I mean? So that's that's great. But yeah, so love Marty, love Cliff, love you guys. It's such an honor to be on here and helping you guys out, you coming on and talking, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:22

And letting me talk too, because you know I never shut up. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So and we'll have you on again. I mean, like I said, we'll do a we'll see if we can't do that. Oh shit. That it might be fun to do a talking figgy bondo. That actually might be pretty hilarious. Yes, and uh and again, you could you you bring my mazes and monsters back, and we'll do that one. Maises and monsters and mixed nuts, man. That's crazy. I love it. There you go. You've already got two shows cast out of this market. I know, that's hilarious. Um, well, again, thanks so much for coming on. It was it's a real pleasure. Uh, do you have anything you want to plug before we get out of here?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:51

Well, everyone can find us on uh Reels of Justice on all the major social media platforms and the podcast apps, you know. It's literally just Reels of Justice. You know, I'm gonna throw a little twist out there though. Uh go to Good Pods, find us on Good Pods because for some reason we've been ranking in whatever their algorithm is. So if we get like two or three people listening to this, if you go give us a thumbs up on Good Pods, that might be enough to get us into like the top five movie history podcasts because usually we're in the top ten. So yeah, so I'll throw that out there to uh to everyone out there, yeah. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:25

Absolutely. Um you you mentioned the movies that we made. Uh we are about to very soon this month announce we've uh we have the distributor for the trilogy that we made. And so awesome!

SPEAKER_01 1:27:38

I know because last time I talked to Marty, he was really hoping that was going to be happening. That sounds fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:43

And we can we can say that now. We've you know everything's signed. And so they'll that so the first wave of that release comes out. It's a worldwide deal, so it'll show up in English speaking countries. But the first wave comes in November and then the next one's in December or January, sorry, January. January. So we'll be we'll be tweeting all that stuff and letting everybody know. Uh in fact, this episode probably has the audio trailer for Love Song of William H.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:05

Oh, yeah, the movies have been out for months by the time this comes out. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:09

That's true. The movies have already been out. What am I saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:12

Yeah, that's true. And um, when Love Song of William H. Shaw came out, Marty was very generous and sent us guys at Reels a link to watch it. And I watched it uh right away. I loved it, and I loved at the end the cameo, like Marty walks by, like, that's Marty, I know him, you know. So I literally said no one knew what I was talking about because I made a bunch of people watch it, you know. I was like, that's Marty, like who's Marty? Like, he's the director, you know. It's Marty, it's fine. Yeah, it was it was a good it was that was a good movie. That was a lot of fun to watch. I believe I recommended it on Real System. You certainly did. Yeah, yeah, it's out there. It's out there. Oh hey, happy to do it. And you guys keep making movies, keep making Pondo, and we'll keep plugging you, absolutely. Awesome. All right, well, um that that's the perfect place to end it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:55

All right, let's get out of here, guys. Have a good one. Later. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:58

Talking the hawk.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:00

Oh, hey, uh, by the way, uh oh crap. What was that? What was that quote? Grab like grab life, bite the bite life in the ass.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:08

Bite life by the ass and drag it. Drag it to you, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:11

Damn it. Screwed that up. Well, that's we'll get better as we go. It's only our 69th episode. Nice.