Talking Pondo: Fright Night and Darkman with Thomas and Erin Lilley Smith

 In this episode, Thomas and Erin Lilley Smith ("Demon Squad") join the podcast. They bring along the movie Fright Night. Marty and Clif give Thomas and Erin the movie Darkman to watch. 

The crew dives deep into Sam Raimi’s Darkman (1990): a chaotic, comic-book revenge tale starring Liam Neeson, and Tom Holland’s Fright Night (1985), the ultimate 80s blend of vampires, special effects, and teenage paranoia. Along the way, they talk about MST3K, Raimi’s early directing style, 90s superhero weirdness, and why Darkman feels like the missing link between Evil Dead and Spider-Man.

Watch Demon Squad on Tubi!

 #TalkingPondo #Darkman #FrightNight #SamRaimi #HorrorPodcast #MST3K #MovieReview #CultCinema #EvilDead #LiamNeeson #ChrisSarandon #HorrorMovies #FilmDiscussion #Podcast 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The wind is blowing, the rain is howling, he can't keep a box over him to save his life, and it's just like infection. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly his wound.

SPEAKER_07 0:11

Yeah. Well, it's very movie set like, because we're coming off of things like Batman and Dick Tracy, and they're trying to figure out how to do the superhero movies, and all those early ones feel almost they're even when they're dirty, they're super clean looking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:31

Welcome to season three of Talking Pondo. Talking Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty give each other a film to watch and talk about them in detail. Some episodes will include a special guest.

SPEAKER_07 0:49

The Phantom of the Opera Becomes a Superhero will not be seen this week, so we may bring you the following biopic on Peter Vincent.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

I'm loving these cold openings. They get better and better every week, I'm telling you. Yeah, he did one one week, and I was like, okay, well, now you gotta do them every week because they're fine. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Yeah, that was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Um okay, well, so back. Uh let's see, season three, episode 19. 19. Wow. 19, which puts us somewhere in the uh, I think this is 91.

SPEAKER_07 1:22

91, rapidly approaching 100 episodes. Yes. We're back again. It's Talking Pondo. Uh it's me, Marty, as always, and Cliff over there, even though you can't see the direction since this is just sound and we don't do stereo mixing. Wouldn't that be obnoxious? Have you ever heard podcasts where one voice comes out of the left speaker and the other comes out of the right? It's really disorienting when you have that voice, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Might do that for one episode just to drive everybody crazy. Yeah, you don't want to watch us on video anyways. There's a reason that we're directors and not actors behind the camera people. Behind the camera. Yeah. So my mother used to say, you have a face for the closet.

SPEAKER_07 2:02

It's funny that you bring that up because uh our two films today, and we do have guests, which will always have guests today. Uh we've we've met a lot of actors through a bunch of cons and whatnot. And we usually find that they're all about five foot tall, right around there. And both are six foot, and we're like, oh, that's why we're the directors. We're kind of like, you know, the tall people. But both both films today feature two tall actors. We have Liam Neeson and Dark Man, and we have Chris Sarandon and Fright Knight, and they're both easily six foot or more. Yeah. I think measured six two or four above everyone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah. It's real, which is really, it's it's uh, he's not kidding. Like if you go to these cons or you meet some of these people, I mean Danny Trejo is 5'4. Right. He looks huge on you know, like on film, but he's just a he's a he's a tiny dude. You know, he's a uh so it's it's like or when you meet um oh officer Dewey. Um oh David Arquette, yeah. He's gonna be a big one. Yeah, he's five seven, five'eight, maybe something like that. Yeah, it's very surprising. I'm 6'4, so everybody's kind of shorter to me, but it's when they're way shorter, you're like, oh, this is crazy. Okay. Um they there's that famous thing they talk about, Alan Ladd and Shane, right? Where they had they had Jack Plants literally dug a trough and had him walk in it so that Ladd was so that because Ladd was very short and they wanted to have that eyeliner so they put him on a box or they'd have you know literally dig a hole and have plants step step in it and sit stand in it. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_07 3:31

So all right, so who we got this week? Well, our guests this week are the uh director writer team that brought us the film Demon Squad, which some of you may know from MST season 13, or you may have just discovered the movie by itself out in the wild. And it's uh Thomas and Aaron Smith today.

SPEAKER_04 3:50

Woohoo! Hey, thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Welcome. Yeah, thank you so much for coming on. We uh I I'm ecstatic to have anybody who's had a film on Mystery Science Theater. That's one of our absolute favorite shows. Um congratulations on that.

SPEAKER_09 4:08

That's amazing. It was a very unique experience. I will say, um, talking about short actors, all of my actors seem to be very short. It helps that I'm tall and I can sort of, if I need to, just sort of lean over them to make my point. Um, but we I had a very tall actress in our last movie, and it was intimidating to have someone else like looking down at you. Um so yeah, I can I see why like all the actors are short.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

I I'm not a fan of people who are taller than me. I I'm not. I don't I'm I am being it's all tall, I'm not used to looking up at people.

SPEAKER_09 4:46

It throws you off your game when you're used to being the tallest person in the room. It's it's really yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yeah, I'm 5'4, so you know everybody's taller than me except Danny Trejo.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

You guys are like literally eye-level.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

You've been looking at us.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Well, again, thanks for coming on the show. Um, so we when we asked you on, we we love to do this thing where we kind of uh invite a guest on, throw three movies at them, see which one they're interested in, and let them you know throw a movie at us. It's a lot of fun. Um and we threw what are we Fright Night is what we threw at them? Is that right? I think oh we had Dark Man.

SPEAKER_07 5:23

Yeah, we gave them Dark Man and they gave us Fright Knight.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Fright Knight, okay, yeah. Because I was like, yeah, I didn't remember putting Fright Night on the list. Okay, but Dark Man I definitely remember putting on the list, and oh boy. I have notes.

SPEAKER_09 5:37

I have a strange relationship with Dark Man. It was it came out when I was probably maybe 10. Okay, and I remember my mom wanted to see it, but we never actually saw it, and the only real experience I had with it was the comic book cover for I guess the adaptation of the movie. And it just always intrigued me, and I only saw I think like maybe the last 20 minutes on USA Network at some point, and I never got to see really the rest of it, I don't think. Um, so it was always just sort of this. I knew it was there, and I love Sam Raimi, and I was like, this is a perfect chance to to go watch Darkman.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Oh, this is your first viewing of it?

SPEAKER_09 6:19

In full, yeah. I took advantage of it and I bought the Blu-ray, but it was the one that has Dark Man, Dark Man 2, The Return of Durant, and Dark Man Three Die, Dark Man Die. We can talk about those too.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

I didn't even realize they had made those next two. Yeah, direct to video.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

Direct to video.

SPEAKER_07 6:41

Well, it kind of started Raimi Sappert's uh TV career in a way, making those direct-to-video. The next thing you know, it's Cena, Hercules, etc. But Cliff and I went and saw Dark Man the day it came out. Oh, really? He made a mainstream budget movie. We gotta go see this.

SPEAKER_09 7:07

Yeah. And it's so weird. It's it's like this weird in-between, like style-wise for Raimi between Evil Dead and Spider-Man, where it's you can tell that he's kind of rendering himself in, but then sometimes he's going full Raimi, and it's just it's it's this weird tone where it's like kind of this goofy smile on your face, like, yeah, that's Raimi. But then sometimes it's also like maybe, maybe pull it back just a tiny bit here, buddy. It's like the there's the the Carney scene, I think, where it just kind of goes like full off the rails.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Off the rails Raimi.

