Talking Nicholson: The Border and The Last Detail

 In this episode, Marty gives Clif the movie The Border to watch and Clif gives Marty the movie The Last Detail to watch. 

This week on Talking Pondo, Marty and Clif stumble into a theme they didn’t plan but couldn’t ignore: Talking Nicholson.

The connective tissue between this double feature is Jack Nicholson, starring in two very different films from two very different eras: Hal Ashby’s The Last Detail (1973) and Tony Richardson’s The Border (1982): both centered on authority, systems, and men trapped inside them.

They start with The Last Detail, a funny, deeply melancholy road movie that finds Nicholson escorting a young sailor to an eight-year prison sentence for a petty crime. They dig into Ashby’s “fried-out” ’70s tone, lived-in performances, stark realism, and why the film’s matter-of-fact ending lingers long after the credits roll.

Then they move to The Border, an early-’80s studio film that feels both rougher and conflicted with itself. Nicholson’s morally compromised border agent drifts through corruption, half-hearted redemption, and a system designed to chew people up. Marty and Clif explore the film’s uneven tone, British director perspective, TV-movie aesthetics and the way Nicholson and Harvey Keitel elevate material that never quite comes together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're gonna talk about odd connections. So there's Clifton James again. Not only is it strange enough, the whole Cisco connection. Which is also my first name. That's true too. It is weird. It's it's it's the actual spelling.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

It's not it's the right spelling, yeah, because usually it's Clifford. You and I both know usually it's Clifford.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

It's never Clifton. So who does the music in this movie? Johnny Mandel. Now, who is that? You might say, oh, that's the guy that did the MASH theme song, right? Yeah. You know what else he did? Too close for comfort theme song. Oh, of course he did. And so it all just comes full circle again, as you may or may not know. Welcome to season three of Talking Pondo. Talking Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty give each other a film to watch and talk about them in detail. Some episodes will include a special guest. The Border Two. Maria Loses Her Baby Again, and Meadows has to help find it, will not be seen this week, so we may bring you the following transit. The Border 2. Yeah, I don't think they ever made that one. No, I don't think so. I don't even think it was considered. And they certainly wouldn't have mashed it with the last detail. Or would they? Because I did. But that's my job to come up with a goofy joke to mash the two movies we're watching each week. Because for some reason, along the line, I decided it was a good idea one week, and then I was like, okay, I'm gonna stop doing this. And now it became like the challenge.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

It's almost like a punishment, but you know, you you do come usually come up with a really good one every week. Keep trying to come up with a dear diary every time, but they don't they don't they can't come up with them as much. But anyways, that's us. Uh I'm Cliff. I'm Marty.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

And we are back with Talkin' Pondo. Yeah, and it's talking Nicholson this week. That's right. Because uh randomness. Yes. Because I said you're watching The Border because we watched all the Hell or High Water, Sicario, Wind River, but yet Bad Day at Bad Rock type movies. I'm like, well, I'm gonna pop one in there that I liked from Action Day and we'll see if it comes up. Your own desert drama southwest border thing. Take it back to the 80s, and you're like, well, then we'll go even further back than that and give you know the Hal Ashby movie the last detail from '73 where everybody still had that acid hangover. Boy. Boy. So what what a nice matchup it ended up being, I thought. I I completely agree.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

I I have a lot to say about I'm not ton, but I have a lot to say, I think, about both movies. Um, I really enjoyed the the double watch this week. Sometimes it's a slog to get through both movies. I watched them in a row. But these were easily, these are I watched them you know one night and then the next night, and they were easy to get through. Both them, both about an hour and 45 minutes, I think, hour and 44, but pretty close to being the exact same length.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

So you get the same amount of Nicholson just doing two different things on two different nights. Um we got a little pretty good, man.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yeah, we got a little bla blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. We have a little listener mail. You want me to you want to cut you to cut that out? You want to take it. You either cut it or turn it into a theme song for listener mail. Woodpecker time. What was I on the side? I was hearing some Led Zeppelin song last night. I was like, that just sounds like he's playing. Wait a minute, how out of it were you guys? But that does look with uh sex the last waltz territory.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Maybe we'll bring yeah, I was gonna say maybe we'll bring Song Remains the same on the same on at some point, and we could talk about how whacked out they truly were.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Uh listener male. Uh we had a very popular episode. Enter the dragon. I'm gonna get you, sucker. Get G-I-T. I'm gonna get you. And you go on and you get it had several responses. And I always love it when it's people I don't know who these people are, but they're responding.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

I love that too. Hello, people we don't know. Please keep please keep writing in and responding to our stuff. We love it.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

So we have uh the person that we do know, Joe Palmer, says Robert was great, but no surprise, he's awesome. That was in regards to that Enter the Dragon episode. And we also had the unknowns, David Robinson, saying, One hell of a movie, Enter the Suckers. I guess he's combining the Enter the Suckers. Enter the Suckers, and somebody named Rodney Boyd says, Sifu Bruce Lee's soul brother Jim Kelly. He's got like fists and hearts along the way. Nice. Uh and then Ray even chimes in and says, uh, remember the great film print of Ener the Dragon we saw at the loft years ago. And yeah, as I was mentioning, if you get a chance, that's the way to that's the way to see it. Seeing Enter the Dragon on the big screen really does pop. TV presentations have gotten close, the criterion's good, but there's just something with that particular film stock that it's never quite looked right on television.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

So interesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Oh, we have another piece of mail. Cool. It's about local hero. Ooh, okay. A movie I just added the criterion version of to my collection. That was the other criterion movie I was talking about. This is from Jay uh James, Jim over at uh Bravo. Ah, Mr. B side. Yeah. So he says, I'm glad you found the movie enjoyable. For me, I've seen this movie hundreds of times. He's talking about local hero. It's his favorite slice of life movie. Uh, one he's watched time and again when feeling down or up, or just want to get lost in the feeling of the movie now and then. It's also a movie that was much closer to my sensibilities as a kid. It takes place in Scotland, but the humor, uh, paced speech is very in tune with my Irish family. Every little thing from each line to the grapefruit double shot in the eyes at dinner hits home. It was also a very 80s film. Everything moves along, and like the 80s formula that was prevalent in so many movies, we have the sudden upset in the last six of the film. In other films, we get a sudden montage, hurried chase, or in a comedy, we're plunged into a fast-paced, funny chase or something like that. Local hero, I think, did a pretty good job at keeping it in line with the tone of the movie rather than thrusting us into this wildly mismatched sequence of scenes to get closure. The table thing, you mentioned the table thing. It was an addition to the motorbike as a metaphor to how Mac does not belong in this environment with his big city lifestyle. Around the table, Danny is clumsy. Mac's trying to follow without knowing why. And then later, the first time he goes outside, he's nearly run over by the motorbike. Right, right, right. So as the movie progresses, we see Mac adjust to it. He he accepts this laid-back way of life. The motorbike is further and further away from him, and so the last time we see it, it's way off in the background. Which I guess means he probably figures out how to sit down at the table. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

