Talking Pondo: Running Time and Sinners

 In this episode, Marty gives Clif the movie Running Time to watch and Clif gives Marty the movie Sinners to watch. Includes a season recap!

First up is Running Time, the black-and-white, real-time heist thriller directed by Josh Becker and starring Bruce Campbell. Shot to appear as a single take, the film leans into guerrilla film making energy and cult sensibilities. Marty and Clif break down the strengths of its momentum and ambition, and whether the experiment fully pays off.

Then it’s on to Sinners, a contemporary genre film packed with symbolism, social commentary, and big thematic swings. The conversation turns toward modern film making, allegory versus overt messaging, and how we judge movies in the moment versus years later.

 #TalkingPondo #RunningTime #Sinners #FilmPodcast #IndieFilm #ModernCinema #MovieDiscussion 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Time thrown in that type of vibe, you know, like or crossroads, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Like something like crossroads at one point. It totally turns in the crossroads at one point. But I'd pitch it as it's a prequel to near dark. Because you got your Confederate vampires that have been around for hundreds of years. They're kind of pack animals, and they're steaming in the sunlight. Remember when he shows up at the house and he's steaming? I'm like, oh, he's a very dark vampire. You know.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Welcome to season four of Talking Pondo. Talking Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty give each other a film to watch and talk about them in detail. Some episodes will include a special guest.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Ash Williams opens up a juke joint, will not be seen this week, so we may bring you the following dead height. So, in other words, we won't be watching Ash vs. Evil Dead season two, episode one, where Ash does open a bar. But okay, let me do my other one now because this might be better. Michael B. Jordan remakes the parent trap, will not be seen this week, so we will bring you the following heist.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yeah. I guess we I guess freaky Friday doesn't work. That was my thought.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

You know, it was the low hand was in there somewhere. You know, because we watched Sinners and we watched running time. That's right. And I had to re-watch the first 45 minutes of centers because I had latent parent trap syndrome, and I didn't know he was two people because I wasn't paying close enough attention. But I caught it and I watched it again. So you watched that movie for 45 minutes and didn't realize they were twins? Well, it's funny because I went, he's with both of those women.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

What the fuck? That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

And then I haven't big night flashbacks, you know, and I realized, oh, wait a minute. No, he's in a dual role here. But, anyways, we'll get paying that much attention the first time. I'm glad I watched it again, though. But we're back. It's it's uh talking pondo solo episode. That's right. And so much as there's two of us, I don't know if they're that solo or duo.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Uh for those playing at home and keeping score or playing along with the home game, I think this is season four, episode three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Oh, and you know what else happens this week? This is the season recap. So we gotta pull up that little Google document there, and we're gonna briefly go over the movies of season three and talk about, you know, if we want to do a little revisionist history and that's right. Because we've had guests on the other episodes and we couldn't do a recap. Because otherwise it'd be a really long episode. Uh before we get into the season recap, I'm gonna do a little bit of uh listener mail. Because it's not viewer mail, but we've done that joke into the ground. So I'm gonna start with uh response on our episode about the border. So, friend of the show, Ray writes in again about the border and says, Ah, a classic film. I remember having that on one of the many iPods I used to own. Remember when you used to have movies inside of an iPod to people? That was a while back. 160 gig iPod Classic and hold a lot of movies. And uh last week we covered Vision Quest. Yes. Yes, we did. And uh we had a little mini contest where we posted the video of uh Gambler by Madonna. That's right. And somebody did write in and say, Vision Quest? Is that the movie coming soon to Talking Pondo? They were right. That's all ancient history now, because that was last week, but I did want to mention that congratulations, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:08

You are the grand prize winner. Um, you win five minutes of unbroken eye contact. Please hit us with a link where we can hit you with Zoom and uh we'll just stare at you for five minutes. You can stare back, it'll be great.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

That too. That was the real prize. We had Ben on on that one. That was a good episode over at the Two Vague podcast. But uh for the last of our follow-up here, uh, it just keeps coming back to Pondo. Well, gee, maybe that's because that's a part of the name of your show and the name of your company. And if you want to know the origin, you can always go back and listen to that party animal episode. I feel like putting that link in the footer as origin episode, you know. But we have a little bit more to say about that one. Uh nobody out there was asking what Pondo's CP was. Maybe somebody was, but somebody out there might not be also asking, who is Dr. Pondo? Well, Dr. Pondo is Matthew Causey, the guy who played Pondo Sinatra and the Party Animal. He became a doctor. Not like a medical doctor, but he was a college professor, professor. What what was he professor? What was he uh teaching? Was it film state? Theater.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

It was it was he was teaching theater, if I'm not mistaken. So doctor. Yeah, it was in Scotland. In Scotland or Ireland, I think. Wow. Moved jumped across the pond. He had to get a get so he had to run away from the stink of that film and literally had to leave go across the pond, which uh I don't think was right.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

But um so if you ever see Dr. Pondo, you know what that's a reference to now. And speaking of being across the pond, the secret is real, people. If you visualize something and you put it out there, it it it it appears, it comes back to you, right? And the and the living proof of this is our episode on the party animal. We talked about how we had been looking for the UK cut for years. Within a week of that episode dropping, the link to the UK uh cut was discovered by us. Great! Wasn't a direct response, but it still showed up because when the student is ready, the master appears.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

But the student waits while the mast.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

And we record the REM song is during the uh initial stripper sequence in the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Folks, that is the weirdest fucking thing. It that so first off, like we talked about in Party Animal, this fucking stripper scene, this male stripper scene is a is a good two minutes, two and a half minutes, it's a long scene of these dudes, you know, these dudes in you know banana hammocks, you know, dancing and everything. And it's at first it's the uh I think it's Roman gods.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah, but it turns out that's probably the reused cut. The original had this REM song, because that song's in the credits, but it doesn't sound like it's such an odd, it is such an odd song to be using there.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

What in the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Radio Free Europe while these guys are it feels dubbed in, but I have to watch it. Well they're buffalo shots and shit.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

It was insane.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

I don't have to watch again to see the buffalo shots. I guess that's part of the fucking course, but I need to watch again to see if the it really does sound like it's an overdub with added crowd sounds or what we've been hearing for years is actually a dub. Because nobody talks during the scene, there's just hearing I'd be willing to bet it's all dubbed, is what my guess is.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Both versions are dubbed, but just just it's just so weird. I mean, even if Radio Friend Free Europe was the original, if I saw the Roman gods version, I'd be like, that makes a lot more sense. Like it's just I don't know. It's it's like um showing the last scene in Dirty Dancing and replacing I had the time of my life with um you just got paid by Z Z Top or some shit.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

You know, just doesn't it doesn't fit, it's weird. Well, I'll have to watch the whole cut and see if there's any other different song cues. I think that might be the only one, but so that was pretty much all of the uh feedback there. And okay, so I guess before I do my rant, which does flow into talking about this week's movies, we can as quickly as we want to go through our season three recap. Do you have it pulled up or do you need me to share the file with you? I have that pulled up, sir. So yeah, we watched uh 72 movies last season because we finally did a full season there. Uh no makings. Probably be doing those again at some point. But wow. I know a lot of people out there watch a lot more movies than I do on a regular basis, but for me personally, 72 movies over nine months is a bit of an accomplishment. And they've been swimming in my brain ever since. So uh and I think they've affected, you know, screenwriting and everything else. Can't help but construct these films each week.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

So I you know, it's funny. I was talking with my wife about this. This and uh it's interesting when you do it this many times and you watch films and you have to kind of critically watch them. I think that it you end up kind of questioning why you like things and why you don't like things. And it helps you kind of solidify like your reasoning behind like here are the things that I like. You really begin to understand your own aesthetic, the things that you do like and don't like, the things that you think are important in film and the things that you think are aren't. You know, I continually see this argument on uh Twitter every now and then popping up and on other social media where all art is political, and I just I think that's the biggest load of shit I've ever heard in my entire life. But other people, you know, completely think it is, think that, oh well, of course art is making some sort of you know social political commentary or political commentary at all times. It's like no, it's social commentary I'll give you, but that's not necessarily political commentary, anyway. Point being, it it uh makes you think about all this stuff in a much different way, yeah. Right, you're not just letting the film wash over you and enjoying the moment like you did when you were a kid, you're critically thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

I mean, for instance, we did a bunch of comedies this year, and just looking briefly at this list here, how many of those are politically driven? The entourage movie certainly isn't. Was Mrs. Bowfire political art or losing it? I lose, yeah. I mean, hopscotch might be.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Sure, sure. Hopscotch, I could see, you know, may you know my cousin Vinny, you could maybe say is talking about the the the justice system. Um yeah, I would I would, you know, it what the in and to me what what a lot of these two people do is they cherry pick something in the movie and go, see, this is referencing something in politics, you know, like, well, this is about the sh the this is about the uh the upper class struggling against the working class. See, so that's political. It's like, no, that's that's fucking thematic. That's thematic. Like that's that's the device that you're using to tell whatever story. That's not if you're not trying to have a actual political comment, like if you're not doing Wag the Dog or you're trying to make something, you know, all the president's men or something where you're commenting on politics or talking about politics, to me, it just doesn't, it's like it's like the Christmas thing all over again. Well, Die Hard's on Christmas, so it's a fucking Christmas movie. No, it fucking isn't. Stop that shit. Christmas movies are about Christmas. It is fun to watch on Christmas, though. It is absolutely, and that and in that respect, it's a Christmas movie. If you go and you look for movies that, you know, well, this movie, like you said, happens on Christmas, so therefore it's a Christmas movie, and I can watch it on Christmas. I completely agree with you. Knock yourself out. It's like mixed nuts. I'd rather watch it going to be a Christmas classic from here on out for me. But it's not about Christmas. Scrooged is a Christmas movie because it's about Christmas, right? Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

One of the movies today, I think, is political art. Which one? Sinners? Yeah, I think that one is I completely agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Yes. That movie's that movie's layered with symbolism and themes, though. Like he he's you can tell he's doing a lot of that shit on pre. He's making commentary on that film.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

I guess we could say the last detail is for sure.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Yeah.

unknown 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

I'm not saying that they don't exist at all. I'm just saying all art is political. Motherfucker, please explain to me how Airbud is political. I'll sit here all day.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

You know, give me a break. Well, top secret is Francis the talking mule was political, strangely enough. It was, right? Because he was like staunch conservative, the mule.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

It was it.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

I guess. I I don't know. You could so you can so start to do that with this stuff, which is why I think it it's a very I don't know, vague vaporous.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

But looking at the list of comedies to start, uh is there a few on there that really stand out above the crowd for you of those?