SPEAKER_09 7:38

Yeah, it doesn't really fit with anything else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Well, let's then let's dive into Darkman. Yeah. So, Cliff, what is 1990s Dark Man? Okay, 1990s Dark Man. I forgot to pull this up before we started, so give me just a second. We'll edit this out while I'm talking. And okay, Darkman, 1990, rated R, one hour 36 minutes. Um, directed by Sam Raimi, written by Sam Raimi, Ivan Raimi, starring Liam Neeson, Francis McDorman. Uh Brilliant Scientist Left for Dead returns to exact revenge on the people who burned him alive. That's your log line. And your storyline is quite a bit longer. Uh mild-mannered scientist Peyton Westlake, who works out of a lab set up in his loft apartment, is beaten within an inch of his life, but assumed dead by criminal Robert Durant and his thugs. Durant solely wanting to retrieve a document discovered by Peyton's lawyer girlfriend Julie Hastings, implicating Durant's developer associate Lewis Strach, Jr., of offering bribes to get his latest waterfront development passed by the zoning commission, and about which Peyton ostensibly knew nothing. In the aftermath of the lab being destroyed in an explosion set by Durant, Julie knows nothing about Strach being behind what happened, let alone that Peyton was targeted or that Peyton survived, and only fragments of his body being discovered and her assumption that he perished in the explosion. Man, this is really poorly written. Uh apologies to the listener here. Yeah, she further believes that the document was also destroyed in the explosion, while in reality Durant was able to locate it in the loft. Peyton's still alive body is discovered, um, and now he's a John Doe, and they operating on it operate on him in an experimental burn unit where they're able to keep him alive, but he's permanently physically scarred and changed fundamentally in three ways. He's no longer able to feel physical pain, he has increased physical strength, and he is emotionally more aggressive to the point of being violent if pushed. He's basically a fucking superhero. Able to escape, Peyton returns to work in developing synthetic skin. He plans to use synthetic skin to don disguises and exacting revenge not only on Durant and his team of thugs, but on Strap. The problem for Peyton is that he is only able to maintain the skin for 99 minutes in open daylight or uh in the materialist light skensitive way that starts to melt. So what a terrible plot. This guy Huggo, he writes either good ones or bad ones, and I think Huggo may be an AI, I'm just guessing. But anyway. So there you go. So Dark Man. Um so yeah, we reviewed this for the school paper. Um I remember Sam Raimi being with the first director that Marty and I kind of like when we met in high school, talked about movies and all that kind of stuff. It was the first director we kind of really were both got into and thought was going to be really great. Um, you know, building on your comment, Thomas, I think one of my notes here is that this is very much Raimi trying to put down the independent director Raimi and build the Hollywood director Raimi. The guy who goes on to direct Spider-Man, you know, and and have the number one picture in the world and the highest grossing picture for quite a while. Um, you can see him like, all right, you know, I can still pull out my old tricks, but now I have a budget and I don't need them as much, so I'm gonna try something else, and I'm gonna try, you know, to be to tell a different story, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_09 10:54

And I feel like why if you've ever watched Crime Wave, um where it was like in between Evil Death of Light 2, where it's like sort of a an attempt at a more mainstream movie, but he still was Raimi, full range and the full this is him trying to adapt to the more mainstream before what did he? I guess he did Quick in the Dead after this, probably. Oh, Army of Darkness.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Army of Darkness, yeah. Army of Darkness, yeah, okay, right. Yeah. Um, but yeah, but he but I mean even Army of Darkness, he was he starts to kind of get that style down, right? And then you know, by I think what is it?

SPEAKER_09 11:29

I'm looking at his his uh I think he has a much better handle on it uh mix wise balance-wise with Army of Darkness to kind of I would agree with that, yeah. His that mainstream button and also the the weird Raimi tones, you know? Um but I love the just kind of the concept of Darkman. I think it's a really good idea for a superhero. Um and I know he made this because he couldn't make the shadow and he couldn't make Batman, so he made up his own character. And I think it's just a really great idea uh that I wish they had gotten to explore more in like a TV series or something, because it felt like it was set up for more, you know, down the line.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

I I feel like Frances McDormand is miscast in this. I just don't say that in the easy. I just don't feel like this is her kind of picture, you know. And no, she she does her, she I mean she does a workman-like job of it. She's not a bad actress by any stretch of the imagination, but it's just like I don't think this is your type of part, you know. You just don't, yeah, I don't know. You don't, you don't, I'm not I'm not really buying it, and you and you're not really it doesn't really seem like you're really trying to sell it too hard. Exactly.

SPEAKER_09 12:38

It's it's it's uh yeah, more unusual role for her, I would say. Um, but I thought Liam Neeson was pretty great. Uh he's fantastic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Larry Drake, Larry Drake, too.

SPEAKER_09 12:49

Yeah, and I think a lot of scenery I thought it was weird that looking back, because I always assumed that the Larry Drake character was the big bad, you know, and then they based the sequel on bringing his name is in the title of Return of Durant. He's just a glorified lackey, yeah. You know, and uh that really surprised me because I didn't I didn't realize that going in. Um the other guy's so boring.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Totally, it was weird too, because like especially at the end where he starts to interact with Strak, he becomes very like submissive and like Strach just shits on him and he just kind of takes it and accepts it. And it's like it's such a weird shift from the guy who's collecting fingers and killing people.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

Exactly, right?

SPEAKER_09 13:29

Yeah, it's like what's once he's out of the picture before the big climax finale. I feel like once that helicopter crashes into that tunnel, it kind of deflates some because it's like it felt like he was the Joker to Dark Man's Batman, you know. Um, and so then you're left with this just guy who's kind of boring. We've seen only in like maybe two scenes with him.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Um he's kind of your stereotypical late 80s, early 90s. I'm the bad corporate boyfriend. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, I'm a bad developer, I'm Donald Trump, you know, or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_09 14:06

Which it's gave but it gave me a little bit of RoboCop vibes because his he has the the big model of the city, like this is the future of the city, kind of like OCP had in RoboCop, and then of course has that very Alex Murphy origin of just being torn apart and then having to rebuild their own.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

There are some weird parallels to RoboCop in this, aren't there? That's interesting. I didn't even pick up on that. That's an that's that's a good catch. The dialogue's really goofy, like it's it's goofy dialogue, it's it's it's not how people talk, and it's not even how kind of they talk in comics. Like you could you could tell this is where Sam's all figuring out, but but like at one point they bring it the their document they're looking for, you know, they break in, they kick the shit out of Liam Neeson, and they're looking for the document. At one point, somebody brings the document to Larry Drake and he just goes, Oh goody, and takes it out and he says, Oh goody. Somebody somebody stopped and fucking typed in oh goody typewriter and was like, that's what that we'll go with. Oh goody. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 15:07

And then the the weird, very cartoony, like the what he had of like a he turned the gas on and there was a lighter there, and then he for some reason, I guess he found a drinking bird, and that was gonna yeah, it was all hit uh everything hinged on the drinking bird hitting the lighter at the right time, right? That was very like Batman 66, which like R-rated version of Batman 66. Uh but I think I think um uh yeah, there's a lot of weird tonal whiplash. Um very much so, yeah. So it makes it kind of hard to uh I think it would take a couple of viewings to really like get into the groove, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Well what just killed me is that they he's called Dark Man and they make this big deal about figuring out that it that the synthetic skin works pretty much fine in the dark, it's just a sense of delight. And yet he feels like let's let's just only put on the sense the the synthetic skin and go look for these bad guys in daylight. Yeah, like make it easy on yourself, dude. Just go at night.

SPEAKER_08 16:20

It's like you didn't earn his name of Dark Man.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Yeah, not at all. I kept waiting for it to come into play somewhere where it would like the light bulb would go off, and oh, I can just do this at night.

SPEAKER_09 16:29

And I will say the the vocal the vocal mimic mimicry was a little hard to believe.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Oh, yeah, that was like you have missed your calling.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

I mean, Aaron makes a great point though, like all this all this whipping gnashing and wailing of teeth to to get to Francis McDormand's character, and you know, I'm I'm back and I love you when he could have just been like, meet me at for dinner tonight and I'll explain everything. And then and then he's he's he can wear that friggin' face for four or five hours. I mean, it's you know, no big deal. Um, you know that scene where where they've where they've got him spinning on the spinning machine thingy, you know, yeah, and uh and the the nurse from American Werewolf in London is is talking and she's a doctor. Yeah, yeah. All I could think, well, first off, it's good to see her in another movie, you don't see her doing stuff. But secondly, all I could think of was how many fucking revolutions did they poor guy have to do on that thing while they were like, all right, cut, nope, we're gonna have to reset, you know. And he's just like, oh, let me off of this. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_09 17:26

Hopefully, and I will say that I recognized her and I've looked it up. I was like, she's gotta be in this for more than this one scene, right? Nope. Did not come back, didn't have anything else to do. That was it. Um, but I do love the the the Ted Raimi cameo where he's just trying to be some sort of badass.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Ted's gonna get his screen time, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 17:46

Yeah, yeah. And then uh I did love the other cameo from um uh the guy that played Jake in Evil Dead 2, where he's got one leg in this, where there's a machine gun leg, and he's like they take the leg off and use it as a machine gun, and he's just like hobbling around, bouncing on his on his one good leg. I thought that was like hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

That was that opening scene is so ridiculous because it's like they pull up and there's like eight of them in car, you know, can get out in two cars, and this warehouse doors open up, and there's like 50 guys there, like, hey, we're gonna patch you down. And then suddenly one dude with a machine gun, you know, built into a fake leg is just mowing everybody down, and it's it's just it was like, What the fuck? Okay, sure. You know, and Larry Drake's just slowly shooting people one at a time, you know.