That's that's an interesting take. I I I I can see that. You know, I would say the the biggest problem I have with local hero is its sort of Deus ex Machina ending with the CEO coming in and going, Oh, it's fine. We don't have to build here. We'll just move everything over, find another place, and now I'm making a conservatory, and that's how this is gonna be. And it just seems kind of uh I I guess it hints at that, though, in the beginning. It's a little strange, I thought. But I I do really enjoy the film. I thought it's um, you know, those small town charm films can sometimes really draw you in and be really great. Hope and glory being a great example, also, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

He also says, I s I still laugh at the lines, the situations, the music. Well, Knoffler was a genius. When I went to Ireland back in 05, I had the soundtrack on my old iPod and listened to that over and over while out taking photos and walking. I think the best feature of the film is that it felt comfortable. Every time I watch it, I'm there on the street, jetty, hotel, beach, and it does give me pangs of good memories, feelings of my childhood. So it's right at the top of my slice of life list, along with Lost in Translation and the Station Agent. Ah. Lost and the station agent.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

I I suspect probably both both of those will end up on the podcast at some point. Um one being Danklage's kind of begin to his the the the start, you know, the big rise of his career, and the other being uh a Sophia Coppola movie, you know, early on in her career. So it could be interesting.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Talking Murray. Talking Danklage. Talking Danklage could happen. Talking anybody could really happen. Talking anybody could really happen at any time, folks. There's no telling. And now we've landed on chaos. It's chaos here on Talking Pondo. I mean, talking chaos. I mean, we we did math out, talking math owl. We planned for that, but then talking Nicholson's just like, well, shit, I guess it's talking Nicholson. Yep. And I think it's a good fit between the border and the last detail. Uh one of the main reasons it's a good fit before we jump into either one of them is he uh Jack Nicholson is playing a service guy in both movies, in a way. And one is a border patrol agent, and the other he's in the navy. So he's both in uniform and trying to, you know, so it's like what a nice He carries a gun and he carries a gun in both.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

He acts as a he acts as a person of authority in both.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

But geez, which one do you want to start with?

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Uh let's start with the last detail.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Okay, we're gonna start with the last detail. Okay, so you all out there, James Bond fans, perhaps, and you might know the uh Roger Moore James Bond movies pretty well, especially the man with the golden gun, where James Bond picks up that redneck sidekick momentarily and they do that loop-to-loop. You remember that, right? It's awesome. Well, that guy was Clifton James. Yes, it is, and he was that redneck guy who was in like another James Bond movie after, I can't remember which one might have been the very next one. And uh yeah, you gave me a movie that I'm in a movie with somebody with. Clifton James is in Kidko, and he's in The Last Detail. So I immediately like, holy shit, that's crazy. We have not done Kidco yet, but I was like, who how do I know this fucking guy? Oh, now I know who this is. So what is this movie that has Clifton James in it that you gave me called?

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Clifton James, the fine character actor who is Clifton James. The last detail from 1973, rated R an hour and 44 minutes. Um, let's see, your log line is uh two Navy petty officers are ordered to escort a young enlisted sailor to prison, but decide to treat him to a few entertaining diversions along the way. It's directed by Hal Ashby, written by Robert Town, Daryl Ponixan, stars Nicholson, Quaid, and Otis Young. Storyline. Let's see here. Two body, tough-looking Navy lifers, badass Bedusky and Mule Mulhall, are commissioned to escort a young pilferer named Meadows to the brig in Portsmouth. Meadows is not much of a thief. Indeed, in his late teens, he is not much of a man at all. His great crime was to try to steal forty dollars from the Admiral Wife pet charity. For this, he's been sentenced to eight years behind bars. At first, Budusky and Mulhall view the journey as a paid vacation, but their holiday spirits are quickly depressed by the prisoner who looks prepared to break into tears at any moment. And he has the lowest self-image imaginable. Buduski gets into his head, gets it into his head to give Meadows a good time and teach him a bit about getting on in the world. Lesson one. Don't take every card life deals you. Next he teach Meadows to drink, and as a coup de gras finds a nice young whore to instruct him in love making. Mule, who worries a lot about his own position with military authority, seems pleased with Meadows' progress. However, when the trio reach Portsmouth, the game comes abruptly to an end as reality sets in.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

As it does.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Yep. I ain't going on no shit to tell Marty.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yeah. I don't think I've seen this one before.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

I saw it, I I think I saw it as a kid, bits and pieces of it, but I've never seen it all the way through, and I'm super, super glad I fucking did. And I'll say this: I get why people talk about Hal Ashby being a good director. I get why he's why they talk about how awesome he is. This is fucking this for me. Dude, I turned this on and within two minutes I was completely engrossed in this fucking thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

That's what I'm saying. I watched them both in a row because I'm like, I can't turn this off. I'm suckered in, you know. The weird thing about this movie is at one point in my life there was a VHS copy of this in in the house. Uh-huh. And it was there. And it was never. You just never watched it. And it wasn't mine. And the person who owned it was like, well, it's okay, but you know. And so it just sat there, and I always knew that cover. And I was like, well, this is an interesting cast. You got your Randy Quaid with Jack Nicholson. Carol Keynes in this.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Oh, yeah. And Blinkin You'll Miss Fucking Gilda Radner. Gilda Radner, yeah. Talking about Saturday Live earlier. But I would have liked it had I watched it near 30 years ago on that VHS tape, perhaps. And probably I probably would have gotten it. But now watching it for the first time, it it was kind of beneficial in a way because remember we watched the holdovers? Yeah. A little far back and a little, you know, a couple of seasons ago, I guess it was. And uh people say that that's trying to be a Hal Ashby movie, right? And now you watch an actual Hal Ashby movie that it's kind of similar in tone to, yeah, and you realize while as the holdovers is a very good movie, it cannot compare to an actual Hal Ashby movie because it is just simply not psychedelic. What's going on in the last details of its time? Like I said earlier in the joke of it's like now everybody's on the perpetual trip, all the crazy drug taking of the 60s is over. Now you get this kind of everything is just naturally fried out, the long gaps of what's happening. Oh, this, you know, and that's natural. While as you can't you can't recreate that in the holdovers, you can only come close, but you can't get the real deal. So it was kind of neat looking back at this kind of trippy movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