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Of maybe some of the things that's favorites or ones that were new or I think you know, Step Brothers is a classic. I think a lot of people would agree. Um for me, I think it's it's not my favorite Will Farrell movie, but if you're gonna get a John C. Riley Will Farrell movie together, it's probably one of the better ones. I prefer I prefer prefer Will when he's in a bit of a like old school is when Will Farrell was at his best because he had a bunch of other people that were kind of carrying the movie and he's just there to be super funny. Um Real Genius is great. Uh Fast Times, you know, really awesome. Uh let's see what else here. My cousin Vinny. That's the I we've talked about that. That's a classic Thanksgiving movie. And then Hopscott. And you get the clean version. Um, I think the ref is overlooked. Uh, and is a really good movie. Of course, the party animal there. Say anything. Um, and again, the last you know, I'm gonna get you sucker was fantastic. They came together with shots.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

That one is the real, you know, from total surprise. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

The last detail was amazing. Oh, that really fucking such a good movie, such a good movie.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

It's one of those movies that whatever I rated it, I probably have to go up a half a star after the episode.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

You know, I think I gave it a four or a four and a half. I must have. If I didn't, then I'm a I'm I'm silly as all hell.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

It's the problem is sometimes you watch the movie and you do the podcast right away, and I think it reflects differently. Like half before we get into centers, I was like, oh, watch this a couple of days before we do the pod because you're gonna want the movie to kind of think about it for a bit. You don't want to be like, I just finished it five minutes ago. Well, you're gonna have all sorts of shit to say in about three or four hours from now when you're done thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

You gave uh you gave Last Detail a four, and I gave it a four and a half.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

So I'd probably go up to like the four and a half thing. But the best comedy on there of the ones we did this year that are at least on that column. I mean, you know, the obvious is like fast times because it's such a damn classic, but all the ones you mentioned are, you know, yeah, right up there too. You guys gave me better appreciation for Mrs. Doubtfire as well. That was one that I previously was like, and this time through it was like, okay, that's that's good.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

I hadn't I hadn't seen that in 20 years, and I was very pleasantly surprised to see it hold up very well. It's still it's still very funny, you know, and it's still got something to say about you know um blended or bro, or you know, household or households that are you know split up and things like that, which I thought was cool.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Uh surprisingly little science fiction. I mean, outside of the Star Trek The Motion Picture, and of course the Star Wars trilogy, which was one of the trilogies we went through. Yeah, I think those are sci-fi on the show. The sci-fi. I mean it was Jason X, if you want to lean into the horror a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Would you consider Dark Man sci-fi?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Well, he's a little bit of that too, yeah. You know, he's a scientist, right? He's making fake skin.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

He's making fake skin and putting it on and stuff, and you know. Yeah, um, we didn't do a lot of sci-fi yet. We did some good quirky British stuff though.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Oh, yeah, the quirky British is like they all could go into the comedy as well. The it how strange that all these movies came out into season three. The Waking, Ned Devine, Full Monty, Local Hero, Commitments, With Null and I. And we also covered Clerks the same season. Yeah. As far as Indy goes. So we were really digging into similarities. I don't think we even realized going into the season. After With Null and I is another one that it's like, I still think about that every now and then, and like it's it really is that British clerks kind of vibe to it.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Yeah. It's the first movie that has ever made me wish I'd grown up British so that I so that I had a better. There's some subtleties to that film that I think much like Clerks in America or much like um, oh, uh uh Linklader's um high school movie. Why am I blanking? Stupid, yeah, Daisy confused. That plays to an American audience because it's about Americ classic American things, things that you know you're just not gonna pick. You will you'll understand a lot of it, but the subtleties of it will be lost in you because it's not a lived experience for you. And so that with Nil and I was like, man, it'd be cool to have like a be have a British lived experience and really be able to kind of because I enjoyed the film, but I think it would hit me ten times better, right? Yeah. Um the indie stuff was great. Uh Jessica brought Onyx the fortuitous, and I was blown away by that. How just that dude, first off, how he raised the money for it, and then secondly, what a great job he did making that film.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Yeah, good way to kick off the season.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Mm-hmm. Like just thematically, it was consistent. The look, the art direction, the look of it was consistent, the direction was consistent, it was well made, you know. And I just realize now that um we did the beginning and the end of Kevin Smith's career this season. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

The most current and the first. The 430 movie we also covered, which somehow takes place before Clerks.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

Ah and then we did CB JB.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yep. We finally got that one in there. Uh follow-up the bottle shock from season one.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

And then the panic-inducing Give Me Liberty.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Oh, of course, yeah. That's definitely Indy. Our indie selections were all all very fitting of the IFC channel, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

I kind of feel like I kind of feel like Give Me Liberty could go under horror just for the absolute, just sheer stress-inducing, stress-inducing factor of that movie.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

And we had as far as horror goes, you know, uh Strange Darling will come up a little bit in today's discussion with the movies today. It it re-entered the chat, so to speak, in my notes. Okay, interesting. And how funny. Now you go back and you listen to that Strange Darling episode, and I'm talking about the beginnings this Texas Chainsaw opening. What is dude making now? He's making Texas Chainsaw TV show. So, hey, I thought that was a resume going, hey, give me leatherface, see what I can do with it. I mean, I only had a person in a freezer in the movie, you know, and wink wink.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

But it worked. We definitely had very different opinions about Strange Darling for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

But now I look back at it and I go, that's you could put it in indie. Also that movie.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Yeah, it's all it's it was made for five million dollars, dude. I mean, shit, that's an indie.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

It was gutsy, you know, and it did what it was supposed to. It doesn't matter what I think, because they're getting work and it got appreciated.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

So I thought it I thought it looked really good. It was shot like Giovanni Rubisi for his first film as a cinematographer, it was really well. He he did a very, very good job. Um, I thought that was. Jason X is uh is uh other than Friday the 13th part two, which I just got the 4K of.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

I think Jason X is my favorite Jason movie. Yeah, it's largely hated. I think people I don't understand why. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

It's so much fun. You're taking you're taking this stuff way too seriously if you can't get into that movie.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

But maybe it just sits on people's head certain people's heads wrong.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Like I would rather watch Jason X than Scream Three any day of the week.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah, oh yeah. People some people say Scream Three is their favorite. I think nostalgia's a hell of a drug.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

I think nostalgia is a hell of a drug. You got the member berries, you you've been eating them member berries. Hey. Uh He Never Died was uh one of I think you're probably one of your favorites of the whole series was He Never Died.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

I look back on He Never Died and I probably stick by my rating. No, I was probably a little harsh on that one that week. It's it's fine. It's probably more of like a two, it's probably not like a it was uh I get it.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

I I liked it. I liked its slow burn, but I I get why why you wouldn't like it. Some some weeks you watch things in the wrong week, you know. Rare export just was just too much old man penis. It was just too much of it. When the kids fly around at the end, it was just too much air. Yeah, that was the other part. The kid suddenly, you know, directing all the helicopters and having his You know, it just was silly. Very silly. But um if if we have to go through that to get to Cisu, then I'm all for it. Because Cisou was awesome. It's the same same actor and the same director. Um oh, and then our dramas. We did quite a few dramas.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Quite a few. It was a lot of a lot of comedy, a lot of drama. Yeah, not so much of the other categories. I mean, obviously the best drama was Maises and Monsters. I mean, is there any doubt?

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Um, no. Uh always. So we did Spielberg's probably worst film, always. Always.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

There was a moment in one of today's movies that felt like always for a couple of seconds to me, and I'm like, and now we're an always. Cynical ass, you know, trying not to get emotional watching the movie, making fun of it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Uh Youngblood was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Youngblood is a bona fide classic, and it's a fucking Stone Cole classic. Yes. And one day we'll watch American Anthem and complete the trilogy.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Oh my god. All right. Uh Fable Mans. So that's two Spielberg movies. We did Fable Mans and Rillions. I I did too. I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

I know some people are like, eh, but there's a filmmaker stuff in there that I could relate to where it's like, yeah, this is good.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

He's just he's an undeniable storyteller. And yeah, you know, whatever story that he chooses to tell, he tells it really well. Kind of better than almost anybody out there can do it, in my opinion. I see all these Cinephile lists from these Cinebros now, these 25-year-old kids.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Is that like Cinnabon? No.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

And they're like, you know, oh, I like Miyazaki and Wes Anderson and David Cronenberg and you know, all the edgy. But you don't see any fucking peck and paw, you don't see any Spielberg, you don't see any a lot of the lists, I don't even see Coppola half the time. I'm just like, you fucking people have lost your fucking minds, man.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Kind of dipping into a little bit of what I'm gonna talk about later. All right, well, modern filmmakers tend to things that that irritate me about some modern filmmakers is taking elements of previous generation, scrambling it up, and feeding it back up to a new audience and pretending they're the ones who came up with it, and the audience thinking they're the ones that came up with it, and that's why you don't see the peck and paw on the list. You see the thing that came after the peck and paw on the list.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Uh, I mean, okay, we'll have to get into that. Um Bruges, which was great, and you absolutely hated.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

I didn't like that one that much, but Hope and Glory I thought was really, really good. I did too. That was pretty straight story. Straight story is amazing. Both of those, it's like you talk about I mean, yeah, you got some great stuff here. You got one this awesome Spielberg movie, Always. No, I mean yeah, the Fable Mans, and then you have this awesome Foreman movie, Hope and Glory, and then you have what I think might be my favorite David Lynch movie, The Straight Story, because it's just it's everything in one. He's he's proving that he can make oh yeah, I can make just a you want me to just make a movie? I'll just make a movie. You think all I do is make moving paintings, and yet it still is a moving painting, but it's a movie, and it's so heartfelt, it's just really good, and I'd never seen it before. So I I really like that one.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Yeah, yeah, I did too. It's like seeing Kiss without their makeup, right? You know, yeah, and Animal Eyes and Lick It Up are not terrible albums. You know, they're not they're not the best, but they're not terrible.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

You know, Blackberry was good too. It it it's more the modern movie where there's only some moments that I remember instead of the whole movie, but there was some stuff in there that sticks with me about you know fixing the damn beeping phone.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Good enough is the enemy of humanity. I quote that at work all the time. Good enough is the enemy of humanity.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Art art's different, you know, because art's an expression, I think, you know, but technology, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Uh I struggled quite a bit with Nashville.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Well, I can't I understand why. I think it's supposed to be a challenging movie, but still relevant to today, it seems I just don't I just don't think it's very well made.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

You know, I just I I I feel like if it again, like we talked about, like he achieves this thing that he does with sound in MASH where it really works, and in Nashville it's so muddied.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

But Nashville's the one where he first put mics on everybody.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Well, and so he there you go. So it's just it's not working. Like he hasn't figured it out. Right, right. But but I I get it, but I mean I don't I don't want to use Windows 3.11, I want to use Windows, you know, 11 or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Well, see, that's an example of the things that come after are probably the better than the originator.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Yeah, probably. Um Oppenheimer was bad. I mean, it was it was fine. It was you know, but I don't think about yet to super be blown away by a Christopher Nolan movie. Like I don't really think about Target. Yeah, tar's fine. I I enjoyed it. I thought it was good, but you know, it's one of those movies where you watch it and you don't really have to watch, you don't really have a drive to watch it again. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Uh Last Waltz, I struggled with. I don't that's just not I don't like that kind of I don't like that music. I don't like that wouldn't for me. I get why other people like it. Like I totally get it.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Like and subscribe. We all struggled with mazes and monsters. Yeah, I gave it a one and you gave it a uh a half of a star.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