SPEAKER_09 18:32

And uh it's a it's it's uh like there's there are elements of like greatness, like the the the cigar cutting thing with the fingers, so that's like such a like memorable character trademark. Yeah, but then but then at the end of the day, I kind of walk away. It's like it's it's fine. It's the just over as a whole, it's fine. I can watch it, it's fine. But you know, it's uh I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been like a a reboot or something. But I again I'm not sure if anyone how many people remember Dark Man outside of you know film fans and Raimi fans.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

I mean, I'm I am a Raimi fan. I will watch anything that that man may but I'm also a huge fan of the opera fan because you know I'm a musical theater kid, but I had never heard of this movie. I had just it was just completely off my radar. I'd never heard of it. So when Thomas said that you know that was one of the choices, I'm like, heck yeah, that sounds that sounds right up my alley, and it was, it's a hoot, but um yeah, never heard of it.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

So yeah, you definitely made it entertaining, right? Like it's very entertaining, even with all of its goofiness and all of its kind of incongruity and weird tonal shifts, it's it's it's wildly entertaining to watch. It is very entertaining. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 19:54

If it were on, I would I would finish watching it. But it's not like it's not like an Evil Dead 2 or an Army of Darkness or a Quick and the Dead, where I'm like, I'm gonna go put that on. Right. Um, it's not like my first my first go to, I think. But I I seem to remember it being like a big deal when it came out.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

It was a big hit, yeah. It was it yeah, it did well. I mean, it made made money, it did well, and I like I said, I think it was his foray, because I mean, after this, if you look at his career trajectory, he goes on to do he does Army of Darkness to kind of wrap that trilogy up, and that's one a wildly popular movie for its fan base. And then he goes Quick and the Dead, Simple Plan for Love of the Game, The Gift, one, two, three, four, bang, bang, bang. And then it's fucking Spider-Man one, two, three. And it's just like, God damn, this guy. I mean, he just starts crushing it. He just he just proceeds to just start crushing it, and like it's it's it's just like almost like watching him get it out of his system. You know what I mean? Like, like I gotta get all this out of my system so I can go make Hollywood movies, you know, exactly exactly what he does. It's weird. I thought Simple Play was fantastic.

SPEAKER_09 20:58

I never actually saw it for love of the game.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

I heard Oh, I like that one a lot. I like that one a lot, actually. I it's it's it's sappy and it's kind of weird, but uh Kevin Costner for to me is one of the most believable sports uh actors. He seems a very especially for baseball, he seems like a very natural athlete. So it's uh it's it's like watching um Scarlett Johansson do all of her Black Widow stuff where you're like she really sells in and out of the stunt really well for this for the stunt person, so it looks very natural and it looks very congruent, you know, everything matches. Uh maybe that's just me.

SPEAKER_07 21:33

No, you're right. The most Raimi-esque stuff in for the love of the game is all the pitching from the baseball mound where he gets to do his kind of crazy camera work. Everything else is more subtle, like he finally reading a review when it came out.

SPEAKER_09 21:46

Then it was like talking about the those shots, and then it was like they were surprised that with it being a Raimi movie, the only drop of blood was I think he cut his hand on a saw or something.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

It's a romance. I mean, it's a it's a love story, basically. So it's very, very unraimi-esque, in my opinion, which is which I think is probably why he did it. Where he's like, you know, I'm gonna try to do one of these, see what that's like.

SPEAKER_09 22:08

I'll have to find it one day and check it out.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yeah, it's like Darkman without all the action.

SPEAKER_09 22:14

So so Dark Man better cast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

So Darkman breaks out of the hospital and ends up sleeping in an alley during what looks like the worst fucking hurricane I've ever seen. I mean, the wind is blowing, the rain is howling, he can't keep a box over him to save his life, and it's just like dude. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly wound, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 22:38

Well, it's very movie set like because we're coming off of things like Batman and Dick Tracy, and they're trying to figure out how to do the superhero movies, and all those early ones feel almost they're even when they're dirty, they're super clean looking. Yeah, it almost like a set.

SPEAKER_09 22:55

Oh no, I was just saying it very much had that early 90s uh aesthetic to it, which I've I've really liked. I like that. I like that aesthetic a lot.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, yeah. So I created a drinking game for this movie. So what you do is every time there's a Dutch angle, you take a drink. Oh uh, probably about an hour into it, you'll have to turn the movie off because you won't be able to keep your eyes from crossing. But it was just like I had forgotten how much you know that dude is in love, especially early in his career, is just in love with a Dutch angle. Close up, bam, you know, or Dutch angle, zoom in, bam. You know, he every way that he can do it to move that camera to an off-kilter angle, he'll do it.

SPEAKER_09 23:38

Yeah, you know, and it looks great. Um, it's just you know, it's knowing when to sparingly use it. Um but it one one thing that really watching it, um, he goes and he's after he he runs away from the hospital, he sets up his lab in this old abandoned, I guess, power plant, which still has power, and he just puts all of his stuff into one shopping cart, and poof, there there it is. He's it all still works perfectly. Yeah, it's like that's the most unbelievable thing in this whole movie. I'll buy the skin, but that's the most unbelievable thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

It is definitely a uh like just a series of conveniences, like, oh, he can't feel pain, and he's really strong. Well, awesome, and he can put anybody's face on. Well, here we go, you know.

SPEAKER_09 24:30

100% comic book, and I kind of love it for that. Yeah, I'm saying so unashamed of just being this is what this is the way everything works.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Um totally embraced that style, and it's it's a it's fun.

SPEAKER_09 24:44

All credit to Newton for being able to still act through all of that with a straight face, yeah. Because he no enunciation for the mouth, just basically a a mask, uh, and then all the bandages and everything. So he's he's still pulled it off.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

That mask at the end with just the teeth is pretty good, too. It's it's it's pretty well, that's a pretty well done appliance.

SPEAKER_09 25:10

I kind of got some uh evil ash vibes from that because of the the the way that jaw kind of is.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

This movie's got the stink of evil dead all over it. Oh yeah. It just he's in the middle of making that trilogy, and and it's like it's just it it again, the Dutch angles, the crazy push-ins, all you know, again, like you said, that fight scene at the fair at the carnival. It's so e it's just so Army of Darkness, Evil Dead.

SPEAKER_07 25:35

And yet, like you said, it could it feel you can feel like Spider-Man coming out of the time.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Absolutely can. Yeah, I can see him, I can see his simple plan, love of the game type stuff too, in there where he's he's really trying to be like, okay, I know I know this sells, but that but this is what Hollywood is gonna want. This is what I'm gonna need to do if I'm gonna be able to make a hundred million dollar Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_07 25:58

Who mentions that in the uh interviews of the bonus features about how you know I have when you're independent, you can do anything you want and be crazy, but I I can't make an X-rated movie for the big budgets, I gotta pay it back and something that everybody's gonna enjoy, which is what I always wanted to do anyways. I guess I'm reformulating the game plan is kind of there.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

It is brought up there. And I really feel like this is the movie where he's doing that, he's putting it all together and and staying within the Hollywood system and getting rid of that stuff. Um the camp is is still there though. Like when he's swinging on the fucking helicopter and he and he crashes into that boardroom and he's just like, excuse me, and it squeaks back out. And it's like, oh my god, dude. Come on. It's I do love that it's very ash for people then, though. He is like, excuse me.

SPEAKER_07 26:43

Yeah, yes, yes, excuse me. Like the helicopter rope has enough slack for that, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 26:50

Exactly. It did remind me how movies in the 90s and I guess maybe the late 80s, how much simpler they were because you had sort of a big climactic scene at the end here, but up until that point, everything was pretty low-key, but still entertaining, still like the the one-on-one conversations and the like the the double scene with Larry Drake was was entertaining, and and you know, that would be that's that I guess that would be like a set piece uh getting stuck in the rotating door. Exactly, yeah, yeah. That was like the set piece for that that act. Um, but nowadays, you know, every 20 minutes they would have to have like a city exploding and falling apart and all this big into the world stuff. And it just reminded me. Yeah, yeah. And this just it was refreshing of how simple it was, I think.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

My my biggest problem with this movie is the end. I the the last 20 minutes of this movie are interminably long. That whole last action sequence from the helicopter to the to the building to the you know, the swing helicopter goes over throwing the throwing the fucking hooks and all this, and you know, and it just k it just seemed to keep going on. It just felt like he he kind of rode himself into a corner, and the only way out was pure ridiculousness, the the Sam Raimi, you know, answer. Just fucking go crazy. Yeah, you know, and uh and it worked, but it it was for me probably the the part of the movie that I I really didn't enjoy as much.