I I don't know that I I agree that the holdovers is a is you know trying to be a Hal Ashby movie, but I will say, uh, like I said, I had I've I didn't understand why people talked about Hal Ashby in such reverent tones because I hadn't really sought out a lot of his movies. And I have seen another movie by Hal Ashby called The Landlord, I believe. Oh, not Harold and Maud or being there. Oh, Harold and Maud, I guess, okay, I didn't know that he'd done that. Yeah, Harold and Maud I've seen, but but the Landlord was really kind of fucked crazy and weird and messed up. Also, and now that you say it, psychedelic and sort of fried out, very, very fried out and exhausted from all this the tripping type of thing, you know. Um yeah, but this one uh also has uh uh it has this great soul to it. Like it has this great life to it, yeah. It has this great life to it. It it it breathes and it lives and it feels very lived in and very real. You want to talk about slice of life almost. I mean that this feels you know, I mean, you have three these three men on camera for what uh an hour by themselves, you know, I mean, where it's just the three of them talking, you know, and it's it's shot well, it looks good, and it's interesting, you know, that that that crazy shit in the hotel room where the three of them are in their underwear drinking is just like he goes for more beer at one point, like he puts his clothes on and goes for more fucking beer, and I'm just thinking, yes, that's exactly you know, I've seen those parties where people get not in their underwear, but where they get messed up still, somebody goes, I want to get more beer, right so I comes back.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

It'd be fun to watch this with like Mark Brady or Nate Campbell or anybody who was navy because they're gonna point out like, oh, that's realistic, and that means this, and yeah. This is the and it's before, but I feel like this is the better fandango. Like what they were trying to go for. And that's kind of like an 80s version.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

It it's this sort of it's this sort of weird kind of camaraderie buddy movie picture. I see what you're saying, yeah. Um I like how they sort of they go from feeling bad for him, like where they're on the subway guy or they're on the tr the is it the bus? Or no, they're on the first train and they're talking to him, and he's going, I didn't even get the$40. And they're like, You're going, you're gonna do eight years to get a dishonorable discharge, and you didn't even get the fucking money, like seriously. And he's like, Yeah, you know, and and he's like, You don't even seem to care. He's like, Well, well, you know, he was just doing his job. He was just doing his stop, he fucked you over. You know, and they're just to kind of incredulously looking at him like, Do you have no backbone? Do you not care at all? You know.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

So I in the hotel, he's like, punch me, you know, he's trying to get into a fight with them.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Yeah, you punch me here, I'm gonna punch you. And then he won't punch him in the and the other and mules over there grabbing him, go, come on. He's like, No, just you know, and he's getting so frustrated because he can't get the kid to react. He can't get the kid to engage, you know, and and and to have something to do with his life because he knows they both know he's going to that prison and they're gonna tear him up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

That's what the big fist fight at the end when he tries to run off finally. Yeah. Finally engages him in the fight. But one of the things that's the most unique about both of these Nicholson movies, I think this one more so than the other. Or is it the other more than this one? I'm getting him confused, but one of them, you don't see Nicholson really do his patented freak out mode. He kind of plays it just like a more reserved, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

I think, you know, I think you get the you get the patented Nicholson freak out during the drinking stuff in the hotel room. You get a little bit of that when he's getting like we just talked about. But yeah, for the most part, he plays it pretty straight and pretty quiet. You don't get the five easy pieces screaming at the waitress Nicholson, you know, or something like that. Um, yeah, I agree with you. This this movie has a line in it that uh uh this is how deeply this movie has been in my life, okay? Uh there's a line in this movie that says, I wouldn't shit you, you're my favorite turd.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Oh, yeah, yeah. That made me crack up because I've heard that so many times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Yeah. My dad has been saying that to me since I was in since I was in fucking middle school. And you know, and I think he's even said it in front of you in my house when you were over. Uh and that, other than that, and and he used to call me Big Dummy all the time from Stanford and Son, Big Dummy. Oh, you know, it's so, and I here I am finally watching this movie, and my jaw just fucking dropped. The minute that Clifton James went, I wouldn't shit you, you're my favorite turd. I went, I had to pause it. I was like, holy shit, really? That's where that's from. Okay. Wow. It's wild how these things creep up in your life, right? Like, oh, that's what he that's the reference? Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

You're gonna talk about odd connections. So there's Clifton James again. Not only is it strange enough the whole Kid Coke connection.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Which is also my first name.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

That's true too. It is weird.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

It's it's it's the actual spelling. It's not It's the right spelling, yeah, because usually it's Clifford. You and I both know usually it's Clifford. It's never Clifton.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

So who does the music in this movie? Johnny Mandel. Now, who is that? You might say, Oh, that's the guy that did the MASH theme song, right? Right. You know what else he did? Too close for Comfort theme song. Oh, of course he did. And so it all just comes full circle again. As you may or may not know, uh, Gene and myself tried to do a Too Close for Comfort podcast. Well, we didn't try, we did. We did one for a while. We got about halfway through season three of covering all the episodes, didn't complete it, but yeah. Then it's like, as soon as I saw that name, I'm like, wait a minute, that's the guy who did the damn theme crazy. Just crazy. That's wild. It does not mean anything to anybody else, but it means something to me. Like and subscribe. I also like the starkness of the movie. You know, it's just they beat the shit out of him at the end, finally, because he tries to run. And then it's just like, you're gone.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

It's over.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

You're in jail. You knew that's what's gonna happen, no goodbyes.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

It's just yeah, you broke the spell, it's done.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

That's that's part of that 70 early 70s, just kind of not necessarily bleak, but just so matter of fact kind of, you know, it it is kind of bleak, but that's but it is it's both, though.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Yeah, it's matter-of-fact, and it is because it's matter-of-fact, it's so bleak, right? And that's because the the society is forcing us to take this kid who stole$40 out of a box to fucking prison for eight years because some old woman because some old woman is mad about that, right? Like, I mean, I get that he should be punished, sure, but eight years in prison, holy crap, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:42

You get six years, you get up two years early for good behavior. Man, at least they were like try to show him a good time along the way and give him a little bit of life experience, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

I remember early on, it's like uh I could see him like they were they were walking by, about to get on the train, and he's they stop by a little kiosk, and he you could clearly see him stealing a candy bar.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