And then you gave Mix Nuts a half of a star.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

I gave it two and a half.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Well, I gave it a five as a Christmas movie.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Uh Sunset Boulevard and the Border were two very interesting picks. I'm just glad we finally got Sunset out the way. Um I like that movie. Like I said, I'd seen it on the big screen recently. And to just folks, if you have a chance to see it on the big screen, it's like Lawrence of Arabia. Go see it on the big screen. Don't hesitate. Just go see it. You'll love it.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

You probably won't get a chance to see the border on the big screen anytime soon.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

And I honestly I wouldn't really recommend that you see it unless you want to see Harvey Kreitel crushed by heavy construction equipment, and then you know, go see that.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Spoiler. If you can see the right stuff in the theater, it's gonna there should be hopefully be a bathroom break, as we had discussed.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Yes. Yeah, enjoy the fan dance.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Oh god, the fan dance.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Uh and Demolition Man is sci-fi, actually, so that counts as science fiction for sure. For sure. That's our in our action category. And I guess sneakers is drama's action, I guess. Give me the box, Motty. Yeah. Boomer energy. Boomer energy. Um, and then we got Early Raimi with Dark Man and Midnight Run is I I I don't know if I would that's gotta go in comedy, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

I think that's definitely I was it was hard pressed to figure out where it goes, but that's a really good one, too.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

Yeah, yeah, it was fantastic. Pelham 123 was awesome. Oh, yeah. Math Al just fucking crushing it and that shit. I I'm I'm the more I watch his movies, the more I really enjoy him as an actor. I just think he's awesome. Talking Mathal before you know it again. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have to lock one of those in. Maybe bring a guest on for it. Ender the Dragon, classic five stars all day long. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the first movie you and I ever reviewed for the high school paper. Fucking hilarious. And then, of course, our uh Westerns. We had the warlock and bad day at Black Rock. The only two Wests we've got to get more sci-fi and westerns, which I would argue are almost like. Sci-fi westerns.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Cowboys are.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

I think they were almost the same damn thing, in my opinion. You know, one's just backwards and one's just forwards in time.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Um, but trilogies was you know, Victor Victoria and what SO that finished off the SOB. That one in 10. Um 10 SOB. So no, didn't he do the he didn't do network but broadcast or something like that? Didn't he do one about television?

SPEAKER_01 30:30

No, the Blake Edwards goes 10, uh SOB, Victor Victoria, and it's like the man who loved women and then something else in there, I forget, and then Blind Date, and then of course the John Ritter glowing the dark condom movie. Which is gonna be uh fucking 10 with John Ritter. It's kind of the same story, but now like Edwards is older, so he's telling it through a different age group. But maybe we'll get to that one one day just to see the glow in the dark condom to see if that I mean we need more, you know, talking Ritter. We don't talk enough about John Ritter. And we finished off the trilogy that began with Sicario, and Sicario was way back in like season one, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Wind River.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Wind River Wind River finishing off that trilogy coming soon and Transpotted Day of the Soledad, I believe that was called.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

It was a good season. You know, they've all been so far, but three was very it was varied. We can get a little bit more variant in there, but still what we had was, you know.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed season three quite a bit. I think it was a a good, like you said, it was a good season, lots of good movies in there, but also some real stinkers because you gotta have a few crappy ones that are painful, otherwise it's just no fun. Oh, yeah. I can't all speak of crappy ones that were painful. One of the two movies that we had today was a real shit burger.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

You didn't like sinners?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Well, at least it was only 68 minutes. Right, running time. Um I do have a little rant before we go into the movies. Please. Please. Okay. Oscars. They do them once a year. They do them for the movies that come out the previous year. Well, that makes sense because these movies are new and you want to drum about business, you want to rent seats, sell popcorn. I get it. Whatever puts butts in seats, right? But how about this for kind of a crazy concept? And this is also why I like the National Registry more than the Oscars, because it's like the movies have stood the test of time, and then we put them in because we still feel they're culturally relevant, what, 25 years after the fact? So what about this? The Oscars should be for movies that are five years old. One year is just too new. Like when I was saying you need time to think about these things to appreciate the movie. What if they did the Oscars five years from now? It wouldn't be good for business. I understand that. But what an interesting take. It's like now I've had a chance to watch all these movies, I've thought about them, and now I can give a clearer idea of what I thought the best movie from 2025 is. Just seems like we're just giving awards to things that just came out the womb. They we don't even know if this is gonna, but that's the Oscars, right? How many best picture winners are movies that nobody's talking about anymore? Most of the time. The one that should have won never wins, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Because so then we would be reviewing I know it's ridiculous, but it was just a thought, you know. Movies from 2021, right? Mm-hmm. At that point. So we would be doing, hang on, let me just I've got the list. I've got the list up here. Where is it? Best picture, best picture. There it is. So we would be talking about Nomad Land, The Father, Judas and the Black Messiah, Mank, Minari, Promising Young Woman, Sound of Metal, or The Trial of the Chicago 7.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Who's talking about any of those currently?

SPEAKER_03 34:25

I I I mean, Nomad L was the big runaway. Oh my goodness, what a great fucking movie. But yeah, I mean, and Clo and you know, the the director saw into doing other things at this point. I think, didn't she do Hamnet? No, something something? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Oh, I think you're right. Yeah. Well, I think they were on the Deacon's pod. I think I heard that one.

unknown 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

And then of course, I mean, Sound of Metal, I mean I I I haven't seen it, but I've heard good things about it. But yeah, I mean it's not like these movies are we're still uh like you said, super I I've heard Judas and the Black Messiahs, you know, that's also Ryan Kugler.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Maybe we're still digesting this art, but that's not what the point of the Oscars is. The Oscars is this is brand new, go see it. You know, it's still out. What's a five years from now, what good is that gonna do anybody? I understand.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Yeah, it's a dog and pony show. You know, that's you know, you trot them out, you get them an award, they get happy, you know. They make a little speech about you know saving kids in some far-off country that they never go to, and then you know that they feel good about themselves, and they go get, you know, do a lot of cocaine and eat a cheeseburger because they've been starving themselves for three weeks to fit into their fucking clothes.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

So, did you want to talk about the movie you didn't care for as much first?

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Is that yeah, I think we have more to say about sinners, and that might be a funner one to go out on anyway.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

So, what is this movie that uh Josh Becker and Bruce Campbell decided let's just make a movie like we did back in the day and shoot it in like a week, I think, and this experiment called Running Time.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

Running time, 1997, one hour and ten minutes. It is not an hour and ten minutes, uh it's an hour and eight minutes. Um like an hour is released. You cut the credits out. Carl is released from jail after serving a five-year term and immediately sets about executing his next heist. The plan is relatively simple, but time is critical. However, he doesn't factor in bad luck or the incompetencies of his accomplices. Directed and written by Josh Becker, Peter Choi is also a writer on this, stars Bruce Campbell, Jeremy Roberts, Anita Barone. Your storyline Running Time was filmed in black and white in real time and seemingly takes place in one continuous fluid shot. It's a little like Hitchcock's rope, but it's on location. Carl, an ex-con who sets out to rob the prison laundry system where he worked for five years while in the penitentiary, has spent ten years in prison planning the ultimate heist. Upon his release, he meets up with a high school buddy who's made all the arrangements for the job and rendered him a hooker for his first encounter in a decade with a real girl. After picking up the safe cracker and their getaway driver, they've got twenty minutes to pull off the perfect heist, but soon everything falls apart before Carl's eyes. He might still get the girl, though.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Okay, first off, apologies for not pairing the party animal with sinners. I think that would have been a much better fit. But as far as like bad Bruce Campbell movies go, you could do a lot worse than this one. But, anyways, rest in peace, Josh Becker. He was one of the people that helped make Evil Dead, and the connection with him and Sam Raimi back in the day was Becker had been doing films and short films and showing them at school, and he was kind of like the big film guy. And then here comes Raimi, and he starts doing little short movies and kind of taking some of Josh's techniques, but then doing them his way and better. And so there was a little rivalry between the two of them for a while, and eventually they ended up working together. But Josh managed to cram out a few movies in his lifetime that are weird little cult classics. He never did anything much larger than a Hercules Rosena episodes. And it's crazy. As we all get older and our all of the readers, everybody's time is running out. Uh, he passed away last year, and Scott Spiegel, another one of the early Raimi guys. Sometimes I go, fuck, do I have 10 years left? Well, if we do, Cliff, I hope we make the next 10 years fucking awesome. Because my God, it's so crazy how fast it all comes and goes. But anyways, this movie, 68 minutes you can't get back. I know, but at least it's short.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

It's not a well, first off, it's not a movie.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

No, it's still like a long short.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

It's not a feature film. It's it's not a movie, it's a long short. Um I and I I looked it up just to see, like, I was like, maybe I can cut this some slack. What's the length of the very first considered the very first feature film? The very first feature film length is I think it's somewhere in the 19 uh it's 1906 or 1908, it's 70 minutes long. So if they could make a fucking 70-minute move movie in 1908, then I expect at least that long now to call it a movie. And look, our movies have skirted that line very close at some point too, but at least we got it over the finish line, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Are you grateful it wasn't longer?