SPEAKER_09 28:20

The rest of it though, I I you know like I said, once we were on that like high-rise construction area, it didn't really it didn't really have a big payoff for choosing that because they I think at one point they have like that big big shot where it goes to reveal like some spiked rebar at the bottom. And I and I know the guy falls, but they don't really show, I don't remember them showing like an aftermath or the actual Shunkoff's rebar. Yeah, I mean it just it just felt kind of yeah, it felt kind of like it was uh um a little half-assed, sort of like we have to do this, you know. Like like I maybe even he felt like it should have ended with Larry Drake uh getting exploded in the helicopter, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Well, and he got the rated R, so I mean, why not? You know, I mean you know, he didn't get the R for nudity, so you know he got the R for tone and not even that much language type of stuff. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, why not go for the extra blood? I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 29:22

Um I will say that was pretty awesome when he gets the um the nail gun or the bolt in his tank and rips it out. It's like that's that's that's pretty awesome. Yeah, that was good. Good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah, that hurt.

SPEAKER_09 29:35

One more thing to die from infection from, but awesome.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Maybe he maybe that's his other superpowers that he doesn't get infections.

SPEAKER_09 29:45

I don't know, he's gonna have to watch himself without a power plant, all that rust and uh tetanus.

SPEAKER_07 29:51

Well, it's like how much does Deadpool and FaceOff owe a debt to this kind of idea? Yeah, Deadpool just heals, so he could pull his hand off the spike and heal up, but Dark Man doesn't have a healing factor, but yeah, it's almost as if he does, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah, and God bless that beautiful Bruce Campbell came right at the end. Oh yeah. Yeah, we're just like, yeah. That's the guy who should have been Dark Man anyways. Yeah. The studio wasn't gonna let that fucking happen.

SPEAKER_07 30:22

Yeah, what if Bruce had been Peyton through the whole movie? It's a totally different movie, but I was sitting there imagining that thinking that could have totally worked with Bruce.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah, but yeah, but you would have you really would have needed, in my opinion, sorry, we were quick, you would have needed a different girl at that point because he because Bruce is so his face is so comical and animated that Francis is gonna play real dull against that. You need a girl that's gonna be able to keep up with that.

SPEAKER_09 30:48

Exactly. And I read that uh the point of having Bruce's that last cameo was so if they made sequels, Bruce could take over the role. Okay, the great thing about Dark Man, it's kind of a Doctor Who thing where you can change the actor, right? You know, if you have a problem or an issue, it doesn't matter, you know, it's the concept, you're not gonna see his face. Um it could be you know whatever mask you need it to be. So I think that's a pretty solid concept. But yeah, and I think that that Bruce cameo at the end was one of the in that section that I saw for the first time on TV when I was a kid. So I expected Bruce to be in it more, and so I was confused. I think going back looking at all them together, I'm like, how does he fit in with this? Um so so yeah, but but I yeah, I wish I wish he had gotten a shot.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

So uh trivia, real quick. Um, so this was supposed to be Bill Paxton's role. Really? Oh, yeah. Imagine that. So so what happens is Paxton's hanging out with his buddy Liam Neesom and says, Hey man, I just interviewed for this dark man gig. It's gonna be pretty cool. So the guy's Sam Raimi, and Liam was like, Oh yeah, I've seen Evil Dad too. Okay, yeah, cool. And then he called Raimi and was like, Hey, could I get a could I get an audition? And when Paxton found out that Neesom got the role, he didn't talk to him for months. He was so fucking pissed. He was like, fuck you, dude. And wouldn't talk to him for a while. I wouldn't, I mean, yeah, dude. I yeah, if I'm an actor and I'm you know, I'd be like, fuck yeah, I want to be the lead in a Raimi movie. Are you kidding me? I don't see that working.

SPEAKER_08 32:17

I don't see that working.

SPEAKER_09 32:18

I was I think Bill Paxton got the got the better end of the deal because a few years later he got uh a simple plan, which is a great, great role for him. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

I'm I mean he he I if if you see Paxton playing the guy from Twister as Dark Man, yeah, maybe science kind of maybe kind of rugged science guy might work. I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 32:44

Possible.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 32:47

I just never really never really saw Bill Paxton uh love Bill Paxton, but never really saw him as a scientist type or um an action kind of guy, you know?

SPEAKER_01 32:58

I'll have to tell you a Bill Paxton's story after we get out, I get out of here. I have a Bill Paxton story that I can't tell on on the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

But uh I mean I'll tell you when we get out of here.

SPEAKER_07 33:08

Bill Paxton and Sam Raimi would also work together again in Indian Summer for the Factors, a little known when wouldn't you call that a rom-com?

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Would you that movie when it came out? It's great.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

It's they it's a bunch of kids who go back to summer camp because the camp's closing. Yeah, yeah, it's got Alan Arkin plays Uncle Lee. It's got a great cast, except for Vincent Spano, who I can't stand. It's got a great cast. Remy was an actor in it? Mm-hmm. He yeah, he played. Well, he doesn't have any very many lines, but he's kind of the comic relief. He's like weird comic relief.

SPEAKER_09 33:46

I love I love when Raimi just randomly pops up and things as an actor or as a cameo in the background or something. Yeah, I had I I love that too.

SPEAKER_07 33:57

So oh, the rendering time. This movie was one of the first things to show us. Come back in five days, and your project will be rendered. It reminds me of rendering the movie. Well, I guess I'll come back in a few days and hopefully the power didn't go out.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

That first that first movie that we cut on Final Cut, and it was like, Okay, yeah, I've made all my cuts, render, come back in two hours.

SPEAKER_09 34:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 34:25

Yeah, so apparently this movie uh had a bunch of rewrites, which is probably why it's confusing and this tones all over the place in part. And a huge test screening debacle as well, where this was one of the worst test screened films for Universal. People were saying it was the worst movie they had ever seen. And so there's multiple edits on it to try to get it to feel right, until finally, apparently the legend goes, according to Wikipedia, they were about ready to ship it off to finalize it, and then Robert Tappert had another editor come in, do one final edit, sneak that one across, and apparently the universal executives were like, what the we didn't authorize this, but it was too late, and that became the final cut of the movie. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Oh, that is great.

SPEAKER_07 35:13

Yeah, there's about a half hour bonus of deleted scenes on the Blu-ray, which you can see, like, oh, some of this stuff just doesn't fit at all. So no wonder you know, it's from the beginning of the movie, too. Yeah, definitely worth a watch for sure.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

For sure.

SPEAKER_09 35:28

I'll have to see if mine has that on there. This this may have been the the bare bones of since it had those other two movies on it. I'll have to check and see though.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Well, if it was on the Blu-ray with DVD, I bet you it's probably on the Blu-ray. They usually just port that stuff over. That's true for the most part. Um what else?

SPEAKER_07 35:46

If you really like those Spider-Man movies, you should watch this because you probably get a kick out of it since it's so similar in the the prototype. Uh Peter Deming was the second unit photographer. Wow. And he uh he was uh with us last week when we talked about Scream 2. He's just one of those uh DOPs that does a whole lot of stuff. And then my other note was Blink and You'll Miss T E T he from Live and Let Die. The actor Julius Harris, the the big bad in the James Bond movie Live and Let Die. He's the uh like the funeral caretaker, briefly in this movie. He's one of those character actors that it's like I've seen that guy's face in so many things, and I had to look him up, and I'm like, oh, that's right. He's in the Bond film, and he was also in My Chauffeur that we covered about a year ago. So I always like to point out character actors that we've seen in other films. And uh like Remy called it a lot of favors on this.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_07 36:49

Oh yeah. I guess he was living with Francis McDormand and the Cohen brothers at the time they shot the movie too, which also explains why she's in the movie. Because as she says in the extras, he wanted me to be able to pay my share of the rent. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Well, it's like like uh Ben and Matt sleeping on Kevin's floor during uh goodwill hunting and all that shit. Yeah. Um well, so what do you think?

SPEAKER_07 37:14

What do you give it? Me? I give it a three and a half out of five.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Mm-hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 37:19

You know, I can't quite go to four because it has too much messiness, but there's enough spark in there that even 35 years later I'm still sitting here smiling every now and then, re-watching this, and parts of it have aged really well, while other parts, well, you just can't escape the amber of 1990 sometimes. Yep. Yep. That's the truth. Three and a half stars.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

All right. Thomas, what do you about you?

SPEAKER_09 37:43

I agree with that. I agree with three and a half. Um it was fun and it left me actually wanting to see more or to see a modern take on it.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

All right.