And then and then he's on the train eating, and I'm like, this dude, you know, crypto. Yeah, he's a total clepto, you know, and he gets caught and he starts crying about how you know he steals shit he doesn't even need.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

I have it already.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Uh-huh. One of one of the things I found ballsy about this movie is shooting on a moving train like that.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Because you have to make those backgrounds match. I mean, he's shooting the the through the windows, you know, so you've at least got to it's at least gotta be the right sunny, it's at least gotta be, you know, the right kind of foliage at certain times, you know, for it to all match up. And he did a really great job cheating it or cutting in and cutting out without with giving you enough background to make you feel like you're not trapped on a train on a set, right? On a you know, on a stage. You're actually on a moving train, but then he's also shooting a lot of close-ups and different angles that don't involve the window to kind of cheat it, right? So he can get away with not having to match the background so much, right? So I thought that was really smart of him.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

I also like towards the end of the movie where they don't have a whole lot of time left, but they're like, You want to go back there, or we could do this? Or he's like, No, if I we do the same thing again, it won't be the same, yeah. So we could have a picnic, he says, is a joke, and then next thing you know, they're out there doing the makeshift. It's like, well shit, we'll do that, you know. We gotta do something this time because you're you're going away, man. So yeah, you won't do it, we're gonna do it. You don't have no hot dog buns, but they they made do. Yeah, just ate the hot dogs on sticks. I loved it. That's when he was just sitting there and decides, fuck it, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a run for it finally.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

He doesn't make it very far, though. No, no, it's it's um one one of my other uh notes here is that it's it's really for me. This is really, really good writing. Like everything about it is necessary. There is no there is no throwaway in this film at all. You you there are things that you could cut out if you wanted to, but everything adds to the way the movie is supposed to be, right? And and moves the story along and gives you different things. Um just really good writing. You know, everybody's old enough for a beer. It's a great line. Oh, yeah. You know, when he goes in that bar and fucking, you know, he knows that bartender's beat one of his friends upside the head with a stick, with a stick under the bar, and he's pulls the gun out and shit. Oh man. And that's that moment that starts their bonding because they come running out and they're laughing their asses off and they dive into the taxi and they take off. And it's a little Nicholson freak out there. Yeah, but you get that three Musketeers kind of mo that's like, all right, here come the here go the three musketeers on their adventure for this five days.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

And they're all so they all have this, you know, they're all kind of in that same boat together, you know. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, What? You didn't even get the money. Well, you're fucked. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

I I I this is for me, this is kind of really this is where Nicholson gets his reputation for being a great actor. Like he he chews the scenery in a lot of these scenes. He's really, really good. He's a leading man in the film. Uh he's just firing on all cylinders. It's he's really fucking good. You know, they go he goes in and fucking picks that fight with those Marines in that bathroom and shit. Involves, you know, Mule and Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

He's just trying to get that fight happening with it. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

It's like you better get ready because you're gonna be in that jail for eight years.

unknown 28:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

You're gonna be in a lot of fights.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

I call it karate, I call it motherfucker. But but about 55 minutes in, you can feel like the writing's so good, they're starting to let you feel the wheels starting to come off of this bus, right? Like it's starting the edges are starting to unravel. It's you know, it's not gonna last forever. There's some, you know, a lot of deep shit is coming up, you know. And what do they do? They go find the kid a hooker, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Um, it is 1973, much like another movie from the exact same year we watched called Enter the Dragon. There's a scene where pick your prostitute. What is up with 1973 and having that scene in movies?

SPEAKER_03 28:46

I assume because that's a that's a reality from the decades past. I don't know. I not something I I have any experience with. And that was like before that, though, they stumble into the cult. Remember, and they do remember they do the chanting, which then they go to the beat-nick restaurant and he does the chant, which leads them to the party, which then That's right.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Oh, and the party animal doesn't quite have that scene because Pondo comes in dressed in the punk rock outfit, and you're left wondering why are you still wearing that costume? But that's a whole diversion. I'll kill myself. Yeah, the the chanting. That was that was uh of its time. Like, why did they wander into some random hotel room and Radner?

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Very weird. Nancy Allen's in this all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Oh yeah, for like two seconds. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Chant. Chant, yes, I I love it so much. It's uh you haven't left yet.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Remember when they finally get to where they're supposed to be, and they're like, no, we're we gotta talk to the higher up. We're not because the guy's trying to give him shit. Like, you didn't get your papers done. He's like, look, he's here. Come on. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Well, he's telling him, you know, we've we you're a you're a lieutenant, you've been in this doing this for about five minutes. We're lifers, like, you're not gonna play this game because we want to talk to your boss. Yeah, and it's Michael Moriarty, yeah. Michael Moriarty, yep.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

He has hair.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Yep. Yeah, the the and the idea of a brothel to me is just kind of crazy, like you know, it's like you know, that's a just a that's a crazy ass fucking idea. And and oh, and losing it, yeah. And the craziest thing about this movie is the most unexpected thing was Carol Kane Topless. I was just like, really? That's okay. This is the 70s. I didn't, I mean, I'd always knew her as the funny girl from Princess Bride. That was you know, taxi or whatever. Um, and the and the fairy Inscrooged. So weird. Um and it was a weird, awkward scene.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

It's awkward, but the it's there's a realism.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

There's a realism to it.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

There it is. That was realistic we're not playing this for laughs. This is genuine the next thing that happened.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

We're just genuine and earnest, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Yeah, it doesn't feel like it's forced. It's just this is just what happened.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Yeah. There's a reaction shot looking down the stairs when they, you know, they walk the kid up the stairs and in behind the dope the bars after they turn him over. And that they put the and Hal puts the camera up at the top of the stairs where the bars are looking down, which would probably be the kid's perspective. And you see the two sailors looking up, and you can kind of see this fucking kind of like heartbreak on their faces. It's really good where they're just they're like, oh shit, maybe we should have let him go. You know, like you can almost a moment of that is there. It's great. It's great. And then of course they have to tear their asses, yeah. Yeah, and like you said, then they have to go into the office and deal with this this chicken shit officer who wants to give them a bunch of shit about their paperwork, you know. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

I like the last shot of the movie too. You you know it's gonna go all the way until they walk around the building and then cut. Yeah, you don't expect it to fade out before then. It's like, no, this is gonna because of the tone of the whole thing, you're just you know it's just gonna hold. Yeah, yeah. Uh it's one of those things like you have to see it. I could sit here and try to describe it, but you kind of have to watch the movie to understand what I'm talking about with that shot, I guess. Yeah, yeah, I can't put it into words.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