SPEAKER_03 39:10

I I know because I think if he if he had if he had maybe taken if he had been forced to do another 15 minutes of footage, right, one of two things would have happened. He would have written a better fucking script, or he wouldn't have made the movie, one of the two. And both of those would have been X m uh much better outcomes than what he had.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

That's true. There was places you could have gone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Um it's it's just, you know, the dialogue is fucking god-awful. Like the writing is he has a, you know, I get it. He makes this kind of he tries to make this kinetic, sort of frenetic movie that's supposed to have this pace, but yet at the same time, he kind of fucks it up in certain instances, so he loses the pace. He kind of abandons the idea of it being all one long piece at certain points where because he just wants to have a storytelling device or he wants to tell it differently. It doesn't, you know, it's just it's it's not, I mean, I can't say it's not it's not terribly made, but at the same time, like, fuck, I stopped counting how many goddamn times he uses that camera to circle the two fucking actors while they're talking. It just got to where it's like, oh my god, hey man, why not one more time around? Woo! Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

You know, it felt like they were just like, let's make a movie with all of our 70s techniques when we were just, you know, just and and it's got Bruce Campbell in it, so that's why it's out.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

It feels like they it feels like they were like, well, fuck, you know, uh, we know Sam Raimi. We got we got access to stuff, and we've got a little bit of money, and fucking Kevin Smith made a fucking black and white movie, so let's go make a fucking talky ass black and white Kevin Smith movie.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

It was just a bad it was bad from start to it. The premise of the movie is fucking dumb. It continues to get more dumb as it goes along.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Yeah, I like the first part more than the second part. I think once you get to the heist, it stops in its tracks when the guy can't open the safe. Feels like we're in there for way too long. Like it's I'm like, oh, if any tension you had has kind of let out, and then with the hooker story by the end, you you're kind of like, Am I watching the same movie? And then it just kind of ends.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

Well, it's it, you know, and how many fucking times are we gonna have a k a person move into the lens and then move away from the lens so that we can quote unquote hide the cut? Oh, we all see what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

And if they're not even trying to, it's not like Birdman where they're trying to really hide it. It's like you can tell.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

Oh no, he's trying to hide it. He does it several times where he's trying to hide the cut. He's obviously trying to make it one continuous piece. Yeah, but he's just not doing it right. He moves into black at one point and then moves out of black, just like they do in Birdman. It's no, you know, I think it's sli much more slicker done in Birdman than this, for fuck's sake. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Like this is this is way more subtle. Uh or uh Birdman's way more subtle than it. You know, there's a there's some dialogue in it that's like, but only if you want to. That is, yeah, I want to. Really? Yeah, really. You're not just saying that. No, I mean it. And I'm like, oh fuck, Black Rock. What the fuck? Yeah, it's like Bad Day of BlackRock, exactly. That's dialogue. It's writing from the 50s. Like, come on, what are you doing? And I'm and I'm only 15 minutes into the movie. Like, I like I paused it and I'm like, oh my god, I got 50 minutes left. I got five zero minutes left on this problem.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Right? It feels like they have a premise and they're just riffing on it.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

No, it's uh well, I mean, for him to be able to do the blocking that he does, it's definitely not it's all scripted. Like they have to block all that shit out and figure it out because they know when to bump into the camera to create the the the transition and the and the edit points. They know, you know, they're they're strategically planning that shit out for sure.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Well, they got away with it.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

That's why I I you know I have to kind of give him credit for getting for pulling that part of it off. Like, yeah, he got the movie done and that type of thing, and congratulations, but holy shit, dude. Like that's it's it's a it's just a it's kind of an unbelievable kind of story with a weird ass premise and and it wants to be like Animal Factory to it kind of.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

I feel like it would have been something I would have seen on IFC then, but I hadn't seen this movie before ten years ago. And now I have a Mandela effect memory like I watched this in the 90s, because it's so 90s. It reminds me of one of those movies that I watched and then went and made marijuana's. Oh, if they can do it, we can do it.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

Yeah, Bruce, and that's I think that's exactly what these guys did, where they went, well, if Kevin can do it, we can do it. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Bruce Campbell, unfortunately, he does just doesn't have the acting chops to save this thing, which is unfortunate because that dude's got some pretty fun, kind of hammy ass brilliant. Movie acting chops. He he should be in this thing really killing it, but instead he's just kind of the movie's just dragging him along. The script and the story are dragging him along and everybody else, right, to this eventual silly fucking ending.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

And he's ducking to the left, and he's ducking to the right.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

Hey, I've circled the two actors once with the camera. What else should I do? I know I'll circle them with the camera again. It's fucking brilliant, dude. Good job, Josh. Um, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

It reminds me a lot of these public access skits we did, and they were called Cluckers, where they were like, it was the precursor to marijuanos in a way, even though we had written that script where it was just Chris and his cousin Rudy pretending to be Coke dealers in these five-minute improv single shot takes. And they're so silly, but it reminds I'm like, oh my god, it's like that, or like La Yorona, or they're running through the tunnels. Like there's a scene where he goes into a tunnel and the camera's going up and down, and I'm like, it's like shit that we used to do when we were fucking around.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Yeah. But I'll exactly. The tunnels the tunnel's the only interesting shot in the film. It's the it's the only interesting shot in the film. It's the only time that they find a location that looks halfway interesting at all.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

The other shot I liked is uh he comes into the neighborhood and then the shot pulls all the way back, and we see the guy who ran off with the van. I kind of like that one a little bit. It's more visual than the dialogue, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

I'll tell you a shot that really drove me, drove me up the fucking w wall. Uh, because uh to me the the camera almost kind of moves directionless. Like if you want to if you want to study a movie about like how like uh how to overuse a camera and move it, how to way move it way too fucking much. This is the movie for you. Watch this, and then if you want to see about like processing and editing techniques, watch Man on Fire, Tony Scott's Man on Fire. Between the two of them, you'll have a great lesson on probably what not to do most of the time. Um, but it's that's exactly it. This thing is just the camera moves so weird, and it's um the shot is it's uh she comes out of her apartment and onto the Bruce Campbell's out there and she thinks he's and he's left, drive driven off with that dude, and she comes out of her apartment, the camera follows her, she comes out of the apartment, and then comes back into the apartment and does that whole run into the camera to block the lens thing. Why not just fucking back the camera up and just follow her back into the apartment? Why do you need to do the bump at that point? I I guess the only thing I can think of is that you're using some kind of heads or tails, black and white, you know, film canister, and you don't have enough film spliced together to be able to shoot that whole thing. But it's just like, my God, over and over, bumping into the camera, bumping out of the camera, bumping into the camera, bumping out of the camera over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yeah, I didn't listen to the commentary track. I had previously, and it was probably the best way to watch the movie because it's more entertaining. But I didn't watch it twice this week.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Um, an IMDB review called this tense. Um pick any scene in Reservoir Dogs, and it's ten times as tense as this. And I feel like this is influenced by Reservoir Dogs too.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Oh yeah, and it's funny. Very much so. There's a documentary about Josh Becker. I forget what it's called, but and I watched it, and uh he didn't get along with Tarantino or the Cohen brothers very much. And yet here he's like doing something very close to that style. But he he never wanted to play the Hollywood game. Like we were talking, like he's kind of like I don't want to call him the Troy Duffy of the Raimi universe, because I don't think he was insufferable as that, but there was still a little bit of that going on where it was just his own worst enemy type of guy. Yeah. Like he had the potential to do something in the drive, but it was just but at the same time, he left behind a good half dozen or more really strange cult movies like this and Thou Shall Not Kill Except, where Raimi's playing a Manson type cult leader. Has to be seen to be believed, but you'd probably think running time was Citizen Kane compared to it. But they're fighting for a B movie. As far as like a craft. That's not even a B movie. That's a few. What do you think about it?

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Compared to like I don't know, some of the other low budget stuff you might have seen Bruce and Um, I I think it's uh yeah, I think it's bottom of the barrel, but there's one the this movie feels like it's stuck in the fucking mud. It takes forever to watch. It's its premise is dead within the first five fucking minutes. It just you just I mean, my God.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

So I take it you haven't seen Alien Apocalypse or The Man with the Screaming Brain, because uh I can throw some really bad Bruce movies around.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Sure. Yeah, I uh I uh this movie's insufferable. It was insufferable to watch. I I couldn't stand it. I couldn't stand it. It's I I I give a half star because Bruce is in it, much like I give Joey Pants. Any anything with Joey Pants gets a half star. Um, you know, immediately if Joey Pants is in a movie, I'm getting it a half star. I feel the same with Bruce, so I give it the half star for that, but the rest of the movie is just it's just not good. I just really didn't enjoy it at all.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

The other odd connection is the secretary is Bridget Hoffman, who is the woman in the Evil Dead promotional art, but she's not in that movie. And so here she is actually in something with Bruce. And the other strange thing about this movie is we run an LLC. This movie was made with an LP. That's how old it is. Like they didn't even have LLCs set up yet. It was just a limited partnership. You don't see LP in the credits too much, and I know if that's one of the more interesting things about the movie, it probably wasn't that good. So I'm right there with you. I know it's not that good of a movie. I still give it two.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Jesus, fucking, you gave Mix Nuts a half a star, and you're giving this two fucking stars.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Bruce pulled the turn for me. He's funny enough. There's enough of the young Bruce that I can just watch that and laugh for an hour. But it was a slog this time. It's your score, man. I'm just like, I like to watch public access and shit. I've been I mean I understand it being a half star as well. I get that.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

This movie has a dude with his crime partner. He hasn't fucking he's been out of pr in prison for 10 years. He gets out day one, they escape with the fucking money in two bags, he's shot, and he tell tells his friend, just take the money and fucking run, and I'll meet you later. Like, give me a fucking break. It's stupid, but it makes me listen to it. Oh anyway.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Anyway, not watching it again anytime soon, but I do.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

Um, let me see. What is it? Do I have any other notes on it? I lost count of the number of times the actors walk directly into the lens. At one point the actress does it so she can leave the apartment. Yeah. Um, and oh, that's the other thing. Soundtrack's awful.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

What was the soundtrack?

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Yeah, just yeah, because at one point it's doing like it's doing like the soulful guitar from fucking uh from um soulful guitar licks from lethal weapon. Where from green I'm like, oh my god, dude, what the movie's so bad. Ugh. Anyway. Half star. Alright. And I and I say that with I don't feel bad about that shit at all. Get it out of here. Get it off my plate. You like it, you eat it. Bring me some sinners. That's right. Not trying to yuck your yum, but if you want to eat that, you go right ahead. I ain't eating it.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Sinners. Why does everything have to be salacious? What is sinners? Salacious. Look, I'm not a prude, but wow, there's a lot of uh talking about eating out and crotch grabbing, and then I go, it is a vampire movie, it has to be mildly erotic.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

We just talked about hound dog eating pussy in a fucking movie.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

That was a couple weeks ago. We didn't even quote that line. Sinners 2025.

SPEAKER_03 52:50

Rated hour two hours and 17 minutes. Uh, here's your log line. Trying to leave their troubled lives behind. Twin brothers return to their hometown to start again, only to discover that an even greater evil is waiting to welcome them back. This is written and uh directed by Ryan Kugler, stars Michael B. Jordan, Jack O'Connell, Haley Steinfeld. Okay, storyline. 1930s. Brothers smoke and stack more, return home to Mississippi after working for the Chicago Mafia. They buy a sawmill and a juke joint and use their experience as gangsters to ensure that their businesses flourish. Things appear to be going well, but trouble is just at town, trouble in a supernatural form. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

So on my earlier point about, you know, at my half joke about why does everything got to be so salacious, is it's kind of like, and especially in Oscar movies lately. Because remember back when we were kids in movies that would come out and people would look at us like we were fucking crazy for being into this stuff, like it was gross or it was offensive, and you cut to now, and part of me is very happy that a lot of this stuff is acceptable. But it's like this you're giving these things Oscar nominations when you used to fucking sneer at us. You know, George Romero never got nominated for an Oscar for making Dawn of the Dead, but I guess I guess you have to build from there. But like everything everywhere all at once, there was a dildo in that. That's a best picture nominee or winner. So you see what I'm saying? If everything is shocking, nothing is shocking. Jane's addiction was right. I like to pepper my shock. I like my shock on dirty cocktail napkins.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

You're talking about you're talking about the difference between what's socially acceptable then and now.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Well, that's why I have to relate it to then and how interesting it is, how it's changed the Oscars.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