SPEAKER_09 37:54

I would I think I would prefer a show though, uh a series.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Oh, series would be good. I wouldn't mind watching that, especially if it was updated and done for now or rebooted. That might be really good.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Um I'm I'm gonna bump it up to four because there is one shot in it that lives rent-free in my mind now. I just absolutely think it is it is it is absolute I can't even put words to it. But Frances McDormand is standing there watching the explosion happen, and then it just morphs into her in her funeral gear, oh yeah, standing in the cemetery, and it's it is so campy and cheesy and so seriously done at the same time that I yeah, I I I it just I think that is one of the greatest shots I've ever seen for so many reasons.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

That's fantastic. Uh I think I'm gonna go a little bit lower. I think I'm gonna go three. Um, because I I I I I really I rem I remember really loving this movie and I hadn't seen it. I haven't seen it in at least 15, 20 years. And I put it back on and I'm just like, oh man, it's really kind of starting to show its its age, a little creaky here. And but but I would rewatch it again, though. I mean, three for me is pretty good. That's rewatchability. That's that's hey, I I put that on the shelf and own it and watch it every now and then.

SPEAKER_07 39:23

It's creakiness, the the more time goes past, the closer it come becomes to the 30s and 40s universal monster movies and almost feel like one of those.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

It's yeah, and and I mean it's it's very weird and singular. You're not gonna see another movie like Dark Man for sure. At least you're you're gonna see movies like it, but you're not gonna see one executed like it, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Um it'd be a fun double feature with the invisible man.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Like the 1930s.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Ooh, maybe you should do the John Carpenter memoir in this one. Oh boy. John Carpenter's memoir is the invisible man in this one.

SPEAKER_07 40:00

I will give it to Dark Man that he has a specific way of putting that bandage across his nose every time. He's got to have that dark man slant there. He's very fashion conscious, even when he's all he's running around wearing Eric's fedora, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_09 40:18

Very good. He's also he has a very distinct and I would say iconic look. If if I think if we had seen more Dark Man, I think more people would recognize that look as, oh hey, Darkman, you know. Um I think he does have a very good silhouette and a very good, easily identifiable uh look.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Agree. Well, all right. That moves us to Light Knights.

SPEAKER_07 40:44

Yeah, another five years back to the mid-80s, because we love to live in the 80s here. And it's funny that this movie was brought to us because you would think that this would be a movie that we would talk about first since it's so quintessential, 80. And just like Darkman, there's parts of it that have aged well, and then there's parts like the score that remind you, yes, this is the 80s. We cannot escape it. But that also adds to the charm of it. But, anyways, Cliff, what is Fright Knight from 1985, not the remake? That's right.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Fright Knight, the original Fright Knight, 1985, rated R. An hour and 46 minutes. Uh Fright Knight sees a teenager believing that the newcomer in his neighborhood is a vampire. He turns to an actor in a television-hosted horror movie show for help to deal with the undead. This is written and directed by Tom Holland. Uh stars Chris Saranda and William Raxdale Amanda Pierce. And you know what he wrote, Cliff? He wrote Class of 1984. That's correct. That's exactly what I think. Yeah, that's right. Storyline for young Charlie Brewster, nothing could be better than an old horror movie late at night. Uh two moon, two men move in next door, and for Charlie with his horror movie experience, there can be no doubt that they are vampire and his day guardian. The only one who could help him hunt them down is a washed-up actor Peter Vincent, who hosts Charlie's favorite TV show Fright Knight. But Vincent doesn't really believe that vampires exist. That's a much more succinct. That's a much better succinct plot than this ridiculous mouthful that I had to read for.

SPEAKER_07 42:19

Well, this one has a succinct plot as well. Dark Mystery's got this real estate thing going on. It's it's got a lot going on. A lot going on. This one's more to the point. Vampire. No, it's not. Yes, there is, you know.

SPEAKER_09 42:31

Yeah, rear window with a vampire. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This movie is perfect.

SPEAKER_07 42:37

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

It's great.

SPEAKER_07 42:42

You know, this guy would also go on to write child's play a few years later. Child's play, yes. It's funny because similar to that movie, uh, there's uh this is a movie, this is a movie about gaslighting as well. There's a vampire next door. No, there's not. There's a doll trying to kill me. No, there's not. You know, he likes to have that similar uh reoccurring theme. And hey, the guy's name is Charlie, and then Chucky, ah, geez, it all comes back to Charles for some reason. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

This Tom Holland also wrote uh cloak and dagger. Yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. Yeah, I don't know if you guys ever caught that one about the uh I have an imaginary friend. No, you don't. Kid, yeah, the kid who has an imaginary friend plays a minute. Nazi knowing, no. He plays a weird uh he plays a an imaginary, it's not well it's made up for the movie, but it's like a like a turn-based DD game with a mini, but it's a spy game. And so he's always imagining that this little spy of is and it's Dabney Coleman is the spy. And uh is he the Dabney Coleman's always giving advice helping him get into trouble and all this type of shit. So I do remember this, yeah. Anyway, so Friday night, back to Friday night. Sorry.

SPEAKER_07 43:49

So is this if if it's not the first, it's got to be among the first movie where a super fan was the protagonist, right? Where somebody's like, I know all about. About the horror movies and stuff, and now it's happening to me, but I'm gonna use my knowledge to kind of win.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Yeah, King of King of Comedy comes to mind, I guess. Um, where where uh De Niro abducts Jerry Lewis, you know, he's a huge fan of Jerry Lewis and he wants to be a comedian, so he abducts Jerry Lewis. But there aren't a lot of them, like like where the super fan is sort of the protagonist.

unknown 44:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Fan boys would be the other one I can think of, but that's like later.

SPEAKER_07 44:26

This does for vampires what Scream did for slashers, kind of. And then Wayne Scream's one of those too, where it's like, oh, we've seen all those movies, now we know the rules, kind of. Yeah. Yeah, and this is is this is this this is pre-Lost Boys, right? Yeah, this this kind of vampires were kind of persona non grata for a little bit in the early 80s, and then Fright Knight comes along and shows us how to do vampires in the 80s and teens, with with yeah, with teen kids, how to how to put a vampire with a teen kid, then you get once bitten, then you get lost boys, then you get uh my best friend is a vampire, you get uh Jesus Christ, then you get Buffy. Yeah, Buffy and those in Interview of a Vampire are those 90s ones, and then I feel like it kind of all roads lead to Demon Squad in a way, because I would felt that that film you're you guys had a lot of that Buffy kind of. Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_09 45:22

This is true, this is true. But I will say that the Fright Knight vampires are very distinct from anything that came I would say before or after, because there was stuff when I was a kid and I didn't quite understand like how or why it was just cool, you know, like the big mouth. Yeah, the shark mouths. Yeah, it just looked so cool, and I hadn't seen that really before on a vampire. Um and then you just some of the ideas of like the familiar even having his own weird demise and look and everything. Just it was just I hadn't really seen any other vampires like that, you know? And it was very cool.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

I mean, I can't, I'm just I'm I'm running in through my head trying to think of anything that reminds me of Fright Knight, and the only thing I can kind of think of is again once bitten out, or or the one with um the one with fucking George Hamilton. Oh, the love of the uh and and not in and I don't mean you know the as far as quality, but just that that kind of tone, uh I guess, of a vampire in a modern society with a sort of the with a guardian and all that kind of stuff. That's true. R Renfield makes me uh reminds me a bit of this too. True. Oh, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_09 46:39

Yeah, yeah, that is true. Yeah, yeah. The uh I would say Fright Knight very much I think it holds up, even though it is very 1985, everything about it, it is it is like a period piece now, you know, just the music, the the clothing, the way like the latchkey kids, and just how they were doing their own thing and the oblivious parents, and yeah, it's very monster squad, too. Yeah, exactly. And the the TV host, which you know nowadays aren't as much of it.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

There's a couple, you know, Svengooley and a couple other things, but no, but when we were growing up, there was like fucking Kev Gregor and there was Elvira. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, good hosts back this. Svengooley's a good good good poll too. And I think the the casting's really um really good, really solid. I I I keep for me, the one thing the only casting issue I have with this film is Marcy from fucking Married with Children. I'm just I like every time she looks great, I'm like, it's fucking Marcy from Married with Children, it's Marcy from Married with Children. I don't know why, it's just she's so tight cast in that role in my head that it every time I'm like, where's your husband? Where's fucking?

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Is he gonna come out or again in his pants? You know?