I my my last note is that I didn't like the end, but I don't think I was supposed to.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Yeah, it's like a melancholy ending. It's too. If it had a happy ending, you might forget about it.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Might forget about it.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah. And now it's been a couple days, and I still think of the oh yeah, they did all that, but then it was almost like taking him to the execution, you know. It's like, well, he ain't fucking dead, but for all intents and purposes, for the next eight years he is, you know. Yep, yeah. And he'll be out of 179.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Yeah. Well, he's it's there's at one point where he's like, they s like he, when you get out, you'll be it'll be 25, you'll be 26 years old or 25 years old, and he's like, I won't even want to live anymore.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

It's like, oh bro, he might not even care by then, right? Yeah, he'll he'll be like uh I'm gonna get you sucker when fucking what's his name gets out of jail and his fashion sense is all wrong. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Oh yeah, yeah, the the the sort of the fake huggy bear. I can't remember. Yeah, metals would be like huggy bear. But yeah, I I I really enjoyed this. I think it's it's a perfect example also of a low budget movie.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

He worked, he worked with really good constraints. It's three actors, it's a it's a pretty short script. There's there while there are a lot of their locations, probably was was the biggest you know, part moving to all these different places to shoot. It seemed like in logistics, it seemed like he really was able to minimize the amount of interaction he had to have with like the outside world and shit. He controlled that really well. I thought it was really, really well done. And again, it's got that um, like you said, that fried out kind of weird late 60s look. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I bet I have that time. Yeah. I I give it four and a half stars.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Four and a half, yeah, I give it four.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

But I mean I might go in a different, you know, because you keep thinking about it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

So it's on it differently. I think it's, you know, it's it's it had also kind of a little bit of feel of like a midnight run to it. I think it influences a lot of movies that come later. You know.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah, anything where we gotta anything where we gotta take somebody from one place to another and they don't want to go. And we do things along the way that give you life experience is basically the last detail. Or is it the last detail? Detail. Detail. I think it's detail because that's what they say it's like you're going on a detail, like it's the Princess of Monaco or Monaco. This would be for you to decide.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Monaco.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

And so in the border part two, Meadows gets out in the early 80s and he moves to uh where are they at in that movie? El Paso. El Paso. And he becomes a border patrol agent working alongside who this guy who looks like the guy. But no, that didn't really happen, but that's me.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Uh well, so it turns out that Kaitel lived and Nicholson has gone away, and Kaitel is now a bad guy, and he's the young officer who has to who's for who discovers the whole plot going on, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Well, you want to talk about who is the bad guy? What is this early 80s anti-hero? I guess you could call it, moving the border. I can't work for anybody.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

The border, 1982, rated R, one hour and 48 minutes. A corrupt border agent decides to clean up his act when an impoverished woman's baby is put up for sale on the black market. Is that what happens? Is that what happens? Was he corrupt before? Directed by Tony Richardson, writers Derek Washburn, Wallin Green, David Freeman, stars Jack Nicholson, Harvey Kaitel, Valerie Perrine. Um, storyline. U.S. Border Patrol agent Charlie Smith just wants to do a good job and provide for his wife, but between her demands for a more affluent lifestyle and the importuning of Charlie's partner Kat to take part in illegal exchanges and activities for bribes, Charlie gets caught up in helping smuggle illegal immigrants across the Texas border. When one of them, a young Mexican girl named Maria, loses her baby to abductors who plan to sell a child, Charlie decides to take a stand for her and against the corruption he's fallen into.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Is is that what happened? I guess that's sort of some of what happened. Where do I even begin? This is one I remember from cable. Early cable. Saw it a lot, rediscovered it on DVD, thought it was amusing, showed it to Ray. Ray showed it to his dad, he liked it so much, and then tucked it away for about another 15, 20 years or so and watched it again this week and went, I don't remember any of this shit. Now, is it because it's the Blu-ray copy finally? I don't think that added that much to it. But if you want to talk about picture quality to start with, I was like, this movie seems really low budget in the beginning. Like, how much money did they have? And I look it up and it said something like 22 million. I'm like, 22 million?

SPEAKER_03 37:55

22 million dollars for this movie? Well, it's 13 and a half on IMDB.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

I read a little bit further. It said initially had a$5 million budget, but then Nicholson got attached to it, and the budget shot all the way up. Now that makes sense. That makes sense. That's why the movie looks rugged. And it was originally going to be shot by who else? Vilmos Zygmond, here in the but there was a strike before this movie happened, and he moved on to another project. Oh, it's a strike movie. So when they put it back on, uh they uh had they had to hire somebody else to be the DP, but then Vilmos came in and helped them reshoot the ending, which because the original ending didn't test well. The original ending was Nicholson blows up Border Patrol.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Yeah, yeah, I read that. Yeah, that's that's great. Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

The new ending's about as just goofy.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Nicholson goes to prison after blowing up the Border Patrol headquarters. Yeah, what a great ending.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Yeah, that's a good call to re probably to reshoot that. We'll keep that ending for three billboards that's many years later. But another strange thing about this movie is I'm watching it, and for the first few minutes, I also go, okay, something's off again. What is weird about this? Pause director, British. Once again, we have another British guy making a movie about American South. And I'm like, well, he did an okay job this time, but I just showed the little weirdness. Isn't that strange if that keeps happening and we keep finding them? Shit, we're gonna have to do Paris, Texas, probably at some point. Kind of bizarre. And then just yeah, I noticed the same thing. This movie strangely sits next to Born in East LA in my collection because of the alphabet. Now, how fucked up is that? You got the poster of Jeff Nicholson as the car, and then you have Cheat sneaking through the fence right next to him. That's cool. Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Well, so I so okay. So I imagine that there's a pitch. Imagine we're pitching this movie. It's the border, right? All right, so you know, you're sitting, you sit down with the executive exec goes, okay, give me your give me your pitch. And you go, all right, the border. All right, so here's your log line. It's the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the guy goes, Okay, so tell me the story. And you say, All right, gotta start the movie off with a bang, right? All these movies gotta start off with a bang. So what are we gonna do? We're gonna be earthquake, we're gonna do an earthquake. Well, we don't have the money for an earthquake. Well, don't worry. We're just gonna shake the shit out of the camera. Yeah, that's such a bad effect. Yeah, and uh, it'll be fine. We'll throw a few you know rocks around, if there's a dust, it'll look great, you know. And you're just like right away, you're like, Yeah, it looks like a TV movie. And much like and to start with, much like Clerk, the director, the clerks, the director decides to play an entire fucking song over the credits and the montage credits of the movie, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Yeah. Well, who did the city?