The Oscars made a lot of mistakes in the 70s and the 80s, shunning a lot of films that were culturally significant and had a lot of impact. And I think that they maybe they're overcorrecting on that, but I think it's better that way than to you know completely begin to overlook these significant movies, or at least movies that, you know, and I that's kind of why I like the 10 best picture nod type thing, because even if we know five of them aren't going to make it, it's cool that they got kind of seen. You get them named so they're out there and people may go see them, and that's good. I like that. I mean it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

I kind of miss the days of the unrated cut on home video when you had kind of like a R-rated version that would appeal to everybody. But what am I fucking talking about? This was clearly just like Barbie for Quadrant. They knew exactly how to pull everybody into as an audience member for this movie.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Well, they st they they definitely you know they definitely stayed away from nudity, which the younger generation, for what I understand, isn't really keen on.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

It would have fallen out of place, wouldn't it? It yeah, but they get dirty enough just from all the talk about picking out and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

It has some eroticism to it, and it it does have some kind of yeah, some kind of go like listen to Haley Steinfeld say, You stuck your tongue in my coups and then fucked me hard. I was like, girl, what young lady, watch your mouth. What in the hell? I told my wife that she started laughing her ass off. This is the little girl from True Grit. Like to hear her kind of I imagine she took the role just so she could say that fucking line.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Uh some of our younger viewers one day will understand where I'm coming from with this, but I know you'll understand this because we're both about the same age. And now that I'm in my 50s and I'm watching these stories about people who are in their 20s or in their 30s, they seem like kids to me. And they think they know everything. Yeah. You don't. And you don't really get to know stuff when you're in your 40s, but you read things so differently when you're in your 50s looking at these. And then when it's so sexually charged, I'm almost like, it's like, wow, I've officially become old because I'm sitting here watching young people, and I'm I'm embarrassed by it.

SPEAKER_03 56:55

Yeah, I'm trying to, yeah, I'm trying to keep, yeah, I've I've I tried to keep from judging that everybody's got their own ways of doing it, but it's also one of those things where you start you start to realize that the media is not made for you anymore. You like to talk about how well this movie was made for boomers. You know, well, guess what, buddy? You're the boomer now, as far as you know, boom, they don't make movies for you anymore. They don't make movies for boomers made by boomers. No, no, but what I'm saying is you lived in a generation in the 80s and the 90s where movies were made for you, were pointed at you to get you to watch them. You are no longer that target watch.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Once we hit like 45, we're out of it. I heard the millennials are officially out of it now.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Yeah. So, you know, sinners is was while while you know I'm sure the studios want us to see it, it was not directly targeted at us.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

You know, but it's like I was mentioning earlier, I think I mentioned this on the recording. It's one of the reasons that, and I think it's because I'm so old now, but also it was this way back in the day when I used to read all the Fangoria and shit, and I used to be looked at like I was a mutant freak, which I probably was for loving all that shit at the time and nobody else liked it. And then you get filmmakers that come along in the 90s and beyond that take all those elements from the exploitation movies and make them mainstream, and then the mainstream audience loves it because they never watched those other movies. So that's why there's like if you had just dropped all this homage shit to horror movies, maybe Cinners is a fucking brilliant movie. I still really liked it, but I feel almost like in parts like you use the vampire thing to kinda pull people. I like it and I don't. I'm so torn on this movie. There's parts of it I really dig, and there's other parts where I'm like, ugh, but then I get to the end of it, and not to spoil anything, I think it's mostly a movie about grief more than it is a horror movie or something.

SPEAKER_03 58:51

This is a spoiler podcast, so it's fine to spoil it.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

I know. I just have to make my jokes.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

To start with, I'll you know, I I like to go kind of chronologically through the movie with my notes. So there's a there's a scene early on where we see smoke and stack and they're passing a cigarette back and forth. And this is to give us the sense that they're both in the scene at the same time. And uh it's I I just made a note about it because it's just it to me, it's such it's for everything else that he pulls off, it's kind of a really like a ham-handed, like, see, really they're there. Both of them are really there. Look, they're passing the cigarette back and forth. It's like, dude, you don't need to do that. The rest of the movie that you made is so good that you don't need to, you don't need to bow to these tiny tricks. Just make the fucking film, bro. Um, and so you know, in right away, uh it was in so it was kind of like a yawn moment where I'm like, oh boy, I don't and then I start watching the rest, you know, fifth ten minutes in the film, I'm like, this movie's gonna be filled with a fuckload of symbolism. I can tell right away there's gonna be a lot of thematic, some thematic stuff being thrown at me in symbolism, and some of it's probably gonna go over my head. That's cool. I'm gonna dig in and just try to, you know, decipher what I can and enjoy as much of it as I can. Um, my next note is wap that wang dang doodle all night long. The movie's trying to be very cool, and in some parts it really succeeds, and in other parts it feels corny as fuck. And I think that's kind of what you're talking about. Where it's like, oh shit, you did that really well. Eh, kind of flat flat on your face there a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Why you did it, but that part you did really well. I wish you wouldn't have, but um, I understand why, but I wish you wouldn't have, but I understand why. It's like a battle in my mind constantly since I've watched it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:33

The the first town scene with the shooting, you know, Terry boy, how you been? Well, I was doing better for you. Shot me in the ass. That whole stuff early on's fucking great. It's really good. Um, but my one of my first early parts of the movie, and and and what what I don't understand is there's a driving shot. Okay, when when the twin brothers break up, when smoke and stack split up and smoke drives off, I think it's smoke, drives off with the the young guitar player, the the preacher's treat preacher boy.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

I got confused and had to start it over.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:06

So when he drives off with Preacher Boy and they're talking, the car they're so first off, the car is way too smooth. It's it's an old ass fucking car driving down a goddamn gravel road. It should be bouncing a lot more, but instead it's this very smooth ride, and you can tell it's on a yeah uh a you know pneumatically controlled sled, so everything's nice and smooth. And then secondly, they've fucking covered the car. Uh they've they've diffused the car with a massive diffuser over the top of it, and it's almost cast so the so the guys are in a fucking brightly lit car with no top, a convertible with no top, and they look like they're in shade. And then 30 feet behind them, where the you know, the road and the ditch go is the cotton field, and the cotton field's in the brightest fucking sunlight you've ever seen, and it looked so weird. And then about halfway through that scene, they go back to town and then they come back to it, and then it switched, and now the fucking shadow's gone, and they've you know, now the the the cotton field matches where the boys are in the car. And I'm just like, guys, if you can't get it all in one fucking, you know, this it it doesn't look right, it looks fucked up. Your lighting's changed completely, and I I don't know how you didn't catch that. Like, I really don't know how you didn't catch that. It's fucking weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

I had to end up watching it on Amazon Prime and SD because the the high def copy looked so overly saturated crazy to me that I think they're purposely trying to make it look unreal. Well, they're definitely it's definitely richly colored because it's they definitely push the colors for sure. I'm I got a little color blindness where I have troubles with reds and browns and green distinguishing, and so the high def I everything just looked ugly. It I was like, fuck this just movie displayed. I like I thought it looked ugly.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

I thought no, I thought it looked really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Then I switched especially the night stuff. I switched to the standard def, and then everything was a little bit more like probably what it looked on the big screen a little more. It was a little more muted, and then I could see the blacks better, the shadows, people's hats weren't like this gigantic fucking mass of blue popping off their head and shit. It was it was almost like Willy Wonka on on my big TV, but on the other TV it was I was like, okay, this is a little more manageable here. But see, listening to Deacons every week, there's so many issues with the color timing, and by the time it gets to you in which copy you're watching, like criterion goes out of their way to make sure that the color timing's right, but I don't really think the copy that's compressed onto Amazon looks like this, or well, I think the standards are a little bit better now.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:51

I watched I watched the Blu-ray basically. I watched the the copy from the Blu-ray, so I I mean I got it. I think it got as close as Coogler did. So that that'll move me to my next thing. This and and this is to every filmmaker out there, if you're listening, if if if secretly directors are listening to the show and passing it around and doing these assholes. Stop with the mixed formats. Just fucking stop. Pick a format and stick to it. Pick a format and stick to it, okay? I don't want to I get it. You shot it in IMAX and you want to show it IMAX, then just open the mat up and show the whole fucking thing that way, right? Or shoot the goddamn IMAX knowing it's gonna be matted top and bottom. I mean, Kubrick did it. It fucking there's tons of filmmakers that shoot like that. They shoot four by three open mat and because they know it's gonna be matted, and then but they've still got the they've still got the you know the bigger image for other things that they want to do. Cooler didn't have to do this jumping back and forth between you know 1.85 or 2.5, you know, to this massive, you know, 1.43 IMAX, whatever it was fucking dumb, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

You can do that because there's not ever gonna be a four by three version of this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:56

I hear you, but it's still fucking stupid.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

Yeah, well, there's a few parts where I didn't even notice it happened until after it happened. At least he was smearing most of the movie is scope. But yeah, I know what you mean. It's weird. Because didn't they do that in the dark night? They go back and forth for the IMAX parts. Yeah, I think so. But this one, sometimes it like opens, you see it like start to enlarge, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:21

Like when they all when the vampire it reminds me of the old dumb 3D 3D trope where they'd have the uh the character lean over the black and white bars, the top and white bars on the you know, the 1.85, you know, where they to create that, oh look at me, I'm coming out of the frame effect. Um I do love the trope of the prepared stranger who confidently goes about his plans. You know, I love how the the stack brothers show up and they they know what they're gonna do, they've got their plans. They're you know, the the guy that that's buying that's selling them the the uh sawmill, they're not they're not worried about that dude at all, and you know, are more than willing to put him in. The ground if need to.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

Yeah, it's very interesting because it's an exploitation movie through and through with all those classic tropes that you would see in like an old, you know, 70s type grindhouse movies or horror movies or things that the Academy would have shit on 40 years ago and now we're loving, which is part of the reason why I'm like, I can get behind it, but I'm always I'm too much of an old school person to let somebody else take all the credit for something somebody else did, but I still like the movie. I don't think he's trying to take credit for anything. I definitely think he's influenced by a lot of that stuff for sure. But the kids that are watching it don't know those movies. So it's the same reason I don't like Tarantino is the reason I didn't like some of this. But I do like this movie more than Inglorious Bastards or Django Unchained. I thought it was more impactful and kind of trying to do similar things, you know. Like they kill Hitler and the Inglorious Bastards, but in this one we get to kill a bunch of KKK people. So, you know, it's kind of that revenge thing on the film, you know, which is also one of those exploitation tropes. You know, we're gonna get revenge, and oh shit, I might have as bad as the person that I'm killing, and and the smoke and stack, you know, they're that anti-hero too, right? Because they got the shit ass. They're not gonna be able to get the thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

Yeah, there's no I like the fact that they're very unambiguous about the about what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:23

That's where that from Dust Till Dawn comparison comes from, I think, is because the thieve type thing and this I've been I've been thinking about how you would el I would think about how you would elevator pitch this movie, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:37