SPEAKER_09 47:54

And she's probably the one that looks least like a teenager, too, because she does look like a fully grown woman. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

At least a few year old with a hairbone.

SPEAKER_09 48:04

Yes, yes, yeah. Because it wasn't you know that much later when she was playing uh yeah, a grown adult married on Married with Children. Um so yeah, she very much, I think she's just kind of always looked the same. She's always looked mature and um like her.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Yeah. I have I have a bit. Can I do my bit? Sure. Okay, here's my bit. Dear Diary. My girlfriend wanted to have sex with me last night, but I got distracted by the vampire movie moving in next door. Now she's mad at me, and I'm pretty sure Mama's gonna bang the vampire. At least I'll have evil, at least I'll have evil on Ed on my side. Talk soon.

SPEAKER_09 48:46

Yeah, I will say that uh Charlie he he's not he is so not into it.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Which is uh it's I guess uh at first I I was like, oh come on, but I it's actually the when I think of it as we're talking, it's kind of refreshing that he's not he's not your typical horny 80s teenager. This is the era, this is the decade of of all the sex comedies, of all the the losing it and you know, these this obsession with men losing their virginity. Um, and so it's nice that he's kind of like, you know, she's she's like fine, we'll have because he's like, Whoa, when are we gonna have sex? She's like, fine, okay. And then he's like, oh horror movie's on, never mind. Like he's just completely losing, you know. I I don't know, I kind of like that.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

It it kind of really it highlights the innocence at that point because there, you know, there's this very adult situation, but oh wait, shiny, let me go look out the window and see the vampire moving in next door. That that's got my attention now. And they're just so innocent at that point, and it's just it's kind of sweet.

SPEAKER_09 49:59

And Charlie does have this very gee gosh golly yes, like almost I could if Tom Hanks had been a like several years younger, I could see him like knocking that role out of the park, yeah, you know, from that time period.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Like, yeah. You have to be pretty gullible to be like, I know where I'll go get help. The actor on television. Yes, yeah, and part of me watching it this time, I was like, maybe Charlie should have been younger in order to buy into that, you know. Yeah, because you can take out the hey, let's have sex angle, make them 12 or 13 and have them or whatever, and it might might might play differently. Yeah, it'd be super cute.

SPEAKER_07 50:37

Yeah, but then when she gets seduced at the end, it's kind of like that doesn't have the same. That's very true.

SPEAKER_08 50:42

That's very which which which watching that now, it's still I'm like, it's still that's like this is a little much creepy.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

I mean, I guess it helps that she looks like she's 35.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Right, exactly. Exactly. She yeah, she doesn't look like she's 14. That's true. Um, have you noticed in the very beginning, you know how they they show the the clips from um the monster movies that are the that that got the vampire killer guys in. I can't remember his name, right? Bad of names, but he have you noticed that in the first clip the stakes backwards as he goes to stab the vampire? Yeah, that's how that's how naive Charlie is. He doesn't even notice that. You know, it's like he thinks this guy's gonna help him kill vampires. And you know, and and by the way, imagine that you the vampire you've you actually spotted a vampire in real life, and that vampire noticed that you spotted them and then went to you and said, You have fucking two choices. You can forget I exist or I can kill you and your entire family. What would you do? I would I'd be like, you know what, bro? Have a good eternal existence. I'm out of here. You know what I mean? I'm definitely not gonna shove a cross at his fucking face. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_08 51:56

If anything, I'll go great. I'll leave you alone, but I have questions first. Yeah, you know, we have a cup of coffee and talk things talk things through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

And he's like, look, this isn't an Anne Rice novel. Fuck off, kid.

SPEAKER_08 52:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 52:09

But it was very believable, though, of his uh of his mom inviting Chris Sarandon in. Um 1985 Chris Sarandon in. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

It's dreamy.

SPEAKER_09 52:20

Yeah, his mom was very hard up.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

She you she was well, she let the wrong one in for sure, but but he was good looking.

SPEAKER_09 52:28

Yeah, he was he was very cool. Um very pretty, very cool. Uh yeah, I can't I can't I can't blame any of his victims. Um the the one watching this now, the one weak link that I I think Aaron kind of brought it to my attention was Ed.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

I can't stand him. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_09 52:47

He's just a little mud. I remembered him being more of like a knowledge point and funnier, but having more knowledge about vampires, yeah, you know, being like the go-to guy, but he's just kind of there and he's kind of an asshole. Yeah, I it didn't break my heart when he kind of I thought I felt bad for him because it was he had a very, very graphic and rough demise. Yeah, no, that was and he was I did feel bad because he was just a uh outsider kid who wanted to be accepted, but I felt like maybe Stop calling me evil Ed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was he was just kind of he was just annoying. But I did feel I did end up feeling bad for him.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

But um Yeah, but not when he like went down the dark alleyway after everyone said, Don't go down the dark alleyway. That's when I was like, I don't feel bad for you.

SPEAKER_09 53:34

Yeah, it's like you go, you get what you deserve. You can keep going down that path. Yeah. Dark alleys in these movies.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Nobody, nobody deserved that. That's just rough.

SPEAKER_09 53:43

Not sure how we came back from that one, but not really.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

I keep I again, I have a note, I keep struggling with Marcy. Um the makeup on Roddy is a bit meh. I don't like I don't like how they yeah, they they did that. It's the same thing they did to to um uh to uh the the balsally character in in BlackBerry. Oh yeah, he's like overly great his hair and it's overly frosted and it doesn't look right. Maybe on the monitor, but on a high def monitor, you can really play yeah. Um, but this movie is so 80 stylized, it's like a commercial for members-only jackets and Patrick Nagel posters. You know, at one point Marcy's in fucking sea foam green and purple, and you're just like, oh my god, and it's pastel, of course. It's pastel because it's the fucking 80s, but you're just like, Jesus Christ, this movie is just smacking you in the face with its 80s. And then Chris Durangon in the club later, and he's got that sweater, which is just 80s. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and an 80s dance number. I mean, I mean, you have to have that appropriate.

SPEAKER_07 54:49

I love how uh Jerry Dandridge has the score for the film on cassette tape. But I'm like, remember when that was like the high-end entertainment stuff, and now it just seems hilariously antiquated.

SPEAKER_09 55:04

I do have so many questions about his familiar and how that whole relationship works because I don't know. Yeah, but you seem like he he is he's got a lot more seems pretty normal. Yeah, he's just psychotic. Yeah, but definitely like melts. So it's you know, it's yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, from what you do in the show.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

Yeah, like he has his his own agency, his own personality, his own thoughts, and and everything, but he's also supernatural at this point. Yeah, not really sure how that works.

SPEAKER_07 55:45

Yeah, part two has more of a Renfield type character. I think it's John Grease plays the Renfield guy, and that one's a lot grosser, too.

SPEAKER_09 55:54

Part two was my first, or like the last 20 minutes of part two was my first introduction to Fright Night. I remember it was like it was on at my like cousin's house. They had rented it when it came out on VHS, and it was just like seeing that one character who was always on roller skates going down the hallway before I guess they got their come-up ins, and that was like my first introduction. Like, what is this? And and then that's how I found Fright Knight, and of course, Fright Knight is so much better than part two.

SPEAKER_07 56:28

I like how the first half of the movie is just all about the world building, and then almost exactly halfway through the movie, Peter finally meets Jerry, these two characters who wouldn't run into each other, and then it's on at that point. I also like how uh Jerry wrecks Charlie's car, so now they have to be on foot for the rest of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

But in all seriousness, why in the fuck would you assault a vampire's lair at night? Nope, nope, nope. You wait till the fucking daytime.

SPEAKER_05 57:01

He told us to come back in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Well, she'll be dead by then, Cliff. Amy will be dead by the morning. Oh, okay, okay. All right, well, so there's your reasoning. Okay, okay. I I I would have just thought, well, it's unfortunate that my girlfriend is now the succubus of a demon. We'll we'll get her, we'll kill her too in the daytime.

SPEAKER_08 57:19

Or, you know, maybe they'll be happy together and we'll just go on.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

He did offer for me to forget it.

SPEAKER_09 57:27

So I'll just forget it.

unknown 57:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 57:30

I do love how the outside of his house is just this regular two-story kind of suburban house. You can go inside this gothic manor type with the with that cool staircase and the stained glass windows. Just he did a lot of renovation work in the middle of the night, like overnight at that house.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

And and in his cover stories, he's an interior designer, I believe. Is it was it?

SPEAKER_09 57:51

Okay. So um okay, maybe there's something there.

SPEAKER_07 57:55

I don't know if I'd hire that because it's like that Warlock movie we watched, Cliff. They're like that. Yeah, yeah. Oh god, wow. Um they know a lot about interior decorating.