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Because this is 82, and I think that that's you know what you do. Like, you know, start of Tootsie in 82 is an entire fucking song over the movie.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

It gives you a chance to just get your popcorn and sit down, right? You didn't miss anything. Oh, they're just walking.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

It it's a movie about a poor underpaid cop who fucks with the lives of poor underpaid people, and it's the poor policing the poor while the rich get fucking richer. I mean, it's like it's like one of the greatest metaphors for fucking American capitalism, I think I've seen in a long time.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Yeah, they explain the whole reason why, like, oh, you can take two people out, but then they gotta have their jobs back, and he's like, Well, I don't like this, but I guess this is the way it works, but then it gets even more corrupt as it goes, and you know, there's drugs involved and people getting killed, and yeah. Little places for Jack Nicholson to slowly lose his cool, but he's trying to he's trying to play it normal. Like the most interesting thing about the movie is the actors, right? I think because the the material's not the greatest in the world, but what they're doing with it, like between Nicholson and Kaitel playing scenes on their faces, and you can really like they're developing their these two-dimensional characters pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

You know, Warren Oates is great too. He's in this, and I I you know, I think he's a hell of an actor, and and uh it's it's another one of these kind of 80s films that's just kind of a shame because you know, I told you like you know how hard it was back in the day to get two good comedic actors together and to do a good movie. Like that's why Ghostbusters and shit like that are so great, you know, because a lot of times you get stuff like Spies Like Us or the Great Outdoors instead, where they're they're funny enough, but they're not hitting on all cylinders, right? They're missing and this is kind of the same thing where it's it's not hitting on all it's just not dramatic enough. The story's just not dialed in enough. And it's it's a shame because you've got you've really pulled in some great talent for the film. Like holy shit, you know, Warren Oates, Nicholson, and and Kaitel on the same screen. This should be smoking. And they're trying to do it. Should be freaking smoking. And they yeah, they're doing a great job with working with what they've got. It's just that the material is not gonna be an Oscar mode. It's just not there, yeah. And damaged it, you know, it's a shame because it, you know, it's got the potential with that that cast in it. If the if the script was good enough, you know, if they'd really dialed that script in. Yeah. But you know, it it's it's a it's a really weird film. I I don't you're right, it's hard to cheat root for anybody. All the women in this movie are shallow and vapid. Oh, yeah, except except for the immigrant woman that who's trying to get across the border and get a better life. That's who you're supposed to sympathize with. I think the American women are so hard to even give a crap about. You know, his wife just god, dude, get a divorce, stop, tell her no, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

It's much like big night where you want to root for the guy. Guy, but then halfway through, and in this one, he slaps his wife. Why slapping was so prevalent back in the day? Men and women were being slapped left and right. Yeah. We don't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Dude, we slap. I mean, well, it's hard for us to talk. We have a movie with it's gotta have flipping me.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

So many movies with slapping. We did it. That's right. We have slapping in our movie. Maybe that's what I was attaching to here. But then you go, he slapped her, and you go, oh fuck. Now he's I was already not really rooting for him, but now there's nobody to root for. But then you go, well, I guess that you're supposed to be on the immigrant side more than anybody. That's that anti-hero thing where it's like he's gonna be an asshole, she's an asshole. There's no reason to be hitting anybody. But I do like when he like throws the grill into the swimming pool and shit like that where he just can't take anymore. It's classic Nickel saying, ah, fuck this type. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

There's some great moments. It's it's also now, you know, with in this political and this in this political climate, this is probably very anti-right considering the it is kind of pro at least pro-immigration or has an empath, you know, empathetic lean or sympathetic lean towards towards that immigration for sure. Um if this movie was made today, you know, that there's a scene where she's asleep and he's sitting in the living room drinking beer, you know. Oh yeah. And I was like, if this scene was being made today, he'd you know that he'd be playing Xbox or something and drinking a beer, you know, while she was asleep. It's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

That scene is a really good example of the director photography of this movie, is something I noticed this time. Is this DP really likes working in thirds? Ah, yeah. Did you notice this? Uh uh for the majority of the movie, Jack Nicholson is in the left third of the screen. He's almost always there, even in that scene you talked about. He's more positioned to the left side of the screen. Once the camera trails out, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And over and over again that happens. And then towards the end of the movie where he has his moral flip, you start seeing him on the right third of the screen. And I'm thinking, well, that had to have been on purpose because there's just so many deliberate shots where there's all this open space in the center or in the far right of the screen or the other direction. But Jack is always on the far left for the first like hour of the movie. Kind of kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

I mean, I may be pulling this out of my ass, but I think I'm thinking I'm right. I've read that I read that historically right-handed is considered to be the good hand, and the left hand is considered to be the hand of the devil or the bad hand. Yeah, yeah, the sin, the sin hand, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:47

So right with you, I'll be left with you. Jeez, why do people hate left-handers so much? Yeah. The connotations, my god. But yeah, that's what I thought too. I'm like, oh, they're making his his moral switch, and now he's gonna fucking pay everybody back.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

It's there's a lot of convenient circumstance to make this film work.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Well, movie the week type stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

It's you know that so okay, so she suddenly so she just is gonna basically say, here's a duplex, and we're moving, right? You live in we live in LA and you and you work in LA, but now you're moving to Texas and you're gonna buy me a duplex because who the fuck doesn't want to live right next to share a wall with your neighbor?

SPEAKER_00 47:32

And it turns out more shit every day.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Yeah, and it turns out that the woman who's convincing you to have the duplex, her husband happens to be a border guard, and so does your husband. And so now they're gonna live next door to each other and they're gonna be partners. It's all a it's all just kind of a like a bunch of convenient circumstances to make the story work, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 47:55

That's I'm glad that they didn't go weird with the couples, because I was like, oh no, please, please don't do that.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

I think the internal logic of the movie is kind of fucked. You know, I mean, I it if there's no like, okay, early on when they're driving around in the truck, right, and they're driving past the the kids are throwing the rocks at the truck, and so they they chase the kids in the truck, but then they stop because they see the people behind them, you know, stinking across the border, right? And they get out of the truck and go run to chase those people who run away and they don't catch anybody, right? And he goes, uh what's he say? Day workers, they're going across to work and then they're going back home across the border. It's pointless to try and stop them. To says that to Nicholson. And all I could think of is then why the fuck did you stop and get out of the car?