How if you if you got if you if you somehow got lucky enough to get stuck on an elevator going up going up ten floors with an executive and you had 30 seconds to pitch it, how would you pitch it? And in my and I I came up with basically something like think about La La Land meets dust till dawn, peppered with a little bit of um the color purple, you know, uh and that and and and that and maybe with a little bit of uh of uh ragti thrown in, that type of vibe, you know, like or crossroads, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

Like something like does turn in the crossroads at one point. It totally turns in the crossroads at one point. But I'd pitch it as it's a prequel to near dark. Because you got your Confederate vampires that have been around for hundreds of years, they're kind of pack animals, and they're steaming in the sunlight. Remember when he shows up at the house and he's steaming? I'm like, oh, he's a dark vampire. You know, because we're all successful to sunlight. But you know, and that movie specifically, they're hiding under the side. Yeah, some of them, some of them just immediately catch fire. That feels like like, you know, the little homages there. So I like them, but at the same time, I go, I like the movie underneath all that even more, and I would have liked to see just that movie. But maybe that wouldn't have been as successful, or maybe that would be a harder watch. Because I feel like the whole movie's an allegory. It's not really about vampires. It's about it's about they opened this juke joint and then the KKK showed up and killed a bunch of them, and then they're kind of the survivors at the end, and they're looking back like, remember when that was the the subtext I got from it, and that really hit me like, oh, it's not so much about surviving vampi it's like surviving real life monsters or vampires, you know, kind of the allegory of what it represented a little by the end, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:36

I think I don't see I I don't think that was where the allegory was.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

To me, the the you know, the the idea of building this very as well. I think that's a movie about coping about grief, like there's no demons, he's coping with people died.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:50

The idea that there's a world or a thin layer that music can kind of tear a hole in and bring in magic and things of that was was fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

And I like the fact that it's forcing to come up with that concept because uh we used to go to Lollapalooza and experience all of those different music calming out in one day.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

So I like the fact that he's come up with this idea, and I like the fact that he's woven in. I mean, he he sets that as the prologue, so he tells you that that's that's important to the world, and that's part of what the net that's the natural part of this world that he's putting you in, right? Which is, you know, and and that evil is attracted to this beauty of this music, be musical beauty, and even the fact that the the vampires are such beautiful singers, like, because it's really weird, like he kills those two, and the next that night they're out there with instruments singing. So even these vampires must be musically gifted to a certain extent, right? For to reproduce this thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

They share the hive mind, they can do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:52

They share the hive mind and all that type of thing, right? Kind of, right? They're able to sing perfect three-part harmonies and all that type of stuff. And so I I that to me is not the allegory. To me, the allegory is um like you said, I think it's more about loss and about longing. Um, it's about a lot of pain and a lot of strife and things that, you know, you know, there's a lot of things about the African-American, you know, experience and things very deeply buried in there. Um, but I also love the, you know, my some of my favorite stuff is when he goes to see his ex-wife and she takes his mojo bag off of him and casts a new spell on him and she has sex with him because that's part of the spell. That's how she, that's how she keeps him safe. Right. And it's just kind of amaz I love and that that there's that really great moment where he she says, you know, do you not think that you know you walked around with that mojo bag and that's what do you know, not think that somebody's out there protecting you as you walk around doing what you do? And he said, looks at her and says, Well, then how come it didn't work for our daughter? And she just says, I don't know. You know, and I thought, Fuck. Well, those are those heavy, powerful stuff there. There's some good stuff in there, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:02

And then you got a movie about vampires that you got to sit through to get to those hearts.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:07

I don't, I mean, I I I didn't have to sit through some of that stuff, but I loved it. I thought it was great. I love the idea of these Native Americans that know that what these things are and are chasing them.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

They show up, I'm like, they're clearly the heroes, they're out there hunting these things, and we never see them again. They could have shown up at the beginning and helped them kill this KKK.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:27

Because the rest of the movie is all one night and they're too fucking smart to be out at night trying to hunt vampires, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:33

But it's still kind of like, hey, where'd you go? A movie, you set that up, bring them back. Those vampires felt more like DD undead vampire, right? Like, you don't usually see the hive mind creepy vampire. Like that's gonna fuck you up. You usually see like the suave single or they romanticized them, but these were more like it reminded me like get out, like we want to be you, we want to become you again, right? Where we want to we want all of your talents and we want to possess you and bring you in. But we're what we're cool though, because they're just gonna come and kill you anyway, so you might as well join us. It was very creepy, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:17

It's more like uh to me, it's more like 30 days of night. Yeah, but or um, I mean, the there's a lot of established, you know, vampire tropes about killing the master and this and the thralls dying. That's you always gotta find them individually, but they but they clearly state in the movie that's not gonna work, right? So that's not how they end up killing them all. They end up drawing them out into the sunlight to kill them all. But the hive mind and this they they feel more like human-like vampires than the the the classic Count Dracula type of vampire, right? Much more modern. Oh, uh a good analogy would kind of be like interview with the vampire vampires.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

They take the Ann Rice thing and expand it with music. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:58

Yeah, very much so, very much so.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

And I like that, and I thought I wish they had done a little more with it because it seems like they hinted at it. And I thought, oh, you want the musicians because they allow you to break that veil so you can see the other side that you can never get to because you're a vampire. But they don't really go further than that because I was like, that's a great concept. Like when he shows up, they the two of them show up at the end and the guy plays one more song for them. I really thought the veil was gonna drop when we were gonna see all they were gonna get to see the dead people. Obviously, I'm writing a different movie in my head, but I thought that it had hinted at the music can drop the veil, and the vampires can see that because they're the undead, and that's why they wanted that. And I'm like, that's a really interesting concept. I've never really thought of that before. But really, what they felt like to me was well, we've done way too many zombie movies. You can't be zombies in their vampires. We'll do vampires this time, and the vampires can do the siege movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:06

I I I feel like the vampires are intrinsic to what the movie that they're telling. Like, I I I don't I don't think that you could say you could say, like, well, maybe it could be Frankenstein's monster, or you could be with zombies.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:15

There's no personality. You can do it with zombies, it you know, have that, but they just it's a vampire movie. They are zombie undead-esque, where they're out there in the hordes, you know, and you can't you're stuck in the house. You usually don't like you said, Thirty Days of Night's the good example.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:32

Uh no, that Dead Snow's the I mean there's there's plenty of vampire horde movies out there. I can't think of a bunch of them, but they're out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

Usually the Siege movie is more of like the thing or like a group of zombies, or but it does happen. But I thought this was like a twist. Like they were like, we're gonna take and we're gonna mix it up a little bit. You know, you flip the script, and it worked for them. More Oscar nominations than anything in history.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:02

Well, it's I mean, it's it's seriously super fucking creative. It is seriously super creative. The the Preacher Boy song alone, that entire section where he does tear down the veil, and suddenly there's what I don't know why is a six-street guitar, but that's obviously Bootsy fucking Collins from the future who shows up playing the fucking guitar. And you're you're bringing in the old and the new, and you're you know, he's mixing, he's mixing generations together. It's fucking beautiful. I thought it was just gr I thought it was just some of the most brilliant shit I've seen in in a quite a while. That was one of the best parts of the movie. Super creative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:39

Somebody's microdosing, because I've been there.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:45

You know, and when is Haley Steinfeld, the the Marvel hero, going to be able to say such filthy dialogue? I'm I'm telling you, I she took the part for that reason alone. Like at one point, she's somebody asks her if she's with the twins, and she says, Boy, if you don't get the fuck out of my face. And I started laughing so hard. It's just like this fucking movie's so much fun and is so creative that I, you know, I forgive a lot of its transgressions because it's just it's doing so much great shit. Um, like for instance, The Vampire finds a home in a day, makes two new thralls, and they're also musicians and they have banjos and all that shit. I I don't care. You know, I don't care. I I'm with the movie the entire way. You know, Delroy Lindo is such a joy to watch this thing. It's not even funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:30

Yeah. Yeah. When he showed up, dear diary pay attention.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:34

Got another one here. Dear Diary. Me and my brother have come back to Chicago and formed our own entourage. So far we've been riding around in a car together, but soon we're gonna open our own juke joint. Anyways, gotta go now. I need to convince my voodoo woman to cook catfish for a hundred people and dodge the sexual anger of a forbidden hot white lady. Talk soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

But I realized, and maybe we'll discover this as we go through more of these newer movies, that I have been aged out. There's things that I'm gonna appreciate, but I have to tell myself, well, this movie wasn't made for me. This was made for the youngins, and they're loving it, and that's awesome. And it is good that we can have these things that used to be considered juvenile, crass, gross, or unnecessary be in Oscar movies now because somewhere Wes Craven is smiling, and everybody else who used to get their movies chopped up. And it's not a video podcast. Sometimes I wish it was because you guys miss out on some of our reactions and stuff. But I did enjoy the movie overall. But for me, it's like some of these other movies that uh that are really good movies, and I appreciate them, but I watched them once and I think I'm good because it's such an emotional toll, like up or a life is beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:54

Well, I can't get to like I can't get to the first 10 minutes up where I'm saying, god damn it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:00

Brilliant motherfuckers. I yeah, I'm I you know and people love Titanic and they watch that a bunch too, and that was I can't I'm never gonna say that's a bad movie, but it's not necessarily a movie that I'm watching all the time. I think my biggest thing here is remember, I'm I'm the heretic. I'm the guy that doesn't like Sean of the Dead. I know, it's crazy. But for me, the tonal mixture of that one is a little too off, and I get a little bit of that of this one here, but I do like this one more than that, you know. But like I said, I had this weird love, don't love relationship with this movie. I can't stop thinking about it. Maybe over time I will watch it again and something else will snap. But like I said, I feel like it's a movie about grief, and that's important, but that's not something that I need to look at all the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:54

I don't I don't necessarily think it's about grief. I think it's I mean, I think that's mixed in, but I think it's about longevity, and I think it's about kind of like the magic and longevity of life and your you what you're what you're doing with your life, what you're moving forward with, what you came, you know, all this great things that he that he ties together by you know that Preacher Boy scene alone where he's just showing the span of a life, you know, you end up at the end with that, you know, where he's on stage uh at the very end there, and you're like, Jesus Christ, it's it's got a kind of a green mile feel to it in that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:30

You know, I thought the green mile as well, and I felt like if they had leaned more into the realism, it would have gone all the way and surpassed that even for me personally, past the green mile. But it's interesting that you bring that up too, because I had those same kind of thoughts. It is kind of Stephen King-ish in a way, right? We're introducing everybody, and then they're all together, and now they gotta fucking fight together to beat the evil, but there's all this intricate backstory, and everybody's past are interwoven, and there's all this magic and spiritual and yeah, there's some Stephen King influence definitely in there. And the younger generation rediscovered him when they remade it. So they the kids love Stephen King.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:19

The um the stomping has strange echoes, centering you mentioned Sean of the Dead. The stomping in that movie, there's a scene with some stomping and it that it it is they're beating somebody and it has strange echoes of that Sean of the Dead pool cue scene.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

This is a dramatic Sean of the Dead, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:37