SPEAKER_09 58:12

I I do recall where they ever said said it was set. Was it or we assume it was LA?

SPEAKER_01 58:20

Oh, yeah. I assumed it was California. Yeah, I'm guessing. Yeah, it but to me, it looked like it felt like California, LA. Yeah, suburbs of LA, something like that. Yeah, somewhere in the valley, a vampire has landed.

SPEAKER_09 58:35

So I was also trying to figure out how I guess realistic it would have been for a Peter Cushing type to be hosting a local monster movie show, unlike you know, just through local rundown TV station down the block, you know. Um, and I was like, hey, maybe it is LA. Maybe that might be kind of possible.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

But yeah, I think LA is probably a good good a good bet. There's a there's a like a werewolf prosthetic in this. Like, is he a vampire or is he a fucking werewolf? One of the things that always bringed me out.

SPEAKER_09 59:09

I never understood.

SPEAKER_07 59:10

Yeah, like Mr. Like Peter Vincent said at one point, I fought them in all their forms, the as a bat, as a wolf, as uh you know, and it's like, oh, they run different shapes, and so then he goes through it's uh it's a good prosthetic.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

The stab wolf prosthetic is fantastic. Um it it's uh it's a really good, it's a really good werewolf um appliance. And I must be what Surge won his Oscar for, Marty. Anyway, that's an interior joke. Um it'd be tough to go into a house billowing all that fog. I'd be like, uh again, again, guys, daytime again daytime. I can see what we're doing.

SPEAKER_07 59:49

They said come back around six o'clock, you know. Yeah, don't put any crosses.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Yeah, I I think the uh I think the the I like the film's effects quite a bit. I like the film's effects. I like that that it's all it's all see it's all practical. Well, it's there's no CGI, there's no nothing.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:04

The team that did Ghostbusters, and they did this right after, and so they were quoted as saying something like, We figured out how to do it on that movie, so by the time we moved to Fright Knight, we had perfected a lot of it.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:17

Yeah, they did a really good job.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

They didn't tell.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:20

Yeah, they did. And I will say, um, if looking at this, and you mentioned Child's Play earlier, you can tell that they are both Tom Holland movies.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

They have a great look.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:30

Aside from Sharon Chris Sarandon, they they have a very similar, very nice look. Yeah, yeah. So I really love the way that the movie looks. Um and I just I think the writing's really fun.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:44

I was up with saying yeah, he's a stronger writer than Raimi. I like Raimi's directing more, but Tom Hot Holland is more of that writer-director combo where this is his first directing gig, and he's just hitting it out of the park right away. Because I think it's because he has that stronger screenwriting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:03

Yeah, no, I definitely.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:05

Um it's because of this movie that Roddy McDowell will forever just live in my heart. He is adorable. I mean, Planet of the Apes, he's great in, he's fantastic in, but this is just I and when I think Roddy McDowell, I think Peter Vincent.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

One of my favorite Roddy McDowell scenes is in one of one of the movies that I really it's in a movie that we've done on this podcast that I really didn't enjoy, and it's class of 1984. Oh, yeah. And it's it's the gun scene in class of 1984, it's fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:34

Or he's kind of like holding the class hostage or making them answer questions at gunpoint. Yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Because you're like, he's gonna kill one of these kids, it's awesome. Um he's fantastic in this too. He's really good. He's a great actor, right? That guy's been acting since he was a kid.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:51

Yeah. They wanted to make a part three, but if you know the horror story of real life of what happened to my part two disappeared, that's why there's no part three. So you can look that up yourself. Oh, I spoiled that.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:10

What I think is I know two it two is still kind of hard to come across on VHS or DVD or anything like that. And then we had the remake a couple years ago. Uh uh, I guess a decade or so now, and then from that remake, they had a Fright Night 2, which was just a remake of the remake, but with the the sister, the Jerry Jerry female version. Yeah, so it was a remake of two and the remake. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

Um well, good news, the the original two is uh the film rights have been cleared up. Yeah, they finally cleared it. Oh, really? So it'll come out. So they're so they're gonna plan a release, a release of a 4K release of it. Yeah, cool poster. Just the white poster with the the fangs or the lips, I think. Lips with fangs. Yeah, that was a good poster. Yep, yeah. I like that quite a bit. The mouth on the mouth on Marcy freaks me out. I don't like that. I didn't like that.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:08

Yeah, I I do love how her she when she is a teenager, she's got the the Marcy hair, just the Amanda Burst hair. But she a couple uh hours of changing, she's got this long red, curly hair, um in that in that white dress. Uh just becoming a vampire just really uh matured her, I guess. Yeah, developed her.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Developed her and and got her a great die job.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:37

Yeah, yeah. Interior design and uh salon in there somewhere, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

So Peter Vincent, so get this. This and this makes a lot of sense. Peter Vincent's uh that that rule was originally written for Vincent Price.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

It's like, oh yeah, I can yeah, yeah, I can see that. I can definitely see that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

Uh it was just very, very old at that point.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:03

Yeah. Because it wasn't 85, 84, 85, uh, yeah, he would have been great.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:14

I still love Roddy McDowell, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:18

Yeah, he's fantastic.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:19

Yeah, it gave him it gave Roddy McDowell a chance to play a character with the largest age range he ever had. He's like, I've never played anybody who's supposed to be that old before. But he also gets to play the young version of him in the old movie clips.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

So that's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right. I guess um Chris Sarandon's idea was to eat the apples. Oh, because he's a fruit bat. Yeah, because he's a because he was a bat, he's a fruit bat. So he's like, well, that's really a fruit bat.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:47

The apple thing was kind of intimidating.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:49

Yeah, it really was.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:50

Uh so that was a that was a really neat call. Um but yeah, it was kind of intimidating. Never thought eating someone eating an apple would kind of be threatening, but there you go. He was just so cool uh in this role. I've seen you know, I've seen him in other stuff, but I I think this is like one of his best.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Well, I mean, you see him in The Princess Bride, and he's he's very handsome, but he's not cool. Like there is nothing cool about Humpertink. But this guy, this this guy is cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:30

And he's very chill in real life. I met him at a con a few years ago. And yeah, he's very tall, but he's just like, hey, what's going on, guys? Just totally just chill, you know, not a care in the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

So uh so ten million dollar budget.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:45

Yeah, it was the lowest budgeted movie from what was it, Columbia Pictures that year? They didn't expect it to do anything and the definition of sleeper hit.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:53

It's a classic.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

They were putting all their money into uh perfect with Jamie Lee Curtis and John Travolta.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:59

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

real scary movie and and the and the the the slugger's wife the one with Rebecca de Mornay and uh well I I I've heard of that one I think my parents went to go see it it was uh it played a lot on HBO for that might be after it after it came out so did perfect yeah I feel like perfect night was on like the made the TBS TNT rounds like every week yeah it did the longest time yeah Frightnight I mean Frightnight's got a very huge cult following it's it's like like some of these other we've been talking about uh Monster Squad Lost Boys they have these built-in audiences that absolutely adore these movies I went to a screening of Lost Boys last year at Flix and it was fucking packed I mean there was not an empty seat in that house it was completely full I was like damn this movie's still packing gears 30 30 I don't know 40 years later you know really impressive I think one of the things that really makes Fright Knight stick with me at least the the original version is just how kind of playful it is it's it's it's scary it's got great effects but it's also playful you know it it doesn't take itself too seriously it's just got the perfect balance of comedy and horror uh and that's hard to pull off so that's that's a really good example of of managing that tone.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

And thinking about it it probably played so much on TBS and TNT and all those channels because it's not difficult to make a TV edit of true you just like crop out one pair of boobs and you're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:41