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Well, we gotta put up the show at least.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

You gotta put up a show. My ass. Like, you know, let's not do anything. Sure you can. If it's pointless, what's the point? Well, I think that's do something else anyway.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Well, yeah, he wants to go work in the park services again. He just wants to feed the ducks, he doesn't want to hunt the ducks. That's the difference between and waterbeds, man. That is 80s. My next note, the waterbed, you know so 80s. This piece of furniture right here that has my monitor, it is the last piece of a waterbed set from circa the time period of this movie. Wow. Yeah, we had one of those big sloshy fucking things. Nobody has a waterbed anymore, do they? It's such a no, nobody does that. Yeah, that's not a thing. They tricked me into my last one almost 30 years ago where it had a series of tubes falling between the tubes. So stupid. Yeah, water things. Wow. It is comical. He's coming home and there's that hose, and it's like, we know what that is. We know what that is.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

I had one when I was 12. My mom bought me one from my room when I was 12, and it was a queen or a full-size waterbed. And it was, you know, it had the thermostat so you could adjust the temperature on it. And uh, I had one of those fuzzy blankets and shit. So and I just I I love to sleep cold anyways, and a you know, under a bunch of blankets. So I'd get a bunch of blankets and just turn the waterbed off and just crack the window during winter and sleep on the waterbed. They were super uncomfortable. They were not fun because you you get you know, the waterbed tends to have a hump, it tends to have a a rounded sort of arc to it, and you see what you end up doing is sliding to the corners or sliding to the side.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

You'd wake up in a corner. Nobody wants that. And you're like, no, it contours to you, and no, it does not. There was whole waterbed stores back then.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

Oh god, yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah, that's all they did was sell water. Yep. Talk about something that kids today would might not be like, What the what is that? It's like, well, that's a trend from the past that you don't really want to bring back. So we can make them better now. Now, how does the waterbed compare to the air mattress? Good question. At least you don't slide off of those in the night, but nope. There's like no give to an air mattress, I would think.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

I I mean, I it's uh to me, like an air mattress, it's it's kind of the same thing. It depends. Like some air mattresses I've I've I've laid on have been kind of like that, where you kind of roll off the side of them. Others not so much. I think it's all on how they're designed, actually. But his the his wife, okay. So his wife's friend, that one, the one who's like, you don't want me to go off in public, that one. If she was a male character in a movie, she would be the friend who claims to have a lot of sexual experience and gives terrible advice, you know. That that friend in in like a rom-com, you know, or whatever. You've always got that, you know, friend who's like, Oh, what you should do, man, is just go up to her and you know, you know, whatever. Hey Debbie, how's it going? That's cool, you know, all that stupid shit. Uh she just seems like the female version of that to me. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

I had that or she'd be trying to hook up with Jack Nicholson's character if it was a rom-com. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

I love that that I love that that dude blows his own head off with the shotgun.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Oh my god, isn't that there's some really brutal in this movie? Like there's that, and then at the very end, when the thing falls on Harvey Kaitel, and I'm guessing that must be the reshoot ending where it's like, Yes, well, we gotta be gory. It's like, do ya?

SPEAKER_03 52:51

Happened fast, too. It was just like because he's just like I'm so disappointed in you, and and and the dudes were instead of the dude say anything back, his reply is like bullet in the tire. Pew motherfucker.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Well, it wasn't me, it was the cartel. Here's your baby back, and now I'm gonna go live my life. Like nothing happened. That's right. That's right. Yeah, that's I say it could have been a Charles Bronson movie.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Yeah, Warnote's dead, he blew it, he dies in the he dies in the exploding uh Bronco.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Along with the guy that looked like the guy who was trying to buy the movie an entourage. You know what I'm talking about? I'm like, this guy's stereotypical.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

They they really peck and paw the shit out of the last 20 minutes of the movie. Like it really turns into like a kind of a like a violent peck and paw type of film where it's like, wow, okay, you guys really went for that. That's good. And and now what?

SPEAKER_00 53:58

What happens when she loses that kid again? Because it's gonna happen again. Maybe she's not paying attention. Here, sure, I'll hold your kid, and that's where the kid was the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Oh, dirty.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

You know, we've already sold the kid. No, the kid's with the same woman who stole the kid. Yeah. Well, and then she just runs off and then they retrieve the kid. And there you go. Kid found blows up the fucking police station. See, at least this way he can get away with it, right?

unknown 54:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

But what's he gonna do? Go back to his life? We're moving away, we're moving back to California.

SPEAKER_03 54:38

Well, and it's his wife. It's so we I don't know. It's such a weird movie. It has these weird, like, you know, when he shows up with the girl and uh at his house and and drops her off, and then he leaves and comes back, and she's all don't leave me, don't leave me, his wife, you know. And he's like, I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

You know, and he hits himself at the car door, and it looks like that wasn't an accident. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

Oh be right back.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

It's like those little bits of the crazy Jack, but not shining levels of Jack.

SPEAKER_03 55:14

Oh man. So 1982, this this is uh definitely I remember seeing this on cable when as soon as I I put it on, and I think it was when somewhere about 20 or 30 minutes in the movie, I remember going, Yeah, I saw this on cable. I remember seeing this on cable, sure.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Um but I never saw it in the theater, and I don't even remember hearing about it when I was a kid. And the the Blu-ray doesn't look that much different than the DVD. I mean it looks sharper, but the movie's always got that kind of look to it. Yeah, I remember this one from like early HBO Showtime. This was one that Bobby was into, so that's why I remember it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

It's got that um it's got that haze over it. If you look at if you look at footage of if you if the one only other idea way I can explain it is like it's got that late 70s, early 80s kind of like muck over it. I don't know if it's the film, the type of film or the processing that they use, but if you watch the beginning of Tootsie, where you where it's all the scenes of New York City and it's all mucky and kind of grainy yellow and gross or a sex movie. Yeah, maybe a little Pelham 123 in certain points. It it feels it looks a little bit like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:32

It's just got that look to it. Yeah, must be the combination of the lenses and the film stock, I'm guessing, right?

SPEAKER_03 56:38

Yeah, possibly the you know, maybe the processing that they chose to, yeah, the way it film was processed. Uh yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Well, you look at Jack in both movies, it's pretty different characters, right? You you you don't really think about the other movie when you're watching another one. You don't think, oh, that's the guy from The Last Detail, or as he he sinks into both of these roles. It's like uh it reminds me of this interview I was watching with Malcolm McDowell, and they were telling him, You're one of those actors where, or maybe somebody told him this at one point, where the audience knows that you're acting, but you convey that you're in on it with them almost like in a wink. So it's like, we know you're Jack, but you're Jack as this doing this. So it's like we're getting both, right? We're getting the character and we're getting the persona of Jack, if that makes sense.

unknown 57:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

That's why as a director, I always like to let the actors put a little bit of themselves in their roles, right? Because you need to let them leave a little piece of their personality in there too, because they're the ones bringing that person to life, kind of.