And I like I like that moment where she asks Cornbread if he can if she can come into the juke joint. That's fun. Yeah. Telling us that she's a vampire, telling the audience, hey, she's a vampire. They don't know it, but they're we're immediately like, why the fuck, bitch? You you just come in. That's the tenth. And she's like, Well, can I? Yeah. Uh, I like that stuff. That's a lot of fun. Um I knew I figured you'd have trouble with the whole, and I sure did with the whole drooling in each other's mouth shit. That was fucking disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:04

Um that was a little out there, but she's like, Y'all are fucking gross.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:08

Pale moon, my ass, man. No, that's disgusting. Um, and of course, you knew the you knew the twins weren't gonna last. You know, this that's just how that you know one of the twins is gonna turn into a vampire. It has to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

Kill the other one.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:20

You know, of course not. It has to happen. You know, that's just that's these are these are some of the tropes that you deal with when you have movies like this. You have to deal with these things.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

What would that movie be without that?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:32

That doesn't hold to me, that doesn't hold it back. To me, that's just like acknowledging, like otherwise, you just you hand wave it, which is fucking to me ten times worse. I would much rather you acknowledge it and deal with it than just fucking hand wave. Well, he we just locked him up, he's in the closet and he'll be fine. Or, or you know, we put some silver in there and he'll you know, he'll be whatever. And you just kind of hand wave at it, and then suddenly it's just my you know, one brother. I liked the whole him having to deal with it and him turning I you know, I I enjoyed that. I thought that was really good. Um I kept wondering what's next. Like, there's 50 minutes to go. I know they're gonna fight vampires, but for how long? Yeah, you're like you know, what else does he have? What else does he have planned?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:11

We gotta get rid of the true monsters now.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:14

Man, fuck you, cornbread, you know. Um and then now it's a horror movie, right? Now it's rush hour, dust till dawn. That you know, and I and that's where I'm when I'm really enjoying it because it suddenly turned into this wild riot of a film, and the religious trope and the posturing at the of the end is a little boring. Um and the dramatic kind of fire inferno crescendo of music all at the end is kind of silly, but for the most part, it's just it was such a fucking ride, right? Like you just don't see a lot of films like this. It's unique, you don't you don't see them this creative, you don't see them this imaginative, the dialogue was fucking great. There's just good dialogue. All it's and having to watch running time after this, it was like it was fuck me, dude. It made me hate running time 10 times more because I'd watch something of such quality. I think you're right. If we had maybe paired running time with some other shit ass movie that was lower on that level, then maybe I'd have possibly had some sort of better, you know, take of it. But I'm watching Centers, which is just amazingly well made, and then I'm watching Runtime, which just seems like some dude's like, I got a camera and some footage of Bruce Campbell, I'm gonna make a movie. It's like okay, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:33

But it's still pretentious week here on Talking Pondo, because we have the person gonna make the movie real quick with Bruce Campbell, and we have the other person who can't decide on an aspect ratio. So it's kind of funny how we have that little bit of posturing and similarity.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:48

I honestly I honestly couldn't tell you which one's more pretentious. I really couldn't in that in that regard. I couldn't, I really couldn't. I think fuck. I I'm not sure. I'm honestly not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:03

Um smoking on film will always be cool. I don't give a shit how far into the future we get.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:08

Smoke and stack.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:09

Um the to me, the gotta kill the to me, the gotta kill the clan stuff was a little I don't know. Well the movie was too long. It was too long, and I think that that was a uh an ending subplot of the third act that you maybe could have cut out. I one of my friends was like, man, I really enjoyed it when they shot the clan members. I'm like, I get it, but couldn't we have done it earlier into the movie and maybe dealt with it?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:31

I don't think you know, before No, I don't think so, because to me it ties into what I think the allegory was is that's if you look at this as a story that really happened, well, there was no vampires, they opened up a jute joint and then the clan showed up and shot a bunch of them because that's what was gonna happen. Right? But there happened to be vampires, so that put a a fucking change of situation. So the guy knew that they were coming, so that's why he went back and was like, I'm gonna kill these motherfuckers because they were gonna come and kill us, which leads to my survivor analogy at the end. It's just subtext that I mean it's in maybe it's an intentional fallacy, but it it moved me a lot when I thought all that. And that's why I was like, I see why that's there, because my interpretation was because it's a survivor thing. And if they had killed them before the vampires, I don't know if that matches up. But I wouldn't have minded the Choctaw showing up and helping at the end, but it wasn't their battle to fight, of course. But it did remind me of Inglorious Bastards a little bit, you know, where you're shooting Hitler at the end of the movie, you know. A little bit of, you know, using the film to rewrite some stuff to alternate history, rights and wrongs type thing. It's like sweet back, right? It reminded me of that a little bit, like the oh yeah, and now we're back into 70s exploitation era. But the movie is a little too long, though. Boy, am I random today?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:04

I think it's um probably maybe 10 minutes, 15 minutes too long.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:12

Um a little top heavy, but they're trying to do that the stand type thing where I wouldn't want to lose anybody's backstory and stuff, right? So if you had to chop, maybe maybe clean that ending up a little bit, make it a little snappier, a little pepper. Yeah, there is a little pacing thing. You're right about the pacing of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:33

I think it's paced okay. I just think that there's I think there's a little fat. There's a little fat on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:39

You could make it a little leaner, little Lord of the Rings, especially towards the end.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:42

I I don't I don't know that you needed to do the whole clan coming back thing. I think you maybe could have handled that a little bit differently and sped sped the ending up. Again, you're it it got it wasn't as egregious as farewell to the king, but there was a kind of a oh here's a here's a good point to end the movie. Oh, wait, the clan. Here we go again. Right, type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:01

And then kind of why it's always, right? Because he gets to see his wife momentarily. I'm like, oh, Richard Trick is right around the corner. There's a whole thing with that, too, right? Because Lance Henrickson and Bill Paxton are hiding around the corner, too. This doesn't it seriously, doesn't this kind of feel like it could be the near dark universe a little bit? Because I they were the the type of vampires a little bit. They were because they were talking about having been around and they burnt Chicago down even.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:31

Doesn't no.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:32

Well, that was my I mean obviously they're a little bit more packed creatures here with the it feels more yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:41

It feels more like it comes from the world of crossroads or the color purple, and and and that there's some sort of mix over with From Dust Till Dawn, right? Where it's this sort of you know, poor rural south type thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:59

Um and did you ever see a movie called Death by Temptation? Yes, because that feels like that was in there too a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:08

I think it's got a little bit of Oh Brother War art down in there, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:11

Oh, it's oh brother war art thou horror version. You could watch these two in a row. Now that's that's a grind house double feature right there. And I want to watch them on beat up prints too, that way, with fake trailers. But like I was saying, or was I saying, I don't know. Movies are a series of moments that you take away, right? Didn't Scorsese say something like that? That's the what you remember mostly about movies. And I feel like a lot of the older movies, maybe I'm just an old motherfucker, who knows at this point, but I feel like a lot of the older movies, they're full of moments because the craft, they were like made to last. And a lot of the newer movies, not saying centers is one of them, because I think centers in five, ten years is probably gonna grow in popularity. I think I think it's gonna become a class, even more of a classic than it already is. But some of the other more recent movies, feels like after five or ten years, maybe you develop some potholes in them, kind of like the whole Oscar thing I was saying in the beginning. So it seems like in the modern movie, you get maybe 15 minutes of great minutes of a movie of greatness, and then you have to sit through the rest of it a lot of the time. But those older movies like Last Detail or something like that, where it's like the whole fucking movie's brilliant. But you know, maybe there are movies from that are recent that the whole goddamn movie's brilliant. I'm sure we watched some of them, and I'm not thinking of it. So who knows? Maybe I'm not sure. I've seen them.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:41

We just haven't we we just haven't had them on this podcast, but they're out there. I think this is a I think this is a perfect example of what you're talking about. You know, this movie has uh it moves, it begins and it and it continues and it never stops and it drags the viewer along with you, and and at no time, you know, really do you stop to think, well, I should check my watch, or how long is this gonna fucking move? Only at the very, very end where you kind of expect the ending and it doesn't happen and it kind of revs back up for the for the clan thing. Do you go, oh okay. But you know, to me, this is uh you know, top-notch filmmaking. This is I I was never really impressed with Creed or Black Panther was okay, but there were better Marvel movies to me. And so I I and I hadn't seen um the San Francisco, the the one he did the uh I think that's him, Clansman in San Francisco. Um, I hadn't seen that one. So I I wasn't super familiar with any of his more recent work, but this was this was right up there with I think probably easily needs to be considered as one of the best films of 2025, and it's gonna be probably considered one of the better films of the 21st century for a while.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:47

I uh had seen Black Panther and I never understood why everybody was so crazy about it. I thought it was just okay. And this one I feel like because directors like to do a lot of the same themes, and I thought for me, I it made me understand that movie more. I was like, I see what you were trying to go for in that one, and I feel like you got more of it across in this one to where it really moved me at the end of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:12

So he I mean, he's definitely celebrating blackness, right? Like he's and I I feel like this movie definitely does that. Like, as much as it is about, you know, two guys who are um and it's also about just let people live. You know, criminals, yeah. But but as much as it's about two people who are criminals, it's got a lot, it celebrates a lot of the black south and the the the history and the heritage of of that region and talks talks a lot about it and and um has a lot of that history embedded in it, which you know that's cool. I I I thought it was really, really great. I really, really enjoyed this movie. I watched it a lot, uh half of it with my mouth kind of just hanging wide open because it was like, oh fuck, really? This is cool. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:52

And there are points where it does come off a little corny, but you know, it's it also very much finds itself and is very cool in spots where you're just like, oh, it's fucking I didn't like it the first time I watched it the first 45 minutes, and then I the next day I started it over and it felt like a different movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:11

Well, I'm I'm kind of excited to re-watch it a second or third time because I'm I'm I'm really I'm wondering if it's gonna be one of those type of movies where the the you know if you watch it two years from now you get a different thing from it, and three years now you're getting a different thing from it because it sure feels like it's layered and it's got enough thematically and and with layering going on that you're gonna probably pull different things from it as you watch it.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:33

And as time passes and context falls away from it, I think it'll grow even more. Because people are gonna look at it now as a as a reflection of the times we're in directly.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:45

But in the future it's gonna that's why I compare it to Barbie a lot in that respect, where it's like it's gonna keep growing in a different way as the context from the time it was made in seeps away. At the same time, they were both designed to appeal to everybody because it's a I could see Sinners probably doing that a lot more than Barbie does.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:06

I think I think time's um I'm I'm time's gonna tell on Barbie. I'm not convinced on that one, but I I think you're right with Sinners. I think Sinners, especially the more you get away from the political implications of the film and the social implications of the film, and it's people 50 to 60 to 70 years, and it's just a movie about you know these cool, this cool juke joint where all this crazy muse is going on and these fucking vampire shots. It'll be dope, it'll be really, really cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:34