Yeah it's like no it's it's it's that's it yeah he he he walked a really fine tightrope um to to get a movie that kids could watch without being completely scared of but also and enjoy you know I mean I think I honestly think that this probably would have been PG 13 without the boobs in if a couple years later if there was a PG 13. Yeah like it's just it's because it's it's so aimed right at that market. Well that wearable transformation is a little groati there where you stay cut the stake yeah yeah but I mean maybe they maybe they cut a piece here there that but I think I mean I think you like you said you you crop the you crop the boobs out and you could probably go for a PG 13 on this pretty easily with just a couple of notes you know remember Raiders we got melting faces and exploding heads that's PG it was PG yeah absolutely it was a different time these I mean you got Tanya Roberts topless and beast master for goodness sakes that's PG yeah I remember there were yeah they're like G and PGs where yeah yeah yeah I remember I was doing a summer program at the YMCA as a kid I think I was 12 and they were like we're having movie day and everybody's like sweet and I was like awesome dude I don't want to go outside it's Tucson it's a hot I don't want to do that and so uh she's like we're gonna watch Beastmaster and I'm like uh and so I like sidled up to her and I was like you know that movie's got nudity she goes it's PG no it doesn't go sit down and watch Beastmaster so I just fucking sat there just like waiting like waiting and when the boobies came up all the kids were like oh and she went and she runs and she's standing in front of it and of course the kids are looking through her legs and around her and it was that was hilarious. It was fucking funny as shit. Oh my I remember uh yeah like the Romeo and Juliet movie from the 60s that is similar yes clash we had a similar thing and the same thing in the English class was like yes yeah in school I could be wrong about this I feel like tourist trap the original was like PG it is yeah but it's a lot more weirder than yeah and there's like I think they go skinny dipping too in that and um yeah it it absolutely should not be P trap what they got away with yeah speaking of get well not getting away with it and and but speaking of nudity uh the guy who played evil ed went on to do a lot of gay porn in the 90s I heard that I didn't hear a ton of it where I was just like oh man wow I got a I I thought he was a pretty good actor I you know I was really surprised that that his career took that turn and apparently he's he did this he's he's doing he's actually doing new stuff now he's he's been in a recent horror movie fighters yeah he did this and did 976 Evil and I remember yeah yeah and I think that's the one I remember otherwise I kept going what the hell is this other movie that I remember this kid from 976 Evil oh and he's in at close range too and for certain I don't know I don't know how he made that transition over because it seemed like he was fairly popular like he was like on those like ups and coming that's exactly what I mean he seemed like he was up and coming he seemed like he had that that niche of that kind of quirky nerd guy that you know you did in those 80s films The Best Friend you know he seemed like he I was very shocked if when I was looking at his IND to go oh man really okay um you know to go from to go from 976 Ingle evil to butt machine boys is a pretty big difference that's a title that's an actual title that's an actual title yeah wow oh my gosh wow that's yeah the strange talk of fright night yeah yeah yeah yeah um and it wasn't just one it was it was a bunch anyway um wow if you're out there buddy I'm glad you're working again congratulations um I make no judgment on your boy I make no judgment on your porn or people gotta eat but yeah that's uh that's a that's an interesting turn anyway um pastel purple and sea foam green jesus christ marty and see I was all hung up on the synth score I was like oh it's kind of timeless and then that music kicks in I'm like oh that's yeah it's very much yeah it is it is so 80s what are you gonna give this one cliff uh I don't really enjoy this movie a lot um it's it it's it it sort of for me it just doesn't I don't know I I I struggle with it at times I it's it's watchable I I I don't I don't think it's a poorly made movie at all. For some reason it just doesn't I don't connect with it. But I'm gonna give it three stars because I think it's it's well made it's rewatchable um well done but it's just for me like I can't take it to that four star because I just doesn't I don't know I'd rather watch Lost Boys or Once Bitten or once bitten yeah yeah I know I know and that's that's yeah I know that's what I'm saying or that or that George Hamilton one what's that one Love It First Bite? Oh yeah yeah that's what it was yeah that was that one's terrible I wouldn't want to watch that one instead of this I would rather watch Fright Night than this so I but there I I feel like there are other vampire movies I'd probably rather watch I I give it three and a half uh but I like it a little bit more than dark man though dark man I gave a three and a half also but that one's leaning more towards a three whilst this one I would agree more iconic stuff in this no I would totally agree with that I'm going five I'm going five it it I just have a really soft spot for it but I will say there have been a couple of times when I've watched it where it didn't quite connect with me maybe I wasn't in the right mindset or the right mood or something but then there have been some times where it's like I'm just giddy watching it because you know it's it's just so fun.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:48

Fire and hold levels for you. Yeah and I I think it if you an audience going into it expecting one thing and then seeing what it is or the tone that it is may not yeah it may not land with a lot of like modern audiences you know watching it now.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:08

If it's marketed as horror and they walk in there and it's really just kind of like a kid comedy.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:13

Yeah because it's it doesn't have like the edge of Lost Boys. Um it is it is very wholesome in its monster squad feel to it. Yeah yeah yeah so I I yeah I can I can I can totally understand and relate to that. Yeah. Aaron, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:29

Oh I'm gonna go I'm gonna go four and a half because I I would almost go five I love this movie but there there's a little bit of a lull like toward probably like three quarters of the way through a little bit of a lull and there's a lull yeah there's a lull there is but uh but I I feel like because of this movie we eventually got galaxy quest oh draw straight line how are you making that connection uh because of the the we're gonna go and find the uh the actors to okay yeah okay to do what their characters would do I fucking uh I I can draw yeah I I can draw a straight line from one to the other and because of that it it's four and a half.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:19

Okay gotcha yeah I can't blame you on that okay well there you go we call that a we call that a gentleman's nine on the show four and a half is a gentleman's nine stole that about the remake the better yeah yeah yeah and usually that's the case yeah yeah usually that's the case it wasn't terrible it just didn't just just it wasn't better Colin Farrell was good oh yeah Colin Farrell was very good he tends to be the rest of it doesn't quite hold up well I noticed that you've uh gotten pretty far along in your post production progress on your new film I guess that's probably the thing you want to want to plug today perhaps yeah um we are winding down post-production on Demon Squad 2 uh better known as Demon Squad tooth and claw we've got um the edit locked the color correction and sound mix done just waiting on finishing the music have a work in progress cut so I've been sending it out to some festivals to try to get into into that um I'm sure hopefully start hearing some notifications in the next couple of weeks on on this first batch so nice hoping hoping to get them all everything all wrapped up in the next few weeks and um out to all our Kickstarter backers which we are so grateful so for um for making this possible uh but I I think it's uh I think it's gonna be a good time.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:53

Right on right on um so you did you did you fully fund through Kickstarter for this?

SPEAKER_09 1:16:58

Yes yes we did.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:00

And then a little bit out of pocket after um just because Kickstarter fees and items and all that but not near as much as we normally would have to yeah yeah so it it's it was it made a huge difference um and uh uh everyone has been super supportive um and we had a great time being able to uh get back out and film with those characters and uh I think I think I think uh this will be a um a little bit different vibe um but I think uh we're all a little bit older yeah we are all a little bit older um but uh kind of a a different exploration of those characters and the setting and then the the kind of the story ideas I I think it's fun nice right on i'm looking I'm looking forward to seeing it um do you guys have a have a date for release are you targeting anything not yet I'm hoping to have um all the backer discs and digital downloads by the end of the year and then I think we'll start looking at actually releasing it probably at the beginning at uh 26 uh 2026 which feels weird to say but yeah jeez it's 2026 man yeah yeah my uh I have a buddy who's uh he's got two two kids are 17 and 15 and they say oh you were born in the 1900s oh god oh no like uh I told him I was like did you do you punch them when they say this he's like yeah yeah I I think I think it would be allowed man that's that's rude in the 1900s listen you little shit oh my oh my goodness well guys thanks so much for coming on um maybe after maybe after after uh it releases maybe come back on yeah that'd be great we'd love to have you it was a really fun conversation um I'm sorry that I I gave your movie a three I know you really love it but um sometimes that's how that's how it goes I mean you know each their own gentleman six three's not bad no for for me actually three's three again is in the hey I'll I'll rewatch this this is something I might recommend to somebody you know when we get into two and a half and two territory I'd start to be like okay this I'd like to burn this and the person yeah no it it's it's one of those where it's very when I watch it it very much brings back like a certain time uh like those nostalgia nineties early nineties watching you know usa network and TBS TNT weekends uh when cable was still kind of new uh if I was creating this on a nostalgia factor four and a half yeah yeah straight if just like for straight up like oh my god it's the 80s sea foam green and purple pastel holy shit four and a half four and a half nostalgia but you know from a from a you know enjoying oh yeah no three's pretty good though yeah there are better movies there are better movies but um Marty got anything else uh I mean uh Cliff and I'll be back next week with uh another solo episode I guess as we call it uh we'll be reviewing Scream three and the Henry Rollins epic He Never Died so that'll conclude our spooky season for the year next week so you guys seen He Never Died uh no I have not it's a weird one Henry Rollins horror movie yeah it's a it's we'll talk about it next week I'll have to look into it well I guess that's us less you want to get out of here on a quote yeah what you got for me if you're not going to kill me I have things to do what could be more important than my autograph that's nice all right guys let's get out of here have a good one thanks bye don't miss an episode make sure you subscribe to the podcast like us on YouTube or give us a five star rating on the podcast app of your choice