SPEAKER_03 57:50

Well, and that's I think that's partially why, like, you know Eastwood's a perfect example of that. Where no matter what whatever movie that you're in, at least it's there's a little bit of Clint Eastwood in whatever the hell he's he's acting in, right? You can't stop being Clint Eastwood. So it's not that he can completely as an actor uh washes away himself and and assumes the role, he assumes the role as Clint Eastwood, right? It's like Heston. It's why I say Heston's the worst actor of all time, because he doesn't pull away from he's always Charlton Heston in whatever movie I'm in. I've been her. I'm you monkeys, take your hands off me. It's always Charlton Heston, you know. And so uh and and I'm making fun of his his delivery too, but I just feel even in his acting, he never really, you know, he was never able to really assume the role, even as himself, to a point where he's he he himself he backed away from it in the role as soon, you know, became the thing that you were seeing on camera. And Nicholson's able to do that, yeah. Uh you know uh Clint Eastwood's able to do that, DiCaprio is able to do that, the best are able to do that. You know, Tom Cruise is able to do that, Brad Pitt's able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 59:10

That's where we're saying that Malcolm McDowell does that, especially like in Clockwork Orange, where he's such the iconic character, but we know that you're the actor kind of reveling and playing, bringing it to life. So we're getting both of you kind of. I'm the dude playing the dude disguised as the other dude. And now you pulled back and gave the audience something to connect.

SPEAKER_03 59:31

Yeah. Downey Jr. is a perfect example in that movie. Watching him revel in playing the guy who's playing the other guy is really quite fun. I keep thinking that he didn't say anything, and it's just like, well, what is that again? He could have pulled it off, but it'd be a totally different role. Yeah. Downey is Lloyd Dobbler, is a completely different movie. Well, what do you give the border?

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Lloyd.

SPEAKER_03 59:55

Lloyd Downey.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

I give the border two and a half. I give it two.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

Not watching it again. Um, but I I it was fun to watch the three of them in the film. They're very, very good together. It's just a shame they didn't have more to sink their teeth into.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Yeah. How does it compare to uh the Sicario trilogy? Uh 80s version.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

I would watch it before before I'd watch Wind River again.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Yeah, yeah. Um, feature with like Sicario, maybe or yeah, I I could see it as a double feature with Hell or High Water, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

Or and Sicario too, maybe for the whole immigration and border themes, too. Yeah, I can see what you're yeah, I could see that. There's isn't there even an like a night vision scene in this? In it in it?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

Not in this movie, it's just dark. It's just dark, okay. It was dark and running around. But that's where the Blu-ray comes in handy because you could see things a little better. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Kino Lorber, once again.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Oh, God bless Kino Lorber and Arrow. You guys, uh you guys make some of the best Blu-ray stuff out there. I we I I look for that stuff constantly. Um, and it and you know, but it's a free plug, but if you guys, you know, if you're out there and you're listening and you want to sponsor the show or send us some free Blu-rays, please please feel free to. We'll be mad at you. So, what do you got for me next week, Marty?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:21

Very funny to find the Blu-ray of the border like two weeks before it came on the show. I'm like, what? Oh, that's perfect timing. You don't have to watch the DVD. Okay, so next week, uh, end of the season. End of season three. It only means we're starting season four the week after that. We don't disappear, we don't go on a hiatus or anything, we roll right in, and next season will be a lot more guests, twice as many, actually. One just confirmed while we were doing the show. How funny is that? But anyway, so this has been a varied season. I'd say out of the three that we've done, this is the most movies all over the place. But similarities in movies. We had a lot of themes that happened, like we had a lot of the southwestern movies that we just worked through.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

Yeah, the southwestern trilogy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

Yeah, a lot of a lot of quirky movies. We did the whole we did the whole Star Wars trilogy. Oh, yeah, that too. How can I forget that? Uh, we did a lot of quirky movies, a lot of quirky indie, a lot of quirky comedy, and most importantly, we did all these you know famous cult British comedy movies, right? Indeed. We did a bunch of them. And so it make it only makes sense to end the season with one of them. Oh, really? And it's one that I've never seen. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but boy, do I hear it brought up time and time again on podcasts, and especially comedians and British comedians, as it being a very important movie to them. So we're gonna watch it with nail and I with nail and eye next week. All right, cool. For a second, I thought you were gonna be like, you picked the same movie I did. No, that's the criterion collection, and let the blind picks commence.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

Right on, okay. I love it. Um, with nail and I, that's great. I'm gonna give you the very flip side of with nail and I, I think. Um, and I agree, we're gonna go with actually, yeah. So this is the last of season four three. We're moving into season four. In season four, we will soon hit our 200th film. Yeah, right. And so I have a big one for that that I want to give us, but this is the other one that I wanted to give us, which is the end big end of the season finale, like you said. So I'm gonna give you um, I'm gonna give you the commitments.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

Oh, I almost feel like we've done that already, but we haven't. And that totally fits into the theme of all these full Monty uh waking Ned Devine, local hero. You can make a playlist out of those.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:06

Well, and that's what I thought, you know, this is the perfect time to bring it in. I was gonna do it on the 200s, but then thematically this really fits, and it's also perfect for the end of the season. Kind of this is one of my personally favorite movies of all time. Um, so I'm curious to see what you think and not have a conversation about it. Uh, I know quite a bit about the film and how it was made and things like that, so I'm excited to discuss it. And Alan Parker. Yeah, Alan Parker's great. Great fame at some point, yeah. Yes. Oh god, so many others, it'll be great. But yeah, all right. Well, that's a great with Nail and I and the commitments is probably gonna be a really good one. I'm looking forward to that. But and but I gotta say, talking Nicholson was awesome. It was good. I really enjoyed it. It was an easy week of of really uh watching two really uh great uh a great actor watch two interesting movies, make two interesting movies. So I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Yeah, bring on some more.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:01

Uh let's see, you want to get out of here on a quote?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

I married a banana.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:08

Chant, chant. You ever been married? Not so you'd notice.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

I married a banana. I married a fucking banana. Isn't that the line he said?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:22

Yeah. Everyone's old enough to drink a beer. Later.