But I can understand much like Barbie, I can understand why people would hate it, and I understand why people would love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:41

Same.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:42

Because it depends on what you like in the movie and what it does for you, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:46

This is probably gonna test your tolerance level, I think, in certain respects. Like the fact that it's a musical is probably gonna push some people away. The fat you know, the there's just things in it. Yeah, it's there's things in it I think that may kind of push people away. It's like, oh, that's not really my taste, that's not really my kind of film, but um, yeah, I think it's fucking fantastic. Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:11

Yeah, I'm I'm right in the middle. Our discussion has made me realize that I do appreciate it more, so my rating has gone up. Uh, I'm giving it three and a half.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:23

Yeah, I'm giving it four.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:25

I was going considerably lower, but the more I thought about it, and the strong parts were so strong that they overweighed some of the issues that I had with it more. But like I said, it for me, my readoff of it, much like Up or George Romero's movie Martin, hey, that's about vampires as well now that I think about it. I feel like the movie is just about grief. And so it's heavy watch for me. So it's not something I'm gonna be putting on all the time unless I need like a good cry or something, because it's a good thing, but it's it's like Titanic, you know. I'm not I appreciate it, but I I'm not personally revisiting it, but I would never tear it down.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:12

I'm so conflicted. I think that there's some I think there's some melancholy in it for sure, but I think it's a movie about life.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:19

And I think it's a movie about reminded me of that movie too, life, the Eddie Murphy.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:23

Uh the it's the the you know, the fragility, the experience, the moments, the things that you know these guys come from Chicago, they they rip off a bunch of mobsters, they come to Chicago, they start over, they create this thing all night, and suddenly this shit happens and it's wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:38

Shit went down, but remember before the shit went down, thing was actually going good. And they're flashing back to the good times, you know, when we were just thieves running around, haha, you know, I'm being cynical, but you know, they they and that was what made me go, oh, the movie's not about vampires, the movie was about life. The movie was about how things went good before things went to shit for us, you know, and you keep going no matter what it throws at you. Like the vampires are just the things, the obstacles we have to deal with in life, and maybe they were the friends we made along the way. Does that fit into? But yeah, watch it, people. Watch it.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:16

I thought it was a pretty, I just think it's a pretty cool vampire movie. Um, yeah, I definitely recommend the watch on it. Um, I will not I'm not surprised to see this thing win some Oscars.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:27

We'll see.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:27

We'll see what it does. I'm not surprised at all. See it, I will not be surprised at all to see it do that. Uh I think it's gonna sweep, I I think it's definitely gonna sweep the musical category for sure. Yeah, it's I think it's gonna sweep the I think it's gonna sweep sound and sound design categories for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:44

How much of the credits did you read? I know there's a lot of in credits, but I read a lot of the musicians. Lars Ulrich is one of the musicians.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:53

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:54

And we know Jerry Cantrello did a song with the score composer. And I had to listen to that after the movie, and I'm like, oh, it's that. Like they took like an instrumental version of it and put it in the movie, right? It was like the creepy, they're outside the juke joint music. Right. It's so varied. Yeah, it's a we have it at work on a double vinyl record, you know, the soundtrack.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:19

But yeah. It's it's an X. I mean, I I get it. I I I get it. It's I mean, and the Oscar nom the nominations are s are insane. It's um best casting, best achievement in cinematography, best achievement in makeup and hairstyling, best achievement in music written for a motion picture, best achievement in music written for a motion pisser, again. Uh so I think he's got is it so best song and both composer, best composer, okay, best sound, best achievement in visual effects, best motion picture, best achievement in directing, best performance by an actor in a leading role, which is Michael B. Jordan. Uh, supporting role, Delroy Lindo, supporting role for actress, uh Woon Mi Mosaku. She was awesome. Um, original screenplay, Ryan Kugler, best achievement in production design, Hannah Beechler, costume design, Ruth Carter, film editing, Michael B. Schauber. This thing's walking away with at least four or five Oscars easily.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:13

I just never thought I'd see a best Oscar nominee that clearly has Evil Dead influence in it, but I should be happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:20

I mean, we should be we should be fucking excited about that shit, right? I mean, these are the films that these are the films that we all thought were awesome that you know people push to the side, and now it's nice to see our things. It's not like Raimi's birding, but you know taking uh, you know, well, it's just nice to see the things that we love taking fucking center stage for once.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:36

Well, things that were inspired by the things we love. I want my actual creators to be recognized. They are. They are. You know what's interesting about this is I mean, Jesus fucking Christ.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:47

George Romero, Sam Ra Sam Raimi, fucking Wes Craven, those guys all got recognized even more than they were.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:52

They only ever got horror awards. They never got Oscars.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:56

They mostly only ever made horror fucking well, that's not true. Sam Raimi made spot of the Spider-Man films and won a bunch of awards for true.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:04

But what what I'm getting to is Cinners breaks the mold once again. It's Oscar nominated and Fangoria Chainsaw Award nominated. Weird, huh? Isn't that strange how things have changed?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:18

So well, it's just I think it's I just think it's great. I I I love the fact that that, you know, first off Jack Valenti. It wasn't it wasn't, I think it's probably six or seven years ago, what, eight years ago, that um Get Out wins best screenplay for a horror, which is fucking that shit's not happened for since, you know. Um I mean, the Oscars that were handed up to get out were they hadn't they hadn't even done that since fucking what's the The Exorcist.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:46

Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:47

And now so here we are with another horror movie that's it's fucking horror, and it's got how many goddamn Academy Award nominations? It's great. Like finally, some recognition for the shit that we love and and grew up loving and and enjoy, right? And who of course it's never gonna be Friday the 13th because that shit was 30 years ago, but it's great that the stuff that we're based on is fucking getting recognized.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:10

You know, like people like Romero and stuff, Dawn of the Dead, if that came out now, that would be an Oscar-nominated movie. But back then, yeah, it had that had to crawl so this stuff could walk. So if it wins, I hope they, you know, say, you know, thank you to the people that inspired me, you know. That's all. But do you do you think that it does have a similarity to get out in so much as the monster wants to become you and assimilate you and take over your personality and take your talents and stuff? I thought that was kind of like there's a theme of the body snatcher type I'm gonna I'm gonna assimilate you type thing. I'm like, oh, that's kind of creepy how that's similar in those vibes.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:00

Um, I mean vampires are much more um, at least as far as I understand, in in representation in like literature and things like that, they're usually um sexuality and power dynamics and things like that, right? It's it's a lot of that forbidden desire giving, you know, the society keeping you back from your from your sexual or your physical desires or your things of that nature, right? And so and the of course the allure of immortality and you know you know being you know, being immortal and and you can't die and you can live outside of society and all that type of shit. So I mean, I think sinners smartly avoids a lot of that and just says, look, they're just vamp, they're vampires. Here's the cool thing about them is that they're fucking really into music. Not only can they play it, not only can they play it, they're drawn to it like a moth to flame. You know what I mean? It's like he says to Preacher Boy, Oh, that was your voice I heard in there. You know, you have to join us. I need your song, I need you, yeah, I need your your voice.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:07

I want that ability to be a photographer like you.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:11

Yeah, and you go, This isn't a race thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:13

He wants to take my essence.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:16

Yeah, yeah. He wants what's you, yeah, very much so. Um, but yeah, four stars. Um okay. Well, what do you uh what do you got for me next week?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:26

Uh next week, uh oh yeah, we we're entering in some guests, but the next time we do a solo episode, hey guys, there might be more vampires on some of those guests, so stay tuned. But uh the next uh episode for us. Okay, so no more running times. Not saying there isn't gonna be movies that are old, but I'm gonna try to focus on our solo episodes being movies primarily from the last five years that I know that I haven't seen at least, and maybe you haven't seen. Right. Not always, but so what's next?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:57

Not always, but for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:58

Uh next time you're watching uh more Oscar winner. Uh Tucson Base Screenwriter Tucson Bay Screenwriter won for this one. I haven't seen it. American fiction. Oh, okay. Watching that one next time. I thought let's go to the never seen.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:19

I think I I think I think so. Yeah, that's the one with Jeffrey, what's his name?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:23

I believe so, yeah. Wright. Jeffrey Wright, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:27

I saw it a few years ago. Um, okay, cool. Well, that's that sounds great. You are gonna watch weapons.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:32

Catching up on that. Cord Jefferson. I live in Tucson and he's Tucson, and he won best screenplay. So, hey guys, pay attention out there. Tucson's got some filmmakers here. So, what are you giving me for the next solo episode whenever that happens? And it won't be the 200th movie, that'll be the one after, but uh I I said it, it was weapons. Weapons, oh, I didn't even hear you. Oh, so we're just going right to weapons. Okay. Yep. I have a feeling I'm probably gonna like sinners more, but I really don't know. We'll find out. Watch like oh, I loved this fucking movie. Even the polarizing ending. You know, people talked about the ending of sinners being what fucked it up for them too. So people say the ending of weapons fucks it up. I don't know. All I know is about some kids in a house or something, right? People under the stairs, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:29

All I know is it's supposed to be about disappearing kids. Yeah. Milk carton. Yep. Uh, and it's supposed to be uh Amy Madigan's supposed supposed to be one of her um one of her uh best performances that she's given in her career.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:44

And I like Amy Madigan. I should have given you Field of Dreams. Um maybe later. Maybe that's that's a dynamic right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:54

Um eventually if we do Streets of Fire, she's in that too.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:58

So coming up hopefully this season.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:02

She never knows. Um all right, so weapons and what is it? Weapons?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:06

Weapons in American fiction. We're doing new shit because we're trying to be trendy and get those numbers up. No, we're we're we're we're filling in some gaps. We're using the podcast to help us watch some movies we haven't gotten around to finally, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:23

Well, I mean, that's kind of the point. One of many give each other movies we had to see and talk about them, so it's nice to see we're sticking to it, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:31

Well, you know. Um also going back to film school as well and learning each other's aesthetics.

unknown 1:46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:37

See, if I hadn't watched Vision Quest, right? I mean, shit. I'm glad I watched that.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:45

I love that movie. Um we talked about that, how the I told you I started reading that book, and it's it's like we talked about, and we'll have to get into that at some point about how in the 80s they would buy a book property and then take the elements of the book, but then change it to make it more Hollywood storytelling or cinematic, you know what I mean? And so you get like in Vision Quest, you get Carla showing up, right? But in the book, she's they're already together. Now, this now that's true that she showed up and bought a shitty car and the car busted out and he punched the dude out, and that's how that happened, but it's told completely different, right? Um anyway. So, yeah, cool. All right, so weapons and uh American fiction. All right, you want to get out of here on a quote?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:34

Uh sure.

unknown 1:47:36

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:37

Okay. Uh so this is gonna be crude, but it needs to happen because it's a joke. Hmm's gonna eat that. Wait a minute, that wasn't this movie, but it could have been. See, Party Animal could have paired perfectly with Sinners.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:58

They gave me the willies. Well, crackers and night will do that to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:03

How dog? How dog.